Why NO ONE Plays: Swain | League of Legends
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- Опубліковано 13 січ 2025
- Having received multiple reiterations after his VGU, Swain has not been able to maintain solid footing in the meta for more than a patch or two at most. For today's Why NO ONE Plays, we'll be covering the Noxian Grand General to find out why.
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Hitting a Vision from across the map is so satisfying.
My favorite thing to do is pop W then go back to myself and if I see yellow on swain (conquerer activate) I smile haha
@@VarsVerum aerys 🥵
That little smirk u get when conq procs from halfway across the map @@VarsVerum
I remember hitting the enemy adc in mid from bot with W & rylei’s. It let my twitch mow her down while she was fleeing.
Or hitting w across the map and seeing the Russian Swain skin's little white owl fly to you ahhh
Problem with his ultimate is that the healing is mostly irrelevant. In the burst meta we are in, a few more hp from his passive and the life steal from his ult will not stop any decent assassin from bursting him down. He's a mage made for drawn out fights in an era where those fights barely exist anymore.
They could have let him keep his bonus health on cast
i played most aram today, swain normally want conqueror to proc so he can heal more, the think is that my last 4 matches that i played with him i didnt use that rune instead i use grasp, and honestly is wayyyy better.
youre spot on
Run merc. treads or armor boots and he becomes almost very difficult to burst with no loss of cc and little loss of damage. Armor boots, liandrys, spirit visage and Electrocute turns him into a good cc tank with good early game burst, decent aoe damage and good team fight presence. That being said his skill ceiling is fairly high, bad Swains can get punished easily if out of position or if you miss your root and pull a lot.
@@TheR3dplague This is what swain does on support, it was especially strong when radiant virtue was still a thing. You become an annoying threat that's never worth targeting in a teamfight, but still has to be played around.
@@StrengerKiller Conqueror healing on this champion is myth. You only take it for adaptive. It take too long to stack ( 2*q + e + w +r + 2aa or 3q/r refresh if missed w).
I had games where conq healed me 500hp, while second wind healed 2k+ (prefered over conditioning vs poke mage mid).
Triumph is similar and will heal 5x more than conq.
SWAIN I LOVE YOU
Demon Time
Walk with E
SPEND YOUR MONEYYYYY
It's showtime
Walk with money spend your e
One of Swain's biggest problems is how inconsistent his passive is. Almost all infinite stacking champs can get stacks from minions or jungle monsters like Nasus, Veigar, Smolder or Bel'veth and make sure they get stacks consistently. Swain on the other hand has to interact with the opponent to get his stacks, to be precise he has to hit an e or w, which are quite easy to dodge as most champs have a better range or the necessary mobility.
Swain will never reach the status of a Nasus with 1000 stacks or a Smolder with 225+ stacks. Swain passive is a late game passive that gets stronger over the match but never reaches the status where it gets out of control for the opponents or have you ever had the moment where you thought “oh shit a swain with 200 stacks”?
Yeah for how hard it is you'd figure it would be one of the strongest stacking passives. But it has both the weakest effect and the most difficulty stacking it. Swain has no health scaling on any of his abilities, his health gets shredded by other champs % health damage, and unlike literally every other champ, does not stack easier the more stacks he has.
I just went over a bunch of my games and I have an average of 30-35 stacks by the 25-30 min mark of the game... So yeah it doesn't help too much or maybe I'm bad !??
I've noticed some of my games I have almost 100 tho!!!
I often forget his passive even exists
Best I ever got was like 60 stacks maybe? And that was 1100 bonus hp. Still did barely anything cause I can’t translate that into anything meaningful
"A Morgana Q that can go through minions" you just described Neeko E.
Or lux q, albeit only one minion. Or Seraphine e, or zyra e.
neeko e lasts way less
@@thatoneguywhosaysbyethenwa1720 no? it used to have an even longer root than morgana q
@@lexiette8343 ? don't get hit by an empowered root then
@@thatoneguywhosaysbyethenwa1720 dont get hit by any cc then
Main Swain over here. I wouldn't really say he's inconsistent. If you look at him from a general perspective, he totally is, but I think the problem lies in his current concept. He's not a half all in half poke/controller. He's 100% all in. All his current kit is meant to keep his R. The R is the whole champion, his kit is meant to make him a pve raid boss. Q deals damage, E and W keep enemies within his range. That's it. There's no champion otherwise, if you get kitted is over. I think they put too much emphasys on the R and the power budget just screwed him. If I were to change something, I'd lower the damage from his R and increase the healing or I'd give him more sustain as a reward for take downs during it. So that his basic abilities can become more meaningful outside of the R, which is... bassically the rest of the time. He's also too item dependent, I'd like to see a wider range of builds, perhaps make his health scaling more meaning full by adding something akin to Vlad's passive, but with thresholds, like with Smolder. Empower him based on health reached. That'd likely turn him into a hypercarry to keep him balanced, but I wouldn't mind that.
I agree. Swain without R is so weak, you feel powerless
You're absolutely right about his power budget, but I like to consider it like it's based around his q:
P- survive long enough to shotgun you in the face
Q- shotgun you in the face
W- corral you to shotgun you in the face
E- prevents you from running away from a shotgun to the face
R- survive long enough to shotgun you in the face and soften you up to the shotgun to the face
He needs more HP or AP scaling, it feels bad to have to buy Liandry's to do meaningful damage (and Rylai's as the anti-kiting tool) while other items which, on paper, can be good for him like BFT, Shadowflame or even Rabadon's are underwhelming. And building HP and resistance items (which are a must if you don't want to be instagibbed) gives you nothing but the raw stats.
What's also kind of shit is that he feels like an autowin into melee comps, but borderline useless against ranged comps.
@@Laggiter97 Oof, that's so true, his dependency towards Rylai it's just as Seraphine's, where, it feels like the item is necesary to "complete" the champion. Also, the reason I'm main Swain instead of otp is cuz I wont lock the champ if the enemy team doesn't have at least 2-3 mele champs, cuz otherwise is autolose.
Ha! *General* perspective.
I love Swain. However, his old game play was my favorite in the game. So I play him rarely now because he isn't what he was. The problem of updating champs is that their game play will still age. His ult has way more impact now, but being able to swap on and off of his old ult helped you stay in lanes and fights with a stacking mana cost. Was a good trade-off of knowing when spending your mana was worth it.
I miss the toggle ult as well. But the thing I miss the most is the laser bird. That was such a funny ability.
I am old Swain main! After rework I cant pick him... Sad but old Swain is something special and so fun to play.
Swain has my highest mastery by a lot, my beautiful swan is my main. I think one thing that i experience personally is (assuming the other team knows how to play against swain) he just doesn't feel good. If you build tanky, you do no dmg so it's safe for the other team to ignore you. But if you build dmg, you die instantly when you go in. The drain tank idea is fun and feels good when swain is broken, but when properly balanced, he can't do dmg and tank. He feels very bad. You mentioned Vlad as an example, and he fits the feeling of drain tank much better than swain does, despite not usually being considered a drain tank.
While his ult is better now, I did prefer how it was a toggle back in the day. If you had RoA and Seraph’s you could keep it up indefinitely similar to Amumu. It also meant Swain was a literal Raid Boss is Ascension Mode, because you were crazy difficult to kill and could drain the entire enemy team at no mana cost… it was amazing
To be fair, they got rid of that when old Swain got the auto targeting laser bird and became a top lane menace, giving it a 20s cooldown (used to be almost like Singed Q). I do miss it too though, created another form of skill expression in resource management. Could use it to push slightly faster or heal up on wave, use it as a deterrent, etc.
I miss Torment as well. The fact that it amped ALL damage types made double buff swain and Ignite kind of cool. +20% on both those wasn't too shabby.
I think the thing I missed most about old Swain though was that he had a well-known niche as a strong counterpick champion. Before, because of Decrepify having a leash range that wants opponent to get close, and with his heal+tankier build, he was such a good pick into assassins. New nevermove makes him almost the opposite, he now sucks against mobility so much.
While I like current swain, I miss the old one. Especially the toggle ultimate. It felt much more satisfying to me then the current one. And how good he used to be into assassins complimented my champ pool pretty well over now.
Swain, the champ that is below average on the rift but top 5 in aram
Trueeeee 😂
Swain im Arena:
I really enjoy playing swain in aram!!
Top 5 is a reach, there are so many busted Champs in Aram, Swain isn't even in the top ten
Swain isnt below average. His kit doesnt appeal to the snowballers that are the high skill level players, so only lower level players pick him consistently. The problem isnt swain or anything but this constant desire to build the game for pro players when 85% of the player base isnt anywhere near pro level play
Essentially a game made for casual play was hijacked by pro players and communists, such that now its being developed for an incredibly small group of people, and that the kinds of games you might make for those people are neither fun, nor even good.
It took something that was good and fun, tried to change it to cater to the most exclusive try hards, and in doing so ruined what it was for the casuals and for the try hards
I think making his W cast time scale with distance so that it’s faster the closer it is to him would be cool. Also maybe making his ult a little bigger for every stack he has?
I liked Swain better when he was a bald guy with a limp. He looks like Lucius Malphoi now. But I really just liked the fact that he turned into a creepy bird thing whenever he used his Ultimate.
Swain instantly became my favorite character when he first came out and I loved the fact that he had a toggle r ability that allowed him to heal through fights as well as a damage amp ability that made even ignite stronger to use with it. The rework made him look cooler, but it made him function worse, so I completely agree with this video.
old swain was so much more fun to play. loved old swain. felt like playing a warlock in wow.
Great video! I think Morgana has the exact same problem. Her basic kit is designed to play it as a ranged mage while her ult makes her want to be in the middle of the fight, which results in akwards positionings and being force to build Hourglass in order to not be garbage.
One time i stole drake with swain W.
That was peak league, ive never had a better moment gaming
1:00 ah. Ok. I was about to say. He aint a constant, but at least down in the depths of low elo he's picked a solid amount.
Swain is a DEMON into AD melee heavy teams, but thats about it lmao. One fed ADC can shut im down pretty hard.
Im a swain main, and i never knew the champ pre rework. For people at my ELO hell, its important to find A champ on which you perform, rather than chasing meta picks. Landing Es and Ws has become so second nature that they sometimes show up in my dreams
I miss you OLD SWAIN!!!!!
I miss old Swain...
his old W was so satisfying. i can still hear its sound in my dreams
something I notice a lot of swain players do is immediately recast Nevermove, which is a big mistake as far as I can see it, since recasting it at the last second will overall have MUCH more CC since the targets hit remain rooted UNTIL you recast it. Recasting it as late as possible allows you to walk up if an enemy is running away to THEN recast it and boom, you're right there in the close range you like so much. Keeping enemies rooted by recasting as late as possible also allows your teammates to walk up closer, too, and it works as a disengage tool because if you're running away you won't wanna recast it immediately, of course, but keep them still until you're as far away as possible.
Honestly I think a fun experiment for how Swain could be tweaked is having his basic abilities change when he casts his ultimate kind of in the same way that K'sante's ultimate works. They could make it so his q at base is more poke focused while keeping his w and e basically the same and focusing more on control, and then in his ult form his q w and e could change to be something for practical for sustained close ranged dps and drain tanking, effectively making him a stance changer from an artillery mage to a battle mage. Granted this is all hypothetical and I have no idea how you would balance that but I think if it was done correctly he could be much more satisfying to play and ironically link him back more to his old identity in how he essentially goes from poking/control to all in and drain tanking by using his ult.
this would be so cool ngl
I miss old Swain's gameplay. If I could get old Swain's gameplay with current Swain's visuals he'd be a 10/10.
You mean not having to hit skillshots ? ^^
You just miss being a child
@@popkhorne5372 I mean having a champion that had agency as a solo laner and wasn't just a glorified support/item applicator.
Swain as he stands does not have agency as a solo lane champion and relies far too much on another hence why the majority of Swain players play him either support or in place of an ADC compared to old Swain that was entirely played top or mid.
@@riven4121 we are talking about pre rework swain, right ?
skillshots are overrated. old swain was pure aura, and his dance was swaggier
I think that it is just too hard to have the same impact as an immobile short ranged mage with no gapcloser in the age of dashes and blinks. Great ult, too bad enemies can just get away from you. Good W, too bad it takes about 5 decades to finish. Great E, if only it didn't move like it got withered by Nasus.
Lol that's a good way to put it 🤣 100% nasus withered
I also liked old Swain a lot. He would get trounced in current meta, but back in the day he was a lot of fun to poke with
It's such a pain that such a cool champion doesn't get the love he deserves. Thank god though riot is reworking his kit
I actually like the fact that swain's gameplay has 2 states. He's the goddamn demon strategist, of course i want to have the range of a strategist and the draintaking of a demon. I'm aware its not the best package, and i'm glad Swain's receiving some love from riot, i just hope the upcomming rework doesnt change too much about swain's versatile nature
I've been a Swain main for a while and the real reason people don't like Swain is because his E moves at inconsistent speeds. The bug has been in the game for a long time and no one has fixed it. But Swain's E often goes slow or faster for no reason at all, which makes it hard to time. But Swain players stick with Swain because they like the chain lightning on his Q, it feels really cool when you use it.
I actually stuck with him because I loved the draintank aspects of his kit.
old swain was better imho
Swain my beloved
The biggest disjoint in swain's kit is his w. swain q rewards being melee range, swain e helps u get melee range, and swain r helps u stay melee range. Swain W approaches being a neutral game tool all wrong, and should really be more of a disengage than anything, to help u get out of melee range instead of rewarding u for being xerath range. I think a good swain w would be 20~ second cd like a fiora parry, and would push people away from him like inverted rell r. This turns his standard lane combo of e-e-w-q into e-e-q-w and makes it slightly more consistently safe, but it also locks this consistency behind a 20 second cd. It would also help him deal with melee range threats that can't be bursted down, giving him a unique position as a top lane battle mage, which fits his drain tank style better than mid or bot lane should. It would also add build diversity by not forcing you to build rylais to deal with these melee range threats.
I think Riot kinda killed Swain's identity with the rework, as he's supposed to be a mastermind / tactician / general.
In his old kit, he had a lot of area control and he'd mostly enter close range with ult to cash in on a advantage state, which he tried to create via his other skills or to counter a dive on the Backline.
You might still be able to make him work out, as his skills aren't weak on their own. It just doesn't feel great when half of your kit isn't viable for a state you're in.
7:50 can we finally agree that neeko was a mistake then?
I miss when we could command Beatrice to attack 😢
Man popping the one person who tried to run is such a dopamine hit
12:06 Now that is someone I haven't seen in years. God I miss his animations.
Also if anyone is wondering what he does now, he became an electrician and is happier with it, so good for him.
I knew this day was gonna come
The way I would change swain is make his q a charge shot where the longer you charge the more damage and range it gets but less projectiles so eventually it’s like a xerath q
imagine holding from level 1 to level 18... I can already see the title of fufu's video: " YOU WONT BELIEVE HOW MY SWAIN Q, WHICH I HELD FOR 3 HOURS ON RIFT 1 SHOT PROFESSOR AKALI!!!"
as an Swain otp, getting fed feels really good on swain.
Swain is my main, my beloved, and the only character i've never been bored of playing until now. I always play a lot of different picks but he's the only one i could OTP.
It’s insane that for how much utility and sustain is in his kit his best ability is still his Q
Love you mr swain
I used to love playing Swain before they changed his passive.
It was really fun to click on people after they were CC'd by anyone on the team. Idk I just really liked the game feel of it.
I get why they changed him, it's just a personal thing. I really don't think he needs another rework though. Sure, he might not be played the most, but his kit is healthy imo. I think the duality of his Q being better close and his E being better far away makes for really thoughtful gameplay. Sometimes, when a kit is too cohesive, theres less microdecisions and it gets less interesting.
his kit isnt healthy thou wdym? His W is sure unique and a big ahh range but the hitbox is so abysmal for a mage like him compare to say Lux E and you have to wait 1=s for the thing to pop, his E need to hit on it return to actually root someone lol which is inconsistent as heck.
Sorry but I don't think his kit is healthy, without his R he is almost useless. His only source of good damage is q but it's range is bad, w is inconsistent and e is too slow. Swain is also extremely reliant on Rylai's. Riot needs to shift his power budget a bit from his r, or at least give his other abilities a bit of extra damage.
Swain at any role: 😠
Swain Support: 👹
Rather a clown than a devil, it's by far his worst role
@@Adjusting1 Literally among the strongest supports I've played. but no one builds him correctly. Hint: AP items except Rylais are trash.
@@trueandfact maybe in very low elo where people can't dodge his very preductable E
getting this video recommended after finding 3 swain players in a row made me laugh hysterically so you earned a sub
I love how swain is meant to be this big drain tank dps scaling mage like Vladimir and he’s played as a support
Stopped playing ranking for a long time and stick to playing NG with friends only. But I am a big fan of Swain, played really a lot of games with him.
Man everyday i think about old swain and old adc graves. Old swains Lazor bird was my favorite ability in the whole game.
what pissed me off with riot is they justified swains rework to remove his old q (Decrepify) because when used it would make his old e (root) impossible for players to dodge. They claimed this was an unfair mechanic and on rework his new q would be blocked by minions, then months after they reworked it again to the current q. When combined with rylai's....its essentially worse to play against than the old q, because the old q didn't have a low cooldown.
never though id see swain get a video like this
Hi, Swain main here. He's one of my favorite support/top laners.
I do wish his ult was something else tho
i just want old swain back.
As a Swain main I’ve always thought that if you made the Q hold to cast and the longer you hold it the less wide it is but the longer range it becomes, you hold for x amount of time and you lose one of the bolts on either side and gain a little length on the ability, this would give his Q better value against single targets from range but also give opponents some room to dodge by seeing the cast being held, this kind of thing I think is good but I’m also not a game developer
Can I just appreciate the fact that it took around a month before this vid got out?
"... at the time of writing this, early August..."
*posts around August 30th, UTC +**8:00*
I'm new to the game and I went from Yuumi to Support Swain and I absolutely love his current playstyle.
He is so much fun to play.
I will never forget the day where I played Swain SUPPORT and beat a full health Mordekaiser inside the death realm.
Swain is the SoloQ Ryze
I thought the title was Why Does No One Play Swarm and I was going to be very upset.
6:30 A Legend 🫡
Weird Idea: Revers K'Sante. During R:
Gets Resistances based on his AP, loses a bit AP, gains HP based on his fragments, no more heal by gaining Fragments
R Passive is the healing through gaining Fragments or maybe even Spellvamp.
Actually cool idea
I never played old swain but i really like the map and vision control he has with the current W. I wish it lingered a bit more when putting points into it on top of gaining cast distance.
Something like : at lv1 it explodes immediately after 2.5 s, from level 2 onwards, after 2.5 you can choose when it explodes within a time limit, after which it would do so automatically.
So the vision time would be 2.5/4.0/5.5/7.0/8.5
The minimum required time to explode would always be 2.5 and the cooldown begins only after the second cast.
I liked the old ultimate that wasn't infinte but gave you bonus health when you popped it and it did damage based off how much you healed (also more room for skill expression that is no longer there. A good Swain knew how to delay demonflare for as long as possible to get bigger damage and to keep calm under pressure to not pop it early or wait for the perfect flash demonflare angle). The old ult gave him a real strategy that you can play out in the laning phase where you poke aggressively and take semi equal health trades sustaining where you can. Then when the enemy jumps on you for the all in you pull the rug out from under them with the bonus hp from ult and now the enemy is on top of you. Perfect point blank q to the face right there. When it works you really feel like a master tactician that set the perfect trap.
That to me was also more in line with the character identity too "Appear weak where you are strong and strong where you are weak" as the Art of War so eloquently puts it. Swain was at the disadvantage when he's playing neutral laning so he tries to poke you hard to discourage too many short to medium trades where his damage can't keep up with most matchups in the early game. He still loses HP and the opponent is usually able to still whittle him down in an even skill matchup but at that point he's farmed to 6 and odds are he can turn your level 6 all in.
You can't do that with his new ult and it feels like such an awkward ability to use in my experience. Idk why Rito thought an infinite ult was a good idea when fights are so short in league and have remained pretty short on average since 2016. Even when that rework first came out you rarely saw situations where his ult lasts any longer than it did before. And that was before the league community realized that they can kite back and wait his ult out. Plus I liked having a limited window to get things done when ulting, it encouraged aggression and rewarded you for doing so as long as you knew to back off and not unga bunga. Once again, in line with how you would think the character should play.
I like the passive fine honestly but bring back being able to pull from your teams cc. Such a unique ability that only affected one champ and it had a cd so you couldn't pull from your blitzcranks knockup and then e for another pull. Part of the skill expression was being able to differentiate good pulls from bad ones and whether or not you should try to save your pull to set up your own combo or to try and help the team catch an enemy.
I feel like the punishment for missing e is too high now even with the ult reducing the cd. I rarely find the cd to be the difference maker in catching someone or not because of the relatively short range of the ability. Usually if you miss your first one they are out by the time it comes up again even with the ult haste.
Finally Rylais is such an unfun crutch to use too IMO. (I don't think its very fun to just perma slow somebody and run them down as a skillshot mage, feels unskilled, un-interactive, and antithetical to the champions design. If you wanna do that then play Nasus) But the truth is your game is so much harder if you don't build it and if you don't rush it then the short range/high mobility problem is really hard to overcome.
I love most of the awkward champions. I put in an effort to play them, but it's true that you can play so many other champions that do those jobs easier and better. I can never find the words to describe why a champion is awkward, but you always do. Thank you ❤
Swain has been my main for so long due to his simple fighter+mage playstyle with really fun skillshit and Vision skill.
General Swain my beloved, OTP here, he is just underestimated, it's hard to understand the champion and his abilities, but he is the strongest champion if you really comprehend it's power
Old Swain was one of my favorite champs. I still miss playing him... New Swain is nothing like it.
I don’t play against a Swain very often. But when I do, the Swain’s team wins, and usually it’s because of him. This is one of those champs I’m surprised I don’t see enough of.
Pre-VGU swain was my favourite champion, with all the DOTs and the toggle ult. was so fun once you got mana going and could drain tank for ages. Current swain is okay, but I really miss the toggle ulti.
I think his kit is realtivly fine but one of my greatest quips is his W do not scale well into late game. Early the speed is good since no one have boots need to burn a dash to get away from it if you hit it slightly in ther current travel direction. But allredy with normal boots you can basicly out run even if you completly cross it. I would love to see the detonation time shorten for every point you put into it make it so enemys that try to get away from you after ult have a harder time since you could way more effectivly cut ther path with your W (the slow is not to bad) on top of making it more consistent in late for scouting/cuting path. It could even becom a strategy for mid Swains o level it to suport side lanes globaly similare to a TF for the price of pressure in his own lane.
I loved old Swain and miss him just as much as mordekaiser running over rift with dragon as pet
this is one of the most vars video ive seen in a while
As a swain main, while i agree with most of your points, his e works like trynd w where it punishes people from running away from him and his w works the same at melee and ranged, as a zoning and slow ability
I have now seen all 3 of my mains on Why No One Plays.
Sion
Poppy
And now Swain
Every time you make one of these videos I go and play a game on the champ
One thing I will add is something you said from another video, that mages are the most item reliant, and that is especially true for Swain, Rylais is almost a must have for him. I picked up on Swain support in season 13 and got all the way to mastery 7, and items were really in his favor, as you could have Rylai and Demonic for damage while going full tank from there, specifically Jak'Sho and Radiant Virtue, Radiant more for support and Jak'Sho for better tanking. But come season 14, Radiant is gone, Jak'Sho is now a resistance multiplier instead, and Demonic Embrace being removed means if Swain wants both % health burn and AP based on HP, suddenly he needs Liandry and Riftmaker, while not having an easy choice for tank items, while also having the budget of a support. Since season 14, I haven't played him much as the itemization issues as well as the things you brought up in the video just have made him overall feel not that good to play. Hope that mini rework helps when it arrives.
Great video, by the way.
Give his E a recast to reverse the projectile direction early, and make his W detonate 1/8 of a second sooner
I would make his Q a three charge recast. First one is narrow, if it hits it gets a wider but lower damage recast, and if that hits it gets an even wider but lower damage recast.
Hitting a champion gives the recasts a higher AP ratio, so you still come out ahead on damage at high amounts of AP.
I haven't played League in years, but I used to play Swain. The birb dot was funny.
Honestly, even though all you said was true, i don't want Swain to be reworked again, it's the same thing with Aurelion Sol, i still miss the old one even thoguh i never played him, he was such an original design with his star mechanic and being a very skilled roaming mage, Swian is known for being THE Raid boss, and i want that to never change.
As a Swain main I'm actually glad that Swain is not popular and not played. He never gets banned, enemies don't know what he can do.
I'll say it over and over again:
I LOVED old AP Yorick, I LOVED old maokai ult WAAAY more and old swain was a fun menace in ARAM
I feel like he has been done justice in WildRift
I loved Swain’s old toggle.
And I quite like this new Swain tbf.
What about if whilst he was ulting. He got a new W and a new E that synergised better. Then he’d be like a shapeshifter.
Hell. Give him his old Q and W while I lying maybe
You've misunderstood how swain w and e are used in a fight. They don't work well up close because they're not meant to. If the enemy is point blank then great. You don't need e or w at that point. If someone somehow manages to get slightly of of range his e is there to bring them back. If someone manages to escape and is outside of e range then you use w to close the distance so you can then drag them to you. His e and w are used to stop people from escaping in a fight. If you use them early and people dash away afterwards and you're screwed. (w is also a vision/support tool like you said)
His healing has been nerfed too much to make him an actual Battle Mage
A thought i had about Swain for a long time was: Why not capitalize on his infinite stacking passive? Aurelion sol for example does % max health dmg with his Q stacking forever based on his passive. With that logic, why not give something similar to Swain? Perhaps his R blast scales with the souls he has collected, or the healing % ramps up based on the number of souls. These aspects don't really address what you've said in the video but i believe giving him some infinite scaling with his passive (that actually helps like sustain) would go along way to make him extremely durable in fights (which is supposed to be his core playstyle), instead of him deflating like an overdue balloon.
You're pretty spot on. His thematic and design and stuff look really good but he just feels terrible to play. But I understand the predicament. People, including myself, loved the drain tank raid boss style of his ult so we want to keep that, but its kind of a disconnect of his kit. If you changed his Q to make it more control orientated to fit in with W and E, then his ult would be super out of place. But I think people are fine with him being short range so they could probably change Vision to an ability that doesnt suck, and then rework his root to be not so clunky and he would probably be fine. His Q and R already make sense together, so the other abilities just have to follow. If they are hellbent on the demon theme they could change his root back to the old style and have a demon hand grasp the area after a delay. And it would be fine to keep it shorter range to play into his kit. Id be perfectly fine with a total revert tho I miss old Swain. Maybe just rework Torment cuz a point and click DoT is kinda lame for this day and age but the rest of the kit was fine. Total control of the battle field with roots and beatrice and his ult.
I think allowing Swain to recast e would be a good change, but only let him recast it during his ult, and only after hitting at least one enemy.
That way the e stays mostly the same, but it can be used at shorter range during his ult, which would be the only moment you want people to stay next to you.
I am a Swain main, and I really love playing him, he is a good pick especially as a support. If you play agressive from the first minute and make some kills or assists with the adc he is really good as a supp. Late game he can manage to shred a bit of the enemies' hp and help the team as a tank, especially if you use Zhonia to wait for the heal. There are many better supps, but he can be a solid choice rather than being played mid lane in my opinion
3:00 technically ASol Q and Urgot W should be here too
Swain is really good. I started played after rework and I instantly found Swain as the most fun champ in the entire game
He is basically played every few games in Arena though, because of the cheese ultimate in the circle of death.
And I freaking loved the aesthetics. Despite being poor and a cheapskate, I bought like.... 2 maybe 3 skins. Just ultimately kinda felt boring.
I will be heartbroken when I see that Swain's R isn't infinite anymore. it's my favorite part of his kit
Just remake his grasp to be a dash followed with an optional input for a skill shot short pull. That way he can engage, close distance, and that gives value to his vision if he can dash on top of you as he sees you.
Pretty good video: Summs up all of the problems while pointing out the issues of fixing them.
IMO the Champ is just not fixable if you want to keep his current Spells. While some of it was interesting I don't think any of the stuff Phreak mentioned recently will do anything. If it's good he'll be just broken again, if it's bad nothing changes.
Swains big issue is indeed the fact that just loses against ANY other Champ when even.
You don't have ANY outplay potential what so ever - you to damn big to dodge and practically SELF-ROOT your self longer than your actual enemy when trying to use a Melee E... also you don't have any hard CC to prevent DMG.
Just bring the old one back, he had his issues, but was damn fun to play if you were able to deal with them.
I wonder through how many iterations of trash we have to dig until we're finally back there...
It's depressing man.. I loved this Champ, his theme and the game so much... but at his state... I don't know..
Just today I've lost another game cause I was unable to sidelane VS anything despite being FED AF... 1-6 Voli took tower in my face, 2-8 Lethality Udyr...ran me down... This Champ is HOT GARBAGE!
Swain is a pretty classic case of his abilities simply having exactly one way to be used and nothing you can switch up. Even with his set being usable in several roles, it simply isn't really fun over a long time in any of them.
His E simply does damage on click. It feels good to palpatine people and waves, but it's just effectively unmissable damage in the end, even without the stupid joy of a point and click projectile like Maplh Q.
W is an amazing tool for the map, but at the same time it is crucial to collecting passive stacks AND the drawbacks it has for being super long range also apply for its short range use cases, making it incredibly restrictive to use as well.
Lastly, E is just nice and satisfactory, but so crucial for the rest of the abilities to hit, that it is stuck as the ability that dictates how good the rest of his abilities can be because the damage difference between a hit E and a missed one can quite literally be 100%.
Lastly his R is super cool but got changed away from being a magic drain tank to being... just an AOE damage dealer. There is no use in supplementing Swain with tank items because, as everything in current league, the best way to stay alive is to just kill your enemy. Liandries will always do more than, let's say, spirit visage because his healing scales with AP for some reason and the resulting HEALING of Liandries stats simply outclassed the deticated tank healing boost item in every case. There is one way to build swain and that is - just like any other poke mage BUT you have to be in close range.
Lastly - his passive does its thing badly. Pre mini-rework the stats doubled from ulting and would heal him for the doubled part. It gave an amazing reward for stacking well and opened a skill reward for correctly baiting and ulting enemies, synchronized to the two different healing effects of your passive.
Even with the ult now being more rewarding, the sole interaction between passive and his kit got removed with no gain but, in good current league manners, damage.
If I had to change swain, I would keep his Q as it is, as it is boring but necessary and effective.
His W gains an AP and cooldown scaling based on distance. The farther away he casts it, the higher the damage scaling and slow becomes but the longer the cooldown gets, longer than current CD. On short range, damage and slow is minimized, but the cast time is ever so slightly increased to make it less reliant on E but also not oppressive or hard to dodge.
E can also stay the same as well and, in spite of many, must absolutely keep the fixed casting distance. I also think that the displacement should only happen in his ult, while the base E just rips a fragment on recast.
It would incentivise neutral mid range for laning and close range for ulting.
Swains ult should get back the old instant heal upon casting, maybe in an even more passive stack reliant form. His ults healing should get a bonusHP scaling, rather than AP scaling as well. It's actually ludicrous how Sylas got bHP scaling before Swain did.
Lastly, his passive should get increased speed on long distance so that you can atleast somewhat plan ahead on the healing you get. It's healing could also get minimally better, the often it comes from the same person. It's about collecting secrets, I think it wouldn't hurt to put in a gimmicky:
Healing = %maxHealth + (5*stacks from enemy HP)
just for the feeling of being rewarded for good stacking.
With this, more build options would open up, from Hypershot W sniper over AOE burner to ACTUAL drain tank, while keeping the player involved at the same time.
I love him in the eraly reworks games, when he got life and mana with his pasive and his q was narrow and he execution mechanic where if you kill the enemy your shot go through and has les cd
That thing make him a good trader and pucher in top and a good burst battle mage in late game also making him stay longer in fighting and use the pasive when the enemy disengage
I think what Vars is saying is valid for most other champions. But Swain's kit works best not by optimising poke vs all-in, instead adapting to the situation accordingly. Being versatile makes swain fun and allows him to be strong in most roles. He' can supp with good vision control and playmaking potential, works well solo in either lane since he can poke also fight and his builds can be pretty adaptable, either going tanky for massive heal potential or full AP for huge DPS.
I've been playing him APC for a little while now and had solid success with it, either going even in lane most times (even in losses) and also dominating. He is fun and getting that perfect ult that lasts for ages is so satisfying, especially coming out full HP while everyone is low or dead XD
Bring back his old kit. It was actually fun.
I miss his old passive. I liked being able to click on any CCed champ to yank them, it felt really interesting to have a kit that encourages empowering other's CC (Unlike Ornn that does that only in theory).
riot balance team needs to see this video