I Went Through Mormon Gay Conversion Therapy
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com... and get on your way to being your best self.
Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code OPL at checkout at bluechew.com - just pay $5 shipping
This week we speak to a man who went through Mormon gay conversion therapy. He talks about the process he went through to “become straight,” why he eventually left therapy, and how he has decided to live his life since.
Sponsor Other People's Lives: public.liverea...
If you'd like to be on our show, we'd love to have you! Send an email to oplpodcast@gmail.com or visit www.oplshow.com we'll be in touch if your story is a fit for the show.
• Join Our Patreon: / oplshow
• OPL Instagram: / oplpodcast
Follow Joe & Greg:
Joe Santagato (@joesantagato)
Instagram - / joesantagato
Twitter - / joesantagato
Greg Dybec (@gregdybec)
Instagram - / gregdybec
Twitter - / gregdybec
I love that his parents were so accepting to the point of telling him the therapy isn’t good. I’m happy that in their small part of the community they tell the members it’s ok to be gay and to love your kids no matter what.
Except for the part for them to accept you is that ypu dont get to feel love, borh physical and emotional.
@@nikolaplivnaagree, you have to remain celibate and can’t even remotely act on it 👎🏻
Exactly don't they think that this life is a sad life to not feel love and be alone all the time? @@nikolaplivna
I like that you feel happy about these things, as I am a gay man myself and I love support; however, Mormons do NOT accept LGBT people as they are. Yes, the religion "allows" you to be "out", but it refuses to "allow" you to BE LGBT in any legitimate form. You cannot have a romantic partner of the same sex, you cannot have sexual relationships or hookups with the same sex, and you definitely are strongly devalued in their eyes for admitting feelings for someone of the same sex.
Basically, if you are gay and Mormon, you are doomed to be alone and a virgin forever...unless you decide to be miserable with a woman you can't get it up for...
Yeah but they expect him to live a completely alone life and never have any relationship. That's pretty awful
I went through 13 years of reparative therapy for being gay including electronic shock therapy. I was a Baptist Pastor and Missionary. It was fairly horrific but it did prove medically I was born gay. I never came out to my parents but I was married to my accepting wife for 51 years and cared for her with MS for 26 years before she passed in 2022. I never did come out to my parents. Being gay was illegal here in Australia during those years. None of that therapy worked. It was highly abusive. The entire medical profession declassified homosexuality as an illness in 1973 - 51 years ago.
I‘m so sorry. Did you come out now?
Only on UA-cam. He will die a straight man outside
I’m so sorry to hear that. Not that it’s usually useful to compare struggles, but my goodness does that put mine in perspective.
im so sorry :(
Took me 30 years to fully accept this part of my life. Felt great, and now I’m terrified of my country becoming a Christian Theocracy.
Hearing his experience of finally accepting himself and saying "thank you for the opportunity to love" brought me to tears. What a powerful statement. 💜
So, this "higher power", made him gay but it is ok now? Not very powerful to me. Still very narrow minded American nonsense.
As a gay ex-Mormon it’s so crazy to me to hear stories like this where he has accepting parents and still goes through conversion therapy. I specifically waited until my late 20s to come out when I was on my own and could deal with losing relationships with family and friends and couldn’t be forced into conversion therapy. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have supportive parents, haha.
Same here, although I come from a Baptist family. I saw a Christian therapist for a few sessions but it wasn’t doing much. It’s wild the things my parents thought might help “change” me to be straight. Working with my dad in the yard, hanging out with more women, praying… and then settling with good old fashioned threats of disownment just for talking about it, let alone acting on it.
Gay Ex-Mormon here in Arizona, there is an excellent group called ALL that is primarily for gay Mormons and their families where we are able to share our stories. It’s a great group and a reminder that we are not alone.
Nice to know they're still going strong. Used to be part of the group, but lost track of them.
I’ve always thought Mormonism would be the next major religion to accept homosexuality. But they haven’t proved me right yet.
This guy is extremely fortunate that his parents are so accepting. Mormonism is a very oppressive cult. I’m so glad to hear he made this progress and still has the support of his family.
I am not Mormon but I am very familiar with it and know a lot of amazing Mormon people. It is definitely not an oppressive cult. They do a lot of great things for many people. Yes they do have a belief system that they do there best to try and follow just like many other religions. They are also human beings who make some mistakes just like anyone else.
Fastest growing religion in America. They look happy if you ask me.
@freddieoblivion6122 11:10 is the part about double lives...
@@freddieoblivion6122 It’s funny that you say they look happy because many exmormons talk about how they were brainwashed to always look happy, appear cheerful, and be super friendly to give the impression of the religion being so great on the surface. Mormonism is actually very disturbing.
@@coolkat6728 Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying average Mormons are bad people at all. Most people who end up brainwashed into a cult are good people looking for higher purpose and meaning in life. Many of them want to help or contribute to society in positive ways. If cults appeared dangerous on the surface, no one would join them. It is in fact a very oppressive, controlling religion that uses shame & guilt to control the behavior of its followers.
Coversion Therapy should be banned. He was very lucky with his parents.
I hear in the UK it actually counts as child abuse if you make a child go through gay conversion therapy, it is because it's already been sceintifically proven gay conversion therapy doesn't work but only the UK takes it seriously, while in America parents are allowed to make their gay kids go through something like this. The American government allows this because they look at gay kids as being less innocent. I also had a white heterosexual man tell me that America is the best country ever.
In any developed country outside of the US it is.
I agree. Especially the conversion therapy taking place in public schools, being led by blue-haired androgynous people who lie to impressionable children about the differences between men and women, and fight for the ability to teach those children about sexual depravity.
It is in Canada now. I'm kind of bittersweet about it after having gone through it myself.
@@kevinsbikingadventures278 When you went through it were you an underage kid?
Great episode… your guest should be a therapist himself… his level of self-awareness is inspiring. And thank you Greg and Joe for asking the right questions!
I grew up Mormon and am pansexual, and genderfluid. This made me cry. I have an understanding with a greater power. Love is love. And love is life.
It's cool to see a new video from this channel I recently got back into watching you guys
Honestly I think gay conversion therapy should be completely abolished in this day an age
I love this guest’s energy ❤
Truly a topic for this month (or any other month actually). There has been considerable progress but some things remain the same.
You are an incredibly intelligent, concise speaker! Thank you for sharing your story!! ❤
Worst part about being a gay mormon is that even if you are out in church and living a celibate life they will still put you in what we call Singles Ward where single mormons are sent to church together so you can find a good mormon bride. It was genuinely awful. My experience was a very different experience with being gay and mormon, but very similar with conversion therapy. My parents were very much not accepting. My mom wouldn't be in the same room with me or speak to me for almost a year and my dad just pretended it was a phase. I ended up on drugs and being promiscuous just to stay out of the home and have a bed to sleep in as I was barely 18. I knew they wouldn't accept it easily and wasn't going to say anything but a good friends mom outed me, saying, "your son's gay. Here's the number for PFLAG." With conversion therapy it was an effort to eliminate your time to date. I think I had to go every day for a few hours, in addition to church, and work, and school. Some of it was aversion therapy, painful stimuli, and some was talk therapy to heal my trauma. I did it out of fear, but I knew it wouldn't change me
I am so very sorry you had to live like that and experience that. You are beautiful just the way you are. ❤️
@jakechartrand7308 Thanks, but I will take the bad as well as the good. My lived experiences, both positive and negative, have shaped me into who I am today, and who I am today is a person who is successful, happy, has learned that they are so much stronger than they thought possible, and led me to my soul mate. Had the bad not happened, a lot would be different in my life today and I wouldn't be in the same place that I am. So while a painful past may hurt at times and creep up on you in your future, it still put choices in my path that led me to today. And I love who I became despite the adversity, and so I embrace the bad parts as much as the good.
I’ve heard so many horror stories with LDS families who have a gay child, it’s nice to know that there are parents like his out there.
But they still perpetuate the hate by remaining in the religion.
Wow thats surprising in 2024. I live in homohpobic islamic country with non accepting parents in the middle east; Egypt. I suffered frpm the age of 18 till 20 and that was it for me. Once i left islam, i cam to peace of mind, i became way more emotionally mature. On the other hand, your guest lives in an open free country and had to spejd money and a time period of 7 or 8 yeas to come to this. Nonetheless, im delighted to hear he has overcome this internal battle as a winner ❤.
I loved hearing their first Mormon guest. This episode kinda glazed over a lot to get to the Gay therapy perspective (rightfully so). I don't know if Greg and Joe read the comments but if they want to really dive into Mormon history, teachings, culture, and theology Ive tried to get on the show for a while now.
Contact Shelise Ann Sola on Cults to Consciousness. She’d probably have you on to tell your story.
He needs to be a guest on Mormon Stories podcast. (interviews with ex-Mormons)
yes!!!
I like how he said he respects his families spiritual tradition and he accepts himself. Good on him. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders
BE WHO YOU ARE FOR YOUR PRIIIIIIDE!
Just be you for being human , not for pride !
@@AB-by8xu You're taking the statement too literal, it's a meme on the internet.
literally sang this every time they said it hahaha
@mindyourbusiness660 Pride is not a meme. It is a sin. Anyone who pretends to be proud of their deviant sexual behavior is trying to cope with profound personal unhappiness.
Never for pride, ewwwwwww. You can only be yourself, nobody else.... 😊😊😊😊😊
I was also raised mormon, and was also put through a gay conversion therapy program the church ran, back in the 1990s. I was really seriously messed up by it.
Thanks guys for sharing. this octogenarian related to this man's struggles and to his willingness to share it with us. ♡
whether he knows it or not, HE created this amazing ripple effect! he took the journey that was right for him during that time and granted his parents to love and save others just like him. just like me ❤️🔥
Gay inactive Mormon here from east coast. I went through a lot of the same things growing up but I went on a mission and went to BYU in hopes that it would change me but never did. Haven’t active in church since I graduated.
This has to be one of my favorite episodes. Although he had a very specific journey I am soooo glad he’s been able to accept himself and that his parents show acceptance as well. It’s very apparent that the throughout his therapy journey he has gained a lot of self awareness. Personally I don’t think any god should be a hateful one.
When you’ve been telling yourself “I have the chance to be normal, I don’t want to be gay” it’s easy to jump at something like “therapy”
I was raised in this faith. My parents joined when I was 6 or 7. I’ve never heard of this therapy. I’m no longer active but I don’t have issues with the church. I had issues with fellow members that thought they were in charge of my life.
I’m an exmo and it was super pleasant to hear this episode growing up in the church I remember a talk that homosexuality is very immoral. And it was very shameful and unacceptable. We were encouraged to tell the bishop to talk to him if we were dealing with any homosexuality. And i remember there was a member who came out as lesbian she was excommunicated and i remember hearing about gay conversion therapy the church did it wasn’t talked about much.
He very lucky to have accepting loving parents.
Thank you for highlighting our stories. Even when it’s made illegal those loopholes of “unwanted attraction” allow conversion therapy to continue to happen. So many of us don’t survive conversion therapy and I’m so glad I found a community to heal with.
After listening to this person, I have further realized that indoctrination runs so deep that he was still trying to hold on no matter what. Organized cults and religion are not the same as having one's personal belief in spirituality. I want to believe that his way of thinking and that his brain is no longer weak and that he is still not praying to that same person that he once believed to be true. I know he stated that he now believes in spirituality of his own and that there is a higher power but a part of me still thinks that he is still holding on to Mormonism. I'm very happy to hear that he is happy nonetheless.
You guys really need to watch the movie latter days Which is about gay mormons and gay conversion therapy.This movie is from 2004 and still happens today.In certain areas is nothing like what is said in this interview?You really need to watch it no matter how uncomfortable it makes you Darien.Watching you need to watch the whole thing in its entirety
LOVE LOVE LOVE that movie!! One of my very favorite gay movies. ❤
My aunt did this in the beginning of her therapy career. Obviously everyone does it different but my aunt was Mormon and came out to us a few years ago (I'm not religious) and it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen when a group of people can put aside their differences in beliefs and just accept someone.... She knew not all children and people went through that with their families and wanted to help them experience what she did❤
Thank you for that reminder to be thankful & take time for one's self!
“Holding session” -also known as as cuddling
And the "hot" guys definitely get more cuddling than others.
This was a great episode❤ thank you guys for sharing his experience
The cold open is the definition of ‘on point’. Gay camping is just so much more fun as a concept and you’re just being honest.
I also know of the justification being taught in the LDS church, before marriage equality, is that you can be gay but because you aren't supposed to have premarital sex and you can never let married that you should just direct all energy back into the church and your mission
Here in Israel we always try to make this therapies illegal because when you promise someone to cure what he percive as the worst illness possible and very terrible shameful thing to live with, when it doesnt work, and it doesn't, the self blame on the raise and the suicidal thoughts and attempts as well, and this is a very well researched and based subject. inefficient treatments are dangerous and should be banned.
Love you guys! Thank you for giving voice to the issue - and others like it. You're greatly appreciated!
I love this episode. He is so articulate and self-aware. What a journey of self acceptance. Wish him a happy and healthy life.
I love your channel. You're so good at what you do... Don't know how I haven't subscribed before now! I've subscribed now
This is a good example of how you should not do science.
I'm gay, and also dedicated many years in learning scientific fields, psychology among them.
Here is the thing. It is true that many gay guys lack of non sexual/romantic deep bondings with men. And I believe addressint this problem can benefit their mental health greatly.
But what this therapist is doing is to reach for a conclusion that draw a causation link between that observation and the person's sexual orientation, with no proofs at all.
I also don't have any proofs about it, but for me as a gay guy, the lack of bondings with men is probably became because I couldn't feel comfortable in my own skin in the society I'm living in, especially in school when social pressure and image is a very big deal. For humans this is as important as survival itself, we are a social creatures, we are programmed to belong and adapt.
Because I feared very seriously to be revealed by other men in highschool when they would notice that I don't reacte to girls like they do...
And so, the only choice left was being around girls, so you are getting adapted to them to the more containing soft feminine company, and you learn to see the beauty in all their hobbies and manners.
That's where I think the causing more reasonably be, and thats why those therapies don't work.
A bit of evidences for my argument,
for example, try to think how many unpopular boys by other boys ended up being straight.
Think about how many men in a all females families ended up being straight.
Think about all the bisexual men who were perfectly blended in every step in their whole life, seen as straight by all who knew them, and it didn't turn them a bit straighter.
So. Socializing issues among gay people are real and sad. Doesn't necessarily point on causation
I used to cry and pray to make me not attracted to other women. It didn’t work.
I totally understand the pain and frustration of not being able to say hi to someone in public. I've been out since I was 16 but a majority of the guys I've dated or fooled around with have been very closeted. Some guys just can't take the paranoia of being outed and suddenly their whole behavior can change towards you when in public. Sometimes so much so that they wind up shooting themselves in the foot. My friend circles have always been big huggers and openly affectionate so if a guy who usually was all hugs with everyone suddenly gives me the side shoulder pat or a fist pump when everyone is hanging out...well, it stands out. Even had one friend pull me aside one time and say, "Wow. Never thought you two would..." Out of respect for privacy and not wanting to out anyone I of course denied but still got that look back like, "...uh huh, sure." lol
... and then Betterhelp ad... Ugh... I thought most UA-camrs had clued in by now... The FTC is taking action against them... Please don't accept their sponsorship going forward!
his parents were surprisingly different. in my opinion, if you are a parent who chooses your religious views over loving AND fully accepting your child, you’re automatically a bad parent. there should be no grey area in that discussion.
I definitely raised my eyebrows a few times about the things the therapist had them do.. I don't want to assume, but it sounds like he found a way to hide his own homosexuality in plain sight.
In Canada, it’s a criminal offence as it should be. Conversion therapy is horrible.
Young Turks had a show about "are homophobes gay", and at the end of the video, they talk about this
How a person that is not a sexologist will be the expert to turn towards, on these topics. And going back to the roots of these fields and history.
It is baffling how overlooked history is. How little understanding there is of where we came from, where we are now, and where we are actually heading in the future.
From some of the research I've done it suggests homosexuality is biological and determined in the utero by pre natal hormones and the organisational effects on the brain, as is gender traits. It's believed that gay men, during some point in fetal life, were exposed to unusually low levels of androgens, which allowed their hypothalamic circuits to develop in a female-typical direction. If testosterone levels during a critical prenatal period are high , the brain is organized in such a way that the person is predisposed to become typically masculine in a variety of gendered traits, including sexual attraction to females. If testosterone levels are low during that same time period, the brain is organized in such a way that the person is predisposed to become typically feminine in gendered traits, including sexual attraction to males.
Sexual orientation is an aspect of gender that emerges from the prenatal sexual differentiation of the brain. Whether a person ends up gay or straight depends in large part on how this process of biological differentiation goes forward, with the lead actors being genes, sex hormones and the brain systems that are influenced by them. The organisational effects of hormones on the brain prior to birth have permanent effects. Neuroscientific studies have shown that the brains of lesbians are partially masculinized and gay mens partially feminized. Patterns of brain organisation appear similar between gay men and heterosexual women and between lesbian women and heterosexual men. Gay men appear, on average, more “female typical” in brain pattern responses and lesbian women are more “male typical”. Differences in brain organisation mean differences in psychology and study after study show differences in cognition between heterosexual and gay people. Gay men and lesbians brains are also structured like those of the opposite sex. These are only shifts and not complete gender reversals, and they don't affect every gender trait.
22:44 to clarify, when joe says "made the decision 'i'm gay'" he probably means that the caller made the decision to accept that part of himself and stop hiding it and not that he was like, "k april 6, 2012 i choose to like men"
Great episode❤
I was never a mormon but grew up in a fairly conservative Christian environment and bought into it for most of my life. Came out in college and held the belief that it was ok to be gay but it's sinful to act on it. I'm pretty lucky that no one in my life tried to push me towards conversion therapy. It was right before graduating college that I came to believe that it's ok to be gay AND to do gay things. It's been over a decade since then. I'm an atheist now and my bf and I have been together 5 years.
gay ex muslim here, thank u so very much for standing in your authenticity
Happy pride 🏳️🌈👩❤️💋👩
I can't beieve that in parts of the USA so many people are so obsessed and imbibed with religion! We in Australia of course have lots of religious influence but not to the same extent. And although my parents had a little religion it was not all pervading. I studied science and part of that was nuclear physics and I also had an intrest in astronomy. So I rationalised and quickly rid myself of any religon or god belief in my late teens and early 20's. I discovered the gay community and now at 75 have had a rewarding and acceptable life as part of an minority of which gay people always will be in. But I cannot understand how someone cannot completely rid themselves of religon and the god fantasy and an ectreme control of churches. The double standards, control and perversions common in churches and being exposed more and more now is evidence of it being based on a fantasy and containing nothing!
I need to go these gay conversion therapies. I'm sure I can score great dates there.
This story in a way shows this LDS community is not a monolith. Everytime I hear experiences of ex-LDS, gay or not, there is a basic overlap but also many minor differences. I grew up LDS in the Netherlands, 1980, went to secular school in a society that was mostly secularized. I'm so glad I grew up in the Netherlands looking back. However I am longer ex-mormon than that I have been mormon in my life. I'm also gay, and ex-communicated for that. Different times. I understand the church slightly changed stances on this topic.
However I had been told that had I been in the USA I would have been advised/told (socially pressured) to go to conversion therapy. That was the go-to solution, as it had always been. Since conversion therapy had hit the market. (Different story and very interesting as well.)
I know of many examples that tell about "shunning" practices with LDS gay ex-members.
Long story short; being raised that way, but also the falling out of my base community - it made me have in interest and study; psychology, sociology, theology, biology, sexology but in the main reason to understand myself better, and others in that process.
The church and their views on homosexuality was not very outspoken, but it was there.
All the references they gave in the scriptures towards these topics where present.
In my struggle with this, I've looked. I've checked. You had our LDS literatures, etc.
All of them homophobic, more or less. You can't live an out and open life as a gay, they want you to marry and have children. Being gay was a choice you made, being tempted by the devil. In being this you chose to live under the influence of satan, and going to hell.
Also they have had places that pushed gender transitionings with their conversion therapies, not specific LDS but Christian conversion therapy places.
There is also this controversial doctor in the trans medical community who was LDS, very weird and strange story; God told him to do the work he did. He also messed up many lives. Complicated story. (Dr. Butcher Brown [John Ronald Brown])
It is hard to explain the social pressure when you are raised in these types of communities.
I mean you "choose" to be baptized at the age of 8.
But mostly you are going throught the motions of the expected norm.
Don't take me wrong, I believed in the things they taught me (as a child).
I also got excommunicated for being gay, and married in a same sex relationship.
Guess in order to keep member numbers (+ profits) as high as possible, they changed tunes.
It's called Torture bro.
Excellent interview!!!
Love his energy.
9:09 he was born gay, he had a-typical behavior... 75% of LGBTI+ kids have this... the logic used is so flipped. We in the majority are born this way.
I can't believe I'm still having to say this 20+ years later. Secular world has done studies on these topics and don't have the need for an imaginary friend to tell them what is what. The data tells them, it's not unnatural but part of diversity.
Again also knowing when he had these experiences would be very helpful. I get how pre 1994 things would have been different and slowly progressing afterwards. It was part of the reason why same sex marriag became legal in the Netherlands in 2001.
I went through a very similar process in AZ 20 years ago. Sad that it kept going
I'd like to add, I also grew up Mormon in a devout family in a predominant Mormon area, with similar background in the same period as the caller. Except I'm hetero. The shame, guilt, repression, infantilization and other issues are the same the only difference is we didn't have the added pressure of trying to deny our natural sexual identities. The Mormon faith crushes your soul and self-worth.
His parents sound like amazing people. And I love that they are being low-key subversive towards the church.
you guys should watch but i’m a cheerleader
That is a good movie. There are also 2 good movies based on that idea but are serious about it, like Boy Erased and The Miseducation of Cameron Post.
Self-pleasure (the M-word) is the Sin Next To Murder. If you do that while married more than twice a year, that means you are addicted and need to attend the LDS 12-step addiction program. If your wife doesn’t just immediately divorce you once she finds out.
Wow! if that is truly your belief then you seriously need therapy!
@@ericscanlan8406
That is Mormon/LDS doctrine.
Seeing a BetterHelp sponsorship on videos like this is so disheartening. While therapy is super important, BetterHelp is one of the worst ways to do it. From employing non-licensed therapists, to selling your mental health data to companies like Facebook, I don’t know how anyone can proudly recommend them
Gay ex-mo here, who also was "encouraged" by his bishop to go to similar therapy.... So glad I decided against it!
At 65 I don't want to remember. And today I found my 86 year old father has passed. 😢❤
Rest in peace 😞
I,m A Single Gay Man from Northwest Ohio And i,m Looking For a Loving Caring And a Understanding Fella
Even though it sucks this guy spent $20k on this, I feel like the silver lining is the part he talks about where his parents who are still involved can still try to influence people away from this harmful, wasteful therapy.
I had an unexpectedly strong negative reaction to this caller. I don't know why. I think I'm angry that he didn't go all the way and completely renounce organized religion and indoctrinated spirituality, and forge ahead as a humanist or atheist or something. After the trauma he endured, this made me angry. Like an unsatisfactory ending to a movie I really loved.
Greg, if it helps, I thought he had to act out in front of the others too
It is common. My first lover was older. Married twice had 4 kids
"You cant have any of the perks in this life or the next so whats the point?"
Money. The point is money.
I was also friends with girls. Id been beaten up since 2nd grade. My parents were never racist, bigoted, etc...
I always thought it was a scam
it sure does seem like one but is it a legal scam or an illegal scam. can he sue the mormon church to get his money back since they scammed him?
“That hugging thing was my idea”😂😂😂😂
This was so funny. To bad it’s so sad!
Religion sucks. Happy to be an Atheist!
7:50 I think it would be good to give a better context. I was 19 in 1999. Which is different from being 19 in 2019, normally speaking.
I know the speaker was 19, good in context of his life path and age development factors, not so much the zeitgeist. Maybe I missed something but it would be good to give dates with thing for context in the general public as well. And at the same time it can show how backwards these religious mindsets can be, if he did so.
I also felt like I was the only one, didn't know of any in my direct space, etc. [gays] Let me tell you with our long and complex LGBTI+ history we are far from the first and could never be the only ones. But little do we know growing up in these social bubbles. We semi knew, it existed. Born 1980; Satanic panic, and HIV scare is the era I grew up in. Denial, what can I say. But that need for denial was a social construct, both the religious as the secular at that time. It wasn't until the DSM IV homosexuality wasn't deemed a psychological disease, in the DSM III it still was. 1994.
Sadly this happens with a lot of members of churches… a double life
His prayer😭❤
Brave awesome young man ❤
Dad!!!! ❤
I've been alone for twenty years now, my catholic leaders have embraced me as a gay man. I can have loving non-sexual, non-physical relationships with other men. I must not cross the line. Life has been lonely, I wouldn't wish this path on anybody, but ultimately it has been my own choice.
No it hasn’t. Let it go go to the Unitarian Church and be yourself.
That's tragic
Wow. His mom's initial reaction was vile. She can't get that moment back. So tragic that her love for her son was conditional.
Trust me, his mom had an amazing reaction compared to most of us gay Mormons get from our parents. 😂😅
@@peterhoyt2529 A sad truth. 😞
It's interesting to see how a religion like this with "chosen ones" breeds mindsets to be a person that special to be chosen (by god) to do something. It gives people that complex of being superior, better over others. [This doesn't always have to be inherently a bad thing, but most often is.]
Secular upbringing/parenting could have similar results but minus the god aspect. There would be a different type of reasoning; tallent, DNA or family connections.
I was raised Mormon, most of my family is very Mormon, and I'm 28 and only just realized I'm a lesbian in the past year. I tried coming out as bisexual when I was 20 and my mother cried and basically forced me back into the closet. I've been married to 2 men, and divorced twice. I am terrified to come out to my family, they all say such homophobic things about my cousins who are openly queer that I know exactly what they will think of me. The Mormon church claims to be the single true religion on the earth, yet I feel my story and this man's story proves that the doctrine they teach is way too diverse to come from divine truth. I was taught in church and in my family that being gay if you've been baptised makes you a "son of perdition" which is the only thing that can send you to "outer darkness" which is basically Mormon "hell", where you wander in the dark for all eternity searching for safety and light and never finding it. I have a friend (woman) who has a husband who is openly gay and admits to choosing to be straight so he can go to heaven. It breaks my heart to think about the possibility that he will leave her someday if forcing himself to live as a straight man becomes intolerable. She would never be the same, and I know he would be demonized to their child. Religion can be so healing for some, but so damaging for others, and it's just so frustrating that people allow their religious beliefs to turn them hateful.
To the stake president (guy above the bishop in leadership) who suggested that therapy… just no. I’m sure it was well intentioned, but the parents had the right idea of “you are what you are.” I’m an active member of the Church but hate how kids suffer in these harmful therapies. To be clear, I’m pretty sure the Church does not officially endorse anything of the sort and decisions like that come down to local leadership
Not boys stens from seeking love from a father but also syper complicated and not only reason
09:00 oh yeah my though was immediately about what comes first: does one hang out with children of opposite gender and that`s why they "become gay" or they just are gay and thus often share more of the same interests with children of the opposite gender (please don`t start on the genders right now, this was only to simplify the picture, Im pan myself and all)
Did he ever bring up a meaningful relationship? It just sounds like endless casual sexual relationships that will go nowhere. Sounds like a path to loneliness 10-15 years down the line.
The poor guy can’t stop talking. He’s got a great story but he needs help telling it coherently and smoothly.
It’s all about people needing to control other people. Observe the Republican national convention.
Why are you working with better help as a sponsor? There's a lot of issues with that company for both clients and therapists..
Amazing
The more you know 🌈⭐😉
Worked on a LGBTQIA+ therapy unit where a patient said something remarkable that I think almost universally applies to LGBTQIA+ folks raised in religious homes. To free herself from constraints of accepting who she is, she had to "fire that God" she grew up with. So Damn True‼️‼️ Doing so gives people the opportunity to discern & choose a version of God that works for us who are LGBTQIA+‼️‼️
Btw, the Kinsey scale is 0-6, where straights are the zeros. 😆
It's always a gracious moment to see ppl leave their pick-me phase after religiously ppl hype them up.