If you want to read my academic work, I speak of in this video, about whales and fish in Scandinavia, you can read it here : www.patreon.com/posts/whale-in-old-and-32171412 "The Whale in Old Norse Religion and Scandinavian Medieval Literature", unlock it for $3 and you will also have access to 100+ papers, essays and academic works, plus 200+ posts including behind the scenes. Cheers! Have a great day!
@Alien Alien he never said he was or he wasn't. Arith expressed that he isn't concerned in showing his spiritual/religious beliefs but more concerned in trying to be neutral as much as possible so that his own perceptions won't influence the historical truth
Yes, I remember well that as a good teacher, Mr. Härguer lets his listeners form their opinions, and that is Freedom of Speech. As intelligent beings, we must be open to knowledge, not only the one with whom we identify, but also, to the contrary, this is the challenge that Häguer leaves us. Every day we learn, sometimes improving, sometimes to accept change and rebuild our point of view!
@Alien Alien First of all, he is clearly pagan but being a pagan and speaking about Scandinavian stuff doesn't make hin Asatru. In fact, you haven't been paying attention at all because in several videos he said he isn't Asatruar at all. Secondly, you seem to make a confusion between the study of comparative mythologies and with universalism. The study of comparative mythologies is essential to understand religions of the past in the academic field. He is presenting information on an academic perspective, not exposing his own spiritual beliefs. And you speak as if universalism was bad, you are the typical asatruar who lingers in the same bs that was being invented in the 19th century. Have a good day.
@Alien Alien why would Asatru be genetically based? Its like say a person who isn't jew cannot understand kabbalah, yet many study and understand. you know your stance is called spiritual materialism and is the lowest manner of interpretation. its usually used by those who need to feel special, so they pick fights and make silly claims to validate there lack of understanding by trampling others. maintaining a level of ignorance to preserve self identity, or just stupidity. genetics is really complex, how your understanding of epi-genetics or do you understand the mechanics in which enzymes cut and paste protein sequences, how that changes in relation to the location of the body, what about mitochondrialdna, and how that effects development? which gene codes for asatru,? can it mutate or be methylated , if so, do you suddenly forget your spiritual understanding, is that the reason why the Christians changed the mythology, it was a genetic mutation, cause no where is there evidence for this? to say its genetically based shows you are either just making your self feel better, or just used concepts you think people are afriad to challenge you on. I think you in no position to start judging argument forms, when your base claims are foolish on the face of it. o and use your intuition more, and listen more and you can see the angle the speaker is coming from, its not hard young-ling
Mr. Härger, if you don't mind me asking, what sources did you get this information from? I would like to do further research into this topic. Thank you in advance.
The Indo-European archetype of the masculine thunderer/smiter slaying a serpent monster is found in many different places at many different times (Indra, Apollo, Jupiter, Perun, etc) . I don't disagree that the serpent was probably a prehistoric fertility symbol supplanted by new gods of a more warlike, masculine culture, but I think it's even older than Christianity.
I used to live near a 'sleeping dragon' called Arthur's seat in Edinburgh. I could see the sleeping dragon from my window. I studied this dragon which I initially viewed as an obstacle in my path. Then one day the dragon awoke in me. I went on to study a bit of dragon mythology and came to the understanding that in the westernized 'Christian' world, the dragon was demonized and it was something within the human psyche that had to be slayed or destroyed or something we needed to rise above in order to reach heaven. I contrasted these ideas with the Chinese view of the dragon who revere both serpents and dragons. It was then I understood that christianity was rejecting the aspects of ourselves that are linked to what they viewed as our lower drives, ie. our basic instincts which we call upon to survive, reproduce and flourish. The Chinese view dragons as powerful cosmic forces that enhance our survival instincts on earth and this enhances our understanding of nature and the cosmos. The dragon is a living entity/force to be celebrated. It appears our ancient 'Norse' ancestors had similar and different ideas to the Chinese. Many ancient belief systems viewed the serpents as symbols of life, transformation and rebirth. I believe the dragon is a cosmic force and the earth is a cosmic entity. So what you say makes sense. Plus, DNA resembles two serpents similar to the caduceus which is interesting considering it is a symbol used in modern medicine. The serpent like spirals that can be found on pagan stones resembles the life force of the universe ie. milky way as well as the life force on earth. Thank you, Arith, for sharing your ideas with us.
I am no Tolkien expert but there is a historical king of Alfheim in Bohuslän in Norway/Sweden whose name was Gandalf, and regarding his clan there are myths about a certain Alf (a name in the royal family of Alfs) becoming Alf den ljuse - Alf the fair, a benevolent creature of light. I would guess that Tolkien knew about this myth, but it is a very obscure one.
How do you explain all of the countless dragonslayer/serpent slayer myths found in most of the Indo-European descendant cultures and religions? In most of them, the god or hero slays the dragon/serpent and then uses the body in some way to bring about life. I respect your perspective, but it seems more likely to me that this is a very old Indo-European root myth, rather than Christian influence. Yes, as you say, the serpent is related to the energy of the earth and to swirling, sinuous vitality. And it is this vitality that, much like with Yimir, is distributed through dismemberment after the slaying of the serpent. Refer to the myth of Indra and Vritra. In it, most interestingly, when Indra slays the three-headed dragon he does so to release all the waters of the world that the dragon had claimed. Releasing of the waters can also be analogous to the blood of the serpent, which we see as being powerful and full of vitality. Note, also, that Jormungandr is said to hold or retain waters, as you yourself touched on. The myth of Indra and Vritra is only one of the many serpent slayer myths that descend from the original Indo-European culture. It is for this reason that I believe that this is an instance of PAGANISM influencing CHRISTIANITY, instead of the other way around.
Even older than indo-european is the Assyrian/Akkadian story of Ninurta/Marduk fighting a Serpent/Dragon. Also the very indo-european hittite story of Teshub slaying the serpent Illuyanka. I think Arith's theory needs some revision..
this explanation of the Christian imposition of a negative view of the dragon fits well for the Nordic context, but how do you explain the similar story of Indra killing the water serpent Vitra, found in the Rg Veda (dated to approximately 1, 500 BCE)?
I would say Indra killing Vitra, along with Zeus killing Typhon, indeed was them doing so, and that Vitra, Typhon, Kingu, and Leviathan should be thought of as different than jormangandr
It's 5 in the morning for me. Even though I want to watch this video so baddly. And hour long omg that's awesome but it's way to late/early to do so. So it is saved for when I awaken. I can't wait to listen.
Things have been so corrupted. We have been taught to stamp on our own deity. But with such enlightened information, hopefully not for always. Thank you for this knowledge.
Yes. Christianity has done alot of damage to our cultures. Whenever I read about Zeus affrairs with other creatures in this world, I see nothing more than christianity twisting Zeus stories
You are an inspiration to me. I've been searching my Scandinavian "danish/german" norse pagen heritage. Out of all I've watched you give the best description. Thank you for all you do
Most what they learn us in university about slavic culture is a lie and once i wrote them an essay about the clothes that was worn and made that time, that the red suffisticated line was a protection and meant snake protector, they put 0 mark to me for it and lauhted critisizing me without giving their reasons why i was wrong. Hate them. We are given the write to tell our opinion, but once we say they dislike it and disallow to express your studies
Aboriginal Australian people have a lot of stories about great serpents.Usually called rainbow serpents.I have never thought of Jorganmand as evil , just a force of nature,both creation and destruction.
Im at the part about Niðhogg in the video, and I was wondering if I may propose a thought on it.. you mentioned your doubt that the name was carried over accurately, but what if his name was more so a play on words.. maybe not so much about stripping their honor, but one who strips their human form in order to move on anew
This some of the best info I've ever heard. Armed with this info I can now better understand all other mythologies as well. And root out the Christian B.S. that has damaged my psyche. Thank you sir!!!
I thank you dearly for your sharing of this beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
The chinook of the pacific northwest had Tattoosh for the thunder god. They also adorned their tepees, canoes, and jewelry of him. The amount of overlapping through all the pantheons is yuuuugggeeeee.
If the idea of fighting serpents is Christian, how come you find the archetype of it in indo-European religion(I.e long before Christianity was thing)? You even see it with local Native American tribes here in NY! They would invoke their thunder god to protect them against the sea serpent of Lake Ontario.
Watch this video here, if you can: ua-cam.com/video/afINJhf4yN8/v-deo.html&t which I have also suggested on this video. It's clear that the Serpent Cult is pre/pan-indo-european and the earth-based religions and expression of faith, before indo-european religious beliefs based on sky-deities. You know which other religions are based on sky-deities? Abrahamic ones, Christianity for instance - an entire cult based on a sky deity. It is the exact same religious motif of the sky deity fighting the serpent of the ancient pagans. Christianity not only is based on Judaism, but it is also greatly based on classical mythos, and it was a Roman creation to control the Roman province of Judea, so naturally it has the same religious bases of pagan cultures based on indo-european religious motifs. The serpent cult is indeed pan-indo-european, without a doubt, but this specific account in this video was greatly fomented by Christianity, which is based (mostly) on Roman religious concepts which in turn are based on indo-European religious motifs. This all goes down to Indo-European sky-deities " VS " primordial earth-cults/worship. Even the god within Abrahamic religious beliefs was once a Storm god very similar to the many storm/weather gods of the Indo-Europeans. Eastern Religious belifs " VS " the Western earth-cults/worships. The Serpent Cult is actually a western european belief which spread from the Iberian Peninsula (20.000 years ago) into the rest of Europe and subsequently into the rest of the world.
@@ArithHärger Also, the idea that Europeans spread serpent myths to the rest of the world is toxically racist. Serpent myths of Africa and Australia are some of the oldest in the world.
I don't mean to be rude, but could you read some of my replies in similar questions in this video? A bit tired today of repeating myself, that's all. In this video I'm specifically focusing on a scandinavian religious context fomented by Christian, but not entirely exclusively a Christian formulation, but just fomented by Christians in medieval scandinavia. It's actually a indo-European religious motif and the clash of that sort of religious mindset and the belief in sky deities when in contact with the pan-indo-european earth-cults/worship. Please, read my other replies. Thank you.
Arith Härger thank you for answering! At the moment I wrote there wasn’t much of a comments. I’ve already read your message, thank you very much for your work!
Judging buy the thing that says how long the videos are I think this is your longest video I reckon you should try to beat it's in length next time just because we could always use more of your content
I thought the Völuspá and Havamal where far older and had many creditable references? Seems like then if you are correct Arth then all the stories in the Edda are useless.
Chris Price They were created to teach a culture’s form of poetry that was about to be lost forever. They were not created to be religious texts. They’re useful. Just not in the way our abrahamic centered culture imagines them.
Snorri Sturlson's versions of the Eddas are some of the most popular and referenced. It's important to remember, that Sturlson was not a member of this spirituality and was in fact Christian. Back then the church employed hundreds of monks and priests to translate (literally and metaphorically) pagan texts and works of other religions into whatever language the church would be using in the time.
Great video! I agree Arith, it is fishy that in such a short time line of 200 years perhaps less the whole art and story line appears perverted and sadly we only have lots of the evidence in the lands already of converted once pagan or still partial pagan/Christian mix. Goes to show you what wealth, land, a new wife and 2-4 generations of family raised in foreign places can do to ones roots and if we did not have the not so much older evidence we would not even see the change happen. Makes me think of the far far distant past and beliefs, Gods, Goddesses perhaps even whole religious systems being common place for 1000s of years to be erased as fast as the way's of the old land vs that of those living in it for such a short time being like sun in moon in their story line, and art. Without stone to carve it on, it would be dust and not archaeological evidence of any kind.
I don't really believe the whole good versus evil thing in Norse myth. It's seems to be more neutral versus neutral. No black versus white. Everything is just grey. Makes it way more interesting than the stories where you have a clear good and clear evil
I feel like you focus A LOT on the ways Christianity messed with the Norse legends. You really don’t have to do that in every video. I’m not trying to be overly negative, but I feel like these videos would be shorter and more engaging if you just focused on the myths as they were originally written, without explaining all the changes Christians tried to make. However, the ways in which Christianity has messed with Norse myth could be a great subject for one big video. That way you can get it all out of the way, and focus on the core mythology. Making a single video about the Christian influences over Norse religion would ALSO give you a singular place to refer people to if they’re at all curious about that information. But dude, we don’t look you up so you’ll explain how the Christians made a mess of peganism. We come to you to find out the finer details of the real Norse legends, so just do that. I hope this helped.
The fact is that we don't actually know how much Christianity may have impacted the Norse myths as they were passed down to us, because there is no pre-Christian version to compare them to. What we *can* say with certainty is that there are many, many legends of deities and heroes slaying serpents and dragons from pre-Christian cultures all over the world, and the Norse legends of dragon-slaying closely resemble those from other Indo-European cultures.
I understand that Thor doesn't kill Jormungandr. How then does Thor die during Ragnarök? I sometimes interpreted it as Thor fighting against fate. Or struggling rather.
I know I'm late to the party but What if Thor fishing jormungandr is him wanting / trying to 'wake' or connect to the earths life force... Maybe he will have to kill his mother so in the mutual destruction of ... everything, everything begins again from the new egg. Random associations - I just watched the serpent & the egg Video again 🍃 Or Thor is us exploiting life force because we can and if we keep doing that it will fight us and if the fight kills them both, they die. We die. Whatever... Maybe they painted that motif as a warning that could be passed through Christianity :D
@@handalf9502 I've got a much easier explanation. Jormungandr is the child of Loki. It's fairly reasonable that Loki may corrupt Jormungandr and his purpose during ragnarok. His mother is a sort of god of the earth, but the actual earch was made from the body of Ymir.
@@ジョジョさま Maybe jormungandr ist jord after a night of angry drinking with Loki! I was thinking of jord as the creative force of life, maybe like sophia not the physical structure of the earth. However, don't take me too serious :)
I thank you dearly for your sharimg ofcthis beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
I interpret Thor fighting the snake in a pagan way for me. To fight the snake for me is a symbol for the attempt to eliminate dangerous aspects of nature (especially in agriculture with Thor as its protector). We as humans should not try to dominate or destroy the earth and its nature when even the gods in a good will are not capable to do this. Donar is not capable to kill this danger (when he goes out fishing) but only to change it a little bit in the direction he wants to (the lifting of the cat in Utgardlokis hall). It only seems to be successful while the nature force will sleep and wait for its time to strike back (at Ragnarokr).
i have a wooden necklace amulet of jörmungandr and to me it is a symbol of being at piece with nature. it always upset me when people say that my amulet is "inaccurate" and that no vikings would ever have worn "the enemy of thor". now i understand why it bothered me so much, thank you for explaining and making me more sure of my faith
If Thor fighting Jormungand is a Christian motif, does that mean that neither Thor nor Jormungand die during Ragnarok? Does that mean that the whole story of Ragnarok is a Christian motif?
I think Ragnarök will happen but the gods won't die as Snorri depicted with all due respect may God rest his soul. All the gods vanir and aesir, childrens of Loki, elves, dwarves will fight together against Surtr and his forces.
@@Torsteinhauger The composer of the Wikipedia entry states, that in Voluspa "Odin is to be killed by the wolf Fenrir, and that Surtr will go to battle against "Beli's bane", a kenning for the god Freyr, who slew the giant Beli...In the stanzas that follow, a number of gods and their opponents are described as doing battle at Ragnarök, and that the world will be consumed in flames, yet afterward a new world rises from the sea, fertile and teeming with life, and the surviving gods will meet again and that Thor's sons Móði and Magni shall possess Thor's hammer Mjöllnir." But it doesn't say who wins - Surtr or Freyr. So is there somewhere that states whether Freyr is one of the surviving gods?
@@margaretwhitmer2715 Many scholars agree that voluspá one of the peom in Peotic edda is heavily influenced by Christianity which was written in the 10th century before the Christianization of Iceland to make the conversion easier. Snorri did change a few things here and there and made it relatable to the Bible so pagans in Iceland will easily accept the new religion. And he kills all the major gods in the end except for few I don't buy that all. The evil spirits of hel will join together to fight against the Aesir gods is a complete hogwash. Norse afterlife realm hel is completely opposite to Christian hell. Don't believe everything Snorri Sturluson says.
@@Torsteinhauger Oh, I don't. My best scenario is that Surtr and his allies just go on a tear for awhile that eventually burns itself out (as such conflagrations generally do) and then go back to Muspelheim until the next time they feel a need to tear it up. It seems every now and then the chaotic forces need to give us (and the gods) a poke to remind us/them that we/they aren't as powerful as we/they think we/they are. Another way to read it is that the advent of Christianity was, in a sense, Ragnarok. But now the gods are back. Hail.
OK, for an explanation of the basis for the Thor-Jormungand fishing story, see Job 41 "“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook?" etc. Snorri appears to be trying to draw a parallel between Jormungand and Leviathan and while some aspects may be similar, other aspects are not.
So everything I know about the Norse mythology is useless constructions? As much as I hate this , thank you for clarifying it . I have a lot to think about now and more to research
Really, really appreciate this video and your thoughts and research on Nidhögg and Jörmundgandr - I always felt that there must have been so many more stories and aspects regarding the snakes and dragons of the Norse than the chaotic monstrous ones - specially in comparison to other mythologies. Your work and channel are such great sources which expands the Norse-Germanic world beyond the well known stories of the Gods and Goddesses - it helps me broaden my own path and to explain interesting Norse/pagan aspects for others! Stort tack/Obrigado!
I had a feeling that was the case! the Vikings (serpent at front of ship) came to Ireland (one of their friends) to defend their faith - not to rape and pillage as Roman history tells us!
What about the fact that in paganism, everything has a dual nature, including the sacred. Serpents may have been sacred, but also would have this dual nature. As part of the natural cycle, Níðhöggr and Jörmungandr serve a purpose, and that is to bring the destruction of the gods and our world so it can be reborn. Good and evil as it is presented are Christian concepts. These two serpents doing what they do isn't "evil", it is a necessary part of nature.
Fafnir's account comes in the Icelandic Volsunga Saga which is late 13th century (Catholic period) but the account seems to be the written record of an oral tradition, as it is evident from the Ramsund carving, in Sweden, which dates to the 11th century, and as I've said in this video, the 11th century in Sweden marks the Christianization of Sweden. But also, this might follow an older tradition. Slaying the dragon or serpent isn't exclusivily a Christian motif, but it is also expressed in many Indo-European mythologies. If you have the time, please watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/afINJhf4yN8/v-deo.html&t - It's clear that the Serpent Cult is pre/pan-indo-european and the earth-based religions and expression of faith, before indo-european religious beliefs based on sky-deities. You know which other religions are based on sky-deities? Abrahamic ones, Christianity for instance - an entire cult based on a sky deity. It is the exact same religious motif of the sky deity fighting the serpent of the ancient pagans. Christianity not only is based on Judaism, but it is also greatly based on classical mythos, and it was a Roman creation to control the Roman province of Judea, so naturally it has the same religious bases of pagan cultures based on indo-european religious motifs. The serpent cult is indeed pan-indo-european, without a doubt, but this specific account in this video was greatly fomented by Christianity, which is based (mostly) on Roman religious concepts which in turn are based on indo-European religious motifs. This all goes down to Indo-European sky-deities " VS " primordial earth-cults/worship. Even the god within Abrahamic religious beliefs was once a Storm god very similar to the many storm/weather gods of the Indo-Europeans. Eastern Religious belifs " VS " the Western earth-cults/worships. The Serpent Cult is actually a western european belief which spread from the Iberian Peninsula (20.000 years ago) into the rest of Europe and subsequently into the rest of the world.
Great Videos. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts. Could anybody explain to me the symbol with the two people n the Background. I've seen that before, but I don't know its meaning.
Thank you. Your great videos have improved so much. The snake, the Naga is of huge transcultural importance. So clearly spoken, so focused and passionate.
The Naga is a good concept to understand the Serpent Cult predating the indo-european religious expressions seen in Hinduism ^^ In Hinduism there is a mixture between the old and the new, or rather, the pre-indo-european and pre-indo-iranian religions based on earth-cults, and the indo-european and indo-iranian religions based on Sky-deities.
Arith Härger Well, I spent all together 1 year in Nepal to learn about tribal shamanism over there and the NAGA really has pre-hinduistic origins. My Nepalese friends came to Europe every year and diagnosed many problems because NAGA, ANCESTOR SPIRITS and others are disrespected and feeling angry. Himalaya has preserved many ancient traditions and Nepal was never colonized. Naga comes in all colors and moves in all the 3 worlds. It moves in lightning, a tsunami, our veins, a rainbow, lightning, a creek, a river, a landslide, muddy fertile soil.... Naga loves milk, eggs and especially nettles (very holy plants)...
Very interesting! Aren't serpent-slaying myths found in similar forms around the world? I can easily imagine the story taking on a somewhat different significance after the introduction of Christianity, but it strikes me as likely that the overall shape and theme would've been more or less the same before. That's my amateur opinion, though.
You're absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with Christianity. Anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (or just seen one's fangs) can understand why they would be portrayed negatively across many different cultures!
Aye amazing work. I've tried to tell people myself many moons ago, that because the Prose Edda and Poetic Edda are done by a christian, Snorri Sturlson, then that renders them non-credible because it was done, by a christian. That's the end, that is the end of the entire argument. It's by a christian, take it with a grain a salt or something less than a grain of salt. Because not only are they by a christian but they were written after the land being christianized. So you have to go back further. A lot further. That's a good point even the Norse don't know the Norse Myths in reality. I didn't know Thor doesn't fight Jormungandr until I saw this. But I always said Ragnarok hasn't happened yet. I heard recently that Ragnarok is part of the cycle of destruction and creation, that it'll always happen in the Great Cycle I think it was Working Dragon Mystic who said that and shared your video about this, and then others try to tell me Ragnarok has happened and the bible god survived it so we're after Ragnarok in these times. What utter nonsense.
I recognize that there are serpents that hold very positive roles in animistic cultures. The Rainbow Serpent of the aboriginal people of Australia, for instance, is a beautiful myth, as are the many Chinese serpent myths. But the legend of a god/hero slaying a serpent-like sea monster crops up in Indo-European and Middle Eastern myths long before Christianity. In Greek mythology, Zeus kills Typhon; in Hindu mythology, Indra kills Vrtra; in Slavic mythology, Perun kills Veles; and in Hittite mythology; Tarhunt kills Illuyanka. It is such a common motif that I question whether the Norse version is necessarily the result of Christian revision.
Brilliant ,thank you Arith ,your conclusions are well thought out and go to the core of these myths .very well explained ,i enjoyed the video from start to finish . keeping the old stories and tales straight is the key in your work , you have perfectly unlocked the doors of mis- truths and Cristian bias . THANK YOU ,again ...have your self a wonderful day .
Seems like we learned a lot of crap about the germanic mythology. Christianity had an enormous impact on the interpretation of almost any aspect of life. The positive symbolism of Serpents can be found in Hinduism and Buddhism as well. The Naga building a shelter over Buddha's head or Shiva who is, as far as I know, some kind of Prototype of Odin, has Shakti and in relation to Water, the Goddess Ganga caught in his hair. In Sumerian, we can find Serpent gods like Ningishida who also relate to agriculture, earth, and water. Gnostic sects like Ophites had a positive understanding of the Serpent, too. How is the proper Writing of Jormungandr? I´ve seen some use the "ng" Ingwaz-rune to write it but you separated the words in Jormun and Gandr what suggest it is written with Nauthiz "N" and Gebo "G" !?
ley lines seem sort of a new-age invention no? Is there really ANY EVIDENCE that people in the past had a concept of ley lines really? A Google search indicates a guy named Alfred Watkins made up the term in the 1920s
Sorry but isn't thor's destiny to fight jormungandr i know that christianity made the serpent made it a symbol of evil but thor dose fight jormungandr and nidhogg is evil he even starts ragnarok
Can you say what books you used to talk about Jormungandr and Nidhogg? Because in all the books I have, Nidhogg and Jormungandr are creatures of chaos. Thanks for the video
It is crazy but I saw what I would describe as the world serpent in a dmt trip before I even started any spiritual/magical awakening type stuff. It was black and electromagnetic and it seemed to be able to make a tentacle appear out of nowhere constantly and everywhere and would then touch its influence upon someplace on the Earth. I felt that it was those little nudges given to obscurity (or the ether) to allow something (or forbid--for that matter) to be brought into being. I was brought there by the little blue friends on the polar opposite side of life where everything we do here is balanced over there by some very generous folks. When they took me to this massive snake I was filled with awe and humility. It looked me right in the eyes and I felt love in a stronger sense than I can ever remember feeling in any moment. I was able to get an "I love you" out before starting to cry like a baby. That moment changed my life. This sounds the most like any symbolic representation I have ever heard regarding what I witnessed that night.
Helvettii is a swear word in Switzerland? Thats the name of a Celtic tribe that fought against the Romans but then needed their help against germanic tribes...they were from the southern parts of Switzerland...
There's something I guess you let get lost. We can trade the hunt of whales back to the semitic and greek times and often it can be seen being used as a metaphor for God slaying the chaos, in the form of Leviathan. The myth of Leviathan can be trade back to the Ugaritic's Baal Cycle, when Baal slays Yam, who is represented sometimes as a sea serpent named Lotan. As Judaism and Christianity are both strongly related to the old semitic religions, the vision of god slaying a sea chaos serpent is very old and main in the christian mythology, it appears to be used by the missionary men as a link in between Christianity and Nors mythology.
If the dragon is like a winged serpent, then what is the role of the asian dragon? considering the fact that the chinese have the 12 zodiac animals, and both the snake and the dragon are separately existing
I appreciate your work and thank you for it, but in saying that the motif of Thor fighting the serpent is just wrong. Others have noted so many examples as to be pointless the years later, but the channel creganford does a really neat exploration of the Indo European story of the dragon slaying. I love and admire or ancestors in so many ways, but they also did things like horse fighting and bear baiting, so they were not above the idea of killing animals
You are great. I like very much your content. Keep doing it please! You are better professor than any one who are in mainstream academia telling lies and repeating politic propaganda. God bless you
कर्ता करे न कर सके शिव करे सो होय तीन लोक नौ खण्ड में शिव से बड़ा न कोई जय श्री महाकाल श्मशान भूमि नमः पार्वती पतये हर हर महादेव हर,,,,,,, 🙏💐🌺🥀☘️🌹🙏 हिंदी में बता दीजिए बिलकुल समझ में नहीं आया जो आपने बोला धन्यवाद आपका दिन मंगलमय हो शुभकामनाएं और प्रेम जय श्री महाकाल ☘️🌺🥰🙏
could anyone point me in the right direction of finding readings/videos about the importance of whales in the animistic panorama? That statement Arith made really intrigued me.
Oh my goodness! Ty for this! This makes so much more sense ... The constellation Cygnus the swan/goose/vulture/duck ect. Sits in the branches of world tree from which she sprang...thru the tree, the dark rift, the valley of the shadow of death, the cosmic womb, which is just at the beginning of the Milky Way, the flowing river of life which spills forth from the womb stretching all the way to Ophuichus/ the serpent bearer, who holds a snake where the roots of the tree lay....kundalini...as within, so without... 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💞💓✌🏽
I find this really hard to follow. I think sources for some research that you have used would help me follow, and cut out any assumptions made in your videos. Forgive me if I'm simply ignorant, but if I'm going to change the way I look at all of these things, I need to see why. I doesn't seem there is all that much backing up what's being said...
I believe Nidhogg and the other dragons that live in the roots of Yggdrasil to be fungal dragons, like fungus they live buried around a plant, they eat the dead and are seen as dangerous and unknown, but like real fungus they are not bad. Do you talk in any video if and how christians changed fenrir, hela or ran’s nature?
Very interesting ideas. Though if this is true, then it means we have very little accurate information on the true pre-christian Norse mythology and religion.
Serpents were dinosaurs . There was no word for a dinosaur in ancient times , there wasnt a word for them 200 years ago . I have a lot to say about what i believe they trully were though .
Hey Arith. just stumbled on your videos recently but greatly enjoying. Part of my last name is Orm because my great great great grandfather was a strange danish artist who named his children Orm and Hel after Lokis children and the name has been passed down. The theory in my family is that he kind of considered him to be a trickster god himself. This video was really interesting to me though cause I have really relied on Jormungander and thors duels for storys involving my namesake. Do you have thoughts on Jormungandr as Lokis son? is that a christian construct too?
Interesting that the night before I listened to this I dreamt that as a soul traveled down under the roots of the tree of life and saw a soul there that looked like a electrical serpent, but when I went closer, I received the impression it was more of a tape worm in a giants body, when I looked again I saw it was also like a Train going in circles until younger souls were tired of the ride and when I spoke to it I found it was like any other soul I've encountered. I had no idea that was an archetype!
If you want to read my academic work, I speak of in this video, about whales and fish in Scandinavia, you can read it here : www.patreon.com/posts/whale-in-old-and-32171412 "The Whale in Old Norse Religion and Scandinavian Medieval Literature", unlock it for $3 and you will also have access to 100+ papers, essays and academic works, plus 200+ posts including behind the scenes. Cheers! Have a great day!
@Alien Alien he never said he was or he wasn't. Arith expressed that he isn't concerned in showing his spiritual/religious beliefs but more concerned in trying to be neutral as much as possible so that his own perceptions won't influence the historical truth
Yes, I remember well that as a good teacher, Mr. Härguer lets his listeners form their opinions, and that is Freedom of Speech. As intelligent beings, we must be open to knowledge, not only the one with whom we identify, but also, to the contrary, this is the challenge that Häguer leaves us.
Every day we learn, sometimes improving, sometimes to accept change and rebuild our point of view!
@Alien Alien First of all, he is clearly pagan but being a pagan and speaking about Scandinavian stuff doesn't make hin Asatru. In fact, you haven't been paying attention at all because in several videos he said he isn't Asatruar at all. Secondly, you seem to make a confusion between the study of comparative mythologies and with universalism. The study of comparative mythologies is essential to understand religions of the past in the academic field. He is presenting information on an academic perspective, not exposing his own spiritual beliefs. And you speak as if universalism was bad, you are the typical asatruar who lingers in the same bs that was being invented in the 19th century. Have a good day.
Have you ever done a video on Surtur and Muspellheim? If not, it does seem like a good follow up to all of this talk on demonized entities.
@Alien Alien why would Asatru be genetically based? Its like say a person who isn't jew cannot understand kabbalah, yet many study and understand. you know your stance is called spiritual materialism and is the lowest manner of interpretation. its usually used by those who need to feel special, so they pick fights and make silly claims to validate there lack of understanding by trampling others. maintaining a level of ignorance to preserve self identity, or just stupidity. genetics is really complex, how your understanding of epi-genetics or do you understand the mechanics in which enzymes cut and paste protein sequences, how that changes in relation to the location of the body, what about mitochondrialdna, and how that effects development? which gene codes for asatru,? can it mutate or be methylated , if so, do you suddenly forget your spiritual understanding, is that the reason why the Christians changed the mythology, it was a genetic mutation, cause no where is there evidence for this? to say its genetically based shows you are either just making your self feel better, or just used concepts you think people are afriad to challenge you on. I think you in no position to start judging argument forms, when your base claims are foolish on the face of it. o and use your intuition more, and listen more and you can see the angle the speaker is coming from, its not hard young-ling
This dude is so underrated
If only he made his hair look all crazy and did more speculation about aliens and Vikings he would have a show on the history channel.
Agree 100%
Absolutely
AN HOUR VIDEO ON NIDHOGG & JORMUNGANDR, YOU MADE MY DAY!!!!! Thank you sir.
0:00 - Introduction
; 05:41 - Evolution of Norse Myths ; 10:35 - Níðhöggr & Náströnd ; 26:07 - Jörmungandr term meaning ; 34:20 - Smiss (witch-stone) Picture Stone ; 39:38 - Þórr fishing Jörmungandr & Altuna Runestone ; 44:35 - Ardre Image Stone (VIII) ; 49:17 - Other cases and Conclusion
Thank you, that helps a lot :)
@@kokkoanya5105 yes I thought this would be useful to walking around the video hehe
Mr. Härger, if you don't mind me asking, what sources did you get this information from? I would like to do further research into this topic. Thank you in advance.
The Indo-European archetype of the masculine thunderer/smiter slaying a serpent monster is found in many different places at many different times (Indra, Apollo, Jupiter, Perun, etc) . I don't disagree that the serpent was probably a prehistoric fertility symbol supplanted by new gods of a more warlike, masculine culture, but I think it's even older than Christianity.
As with the sumerian aryan horned deities. Specifically Inanna and two serpents.
Even Egyptian, Bast-Ra, the Cat with two daggers slaying the serpent representing Apep
Hmm Indra beating Vitrasura
I used to live near a 'sleeping dragon' called Arthur's seat in Edinburgh. I could see the sleeping dragon from my window. I studied this dragon which I initially viewed as an obstacle in my path. Then one day the dragon awoke in me.
I went on to study a bit of dragon mythology and came to the understanding that in the westernized 'Christian' world, the dragon was demonized and it was something within the human psyche that had to be slayed or destroyed or something we needed to rise above in order to reach heaven. I contrasted these ideas with the Chinese view of the dragon who revere both serpents and dragons. It was then I understood that christianity was rejecting the aspects of ourselves that are linked to what they viewed as our lower drives, ie. our basic instincts which we call upon to survive, reproduce and flourish. The Chinese view dragons as powerful cosmic forces that enhance our survival instincts on earth and this enhances our understanding of nature and the cosmos. The dragon is a living entity/force to be celebrated. It appears our ancient 'Norse' ancestors had similar and different ideas to the Chinese. Many ancient belief systems viewed the serpents as symbols of life, transformation and rebirth.
I believe the dragon is a cosmic force and the earth is a cosmic entity. So what you say makes sense. Plus, DNA resembles two serpents similar to the caduceus which is interesting considering it is a symbol used in modern medicine. The serpent like spirals that can be found on pagan stones resembles the life force of the universe ie. milky way as well as the life force on earth.
Thank you, Arith, for sharing your ideas with us.
Gandr + Alfar = Gandalf /Magic Elf, You gotta love that Tolkein was an Old English professor.
The name Gandalf come up verbatim in the poetic edda. Don't remember the name of the story, but it was the list of dwarves
Actually means Staff Elf and is a kenning for Odin, from which Tolkien got the whole Grey Old Wanderer motif.
Also, Álfar is the plural form. The singular is Álf(r).
I am no Tolkien expert but there is a historical king of Alfheim in Bohuslän in Norway/Sweden whose name was Gandalf, and regarding his clan there are myths about a certain Alf (a name in the royal family of Alfs) becoming Alf den ljuse - Alf the fair, a benevolent creature of light. I would guess that Tolkien knew about this myth, but it is a very obscure one.
How do you explain all of the countless dragonslayer/serpent slayer myths found in most of the Indo-European descendant cultures and religions? In most of them, the god or hero slays the dragon/serpent and then uses the body in some way to bring about life.
I respect your perspective, but it seems more likely to me that this is a very old Indo-European root myth, rather than Christian influence. Yes, as you say, the serpent is related to the energy of the earth and to swirling, sinuous vitality. And it is this vitality that, much like with Yimir, is distributed through dismemberment after the slaying of the serpent. Refer to the myth of Indra and Vritra. In it, most interestingly, when Indra slays the three-headed dragon he does so to release all the waters of the world that the dragon had claimed.
Releasing of the waters can also be analogous to the blood of the serpent, which we see as being powerful and full of vitality. Note, also, that Jormungandr is said to hold or retain waters, as you yourself touched on.
The myth of Indra and Vritra is only one of the many serpent slayer myths that descend from the original Indo-European culture. It is for this reason that I believe that this is an instance of PAGANISM influencing CHRISTIANITY, instead of the other way around.
Even older than indo-european is the Assyrian/Akkadian story of Ninurta/Marduk fighting a Serpent/Dragon. Also the very indo-european hittite story of Teshub slaying the serpent Illuyanka. I think Arith's theory needs some revision..
this explanation of the Christian imposition of a negative view of the dragon fits well for the Nordic context, but how do you explain the similar story of Indra killing the water serpent Vitra, found in the Rg Veda (dated to approximately 1, 500 BCE)?
I would say Indra killing Vitra, along with Zeus killing Typhon, indeed was them doing so, and that Vitra, Typhon, Kingu, and Leviathan should be thought of as different than jormangandr
@@goat_man144 oh really? How?
It's 5 in the morning for me. Even though I want to watch this video so baddly. And hour long omg that's awesome but it's way to late/early to do so. So it is saved for when I awaken. I can't wait to listen.
Well, this was 6h ago, you awake now? :P
Thor and Jörmungandr killing each other is much deeper metaphor of natural forces and civilization being in constant conflict.
Things have been so corrupted. We have been taught to stamp on our own deity. But with such enlightened information, hopefully not for always. Thank you for this knowledge.
Yes. Christianity has done alot of damage to our cultures. Whenever I read about Zeus affrairs with other creatures in this world, I see nothing more than christianity twisting Zeus stories
Your videos are so helpful to decolonizing my worldview. Thank you for all the truth you share in such a thorough way.
You are an inspiration to me. I've been searching my Scandinavian "danish/german" norse pagen heritage. Out of all I've watched you give the best description. Thank you for all you do
totally agree.
perfect, I finally get the idea of Jormungandr, he is a fertility and life symbol, part of the protection of midgard
Another fantastic video. I feel like this is healing a trauma I didn't realize I had.
Most what they learn us in university about slavic culture is a lie and once i wrote them an essay about the clothes that was worn and made that time, that the red suffisticated line was a protection and meant snake protector, they put 0 mark to me for it and lauhted critisizing me without giving their reasons why i was wrong. Hate them. We are given the write to tell our opinion, but once we say they dislike it and disallow to express your studies
Will you ever write a book Arith? I would really love if you wrote a book!
Aboriginal Australian people have a lot of stories about great serpents.Usually called rainbow serpents.I have never thought of Jorganmand as evil , just a force of nature,both creation and destruction.
Love the video very well done and answers a lot of questions that have been bugging me for some time thank you so much. love your channel.
Im at the part about Niðhogg in the video, and I was wondering if I may propose a thought on it.. you mentioned your doubt that the name was carried over accurately, but what if his name was more so a play on words.. maybe not so much about stripping their honor, but one who strips their human form in order to move on anew
Respect. You are very wise beyond your years. You shine bright and like a morning star. My brother.
Love your flag in the background ..so beautiful
Good theory but the serpent fighting the Striker predates christianity by around 4000 years
If you can, please watch some of my replies in the comments bellow and the video I've recommended about the serpent of paganism. Thank you.
This some of the best info I've ever heard. Armed with this info I can now better understand all other mythologies as well. And root out the Christian B.S. that has damaged my psyche. Thank you sir!!!
I thank you dearly for your sharing of this beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
Winged serpent = feathered serpent in American tradition. Amazing how much overlap there is.
The chinook of the pacific northwest had Tattoosh for the thunder god. They also adorned their tepees, canoes, and jewelry of him. The amount of overlapping through all the pantheons is yuuuugggeeeee.
If the idea of fighting serpents is Christian, how come you find the archetype of it in indo-European religion(I.e long before Christianity was thing)? You even see it with local Native American tribes here in NY! They would invoke their thunder god to protect them against the sea serpent of Lake Ontario.
Matthew Bennett Only whites they take there culture. Everyone els gets there.
Watch this video here, if you can: ua-cam.com/video/afINJhf4yN8/v-deo.html&t which I have also suggested on this video. It's clear that the Serpent Cult is pre/pan-indo-european and the earth-based religions and expression of faith, before indo-european religious beliefs based on sky-deities. You know which other religions are based on sky-deities? Abrahamic ones, Christianity for instance - an entire cult based on a sky deity. It is the exact same religious motif of the sky deity fighting the serpent of the ancient pagans. Christianity not only is based on Judaism, but it is also greatly based on classical mythos, and it was a Roman creation to control the Roman province of Judea, so naturally it has the same religious bases of pagan cultures based on indo-european religious motifs. The serpent cult is indeed pan-indo-european, without a doubt, but this specific account in this video was greatly fomented by Christianity, which is based (mostly) on Roman religious concepts which in turn are based on indo-European religious motifs. This all goes down to Indo-European sky-deities " VS " primordial earth-cults/worship. Even the god within Abrahamic religious beliefs was once a Storm god very similar to the many storm/weather gods of the Indo-Europeans. Eastern Religious belifs " VS " the Western earth-cults/worships. The Serpent Cult is actually a western european belief which spread from the Iberian Peninsula (20.000 years ago) into the rest of Europe and subsequently into the rest of the world.
@@ArithHärger Falling back on the utterly laughable "Romans invented Christianity" conspiracy theory! Hahaha that is classic. You, sir, are a moron.
@@ArithHärger Also, the idea that Europeans spread serpent myths to the rest of the world is toxically racist. Serpent myths of Africa and Australia are some of the oldest in the world.
What about baby Heracles/Hercules killing snakes? It was even on ceramics about half millennium before christianity? And Pompeii fresco
I don't mean to be rude, but could you read some of my replies in similar questions in this video? A bit tired today of repeating myself, that's all. In this video I'm specifically focusing on a scandinavian religious context fomented by Christian, but not entirely exclusively a Christian formulation, but just fomented by Christians in medieval scandinavia. It's actually a indo-European religious motif and the clash of that sort of religious mindset and the belief in sky deities when in contact with the pan-indo-european earth-cults/worship. Please, read my other replies. Thank you.
Arith Härger thank you for answering! At the moment I wrote there wasn’t much of a comments. I’ve already read your message, thank you very much for your work!
Judging buy the thing that says how long the videos are I think this is your longest video I reckon you should try to beat it's in length next time just because we could always use more of your content
I thought the Völuspá and Havamal where far older and had many creditable references? Seems like then if you are correct Arth then all the stories in the Edda are useless.
Chris Price They were created to teach a culture’s form of poetry that was about to be lost forever. They were not created to be religious texts. They’re useful. Just not in the way our abrahamic centered culture imagines them.
@@GoshenTrailsRanch its not my jew culture,your subtext of"our "is a lie,and offensive .
Snorri Sturlson's versions of the Eddas are some of the most popular and referenced. It's important to remember, that Sturlson was not a member of this spirituality and was in fact Christian. Back then the church employed hundreds of monks and priests to translate (literally and metaphorically) pagan texts and works of other religions into whatever language the church would be using in the time.
SNORRI TOOK THE STORIES PASSED DOWN ORALLY & SPUN IN CHRISTIANITY REMOVING THE CONTENT THAT DIDN'T FIT THE NARRATIVE OF HIS RELIGION
Great video! I agree Arith, it is fishy that in such a short time line of 200 years perhaps less the whole art and story line appears perverted and sadly we only have lots of the evidence in the lands already of converted once pagan or still partial pagan/Christian mix. Goes to show you what wealth, land, a new wife and 2-4 generations of family raised in foreign places can do to ones roots and if we did not have the not so much older evidence we would not even see the change happen. Makes me think of the far far distant past and beliefs, Gods, Goddesses perhaps even whole religious systems being common place for 1000s of years to be erased as fast as the way's of the old land vs that of those living in it for such a short time being like sun in moon in their story line, and art. Without stone to carve it on, it would be dust and not archaeological evidence of any kind.
QUE sabiduría ,madre mía ¡ gracias 👏👏👏
I don't really believe the whole good versus evil thing in Norse myth. It's seems to be more neutral versus neutral. No black versus white. Everything is just grey. Makes it way more interesting than the stories where you have a clear good and clear evil
I feel like you focus A LOT on the ways Christianity messed with the Norse legends. You really don’t have to do that in every video. I’m not trying to be overly negative, but I feel like these videos would be shorter and more engaging if you just focused on the myths as they were originally written, without explaining all the changes Christians tried to make.
However, the ways in which Christianity has messed with Norse myth could be a great subject for one big video. That way you can get it all out of the way, and focus on the core mythology. Making a single video about the Christian influences over Norse religion would ALSO give you a singular place to refer people to if they’re at all curious about that information.
But dude, we don’t look you up so you’ll explain how the Christians made a mess of peganism. We come to you to find out the finer details of the real Norse legends, so just do that.
I hope this helped.
The fact is that we don't actually know how much Christianity may have impacted the Norse myths as they were passed down to us, because there is no pre-Christian version to compare them to.
What we *can* say with certainty is that there are many, many legends of deities and heroes slaying serpents and dragons from pre-Christian cultures all over the world, and the Norse legends of dragon-slaying closely resemble those from other Indo-European cultures.
the snakewich of the smissstone bears a huge resemblance of the famous snakegiodess of the minoans.
well spotted ! didn't think of that one before. The one with a snake in each hand, right?
@@ArithHärger where did u find the tapestry behind you?
Do you not consider sumerian to be a pagan culture, We have their Tablets, And a number of other stone records.
I understand that Thor doesn't kill Jormungandr. How then does Thor die during Ragnarök?
I sometimes interpreted it as Thor fighting against fate. Or struggling rather.
@@avikingwego2162 What arbitrary nonsense. Where did you get that from? Your ass obviously.
I know I'm late to the party but
What if Thor fishing jormungandr is him wanting / trying to 'wake' or connect to the earths life force...
Maybe he will have to kill his mother so in the mutual destruction of ... everything, everything begins again from the new egg.
Random associations - I just watched the serpent & the egg Video again 🍃
Or Thor is us exploiting life force because we can and if we keep doing that it will fight us and if the fight kills them both, they die. We die. Whatever...
Maybe they painted that motif as a warning that could be passed through Christianity :D
@@handalf9502 I've got a much easier explanation.
Jormungandr is the child of Loki. It's fairly reasonable that Loki may corrupt Jormungandr and his purpose during ragnarok.
His mother is a sort of god of the earth, but the actual earch was made from the body of Ymir.
@@ジョジョさま Maybe jormungandr ist jord after a night of angry drinking with Loki!
I was thinking of jord as the creative force of life, maybe like sophia not the physical structure of the earth.
However, don't take me too serious :)
I thank you dearly for your sharimg ofcthis beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
Thank you!!! Been looking forward to this video for a long time. 🐍✨
I interpret Thor fighting the snake in a pagan way for me. To fight the snake for me is a symbol for the attempt to eliminate dangerous aspects of nature (especially in agriculture with Thor as its protector). We as humans should not try to dominate or destroy the earth and its nature when even the gods in a good will are not capable to do this. Donar is not capable to kill this danger (when he goes out fishing) but only to change it a little bit in the direction he wants to (the lifting of the cat in Utgardlokis hall). It only seems to be successful while the nature force will sleep and wait for its time to strike back (at Ragnarokr).
i have a wooden necklace amulet of jörmungandr and to me it is a symbol of being at piece with nature. it always upset me when people say that my amulet is "inaccurate" and that no vikings would ever have worn "the enemy of thor". now i understand why it bothered me so much, thank you for explaining and making me more sure of my faith
If Thor fighting Jormungand is a Christian motif, does that mean that neither Thor nor Jormungand die during Ragnarok? Does that mean that the whole story of Ragnarok is a Christian motif?
I think Ragnarök will happen but the gods won't die as Snorri depicted with all due respect may God rest his soul. All the gods vanir and aesir, childrens of Loki, elves, dwarves will fight together against Surtr and his forces.
@@Torsteinhauger The composer of the Wikipedia entry states, that in Voluspa "Odin is to be killed by the wolf Fenrir, and that Surtr will go to battle against "Beli's bane", a kenning for the god Freyr, who slew the giant Beli...In the stanzas that follow, a number of gods and their opponents are described as doing battle at Ragnarök, and that the world will be consumed in flames, yet afterward a new world rises from the sea, fertile and teeming with life, and the surviving gods will meet again and that Thor's sons Móði and Magni shall possess Thor's hammer Mjöllnir." But it doesn't say who wins - Surtr or Freyr. So is there somewhere that states whether Freyr is one of the surviving gods?
@@margaretwhitmer2715 Many scholars agree that voluspá one of the peom in Peotic edda is heavily influenced by Christianity which was written in the 10th century before the Christianization of Iceland to make the conversion easier. Snorri did change a few things here and there and made it relatable to the Bible so pagans in Iceland will easily accept the new religion. And he kills all the major gods in the end except for few I don't buy that all. The evil spirits of hel will join together to fight against the Aesir gods is a complete hogwash. Norse afterlife realm hel is completely opposite to Christian hell. Don't believe everything Snorri Sturluson says.
@@Torsteinhauger Oh, I don't. My best scenario is that Surtr and his allies just go on a tear for awhile that eventually burns itself out (as such conflagrations generally do) and then go back to Muspelheim until the next time they feel a need to tear it up. It seems every now and then the chaotic forces need to give us (and the gods) a poke to remind us/them that we/they aren't as powerful as we/they think we/they are. Another way to read it is that the advent of Christianity was, in a sense, Ragnarok. But now the gods are back. Hail.
OK, for an explanation of the basis for the Thor-Jormungand fishing story, see Job 41 "“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook?" etc. Snorri appears to be trying to draw a parallel between Jormungand and Leviathan and while some aspects may be similar, other aspects are not.
So everything I know about the Norse mythology is useless constructions? As much as I hate this , thank you for clarifying it . I have a lot to think about now and more to research
Really, really appreciate this video and your thoughts and research on Nidhögg and Jörmundgandr - I always felt that there must have been so many more stories and aspects regarding the snakes and dragons of the Norse than the chaotic monstrous ones - specially in comparison to other mythologies.
Your work and channel are such great sources which expands the Norse-Germanic world beyond the well known stories of the Gods and Goddesses - it helps me broaden my own path and to explain interesting Norse/pagan aspects for others!
Stort tack/Obrigado!
I had a feeling that was the case! the Vikings (serpent at front of ship) came to Ireland (one of their friends) to defend their faith - not to rape and pillage as Roman history tells us!
What about the fact that in paganism, everything has a dual nature, including the sacred. Serpents may have been sacred, but also would have this dual nature. As part of the natural cycle, Níðhöggr and Jörmungandr serve a purpose, and that is to bring the destruction of the gods and our world so it can be reborn. Good and evil as it is presented are Christian concepts. These two serpents doing what they do isn't "evil", it is a necessary part of nature.
Good video its good to see someone with some original facts its sad to see many cultures have been corrupted and given a bad view in the modern day
Your so intelligent. I'm impressed.
What about Sigurd slaying Fafnir?
Fafnir's account comes in the Icelandic Volsunga Saga which is late 13th century (Catholic period) but the account seems to be the written record of an oral tradition, as it is evident from the Ramsund carving, in Sweden, which dates to the 11th century, and as I've said in this video, the 11th century in Sweden marks the Christianization of Sweden. But also, this might follow an older tradition. Slaying the dragon or serpent isn't exclusivily a Christian motif, but it is also expressed in many Indo-European mythologies. If you have the time, please watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/afINJhf4yN8/v-deo.html&t - It's clear that the Serpent Cult is pre/pan-indo-european and the earth-based religions and expression of faith, before indo-european religious beliefs based on sky-deities. You know which other religions are based on sky-deities? Abrahamic ones, Christianity for instance - an entire cult based on a sky deity. It is the exact same religious motif of the sky deity fighting the serpent of the ancient pagans. Christianity not only is based on Judaism, but it is also greatly based on classical mythos, and it was a Roman creation to control the Roman province of Judea, so naturally it has the same religious bases of pagan cultures based on indo-european religious motifs. The serpent cult is indeed pan-indo-european, without a doubt, but this specific account in this video was greatly fomented by Christianity, which is based (mostly) on Roman religious concepts which in turn are based on indo-European religious motifs. This all goes down to Indo-European sky-deities " VS " primordial earth-cults/worship. Even the god within Abrahamic religious beliefs was once a Storm god very similar to the many storm/weather gods of the Indo-Europeans. Eastern Religious belifs " VS " the Western earth-cults/worships. The Serpent Cult is actually a western european belief which spread from the Iberian Peninsula (20.000 years ago) into the rest of Europe and subsequently into the rest of the world.
1:00:39 as much a you know.... You still KNOW NOTHING!!! HAAAAAA!!!! You reverted right back to the same people who created Christianity!
I like your views on these subjects. They have a feel of logic. Would you mind coming on a podcast to explore the concepts further?
Thank you for making this video!
goodness. thank you. this was a long one and i'm sure you were very tired after making it.
Thank you for your insight.
i want you to know that i am grateful for your work.
Thank you for letting me know that. Much appreciated. Have a wonderful day.
I shouldn't have decided to watch this while eating my baked eels...
The Viking women never left she's still here ready to fight
Absolutely!
Great Videos. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts.
Could anybody explain to me the symbol with the two people n the Background.
I've seen that before, but I don't know its meaning.
Awesome great research shared
Thank you. Your great videos have improved so much. The snake, the Naga is of huge transcultural importance. So clearly spoken, so focused and passionate.
The Naga is a good concept to understand the Serpent Cult predating the indo-european religious expressions seen in Hinduism ^^ In Hinduism there is a mixture between the old and the new, or rather, the pre-indo-european and pre-indo-iranian religions based on earth-cults, and the indo-european and indo-iranian religions based on Sky-deities.
Arith Härger Well, I spent all together 1 year in Nepal to learn about tribal shamanism over there and the NAGA really has pre-hinduistic origins. My Nepalese friends came to Europe every year and diagnosed many problems because NAGA, ANCESTOR SPIRITS and others are disrespected and feeling angry. Himalaya has preserved many ancient traditions and Nepal was never colonized. Naga comes in all colors and moves in all the 3 worlds. It moves in lightning, a tsunami, our veins, a rainbow, lightning, a creek, a river, a landslide, muddy fertile soil.... Naga loves milk, eggs and especially nettles (very holy plants)...
Very interesting! Aren't serpent-slaying myths found in similar forms around the world? I can easily imagine the story taking on a somewhat different significance after the introduction of Christianity, but it strikes me as likely that the overall shape and theme would've been more or less the same before. That's my amateur opinion, though.
You're absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with Christianity. Anyone who's ever been bitten by a snake (or just seen one's fangs) can understand why they would be portrayed negatively across many different cultures!
Aye amazing work. I've tried to tell people myself many moons ago, that because the Prose Edda and Poetic Edda are done by a christian, Snorri Sturlson, then that renders them non-credible because it was done, by a christian. That's the end, that is the end of the entire argument. It's by a christian, take it with a grain a salt or something less than a grain of salt. Because not only are they by a christian but they were written after the land being christianized. So you have to go back further. A lot further. That's a good point even the Norse don't know the Norse Myths in reality. I didn't know Thor doesn't fight Jormungandr until I saw this. But I always said Ragnarok hasn't happened yet. I heard recently that Ragnarok is part of the cycle of destruction and creation, that it'll always happen in the Great Cycle I think it was Working Dragon Mystic who said that and shared your video about this, and then others try to tell me Ragnarok has happened and the bible god survived it so we're after Ragnarok in these times. What utter nonsense.
I recognize that there are serpents that hold very positive roles in animistic cultures. The Rainbow Serpent of the aboriginal people of Australia, for instance, is a beautiful myth, as are the many Chinese serpent myths. But the legend of a god/hero slaying a serpent-like sea monster crops up in Indo-European and Middle Eastern myths long before Christianity. In Greek mythology, Zeus kills Typhon; in Hindu mythology, Indra kills Vrtra; in Slavic mythology, Perun kills Veles; and in Hittite mythology; Tarhunt kills Illuyanka. It is such a common motif that I question whether the Norse version is necessarily the result of Christian revision.
Brilliant ,thank you Arith ,your conclusions are well thought out and go to the core of these myths .very well explained ,i enjoyed the video from start to finish . keeping the old stories and tales straight is the key in your work , you have perfectly unlocked the doors of mis- truths and Cristian bias . THANK YOU ,again ...have your self a wonderful day .
Seems like we learned a lot of crap about the germanic mythology. Christianity had an enormous impact on the interpretation of almost any aspect of life. The positive symbolism of Serpents can be found in Hinduism and Buddhism as well. The Naga building a shelter over Buddha's head or Shiva who is, as far as I know, some kind of Prototype of Odin, has Shakti and in relation to Water, the Goddess Ganga caught in his hair. In Sumerian, we can find Serpent gods like Ningishida who also relate to agriculture, earth, and water. Gnostic sects like Ophites had a positive understanding of the Serpent, too. How is the proper Writing of Jormungandr? I´ve seen some use the "ng" Ingwaz-rune to write it but you separated the words in Jormun and Gandr what suggest it is written with Nauthiz "N" and Gebo "G" !?
ley lines seem sort of a new-age invention no? Is there really ANY EVIDENCE that people in the past had a concept of ley lines really? A Google search indicates a guy named Alfred Watkins made up the term in the 1920s
Very interesting, also because a lot of people on psychedelics see snakes. It makes a little more sense now!
"The Brazen Serpent" is the image used for the medical emblem. "The caduceus"
Sorry but isn't thor's destiny to fight jormungandr i know that christianity made the serpent made it a symbol of evil but thor dose fight jormungandr and nidhogg is evil he even starts ragnarok
Whales are related to Hippopotamus, who are related to Jormungandr!
Can you say what books you used to talk about Jormungandr and Nidhogg? Because in all the books I have, Nidhogg and Jormungandr are creatures of chaos. Thanks for the video
I'll be honest, the idea of Jormy (for short) being evil always sat wrong with me. It irked me from start to the end. Now I know why!
It is crazy but I saw what I would describe as the world serpent in a dmt trip before I even started any spiritual/magical awakening type stuff. It was black and electromagnetic and it seemed to be able to make a tentacle appear out of nowhere constantly and everywhere and would then touch its influence upon someplace on the Earth. I felt that it was those little nudges given to obscurity (or the ether) to allow something (or forbid--for that matter) to be brought into being. I was brought there by the little blue friends on the polar opposite side of life where everything we do here is balanced over there by some very generous folks. When they took me to this massive snake I was filled with awe and humility. It looked me right in the eyes and I felt love in a stronger sense than I can ever remember feeling in any moment. I was able to get an "I love you" out before starting to cry like a baby. That moment changed my life. This sounds the most like any symbolic representation I have ever heard regarding what I witnessed that night.
Helvettii is a swear word in Switzerland? Thats the name of a Celtic tribe that fought against the Romans but then needed their help against germanic tribes...they were from the southern parts of Switzerland...
There's something I guess you let get lost. We can trade the hunt of whales back to the semitic and greek times and often it can be seen being used as a metaphor for God slaying the chaos, in the form of Leviathan. The myth of Leviathan can be trade back to the Ugaritic's Baal Cycle, when Baal slays Yam, who is represented sometimes as a sea serpent named Lotan. As Judaism and Christianity are both strongly related to the old semitic religions, the vision of god slaying a sea chaos serpent is very old and main in the christian mythology, it appears to be used by the missionary men as a link in between Christianity and Nors mythology.
I had a Kundalini awakening and have pictures with serpents around my head. The pagans had it right. Thank you
Great video again, loved it ! I love the great serpent, so how couldn't i love it ? :)
Thanks lot !
thank you my friend ^^
The whale constellation is now called Delphineus, Orca means heavenly beast majestic orca and see the island majorca
If the dragon is like a winged serpent, then what is the role of the asian dragon? considering the fact that the chinese have the 12 zodiac animals, and both the snake and the dragon are separately existing
I appreciate your work and thank you for it, but in saying that the motif of Thor fighting the serpent is just wrong. Others have noted so many examples as to be pointless the years later, but the channel creganford does a really neat exploration of the Indo European story of the dragon slaying. I love and admire or ancestors in so many ways, but they also did things like horse fighting and bear baiting, so they were not above the idea of killing animals
Also in Finnish paganism, the god of thunder and also fertility Ukko (Also called Perkele like Slavic Perkunas.) sacred animal was the snake.
thank you for this important contribution to creating a broader context for these stories and characters!
You are great. I like very much your content. Keep doing it please! You are better professor than any one who are in mainstream academia telling lies and repeating politic propaganda. God bless you
do you suspect the story of Beowulf is also corrupted?
कर्ता करे न कर सके शिव करे सो होय तीन लोक नौ खण्ड में शिव से बड़ा न कोई जय श्री महाकाल श्मशान भूमि
नमः पार्वती पतये हर हर महादेव हर,,,,,,,
🙏💐🌺🥀☘️🌹🙏
हिंदी में बता दीजिए बिलकुल समझ में नहीं आया जो आपने बोला
धन्यवाद आपका दिन मंगलमय हो
शुभकामनाएं और प्रेम जय श्री महाकाल ☘️🌺🥰🙏
could anyone point me in the right direction of finding readings/videos about the importance of whales in the animistic panorama? That statement Arith made really intrigued me.
Oh my goodness! Ty for this! This makes so much more sense ...
The constellation Cygnus the swan/goose/vulture/duck ect. Sits in the branches of world tree from which she sprang...thru the tree, the dark rift, the valley of the shadow of death, the cosmic womb, which is just at the beginning of the Milky Way, the flowing river of life which spills forth from the womb stretching all the way to Ophuichus/ the serpent bearer, who holds a snake where the roots of the tree lay....kundalini...as within, so without...
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💞💓✌🏽
I find this really hard to follow. I think sources for some research that you have used would help me follow, and cut out any assumptions made in your videos. Forgive me if I'm simply ignorant, but if I'm going to change the way I look at all of these things, I need to see why. I doesn't seem there is all that much backing up what's being said...
There isn't. It's basically a conspiracy theory.
Thank you for this video. It's really necessary
I believe Nidhogg and the other dragons that live in the roots of Yggdrasil to be fungal dragons, like fungus they live buried around a plant, they eat the dead and are seen as dangerous and unknown, but like real fungus they are not bad. Do you talk in any video if and how christians changed fenrir, hela or ran’s nature?
in light of how jormungandr became twisted perhaps nidhoggr was meant to mean nether-hewer originally?
A lot of this sounds like Gnosticism where the Naasenes worshiped Jesus as the Serpent from the Garden of Eden
Very interesting ideas. Though if this is true, then it means we have very little accurate information on the true pre-christian Norse mythology and religion.
Wow. This helped so so much.
Serpents were dinosaurs .
There was no word for a dinosaur in ancient times , there wasnt a word for them 200 years ago .
I have a lot to say about what i believe they trully were though .
Hey Arith. just stumbled on your videos recently but greatly enjoying. Part of my last name is Orm because my great great great grandfather was a strange danish artist who named his children Orm and Hel after Lokis children and the name has been passed down. The theory in my family is that he kind of considered him to be a trickster god himself. This video was really interesting to me though cause I have really relied on Jormungander and thors duels for storys involving my namesake. Do you have thoughts on Jormungandr as Lokis son? is that a christian construct too?
in my family the casual translation for who Orm is is World Serpent. Definitely not just huge monster.
Interesting that the night before I listened to this I dreamt that as a soul traveled down under the roots of the tree of life and saw a soul there that looked like a electrical serpent, but when I went closer, I received the impression it was more of a tape worm in a giants body, when I looked again I saw it was also like a Train going in circles until younger souls were tired of the ride and when I spoke to it I found it was like any other soul I've encountered. I had no idea that was an archetype!
Amazing video! Thank you, This knowledge sunk in deep.
Ok sir, you seem educated and all, but I have seen lot of marvel movies to be able to state you are all wrong in your perception of norse mythology!
Can you go into my daughters scool to make truth teaching ..laugh :D