Yeah they were so damn fun and expressive, I honestly think they were better and allowed people to experiment once they got past the looking up optimal stuff phase. Old masteries were cool because you could 3 then 2 something and it was really fun, but impossible to understand for players that didnt put effort into it. I just wish secondary runes werent so game changing in leagues current state.
I miss Omnistone so much. There is very little reason it couldn't have been kept in as a for fun rune. Its infinite scaling nature coupled with its potential utility (rolling Phase Rush when you need to escape and Conquror when you need to go in) makes for a remarkably fun thing to run in unranked gamemodes.
In the last month or two of its lifetime I went looking for a better keystone to run on Kennen and ended up finding Omnistone to unironically be far better than I expected.
You could actually sort of control what you rolledtoo, it would given certain runes under certain circumstances. Oh, and Dark Harvest stacks also powered up other runes, it was actually really fun to mess around with.
@@ip-sum Right! It wasn't totally random and being able to have stronger keystones than everyone else was such a cool concept. If you want my opinion, I personally believe they removed it exclusively because they didn't want to mess with reprogramming it to accommodate first strike.
although im nostalgic for old runes, im glad some of them didn't make it today. can you imagine the combo of deathfire touch + liandry's + demonic embrace on someone like brand or malzahar?
Yeah that would SUCK. It's possible that if they had kept the game mechanics the same, they would've probably add a rune or item to counteract AP damage over time. But idk
@@foxyfriend45They did, it was called adaptive helm, an mr item that was as good as spirit visage. They got rid of it 1-2 seasons before they remade the item system and added mythoc items
I mean, demonic embrace wasn't a thing but it's also not as strong as people think. DFT was actually better on karthus and Jhin than Malz and Brand back in the day.
There's a crucial difference in Thunderlord's Decree and Electrocute is that Thunderlord's only took 3 instances of damage to proc it, including items. So a single Morgana W could proc it within 2 seconds, or an Orianna's QW combo with luden's echo effect. And when an item called Hextech Revolver was still around(behaving similarly to the current hextech alternator albeit only for normal attacks) and gave 40AP, a lv7 Sona with it(the hextech revolver) and 4 points in Q could take 60% HP of an ADC with a Q into power chord and hextech revolver, triggering Thunderlord's Decree. What a great time
Well buddy let me tell u back in my days we were no little sissys that needed recommended Items and jungle pathing. We bought Rabadons first on Yi and rekt the game while our Support Warded the entire Map with no Vision Limit. Those were the glory days ...... god i am glad those are over and we have a good game now
@@Blu_Moon_Owl It was kinda fun, i remember that one game where the enemy support and i would have a full blown vision war spending all our gold on Wards and Pink Wards to the point where the entire bottom River and Jungle was lit up for both teams. There was no fog of war anymore. It was fun but its one of those things "Funny memory, wouldnt want to do it again"
@@Blu_Moon_Owl Well Vision is important so having a high Vision score is nice. But im the end we are far past the days where Supports where glorified Ward Trinkets, u gotta bring more to the table than just vision. Also as Support not having the highest vision score is kinda hard. U literally have more wards at ur disposal than anyone else.
I really miss Kleptomancy. I used to play 2 of the biggest abusers of this rune. Ezreal and Illaoi (for those who don't know, Illaoi can proc items and runes, like grasp or Klepto on spirit pulled with e)
My favorite champion to abuse this rune although it goes under the radar was Ornn along with the inspiration tree you have more utility and gets a lot more when doing short trades. Buy items with his passive and get consumables when engaging on opponents and you have one handy man doing work.
I remember when people thought they brought back Kleptomancy with First Strike. Yet despite how many times I explained the cool down and clear counterplay mechanics people refused to believe it
God... Deathfire Touch was my gate out of gold with old Mordekaiser. You hit lvl 6: Ult, Ignite, Corrupting Potion and Deathfire Touch. You WILL get a ghost at pretty much half health.
You stole my comment lol 😂 I was just about to say Vars is heavily underrating how satisfying death fire touch was. I put 275k mastery on old mordekaiser top lane. Using his ultimate with that rune was pure satisfaction to watch. Plus his e poke.
The inspiration tree description says "Creative tools and rule bending." So looking at that and all the other runes there giving itens for free, it's easy to see the purpose of Cleptomancy. And BTW, the most toxic aspect of that rune was the condition to autoattack after casting an ability, which means it's easily abused by abilities that apply on-hit effects - specially GP and Ezreal. Besides other things, First Strike is healthier because it's triggered by any damage or cc.
old runes should make a comeback, if they didn't cost IP/BE or cost much, much less, it'd be awesome to be able to customise to that extent. I remember having unique rune pages. Movement speed quints, 2x 1% crit runes + armour pen reds, armour yellows and CDR blues...
The closest I could see to this is like the stat stuff we have in our current system. Maybe make it 6 total slots and we still have one of a few choices. I would love to have the 1% come back, it made for exciting moments
Honestly I have known someone for like 6 years who doesnt have every champ so it costing ip does not matter, and trickling mechanics to new players is a good thing anyway
i think the same cost, but if they gave every player like a free set or two of default runes so it wasnt empty. i think the punishing new players aspect was bad, but i liked the slow progression. it made every player have their own identity, since making a niche runepage was such a ip commitment
Kleptomancy fit a specific playstyle though. That being heavy scalers who could also easily proc the rune but like a lot of other runes it was just overly specific and the only champs that could reliably use it were pretty much kayle, gp and ez.
i miss old rune and mastery system before keystone masteries etc it felt like it was like they were misc bonuses but not that important but diverse enough every player had different rune/mastey page
It seems that the purpose of the inspiration tree was initially to allow for gold-starved supports access to stuff without needing that much gold. Like free boots, a free stopwatch through perfect timing, free health and mana through biscuit delivery, even the ability to spend gold they didn't have and, of course, the ability to earn gold by hitting their abilities through kleptomancy.
I was playing Karma at this time, and I fondly remember walking into lane bot with pretty much 2 free ult hat stacks already... glad that's gone, but good times.
Fun fact... Thunderlords Degree was a AOE effect. It has a tiny radius, but when Champ stand really close together you could hit multiple champs with 1 activation.
LMAO I still remeber that one game where I played as Zed, R onto a low health Ezreal, managed to E auto attack before he E away. Then the Mark pops triggering Thunderlords, killing him and the Teemo next to him.
I like runes but I wish they'd update it more often. I remember at some point a dev saying they want to have a 4th keystone option for each tree but I guess that idea was scrapped. Feels like they've just gotten stale at this point
I remember running a very specific rune setup to activate old Akali's passive, since she got on-hit damage and spellvamp after a certain amount of AD/AP. More than once did that fuck me when i forgot to switch runes because next game i would play something like lee sin with absolutely scuffed Akali runes.
The rune I miss most is ravenous hunter. It was omni-vamp before the term was used. And it was replaced by treasure hunter, which I never use because it doesn’t seem that impactful, in comparison. It was a very strong rune but I rarely saw it recommended, it felt very overlooked and it died without much outcry
with the old only stat runes i just equiped very single slot with the sme stat, crit, atkspeed, ap(or ap per level), it was fun, not optimal, but gave good early
Good old Runes, what a time. Gaining roughly 40 Attack, picking Sion, Leveling E first - BAM 120 AD on lvl 1. Hilarious. Its a fun time i foundly remember
To some extent a lot of these runes(and some masteries) felt closer to items than a sort of passive, most apparent with Kleptomancy being used by a majority of sheen users or the energized version of warlords bloodlust on statik shiv users. With that I think some of these old runes or masteries can comeback as items in and of itself. Runes should be wide and accessible to at least more than a few champions so that items are allowed to be niche. Of course there’s going to be best in slot runes that are more usable on specific champions to enable their strengths (Yasuo Conq and Lethal, Yone Lethal Tempo, Akali Electrocute and Conq etc.) But you are still able to use runes like Hail of blades, Electrocute or Grasp on them if you were to forget to change your runes. Wide spread usability: Runes Niche or “boring”: Items
I think that the old runes and masteries were overall worse (especially more boring) in terms of design. However, new runes aren't ideal; since their introduction the game has become much more snowbally in nature. What I would love to see is a few slight changes to this system, basically getting rid of the runes scaling with kills/participation (not the runes which stack infinitely, I think they are fine and fun), and giving more "specific scenario" ones like waterwalking or time warp tonic, or even they could add this 1% crit chance rune with something extra. I also believe that adding more keystones would be interesting and shift the meta a little bit.
I wish there was a a crit legend that would start at 1% then stack up to 20 so you could get 100% without having to buy all crit items or at least get it a bit earlier than hyper late game
@@dracomurdock6349 Additionally, you lose critical strike chance (from this rune stacks alone) after taking 2 critical hit from enemy champion. You lose all upon death.
The play style I see for Kleptomancy is either losing lane or going purely for item spikes, getting gold by hitting a champion when you are forced off your minions I see as nice because I usually get forced off mine. As well as item spikes I heard were key for some people winning lanes by getting kills so getting more money from that helps. The unfortunate part is it being abused for the other ways like how ezreal just gets to build anything he wants and curb stop people.
Omnistone was *fantastic* for high-awareness players due to two primary factors: 1) high rune uptime, as the cooldown of swapping to the next rune was much lower than the cooldown of any one rune 2) smart-rune system selected a rune that would be applicable in your situation: far away? Here's predator! Low enemy health? Dark harvest!
At least with First strike, you also get a decent value even after full build, since you still have the damage increase bonus, since, even though all of the randomness of Klepto was skill somewhat beneficial to the champion, reaching full build would kinda lock you out of a decent chunk of the utility of the rune, since it just gave you free gold or free items.
I remember one of the newer removed rune was called legend destroyer which gave both armor pen and magic pen up to 20 percent safe to say it was removed
I had one Page i always used with pure flat HP. Nobody engages a janna with 850HP lvl 1. And on some champs (volibear top) i even reached 1000HP level 1, which made you pretty much unfightable
I still believe the biggest downfall of Omnistone was that the Inspiration sub runes where grossly underpowered or too specific in comparison to the consistent sub-runes of the other trees, especially Ravenous Hunter from the Domination tree which has since been removed for being too difficult to balance. Similarly a lot of champions wanted to have at Triumph of the Precision tree, leaving very few rune pages that could get away with having the comparatively inconsistent Inspiration runes, especially since many inspiration runes are and have been very conditional or have limited uses. There are a lot of champions that could have gotten use out of the less consistent, but stronger and more frequent keystone activations of Omnistone, if only the supporting runes could have kept up with the competition of the time. Especially junglers that liked taking Predator could have gotten a lot of great use out of the rune. No dead keystone until you got boots, and once you did have boots and started getting predator activations you could still follow up with in combat keystone activations. They even added a system that weighed keystone likeliness to your current situation, making you more likely to roll Predator when you where far from enemy champions or Dark Harvest while a nearby enemy was low health.
Funnily enough, courage of the colossus is still present as a secondary rune in Wild rift, this makes me wonder if old runes will appear later in the game too
Death fire touch singed and jhin were so much fun. Singed was actually dealing damage when that rune was in the game. Jhin on the other hand abused it. Hiting only his w late game gave you like an additional 200 dmg burn or was it closer to 300
Old rune system was way better and interesting than the current base stat system we have. The only reason it was viewed so negatively was because on top of already needing IP to buy champions you also needed to buy runes, and rune pages if you wanted to flex into different roles. That's not even to mention some of the more for fun runes, like crit damage, would cost significantly more for no reason. If I remember correctly it would be about 2k for those quintessence compared to 1k for the more all purpose, like flat AD. The variety and possibilities in different pages was massive, I truly wish they would bring them back into the game. We can even edit pages in champ select now.
Man, I was expecting this to go FURTHER back to the old rune system that was unlocked as your profile levels up and felt far more rpg like since it tried to replicate DOTA which this was based off of and was completely removed for the rune and mastery stem that felt like WoW and onward.
I miss the old runes, but not the masteries. Being able to do absolutely bonkers pages like full attack speed Yi and almost die to blue buff, but also shred people in ganks, or full gold generation pages, or exp gain pages. There was for sure some degenerate gameplay there, but there was also much more room for expression
5:40 pretty sure courage of colossus was removed because it made certain tanks unkillable slabs of meat who you just could not out trade. Think maokai top, nautilus top, poppy top,etc. They where unbeatable in lane since sustain+courage made every trade automatically losing with the 2 layered shields they would get almost permanently.,
Good old klepto Ezreal. Just spam q and get your 2 item power spike very early, especially considering you used to build iceborn, which is much cheaper than Trinity. Not to mention you wanted to spam q anyways to stack manamune
My stance on runes is about the video you made earlier about them. The new system was designed to be flexible to have choices to make every game, but instead it is stale and most often a champion has just 1 rune page which is the best in 90% of cases. Also regarding your 1% crit chance rune, I can see a rune that says every 100th auto attack is a crit and you have a counter. It is the 1% crit rune, but no rng and can be used skill fully. Not sure if it is healthy for the game, but it doesn't seem that bad of a rune. Maybe less auto attacks as a single rune has more power now then it had before, so like every 50th auto attack or something.
Stormraider's Surge was a slept on Mastery. Was far superior to Phase Rush as any burst champ (ad or ap) could utilize it based on damage dealt rather than 3 hits in succession. GP with stormraiders was such a fun combo, hit a barrel>get insane move speed.
I really want to see some sort of rune that provides lategame crit in a gathering storm fashion, is it a boring statstick rune that every ADC will take? Yes, but it at least allows crit ADCs to have build variety. The fact that every ADC would change their runepage to slot this is more telling of the current state of the crit items than anything else
I liked the old system way more. Managing your stats to hit certain breaking points felt really good you could really taylor your setup to your needs. Now the system feels way more restricting. So many champions can't use all the runes and some runes are insanly broken on only a few champions. I feel like the system overall failed in its intended function and has less variety. Thanks for the dose of nostalgia tho Vars. I do enjoy your videos :)
@@LateBandwagon the expense was a choice they made, and would be SUPER easy to change (blue essence we use now is also WAY more plentiful, so thats a non-issue frankly). It wasnt any more complicated than any other game system is. Items in this game, especially now, are WAY more complicated than the old runes were, or the old mastery tree. You can just admit you prefer when things are so simple you dont have to think, its okay to be like that too. A lot of us still prefer having more engaging systems in place than 3 multiple choices where 2/3 of them make no sense on any given champ lol
Tbh, with all the talk atm of predator being bad or intentionally kept bad by riot cus its inherently bad design wise, i think they could bring back deathfire touch into the domination tree, obviously with some changes. Either keep it as a more prolonged dps oriented rune, or change it up to be burst focused to keep it in line with the rest of the runes in domination, say for example it procs a short powerful bleed similar to Talon passive after dealing x amount of a champions max health/hitting champs with a certain amount of abilities similar to electrocute/phase rush. Maybe make it a sort of finisher rune where it deals a short bleed burst of % missing health damage, again similar to Talon passive, to basically help finish off kills from assassins. Edit: Thinking about it I basically just described a less damage upfront version of Dark Harvest....
One thing i dont get about Camille is how people in the community love her if she represents the worst aspect of Piltover, and what i mean is love from a lore perspective.
Heres the thing for me: its not that the current system is BAD, cause its not, overall its pretty decently balanced. The issue I have is that most champs are pigeon holed into just a few choices, with anything else either being a self imposed handicap or a very niche sub optimal personal playstyle preference (often relying on the element of surprise for advantage). I miss the old runes and masteries not because they were inherently better or better balanced, but because they felt more custom and fun. Having a bunch of skill points you needed to invest into several trees felt like old school RPGs where you needed to actually think about your skill allotment and what specific key nodes you wanted to meet with your character. It also allowed for more flexibility on many champs. You could choose to be more defensive if you were into a bad matchup, or wanted to farm, or more aggressive if you liked ganking side lanes as mid for instance. The new runes feel more like the change from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3: for the sake of "accessibility" and easy to learn systems they removed much of the freedom of choice and customization you could engage with. Instead of an open tree that feels like unlimited possibility, you have a few distinct choices and there is ALWAYS one or two optimal choices, and the rest are just suboptimal handicaps you choose to engage with at your own risk. Theyre just not particularly engaging as a player, especially one who LIKES to play sort of off meta or theory craft your own builds and ways of playing. Previously you could do that and still feel fine even if other players disagreed with the choice, as the point of customizable systems like that was player choice freedom. Now the runes are SO specific and important for each champion that it legitimately feels like trolling to not take the "right" ones
I miss stormraider surge on assassins, the hit and run rush was great when you really know your champs damage well so you didn't feel chain to a rune for kill potential and instead could have meaningful utility in its place.
I personally liked Omnistone. Even if it was fairly niche, it could still work on a select few champs who didn't really have any set runes to go for. I remember enjoying it most on Teemo.
I really wish I got to play Omnistone Sett. No matter what negative comments about the rune people will insist I listen to. I really am dissatisfied I never got to play with it. I think if the rune itself gave bonus stats to your champion per level it would have some agency for its gimmick. As for the old stat shards I hear about. Man I wish you could straight up just choose. Pick a modern rune and not get them. Or pick an old one and get them. Do you how nice it would be to be able to have more than 8 MR from the shards into a lane I felt I need it?
some runes could be brought back Insperational body could be moved to the tank tree line and remove that deals 10% less dmg for the first 10 mins add it to where you still get the 100hp but units ( ally champs and minions) do 5-10% more dmg. aka your inspering people with your body to do more dmg. or if that cant work you take 10% less dmg. with kleptomancy remove the gaining skill points from it, and wards and lower the gold you get from it and i see it as fine hell when ti was in the game i didnt really have a problem with it. Ultimate hat already has a better version with Ultimate hunter but if i had to change it i would say instead of cooldown reduction change it to where casting your ult gives you.... something someone come up with this i cant think of anything tbh a few others jsut need slight reworks and they could be re added back.
i used to go Supp with the old Fiddlestick and proc Thunderlord's Decree with a single E, just spamming E on minions, rush hourglass and ult, easy brainless and very annoying to play against
For cleptomancy i'd argue that it's the opposite. I liked it because it actually encouraged you to interact with your opponent. I understand that it was quite toxic with champions like ezreal that can proc it from a safe distance, but for other champions it was actually totally useless when you were playing passively. Especially in farming lanes or when playing against tanks that are outright ignoring your damage cleptomancy made it so it's worth to trade with your opponent instead of afk farming. Since the removal of clepto i think i'm trading less than half as much with my opponents than with it.
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I miss the old runes, but I also recognize that what we have today is better overall. 1% crit will always have a special place in my heart though
I always called it the “Hero Quint” because when that 1% Crit landed, it made you feel like one of
Yeah they were so damn fun and expressive, I honestly think they were better and allowed people to experiment once they got past the looking up optimal stuff phase.
Old masteries were cool because you could 3 then 2 something and it was really fun, but impossible to understand for players that didnt put effort into it. I just wish secondary runes werent so game changing in leagues current state.
Also it sucks that some characters just dont have runes that are useable now too and others are reliant and super broken by them
@@SirKittersIItbh, i am entirely in favor of completely removing runes as a systen
@@SirKittersII runes that give such broken features like the old rune system are incredibly unhealthy and shouldnt exist
I miss Omnistone so much. There is very little reason it couldn't have been kept in as a for fun rune. Its infinite scaling nature coupled with its potential utility (rolling Phase Rush when you need to escape and Conquror when you need to go in) makes for a remarkably fun thing to run in unranked gamemodes.
In the last month or two of its lifetime I went looking for a better keystone to run on Kennen and ended up finding Omnistone to unironically be far better than I expected.
So the people who likes omnistone are real
@@Brukemit was fun, but it was super useless. I played this rune sometimes in normal
You could actually sort of control what you rolledtoo, it would given certain runes under certain circumstances.
Oh, and Dark Harvest stacks also powered up other runes, it was actually really fun to mess around with.
@@ip-sum Right! It wasn't totally random and being able to have stronger keystones than everyone else was such a cool concept. If you want my opinion, I personally believe they removed it exclusively because they didn't want to mess with reprogramming it to accommodate first strike.
although im nostalgic for old runes, im glad some of them didn't make it today. can you imagine the combo of deathfire touch + liandry's + demonic embrace on someone like brand or malzahar?
Yeah that would SUCK. It's possible that if they had kept the game mechanics the same, they would've probably add a rune or item to counteract AP damage over time. But idk
@@foxyfriend45They did, it was called adaptive helm, an mr item that was as good as spirit visage. They got rid of it 1-2 seasons before they remade the item system and added mythoc items
Oh, yeah I vaguely remember those seasons. Mainly it was because I was 5 - 9. But thank you nonetheless@@darkening78
Old morde.
I mean, demonic embrace wasn't a thing but it's also not as strong as people think. DFT was actually better on karthus and Jhin than Malz and Brand back in the day.
There's a crucial difference in Thunderlord's Decree and Electrocute is that Thunderlord's only took 3 instances of damage to proc it, including items. So a single Morgana W could proc it within 2 seconds, or an Orianna's QW combo with luden's echo effect.
And when an item called Hextech Revolver was still around(behaving similarly to the current hextech alternator albeit only for normal attacks) and gave 40AP, a lv7 Sona with it(the hextech revolver) and 4 points in Q could take 60% HP of an ADC with a Q into power chord and hextech revolver, triggering Thunderlord's Decree. What a great time
I only started playing League at the beginning of this year so videos like this are cool to watch to give insight of League’s history
Well buddy let me tell u back in my days we were no little sissys that needed recommended Items and jungle pathing. We bought Rabadons first on Yi and rekt the game while our Support Warded the entire Map with no Vision Limit. Those were the glory days ...... god i am glad those are over and we have a good game now
@@holschermarc sounds ridiculous and awesome
@@Blu_Moon_Owl It was kinda fun, i remember that one game where the enemy support and i would have a full blown vision war spending all our gold on Wards and Pink Wards to the point where the entire bottom River and Jungle was lit up for both teams. There was no fog of war anymore. It was fun but its one of those things "Funny memory, wouldnt want to do it again"
@@holschermarc sounds hilarious. A friend of mine who mains support always wants to have the highest vision score and like to brag about it
@@Blu_Moon_Owl Well Vision is important so having a high Vision score is nice. But im the end we are far past the days where Supports where glorified Ward Trinkets, u gotta bring more to the table than just vision. Also as Support not having the highest vision score is kinda hard. U literally have more wards at ur disposal than anyone else.
I really miss Kleptomancy. I used to play 2 of the biggest abusers of this rune. Ezreal and Illaoi (for those who don't know, Illaoi can proc items and runes, like grasp or Klepto on spirit pulled with e)
i wish i picked up illaoi during the old klepto days 😄
My favorite champion to abuse this rune although it goes under the radar was Ornn along with the inspiration tree you have more utility and gets a lot more when doing short trades. Buy items with his passive and get consumables when engaging on opponents and you have one handy man doing work.
I remember when people thought they brought back Kleptomancy with First Strike.
Yet despite how many times I explained the cool down and clear counterplay mechanics people refused to believe it
I used to run klepto on swain and it was so fun
Don't forget about gp
Pressing q on enemy all day and getting free shit for that was the best
God... Deathfire Touch was my gate out of gold with old Mordekaiser.
You hit lvl 6: Ult, Ignite, Corrupting Potion and Deathfire Touch.
You WILL get a ghost at pretty much half health.
You stole my comment lol 😂 I was just about to say Vars is heavily underrating how satisfying death fire touch was. I put 275k mastery on old mordekaiser top lane. Using his ultimate with that rune was pure satisfaction to watch. Plus his e poke.
Imagine using ignite on morde 💀
Runic affinity felt soo good. Klepto legit made me a Camille OTP so fun and the leads were insane
Camille On The Phone?
What’s OTP
@@yorhaunit21o32
One trick (pony)
@@yorhaunit21o32they only play one champ
@@mariostoynov can we all delete our comments, I don’t wanna look stupid
The inspiration tree description says "Creative tools and rule bending." So looking at that and all the other runes there giving itens for free, it's easy to see the purpose of Cleptomancy.
And BTW, the most toxic aspect of that rune was the condition to autoattack after casting an ability, which means it's easily abused by abilities that apply on-hit effects - specially GP and Ezreal. Besides other things, First Strike is healthier because it's triggered by any damage or cc.
And has long cool down and counter play.
If you don't get the first strike you don't have a keystone
old runes should make a comeback, if they didn't cost IP/BE or cost much, much less, it'd be awesome to be able to customise to that extent. I remember having unique rune pages. Movement speed quints, 2x 1% crit runes + armour pen reds, armour yellows and CDR blues...
The closest I could see to this is like the stat stuff we have in our current system. Maybe make it 6 total slots and we still have one of a few choices. I would love to have the 1% come back, it made for exciting moments
Honestly I have known someone for like 6 years who doesnt have every champ so it costing ip does not matter, and trickling mechanics to new players is a good thing anyway
i think the same cost, but if they gave every player like a free set or two of default runes so it wasnt empty. i think the punishing new players aspect was bad, but i liked the slow progression. it made every player have their own identity, since making a niche runepage was such a ip commitment
I remember Death Fire Touch being used for Kayn since it's damage counted torwards his forms. You could transform super early in the game
Death Fire Touch walked so Summon Aery could run
@@itsnickbabe5880now summon Aery got nerfed on kayn 😂
Klepto illaoi was one of my fav comboes of all time
Steal their souls and gold
Klepto GP still gives my nightmares
Pepto GP more like 😂
Courage of the Colossus was added on Wild Rift as a resolve rune which is really interesting
Kleptomancy fit a specific playstyle though. That being heavy scalers who could also easily proc the rune but like a lot of other runes it was just overly specific and the only champs that could reliably use it were pretty much kayle, gp and ez.
The 1% crit rune was perfect.
thanks for the trip down memory lane
i miss old rune and mastery system before keystone masteries etc it felt like it was like they were misc bonuses but not that important but diverse enough every player had different rune/mastey page
Klepto wasn't for slowing enemy tempo, hit and runs, or sustained damage. It was for fun.
It seems that the purpose of the inspiration tree was initially to allow for gold-starved supports access to stuff without needing that much gold. Like free boots, a free stopwatch through perfect timing, free health and mana through biscuit delivery, even the ability to spend gold they didn't have and, of course, the ability to earn gold by hitting their abilities through kleptomancy.
AYY YO WTF WAS THATS HEALING? 1180+ out of nowehere WTF 2:19
I was playing Karma at this time, and I fondly remember walking into lane bot with pretty much 2 free ult hat stacks already... glad that's gone, but good times.
Fun fact... Thunderlords Degree was a AOE effect. It has a tiny radius, but when Champ stand really close together you could hit multiple champs with 1 activation.
LMAO I still remeber that one game where I played as Zed, R onto a low health Ezreal, managed to E auto attack before he E away. Then the Mark pops triggering Thunderlords, killing him and the Teemo next to him.
@@duytran9086 Teemo deserves it >:3c
@@duytran9086 He played Teemo, he signed up for this :D
I like runes but I wish they'd update it more often. I remember at some point a dev saying they want to have a 4th keystone option for each tree but I guess that idea was scrapped. Feels like they've just gotten stale at this point
I used to run the 1% crit rune for every character and pissed way too many people off by killing them with a crit lmao.
I remember running a very specific rune setup to activate old Akali's passive, since she got on-hit damage and spellvamp after a certain amount of AD/AP.
More than once did that fuck me when i forgot to switch runes because next game i would play something like lee sin with absolutely scuffed Akali runes.
The rune I miss most is ravenous hunter. It was omni-vamp before the term was used. And it was replaced by treasure hunter, which I never use because it doesn’t seem that impactful, in comparison. It was a very strong rune but I rarely saw it recommended, it felt very overlooked and it died without much outcry
I always took it when i was in the red tree, it was especially cool on Champions with no built in sustain (Riven for example)
with the old only stat runes i just equiped very single slot with the sme stat, crit, atkspeed, ap(or ap per level), it was fun, not optimal, but gave good early
I want a replacement for Kleptomancy. I'm still pissed they removed it. I loved getting little bags of random goodies.
Good old Runes, what a time. Gaining roughly 40 Attack, picking Sion, Leveling E first - BAM 120 AD on lvl 1. Hilarious. Its a fun time i foundly remember
Wish they added Kleptomancy and Omnistone just for fun
To some extent a lot of these runes(and some masteries) felt closer to items than a sort of passive, most apparent with Kleptomancy being used by a majority of sheen users or the energized version of warlords bloodlust on statik shiv users.
With that I think some of these old runes or masteries can comeback as items in and of itself. Runes should be wide and accessible to at least more than a few champions so that items are allowed to be niche.
Of course there’s going to be best in slot runes that are more usable on specific champions to enable their strengths (Yasuo Conq and Lethal, Yone Lethal Tempo, Akali Electrocute and Conq etc.) But you are still able to use runes like Hail of blades, Electrocute or Grasp on them if you were to forget to change your runes.
Wide spread usability: Runes
Niche or “boring”: Items
I think that the old runes and masteries were overall worse (especially more boring) in terms of design. However, new runes aren't ideal; since their introduction the game has become much more snowbally in nature. What I would love to see is a few slight changes to this system, basically getting rid of the runes scaling with kills/participation (not the runes which stack infinitely, I think they are fine and fun), and giving more "specific scenario" ones like waterwalking or time warp tonic, or even they could add this 1% crit chance rune with something extra. I also believe that adding more keystones would be interesting and shift the meta a little bit.
The runes play a huge Role nowadays. If you accidently forget to change it and have the wrong one with you it feels like ff15
I wish there was a a crit legend that would start at 1% then stack up to 20 so you could get 100% without having to buy all crit items or at least get it a bit earlier than hyper late game
Maybe he would get 1% crit rate for every spell landed?
Shooting Blind - Precision Keystone
Gain 1% critical strike chance. When you critically strike a champion, gain 1% critical strike chance, max 20%.
@@dracomurdock6349 Additionally, you lose critical strike chance (from this rune stacks alone) after taking 2 critical hit from enemy champion. You lose all upon death.
The play style I see for Kleptomancy is either losing lane or going purely for item spikes, getting gold by hitting a champion when you are forced off your minions I see as nice because I usually get forced off mine. As well as item spikes I heard were key for some people winning lanes by getting kills so getting more money from that helps. The unfortunate part is it being abused for the other ways like how ezreal just gets to build anything he wants and curb stop people.
Omnistone was *fantastic* for high-awareness players due to two primary factors:
1) high rune uptime, as the cooldown of swapping to the next rune was much lower than the cooldown of any one rune
2) smart-rune system selected a rune that would be applicable in your situation: far away? Here's predator! Low enemy health? Dark harvest!
I really miss cleptomancy. It was so much fun on Sona. I mean using an Ability (Q) and AA is literally Sonas Base Combo :D
2:10 By the way this Mastery worked on Xins 3rd AA too. So yeah it was kinda broken on him :D
Klepto was for champions who just needed gold to scale but didn't need a rune for mid-late game. Great for lane and being able to scale
Klepto illaoi is still haunting me in nightmares
When they released Warlord Bloodlust with AS on Crit. Xin Zhao Passive 3rd Auto use to work on the Rune, fun times
At least with First strike, you also get a decent value even after full build, since you still have the damage increase bonus, since, even though all of the randomness of Klepto was skill somewhat beneficial to the champion, reaching full build would kinda lock you out of a decent chunk of the utility of the rune, since it just gave you free gold or free items.
I remember one of the newer removed rune was called legend destroyer which gave both armor pen and magic pen up to 20 percent safe to say it was removed
now I feel old and I'm not even old. I miss my old armor pen/lethality quints.
I used to take a mixture of atk spd and ad red runes to farm easier on mages. Old runes give everyone their one signatures
I had one Page i always used with pure flat HP. Nobody engages a janna with 850HP lvl 1. And on some champs (volibear top) i even reached 1000HP level 1, which made you pretty much unfightable
I still believe the biggest downfall of Omnistone was that the Inspiration sub runes where grossly underpowered or too specific in comparison to the consistent sub-runes of the other trees, especially Ravenous Hunter from the Domination tree which has since been removed for being too difficult to balance. Similarly a lot of champions wanted to have at Triumph of the Precision tree, leaving very few rune pages that could get away with having the comparatively inconsistent Inspiration runes, especially since many inspiration runes are and have been very conditional or have limited uses.
There are a lot of champions that could have gotten use out of the less consistent, but stronger and more frequent keystone activations of Omnistone, if only the supporting runes could have kept up with the competition of the time. Especially junglers that liked taking Predator could have gotten a lot of great use out of the rune. No dead keystone until you got boots, and once you did have boots and started getting predator activations you could still follow up with in combat keystone activations. They even added a system that weighed keystone likeliness to your current situation, making you more likely to roll Predator when you where far from enemy champions or Dark Harvest while a nearby enemy was low health.
Funnily enough, courage of the colossus is still present as a secondary rune in Wild rift, this makes me wonder if old runes will appear later in the game too
Kind of funny only a few mentioned that a few of these did return via wild rift (although a few did get shafted like Klept)
I would like to hear a video about the OG Runes and Summoner Masteries before the 2015 rework.
Death fire touch singed and jhin were so much fun. Singed was actually dealing damage when that rune was in the game. Jhin on the other hand abused it. Hiting only his w late game gave you like an additional 200 dmg burn or was it closer to 300
I miss klepto illaoi 😢
Old rune system was way better and interesting than the current base stat system we have. The only reason it was viewed so negatively was because on top of already needing IP to buy champions you also needed to buy runes, and rune pages if you wanted to flex into different roles. That's not even to mention some of the more for fun runes, like crit damage, would cost significantly more for no reason. If I remember correctly it would be about 2k for those quintessence compared to 1k for the more all purpose, like flat AD. The variety and possibilities in different pages was massive, I truly wish they would bring them back into the game. We can even edit pages in champ select now.
Man, I was expecting this to go FURTHER back to the old rune system that was unlocked as your profile levels up and felt far more rpg like since it tried to replicate DOTA which this was based off of and was completely removed for the rune and mastery stem that felt like WoW and onward.
I missed old rune pages system. I'd always used all of the + x gold per 10 secs runes and get a full 1 or 2 Item ahead as a support.
I miss the old runes, but not the masteries. Being able to do absolutely bonkers pages like full attack speed Yi and almost die to blue buff, but also shred people in ganks, or full gold generation pages, or exp gain pages. There was for sure some degenerate gameplay there, but there was also much more room for expression
i think fervor and stormraider's surge should be brought back to replace the broken phase rush and the formerly broken now useless conqueror
Klepto on Kayle for the earlier ranged form was pretty nice, but then I remember kayle wasnt ranged until the second point in her ult.
You have E for that
Gives spell blade effect + range then bam
5:40 pretty sure courage of colossus was removed because it made certain tanks unkillable slabs of meat who you just could not out trade. Think maokai top, nautilus top, poppy top,etc. They where unbeatable in lane since sustain+courage made every trade automatically losing with the 2 layered shields they would get almost permanently.,
Good old klepto Ezreal. Just spam q and get your 2 item power spike very early, especially considering you used to build iceborn, which is much cheaper than Trinity. Not to mention you wanted to spam q anyways to stack manamune
My stance on runes is about the video you made earlier about them. The new system was designed to be flexible to have choices to make every game, but instead it is stale and most often a champion has just 1 rune page which is the best in 90% of cases.
Also regarding your 1% crit chance rune, I can see a rune that says every 100th auto attack is a crit and you have a counter. It is the 1% crit rune, but no rng and can be used skill fully. Not sure if it is healthy for the game, but it doesn't seem that bad of a rune. Maybe less auto attacks as a single rune has more power now then it had before, so like every 50th auto attack or something.
Stormraider's Surge was a slept on Mastery. Was far superior to Phase Rush as any burst champ (ad or ap) could utilize it based on damage dealt rather than 3 hits in succession. GP with stormraiders was such a fun combo, hit a barrel>get insane move speed.
I miss old runes and masteries :c +100 ad sion at lvl 1 was pretty frightening
I will argue that death fire touch was amazing on Lux. Everyone preferred thunder lord's, but death fire was amazing on her.
You say there was no shield breaking effects for the shield runes in 2018 but irelia rework had shield break for quite a while on her passive
I'll never forget double edged sword. Dealing more damage in exchange for taking more was cool. Rip masteries and runes :^(
I Think Dangerous Game was also a way cooler Name for what now is Triumph. It worked nearly the same but... dangerous game :(
I really want to see some sort of rune that provides lategame crit in a gathering storm fashion, is it a boring statstick rune that every ADC will take? Yes, but it at least allows crit ADCs to have build variety.
The fact that every ADC would change their runepage to slot this is more telling of the current state of the crit items than anything else
I liked the old system way more. Managing your stats to hit certain breaking points felt really good you could really taylor your setup to your needs. Now the system feels way more restricting. So many champions can't use all the runes and some runes are insanly broken on only a few champions. I feel like the system overall failed in its intended function and has less variety.
Thanks for the dose of nostalgia tho Vars. I do enjoy your videos :)
Old gimmick was unnecessarily expensive and complicated. New one you can figure out what to take and switch on the fly way easier
It’s all fun and games until your grinding games just to buy a Quintessence of attack speed or whatever
@@LateBandwagon yeah expensive was bs that is true but what gimmick? And how are they more complicated than the current system?
@@LateBandwagon the expense was a choice they made, and would be SUPER easy to change (blue essence we use now is also WAY more plentiful, so thats a non-issue frankly). It wasnt any more complicated than any other game system is. Items in this game, especially now, are WAY more complicated than the old runes were, or the old mastery tree.
You can just admit you prefer when things are so simple you dont have to think, its okay to be like that too.
A lot of us still prefer having more engaging systems in place than 3 multiple choices where 2/3 of them make no sense on any given champ lol
Wouldn’t mind seeing them use some of the old tunes in arena mode
RIP the 1% crit rune. It was my dirty pleasure to win lane by getting a crit when proc'ing Lux passive or using Viktor Q.
Tbh, with all the talk atm of predator being bad or intentionally kept bad by riot cus its inherently bad design wise, i think they could bring back deathfire touch into the domination tree, obviously with some changes. Either keep it as a more prolonged dps oriented rune, or change it up to be burst focused to keep it in line with the rest of the runes in domination, say for example it procs a short powerful bleed similar to Talon passive after dealing x amount of a champions max health/hitting champs with a certain amount of abilities similar to electrocute/phase rush. Maybe make it a sort of finisher rune where it deals a short bleed burst of % missing health damage, again similar to Talon passive, to basically help finish off kills from assassins.
Edit: Thinking about it I basically just described a less damage upfront version of Dark Harvest....
One thing i dont get about Camille is how people in the community love her if she represents the worst aspect of Piltover, and what i mean is love from a lore perspective.
Old runes were weird but masteries were very fun, so much fun
I would love to be able to play with the old runes knowing what i know now about game mechanics and common sense!
klepto adhered to F U N
full build ornn with infinite mana and gold who has never backed or died because he ran klepto was soo much fun
"Talking about removed items, abilities, champions, even ...." was perfect
oh my god! courage of the colossus is currently present in wild rift
Everyday I still miss her so much, come back to me Klepto
It's the most fun rune to play with, especially with Susan and pre-rework Mord
Top tanks take grasp and support and jg tanks take aftershock and i think this is perfect and the way it should be
I miss my Klepto Udyr( RUdyr). It allowed you to spend more than 18 skillpoints.
do you remember having to BUY your runes, with the same currency you bought champions with, changing to the current rune design is so much better.
man that 1% crit rune back in the day came in clutch more times than my support ever did LOL
I remember losing lane to a corki at level 2 when he crit me twice in a row. Good times
Heres the thing for me: its not that the current system is BAD, cause its not, overall its pretty decently balanced. The issue I have is that most champs are pigeon holed into just a few choices, with anything else either being a self imposed handicap or a very niche sub optimal personal playstyle preference (often relying on the element of surprise for advantage).
I miss the old runes and masteries not because they were inherently better or better balanced, but because they felt more custom and fun. Having a bunch of skill points you needed to invest into several trees felt like old school RPGs where you needed to actually think about your skill allotment and what specific key nodes you wanted to meet with your character. It also allowed for more flexibility on many champs. You could choose to be more defensive if you were into a bad matchup, or wanted to farm, or more aggressive if you liked ganking side lanes as mid for instance.
The new runes feel more like the change from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3: for the sake of "accessibility" and easy to learn systems they removed much of the freedom of choice and customization you could engage with. Instead of an open tree that feels like unlimited possibility, you have a few distinct choices and there is ALWAYS one or two optimal choices, and the rest are just suboptimal handicaps you choose to engage with at your own risk. Theyre just not particularly engaging as a player, especially one who LIKES to play sort of off meta or theory craft your own builds and ways of playing.
Previously you could do that and still feel fine even if other players disagreed with the choice, as the point of customizable systems like that was player choice freedom. Now the runes are SO specific and important for each champion that it legitimately feels like trolling to not take the "right" ones
I miss stormraider surge on assassins, the hit and run rush was great when you really know your champs damage well so you didn't feel chain to a rune for kill potential and instead could have meaningful utility in its place.
They brought it back as a mage item on the new season
I personally liked Omnistone. Even if it was fairly niche, it could still work on a select few champs who didn't really have any set runes to go for. I remember enjoying it most on Teemo.
Its was so good on ezrael
The real devastation was losing 1% crit rune and 3% movespeed rune
I miss Klepto and the old runes and masteries before what we have now
I really wish I got to play Omnistone Sett.
No matter what negative comments about the rune people will insist I listen to. I really am dissatisfied I never got to play with it.
I think if the rune itself gave bonus stats to your champion per level it would have some agency for its gimmick.
As for the old stat shards I hear about. Man I wish you could straight up just choose.
Pick a modern rune and not get them. Or pick an old one and get them.
Do you how nice it would be to be able to have more than 8 MR from the shards into a lane I felt I need it?
Super surprised you didnt talk about stormraiders surge. That is the keystone i miss more than anything on melee champs
That's almost literally phase rush. I think phase rush even has a lower cooldown.
@@dracomurdock6349 it's really not, the condition to hit 3 abilities is a lot more inconsistent than just doing 30% of someone's hp.
@@omega4223oh hey that's an item now but only for AP
@@dizzyheads except... it gives half of it and no slow resistance.
Klepto was by far worse that first strike ever will be, cannot be persuaded otherwise, Kayle and GP with that were so beyond dumb lol
I miss the 1% crit chance rune too.. I used 2 of them. RNGesus was a tender, loving god...
i hope they add overall more runes and more flexibilty in runes
some runes could be brought back
Insperational body could be moved to the tank tree line and remove that deals 10% less dmg for the first 10 mins
add it to where you still get the 100hp but units ( ally champs and minions) do 5-10% more dmg. aka your inspering people with your body to do more dmg. or if that cant work you take 10% less dmg.
with kleptomancy remove the gaining skill points from it, and wards and lower the gold you get from it and i see it as fine hell when ti was in the game i didnt really have a problem with it.
Ultimate hat already has a better version with Ultimate hunter but if i had to change it i would say instead of cooldown reduction change it to where casting your ult gives you.... something someone come up with this i cant think of anything tbh
a few others jsut need slight reworks and they could be re added back.
I miss kleptomanci Illaoi support, it was the only way to play her on the botlane
Gone are the days where an Alistair support could start with over 900hp...
i used to go Supp with the old Fiddlestick and proc Thunderlord's Decree with a single E, just spamming E on minions, rush hourglass and ult, easy brainless and very annoying to play against
I miss old gp with thunderlords, being 5-10% hp against a gp was a death sentence compared to how it is now lol
Being low hp against gp is always death sentence
Especially if he got collector 😂
For cleptomancy i'd argue that it's the opposite. I liked it because it actually encouraged you to interact with your opponent. I understand that it was quite toxic with champions like ezreal that can proc it from a safe distance, but for other champions it was actually totally useless when you were playing passively. Especially in farming lanes or when playing against tanks that are outright ignoring your damage cleptomancy made it so it's worth to trade with your opponent instead of afk farming. Since the removal of clepto i think i'm trading less than half as much with my opponents than with it.
Old runes would be superior if they didn't cost BE, the fact you can make whatever you wanted was so fun
@@kosmique thank you mr ackshually