Why I use Scene Referred Workflow in darktable 3.6.1 (vs Display Referred Workflow)!
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Darktable allows you to work in two color spaces. One is display referred, the other is scene referred. My name is Rico Richardson, and in this video, I'm going to take you through the differences and help you better understand these workflows.
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LINKS MENTIONED IN THE VIDEO:
Filmriot:
www.filmriot.c...
In depth explanation:
ninedegreesbel...
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Yet another reason DT rocks over LR. I believe this is the vid I will share with DT newcomers. And your clarity is why I send people to your vids about DT. Even if LR was free I would still use DT and you are one of the reasons I am able to maneuver through it so efficiently. THANK YOU!
Thank you Randall, these kind words are much appreciated!
Wrong, all of the big players work inherently in something akin to the scene referenced workflow - in a large colorspace with a well defined transition to a display. If DT ever has limited it's workflow to a small colorspace such as sRGB then it was a bad program to begin with. Lightroom works in ProPhotoRGB (well a variation thereof). You are spreading false information that LR is in any way using "scene display"...
@@k.g.wuensch9998 Glad to see I'm not alone with my thoughts on this totally stupid and pointless argument !
Wow. That was the shortest, most concise explanation I have seen on it. Nice job.
Thank you Charles, I appreciate it. Welcome to my channel!
Thank you Rico! Always great content! I have been using Scene-Referred Workflow in Darktable because it was recommended, but I never really knew the details and difference between scene and display-referred workflows. Your explanation made it easier to understand.
Awesome Osmumos!
This whole argument only arises when people are discussing DT! It's as if you are looking for an answer to a question NO ONE WAS ASKING.
Working in Lightroom, or even Raw Therapee, the entire workflow pipeline is carried out in ProPhotoRGB, thus keeping the maximum spread and value of colour variation captured by the sensor from the scene when shot.
Only at final output does the image get converted to a DEVICE dependent image - what you laughingly call 'display' referred.
And why does DT ship by default with a working space of Rec2020? That's a UHDTV SDR colour space!
Funny, I thought we were working with high bit depth stills camera raw files!!
Hey Andy! I like your DT vids also. I was/sort of am on the same page as you. It doesn't seem like this should make much of a difference since the working spaces in either case are large enough to cover everything. I'm not able to argue with, in my very, very limited experience so far, the results of DT in scene-referred workflow, but why there is such a difference isn't as obvious. I'm now off to do some further reading.
After the reads linked to by Rico, I think I've got it. As long as the working color-space is larger than your display space, and rec2020 is certainly that (though a P3 Apple display may just peak outside of rec2020 a smidge), it doesn't matter how much larger. ProPhoto would also be great. The point of the working space isn't that it is limiting the underlying data in any respect, but simply to get it to our display “in the meantime“ while we are pushing the non-truncated raw data. Of course there is no way to see it truly as it is, so it has to be in some sort of meaningful translation while we work, but it doesn't mean that the underlying data itself is clipped to the working space… if that makes sense...
@@Slave-Of-Christ 100% CORRECT! Lightroom/ACR works in ProPhotoRGB Gamma1.0 in the background, and MelissaRGB in the GUI/on screen (Melissa being ProPhoto with sRGB gamma) and this is set in stone unalterable by the user - Adobe worked all this shit out over 20 years ago, hence my comment about 'looking to answer a question no one is asking'....
All commercial raw developer apps follow this basic tenet, as does, to a great degree, Raw Therapee - DT is the only one that keeps this argument going, and frankly it pisses me off. The words SCENE and DISPLAY should be replaced by INPUT and OUTPUT, then it would make more sense.
@@AndyAstbury For whatever reason there certainly seems to be a lot of confusion. I feel much like you in regards to some things that people like to debate about that seem useless in practical terms. This idea of scene-referred vs. display-referred, however, has me intrigued. It's because to the degree that I understand things in a so called display-referred workflow-that which I'm used to for many years-it shouldn't be in any meaningful way inferior to scene-referred, at least not in theory. But that doesn't seem to be what some are saying, and coupling that with the pleasing results that I'm getting from my very contrasty images out of DT which I've not been able to get out of other raw editors, I'm open to the idea that I'm missing something and there really is a difference. It may just be that, miraculously, the workflow in DT jives with my way of tinkering and I've now got the tools that work for me and my way of making images. But my first impression of DT is that, indeed, I am getting something that no other raw editor (C1, ACR, Luminar, DXO, Iridient, On1…) can give me.
After editing an image in DT, I tried to duplicate the look in C1, which I'm better at using than any of my other editors. I immediately start from a linear response curve. I have a ton of room to work with the image. I eventually got the image very, very close, but it was a challenge. And I could not get as pleasing color in C1, which is known for its pleasing color. Even trying to tweak the blue sky to match the DT image, I just couldn't get it the same.
Shocking thing for me is, if I wasn't aware of what DT could do with that image, I would have taken the edit in another direction entirely, making it pleasing/acceptable for its purpose, but not nearly as nice as the DT version, to my taste anyway.
Bottom line at the moment, I don't see why or how scene-referred should give better results than a properly carried out display-referred workflow. But something in DT is making a big difference for me, and I'm curious if it is due to the scene-referred workflow.
Great intro into these two different workflows, without math complexity and reasoning what it is good for.
Thanks!
You're welcome Alexander and thank you for your comment!
Good point.
Thank you Behram! I appreciate it!
I think you might not have included the links that you mentioned???
Was looking for the same
Thank you Todd for once again reminding me that something is missing haha! I've just added them in the description. Just in case, here they are:
Links:
Filmriot:
www.filmriot.com/blog/scene-referred-vs-display-referred/
In depth explanation:
ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/display-referred-scene-referred.html
@@RicoResolves Hey you did all that research and prep it would be a shame not to share it fully as you intended....
That's why I'm happy you left a comment so I could fix it!
I still don't quite understand it. I never knew there was a difference.
Hey Brian, maybe the links in the description will be helpful for a further explanation. I've just added them!