The Truth - GM 3.0L Duramax Diesel Oil Pump Belt/Heating Issues
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2020
- There has been a lot of controversy over GM's new 3.0L Duramax Diesel oil pump belt and running hot. In this video, we talk with the engineer behind it to get the answers to these top concerns on the new diesel engine.
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I love it when the GM rep exhaustedly said "you know, it is what it is".
That’s the same thing they said about the D’s they got in college during their GM interviews 🤣
Yeah it almost sounds like our X president with 500,000 people dead it is what it is.......
Because they do not care about the customer
chickenfarm09 oh they care about the customer but that only applies to the initial sale. They want you to buy another one instead of building a truck that will last 20 years like they used to.
How about General motors just go ahead and change them all at 150,000 miles free of charge as a warranty and this guy help the techs do the service work
GM is gambling you’ll trade in on a new truck before that. Besides the transmission will fail by 150 k anyway. GM believed at 150 the truck has reached the end of its usable life anyway.
I have the 2020 Silverado with 3.0 Duramax. How much will it cost to replace this oil pump belt?
Gm should replace the belt free of charge at 150,000 miles. Poor engineering setting up customers for rediculous service charges.
@@gregrowe1168 The transmission will fail at a 150k? Where is this data coming from ?
@@calebniederhofer6529 I doubt it would, this dudes just some fudd spouting off normal fudd rhetoric.
Dropping the transmission to check a belt???? I'm glad I came across this video. I'm looking at a new truck in about a week. This truck just got a line through it! Ford F150 too expensive. Leaning towards the Tundra.
I’ve been in the trucking industry for over 30 years I drove the at4 with this engine and was very impressed in fact I bought the truck I’m not worried about that belt in the least
You'll unload it before the belt fails I'm guessing
Why didn’t they go with a gear drive?
How's it running
chickenfarm09 most likely. That’s the thinking of too many people today and manufacturers know that. Design vehicles that perform well, look great with tons of technology but fall apart in 5 years. Their marketing department will convince you to buy another though so everybody is happy.
@@michaelbenoit248 Because a gear drive system would be more expensive to design and install. GM could screw up anything. The 3.0 Dmax is not much more than a a gas engine architecture beefed up enough to get through warranty.
You know, one of the big advantages of an Inline engine is that, in general, everything is EASIER to access and service. Among other benefits, that's what many people love about straight 6 engines..... But leave it to GM engineers to screw that up.
@@JohnDoe-nz6bk You're everywhere, and you keep posting the same BS about your Ram. Nobody believes you. You need to be banned for spamming threads.
The Repo Man awww.. Look who's butthurt by the truth. Facts don't care about your feelings and truth isn't spam littleman. I HIGHLY suggest that you educate yourself before posting stupid comments littleman, or at least buy an actual diesel before spouting off at the mouth. Thanks for proving that you have a SEVERE reading comprehension problem though!
Well they did the design and engineer work at their facility in Italy. Automotive (and non automotive) stuff that comes out of Italy is known to have really stupid designs and to be problematic.
@@CuzRepo Ya think he has a size problem? Driving all these big trucks and trying to insult you by calling you little man.
@@JohnDoe-nz6bk if ram was cheeting they would have nailed them to the wall .gm has not made a good truck since they went to ifs .if you want a small truck buy a toyota sad but true .
Thanks for the information. Considering one for the Tahoe. My 2002 6.6L Duramax is still running fine @ 254,000 miles. Nothing but general service done so far.
Thanks for this video! I was about to order one. Great info saved me from getting stuck with one of these.
When an engineer says "Ya know, it is what it is", that doesn't sound very engineery.
Sounds like he’s saying I’m only doing what I was told to do.
Two EGR’s, “active coolant management” with multiple coolant valves, and a rubber belt driving the oil pump. This thing is a ticking time bomb.
900 miles on mine and already having heating and oil issues, along with constant regens and eating a ton of DEF.
John Doe ur not the only one. What gm vehicle isn’t a huge pile of shit anymore?? Not one is a decent anymore
Get rid of it before the warranty runs out!
@@jonnylowkon GM makes the worst vehicles, you ding-a-Iing! I'm so much better than you!
Strange. Here in europe we have had timing belts in engines for 40years now. Still no problems. All problems with timing has been chain related for 20years.
Great interview. There's always a reason for these things. Good to know it.
just bought a new 2022 Yukon 4X4 with the 3.0L Duramax, love this engines power and mpg. I'm not concerned one bit on this belt driven oil pump.
I drive 7.3 excursion 360k mile @ 16 years yesterday drove the 3.0 duramax in the 1500 to see if I want the Tahoe diesel and yes I would own it, loved it.
Thanks for the video. I appreciate the work you put into your presentations.
Thanks!
Tim, as always thank-you on providing an awesome and informative Forum, wow 2 days to answer all comments, that is one thing I have to say I appreciate and notice is that you seem to like to answer my comments so thanks for your personal, interactive and informative format. This is an. Awesome channel , keep em coming. The other thing I wanted to say is WOW! Thanks to John Barta for coming on and to you for organizing it! Getting the father of the Baby duramax to come on the channel to talk about his engineering solutions with this awesome engine I really enjoyed a look behind the scenes about the development of this engine. I can’t wait to drive one and really appreciate what a fine piece of engineering this engine is. I can appreciate how the LP EGR will contribute to the trouble free operation of this engine over the whole fleet and can appreciate how the short air induction loop adds the responsiveness of the engine reducing turbo lag and how this new diesel is the state of the art with its thermal management of not only coolant but engine oil to maximize the efficiency of this particular engine. It is no wonder this is the most efficient diesel out there. They seemed to have honed that efficiency to a fine point. Very impressive. I look forward to owning one, I’m with John’s wife and am excited to get one in the Tahoe. I’m hoping that the ride will be improved in that platform over the Silverado with the move to independent suspension. We’ll see.
Thanks for watching! You guys make this happen.
Hi Tim. First time to watch one of your videos. Very informative (and reassuring) as I just ordered a 2021 Silverado 1500 LTZ with the 3.0.
Thanks and glad I can help!
Great video. Loved the explanation by the GM guy. I’m looking at either the Silverado or the suburban diesel . Gotta test drive them first and get past the crazy covid pricing tho.
This guy makes the process sound simple But to take off the transmission it’s like $900-$1200 in labor Just call any repair shop or transmission shop
Labor is just so expensive especially at a dealer. $100/hr is common now. Even if you’re good at wrenching on your own vehicles, some stuff is difficult to do in your own garage unless you have spent a ton of money on tools.
That particular repair could cost you as much $3000 getting it done at a shop
Well, the starter on my "bullet proof" Lexus GX460 just cost me $1100 for labor and $800 for the part as per the Lexus labor manual at 140,000 miles, so this is a similar expense.
I feel your pain homie Holy shit, $800.00 starter
Oh good another “lease only” vehicle 🙄
@@augustinetommy9288 Status report?📄
Amazing that you can - and do - go right to the GM engineers, so that we get the correct info from the engineers that built it!
Great discussion and really appreciate the content. I have owned two Chevy Duramax trucks and they have been very reliable and low cost to maintain. I average over 100 miles per day with my trucks and have never had a problem. Like one person commented below, you gotta run your Diesel engines. I am an American Army Veteran first so I am a fan of all American manufactured Diesel engines such as Ford and Cummings. Only trade my trucks because I love the new GM upgrades and improved performance. I appreciate the discussion but it won’t stop me from buying this truck. God bless America!!
And me from Canada I approve this comment
@Andy Pedro... trust me I know. I have owned both engines that are installed in my Chevrolet trucks. My preference and my money. 😁
@Andy Pedro You don't know what you're talking about. Duramax engines are NOT Japanese made but are made in the US. Where did you get your info from?
@Andy Pedro Japanese engine built in Flint Mi if any one can listen.
The Duramax V8 engine is a General Motors Diesel V8 engine family for trucks. The 6.6-liter Duramax is produced by DMAX, a joint venture between GM and Isuzu in Moraine, Ohio. This new engine is built in Flint MI. American made!
Great conversation! Wife and I are waiting the economy to get back up and running. Might continue hiding and wait out the 2021’s hitting the lots..
I was so excited for a straight 6 then they go a mess it up like this...
I agree!
@J P that is the truth. Whether it's good or bad, it's the truth!
Thanks for getting the engineer on Tim. I'm sure a lot of people love to hear from and be able to ask questions to the guys that design these things.
The extension in Escalade size making it a true 7 passenger for adults prompts our need for this rig. Hearing about the cruising range being under 375 miles in the 6.2 interested me in the 3.0 Dirtymax with its projected 600 miles range. Think they could put in a bigger tank in the 6.2's when reliability and commercial use as a piece of equipment is needed, not another possible Questionable powerplant, but I am all for technical advances especially when it saves fuel consumption. Thank you Tim for bringing John out here and Congratulations to GM for delivering what we want. I have no problem changing the belt at 150k if all else holds up. Any further data or problems with 3.0 driveability are appreciated!
Just placed an order for a 22 escalade with the 3L duramax. cant wait
6.2 XL range is already over 600 miles, the 3.0 should hit closer to 750. I drive over 500 miles to the city and run errands before refueling for the return trip with 2 6.2l Yukon XLs. -30 I generally stop for fuel enroute. I can still make it on one tank, but don't want to run too low and possibly lower fuel pump life.
@@courtneyanderson2293 That's impressive, it's refreshing to hear of convenience improvements. New contender to consider for our hauling needs for sure!
Thanks for your response. Just concerned that with our short runs maybe a V8 might be a better choice. Have had both an '02 and '08 Duramax and they were pretty much trouble free. Had to pay attention with the '08 when idling to long or it would go into limp mode. Would hope the 3.0 would be as good as they were. Very tempting. :)
The new ones don't idle long. My 2021 6.6 will shut off in about 10 minutes. 2022 Caddy 3.0 coming soon.
I feel so sorry that this guy has to defend bean counter decisions.
Amen :(
So what about your Prius you are driving with the $15,000 batteries that need replacing after 3-4 years?
@@mt1885 it's not even $2500 to replace them. A Prius would cost over $50k if that was the case. Also you dont have to replace them. You'll still get 30mpg+.
Yeah...me too. why can't they (GM) just re-engineer the drive belt?
its not been counters,as much as the epa,,theres better options for design than what they came up with..it over heats,from factory,plus it has 3 other gremlins,,another gm fk up..
I have one, it is by far the best half ton pickup I’ve ever had. I full time RV and have been using this pickup to pull a 7600 lb travel trailer across the US. I’ve have nothing but a positive experience. 10/10 would buy again.
Hey Seth, Great to hear, I have had a good experience as well. Let us know if you have any issues........
Hey bud how’s the truck been after the last year?
@@veeco3110 Hey thanks for reaching out. I just saw this comment. When I wrote this the truck was fantastic. Then within 6 months it was burning oil and the truck left me and my family stranded on the side of the highway. GM ended up buying the truck back from me. Then I bought a 3/4 ton chevy gas pickup. That truck was fantastic and pulled my travel trailer like a dream. I recently traded it in for a Ford Bronco though because of the gas prices ... and they are just so damn cool lol.
@@setharcher3108 The LM2 has an issue with the valve cover. The supplier didn't detect that an internal weld was defective and it can cause engine oil to leak into a ventilation tube in the cover, causing engine oil to get sucked into the combustion chamber. There's a TSB and redesigned valve cover for the issue.
GM needs to extend their engine warranty on this one.
They do but will the. rest of truck out last the engine with the extended warranty?
They will call it a maintenance item not cover under warranty
@@billbuckley5745 they did. Is called a wear item, like brakes and wipers. I had high hopes for this new mill but it seems that with every new diesel that comes out the gassers make more and more sense.
@@GIGABACHI I agree the gas is a better choice. I own a 03 dura max with the injection problem it probably the same engineer who designed dura max with the injection under valve cover design belt in the back of the motor.
@@GIGABACHI I'm not touching a chevy 6.6 gasser variable oil pump hah no.
From the same minds that brought us the cylinder deactivation that toasts the 5.3.
See I have major problems with this statement......I have never met someone with a 5.3 that has had these issues....NOT ONE PERSON... and people love the GMC sierra 1500 around here....
Jswope Two words: oil consumption
@@SwopetheDope l know of 4 personally.
Incorrect. The engineers that work on the gas engines are not the same that work on the diesel. Nice try.
Exactly!
I own a new 3.0 bought in February. 18000 miles and counting no issues so far. Good power and torque while also getting great fuel economy.
What's your fuel mileage your seeing?
21-22 avg. will be 26-27 if I go 60 but drops to 21 if I cruise 80. My truck is the AT4 with longer bed and big tow mirrors.
Thank you for informing me of my flawed decision. It very well may be a design flaw, but it is not a failure yet. Time will tell. I am not a guy to keep trucks for 15 years. At 120-150000 miles I will sell the truck and get a new truck. Enjoying the fuel savings now and 500plus mile range. My old 5.3 had a 300 mile range with a larger fuel tank.
@@johnyancey1928 Im considering buying a SLT AT4 with the 3.0 Diesel engine. Have you towed with yours and how did it handle?
Same. New in sept 2020. 20000 mi no issues. 30mpg average so far.
Love mine overload it and it still rolls doesn't get hot. Best MPG of any truck I have owned. Cold start no problem. And a blast to drive
I'm buying a new truck what do you think about the 3.0 diesel anything that stands out for you?
Sounds like John is willing to put in polymer shafts inside the engine as long as it is submersed in oil--As long as it needs to be replaced past warranty.
Hey at least my belt was still good when they just replaced my engine.it started knocking at 2,500 miles.5 and 6 pistons and the block bore was already messed up and pushing oil thru the cylinders.17 grand I didn't have to pay for.lets hope the new engine lasts longer than 6 weeks
Wow. That's some poop luck!
What are you driving the 3.0?
Not after the second one started ratlling,trade for a 6.6 Duramax 2022 a few months ago,way worse fuel mileage like 7 worse average
Yikes. Had no idea. Get the alignment wrong and it will shred itself without you knowing. Also time to update the used oil analysis to account for rubber crumbs....
Chris Browne Blackstone labs will have to add a line for belt material to their UOA list.
Funny!!!
9:35. It is what it is. Tells you all you need to know about the design of the oil pump belt.
One might also look at the coolers and stuff on the front of the engine... Getting to the back is actually a lot easier. Its not ideal but its not the worst idea ever, if it is serviced its not leaving anyone stranded.
A variable oil pump makes sense on a high revving engine, but not a diesel that might rev to 5,000 rpms. Why not just go with a traditional gear driven pump?
Because they can sell a belt replacement on a gear driven pump.
Two reasons. 1) Manufacturers are moving to vane-style oil pumps that are able to deliver higher oil flow rates at high pressure. This means that just like hydraulic fluid pumps in various industrial equipment,, these oil pumps have a distinct whine to them. The only way to suppress that noise is move the oil pump off of the crank snout and down into the oil pan.
2) Positioning the oil pump at the front of the engine on the crank snout was actually always partly due to cost-saving move with the downside than it can negatively affect cold weather performance. It takes a pump mounted down in the oil pan less time to deliver oil everywhere in the engine during very cold weather. Mounting it down in the oil also reduces tendency of the pump to experience cavitation. Lots of manufacturers are adopting vane-style pumps in both their engines and transmissions and are mounting them down in the oil they are pumping.
I know what a diesel engine is. It is dependable, economical, powerful, and easy to maintain. Engineers need to stick to these simple things.
I am sure engineers would love to do that, but then regulators come, and nothing is simple anymore.
Emissions ended that. That’s why this diesels have complex systems. It is ridiculous.
Thank God for my Cummins 12 valve.
Same!
Followed by the 7.3
Yessir not this garbage
The 5.9 was also great but it had same or similar service life as this 3.0 so it's not unreasonable
Glad i dont have tractor/excavator engine in my car.
GM has been refining the art of PPE for years!! ( piss poor engineering)
sounds like a real coat hanger original
To be honest I think most of the big 3 have worked towards making sure it all makes it just out of warranty then breaks. tho gm still just waxes their frames and axles instead of painting.
At least Ford has their Death Wobble thing going on...
@@ziggarot Dodge shares it too last I knew
What about the Ford Chevy transmission? That lasted long.
Fast forward a few years and just about everybody loves the engine and the belt really isn't a big deal. So much so the service interval was revised to 200k miles. Aside from an oil consumption issue that was identified as being caused by a valve cover issue with a supplier, the engine has been one of the better engine options out there. Particularly compared to new engines from other manufacturers.... like the new TT V6 in the 3rd gen Tundra that's blowing up left and right.
If the oil pump were to go, you'd have bigger problems then engine overheat...crank bearings don't last long without oil.
No oil pump you have approximately five seconds before the bearings will crater. Warning bells and whistle‘s won’t mean a thing once the bearings get pounded Within seconds of a lack of oil pressure, there is no gauge that can shut it down in time. Which raises another question, why could they not build an automatic shut off the moment the old pressure stopped? On any start up cold, allow the engine to idle only for five seconds to get oil pressure up, if it is under any sort of load you can kiss those bearings gone long before you see it engine warning lights to stop it. No one addressed exactly how much it would cost in shop time to replace that belt if there was no difficulties. HORRIBLE DESIGN!!
With today’s oil technology, I’d hope it takes more than a few seconds to damage the engine under a belt failure. Besides that, bells and whistles should be going off almost instantaneously to let you know to pull over.
@@cecillambert1092 because if the engine shuts off you lose power steering and brakes. If belt broke at the wrong time it would endanger driver and passenger
@@jimbo5635 so you have to decide between your family's life and engine.🤦
I like how he says you will be warned when it breaks with signs of overheating so if you pull off the road in time it wont be catastrophic LOL.
We should all bookmark this video, if anything catastrophic happens. The Video will display the don't worry attitude of GM. Could prove they are guilty of poor engineering and a coverup if the engine goes south on us.
@@MC-yb5le Yep and if it really lasts 150,000 I would just change the oil pump belt when the transmission craps out which for a GM is about 100,000 if you're lucky.
Thanks. That was very informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Seems to me that the belt was a trade-off to allow for installation in the Silverado due to length. None the less he engine design engineer seems to be forthcoming about their (design team) decision to utilize a belt vs a chain. Likely a good choice on their part.
Comments are about to blow up again.
Oh yeah! 😂
Quality video Tim. Was interested to hear about the cooling on the low pressure EGR. The cone of soot I would clean off my 2016 EcoDiesel MAP sensor every 6 months was pretty impressive. Hard to believe high pressure EGR is designed to run that dirty. I like this new GM straight 6 but a much richer man can make the payments on one of those for now, it will be interesting to see how they hold up as the miles pile on and if there are any bugs to work out. I'll stick to feeding all the fuel to the Hemi for now.
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Thanks for not being a tool like most here on youtube pissing on other brands, I also worked for Ram and Ford.
Honestly I think they made a lot of great decisions on this engine. The question is will all the added options to raise prefomance and efficiency hold up into the high mileage. I would put money down on a truck like this. I just want to know I can comfortably get 8-10 years out of it with a bit of maintenance.
You will for sure get more then 10 years out of any decent built diesel engine...... More the fact I would like to upgrade before then but each to there own 👍
I’m sure you tube will have a video on how to change. Time will tell. I remember when Harley had a similar issue with the cam chain tensioner, I was able to change thank goodness but not sure about this. I wonder how many hours and the cost. I have a new Denali ordered that will be here next month, I’m glad I saw this, I will be negotiating something.
"What you are looking at" is a multi-thousand dollar scheduled "maintenance" on an old vehicle
More like $800. As others have commented, it is 8 hours of work at $80-100 an hour.
@@Pickuptrucktalk plus parts, fluids, broken fasteners, etc. The engine started as a clean sheet of paper, there is no excuse for this piss poor "engineering" Been a GM guy my entire life, have a degree in mechanical engineering. Been dreaming of a diesel half ton forever, GM had a great engine designed in the baby duramax. It's exterior dimensions would let it fit anywhere a gas ls based V8 fits. They put that on the shelf, and release this POS????
I wouldn't touch one of these with a 10' pole.
@@ACatKrom lol I know mechanical engineers who couldn’t change a tire your pencil pushing degree means nothing.
@@RN-fx3zl truth hurting your sensitive vag I see
The belt doesn't bother me, its the DPF, SCR and active coolant management that does.
If you truly understood an emissions system it wouldn’t bother you
DPF stuff is getting better, & easy to fix. The belt driven oil pump won’t last past the warranty if you’re lucky. I think there’s gonna be a recall from GM abt this later on.
Someone needs to come out w a kit to convert the belt drive to chain drive. They need to back to gear drive
Unfortunately we're talking about GM products here. And I was a GM fan. But over the years GM has managed to over-complicate just about everything they've touched. And when they have gotten it right they cost reduced it until it doesn't work anymore. Lastly when they just can't screw up a good thing, they replace it with something that isn't good. Sadly, as much as I want to love GM, they generally leave me pounding my head into the wall.
Now, reading between the lines, there's a reasonable chance that this engine might be a pretty good 100.000 mile engine. But with all of it's complexity it's going to be a bear for the second or third owner. If I were looking for a truck with 150.000 miles on it, I certainly wouldn't buy one that's due for a trans out service. Moreover, if I were selling a truck with that mileage, I wouldn't be doing that service to sell it. Now, I know that GM normally doesn't care about the second or third owners, but they aren't taking into account how badly the first owners are getting screwed when they try to sell their trucks and would otherwise expect to use that money for a down payment on a new truck.
Lastly, most people don't realize that every machine is designed with a MTBF, or basically how long before it generally fails. Usually every component in the machine is designed to have the same life span. Therefore if the oil pump belt is designed for 150,000 miles, you can pretty much bet that's the same lifespan for the turbo, the head gaskets etc. I've spent my life working on older and even antique cars and I can tell you that it's often surprising just how many components fail at or around the same time. You fix one thing and the next one breaks. Your old reliable family car suddenly turns into a black hole of constant repairs literally overnight.
So, I think what I"m hearing is that this engine and the vehicles it's going into are designed to last up to 150,000 miles without heroic effort. And that would be pretty decent for a modern GM vehicle. But when you consider that some of the competition is designing vehicles to go twice as far and are going to have a much higher resale value, this becomes just another GM in a long line of disappointments.
By the way I don't blame the engineers. I have a friend who's a senior design engineer. When he's tasked with designing a machine that will do half a million duty cycles at a certain price point... that's exactly what he will do. And if he can, he'll add a little margin for what he calls customer satisfaction. Customers like machines that last longer than advertised, even if only a little bit longer. But if he's tasked with designing a machine that needs to do ten million duty cycles for a top tier client, that's exactly what he will do too. Every machine we buy has a designed MTBF. And what car companies don't realize is that when one of their products craps out at 45,000 or 60,000 miles it's all over the internet before the vehicle has even been towed into the shop. But they also don't seem to realize that every car that hits 300,000 sells at least another 10 to 100 cars for them without an additional cent spent in advertising. That's why Toyota is doing so well in the internet age. Scotty Kilmer's old 94 Toyota has probably sold more Toyotas worldwide than half the dealerships in Texas combined. Why isn't he driving a trouble free GM with 240,000 miles? Yup.. that's right... GM didn't think it was a good idea to build one.
I want to buy another GM some day... But first GM has to design something to last, build it with quality components, stop cost reducing everything that works until it doesn't and prove that they can compete on price. It's not that hard, in fact it's something they should have been doing all along. And by the way, I'm old enough to remember the Oldsmobile diesels and I saw lots of them that survived their warranty periods... in junk yards shortly thereafter. And I know lots of people that never bought another GM again.
Sorry for the rant... I've been watching GM go down hill for a long time.. as an American who's always driven American cars, I'll morn GM's inevitable demise... Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall; who's next?
Trust me, Ford is leaving me the same way.
All the modern vehicles(everything on the retail market actually) is being designed to fail sooner and is still costing more and more. What is the breaking point going to be for the consumer?
It’s not just gm on declining reliability. It’s most of the manufacturers
@@davidleeosbourne2727 agreed...all of them have taken this stance....some abetater than others but all in one downhill movement.....and they act like they care about being green
@@davidleeosbourne2727 As a kid back in the 1970's I did lots of car repairs on lots of cars. And not a lot of cars ran for over 100,000 miles without heroic effort. Now parts were cheap as were repairs, but cars were definitely less reliable overall. Many modern cars regularly last for over 200,000 miles these days without heroic effort.
A friend argues that GM didn't get worse, they just didn't get better with everyone else, which might be true except the cost of parts and repairs have gone up so much that the cost of the repairs is just more painful now.... but either way everything wrong with GM is their own fault.
And perhaps, you might be right, certain other manufacturers are slacking off on quality too. Customers are often blinded by cool new features and aren't looking under the hood to see where actual costs have been cut.
Awesome, Just bought one yesterday.
Your vehicle probably doing spooky things already, that's why you're here.
Takes the shine right off of that one!
Wonder how many of these people on here dissing this engine actually have a 3.0 liter duramax? I personally do have one and absolutely love it so far. We’ll see what happens with the motor as I put on 50k-60k a year.
For A DIESEL IT SHOULD BE OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND A YEAR THE ENGINE IS NOT BUILT FOR PUTTERING AROUND TOWN DIESELS ARE BETTER AS A CONSTANT USE VEHICLE THEY RUN OFF HIGH COMPRESION WITH NATURALLY PRODUCES HEAT WITH OUT A TURBO THERE UNDER POWERD GENERAL MOTER HAS A CRAPPY RECORD WITH TURBOS GO GET SOMTHING WITH A CUMMINGS DONT WAST YOUR MONEY ON ANY THING FROM GENERAL MOTORS THE QUALITY IS NOT THERE
Get back with us when that oilpump belt needs replaced or you go to trade it in in 5 years and get offerd 2000$ by the dealer because it needs 8000$ in maintenance and people avoid it like the plauge so the resale is like that of a northstar caddy.
You may do very well highway mileage diesels do very well , in fact same for gasoline really.
It should have never been approved! To be forced to remove a major component to service a relatively minor maintenance item is the height of ignorance on the part of GM. It's a big kick in the nads to the people who can and prefer to perform their own maintenance. If you're reading this JOHN, fix it.
packaging always trumps ease of maintenance, so no, it is absolutely not an ignorance on GM's part, especially a minimum 150k mile part. And why do they care about the people who want to do it themselves? if anything doing it this way forces some to bring it in to the dealer to have it done, so they make even more money, it's a win win.
Also, I'd take dropping the transmission over removing engine stuff. The Nissan vq37's water pump is inside the timing cover driven by the timing chain, requiring you to remove the front end, rad, all accessories, oil pan, then cover. Also, many Audi, Jaguar Land Rover, and I'm sure many more have the whole timing on the rear of the engine requiring to drop the engine. Also, every single clutch job.
It’s a lot easier to remove trany than remove all the bs on the front and top of an engine and beside if your any kind of a mechanic it’s easy peasy compared to removeing the body on Fords just for simple maintenance now that’s a bitch
Welcome to being a design engineer when you dont get to make the final decisions. Hopefully they can get 250k out of future belts
I'd rather hear a little more noise than deal with a maintenance requirement like that. They should have used a chain or gears. Thanks for the heads up to avoid this engine.
A belt in an oil bath is a really bad idea, no matter what G.M.'s bullshitter tells you.
I was an automobile mechanic for 12 years, then a licensed aircraft mechanic for 32 years. I'm telling you that a belt operating in oil is a really bad idea. Oil breaks down most materials over time, especially in an environment of heat and the combustion by products in the oil. That's why belts are never operated in an oil bath situation. Timing belts on other engines operate in an oil free environment. Also, sooner or later that wimpy chain(I've seen the pictures of it), is going to wear and stretch, and need replacing. Guess what there goes another chunk of money to pull the transmission and transfer case if yours is a 4x4. That engine will be a big money maker for the service department. The scenario is that they'll sell you the oil pump belt and new timing chain and components. You're looking at at least $400 labor, just to remove and install the tranny and transfer case. That doesn't include replacing the oil pump belt(I can't believe someone would come up with that idea), and timing components for the cams.
The other thing is that the engine uses cast pistons (hypereutectic but still cast), a really bad idea for a diesel engine. Mind you hypereutectic cast pistons are stronger than traditional cast pistons, but they're definitely NOT forged pistons, and forged pistons are the standard for diesel engines. One of the most common failure points on diesel engines is the pistons, and that's even with forged pistons.
NO...... you know what happened here ? The engine is an Opel design. G.M. owns Opel. So G.M. decided to cheap out and go with an already available engine from their European division, and adapt it to the American pickup truck line. And you know that's true, if you were listening to the engineer, because he mentioned them figuring out how to fit this engine in the pickup truck engine bay.
Some young guys who are gear heads and want more giddy-up from their 3.0 duramax are going to find out the real limit of those cast pistons too, by tuning that engine for a power bump.
As much money as they're getting for these machines, they should run for a million miles, without rusting away, like they do.
The service departments in car dealerships actually generate most of the income that keeps the dealership operating in the black. That's the way the business model works. So there's ALWAYS going to be maintenance that needs to be done, that the customer will pay for...... Could the manufacturer design something that completely trouble free ? The answer is yes.... Will they ? NO.
Wow the belt thing really got people upset. I’m a former Toyota owner and they don’t break down a lot but alternators on the bottom of the engine always bothered me a bit... So with the fuel savings the cost of a belt change would be about even,no? I’m surprised by all these fleet experts...thought fleets went with the v6 WT...My problem with this engine is cost. It’s a high premium and isn’t available in lower trims but that’s their right. I wouldn’t be surprised if they extend the service interval to 175k. The regular powertrain on even this engine is 100k. We will see. Good work Tim!
Even after watching this video, I am not concerned about the belt. I placed a deposit on a '21 SLT Duramax 4X4 X31 and should be here at the beginning of July. The way I see it, it will take me a very long time to reach 150K miles. As a matter of fact, I usually never keep a vehicle for that long with the exception of my '13 Grand Cherokee bought new in August of 2012 and only has 66k miles. I swear I am not a boring person that does not go anywhere, I do go places, I just have multiple cars. :) Can't wait to get my Sierra 1500.
Chevy just quoted me 2k to replace. I've done the math and I've saved 4k in fuel. Add the more expensive oil changes, fuel filter replacement, and cost of def and its pretty much a wash. Side note, I get 30 MPG. 100k mile powertrain warrantee on this truck and lifetime on a gas truck.
Really smart engineering there GM!!! Why couldnt the pump go in the pan where it belongs,like every other wet sump engine! Age will be a factor with this belt also,not just miles,so in ten years that thing will be like anything that is rubber.
exactly right, they say they tested them for 160-170k but not over time, impossible for them to know how they hold up over time, until 8-10 years from now,
@@davidjames5727 this POS is just going to be a way over priced throw away in 5 to 7 years hope you can get it played off before haveven to toss it like everything else GM
Exactly, you roast that belt inside a hot engine, bathed in hot oil and it's going to last "indefinitely?"...Mind if I laugh
Cummins Engineer: Our inline six engine makes everything easier to access and reduces maintenance costs.
GM Engineer: Hold Mah Belt!!!
Yeah, but Cummins engines are notorious for oil leaks. No thanks.
@@WBOS72 So what? Most oil leaks are not critical. There are million mile engines with oil leaks.
Shoemowetochawcawe they are no longer million mile engines, 350,000 max. At 200,000 they require major service, which includes new injectors.
@@WBOS72 I had two Cummins engines and zero oil leaks. Never even heard of that? Just sour grapes from a GM guy and I currently drive a GMC 2500 Savana 6.0.
@@craigcontofalsky4387 Cummins engines have never leaked oil, you cIown! Stop spreading BS!
If I was him I would have used the excuse that Honda uses the same wet belt idea but to drive the valve train . Difference is that’s a 500$ lawn mower not on a 70k+ suburban
Never heard of a cam timing belt on a car engine? You’re clueless. Do you know what happens when those let go? I’ll give you a bind - it’s worse than oil pressure loss.
Evidently you never heard of Honda v6 engines in literally millions of cars, since 1996 up to this day. Every single one of them uses a timing chain belt that must be replaced at 100K miles, and if you don't you will grenade the engine. Still, it's one of the most reliable engines on the planet (if you do the maintenance). As an aside, my sister has one with over 200K miles and she's never changed the belt. It has not broken yet.
R K if your sister is like mine, maintenance probably gets neglected. That 200k miles is probably like 300k on a well maintained vehicle.
Funny how the service interval is outside the warranty
This is pretty common. Just like your oil change interval goes outside of warranty too at some point...
Taylor Hall difference being I don’t have to drop the transmission to change my oil
@@JoeSchmoe7 It's a service that shouldn't have to be done. Diesels should use gears, period.
@@jellyfrosh9102 That wasn't his point. He said how it is outside of warranty. All I was saying is that lots of maintenance items on cars are outside of warranty... I am not debating that it is not a difficult to do - I have one of these trucks, but am not worried about 150,000 miles from now.
QUESTION - does Fuurd buy your cam-chains and turbos along with catalytic converters that FAIL at 150,000 miles???
what im hearing- This was the cheapest option we could come up with.
It’s sad though, a $50k+ truck and they try to save a few hundred bucks to purposely design a failure.
Ask any mechanic about trusting an engineer, They build to suit bean counters and designers.
My god it’s not much different from changing a accessory belt. Spoken like a true company man you literally have to drop the damn transmission to change it. Engineers need to give their heads a shake
Sounds like another future diesel engine discontinued in a few years.
They did things like that in the 60s GM took a gas engine and just changed the heads all of a sudden you have a Diesel. GM gave up on small cars may be they should give up on Diesel.
I have heard this engine will be discontinued after 2021 !
@@zonie1953 I don't think so, I think it has too much potential for them to give up on it that soon. I'm guessing they'll discontinue it around 2025
Sounds like hysterics or spread false information about something that is being taken so far out of context. What about the 'turbo v6 Fuurd' engines that EAT cam-chains plus turbos that fail..... That is a success to you then right?
@@jamessmith5535 anybody how buys this POS make sure you have your lemon layer in your back pocket
I like this guy ,gutsy coming on defending this abomination. Why is reinventing a 5.9L Cummins or a 3406 cat so hard. Two of the longest lasting engines on the planet .
I've got the 2020 3.0L duramax RST package and absolutely love it. I've only ever owned diesels.
Now my question, how much HP and Torque can it handle safely? I definitely want a S&B cold air intake, delete most of the emission bullshit including CAT which will change the exhaust, a solid tune, and Banks methanol/water (50/50) injection. And I'm sure a few other things without going internal.
Post videos when you do !! 🤜🏽🤛🏽
“It is what it is” is probably the greatest defense of any design I’ve ever heard lol I agree with him btw
As a diesel mechanic for 35 years at dealerships, I see a lot of potential issues with the design. Timing chains for cam with tensioner, Belt drive oil pump, flappers in the intake to increase flow, Let alone the Def. Doc and Dpf,
We can assume the def and other emissions systems aren't going away any time soon. But yeah this 3.0 is not an engine designed for long life
Can't wait to hear Scotty Kilmer's comments.
Scott "buy a Camry!" Kilmer
He’s a douche
@@someonethatwatchesyoutube2953 Let me take a wild guess ---- he ridiculed your car? A pile of rolling junk?
@@ve7yan Kilmer is a shill. He promotes crap that doesn't work. You shouldn't take most of his stuff seriously.
@@someonethatwatchesyoutube2953 I think he's awesome.
Hope you can invite him back for additional discussions. I recently purchased a 2020 Silverado 1500 3.0l Duramax. I’m very impressed with acceleration and everyday drivability and the fuel mileage. My biggest complaint is high DEF usage while towing. Understand DEF usage will go up with towing due to lower fuel mileage. However, I’m noticing an significant increase in DEF usage which will add significantly to operating costs when towing for long distances.
Iirc he covered this didn’t he?
Curious? Can you elaborate Dan S. on the DEF usage when towing, burns double or triple the DEF usage on a along trip? What is your gas mileage and trailer Gross weight to understand the big picture?
Good interview
Thanks!
in 1970 we bought a 1970 grand prix, 400 cid , great car, fast and fun to drive, they put nylon timing gears along with a metal timing chain, saying it did not make as much noise, the car at idle in our driveway would rattle the house windows, the dual mufflers were so loud, the gears failed at 90000 miles
It looks like they brought back the engineer that designed the 4, 6, 8 Cadillac engine.
I am an advocate for modern technology and i’m a current Chevy owner in the market for a new truck...but common, an oil bathed belt that requires removal of the trans and t-case to service ever 150k.. no freakin’ way would I ever buy! Sorry GM, you screwed up this one :(
lancasterlooter I’m sure the transmission has been designed to fail around that time.
Not oil bathed
Ram has been having some issues out of their new 1500 rams which stopped me from nearly buying one and f150's are just too high for what I want I can add a few grand and get a f250.
No U the 6.2 is pretty tried and true. That is the way I would go too.
I know, my fam are tundra and tacomas ... i wanted to show off with a new denali duramax.. but yeah I cant throw $70 and a month $600-1200. I test a couple and the bed multi is a plus and 360 view and side steps are also bonus... sadly, imma go see how tundra feel because my daily is put putting on me:/
I've never owned a diesel but my dad owned a 94 Toyota hilux diesel 4x4 :]
Hey there. New to the channel. I like that you get info "Straight From The Horses Mouth" so to speak. I would like to see a in depth video similar to this discussing oils, the latest ratings & what makes them so special. Then I would like for them to explain the oil spec approval process. More & more with the late model diesels it seems like we are pigeon holed to go with 1 brand of oil. Not a lot of options. Many feel like this is big corporations way to ring the consumer yet again. Many of us want to maintain our vehicles, but we want options to do so.
Thanks for the video & hope to hear back from you...
That's an interesting thought on oil. I'll see what I can dig up.
Been doing quite a bit of research and read the Duramax forums. It’d be interesting to hear his take on the the long crank times that some users are reporting. (I’m guessing he won’t; in his defence, GM is probably figuring out how to address the issues).
But totally understand the trade-off aspects. Anyone who’s worked in ships/submarines knows this well! One pro can lead to a few con’s, lol!
I’d like to know what GM warranty time is to replace the belt.. add 30 percent will be real world on an 8 yr old salt belt truck... this belt and the diesel emissions system negates any savings you would get by having the diesel in the first place. With there gas offerings having great fuel economy and the LS/LT based engines being known for longevity, it makes no sense to buy the Duramax. My guess is it’s going to be a minimum of 1250.00 to get the belt done, and by the. You’ll want to add 400.00 to that for new trans cooler lines,,transfer case out out seal and fluid , and exhaust studs and nuts if the exhaust needs to be disconnected .He acts like it’s anot a big deal to lose total oil pressure,as if it’s not catastrophic.... if you don’t get it shut down within 10 seconds say bye bye to the lower end and turbo!
don't forget the DPF filter that clogs up and creates back pressure basically putting any diesel truck into LIMP mode I'M LOOKING AT YOU NISSAN TITAN CUMMINS
So.whem my trans goes out at 115k i know that i have to change my belt also...
Change the fluid like the service schedule said to and you wouldn't have to worry about that. But we can only expect so much from people with room temperature IQ's.
Thumbs up for making the vid, not for the stupid belt
Damn just as the 2021 Silverado 3.0 diesel 4x4 crew cab entered the chat for me.. guess it’ll be the 5.3... in my thirty’s just looking for something that will do what I need it to do and last..
I was considering a Ranger, then I saw one of these - no contest, locally the LT is within $6K, tows much more, runs on cheaper fuel and gets better mileage. Oh yeah, and you have room. I'm looking at towing a 6,000 lb trailer which the Ranger can do, but the Silverado can do it with much less effort, so it will last longer.
I used to work at a transmission shop many years ago. I was the R and R ( remove and replace ) guy. I use to be able remove a transmission in 35 minutes and replace it in 25 minutes. With that be said there is a good reason why they put in the rear of the motor then the front. Its easier to get to the belt from the rear then the front of the motor.
I own dozens of diesels of every brand, in our fleet. Chevy Silverado, with 30,000 miles on my 3.0 diesel and looking to buy another one soon.
Wish you would discuss the regeneration process and how it will effect the average Tahoe /0wner .
For some perspective; Harley Davidson put a drive belt on their bikes that is EXPOSED to the elements, and people rave about the life span and smoothness. I don't like the service this belt will require, but drive belt technology has come a LONG way. Someone else said, and I agree, the transmission will most likely need rebuilt by the time the belt is due. Just do it then.
150,000 transmission rebuilds?
Is there going to be a extended warranty on the belt or is he just blowing 💨
I'm guessing there's a good reason why they don't use an electric oil pump. Too much pressure/volume/power required perhaps? But it seems like de-coupling the oil pump from the engine itself might solve the space problems. Any thoughts?
Wow just wow!
Should have gotten the GM labor op with the factory book time to replace the belt. I bet its close to 8 hrs on the 4x4.
7.9 hours.
absolutely as you have to deal with the transfer case....the guy didn't mention that
And most people buy a 4x4, even if they don’t need it.
The fuel saved by the variable pump doesn't offset the cost of labor to service the belt. What are they thinking?
GM dosent think, just put junk out is all they know
You can thank leftists fuel mileage requirements for them looking at every fraction of a gallon saved.
They’re thinking they will sell you a new truck before you need to do it. Your 5 year old truck will be obsolete by then.
Wouldnt you have to pull the drive shafts? The exhaust? Transfer case Then pull the transmission on the four wheel drive models?
Had one out for a test drive a few days ago, am I ever glad I walked away
I have the new 3.0l diesel in my Denali and love it.
Give time you will see how much you love it
I am considering getting a 2021 GMC AT Sierra SLT with this engine. Test drove it and was actually impressed with the quick acceleration and quiet engine. I plan on towing 7000lb boat and this internal oil pump has me more than a little concerned. Have you towed with your vehicle and any over temp issues?
Love my 2020 Silverado, drive 40 miles to work through mountains and get 27-30 mpg.
KEVIN MELCHER Does your truck happen to have a rattle noise coming from under the passenger side ??
"That is the design that we had to go with in order to package the engine ". Oh boy. My 96 f150 has a 300 CID straight 6 with timing gears. 250,000 trouble free miles so far.
Go to TK's Garage. He bought an 2020 Silverado and only got 145 miles on it before it overheated. They have him another one that that started running over 230 and the dealer told him that it was normal