+Salvey Smalls That idiot would bring up Ryan's strikeouts and 300 wins. He doesnt get that what Mussina did wasnt easy. I dont think Mussina was a Koufax or even a Ryan but a Don Sutton of the juiced era. He talks of 17 years like winning the Cy Young is easy. WTF only 1 pitcher out of what like 140 starting pitchers each year can win it and you need a little bit of luck and help from your teammates. They should ask that guy how many times hes won the lottery if he played it every week for 20 years.
Ryan might never have won a Cy Young but he did win 2 ERA titles during his career. Mussina didn't win 1 ERA title during his career. Mussina should have stayed along longer 300 wins is going be something we might not see in a long time if we do again. And that would make his case of getting in an easy one.Maybe he quit on his own terms as some call noble but 300 wins would make a huge case for him getting in. Sutton had a much longer career, has anyone even looked at how many years of 30 or more starts he had ? he averaged nearly 33 starts, 756 starts in 23 years ! Doing that with very good numbers( not great numbers). Considering how arms blow out these days, he was a true iron man.
The most impressive thing to me is that he swung at everything yet never struck out 100 times. That's crazy, there's some great all time hitters who routinely struck out 100+ times a year
Larry Walker should be in the hall of fame for many reasons. Statistics is only part of the reason, but another is that he is candian and played for the expos
this is what's wrong Hall of Fame voters are young people are not elderly guys anymore like me look at the statistics of Mickey lolich Tony Oliva and Richie Allen those three guys deserve to be in the Hall of Fame
It's hard to win a CY YOUNG when Roger Clemens is taking steroids. The Writers seem to be penalizing the clean players because of comparisons to "juicers".
Not a Russo fan, and this discussion shows why. MVP and Cy Young Awards tend to go to the player who has a brilliant season, particularly an unexpected one. Steve Stone won 107 games in his career, and 25 of the wins were in his Cy Young season. Consistently placing in the top five is a better indication of excellence than one great season.
@@stevemeters3090 Tommy John won 288 games and missed a year due to arm surgery/recovery. Other, dubious choices have won fewer games and are in the HOF.
@@fasteddie9867 dude I completely agree. There's a lot of guys in the Hall that shouldn't be. And yeah his surgery revolutionized the game. but he played 26 years which is about 11 wins a season. Amazing career, super important to the game, but personally I don't think he's a HOFer. I mean Jamie Moyer won 269 games in 25 years. Just my opinion. A lot of people agree with you.
Honestly ide even go as far as to say Don Mattingly and Thurman Munson are deserving of the hall too. I know neither played long enough but neither did the infamous Sandy Koufax!!! They played relatively the same time. Kirby Puckett another player that only played what 11 years? How does Puckett get in and not Mattingly or Munson??? If you ask me they should make the Hall of Fame a numbers game, and not be in the hands of the sports writers!!!
They both played the requisite years. They were on the ballot for a committee a couple years ago when Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons got in. I think they'll be up again next year or the year after.
Sandy had such a dominant run. Such a run that when he retired he was 7th all time in strikeouts, which by the 60s a good amount of years had passed since the 1800s and record keeping of players to accumulate strikeouts
Cy young doesnt honor the best pitcher it honors the most winning pitcher. It honors pitchers for something they have little to no control over. It SHOULD honor the best pitcher but it doesnt
eddie murray more than 3k hits, .287 batting average, Fred McGriff should be in HOF too, 2490 hits, 493 Hr, 1550 RBI, .284 batting average , if Fred not in HOF, probably his Hits are lower than 2700-2800, but he is above .280 batting average and also 1.5k RBI, nearly 500 HR
Pitching is so important in baseball. To show how pitching is valued, compare the percentage of pitchers who make up first round draft picks vs. pitchers who make up hall of fame. I don't know these numbers but I assume they represent higher in the draft than hof.
Whoever puts these players in the hall of fame please vote for don Mattingly. One of the greatest of all time and definitely the best to do it on a garbage team during his time with the yankees. No wild card at that time up until 1995 but yet the yankees had the best record during his run there. Think about it
He is openly right wing and doesn't like trans people. Such a crime. Obviously the people who want to cut off their genitals and replace them with flesh fakes aren't mentally ill. People who think that is a mental illness are just filled with hate.
Don't forget Ivan Rodriguez belong on PDE era!!! He also was listed on the famous brook of steroid user's!!! ... IF He goes in??.. MLB should also considered Big Mac, Bond, Sosa, Clement, Palmeiro, Ramirez and many many more!!! .. no entiendo?
@@Heath580 It's definitely not helping him, especially being an analyst, but I don't think it's what's keeping him out of the hall. He's a very borderline candidate....and really only had 4 great pitching seasons in a 20 year career.
@@mikeshoe74 Ummmm... 6 Years with an ERA+ over 140. Bob Gibson only had 4 years over 140. Koufax had 5. Nolan Ryan had 4. The only Hall of Fame eligible players since Abner Doubleday created the game not in the Hall of Fame with a higher WAR than Schilling with a higher WAR and/or JAWS score than Schilling not in are ARod, Clemens, Bonds. That's the list.
Schilling has HoF numbers but he's enough of an asshole that I'm okay with making him sweat a couple years. Mussina should be in, consistency doesn't get enough credit.
Michael young can be in the HOF because 10 consecutive season with at least .300 batting average, 6 season with more than 200 hits, 2 season with more than 180, one season with more than 170 hits, jeff kent 40%-47% to be in the HOF because only 3 season with more than 180 hits, even he has average of .290 batting average, but not 3000 hits or even closer to 2700 or 2800, so i wont say jeff kent is a hof why do i mention michael young ? because i think he did better than Jeff Kent, Michael young > Edgar Martinez > Jeff kent
Edgar’s name came up in the PED era, Young is a HOF his stats are far better than Edgar’s whose a non fielding DH please don’t compare a DH to anybody that has to play both sides of the game. Kent is a Sandberg just not with the glove. Anybody with over 2K hits multiple.300 seasons great glove a great RBI man 500 hrs deserve considerable consideration over 47%. The game is played in between the lines and those stats don’t come easy. I don’t believe Schilling is a unanimous lock for the HOF yeah he had some CY’s but he had more subpar seasons than superior. 0 championships as an ace.
Why did they not show us Schilling's career numbers, only his post-season? Of course, it doesn't help that he's an asshole. And since this discussion was recorded, he's only become less popular with the people who cast HOF ballots...Looking up his career traditional metrics, they're good, but not automatic HOF credentials, so the asshole part is gonna doom him. Verducci's exactly right about Sheffield/McGriff--Sheffield's presence in the Mitchell report, combined with the fact that he was an itinerant mercenary dooms his chances; McGriff is more worthy, but a quiet guy who played for many teams. As for Kent: great bat, but a defensive liability--his defensive WAR doesn't compare with Sandberg's, who had a remarkable streak of errorless chances, and put the Cubs on his back in '84.
Guys logic is faulty when arguing to keep mussing out of the hall. Just said he voted for schilling, WHO NEVER WON A CY YOUNG, then said he couldn't vote for mussina.... because he didnt win a cy young
Jim Edmonds. Great hitter but his defensive skills in center field was absolutely incredible.
BenKey4 It's disgusting that he never got past his first eligible year
Great hitter???
Are you serious?
Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young
yep I FUCKING forget
+Salvey Smalls
That idiot would bring up Ryan's strikeouts and 300 wins. He doesnt get that what Mussina did wasnt easy. I dont think Mussina was a Koufax or even a Ryan but a Don Sutton of the juiced era. He talks of 17 years like winning the Cy Young is easy. WTF only 1 pitcher out of what like 140 starting pitchers each year can win it and you need a little bit of luck and help from your teammates. They should ask that guy how many times hes won the lottery if he played it every week for 20 years.
Salvey Smalls moose belongs in the hall. He'll probably get in in his last year like Raines.
Ryan might never have won a Cy Young but he did win 2 ERA titles during his career. Mussina didn't win 1 ERA title during his career.
Mussina should have stayed along longer 300 wins is going be something we might not see in a long time if we do again. And that would make his case of getting in an easy one.Maybe he quit on his own terms as some call noble but 300 wins would make a huge case for him getting in.
Sutton had a much longer career, has anyone even looked at how many years of 30 or more starts he had ? he averaged nearly 33 starts, 756 starts in 23 years ! Doing that with very good numbers( not great numbers). Considering how arms blow out these days, he was a true iron man.
Griffey Jr. only had won 1 MVP, yet still he got nearly 100% of voting
vladimir guerrero better get in!!!!! great RF, maybe the best of his era. cannon arm, hit over 300. dont think i ever heard him speak though hehehe
The most impressive thing to me is that he swung at everything yet never struck out 100 times. That's crazy, there's some great all time hitters who routinely struck out 100+ times a year
He's in
Love the hehehe after saying never heard him speak. Hahah that made me laugh
That one guy talking about the Cy Young award like the voting criteria wasn’t broken until Felix Hernandez came around
Larry Walker should be in the hall of fame for many reasons. Statistics is only part of the reason, but another is that he is candian and played for the expos
He’s in now! And in the most spectacular fashion possible!
Juan Marichal - No Cy Young
Russo said after Beltre getting 3,000 hits he's not a HOF due to no MVP's.
Patrick Gray Russo is just a piece of shit. He doesn't know shit about baseball.
Ryan never won Cy Young. Wade Boggs never won MVP. Are they not Hall of Fame worthy?
InstantKarma376 sometimes you wonder why Ernie Banks and Billy Williams are in the Hall of Fame if they've never been in a World Series
Yet Griffey Won A MVP (1997)
Curt Schilling should already be in the HOF, and where is Kevin brown
Kevin Brown was a juicer
this is what's wrong Hall of Fame voters are young people are not elderly guys anymore like me look at the statistics of Mickey lolich Tony Oliva and Richie Allen those three guys deserve to be in the Hall of Fame
It's hard to win a CY YOUNG when Roger Clemens is taking steroids. The Writers seem to be penalizing the clean players because of comparisons to "juicers".
I think Mussina finished 2nd to Clemens twice.
Clements never did peds when he won over mussina....but i get your point
Not a Russo fan, and this discussion shows why. MVP and Cy Young Awards tend to go to the player who has a brilliant season, particularly an unexpected one. Steve Stone won 107 games in his career, and 25 of the wins were in his Cy Young season. Consistently placing in the top five is a better indication of excellence than one great season.
Edgar Martinez
@mksrookies Guess again!
Tommy John and Thurman Munson should be in the HOF
Munson maybe. Tommy John though? why?
@@stevemeters3090 Tommy John won 288 games and missed a year due to arm surgery/recovery. Other, dubious choices have won fewer games and are in the HOF.
@@fasteddie9867 dude I completely agree. There's a lot of guys in the Hall that shouldn't be. And yeah his surgery revolutionized the game. but he played 26 years which is about 11 wins a season. Amazing career, super important to the game, but personally I don't think he's a HOFer. I mean Jamie Moyer won 269 games in 25 years. Just my opinion. A lot of people agree with you.
@@stevemeters3090 cheers mate
Get Schilling in the HoF!
2:05 can I ask Jeter to win an MVP?
Honestly ide even go as far as to say Don Mattingly and Thurman Munson are deserving of the hall too. I know neither played long enough but neither did the infamous Sandy Koufax!!! They played relatively the same time. Kirby Puckett another player that only played what 11 years? How does Puckett get in and not Mattingly or Munson??? If you ask me they should make the Hall of Fame a numbers game, and not be in the hands of the sports writers!!!
They both played the requisite years. They were on the ballot for a committee a couple years ago when Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons got in. I think they'll be up again next year or the year after.
Sandy had such a dominant run. Such a run that when he retired he was 7th all time in strikeouts, which by the 60s a good amount of years had passed since the 1800s and record keeping of players to accumulate strikeouts
Never trust a guy who sits with there legs closed, they usually are hiding something.
Cy young doesnt honor the best pitcher it honors the most winning pitcher. It honors pitchers for something they have little to no control over. It SHOULD honor the best pitcher but it doesnt
eddie murray more than 3k hits, .287 batting average, Fred McGriff should be in HOF too, 2490 hits, 493 Hr, 1550 RBI, .284 batting average , if Fred not in HOF, probably his Hits are lower than 2700-2800, but he is above .280 batting average and also 1.5k RBI, nearly 500 HR
I blame the Rays for that. Bottom of their division but cut him early in the season when they should have left him out there to get a milestone.
Biggest problem for these guys are the glut of no doubt hall of famers that have played with them are now eligible
If Kirby Puckett is a first ballot HoFer, then so is Edmonds, Belran, Andruw Jones and many more
Pitching is so important in baseball. To show how pitching is valued, compare the percentage of pitchers who make up first round draft picks vs. pitchers who make up hall of fame. I don't know these numbers but I assume they represent higher in the draft than hof.
Whoever puts these players in the hall of fame please vote for don Mattingly. One of the greatest of all time and definitely the best to do it on a garbage team during his time with the yankees. No wild card at that time up until 1995 but yet the yankees had the best record during his run there. Think about it
Mussina had 9 top 6 finishes in the Cy Young voting. Penalizing him because he never got over the top is asinine.
Roger Maris, Jack Barry, and Don larson
2015 Greinke never talked about. Best season of the 2010s
Steroids his players got better in their 40s than they were in their Prime
How can anyone justify Curt Schilling not being in the HOF?
He is openly right wing and doesn't like trans people. Such a crime. Obviously the people who want to cut off their genitals and replace them with flesh fakes aren't mentally ill. People who think that is a mental illness are just filled with hate.
Peds
Gil Hodges should be in by now
Gil Hodges was inducted this year.
There are so many players who should be in the Hall who aren't. Where do you start?
Andruw Jones
Don't forget Ivan Rodriguez belong on PDE era!!! He also was listed on the famous brook of steroid user's!!! ... IF He goes in??.. MLB should also considered Big Mac, Bond, Sosa, Clement, Palmeiro, Ramirez and many many more!!! .. no entiendo?
Wasnt mentioned in the mitchell report.
+marcus nunes Dude come on that whole Texas team was on roids
Justin Amenta no. Texas is as classic as it gets
Schilling is doing everything he can right now to keep himself out of the hall of fame lol
@Adrian A he is a bit overly abrasive
@@Heath580 It's definitely not helping him, especially being an analyst, but I don't think it's what's keeping him out of the hall. He's a very borderline candidate....and really only had 4 great pitching seasons in a 20 year career.
@@mikeshoe74 Ummmm... 6 Years with an ERA+ over 140. Bob Gibson only had 4 years over 140. Koufax had 5. Nolan Ryan had 4. The only Hall of Fame eligible players since Abner Doubleday created the game not in the Hall of Fame with a higher WAR than Schilling with a higher WAR and/or JAWS score than Schilling not in are ARod, Clemens, Bonds. That's the list.
Is Julio Franco hall of fame worthy? He’s still playing at fifty with that awesome trademark swing of his.
Gil Hodges should be in by now
Shame on you HOF
Schilling has HoF numbers but he's enough of an asshole that I'm okay with making him sweat a couple years. Mussina should be in, consistency doesn't get enough credit.
How is it mussinas fault he didnt win a cy young?
What about Jim Abbott?
To many players not getting love. The teams make money off the players but when they get to the ballot they get no love
Mussina was a hall of Famer
Kenny lofton,edmonds,Lofton,Bernie Williams and Dave Stewart belongs in.
Schilling deserves to be in, Jeff Kent deserves to be ib, & Sheffield & Mcgriff & No question.
lol jeff kent?
Michael young can be in the HOF because 10 consecutive season with at least .300 batting average, 6 season with more than 200 hits, 2 season with more than 180, one season with more than 170 hits,
jeff kent 40%-47% to be in the HOF because only 3 season with more than 180 hits, even he has average of .290 batting average, but not 3000 hits or even closer to 2700 or 2800, so i wont say jeff kent is a hof
why do i mention michael young ? because i think he did better than Jeff Kent,
Michael young > Edgar Martinez > Jeff kent
Michael Young was not as good as Jeff Kent and as a hitter not even in the same area code as Edgar Martinez
Young was good but he's no Edgar.
Edgar’s name came up in the PED era, Young is a HOF his stats are far better than Edgar’s whose a non fielding DH please don’t compare a DH to anybody that has to play both sides of the game. Kent is a Sandberg just not with the glove. Anybody with over 2K hits multiple.300 seasons great glove a great RBI man 500 hrs deserve considerable consideration over 47%. The game is played in between the lines and those stats don’t come easy. I don’t believe Schilling is a unanimous lock for the HOF yeah he had some CY’s but he had more subpar seasons than superior. 0 championships as an ace.
Complete joke that Murphy and Mattingly aren't in the Hall of Fame and I'm from Cincinnati so never liked Braves or Yankees
Paul Konerko?
easy camera dude. gettin dizzy over here.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why Roy Hobbs is not in the Hall of Fame.
Or Steve Nebraska
Where's Lou Whitaker? Not a Yankee so he doesn't matter?
People hate Schilling as a person. He does belong though...
Tommy john ???
Why did they not show us Schilling's career numbers, only his post-season? Of course, it doesn't help that he's an asshole. And since this discussion was recorded, he's only become less popular with the people who cast HOF ballots...Looking up his career traditional metrics, they're good, but not automatic HOF credentials, so the asshole part is gonna doom him. Verducci's exactly right about Sheffield/McGriff--Sheffield's presence in the Mitchell report, combined with the fact that he was an itinerant mercenary dooms his chances; McGriff is more worthy, but a quiet guy who played for many teams. As for Kent: great bat, but a defensive liability--his defensive WAR doesn't compare with Sandberg's, who had a remarkable streak of errorless chances, and put the Cubs on his back in '84.
127 ERA+ and 80 WAR . Those are automatic numbers. Those are better than 2/3rds of the pitchers in the Hall of Fame.
Guys logic is faulty when arguing to keep mussing out of the hall. Just said he voted for schilling, WHO NEVER WON A CY YOUNG, then said he couldn't vote for mussina.... because he didnt win a cy young
Based on Russos logic, Nolan Ryan and Juan Marichal don't belong in the hall.
i still don't get Mussina being in the Hall..
Because he was an obvious Hall of Famer based on numbers? 83 WAR and 123 ERA+
@@Markdfadf do you think Tommy John belongs in the Hall?
Tim Raines
Schilling should be in the HOF. To keep him out due to his political views is fucking stupid.
Rogers Hornsby was a power hitter. Sheesh that guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
He hit for average too.
Schilling never won Cy Young either
Bonds made kent !!!
Hank aaron only one map that is criminal should of had 7
love biggio
but kent was so much better come the fuck on
Kent should definitely be in and Larry walker
Thurman Munson!!!
Schilling never won a Cy young
Nolan Ryan, Juan Marichal, Don Sutton and Phil Niekro
never won Cy Young too.
Chris Russo knows nothing about baseball. Why is he here?
they need the old crazy guy there