How did Sauron corrupt the Númenoreans?
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- Опубліковано 24 лис 2024
- In this video, we look at the reasons why Sauron was able to corrupt the Numenoreans so quickly, which ultimately led them to their doom.
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Because he pulled the Numenorean USB flash drive out the computer before safely ejecting the device first.
He told them they didn't have to turn their car off at the gas pump
The forced resettling of the Faithful to the eastern shores of Numenor (to stop them from secretly receiving Elvish visitors from Tol Eressea and keep them under closer watch) is another instance of an evil deed leading to unintentional good: It put the Faithful and their ships far away from Pharazon's final great armament, and allowed them to escape the giant chasm that opened up in the ocean floor west of Numenor.
They were already at the cliff edge and Sauron gave them a light shove.
His role was catalytic you could say.
Horrific though it was the destruction of Numenor was probably beneficial for ME.
Sauron’s key strength lies in his patience, something morgoth do not have. How he rule the numenoreans behind the throne shows how great his strength of character is.
I'd argue Morgoth can be patient too. He's waited thousands of years at different points in the worlds history so we can't say he isn't patient. The difference between Morgoth and Sauron is more that Morgoth continually uses brute force (Orcs, Dragons, Balrogs, Spiders, etc) to get to meet his ends. Whereas Sauron is a master manipulator and uses tactics to get what he wants. Morgoth could never let someone else appear to be greater than he is (and rightly so I guess because he is the greatest being aside from Eru), but Sauron has no problem doing that. It's a matter of ego I think.
@@DigitalSystematicmorgoth was definitely his own worst enemy
@@DigitalSystematicEgo is bs word made up in 19th century by dumb german that thinks that you have problems with your mother because you have dreamt about crashing bicycle into the tree or something. It is funny how humans are so similiar with monkeys, monkey do monkey repeats.
@@DigitalSystematic-Totally not Melkor
this really shows saurons hypocrisy, while he claimed to just want perfect order and saw himself as the good guy, once he had come so close to being able to achieve his goal, he just caused chaos simply because he wanted revenge.
It may be he realised he couldn't control The Numenoreans for ever.
Perhaps the next king wouldn't be his friend.
@@alanpennie8013I mean given his almost total controll over numenorian society he could just coup this king and replace him with a puppet
Sauron also convinced them they could gain power to create their own worlds for infinite exploration and expansion- secondary but still important yet overlooked
The Sauron has effectively made himself the (immortal) king of Numenor and could have used that position to conquer the world but was too interested in spiting the man who beat him is a great point. "Oft evil will shall evil mar."
Makes you wonder how Sauron's plans would have panned out if the Numenoreans had tried to take the Ring from him against his will.
The One Ring must have given Sauron a major advantage. It’s power of domination would have turned the tide. The fact that it took Sauron fifty years to turn Númenor to Melkorism, it wasn’t just his knowledge on their fear of death and their pride.
The One Ring is never stated as being the primary means of which Sauron ensnared the Nùmenoreans, turning them from his greatest foes to almost being vassals. But since this isn’t from the POV of Sauron, we can assume the One Ring was a main cause. How else would they go from making him a prisoner to a priest of a cult? Sauron’s master of the Rings power of domination is truly terrifying.
Tolkien actually says in his letters that One Ring was instrumental in his success at Numenor so you are correct
He offered them cookies, just like any good Dark Lord.
One of your best videos in my opinion.
However I disagree that Tolkien didn’t really intend to say anything with the downfall of Numenor. The folly of Numenor is a great story that can teach us lessons about our world. Fearing death to the extent that you cling onto every year desperately is something many advanced societies throughout history have fallen into. The best example being in 221 Bc when the first emperor of China slaughtered the old Confucian order and embarked on a humanist legalist project that rejected the gods and sought to bring immortality to earth.
Numenor is this natural folly of mankind’s fears pushed to the extreme. It is a society where they’ve been given explicit power and gifts from the gods over other men, making them incredibly arrogant and racist, with a high superiority complex and no humility. They also became the sole superpower of the world, and had no countermeasures once they abandoned Eru to hold themselves to any moral standards whatsoever. They became so safe and powerful that they fell to absolute hedonism and degeneracy, enslaving and slaughtering other men for their enjoyment. However, even with all that splendor and comfort, they found themselves lesser than ever without Eru, as they abandoned him in their lust to become gods themselves.
Numenor was likely inevitably going to turn on the Valar given its path. Sauron simply sped it up. The kindling for the fire Sauron brought was already there for centuries.
And the downfall of Numenor serves as a wise fable and cautionary tale for humanity in our world.
I don’t think the tale of numenor is an ode against racism lol. Tolkien was very much writing in the vein of classical literature and the concept of racism is an extremely new and distinctly modern one.
I don’t think numenorians, once they turned evil, enslaved other peoples due to “racism” (in the parlance you mean it). It was simply due to the fact that they were more powerful and had lost their former moral restraint as it pertained to how they treated other peoples.
@@nevilleslightlylargerbotto1726 Yeah you’re right. I just didn’t really know a better word to use. They developed a “superiority complex,” towards other men, I suppose is a better term.
Based on the actions and beliefs of the Unfaithful Numenoreans, your use of racism fits and makes sense. Race can and has been used to refer to nationalities, ethnicities, cultures, and sub-groups of a species. So, again, your use of racism to describe Numenorean behavior makes sense. (Racism - 1. a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that *racial differences produce an inherent superiority* of a particular race,
2. the *systemic oppression of a racial group* to the *social, economic, and political advantage of another*
3. a *political or social system founded on racism* and designed to execute its principles ~ Merriam-Webster). I enjoyed reading your commentary.@@DarthHoosier3038
@@Sol-Amar Thanks dude.
@@DarthHoosier3038 Yep! 👍
Sauron never imagined Ilúvatar would destroy all of Númenor because it was so corrupt. He would have been better off getting Ar-Pharazôn to attack Middle-Earth and the Elves there. Over time, he could have reduced the king of Númenor to a mere figurehead and eventually taken over that way.
Just found out about the passage of the Lost Road where we see Numenor being destroyed by the perspective of Lowdhan, which returned back in time in the mind and body of Elendil, Tolkien's mind was truly fascinating
As the lord Darth Gandalf uploads, me and my cats are ready to watch! So say I, king Berúthion
Ar-Pharazôn was always the character I identified with the most. He was never given the throne, but he was strong and brave, he took it. He did not know whether or not the Valar can give him eternal life, but they were his only chance, and he took it, placing everything on the stake.
We need to see a series on this or 3 amazing films portraying this.
I know we have the Rings Of Power but I don’t think we have any idea how bad that show is when it comes to telling this story.
It honestly makes me upset.
It’s always a good day when you upload
Quick question, how come your channel links to a twitter user with a Slovenian (or Croatian) name? Do you have ancestry from the area? In that case hi from Croatia lol
I've heard some people speculate that Sauron left the One Ring behind in Mordor when he went to Numenor, but I don't know if this has any basis in Tolkien's writing. On the one hand it's tempting to say that the Ring remaining safe in Mordor helped Sauron survive Numenor's destruction. But one could also make the case that the Ring could only be destroyed in the fires of Orodruin and thus protected Sauron. There's also the question of whether Sauron could will even himself to part with the Ring, even temporarily
Well according to tRoP script writers: Ar Pharazon was mad at the prospect of elves taking numarorean jobs
Like elves would need jobs on Numenor. That was one of the most pathetically stupid things.
Sounds like Sauron was the OG Wormtongue! And a little more successful at it. :)
They were standing over an abyss and Sauron just told them to make a step ahead.
He really didn't have to do much.
Really The Valar were at fault in setting up this disaster. It might have been even worse if The Numenoreans had continued to tyrannise over ME.
Whispering sweet nothings into the numenorean king's ear ala grippa wormtongue but with more pride and hubris than puppetry.
Great analysis 👍
Aside question: there is one major war in Middle Earth that you missed in your series, the very first one, the War of the Powers! Any chance we'll ever get an addendum on it? 🙂
Sauron was an idiot. He should have given a ring of power to the king.
Yep.
And told him to stay well away from Valinor.
Oh well what happened makes for a better story.
I freaking love these. I have a bad back and just listening to your take on Tolkien is fantastic. What they really could do….
Maybe the valar should have sent this gandalf dude to numenor after they started to resent them.
Hi Darth!
Sauron is so cool!
Galadriel and Gandalf seem to be able to wear their rings without other people seeing them, if they wish. I’m sure Sauron can do the same.
No doubt about this
Odd. The published Akallabeth says that after the downfall of Numenor, Sauron's spirit returned to Mordor, where he crafted a new body and then took up the one ring again.
I've always assumed that that meant he had left the ring behind in Baradur when he surrendered to Al-Pharazon.
I *thought* it actually said that explicitly, but i couldn't find it when i looked just now.
I had long thought that myself. It might just have meant that, in his pure spirit form, he lacked hands and fingers with which to truly wear the Ring. Only after he'd fashioned a new body could he truly wear the Ring again.
@@TheMarcHicks
Tolkien had created a narrative problem for himself.
Video idea; Middle-Earth Mysteries The Last Desert.
Maybe he introduced them to Phase Connect.
The train now approaching platform 2 is for Edgware
Good video thanks 🙃
What you fear you draw near
Suffice to say he was experiencing pros of creating a mind-dominating ring which he poured most of his power at.
He can only dominate other ringbearers with the One Ring though. It's not a ring-shaped hypnotoad.
@@shiroamakusa8075 That’s a common misconception. One Ring didn’t simply dominate the users of the other rings but it increased Sauron’s mental power over all, be it beasts, orcs and men. Tolkien addresses this in his letters, saying One Ring would be very useful for Sauron to corrupt Numenor. It didn’t dominate them the way he dominated the other ringbearers, for this was complete, but it influenced them to the point of affecting their senses on god like levels of mental pressure
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 Agreed. The One Ring was at its most potent when used to control those who had other Rings of Power; it's why he originally planned to use them to control the Elves of Middle-Earth. But Sauron could use the Ring to dominate others and he could even dominate many beings, such as Orcs, completely on his own.
@@istari0 And not on a small scale either. After the Ring is destroyed the effects of it is easily seen. Hundreds of thousands of orcs simply killed themselves for no reason. Sauron’s will was controlling or dominating them all subtely by magical means of domination. Tolkien says Sauron could still draw power from his Ring even when it was not pyshically present, which leads us to assume that such level of domination was the result of the Ring itself. Its sad how most people can’t see such things when it is the entire plot of the book.
Not to mention Sauron effectively controlled Numenor, an island of 15 million people with enhanced senses. There is a reason why Sauron’s power was primarily over minds and wills of others ( as Tolkien himself stated )
Wow imagine if the Rings of Power TV show followed this plot with its details? Would have been amazing!
He put on a blonde wig and a pair of Spock ears hahaha
ever seen a bald valar? he told ar-pharazon that the valar are withholding nice wigs from them. the declining hairline of the aging pharazon did the rest
he had the one ring baby.
23rd ruler of numenor sounds like great man. Good that he didnt become slave of Eru and his pawns like his predescesors.
Imagine if Sauron had been taken Prisoner to the Undyning Lands instead to Numenor
Following Tolkien's writings, Numenor started a down ward spiral. Wanting eternal life, not being able to visit the Undying lands. Sauron, when captured, played on these things, and found many ears for his curruption!
Sauron:I want Númenor gone
Eru Iluvatar: I just CTRL + Z'd Númenor
Sauron: No, NOT LIKE THAT
You get what you want Sauron.
But not necessarily in the way you wanted it.
@@alanpennie8013 Sauron got way more than he bargained for 😁
I feel that Sauron also just used fame and name of Melkor for his personal gain, just like Eru Illuvatar and his pawns. But still Sauron was less of a bitch than Eru and his puppets. Both Eru with his pawns and Sauron used fear of death for control of the men. Sauron knew that it was bs but told the men that Melkor would grant them immortality etc, but Melkor wouldn't do it and Melkor would not tell them that.
I have an unrelated but burning question for you mighty Lord Mithrandir of the Force Lightning. Is it conceivable that Teleporno ever met Tata? Was the birth of the Teleporno before the Great Journey? Might Tata have instructed Teleporno in his early days, even from afar since they were of different clans?
I've always been a bit fuzzy on how the Numenoreans ended up being taller/fairer/wiser/longer-lived than the other men of Middle Earth? I get that the direct descendents of Elros were special, having some elven blood (and a tiny little bit of Maia blood if you go back far enough to Melian) but all the other Numenoreans were just generic men of Beleriand who were gifted a new home when Beleriand was destroyed, no? Does just *knowing* elves make you live longer and look prettier? How does knowing elves make you taller or wiser? And then as they started hating elves they stopped living as long? It feels like there's a missing piece here, like were the elves giving the Numenoreans lembas bread or something that supercharged their bodies?
I’d love to see the downfall of Numenor on the big screen done by a competent director unlike the garbage we’re getting from the Rings of Power
In your opinion, what do you think would have happened if, instead of taking Sauron prisoner, Ar-Pharazôn had decided to destroy his physical form and take the One Ring for himself? Or would it have been impossible for Ar-Pharazôn to get hold of the One Ring?
He couldn't even see it. Besides think about it how proud Ar-Pharazon was, he didn't need any kind of trinket to take Sauron as a hostage. Most powerful force in Middle Earth possibly ever.
I ask my self, did the numenorians not know about the ring? And how did Sauron knew that they didn‘t know abour the ring? Would have been funny, when Sauros thoght that they didn‘t knew about the ring, but they did indeed knew about it and took it from Sauron. Or why the elvs did not tell the King about the ring? Sure ar Pharazon would like to knew that his prisonor had a powerful objekt in his possession.
At the time of Ar Pharazon relations between Numenorians and Elves had been soured since like 1400 - 1500 years. The Numenorians began to change pretty much right after they had reinforced the Elves in the War between Elves and Sauron in 1700 - only seven years after the Elves themselves found out about the rings and hid the Three. And 500 years after said war, the Numenorians were already at the point of forbidding the Elven language in Numenor - which was probably a pretty rapid deterioration of things from an Elven point of view.
So, why would they have felt obliged to trust any Numenorian king with what was something of an Elvish state secret only a select few about?
As a sidenote: I doubt the majority of the Elves still remaining in Middle Earth and also the Numenorians could actually see his ring. Isn't it more likely that actually only those who had lived in Valinor (the Noldor, Istari), other ring bearers and people who got stabbed by a Morgul blade could see them (if the wearer wished to hide his/ her ring) because they are the only beings in Middle Earth that can see into the Unseen?
Numenor was pretty far gone by the time Ar-Pharazon brought Sauron back as a "Prisoner." A shadow had been growing since even before Tar-Ciryatan took the Throne in 1869 of the Second Age. At least Ciryatan yielded the Sceptre on his own Accord. Tar-Atanamir openly questioned the ban of the Valar and infamously clung on to power and life until Death came for him. During Tar-Ancallimon's reign, the Numenoreans splintered into the King's Men and the Faithful, and the Nazgul appeared. Three of which were said to be Great Lords of Numenor. Ar-Andunakhor and Ar-Gimilzor might have locked in Numenor's decline. The only things Ar-Gimilzor did right was marry one of the Faithful, allow his Eldest Son to take the Sceptre, and remove the Faithful from Anduie to Romenna, which allowed them to escape the Downfall. Now without Sauron coming to Numenor, I don't know if the Numenoreans would have sailed West, I really doubt it.
Does anyone know where the other 16 rings were during this time?
The Nazgul were already active for quite a while at this point, so the 9 are accounted for. And I would also assume the 7 were already in the posession of the dwarves.
@@inczekrisztian2648 Yeah... because Pharazon got word that Numenorean settlements were being attacked by Nazgul. Then he sends a thousand ships to Umbar.
Pride is indeed the worst sin.
Becouse he showed them his ankles
Like a wolf in sheep's clothing
Sauron didnt, galadriel did. Sauron only wanted peace, and a good life. Galadriel is the real villain.
He promised them tax cuts
th*
He wore a wig?
He's a shape shifter
If u mean Sauron
Peer pressure.
Yo guys! i just came to say i did nothing wrong!
Credit card debt.
Damn Sauron told the truth about Eru Illuvatar. Thats what he really was - a lie. He did exist but he was just liar. Melkor was the only of the entities that was really powerful, he was betrayed.
i dont think that he "corrupted" them. After all gondorians were supposed to be "good" numeroians and they have commited ATLEAST 2 genocides from the little i have seen: 1. angmar
2. genocide of almost all of orcish population in mordor after one ring was desteoyed. Women and children were murdered, no mercy was given, women and children weren't capable of defending themselfs.