Bromptons are meant for 'active' commuters who may use fold/unfold the bike frequently to utilize public transport. The Dahon is a folding bike, but better for those who need a folded bike for compact storage - say if you live in an apartment, or plan to carry a folding bike by car to your destination as apposed to public transport. Bromptons are more collectible though.
What do y'all think if I bike 20-30 mins to work and mainly want the folding for when I bring the bike up to the office? The smaller folding size and separation of the wheels from the carpet make the brompton appealing, also for the occasional bus/subway ride. But the larger wheel/tire size of the Dahon seems more appealing for ride comfort/potholes/bumpy urban terrain, as well as for efficiency over longer rides (sometimes I bike up to 2h in a day going around the city, though not all in one go) Update: based on your How Fast is a Brompton video, my 4-5 km commute would just be a 1-2 min difference between a brompton and road bike, so the difference would likely be smaller between the Dahon and a Brompton, so perhaps the longer ride advantage isn't that significant in my case (where longer ride for me is 5-10 km)
@@play150I’ve had both. Dahon was so clunky when folding/unfolding. Brompton is a pleasure (all the R&D and engineering shows). I don’t notice any performance difference from the wheels size.
@@shinhochulpI ended up getting a Zizzo which is pretty similar to the Dahon. I got a rear rack with small wheels so I still get the separation from the carpet. I think that it's pretty good/similar riding as a regular bike. When folded up it's fairly compact, but I often still am longing for an even smaller folded package when I'm at the office/on the train etc. And a faster folding/unfolding bike. I've been going around bike lock-free hoping to fold it and bring it in with me. Haven't run into any big problems other than it being awkward to lug around since it's like having a suitcase with you. Overall it works, though I might go back to carrying a lock again. I wonder if it's a grass is greener thing where I would've wondered about getting better ride feel/efficiency if I went with the Brompton. One thing hard to argue with is the price, as the Zizzo was like 300 USD on sale last Xmas from Target so I think the downsides may be worth the large price difference. With the rear rack and other things (eg brompton adapter for front bags), the bike reaches 500-600 USD.
I'm Dahon because, Ive got two Dahons the Vybe D7 and the K3. Vybe great with 7 speeds and the K3 is one of the lightest folding, compact bikes going around to take on public transport and theres still alot of change before you buy even one Brompton. Thats why.
As a Brompton owner I think you did a great job talking about it's strengths and weaknesses. It's biggest weakness imo is comfort, for a bike that is built for city streets which are rarely smooth, the tyre choice is not wide enough. If only they offered enough frame clearance for up to a 50mm tyre it could be the perfect bike for the city and trail.
I fully agree! I've seen other 16" bikes that run with wider tires with a fraction of the tire pressure. I feel that that would help quite a bit with traction, comfort, and reducing punctures, at the cost of a little additional weight (more material in the wheel, tube and tire) I wonder if Slightly widening the front fork and rear triangle would add any additional weight to the frame itself?
A Brompton is a special tool for certain purposes! It is more heavy to ride, even with the high pressure in the wheels! Its main purpose is its extreme foldability! The long time development has made it rather unique, also compared with the many Clones made from the concept, which mostly lacks the High End product which Brompton offers! Those who follow in the footsteps, will never come first!
Thank you for this video! If you don't consider the price, the Brompton get 57/80 (71%), the Dahon 52/80 (65%). With the Brompton, you get 5% to 10% (depending how you count) «more» bike but for more that two times the price... Price-performance ratio seems to me definitively in favor of Dahon.
I almost purchased a Dahon used for $300. Lucky for me, I was gifted a Brompton! The funny thing about it, I had no idea how popular either bikes are especially the Brompton. I am so blessed to have this bike.Thanks for the video comparison. I had no idea how great they are.
I bought a Dahon Speed Uno with 20 inch wheels, no gears. Very practical bike for $500. I decided to get a Brompton C line for $2,000. Loved the Brompton, fast and compact. But not as comfortable to ride as the Dahon in the city of Chicago. So now I’m back to riding the Dahon and considering getting the Mariner D8 which seems like the best overall choice. The Brompton has its place for going into restaurants and stores where it’s easier to carry.
I have a Dahon, and commute on it daily, and never 've been dissapointed. Now that I want to travel arround the country, on my car, I wish it could have the Bromton's folding size to save that extra little space in the trunk.
I’m grateful for your almost scientific methodology and weighing scheme when you give points to the contenders. Due to the high second hand value of the Brompton, the investment is well worth it in the end. 🚲
I would compare the Brompton with the Tern Verge S8i. For the same price of a Brompton, you can buy the Verge S8i and you will get: hydraulic disk brakes, front and tail light with dynamo, Andros stem, 8 speed internal gear hub and carbon belt; along with a more solid bike for almost every road. Brompton are an engineering beauty tough
It's a nice comparison from a design perspective with technical approach. Accidentally that helped me choosing wheel size between 16" and 20" with gear already near the ground (< 4"). It's just amazing how much knowledge there was. (I've been riding bikes just 40 years but just knowing how to replacing tires.) Your systematic way and articulation were enhancing.
For me, the best thing about the Brompton is the shopping trolley mode and just how quickly it all folds up. That speed of folding is super handy when ducking to the supermarket for a few items for dinner. Roll up right to the door of the supermarket, trolley mode in 5 seconds, shop, start unfolding it soon as I set foot outside again and i'm off.
I've been carrying a Montague folder for several years in my small plane, converted to e power no less, and though i can it get it out and ride off in only 3 minutes, sometimes that's too long! I'm looking forward to the super quick Brompton unfolding/riding off process.
@portnuefflyer Gilbert’s first folding bike was a Montague as well (Paratrooper/Hummer). Great, robust “ride anywhere” bike, but awkward for air travel (although we did go to France and Cuba with it) We eventually transitioned to Brompton for its smaller fold (we do have to select smoother routes however). Enjoy your new bike.
@@2Bikes4Adventure First flight with it today, I just need to get from the airstrip to an auto parts store about 1.5 miles away on a level paved street, where packing my Montague e bike would be overkill. A brief ride in my home driveway made me realize, it's been years since I've ridden a pedal only bike! I have several e bikes, and the pedal only Brompton is amazingly flickable and easy to pedal compared to what I'm used to!
Incredibly well thought out and presented video. Technical yet approachable. WOW. One of the best comparison videos I have ever seen in over a decade! Dahon for riding, Brompton for packing and carrying. Dahon using standard easily serviced, and off the shelf parts available drivetrain and brakes. Brompton is cool and super small. Dahon 20" wheels matter, especially since they can be inflated at a lower pressure as you mention. I find that in Bicycles and motorcycles, tires provide a first line of defense for small road imperfections that are transmitted to the hands and wrists, even before traditional suspension. I loved the woman's voice also.
Excellent comparison between the two bikes. I would choose to have both, use the Brompton on better road surface and the Dahon for more challenging road condition.
The Bromptons folded size conquers all. The only issue for many people is the price, although a good bicycle has always been in that price range, and a Brompton can be ridden to the end of your days and then be ridden by your grandchildren.
Excellent comparison. I own a brompton ti and Dahon Speed TR. Brompton us very suitable for city with multiple mode of transport. As my current location is seaside long road, low traffic and no train. Brompton has been sitting quietly for about 4+ years. Dahon has been my main bicycle. Probably should do a video on this different locations. Brompton has accompany me to many short city tours. It's a great machine. As it's been sitting too long now I am considering selling it off and get something else.
We owned 2 Dahon TR for many years. We were pleased with the “touring oriented” design (gearing, dual racks, dynamo, Ergon grips, Big Apple tires….). However, it was disappointing the stem didn’t fold between both wheels, making the entire folded bicycle a lot bigger it needed to be. For air travel packing (as well as the occasional bus/train ride abroad), this became a show stopper. We transitioned to Brompton due to its smaller size and eventually sold the TRs.
Replacing the original Brompton steel seatpost with admittedly more expensive titanium post will noticeably improve comfort. It is the first aftermarket improvement one should consider for lightness, shock absorption and is corrosion free.
@@carrickdubya4765 You don't want the added worry of CF snapping while out on a long tour. Otherwise, they're probably fine for city riding and commutes.
Excellent comparison . I have a Brompton and a Tern D7i. The Brompton is the clear winner for my daily commute by train. You can store it anywhere. The Tern is the clear winner for the price, the standard replacement parts and especially for the riding comfort. The 50 mm Schwalbe Big Apple tires are superbe. Tern also offers a wide range of bags, both for front and rear.
I had a Dahon MUI then bought a Brompton, the Brompton can be a tad skittish due to the 16" wheels compared to the Dahon's 20" wheels but the Brompton is basically designed for cities and as a commuting bike, I know have 3 and the GF 1, mine are a 2015 Lime Green S3L, 2022 Flame Lacquer H6L Electric and a 2008 S2L striped down hack bike, the girlfriend has an Orange Black Edition H2L and loves it.
I have a p line and a zizzo liberte 20" folder. i like them both and wouldn't part with either one. The Brompton is fun and fast urban bike great for bus and train use as is the zizzo. The zizzo is better for a little rough use like camping and it cheap and easy to work on and only cost $450 They both weigh in at 24 lbs and the bags are interchangeable which is priceless.
Really happy to find this. I own 2 Dahons. We did one long ride through England (C2C) and Western Europe. Love the bikes but in Canada it’s hard to find parts or even dealers. I need a front wheel for a Speed D8. 20” with a really narrow hub. Can’t seem to find one.
No one can imitate Brompton's ingenious folding design. Even 2nd best will be much to be desired for folding design and it's simplicity. However, after owning several Brompton over the years, it does have some drawback. Biggest one is the weight. The standard Brompton weighs around 28lbs. It makes a huge difference when you travel with it, especially mass transit. Second is the maintenance. The standard use Sturmey Archer integrated hub design. It is very fragile and requires periodic maintenance. It's definitely old school. So you will likely need to bring it to a Brompton dealer for service regularly to maintain its proper operation. Otherwise, you will start to notice shifting issues. Third is, you will need to wipe off any water if it gets wet. It rusts very quickly if you don't - especially if you live in humid or live where inclimate weather is frequent.
I was that close to getting Brompton but the Dahon mu d11 was on sale. The folded footprint of the Dahon mu d11 is surprisingly compact w the folded handlebars sandwiched between the front n rear, vs dangling out, like the Mariner. It gives me Brompton vibes when I carry it, n when I ride it I just feel faster I think mainly due to the two-lthrow lever MTB style shifters n the 11-sp cassette. Fits perfectly in trunk n easy to carry when commuting via train
Hi, thank you for this video. I don't know how you did know but I'm on the market to buy a new bike and this are the two bikes I'm considering. Keep the great videos coming.
Online, there is lots of discussion about Bromptons being used as shopping carts (by "trolleying" them through the store mostly folded, with the front carrier bag/basket holding the goods). Is there something similar for any other folding bikes? (That seems like a "killer app" for me.)
Great comparison. Individual factors end up playing a huge role. For example, while I do take my folding bike in public transport on a daily basis, neither folding time nor size are very important for me as it is roomy trains and an overall a calm commute without changing trains. Further, I have a Dahon dealer nearby, so Dahon wins with quite some margin for me personally, also due to the smoother ride on rough terrain.
I have a landing gear on my Mariner D8, and it helps quite a bit-absolute night and day compared to carrying it! The landing gear’s wheel does, however, sometimes get squeaky, and isn’t great on bumpy surfaces. I have yet to achieve a nice analog to Brompton’s “shopping cart mode” with it, since the valet truss would go awkwardly within the fold, but am hoping to use my rear rack or a pannier basket for that eventually. +1 on how great of a comparison this is!!
@@2Bikes4Adventure In my case, the bike area is directly at the door, so I only have to carry it at most 3-4 meters at a time. But thanks for bringing this option to my attention.
@@2Bikes4Adventure I use landing gear and extremely recommend it. Folded bike should be on your left hand side and it's just easy as carrying a cabin size luggage.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Followup: Over time I figured out that I can roll my folded D8 forward by tilting it on the wheels with the handlebar still extended (which is tolerated in trains around here). This is very practical for moving it within the train. Pulling it backward only works briefly until the pedal hits the front wheel which then requires adjusting the pedals. But pulling it backward is usually not necessary anyhow. My father's D7 (I think) is somehow not balanced when rolling it in the folded state because the front wheel sticks out further toward the back. This makes it less convenient to push because the magnet lock tends to open up, so one would need to lock it with the rubber strip. So for other models the landing gear may be a convenient addition, but for my model and use case it does not seem to offer a big advantage. I am still commuting up to 4 times a week and I am very happy overall.
Tough call. I would need it for grocery shopping, but many sidewalks enroute are lifted by tree roots. So its Brompton portability vs Dahon comfort and price
I needed a bike to help with a long regional bus plus train commute, then a short ride. It saved me an hour each way because I could get an earlier train. I needed a good bike which could be used on crowded trains and the bus driver would let on the bus without fuss. So, of course, I chose the Brompton. My regional bus service has no issues with the Brompton. I never saw another bike on the bus, ever, no one ever placed one in the luggage compartment under the bus, even though this was apparently where bikes were supposed to go. My folded Brompton was seen as a suitcase and allowed on. I no longer commute but it is still a comfortable bike to ride. I use the same brand of tyre as I did on my old hybrid bike. There are other choices of tyre now but I have no plans to change. I am used to the Brompton, nothing has ever broken bent or worn out (apart from tyres). For me it’s great that I can keep it folded in my study and use it any time. It would not be my first choice for a full day’s ride but it is also the first bike that believe has it’s own personality and as a result it’s a joy to use.
I think the larger circumference tire also has an effect in smoothing out the ride. With a larger circumference, the angle of attack of a bump in the tire will be lower, thus pushing up less when encountering a bump. Alternatively stated, the larger tire rolls over holes easier because it can bridge over them more easily. This is the same reason why some mountain and gravel riders choose 29 inch tires, even though smaller 27.5 or 26 inch would be easier to spin up.
Bromptons can go anywhere, but not with grace. They are optimized for city streets, and for me, rides of less than 5 miles on anything not flat and smooth, Of which they are the master.
20"are better if it is far and uneven, just as you say, for trail riding, but to be honest even that is pushing it. You pick the best tool for the job you have.
Thank you for your honest unbiased review of both bikes, watching other reviews of folding bikes I have noticed that a lot of Brompton owners can get a bit hot under the collar when other folding bikes are mentioned 😂
Excellent work as always. I like that you're so objective in your judgements. I have taken similar approach to yours. I could only have folding bikes due to storage limitations so I got a Brompton for intermodal trips and city riding and Airnimal on 24" for more recreational and offroad rides where I don't have to fold the bike often.
I have black Brompton 3 speed and shall try to bring it on my flight from honolulu to kona. Also have 2 Dohan single speed s and now thinking of buying a 7 speed.
I have m6r which is really a reliable bike..p lune which i love due to its lightness easy to carry n simple derailleur..and tern link d8 which is similar to mariner..i love all of them..all have their advantages and they compliment each other..if i were to pick any..i would chose either m6r or pline with tern link d8..best to have 20" and 16" together..i ditch my mtb due to mobility...
I am genuinely sorry that some Brompton owners have had trouble with the integrated gear levers becoming hard to operate. I had heard of this problem before, and wondered how it came about, because I have had no gearshift problems whatsoever. Indeed, one of the pleasing things about my Brompton gearshift experience, is how the two levers operate so smoothly and positively... .. with both being *equally smooth and positive,* which is quite an achievement of itself, because the mechanisms being operated are so different to each other, derailleur and hub respectively. FYI: My standard steel Brompton is more than 3 years old now, and used pretty much every day, averaging between 8-16 kilometres.
Both our M6Rs have intermittent shifter problems. It seems to be worse during hot days. It reaches a point where we avoid changing gears on short ascents and descents so as not to have to struggle with the jammed shifters. It seems to be “not-invented-here syndrome” on Brompton’s part. They should leave shifter/derailleur manufacturing to specialists (ex: Shimano, Sram). These plastic components seriously clash with the premium price associated with Brompton.
@@2Bikes4Adventure My wife had the " sticky gearshift " shortly after purchasing her M6L . I saw a couple of UA-cam clips and did a bit of fine sanding on the internal mechanism which seems to have cured it as there's been no problems since. I've since purchased a can of "WD40 Dry PTFE " which has an ingenious nozzle system, and dries leaving just a film of PTFE without any potentially sticky residue. It's my new toy, I've been prowling around the house spraying locks and hinges and also our Brommies.
The Brompton shift system was optimized for durable folding. Dahon style exposed derailleur is vulnerable. Brompton system was designed by the same guy who invented the Macarena. You get used to it.
@@devjon123 WD40 is a water displacement, and should only be used to help clear out the gunk. Once you've cleaned it you should use an appropriate lubricant.
Had both of these they are both great - you have made some great points ! Would love a lighter and cheaper Brompton - Dahon does not fold as well I know I tried it ! Bromptom can be bought to your spec - Dahon have a easier gear change! My Brompton aged very well which I thought was very important! As you say both have their great points - so buy both 😅 Once again great review and info for perspective owners.
I think the utility of Brompton is definitely the best among folding bikes: compact and tidy folded shape, eady to handle, front bag, trolley mode, rear rack with elastic band, all makes a Brompton a super machine for city utility.
A good comparison, but it's often better to have the tools for the right job. Brompton's ease of fold and size is a clear winner for Urban multi-modal transport. Comfort on poor-quality gravel roads is sketchy at best; it can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it. If you are looking for comfort for long days on the saddle, you can do better than the Dahon. Consider a non-folding mini velo or even a full-size bike; your body will thank you for it. I'm not against the Dahon; it's a great choice if you have the budget for only one bike. It is, however, a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. I would rather have the convenience of the Brompton, and if I need the comfort, I'd rather have another bike for that purpose. A second bike can be used as a backup while one is being fixed. Space is an issue for some; if that's the case, having two bikes is probably not ideal.
The only things i don't like about the Bromptons are the INSANELY high price (especially when it's not even electric), the lack of Hub dynamos for lights on the bike and of course the overwhelming amount of proprietary parts. At least the 16 inch wheel issue they have now solved with the 20 inch wheels in the G Series. It was about time.
My Dahon Mariner's front wheel bearings died in a very short time. All the bike shops told me I'd need a new wheel as the bearings were non-standard. The bike looked good, rode okay, but in the end was kind of junky.
An issue not mentioned is how easy is it to secure the bikes. People mention going shopping - but the more expensive the bike, the more attractive it is to steal. While it might take 23 seconds to fold the bike - how much time does it take to make it secure from a thief? Does either maker have fast solution?
The safest strategy is to keep the bike with you. If the store/restaurant doesn’t accept the bike indoors, we go somewhere else. The smaller size of the Brompton gives it the edge in that respect.
The Brompton remains the best folding bike in terms of portability. But for a better all round ride and stability. A Dahon Mariner. Or a Tern Link D8 are better options.
As someone who also has owned both, I hated the Dahon, its short wheelbase was really bad for a tall rider like me. It never felt like a real bike, and I quickly sold it on.
Hey have you done carry on only flying with the brompton? Do you ever have issues with weight or luggage clearance when going on like smaller aircrafts? I wanted to know if i can bring like a backpacking bag and the brompton as carry on luggage. Budget airline are usually more serious about these things to make you try to pay check in. Wondering if yu have experience flying on carry on only. Thanks :)
@funguy2627, While some have been successful in storing Bromptons in overhead bins, our recent flight experiences usually involved full planes where carry-on storage was at a premium. More than once, we ended up having to shove our bags under the seat in front of us as no more space was available in the overhead bin. Experience with gate check-in wasn’t too enjoyable either, as we ended up having to pick up our baggage on the same conveyor belt as the checked-in luggage at the end of the flight (thus it had been tossed around as casually by baggage handlers as any other items). Successfully travelling with a “carry-on” Brompton is certainly worthy of a Instagram post and offers some bragging rights to the lucky passenger, but we wouldn’t rely on such a strategy to begin a long-awaited enjoyable vacation.
@@2Bikes4Adventure i prefer carry on only as I dont want do deal with the wait times of check in. Just wanted to know if people had issues bringing their brompton as carry on with another big sized bag.
The UK second-hand market is interesting, Bromptons keep their high prices, Dahons not so much. Dahon's more standard parts and assembly also factor heavily into the budget, easier repair and maintenance.
I had a D7 for a while and large backpack/pannier that worked great. Given the wheel height I don't know if that would be possible on the Brompton if I went for a 30L backpack style bag maybe put too much weight to the back and cause weird torsion bounces. Your analysis once again is top notch, the notion of the spring value of the wheel was amazing and actually sold me again on 20" wheels. I thought the Brompton would shine there but the stopper is really just managing the lack of aborption of the higher PSI wheels. I did try a bike with 16" wheels (Not a Brompton) and found the wheels twitchy, a concern on less than ideal conditions or high speeds. I'd have to try a real Brompton design though to see how that goes. I had used a Dahon here in Toronto transit system subways and streetcars without incident. For a bus I was more likley to leave it unfolded and put on the front carrier. However the dealerships have all gone Tern and it's very hard now to find Dahon dealers in Canada unlike say 10 years ago. Meanwhile Tern has three dealerships right in Toronto. So for service and longevity I have to give it to the Brompton. I'll probably go with Tern for a full cargo bike and a 20" foldup bike for now, but I'll not close the door on Brompton. Folded while shopping is a fanstastic application
We experienced a similar phenomenon in Montreal during the last decade when Dahon, unfortunately, became more difficult to find in store than Tern. Enjoy your new bike(s), whatever wheel size you choose.
The unequalled benefits of the Brompton make it my preference over any other folding bicycle. Ingenuity, meticulous design and attention to detail make it the best folding bicycle.
@@necromtoobalanced7899 I only brought it on a train couple of times to avoid heavy rain. It was ok, though not as straightforward as Brompties. Works well if not crowded, but peak hour time would be not that easy to have it around.
I had a ridgeback folding bike that was made by Dahon and was very similar to this except the extended handle stem but find my Brompton to be at least twice as nice as the Dahon including the gears The gripshift was awful and the bike never felt that sturdy but was a fun bike to ride fast
Although the Dahon does fold, it's not really suited to travelling. It's more suited to static storage. If you want folding for travelling, then you really need the Brompton. Or you will end up with both, as I have. We live and learn.
If wheel size is essential, try a folding Montague! My SuperlightH6LXBrompton is for now down to 9,35 kilos, and still with some easy, but expensive extra weight savings possible (Handlebar and stem post + small parts. - Saddle. I still use the original saddle and I use mudguards). I have raced down a steep serpentine road with frequent cattle bars over the road, for a full stop each time, and my Brompton brakes never let me down during that, though some initial doubts! I do have an electric, folding Makita also, but it s heavy! Finn. Denmark
The problem with smaller wheels is sustained braking during descent. So, depending on the slope gradient, elevation drop and total system weight, an experienced rider may minimize the risk of rim overheat by implementing proper speed management.
@@2Bikes4Adventure I must admit that when starting the ride down again, I had my doubts, but my Brompton never let me down and stopped in front of each grille, many times, on the road down and from very high speeds!!! And as an owner of an also "single folding" 18 volt Makita, folding bike, it fills much more than the complicated fold, Brompton! And it is heavy! 😄
The problem with the Dahon is that it's too much of a compromise. I owned a Tern, which is virtually exactly the same design as the Dahon (the company was founded by th, and the reality is that it's a folding bike where the folding mechanism doesn't serve a lot of practical purpose. Sure, you can put it in the trunk of a car, but at that point you're not much better off than you would be just strapping a full-sized bike to a bike rack. The Brompton folding mechanism and size is so much better that it becomes practical to take almost anywhere at almost anytime by almost any mode of transit. I would also argue that the Brompton is actually the nicer ride unless you're riding on really rough surfaces--but in that case, you'd be better off with a full-sized non-folding bike, and when you consider how dubious the usefulness of Dahon's fold is, I don't see a reason to choose the Dahon just for this.
Does anyone used a clone Brompton here(e.g Aceoffix,3sixty, etc.) which of them is pretty close to Brompton frame geometry. I have 2 folding bikes FNHON brand the Freedom model comparable to Brompton when folded and more lighter better for bi-modal commuting I modify mine around 6.5kg. I'm planning to buy Brompton or the clone one for cheaper price.
Not as much the size as what you plan to do with it. If you plan to hand carry the (folded) bike, taking bus/metro/train on regular basis, go for an H handlebar Brompton. If you want a bicycle for occasional trips around town and/or seasonal vacations, go for the Mariner.
@@whazzat8015 Please do your homework before commenting. Both bikes weigh 12kgs on average and the Dahon using the more practical 20'" Wheels is only slightly wider folded but it's a great trade off. I can easily jump on and off of Public Transport with no issues.
@@charlieoscar09 LOL. You can go jump off public transport, as far as I'm concerned. Apples and oranges, here. Sloppy comparison of different tools. The Dahons and those styled after them are luggable. I can hammer with pliers. Use the right tool for the job you have.
Thanks for the comparison. Currently I have a zizzo urbano and I’m happy with it as a bike for riding around the neighborhood. I’m also considering the Dahon ei4 - an e bike that has a similar tri fold to a brompton but less expensive for commuting. I’m hoping you guys could review that when it comes out! Love Bromptons but I’m struggling with a 5k+ price for an ebike 😊
The Brompton Electric C Line Explore is currently on sale at a dealer near me for $3080. That’s in USD, or 3850 CAD. Not inexpensive but also not $5k+. It was still too much for me to spend when I was shopping about a year ago so I went with a human powered Brompton. No regrets, it’s been very reliable and fun.
It's not good comparison. You have to compare Dahon model with same price of the Brompton. The best comparison will be with Dahon K3 that cost the same and has same wheels size, 16". Anyway, my opinion: The top secret of the Brompton is: Longer wheelbase as a compensation of the small wheels. That gives the stability while riding and remains very compact when folding. If I have to redesign Brompton I would change the gear to 8 speeds internal hub gear and extend the wheelbase length about 10cm to increase stability and comfort while riding.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Please notice: I am talking about the K3 plus the 16" version 9 speeds gear (9.8kg) and not the version 14" 3 speeds gear. Please watch here: ua-cam.com/video/iVBswfQIOKw/v-deo.html
The Brompton link leads to nothing, and there is no Dahon D8 available. That aside, can you discover how to make your Amazon links open to my Amazon store, not yours? I am NOT going to pay $400+ for freight on a $800 product.
@oneeyedphotographer2360, thanks for the heads-up. The Brompton sale being over, maybe they changed the link URL? We updated it with the regular price version link. We will look into dynamically pointing to your local Amazon site.
These Expensive 16" VS cheap 18" It would make more sense for a 18" Vello Bike VS 18" Dahon or a 18" Tern VS 18" Dahon. I think Dahon more then the Vello. Plus the Sidefolder are missing all the Features of a Brompton for the Daily use. The Easy rolling on the rear Rack, the Shopping Cart mode, the Front Backs all Brompton specific things. So this Comparison is quite questionable. Interesting but questionable at best.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Price wise - Base C Line (6 Gears, No Rear Rack, No Dynamohub - 1700 euro in my Country ) Performance wise - P Line It's definitely an Interesting mix of Small Size, Leightweigt Performance and a still affordable Price, if compared to a Brompton. Sure, it doesn't say anything about the long term Quality but at least over the Warranty Time should it hold up.
Life is too short for low qaulity ..... get a Brompton and experience a quality time.... The clock is ticking why waste your time saving money .... and experiencing lower quality...... If you live in appartments just get a brompton.. if you travel on trains buses underground or planes GET A BROMPTON .. no other bike closes down to this size or rides like this......
Have you ever owned a Brompton? If you have, I don't think you will say that about Brompton. They weren't as expensive several decades ago. But the price fluctuates a lot based on the currency exchange rate. If you buy in in U.K., I'm sure it's cheaper.
Well, I don’t think you can park the Vespa under your office desk though. And it doesn’t need petrol too. I started off by buying the Dahon because I thought it was crazy to pay so much for a foldie… after having the Dahon for about 6 months, I bought my first Brompton … I can’t feel the difference in the ride comfort but the fold and space is awesome. The rear of my car can hold more than one Brompton. However, of course…. Cost makes the difference. I now cycle to my office, park it under my desk, it helps esp parking fees at my office cost a bomb. So there you have it… B won… wallet lost though ….
Dahon Mariner Worst bike It is on sale now after only a few uses I will loose money but eill get rid of it for many reasons The worst of all is the foldable mechanism Really bad thought It is also not easy to move on wheels when folded Worst purchase in a long while
Bromptons are meant for 'active' commuters who may use fold/unfold the bike frequently to utilize public transport. The Dahon is a folding bike, but better for those who need a folded bike for compact storage - say if you live in an apartment, or plan to carry a folding bike by car to your destination as apposed to public transport. Bromptons are more collectible though.
The more you have to fold/unfold in a day, the more you like the Brompton.
What do y'all think if I bike 20-30 mins to work and mainly want the folding for when I bring the bike up to the office? The smaller folding size and separation of the wheels from the carpet make the brompton appealing, also for the occasional bus/subway ride. But the larger wheel/tire size of the Dahon seems more appealing for ride comfort/potholes/bumpy urban terrain, as well as for efficiency over longer rides (sometimes I bike up to 2h in a day going around the city, though not all in one go)
Update: based on your How Fast is a Brompton video, my 4-5 km commute would just be a 1-2 min difference between a brompton and road bike, so the difference would likely be smaller between the Dahon and a Brompton, so perhaps the longer ride advantage isn't that significant in my case (where longer ride for me is 5-10 km)
@@play150I’ve had both. Dahon was so clunky when folding/unfolding. Brompton is a pleasure (all the R&D and engineering shows). I don’t notice any performance difference from the wheels size.
@@shinhochulpI ended up getting a Zizzo which is pretty similar to the Dahon. I got a rear rack with small wheels so I still get the separation from the carpet.
I think that it's pretty good/similar riding as a regular bike. When folded up it's fairly compact, but I often still am longing for an even smaller folded package when I'm at the office/on the train etc. And a faster folding/unfolding bike. I've been going around bike lock-free hoping to fold it and bring it in with me. Haven't run into any big problems other than it being awkward to lug around since it's like having a suitcase with you.
Overall it works, though I might go back to carrying a lock again. I wonder if it's a grass is greener thing where I would've wondered about getting better ride feel/efficiency if I went with the Brompton. One thing hard to argue with is the price, as the Zizzo was like 300 USD on sale last Xmas from Target so I think the downsides may be worth the large price difference. With the rear rack and other things (eg brompton adapter for front bags), the bike reaches 500-600 USD.
I'm Dahon because, Ive got two Dahons the Vybe D7 and the K3. Vybe great with 7 speeds and the K3 is one of the lightest folding, compact bikes going around to take on public transport and theres still alot of change before you buy even one Brompton. Thats why.
Always very informative vids, and the science and related graphics are unparalleled. Thanks
As a Brompton owner I think you did a great job talking about it's strengths and weaknesses. It's biggest weakness imo is comfort, for a bike that is built for city streets which are rarely smooth, the tyre choice is not wide enough. If only they offered enough frame clearance for up to a 50mm tyre it could be the perfect bike for the city and trail.
Maybe Schwalbe would make 50-349 Big Apple if it could be fitted on a Brompton (they do make 50-355 for the Birdy)
I fully agree! I've seen other 16" bikes that run with wider tires with a fraction of the tire pressure. I feel that that would help quite a bit with traction, comfort, and reducing punctures, at the cost of a little additional weight (more material in the wheel, tube and tire) I wonder if Slightly widening the front fork and rear triangle would add any additional weight to the frame itself?
A Brompton is a special tool for certain purposes! It is more heavy to ride, even with the high pressure in the wheels! Its main purpose is its extreme foldability! The long time development has made it rather unique, also compared with the many Clones made from the concept, which mostly lacks the High End product which Brompton offers! Those who follow in the footsteps, will never come first!
Thank you for this video!
If you don't consider the price, the Brompton get 57/80 (71%), the Dahon 52/80 (65%). With the Brompton, you get 5% to 10% (depending how you count) «more» bike but for more that two times the price... Price-performance ratio seems to me definitively in favor of Dahon.
I like the way you put this issue in this video, thanks! My wife and I are happy with our Mariners! Keep on riding!!!
I almost purchased a Dahon used for $300. Lucky for me, I was gifted a Brompton! The funny thing about it, I had no idea how popular either bikes are especially the Brompton. I am so blessed to have this bike.Thanks for the video comparison. I had no idea how great they are.
That was a great gift!
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thank you
I bought a Dahon Speed Uno with 20 inch wheels, no gears. Very practical bike for $500. I decided to get a Brompton C line for $2,000. Loved the Brompton, fast and compact. But not as comfortable to ride as the Dahon in the city of Chicago. So now I’m back to riding the Dahon and considering getting the Mariner D8 which seems like the best overall choice. The Brompton has its place for going into restaurants and stores where it’s easier to carry.
I have a Dahon, and commute on it daily, and never 've been dissapointed. Now that I want to travel arround the country, on my car, I wish it could have the Bromton's folding size to save that extra little space in the trunk.
I’m grateful for your almost scientific methodology and weighing scheme when you give points to the contenders. Due to the high second hand value of the Brompton, the investment is well worth it in the end. 🚲
Brompton relatively slow evolution makes them timeless (our T3 are 21 years old) and help them retain their resell value.
I would compare the Brompton with the Tern Verge S8i. For the same price of a Brompton, you can buy the Verge S8i and you will get: hydraulic disk brakes, front and tail light with dynamo, Andros stem, 8 speed internal gear hub and carbon belt; along with a more solid bike for almost every road. Brompton are an engineering beauty tough
Would be nice to see a Brompton with a belt drive and 8 speed!
It's a nice comparison from a design perspective with technical approach. Accidentally that helped me choosing wheel size between 16" and 20" with gear already near the ground (< 4").
It's just amazing how much knowledge there was. (I've been riding bikes just 40 years but just knowing how to replacing tires.) Your systematic way and articulation were enhancing.
For me, the best thing about the Brompton is the shopping trolley mode and just how quickly it all folds up. That speed of folding is super handy when ducking to the supermarket for a few items for dinner. Roll up right to the door of the supermarket, trolley mode in 5 seconds, shop, start unfolding it soon as I set foot outside again and i'm off.
On the contrary the Dahon is a nightmare Mine is on sale Such a bad investment Yes it is cheaper Money thrown out of the window
I've been carrying a Montague folder for several years in my small plane, converted to e power no less, and though i can it get it out and ride off in only 3 minutes, sometimes that's too long! I'm looking forward to the super quick Brompton unfolding/riding off process.
@portnuefflyer Gilbert’s first folding bike was a Montague as well (Paratrooper/Hummer).
Great, robust “ride anywhere” bike, but awkward for air travel (although we did go to France and Cuba with it) We eventually transitioned to Brompton for its smaller fold (we do have to select smoother routes however). Enjoy your new bike.
@@2Bikes4Adventure First flight with it today, I just need to get from the airstrip to an auto parts store about 1.5 miles away on a level paved street, where packing my Montague e bike would be overkill. A brief ride in my home driveway made me realize, it's been years since I've ridden a pedal only bike! I have several e bikes, and the pedal only Brompton is amazingly flickable and easy to pedal compared to what I'm used to!
Incredibly well thought out and presented video. Technical yet approachable. WOW. One of the best comparison videos I have ever seen in over a decade! Dahon for riding, Brompton for packing and carrying. Dahon using standard easily serviced, and off the shelf parts available drivetrain and brakes. Brompton is cool and super small. Dahon 20" wheels matter, especially since they can be inflated at a lower pressure as you mention. I find that in Bicycles and motorcycles, tires provide a first line of defense for small road imperfections that are transmitted to the hands and wrists, even before traditional suspension. I loved the woman's voice also.
Exceptional review! As an engineer I really appreciate the decision matrix style format.
Stay tuned for some more technical-based videos
Excellent comparison between the two bikes. I would choose to have both, use the Brompton on better road surface and the Dahon for more challenging road condition.
Nothing wrong with having more than one bike!
The Bromptons folded size conquers all. The only issue for many people is the price, although a good bicycle has always been in that price range, and a Brompton can be ridden to the end of your days and then be ridden by your grandchildren.
Excellent comparison. I own a brompton ti and Dahon Speed TR. Brompton us very suitable for city with multiple mode of transport. As my current location is seaside long road, low traffic and no train. Brompton has been sitting quietly for about 4+ years. Dahon has been my main bicycle. Probably should do a video on this different locations.
Brompton has accompany me to many short city tours. It's a great machine. As it's been sitting too long now I am considering selling it off and get something else.
We owned 2 Dahon TR for many years. We were pleased with the “touring oriented” design (gearing, dual racks, dynamo, Ergon grips, Big Apple tires….). However, it was disappointing the stem didn’t fold between both wheels, making the entire folded bicycle a lot bigger it needed to be. For air travel packing (as well as the occasional bus/train ride abroad), this became a show stopper. We transitioned to Brompton due to its smaller size and eventually sold the TRs.
Subscribed your channel and waiting for your bike video.
@@elektriketut Thanks for the interest. Will make a video soon. This few days diy waterproof works and new paint work.
Replacing the original Brompton steel seatpost with admittedly more expensive titanium post will noticeably improve comfort. It is the first aftermarket improvement one should consider for lightness, shock absorption and is corrosion free.
Excellent suggestion
Can you share the link and/or the one you got?
Carbon fibre would offer more comfort
@@carrickdubya4765no, carbon doesnt absorbs shocks
@@carrickdubya4765 You don't want the added worry of CF snapping while out on a long tour. Otherwise, they're probably fine for city riding and commutes.
Excellent comparison . I have a Brompton and a Tern D7i. The Brompton is the clear winner for my daily commute by train. You can store it anywhere. The Tern is the clear winner for the price, the standard replacement parts and especially for the riding comfort. The 50 mm Schwalbe Big Apple tires are superbe. Tern also offers a wide range of bags, both for front and rear.
Owning both bicycles offers the best of both worlds.
My Brompton is arriving today, I chose it for carrying in my light plane based on it's speed of folding, size when folded, and weight.
I had a Dahon MUI then bought a Brompton, the Brompton can be a tad skittish due to the 16" wheels compared to the Dahon's 20" wheels but the Brompton is basically designed for cities and as a commuting bike, I know have 3 and the GF 1, mine are a 2015 Lime Green S3L, 2022 Flame Lacquer H6L Electric and a 2008 S2L striped down hack bike, the girlfriend has an Orange Black Edition H2L and loves it.
I have a p line and a zizzo liberte 20" folder. i like them both and wouldn't part with either one. The Brompton is fun and fast urban bike great for bus and train use as is the zizzo. The zizzo is better for a little rough use like camping and it cheap and easy to work on and only cost $450 They both weigh in at 24 lbs and the bags are interchangeable which is priceless.
Really happy to find this. I own 2 Dahons. We did one long ride through England (C2C) and Western Europe. Love the bikes but in Canada it’s hard to find parts or even dealers. I need a front wheel for a Speed D8. 20” with a really narrow hub. Can’t seem to find one.
There is a website selling them all
No one can imitate Brompton's ingenious folding design. Even 2nd best will be much to be desired for folding design and it's simplicity. However, after owning several Brompton over the years, it does have some drawback. Biggest one is the weight. The standard Brompton weighs around 28lbs. It makes a huge difference when you travel with it, especially mass transit. Second is the maintenance. The standard use Sturmey Archer integrated hub design. It is very fragile and requires periodic maintenance. It's definitely old school. So you will likely need to bring it to a Brompton dealer for service regularly to maintain its proper operation. Otherwise, you will start to notice shifting issues. Third is, you will need to wipe off any water if it gets wet. It rusts very quickly if you don't - especially if you live in humid or live where inclimate weather is frequent.
I was that close to getting Brompton but the Dahon mu d11 was on sale. The folded footprint of the Dahon mu d11 is surprisingly compact w the folded handlebars sandwiched between the front n rear, vs dangling out, like the Mariner. It gives me Brompton vibes when I carry it, n when I ride it I just feel faster I think mainly due to the two-lthrow lever MTB style shifters n the 11-sp cassette. Fits perfectly in trunk n easy to carry when commuting via train
Hi, thank you for this video. I don't know how you did know but I'm on the market to buy a new bike and this are the two bikes I'm considering. Keep the great videos coming.
Enjoy your new bicycle
Online, there is lots of discussion about Bromptons being used as shopping carts (by "trolleying" them through the store mostly folded, with the front carrier bag/basket holding the goods). Is there something similar for any other folding bikes? (That seems like a "killer app" for me.)
The Brompton (and clones) are pretty unique in that respect
Great comparison. Individual factors end up playing a huge role. For example, while I do take my folding bike in public transport on a daily basis, neither folding time nor size are very important for me as it is roomy trains and an overall a calm commute without changing trains. Further, I have a Dahon dealer nearby, so Dahon wins with quite some margin for me personally, also due to the smoother ride on rough terrain.
Would you suggest users to acquire a Dahon “landing gear” or maybe suggest a method to roll it while folded?
I have a landing gear on my Mariner D8, and it helps quite a bit-absolute night and day compared to carrying it! The landing gear’s wheel does, however, sometimes get squeaky, and isn’t great on bumpy surfaces. I have yet to achieve a nice analog to Brompton’s “shopping cart mode” with it, since the valet truss would go awkwardly within the fold, but am hoping to use my rear rack or a pannier basket for that eventually. +1 on how great of a comparison this is!!
@@2Bikes4Adventure In my case, the bike area is directly at the door, so I only have to carry it at most 3-4 meters at a time. But thanks for bringing this option to my attention.
@@2Bikes4Adventure I use landing gear and extremely recommend it. Folded bike should be on your left hand side and it's just easy as carrying a cabin size luggage.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Followup: Over time I figured out that I can roll my folded D8 forward by tilting it on the wheels with the handlebar still extended (which is tolerated in trains around here). This is very practical for moving it within the train. Pulling it backward only works briefly until the pedal hits the front wheel which then requires adjusting the pedals. But pulling it backward is usually not necessary anyhow. My father's D7 (I think) is somehow not balanced when rolling it in the folded state because the front wheel sticks out further toward the back. This makes it less convenient to push because the magnet lock tends to open up, so one would need to lock it with the rubber strip. So for other models the landing gear may be a convenient addition, but for my model and use case it does not seem to offer a big advantage. I am still commuting up to 4 times a week and I am very happy overall.
Thank you for very interesting summary.
Seriously good scoring system. Many thanks.
Absolutely fantastic video,succinct and so informative
Tough call. I would need it for grocery shopping, but many sidewalks enroute are lifted by tree roots. So its Brompton portability vs Dahon comfort and price
Great comparison, as always. Thank you!
I needed a bike to help with a long regional bus plus train commute, then a short ride. It saved me an hour each way because I could get an earlier train. I needed a good bike which could be used on crowded trains and the bus driver would let on the bus without fuss. So, of course, I chose the Brompton. My regional bus service has no issues with the Brompton. I never saw another bike on the bus, ever, no one ever placed one in the luggage compartment under the bus, even though this was apparently where bikes were supposed to go. My folded Brompton was seen as a suitcase and allowed on.
I no longer commute but it is still a comfortable bike to ride. I use the same brand of tyre as I did on my old hybrid bike. There are other choices of tyre now but I have no plans to change. I am used to the Brompton, nothing has ever broken bent or worn out (apart from tyres). For me it’s great that I can keep it folded in my study and use it any time. It would not be my first choice for a full day’s ride but it is also the first bike that believe has it’s own personality and as a result it’s a joy to use.
I think the larger circumference tire also has an effect in smoothing out the ride. With a larger circumference, the angle of attack of a bump in the tire will be lower, thus pushing up less when encountering a bump. Alternatively stated, the larger tire rolls over holes easier because it can bridge over them more easily. This is the same reason why some mountain and gravel riders choose 29 inch tires, even though smaller 27.5 or 26 inch would be easier to spin up.
Bromptons can go anywhere, but not with grace.
They are optimized for city streets,
and for me, rides of less than 5 miles on anything not flat and smooth,
Of which they are the master.
20"are better if it is far and uneven, just as you say, for trail riding, but to be honest even that is pushing it.
You pick the best tool for the job you have.
Thank you for your honest unbiased review of both bikes, watching other reviews of folding bikes I have noticed that a lot of Brompton owners can get a bit hot under the collar when other folding bikes are mentioned 😂
Bike review can be a sensitive subject.
@@2Bikes4Adventure they certainly can.
Excellent work as always. I like that you're so objective in your judgements.
I have taken similar approach to yours. I could only have folding bikes due to storage limitations so I got a Brompton for intermodal trips and city riding and Airnimal on 24" for more recreational and offroad rides where I don't have to fold the bike often.
We heard a lot of good things about the Airnimal. Not too many of those in North America
I have black Brompton 3 speed and shall try to bring it on my flight from honolulu to kona. Also have 2 Dohan single speed s and now thinking of buying a 7 speed.
Will you be trying the carry-on strategy for your Brompton?
@@2Bikes4Adventure yes since i do not have a good case,
simple a thin Southwest travel bag
@@2Bikes4Adventure Called SW Airlines
Luggage due to measurements
I have a thin SW shipping bag
I have m6r which is really a reliable bike..p lune which i love due to its lightness easy to carry n simple derailleur..and tern link d8 which is similar to mariner..i love all of them..all have their advantages and they compliment each other..if i were to pick any..i would chose either m6r or pline with tern link d8..best to have 20" and 16" together..i ditch my mtb due to mobility...
I am genuinely sorry that some Brompton owners have had trouble with the integrated gear levers becoming hard to operate. I had heard of this problem before, and wondered how it came about, because I have had no gearshift problems whatsoever. Indeed, one of the pleasing things about my Brompton gearshift experience, is how the two levers operate so smoothly and positively...
.. with both being *equally smooth and positive,* which is quite an achievement of itself, because the mechanisms being operated are so different to each other, derailleur and hub respectively.
FYI: My standard steel Brompton is more than 3 years old now, and used pretty much every day, averaging between 8-16 kilometres.
Both our M6Rs have intermittent shifter problems. It seems to be worse during hot days. It reaches a point where we avoid changing gears on short ascents and descents so as not to have to struggle with the jammed shifters.
It seems to be “not-invented-here syndrome” on Brompton’s part. They should leave shifter/derailleur manufacturing to specialists (ex: Shimano, Sram). These plastic components seriously clash with the premium price associated with Brompton.
@@2Bikes4Adventure
My wife had the " sticky gearshift " shortly after purchasing her M6L . I saw a couple of UA-cam clips and did a bit of fine sanding on the internal mechanism which seems to have cured it as there's been no problems since. I've since purchased a can of "WD40 Dry PTFE " which has an ingenious nozzle system, and dries leaving just a film of PTFE without any potentially sticky residue. It's my new toy, I've been prowling around the house spraying locks and hinges and also our Brommies.
Thanks for the hint concerning the WD40 Dry PTFE, we will give it a try.
The Brompton shift system was optimized for durable folding. Dahon style exposed derailleur is vulnerable.
Brompton system was designed by the same guy who invented the Macarena. You get used to it.
@@devjon123 WD40 is a water displacement, and should only be used to help clear out the gunk. Once you've cleaned it you should use an appropriate lubricant.
Steel lasts, Alu doesn't. Everyday commuting I use brompton c line. Dahon fine for occasional use.
Had both of these they are both great - you have made some great points !
Would love a lighter and cheaper Brompton - Dahon does not fold as well I know I tried it !
Bromptom can be bought to your spec - Dahon have a easier gear change!
My Brompton aged very well which I thought was very important! As you say both have their great points - so buy both 😅
Once again great review and info for perspective owners.
@fergusfitzgerald977, nothing wrong with having more than one bicycle :-)
great video!!! would love to see something like this for the new Dahon Curl one day! thanks!!
We would love to compare both bikes, but the Dahon Curl is not available in North America so we can’t get our hands on one.
Thank you for the quality analysis. Which is more fun to ride?
Brompton is more fun in the city (assuming decent pavement).
The Mariner is more fun on crushed stone/dirt path (or damaged pavement).
@@2Bikes4Adventure Thank you.
I think the utility of Brompton is definitely the best among folding bikes: compact and tidy folded shape, eady to handle, front bag, trolley mode, rear rack with elastic band, all makes a Brompton a super machine for city utility.
A good comparison, but it's often better to have the tools for the right job. Brompton's ease of fold and size is a clear winner for Urban multi-modal transport. Comfort on poor-quality gravel roads is sketchy at best; it can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it. If you are looking for comfort for long days on the saddle, you can do better than the Dahon. Consider a non-folding mini velo or even a full-size bike; your body will thank you for it. I'm not against the Dahon; it's a great choice if you have the budget for only one bike. It is, however, a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. I would rather have the convenience of the Brompton, and if I need the comfort, I'd rather have another bike for that purpose. A second bike can be used as a backup while one is being fixed. Space is an issue for some; if that's the case, having two bikes is probably not ideal.
I'm hoping to one day cross paths with you! Thanks again for a wonderfully informative video.
Any time!
I ride lectric ebike. These two were even compact and lighter than my ebike. Great comparison.
The only things i don't like about the Bromptons are the INSANELY high price (especially when it's not even electric), the lack of Hub dynamos for lights on the bike and of course the overwhelming amount of proprietary parts. At least the 16 inch wheel issue they have now solved with the 20 inch wheels in the G Series. It was about time.
My Dahon Mariner's front wheel bearings died in a very short time. All the bike shops told me I'd need a new wheel as the bearings were non-standard. The bike looked good, rode okay, but in the end was kind of junky.
An issue not mentioned is how easy is it to secure the bikes. People mention going shopping - but the more expensive the bike, the more attractive it is to steal. While it might take 23 seconds to fold the bike - how much time does it take to make it secure from a thief? Does either maker have fast solution?
The safest strategy is to keep the bike with you. If the store/restaurant doesn’t accept the bike indoors, we go somewhere else. The smaller size of the Brompton gives it the edge in that respect.
Love my Dahon Mu P8, except for the one time the frame broke in half
Fantastic video! No longer in the market for a folding bike but much appreciate your detailed review on the subject.
The Brompton remains the best folding bike in terms of portability. But for a better all round ride and stability. A Dahon Mariner. Or a Tern Link D8 are better options.
As someone who also has owned both, I hated the Dahon, its short wheelbase was really bad for a tall rider like me. It never felt like a real bike, and I quickly sold it on.
I have a Dahon Boardwalk D7, good bike for long rides even in rough terrain. Love to try both, If only I have the budget to buy a Brompton. 😅
Thank you for a great comparison!
Hey have you done carry on only flying with the brompton? Do you ever have issues with weight or luggage clearance when going on like smaller aircrafts? I wanted to know if i can bring like a backpacking bag and the brompton as carry on luggage. Budget airline are usually more serious about these things to make you try to pay check in. Wondering if yu have experience flying on carry on only. Thanks :)
@funguy2627, While some have been successful in storing Bromptons in overhead bins, our recent flight experiences usually involved full planes where carry-on storage was at a premium. More than once, we ended up having to shove our bags under the seat in front of us as no more space was available in the overhead bin.
Experience with gate check-in wasn’t too enjoyable either, as we ended up having to pick up our baggage on the same conveyor belt as the checked-in luggage at the end of the flight (thus it had been tossed around as casually by baggage handlers as any other items).
Successfully travelling with a “carry-on” Brompton is certainly worthy of a Instagram post and offers some bragging rights to the lucky passenger, but we wouldn’t rely on such a strategy to begin a long-awaited enjoyable vacation.
@@2Bikes4Adventure i prefer carry on only as I dont want do deal with the wait times of check in. Just wanted to know if people had issues bringing their brompton as carry on with another big sized bag.
The UK second-hand market is interesting, Bromptons keep their high prices, Dahons not so much. Dahon's more standard parts and assembly also factor heavily into the budget, easier repair and maintenance.
I had a D7 for a while and large backpack/pannier that worked great. Given the wheel height I don't know if that would be possible on the Brompton if I went for a 30L backpack style bag maybe put too much weight to the back and cause weird torsion bounces. Your analysis once again is top notch, the notion of the spring value of the wheel was amazing and actually sold me again on 20" wheels. I thought the Brompton would shine there but the stopper is really just managing the lack of aborption of the higher PSI wheels. I did try a bike with 16" wheels (Not a Brompton) and found the wheels twitchy, a concern on less than ideal conditions or high speeds. I'd have to try a real Brompton design though to see how that goes.
I had used a Dahon here in Toronto transit system subways and streetcars without incident. For a bus I was more likley to leave it unfolded and put on the front carrier. However the dealerships have all gone Tern and it's very hard now to find Dahon dealers in Canada unlike say 10 years ago. Meanwhile Tern has three dealerships right in Toronto. So for service and longevity I have to give it to the Brompton. I'll probably go with Tern for a full cargo bike and a 20" foldup bike for now, but I'll not close the door on Brompton. Folded while shopping is a fanstastic application
We experienced a similar phenomenon in Montreal during the last decade when Dahon, unfortunately, became more difficult to find in store than Tern. Enjoy your new bike(s), whatever wheel size you choose.
Thank you for all the info.. I'm a Dahon 20-inch make fan myself good for London and UK coast touring..
Thank you
Great work, very informative video, hope you could do the comparison between Brompton 6s vs KHS F20-T3F 451. Thanks
Haven't seen too many of those, but if we do, we will give it a look.
The unequalled benefits of the Brompton make it my preference over any other folding bicycle.
Ingenuity, meticulous design and attention to detail make it the best folding bicycle.
I commuted on Dahon Mariner in NYC a lot and I love it
How is it like carrying it when on the bus and train?
@@necromtoobalanced7899 I only brought it on a train couple of times to avoid heavy rain. It was ok, though not as straightforward as Brompties. Works well if not crowded, but peak hour time would be not that easy to have it around.
Hi, existe other dahon with better features than brompton and the same price, like impulse p21.
The Dahon Curl D9 would be an interesting bike to compare with the Brompton as well
Great vid
I had a ridgeback folding bike that was made by Dahon and was very similar to this except the extended handle stem but find my Brompton to be at least twice as nice as the Dahon including the gears
The gripshift was awful and the bike never felt that sturdy but was a fun bike to ride fast
Great comparison. Thnx.
Are there other folding bikes that can be pushed around after being folded like the brompton? Preferably 20"?
The Tern BYB equipped with a Metro Transit Rack comes to mind.
Although the Dahon does fold, it's not really suited to travelling. It's more suited to static storage. If you want folding for travelling, then you really need the Brompton. Or you will end up with both, as I have. We live and learn.
We have both as well (plus Montague, Birdy,…) Still learning
Brompton for me i love mine
wouldn't birdy with 20 inch tyre suits gravel road the best?
Would depend on tire width and pressure, but everything else being equal, the Birdy suspension would give it the edge
If wheel size is essential, try a folding Montague! My SuperlightH6LXBrompton is for now down to 9,35 kilos, and still with some easy, but expensive extra weight savings possible (Handlebar and stem post + small parts. - Saddle. I still use the original saddle and I use mudguards). I have raced down a steep serpentine road with frequent cattle bars over the road, for a full stop each time, and my Brompton brakes never let me down during that, though some initial doubts! I do have an electric, folding Makita also, but it s heavy! Finn. Denmark
The problem with smaller wheels is sustained braking during descent.
So, depending on the slope gradient, elevation drop and total system weight, an experienced rider may minimize the risk of rim overheat by implementing proper speed management.
@@2Bikes4Adventure I must admit that when starting the ride down again, I had my doubts, but my Brompton never let me down and stopped in front of each grille, many times, on the road down and from very high speeds!!! And as an owner of an also "single folding" 18 volt Makita, folding bike, it fills much more than the complicated fold, Brompton! And it is heavy! 😄
I recommend trying the Tern BYB as a good comparison to both these.
We’d love to have a chance to review the BYB. We’ll see if we can get our hands on one next year.
The BYB P10 is the best one. 26lbs fast and it folds very neat.
The problem with the Dahon is that it's too much of a compromise. I owned a Tern, which is virtually exactly the same design as the Dahon (the company was founded by th, and the reality is that it's a folding bike where the folding mechanism doesn't serve a lot of practical purpose. Sure, you can put it in the trunk of a car, but at that point you're not much better off than you would be just strapping a full-sized bike to a bike rack. The Brompton folding mechanism and size is so much better that it becomes practical to take almost anywhere at almost anytime by almost any mode of transit. I would also argue that the Brompton is actually the nicer ride unless you're riding on really rough surfaces--but in that case, you'd be better off with a full-sized non-folding bike, and when you consider how dubious the usefulness of Dahon's fold is, I don't see a reason to choose the Dahon just for this.
"How much does it weight when it's _folded_?" :)
Buongiorno, complimenti per i tuoi video.Amo le Brompton.Sarebbe interessante un confronto con la Decathlon tilt 900.Un saluto dall' Italia!
The Decathlon Tilt (500 or 900) being available in many countries, it would indeed be a very interesting bicycle to evaluate.
@@2Bikes4Adventure thank you!
Does anyone used a clone Brompton here(e.g Aceoffix,3sixty, etc.) which of them is pretty close to Brompton frame geometry. I have 2 folding bikes FNHON brand the Freedom model comparable to Brompton when folded and more lighter better for bi-modal commuting I modify mine around 6.5kg. I'm planning to buy Brompton or the clone one for cheaper price.
Dahon stands out on its own. to gain respectability, it is smart to compare other bikes vis a vis Dahon.
Good starter foldie.
Which is best for guys 6’3
Not as much the size as what you plan to do with it.
If you plan to hand carry the (folded) bike, taking bus/metro/train on regular basis, go for an H handlebar Brompton.
If you want a bicycle for occasional trips around town and/or seasonal vacations, go for the Mariner.
Love this
Also you can get a clip for the Dahon and use all the Brompton luggage...... The Dahon is a better bike so much comfortable
In your experience, are the front cables interfering with the luggage when using the above mentioned clip?
@@2Bikes4Adventure no not at the clip holds the bag out infront by 50mm
Dahon is Heavier and bulky
You get the tool for the job you have
So , essentially a meaningless comparison.
@@whazzat8015 Please do your homework before commenting. Both bikes weigh 12kgs on average and the Dahon using the more practical 20'" Wheels is only slightly wider folded but it's a great trade off. I can easily jump on and off of Public Transport with no issues.
@@charlieoscar09 LOL. You can go jump off public transport, as far as I'm concerned.
Apples and oranges, here. Sloppy comparison of different tools. The Dahons and those styled after them are luggable.
I can hammer with pliers. Use the right tool for the job you have.
GRACIAS!!
要上飛機的就買小布，不然就一般折疊車！這樣也可以！
Thanks for the comparison. Currently I have a zizzo urbano and I’m happy with it as a bike for riding around the neighborhood. I’m also considering the Dahon ei4 - an e bike that has a similar tri fold to a brompton but less expensive for commuting. I’m hoping you guys could review that when it comes out! Love Bromptons but I’m struggling with a 5k+ price for an ebike 😊
We would love to test the ei4, but it’s not available in North America yet we were told.
The Brompton Electric C Line Explore is currently on sale at a dealer near me for $3080. That’s in USD, or 3850 CAD. Not inexpensive but also not $5k+. It was still too much for me to spend when I was shopping about a year ago so I went with a human powered Brompton. No regrets, it’s been very reliable and fun.
@@readyplayer2 great deal! I live in the Montreal area like 2Bikes and with options and taxes it comes out to about 5k or so retail.
It's not good comparison. You have to compare Dahon model with same price of the Brompton. The best comparison will be with Dahon K3 that cost the same and has same wheels size, 16".
Anyway, my opinion: The top secret of the Brompton is: Longer wheelbase as a compensation of the small wheels. That gives the stability while riding and remains very compact when folding. If I have to redesign Brompton I would change the gear to 8 speeds internal hub gear and extend the wheelbase length about 10cm to increase stability and comfort while riding.
Good suggestion concerning the K3, we will look into it.
@@2Bikes4Adventure Please notice: I am talking about the K3 plus the 16" version 9 speeds gear (9.8kg) and not the version 14" 3 speeds gear.
Please watch here: ua-cam.com/video/iVBswfQIOKw/v-deo.html
@@Cycle-Tourer Stay tuned for a K3 Plus Review
很偶然的看到这个视频，很客观很棒！但是如果加入birdy，内容上就更全面了！
Touring with a Birdy or a Brompton bike?: ua-cam.com/video/HmPxhbc5qek/v-deo.html
The Brompton link leads to nothing, and there is no Dahon D8 available.
That aside, can you discover how to make your Amazon links open to my Amazon store, not yours? I am NOT going to pay $400+ for freight on a $800 product.
@oneeyedphotographer2360, thanks for the heads-up. The Brompton sale being over, maybe they changed the link URL? We updated it with the regular price version link. We will look into dynamically pointing to your local Amazon site.
The Brompton spare parts are horrendously overpriced.
Maybe they should put wheels on folding bikes when it's folded.
Brompton does have them.
日本のように輪行でのパッキングが無駄に厳しく義務付けられていると、携帯性に関してはもっと大きな差が付くんですよね。
なので、ブロンプトンとしばしば比較されるのはDAHONのk3だったりします。
Stay tuned for upcoming review of Dahon K3 Plus
高価で不可能な部品供給
I'm in Japan now how can I avail dahon mariner
We are not too familiar with distributors in Japan, but Whitefield LLC in Osaka do offer Dahon International 40th Edition Mariner D8
These Expensive 16" VS cheap 18"
It would make more sense for a
18" Vello Bike VS 18" Dahon or a
18" Tern VS 18" Dahon.
I think Dahon more then the Vello.
Plus the Sidefolder are missing all the Features of a Brompton for the Daily use. The Easy rolling on the rear Rack, the Shopping Cart mode, the Front Backs all Brompton specific things.
So this Comparison is quite questionable.
Interesting but questionable at best.
What about Dahon K3 Plus vs Brompton P Line?
@@2Bikes4Adventure
Price wise - Base C Line
(6 Gears, No Rear Rack, No Dynamohub - 1700 euro in my Country )
Performance wise - P Line
It's definitely an Interesting mix of Small Size, Leightweigt Performance and a still affordable Price, if compared to a Brompton.
Sure, it doesn't say anything about the long term Quality but at least over the Warranty Time should it hold up.
Until you try and find parts and tires for a proprietary 18"er
Life is too short for low qaulity ..... get a Brompton and experience a quality time.... The clock is ticking why waste your time saving money .... and experiencing lower quality...... If you live in appartments just get a brompton.. if you travel on trains buses underground or planes GET A BROMPTON .. no other bike closes down to this size or rides like this......
Brompton that will hold its value or a Chinese knock-off?
DAHON Mariner 7 way more affordable and one size fits all Brompton so expensive may as well buy a used Vespa scooter
Have you ever owned a Brompton? If you have, I don't think you will say that about Brompton. They weren't as expensive several decades ago. But the price fluctuates a lot based on the currency exchange rate. If you buy in in U.K., I'm sure it's cheaper.
Well, I don’t think you can park the Vespa under your office desk though. And it doesn’t need petrol too. I started off by buying the Dahon because I thought it was crazy to pay so much for a foldie… after having the Dahon for about 6 months, I bought my first Brompton … I can’t feel the difference in the ride comfort but the fold and space is awesome. The rear of my car can hold more than one Brompton. However, of course…. Cost makes the difference. I now cycle to my office, park it under my desk, it helps esp parking fees at my office cost a bomb. So there you have it… B won… wallet lost though ….
A Beixo is better than both of them.
Dahon Mariner Worst bike It is on sale now after only a few uses I will loose money but eill get rid of it for many reasons The worst of all is the foldable mechanism Really bad thought
It is also not easy to move on wheels when folded
Worst purchase in a long while