I remember seeing a video where the devs of Bugsnacks reacted to a speedrun of the game. A number of the glitches and out of bounds things the speed runner actually used turned out to be things the devs were aware were possible, but their mentality was as long as they made sure no one was going to stumble onto it by accident playing normally they might as well leave it for speedrunners or glitchers to play with. I think thats a better approach.
@@mihael64 this is what I love about nadeo and the trackmania games. When the devs released trackmania 2020, they intentionally added the most popular glitches from previous games, such as bugsliding, into the game as features!
The thing that kills me about them trying to prevent this """"""glitch"""""" is the fact that the Cat Momentum Cancel actually makes more sense than anything else. Sure, cats scratch and take massive leaps (before inevitably finding out about gravity), but cats are also very fast and agile, so having a cat go mach 5 through the air to beat the level in roughly 30 seconds less than usual is what personally makes it unique to the others.
Fun fact: with the Nintendo Selects line of re-releases, Nintendo actually patched glitches the community found after the original release. So Nintendo has been doing this for far longer than the Switch days.
This goes all the way back to Player's Choice too. The Player's Choice version of Metroid Prime patches the glitch that lets you get the Space Jump Boots before anything else. Hell, even back to the N64. In japan they patched BLJs in Mario 64, thats why the Switch version doesn't have the glitch because they based it on the "fixed" version.
i should've said this on the first video where you claimed that you need to factory reset your switch to play a physical game on 1.0. you don't. if you *archive* the game instead of deleting it, your switch will tell you that some necessary data was not found and that it will be installed now, however, unlike if you delete the game, there will be an option to start the software without installing this "necessary data" (which is just the updates)
what i like about this comment is how much it puts what ceave said into perspective the nintendo community (speedrunners especially) has gotten so used to having to bypass in nintendos stupid glitch policy that they eductate themself on how to hack a modern console. All for what, a glydon clipping glitch? anyway thanks for the info ill get out my switch, electrical tape, and bent paper clips
Yes, but in case of Mario Maker this would break the game. It would break all Cat suit stages for map makers. I honestly really do not see Ceave's point in this video, I understand that getting used to new controls can be problematic, especially when playing more casually - but if the point of the game is to let creators, like Ceave might I add, to make the stages they want, you don't want to have a "feature" to force the creators not to use a certain power up unless their stage is specifically designed around one unintended "feature" the power up CAN use
as a wise man once said, "if you find a glitch that is more fun than any other point in your game, rebuild your entire game based around that glitch." it's how they kept in combos starting from street fighter 2, it was originally never an intended mechanic, but since the QA testers found it very fun, they embraced it and continued to implement it in their future SF games. this "glitch" was revolutionary in the FG genre entirely.
Same with the game Ultrakill. Punching your own projectiles into explosive shrapnel was a glitch, but it worked so well, and looked so awesome, that they made it into a feature.
Same could technically be said for the BUD glitch in Minecraft. While the BUD glitch is still in the game, Mojang decided to make an entire block dedicated to detecting block updates.
Cat dive cancelling is like wavedashing in melee, it wasn’t intended and it’s less of a glitch and more of abusing the physics engine but it creates cool situations
Heck, at least Sakurai noticed it in Melee and intentionally left it there (which strengthened the game's identity) and only removed it from Brawl because he felt like it create too much dissonance between skill levels. And even then he brought back a nerfed version in Ultimate.
I think the cat momentum glitch stacks right, like infinite speed? So it'd make it possible to make levels that could only be completed by doing it which might be Nintendo's fear. Edit: ah it just conserves momentum. So you're just allowed to move faster than top speed for a little bit longer because you keep the speed of the dive. This would be bad for ninji speedruns as Nintendo are not big fans of making hard unintuitive maneuvers normal.
@WILD CRACKS a glitch is code that doesn't work properly. An exploit is abusing a glitch, or code that works properly to get an unintended result. Stuff like this is a non-glitch exploit because the code works properly, it just creates a situation that the developers didn't think it would through it's interactions with other part of the game.
I was tempted to actually buy a switch and get mario maker, but this weird and unintiutive design shit has turned me off from putting forth the effort to get it.
I remember seeing an episode of "devs react to speedruns", where the developers of Control (I think it was) said that during the development they asked if a bug would be useful for speedrunners, and if it was breaking for casual players. They left in many "bugs" because the wanted speedrunners to have fun.
This reminds me of shitty “art projects” in elementary school that allowed for absolutely zero creativity and were graded for how well you followed directions. It wasn’t art or fun anymore.
Makes me remember when we the assignment was something like "Draw a room, using the skills you've learnt in this class so far." After some deliberating I came up with my idea: Bubble of distorted space-time in an amusement part. I interpreted the bubble as the room. The skills I would use are how I've learned to draw stickmen looking normal, stuff about perspective the teacher didn't "tech" & some other basic stuff. When I got it back I got a 0 in some "Following the assignment rules" metric, as well as creativity for some reason. (you shouldn't even grade that) I remember crying, being super confused about what the hell I did wrong & didn't even challenge her view. I just kinda broke down. Looking back she wanted me to draw a 3d rectangle, which we "learned" about in the previous days, not a sphere.
My 9th grade "art" class was literally just copying images, shading and all. There was absolutely nothing creative, and the one or maybe two times we weren't copying, we had extremely strict rules to follow.
Cause they seem to not care about efficiency and long term effects, but rather they just care about "making something work". That's the kind of mentality I hate, tbh. The good minds think not only in "How to make it work" but also in "How to make it work WELL".
@@johnmarkson1990 99%? Obviously not. Stacked pipes are gone & there's no excuse that can't be countered by hidden blocks, enemies in blocks, off screen thwomps, sideways thwomps, parachute thwomps, hammer bros., bloopers, warp blocks, locked warp blocks, or horrible hit detection on every hazard/enemy. Most of the game's content is either unavailable in 3DW or exclusive to 3DW. Simple concepts are tied to night time for no reason. Using Yoshi in no-landing levels is impossible for no reason. Using boots/cars in them is almost impossible too. Checkpoints are unavailable in clear condition levels even though the only possible reason for that rule only applies to certain clear conditions & it doesn't really make sense then either because the checkpoints could disappear when you fail just like the goal does. Crossing pits without jumping is allowed in no-landing levels in some situations always & in other situations never or only sometimes but there's no logic behind the exceptions. Bouncing on enemies & bumpers doesn't count as landing but bouncing on springs & note blocks does. Clear conditions for carrying things aren't in SMB1 even though the SMB2 mushroom & master sword let you carry things. They removed the ability to put things at the beginning of a level (including background objects) so there'd be room for 4 players even though they could've just given us the option to set how many players our levels allow like LittleBigPlanet 1 was already doing in 2008 or let us label our levels as single player or co-op like N+ was already doing in 2008. Getting score from touching the goal yet still dying from time out is common. Killing an enemy by landing on it yet still dying isn't even super rare. You can stop beside a muncher but then die while you're walking away from it. If you land on a dead, upward-facing creeper, you fall through it & get killed by nothing 100% of the time. Been that way since launch & Nintendo has no interest in fixing it. Bosses multiple screens away spam RNG fire constantly, everyone has always hated it since MM1 launched, & it still hasn't been changed or turned into an option you can toggle. Look how much more broken no-landing levels are than I already mentioned: ua-cam.com/video/WA74_lSbdlk/v-deo.html I actually like the tricks shown in that video even though they don't make sense because they're fun if you know 'em but that brings me to my next example: There are no text blocks even though old Mario games have 'em so levels with complex meta concepts have to go far out of their way to teach players the concepts instead of being able to just tell the player how it works. Sure, learning organically is often more fun than reading a text block but kaizo levels & glitch levels would often be a lot more fun if their concepts were explained in text & then the glitches & tricks Nintendo worries so disproportionately about wouldn't be such a problem.
@@D_YellowMadness the collision detection thing exists because it is generally a more pleasant gameplay experience to (for example) barely slip past the jaws of a piranha plant than to have the game kill mario because his foot brushed by its outermost tooth. this principle (subtly skewing the game in the player's favor to make it more satisfying to play) has been a thing in mario games and video games in general for literally decades, and takes many forms such as increasing/decreasing the area of an object's collision detection (for some mario examples, look up the hitboxes of piranha plants in the original super mario bros, or how far away you can pick up a coin in sm64), giving the player slightly more health than the hud shows, or making computer-controlled enemies in fps always miss their first shot to let the player know they are there. cannon hitboxes are like they are to simplify the calculations done with them (it is slightly faster to have the cannon's sprite refer to the same hitbox in all its orientations than to individually check each cannon's orientation to see what its hitbox is). the piranha creeper thing is probably (though I do not know for sure) because you land on the base on the stem (vine? thorny green neck?). they might have had trouble implementing stacked pipes with different colored pipes, most likely in the 3-dimensional 3dw style, and decided they would rather have colored pipes than stacked pipes. not every cut feature is cut because of balancing reasons.
On a happy note, in Animal Crossing New Horizons they patched out a harmless glitch that let you film in the camera app without interface. Everyone was super pissed, but in the next update they made it a feature! As in there’s a button to turn off the interface now! I was more excited about that then anything else in that update honestly.
The animal crossing PR team suck ass. they should fire the whole team and hire some english devs that will implement all the quality of life features that fans have demanded for 20 years. we shouldnt settle for medicority (adding one camera feature)
@@johnmarkson1990 Yeah, like where's the durability indicators (meter or visibly cracked tools like the axe in previous games), (new) ability to adjust music volume, and crafting more than one item at a time? (Also, the ability to use the tilted camera used when reading mail would be cool too.)
Remember that time Miyamoto was asked about the Minus World, and said "That’s a bug, yes, but it’s not like it crashes the game, so it’s really kind of a feature, too!" What happened, Shiggy? What changed?
Given his crusade to ruin Paper Mario, I believe he's just getting old. (Origami King is pretty good IN SPITE of Shiggy's limitations, not because of them).
He's gotten old, and grumpy. More importantly than that however, Nintendo has never really cared much for their games being used competitively. And the catsuit wave-dash technique was a big part of 3d world speed-running. Perhaps it's meant to dissuade an certain audience from associating themselves as Nintendo Fans. But then again, Miyamoto himself is a bit of a salty codger when it comes to modern Mario, since he always envisioned Mario as a more mature character, and feels that Nintendo made the character's image too family-friendly.
IMO the best comparison is Minecraft. In minecraft there has been a long ongoing glitch that allowed for bud-switches which became part of many contraptions. Mojang was aware of that glitch and knew how to fix it, but kept it in for a long time because they didn't want to destroy their players contraptions. And when they decided to fix that glitch (that also caused other effects that weren't benefitial for playing the game) they also implemented a new block that can be used to implement budswitches, so players could still use the feature in a similar way. What Nintedo did with the icicles is the exact opposit. I could tell that having too much global ground could lead to problems, but just removing that property from an item without warning and with no replacement means they are technically telling the players, they should damn fucking play the game the way they intent it and they will remove anything being done differently just to make sure we know who's in charge.
Yeah, Nintendo is just like "NO! I AM NOT LETTING YOU DO THAT!" to things that aren't even big glitches. It's like they REALLY don't like Glitches like they hate Glitches more than a typical company.
Of course, on the flip side with Minecraft, they're still infuriatingly keeping the modding community wholly divorced from the maingame. I wish they'd just collaborate with the forge team directly already, I'm so tired of every mod breaking with every teeny tiny update and every major version being a potential island for modmakers to just get bloody stranded on.
I honestly think that quasi-connectivity should be removed. It is unintuitive, confusing for 99% of players, and breaks certain contraptions. But the redstone community is so attached to it that it will probably stay in the game forever
One of the only times ive seen Nintendo actually hear the fans and make a bug a feature, is the camera glitch on Animal Crossing. People had the idea to create movies/animations on the game, using a glitch that removes the camera hud, wich didn't hurt anyone, but actually made ir more enjoyable. In the next update, the bug was patched, wich made a lot of people mad/dissapointed. But then, the devs actually realized, that it added more to the game and it's charm, so they made it an actual feature. Kinda weird, a part of Nintendo is just a grumpy old man who doesn't accept change, while the other helps and listens to the comunity, improving a game.
I think Animal Crossing is an odd example considering there are so many quality of life features players have been asking for so long and yet haven't been implemented yet. It's like they'll only choose to listen to very particular and specific opinions of their fanbase. I honestly don't know what are their priorities.
Wall jumps in mario originated as an unintended glitch. That’s one of the most iconic things in all of mario but if people found it now, nintendo would axe it
For the cat suit specifically, I don't get why they didn't just give mario a speed cap, unless in certain situations where mario is suposed to go above normal speed.
At least the icicle thing has one possible reason I can think of: lag. Something that's likely very important to them is having a cap on the resources that can be loaded at once and testing that cap against the hardware they support with some leeway for dust buildup etc. to ensure smooth gameplay. Having potentially lots and lots of extra objects hanging around messes with that. That said, I'd prefer having it in and blaming the level creator for lag when they do excessively dumb things. (And yes, there are other ways to lag the game from spawning in extra objects. That doesn't mean that suddenly anything goes.) But yeah, that kind of management of how many objects are loaded max is pretty important to game devs in general, but this is a game where people create their own levels, so it takes some more work to manage that in the first place.
Good thing they made their hardware very well. 👏 definetly loving the drift and the fan that is about to blow up by the sound of it as well as the minimum storage.
@@FailerGamer nintedo makes good games but the management there is just full of shit they have no clue what they're doing and seem to not care about the quality of their products so yea I agree
I mean, not that I think Mario Maker objects are particularly memory intensive, but if you have a mechanism in place for unloading objects dynamically, and a cap on the number of objects that never unload, there are worse potential issues than just lag if you exceed that limit. When you start messing with the assumptions about memory space, I'd think the worst case would be arbitrary code execution leading to bricked or security-compromised consoles. Is that realistic? I don't know. But if it's possible, it does seem worth Nintendo's effort to prevent someone uploading a malicious level rather than rely on catching it later.
Back when I was trying to code it was more like 341 bugs in the code, Take one down, patch it around, It's broken now and nothing works, also it can't be undone and everything is on fire.
This is just a Japanese thing. Take a look at this interview from the developer of Splatoon when asked why you can’t pick what maps you play on online. “It’s not just language. It’s a way to perceive games, and the user. I see it on Splatoon right now. You look at Splatoon, and then people look at Overwatch. These are two totally different games. Overwatch is a self-service game. You boot the game and say, “Hey, I like this mode. I like this character. And I’m only ever going to play this mode, this character, and this map.” You’re like, “I’m going to get what I want.” But in Japan, everything is tailored. You’ve probably heard Sheena Iyengar’s TED talk, in which she went to a restaurant in Japan and tried to order sugar in her green tea. The people at the cafe said, “One does not put sugar in green tea,” and then, “We don’t have sugar.” But when she ordered coffee instead, it did come with sugar! In Japan, there’s a sense of, “We’re making this thing for you, and this is how we think this thing is better enjoyed.” This is why, in Splatoon, the maps rotate every couple of hours. And the modes change. “I bought this game. Why can’t I just enjoy this game the way I want?” That’s not how we think here. Yes, you did buy the game. But we made this game. And we’re pretty confident about how this game should be enjoyed. If you stick with us, and if you get past your initial resistance, you’re going to have the time of your life with this game. You’re really going to love it.” archive.is/RkHpw#selection-3099.0-3317.432 The Splatoon development team is the same as the one for Animal Crossing, another game that despite having many great things going for it, has infamously bad quality of life improvements. Essentially, it’s a cultural thing. Nintendo wants you to experience the game the way they intended because they believe they know the best way to enjoy a game since they’re the ones who made it. They think that by playing the game the intended way, even if you don’t like it at first, you will eventually start to appreciate it. Obviously this is VERY debatable, but those are the facts.
And imo it directly lead into both those games dying early and tragically. Similar to pokken tournament, Pokken DX and ARMS, it isn't only a lack of developer support that kills the game, but also fundamental design flaws and poor UI and PR decisions during the development process.
What a dick move, this is literally a terrible way to do things. Parents who control their kid's lives are abusive, so why should game developers hope for that? How incredibly selfish. To purposely lose sales and consumer happiness for a single petty change
A slight correction: this is a Japanese "service industry" thing. Not every Japanese game developer treats game design like a service and not every Japanese game developer has this attitude. From Software, for example, treats game design like they are crafting a toy or a sculpture. Once the design is set, they are done with fiddling with the project. If there are problems with producing the game experience like game breaking bugs, they will fix that, but once the game is out the game is pretty much set. The problem isn't that Nintendo is Japanese, the problem is that Nintendo treats video game development like it is a Japanese service industry. It doesn't have to be this way.
This whole thing reminds me of the Isabelle Assist trophy glitch in Smash Ultimate. The circumstances for activating are so specific that the odds for getting it on accident are astronomical. Plus, it relies on items, which are nearly always in casual games, at least 2 Isabelle's (one of the least played characters in Ultimate) and a pretty specific timing again making it hard to get on accident. The results were hilarious and i could see people playing a gamemode where everyone is Isabelle and the only thing you can do is the assist trophy glitch, now go. It's such a shame that it got patched cause it was so entertaining and didn't take away from anything else the game had
@@0008loser So as a developer, what do you do? Do you remove the glitch entirely? Or do you adjust how assist trophies work so that, after a certain number, they start deleting the oldest ones in order to stop the system from crashing? We know what Nintendo chose, but personally I think improving the stability of the glitch is the better way to go about it. I'm still bitter about it even now, and I'm sure many people are at least disappointed about it still. It's a great way to alienate your fanbase, especially when done repeatedly as Nintendo has done.
I've seen a similar game design choice in portal. In the Directors commentary, it says that there was some very creative skips found in some later test chambers. The plasterers showed them to the team. Guess what they did? Absolutely nothing. They where being innovative and creative with the portals, and it just added another layer of depth to the game. I feel this is a very smart choice for any game designer.
I really know of only 2 in the game. Chamber 14 with the floor portals and chamber 18 with the camera blocking the door. the section skipped in chamber 18 was always the thing stopping me from going all game without sv_cheats. since I didn't know about the fling because I overlooked it because the area is in an area that kills you if you go straight for it, and so I attempted to stack cameras to get the height and failed.
@@mikeysheep5380 there are some skips, especially in the more open old aperture section, where you can just shoot a portal across the map trough a hole in a wall somewhere to skip half of the level. Old aperture is generally the area of skips. While in the new aperture it's mostly shooting a portal while standing inside the portal the old aperture has a tone of skips which make you walk on top of the map and around it using the gels to get out of the level area.
It’s a weird culture thing at the end of the day, Nintendo looks at a glitch in their game like a failure on their part and consider it tarnishing to their entire reputation. Of course I think what they do is completely ridiculous as well, but I also see where they’re coming from since their spotless image is so important to them. Just typical, out of touch company shit I suppose.
I think it’s something to do with Japanese culture as well. People in Japan tend to be very perfectionist, and companies tend to adopt an ‘our way’ mentality, meaning that they make the product, and if you don’t like it you don’t buy it. I think Nintendo’s approach to bugs/exploits is a consequence of these cultures.
Oh yeah for sure, that’s kind of what I was getting at as well. You see it with all sorts of major Japanese companies, with exceptions being few and far between.
The Mario Maker community also proves why Nintendo's approach is so pointless, because they keep patching glitches and the community not only rediscovers the same glitch, they find it and many more each patch. I really think you need a more pragmatic approach to glitches, where the first consideration is whether it can crash the game - if it does a fix is in order almost no matter what, even if it is a speedrun glitch in circumstances. The second question is whether it interferes with normal gameplay, is it something that can mess with someone who just plays the game normally, again if yes i think a fix is in order. However if both answers are no, i don't think they should be fixed.
reminds me of when Mojang patched out the afk fishing farms in 1.16, but the community found it again before 1.16 even got fully released. Except, when Mojang patches something, they actually listen to their community.
I would say the second one is a bit off, the point is not whether a glitch interferes with normal gameplay, but if it does so in a detrimental way, for example, I can totally see someone realizing cat suit momentum and employing it on normal gameplay, but this doesn't worsen the experience for the person, and in fact, it improves it
I was talking about this with a friend of mine who used to play Tekken at a tournament level, and he made an interesting comparison Katsuhiro Harada's overall design philosophy with Tekken (and with the Soul Calibur games he had a hand in) is basically on the opposite end of the spectrum: Where Nintendo generally tries to purge any unintended esoterica that actually sees use, even if doing so harms the overall game feel, Harada tries to *preserve* anything in his games that people actually use, no matter how esoteric, even if it's to the detriment of the game as a whole. And the interesting thing is that in both cases, the downsides of those philosophies are only really noticeable if you're in too deep. Nintendo removes stuff that most casual players will never encounter unless they actively go looking for it. every Tekken game from 5 onward has just been tacking new mechanics onto Tekken 3, but that only matters in mid and high-level play.
Nintendo has a "curated" attitude. Just look at their justification for why there's no stage select in Splatoon, it boils down to "we know what you want, you don't." They're very much in a "my way or the highway" mindset.
@@internetdinosaur8810 We can if we spread propaganda. If we want people to stop buying nintendo/apple products we must spread lies. Thats how the vegan community grew. they lied about meat causing cancer.
I will never forget Shigeru Miyamoto saying he wants Nintendo to be like Disney and they really go out of their way to emulate their bullheaded nonsense. This is merely one of many examples of that. Nintendo makes great games but they operate best when they're slapped with some humility. It's no wonder why the Wii U days were more accommodating than the Switch will probably ever be.
So, in short: Nintendo doesn't believe in Ascended Glitches. Quite the contrast to Valve. The Soldier class in Team Fortress 2 is designed around an Ascended Glitch, namely rocket jumping.
@@greeny111 Really? What kind of physics system would give rise to wall jumping? Checking for being near a solid surface, rather than a solid surface below you?
I think they really need to take a step back on the Glitches and how to address them. Many are harmless and allow for interesting gameplay. Some are harmful, often because they'll crash or freeze the game or bog it down to 1fps, etc. THOSE should be fixed. But the harmless ones, as long as they aren't intrusive, I don't see the issue here.
*"...as long as they aren't intrusive,..."* This is the issue. What somebody considers intrusive is what somebody else doesn't. What should they do then? Hold surveys prior to creating each patch?.
@CoolDoominator *"honestly anything is better than nothing"* (Sorry, sent without replying) I don't think they have enough to to hold a survey for each and every glitch they would remove. They have new games to make you know?.
i feel the most memorable events in games is finding a unintended glitch for yourself, let it be well known or new, your proud of yourself that you found it without any outside help
Its not about polish here though. Games that have literally won awards for their polish are not glitchless. Nintendo's problem is a matter of internal doctrine. They consider any "unintended mechanics" (quite from an interview with the developers of Doom Eternal after watching the then-current any% world record of their month-old game) to be a glitch, and they consider any glitch to be 'disruptive' and seek to fix it. If the fix does not cause additional problems or break other systems that they notice in testing, they patch it.
Since they discovered the joy of DLCs and "expansions", I'm sure we will get games that are a bit less polished in the near future, especially since the old guard over there are getting old and will leave at some point soon.
@@Mangaka-ml6xo If that is the case, I am very worried for the future of Nintendo. I am aware that Nintendo is not perfect, and I am trying hard not to. Nintendo over the years has done a lot of wrong, and will continue to do so. What I am focusing on is not just good and evil, but where things go wrong. For most of my memory, Nintendo has been special, for good and ill. If recent trends continue, Nintendo will be just another soulless AAA video game corporation with no values other than the whims of making a quick buck. There is still hope. The old guard may be slowly dying out, but there might still be time to train a new one which will carry the legacy of Nintendo. I don't want to lose the continuity stretching back through much of video game history. My first(and less ridiculous-sounding) proposition is to have Shigeru Miyamoto climb the ranks of management. He is old enough to be there for much of the current arc of Nintendo, but he is likely healthy enough to oversee Nintendo for quite a while. He has been an icon to many, and a visionary over the years, as important as Walt Disney or Henry Ford. This will buy essential time to find new apprentices. I do have another plan, but it is hard to summarize with modern corporate language, and makes my "President Miyamoto" idea look normal. Using antiquated language more associated with monarchies, my ludicrous idea is to restore House Yamauchi to Nintendo, if one can legally even turn a publicly-traded corporation (NTDOY) into a sole or even joint proprietorship.
ice flower was my favorite power up, its so clever and can be used in cool ways like using enemies as projectiles or turning bullet bills into platforms
Now THAT is a power up with probably the most glitch potential in the entire game. Think about it. Good lord. Nintendo will probably never incorporate it sadly
they probably found 1 single bug and decided: Employees: Hey the Ice Flower has a few glit- Nintendo: *Throw it out* Employees: Wait we just spent 2 hours to code the thing into the game Nintendo: *Your fired*
@@Gabe413 apparently they are if nintendo is wasting money to fix glitches that only a few people will try and utilise after hours of grinding it, just to have fun in the game in a way Nintendo didn't intended
@@Gabe413 no they're not, but the exploits or glitches they use to optimize the game are never going to be found in normal play, so there is no reason to waste development resources on the speedrunners.
What makes this even more baffling is how they've made at least one official video compiling glitches and exploits in older games before. When DKC was finally released on Switch Online, they made a video showcasing some glitches and exploits, and while I have no idea where to find this I remember on the Nintendo Channel on the Wii around Mario's 25th anniversary they made a video showcasing many of the game's glitches and exploits. While these are games released long before patches or even any online gaming functionality were a thing, and IIRC before the Internet was even a common thing anyway, it truly baffles me how they're completely fine with the glitches in these games but not more modern ones. While Mario Maker is strongly built on online functionality, most of the patched "glitches" add more to the game.
Remember when Valve tried to patch b-hopping in hl2 by making the player get negative speed after exceeding a certain speed limit, but it just made going backwards even faster? Game development is pain (not that I know from first hand experience)
@@Kosmicant This doesn't make any sense, mario maker is literally about making new levels that nintendo didn't make. Not to mention people have no right to use the characters that Nintendo spent years of effort building
Finally, someone else saying and spreading exactly what I've been saying for years. Game developers: STOP PATCHING OUT FUN GLITCHES AND MOVEMENT TECH FOR NO REASON!!!!!
Nintendo already had a history of this way back in super mario 64. They released a patched version of it only in japan that fixes the backwards long jump glitch. It was called the Shindou edition.
And, judging by the gameplay in the 3D Collection, this is the edition that they are releasing in their All Stars game. Which probably means that most, if not all the bugs included in that All Stars release (64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1) will be patched. They'll probably patch the Switch release of 3D World too.
@blu if they were listening to he comunity they would've at least used a good old rom of 64, not the shindou edition, it's not that hard ro do wither since they're emulating everything and just changing some ui elements
Nintendo: "Hey Jeremy, what do you have there?" Jeremy: "Oh, just a glitch. It makes some things possible that never were! The people love it." Nintendo: *patches glitch immediately, removes jeremies medals and all levels, makes a statement on how we want you guys to play the game correctly, deletes anyone elses profiles for using the glitch in one level that isn't uploaded*
@Jay Jay On levels with the patched glitch maybe, when I played SMM1 Nintendo was lazy as hell with deleting exploit stages, maybe not so much now. Still, not 'every' level like what OP said.
12:30 This is something that a number of developers have picked up. If the game has it and it doesn't affect things like leaderboards or online play (or if it *does* but they can patch it for those instances specifically), they'll just leave it in.
Reminds me of Halo 2. One of the reasons I loved it so much was because of the glitches and tricks. When I got tried of playing the game the normal way, my friends and I would mess around with the glitches. Super jumping and getting out of the maps in campaign and multiplayer was so much fun and kept us busy for hours.
I just want to add this, if we do ever get a Mario 3D World Remake, depending on whether cat suit momentum is in the game or not will provide some evidence on the reasons is has been changed in Mario Maker 2, If the remake has cat momentum, then we can assume either a) Nintendo has listened to the community and put it back or b) that there was some other reason that they had to change the cat dive in Mario Maker 2 and if the remake does not have cat momentum then it would be safe to say that Nintendo did in fact actively remove cat momentum from Mario Maker 2 for one reason or another
I feel like the biggest reason why they didn't put it in SMM2 is because of online versus mode. Pinning people who know how to abuse momentum against those who don't could lead to a lot of salt
While this is true, it CAN have a negative effect. Melee as an example. What was supposed to be a party game played with all your friends and crazy items and whacky stuff going on the maps turned into "Final Destination 1V1 Fox vs Mario". The unintended way to play became so prevalent that it overshadowed and then morphed what the series was, and now even in ultimate the online is setup to be more like a fighting game than the party game it was supposed to be. Im not here to argue over whether it is or isn't a fighting game, but unintended ways to play a game/vew a type of media CAN harm it this is just the most obvious example.
@Melchor Herrera This isn't Nintendo embracing or caring about the competitive smash audience, this is Nintendo begrudgingly accepting that they exist. And smash was huge before melee had a competitive scene. Keep in mind that both brawl and smash for 3DS and Wii U sold way better even though most smash competitive players thought those games were way worse. In fact, smash for 3DS sold better than the wii U version even though it didn't even have a competitive format. People vastly overestimate the amount of sales that competitive smash generates, and underestimate the actual sales potential of the characters in the game. Side note, the thing that made smash competitive was bugs and glitches. If Sakurai could go back in time and patch them, he would as he sees them as the thing that mutated the franchise to a direction he didn't care for. Melee is probably a huge factor in why they act the way they do towards unintended ways to play. Nintendo looks at it as "look at what leaving in glitches did to this franchise"
Ali Wasi really? Because I made that comment in the nicest way possible, I didn’t insult or make fun of anyone, I just said I liked the Nintendo way of playing, I didn’t try to make it seem that the ‘your way’ said in this above comment was worse
I dont work for Nintendo but I do work in software. I agree that sometimes glitches happen and they should be embraced when they make the game better. From a development perspective though its a nightmare, maintaining glitches are a pain. We might fix something else and it fixes another glitches that we did not know was a feature to some users. Or we have to make special exceptions so a bug keeps working, which is hard to maintain. This drives up testing time and dev time which increased cost, and we are off working on another new project so don't have those resources. So often we often go back to the original design document for the project to keep things from ballooning.
Maintaining glitches is hard but creating a feature based on one isn't. For example, TF2's Solider can rocket jump which is based on a glitch, now (and since forever) a feature of TF2. Valve maintained that easily and even made a weapon that did no damage for infinite rocket jumping. So, they knew what the glitch was, they implemented it and then doubled down on it. All based on a glitch. They didn't maintain a glitch, they made it a feature.
My entire view of Nintendo has changed through the dire news of the BLJ being patched a third time and this video. We must preserve all remaining N64s and their games!
@@00O3O1B it's also the reason ROMs are overshadowing some of nintendo's current games and why Nintendo is trying to strike them down, just look at melee as a primary current example. But why kill fan roms when they could just kill their own games so much easier? I mean just look at Pokken, ARMS, and Hyrule Warriors
@@00O3O1B I agree with the open source philosophy. If a company is no longer producing or selling something, they have nothing to lose by making it open-source. Unless you're Nintendo, who are overly possessive like an abusive spouse
The reason the BLJ is patched in 3D All-Stars is because the collection uses the Shindou Edition, which includes various bug fixes, controller vibration and voice clip changes, such as Mario saying "Bye bye!" to Bowser after throwing him instead of "So long, King Bowser!"
Eh as good as a point this video makes, I don't think the removal of the BLJ is a good example of Nintendo's destructive glitch policy in motion. The reason why the BLJ is removed in Mario all stars is because it's running the shindou version of the game which was a 1997 rerelease which supported rumble and had some other small changes. The BLJ wasn't discovered until 2000 and even then it was in a random Spanish magazine, it wouldnt have been widely known until a 2003 forum post so no one could have known about it and no one was doing all the crazy shit we see done with it today. Nintendo wasn't being malicious by patching it out, it was probably them saying "oh shit we forgot to limit negative speed" and fixing it. Remember the line from the Miyazaki interview, if they had known about that glitch during development, they would have patched it. That's not keeping the game the way you want it to be played, it's just a simple bug fix, any big studio would have done that. Now, the reason why the shindou version is the one in 3d all stars is also simple. It was just the most recent version of the game, it supported rumble it made the most sense for that to be the one out on the Wii eshop and later 3d all stars This isn't some defence of Nintendo or their glitch policy I just think it's a commonly misunderstood topic and it's worth knowing all the facts
This honestly should be so simple to figure out for anyone: "can this unintended feature cause harm to a player that performs it by accident?" if so, patch it; otherwise, if it only rewards players that intentionally go for it, you should keep it, period
To be fair, I would also say you should weigh the harm against how likely you are to do it by accident and fan response. If it can accidentally a great deal of harm, but it's exceedingly unlikely to happen by accident (maybe requires a very specific unlikely set of button presses or circumstances) and it has a big positive fan response, it is probably worth it to keep it. If it is someqhat likely to happen by accident, has no significant positive fan response (maybe not useful for speed runs, exploration, or whatever), and does a noteable though perhaps not great deal of harm, it is still maybe a good idea to patch it. Although I mostly play retro games which don't have any patches so I mean I'm fine with mininal patches on well made games 🤷♀️
I mean the examples given are totally capable of doing harm. Be it players running into 3D World levels that are unbeatable without the unintuitive Cat Momentum or people using Glydon to clip into walls... And put Luigi Balloons in (which was already a problem with that mode lol) There is totally a balance that online play makes tricky
I completely agree. At least if the game is single player. Your first priority should be fun. Your second priority should be fun. And your third priority should be, you guessed it Having yammy fish. Meow!
@@colmecolwag > Be it players running into 3D World levels that are unbeatable without the unintuitive Cat Momentum What about uh the other billion smal tricks that are still in the game that are unintuitive? Like half of what the link costume is capable of, or ground pound momentum canceling to jump farther? And why should that even matter in the first place? There are thousands and thousands and thousands of levels out there that have some kind of knowledge requirement that game doesn't teach you that you need to know in order to beat the level. Why is every player suppose to be able to beat every single level in a game with player made levels?
Something that is hard for people to wrap their heads around is that unintended interactions are not necessarily bugs. They may be treated the same as bugs for the purposes of fixing them but that doesn't mean they have to be. But a more nuanced touch is needed for that kind of thing. You can't just rock up to every problem and demolish it with a 5kg maul and expect everything to come out smooth.
This focus on "intended" over "fun" reminds me of how Paper Mario games (and Mario spinoffs in general) aren't allowed to make new characters who relate to character or enemy types from the main series anymore.
Which isn't even true considering Paper Mario: The Origami King has a toad with a unique outfit & name. It's just their excuse for making lazy games to sell to sheep.
I don't understand what the actual fuck happened to Paper Mario. Being thin as paper was literally a quirky stylistic choice, but for some fucking reason I guess some new executive came in and took it literally or something, which is why all the games feel soulless. Of course they feel soulless, they're literally cardboard cutouts.
[Ceave mimicing Nintendo] "Hooray. We've solved an issue that was never an issue to begin with... Another job well done. Next let's fix the icicles" I've never heard Ceave so vengefully salty
Community: "Hey so we found this glitch that actually breaks the game and makes it hard to play properly, can you fix it?" Nintendo: "No." Community: "Hey I found this cool little thing that probably wasn't intended but it makes the game more fun!" Nintendo: "You're not playing the game the right way, so we're removing it. You play OUR games OUR way or you don't play them at all!" BONUS: Community: "Hey here's a fan-made non-profit fan game we made celebrating our love for Nintendo games!" Nintendo: "CEASE AND DESIST HEATHENS!!!" ANOTHER BONUS: Community: “So we just want to play Melee online for an event-“ Nintendo: “YOU WHAT?!”
The third one _kinda_ makes sense due to copyright, trademark, and similar laws being designed extremely poorly, but Nintendo goes much further than they actually need to. xD
@Neocereus i'd say the fact that most nintendo games literally never get discounted below 40$ even ages after they're being relased is a pretty fucking stupid thing they refuse to fix
Fans: "We used harmless, cosmetic glitches to put shooting stars on our trees! That way, people who use the new dream suite will be able to explore even more beautiful islands :)" One (1) salty poketuber: "That's CHEATING" Nintendo: *instant patch*
It’s weird that Nintendo is so adamant about patching each and every glitch out of their games when; 1) The players still find them anyways, and 2) Some of the best games in history have tons of bugs (and sometimes that’s actually the reason why they’re so fun). Like, Nintendo just has this obsession with making their games as glitch-less and visually smooth as possible, instead of like, actually focusing on making the games _better._ Which has always seemed like a weird approach to me. Especially with the recent news on how they can’t make any new, unique characters in the Mario universe, it’s like they’re going for a cookie-cutter formula to make making games easier, at the cost of losing fun and creativity. Which, also, makes no sense to me. I think the main problem is Nintendo’s PR system and how poorly they listen to player feedback. Their PR system is so weird. It’s like they’re totally tone-deaf to their communities, and whenever a problem or glitch arises, they focus on making duct-tape temporary solutions rather than thinking about the long-term effects of anything.
Absolutely agree on the PR team being a bunch of braindead idiots - one only has to look at Dexit and how poorly it was announced and handled. Urgh. They really need to get fired.
Imagine if Capcom was like this. "What's that? You can cancel attack animations in Street Fighter II into other attacks? And people love it? Well, that's not what we intended, so let's patch it out in Champion Edition."
This is a perfect example here. Tying this back to Nintendo: Nintendo almost entirely got rid of any and all comboes in Smash Bros Brawl and the game suffered as a whole from it. They also got rid of wave dashing and dash dancing and then added tripping to punish you for doing it. They hated how people played Melee THAT much. 4 comes out and they entirely changed their tune which helped the game (even though the balloon knockback and slowness hurt it in the end). Dash dancing was back, so were comboes, and strings actually worked correctly for more than 5 characters. Now in ultimate, they made strings even better and fixed the speed. They did remove some infinites but over all, they ACTUALLY responded correctly to what the community wanted. Somehow, they just don't seem to do the same for any other franchise.
@@annihilator247x They screwed up royally with Brawl. Nintendo's reluctance to allow players to play their games in ways they didn't intend them to led them to make bad decisions quite a lot. In Smash Brawl, they chose to add tripping, remove directional air dodges, and make combos nearly impossible presumably to combat some of Melee's more advanced techniques. Die hard fans stuck with Melee because of it's superiority over Brawl competitively, which subsequently caused a splinter group to form within the Smash Bros community. Future games like Smash 4 and, to a lesser extent, Ultimate suffered as a result of this division, one that would have never happened if Nintendo wasn't so reluctant to let the players enjoy their games in the way that the players want to enjoy them. By continuously "fixing" things that don't even need fixing in the first place, Nintendo has continued to hurt their own games. The Mario Maker 2 Cat Suit problem is a drop in the bucket, all things considered, but the recurring problem has shown even long before Nintendo was capable of implementing balance patches. I'm a bit scared to see the features Nintendo patched out of their 3D All Stars Collection.
@@annihilator247x You guys seem to forget that nintendo doesn't develop the smash games. The smash games are developed by HAL (now Sora), a completely independent development studio and company.
As some wise men once said, some games develop themselves, they tell you what game they want to be. Nintendo should try to learn that, and that not every game mechanic should be 100% planned or intended, it often makes a game better than your original idea.
I'm reminded of that story from the remake of OOT for 3ds that was on DYKG; when they were working on OOT the Japanese dev team kinda breathed a sigh of relief and said, "oh good, we finally get to fix all of the bugs and glitches," to which the western team said, "but some of those were my favorite memories of the game, I love those bugs, lets just patch the ones that broke the game." IIRC the japanese team were kinda dumbstruck at the concept, that some people like some glitches. This more comes to a design philosophy, of an eastern vs western mindset. In japan, any kind of mistake, beneficial or not, should be rectified if able, whereas in the west, if it's broken but in a fun or interesting way, we tend to highlight it or figure out why it broke that way so it can be replicated or refined. The former ideology lends itself to a more soloist but "always reaching new heights" type of dev, and the latter leads to a more community driven "if it's stupid and it works, it can't be THAT stupid" kind of dev
This is the perfect response to this video. I feel like Cleave doesnt understand that the Japanese market is totally different from ours. Nintendo is NOT wrong to fix the glitches at all, its something broken after all. Its just that us westerners tend to have fun with broken stuff anyway
@@sagichnichtsowiesonicht7326 iirc that did start because of a bug, ghandi was supposed to be peaceful but they put a wrong symbol somewhere i think? The meme would still exist the first time it happened but if it reached dev ears they'd probably patch it or change it by the next game.
Im pretty sure the reason for this is that they dont want levels that rely on glitches to be completed online, as that would technically make it unfair to the players that are not in the know. And knowing Nintendo, they want their game to be accessible to everyone. This is different from troll levels though, as there's no real way to stop that kind of thing.
I uploaded 2 Uno-Mas levels already. it won't be my level making career though. I just showed a funny animation and a weird interaction with pipes and mush trampolines that stops you from entering downwards pipes
You could say Nintendo does this since the 90s. In Japan, they released the Super Mario 64 - Shindou Edition, which mainly incorporates changes of the international Versions of Super Mario 64 and adds Rumble Support. However, they also fixed the infamous Backwards Long-jump among other glitches, something a regular player would probably not figure out and which is the main component why this game is so prominent in the (Speedrun community) today. But since it released merely 2 years after the original Japanese Release, it is more on the unlikely side that they fixed it because fans discovered the trick.
Another example of a game development team that's really cool about glitch policies is the Titanfall 2 team, I was watching one of Bryanato's GDQ runs and he mentioned how the developers worked with speedrunners and they essentially created a mutually beneficial relationship where speedrunners would find glitches to help with the speedrun, and the devs would patch it out of multiplayer to stop players from gaining unintended advantages but keep it in the singleplayer campaign. One of the devs contributed to the route actually because he knew a part of the game that didn't have collision so they could do an out of bounds glitch, really awesome guys.
Concerned Ape reached out to us for Stardew Valley Speedrunning and asked about certain glitches, and if he could remove or limit them if they were to game breaking or if it would remove the interest in the speedrun.
This is what I love about Celeste. They programmed all these cool tricks into the game intentionally, like hypers and wall bounces, then designed the levels so you could actually use those tricks once you come back to them. Then the community finds an unintended trick, like demodashing, and instead of patching it they keep it in mind for the Celeste DLC and make it easier to pull off.
Great video. I just learned about the cat suit trick a couple of days back and I don't play mario maker. Wow, what a terrible decision on that implementation :-/.
2:24 " At least in, what is objectively, my opinion" Ceave, never change how you talk. This theory works when applied to Mario Kart Wii as well. There are a ton of crazy shortcuts, and while some are game breaking and should be patched, there were others that didn't win you the game for free and generally took a lot of skill to pull. Look at Grumble Volcano in MKW vs MK8(DX). The Grumble Volcano ultra shortcut that allows you to complete the game in under 20 seconds should get patched, but the Rock Hop shortcut in the same track should not be. MK8(DX) patched both. This is one of the main reasons a lot of people prefer MKW over it. In making sure that there were no game breaking shortcuts in MK8(DX), they removed basically all interesting shortcuts as well.
I find that sentence pretty genius, not only is it true, it plays with the timing of the sentence, it subverts the expectations of the listener, and does so with a comedic, and a little bit oxymoronic touch
Yeah but you still get to pick your class and have it’s quirks. They are more like a GM I used to have where if they thought an ability or spell was too strong they would “balance” it.
This is why I love the Ultrakill devs. They approached the game with the mindset of "would this fun? Yes? Add it in" Even an unintended glitch that allows you to jump into the air higher than anything else, and run at mach 10 using the same glitch, making multiple platforming sections insanely easy, was kept in because it's cool and fun. Same thing with multiple wall clips. They did remove a couple, but you can get out of bounds in quite a few places in the game, and some have silly Easter eggs. I've never been a huge Nintendo person outside the smash series tbh, but dang this is sad... great video!
I'm just imagining that I'm watching the power-up ranking video, and you spend 18 minutes on the Cat Suit and just progress naturally to the Goomba Mask as if half the video wasn't spent on it.
An interesting related case can be found with Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and the 3DS version of it (Or maybe it was Majora's Mask), certain well known bugs and glitches were going to be patched out during the remake process, but someone encouraged them not to because they had become such a huge part of the community and spirit of the game, that removing them would worsen the experience, the way it had been explained was "Hey, back on the 64 version if you did this, this really cool thing happened" "No way, lets see if it's still in!" And then they try it, and its still works!
Oot 3D had that mindset and it was a pretty faithful remake of oot 64, Majora's mask on the other hand falls into the mindset talked about in this video, just look at deku links spin jump momentum in the 64 version vs 3d
I honestly hate how Nintendo doubles down on this stuff. I honestly think it's cuase they're still butt hurt cuase they don't understand fair use. It's like they refuse the admit all of there legal actions against fair use are wrong. The most fucked up thing about this is that we as a community aren't doing shit about it. When Sony slapped a lawsuit on one guy for literally showing people how to steal games with there console's, Anonymous hackers DDoS the hell out of them for a month. Where the hell is that justice now? Nintendo takes legal action on kids singing the pokemon theme song, modders operating on separate hardware for no monetary gain, people remixing there music, people adding music clips in the background of there videos, let's player's on UA-cam, and people simply using there hardware to communicate. Yet Anonymous does absolutely nothing. We still buy there stuff, we still worship them, we still act like no one does things better. There's no justice. Nintendo literally takes DLC away from people who aren't using the WiiU anymore and we smile like it's ok, Nintendo ports last gen games for literally the same price if not more, we smile like it's ok, Nintendo limits there supply causing false demand and inflated price gouging, we smile like it's ok, Nintendo literally forces us to play there games exsactly the way they want becuase they're still butthurt about the game genie decades later, and we smile like that's ok... but it's not. They're oppressive. Yet we do nothing. Where's the hackers now? Where is there justice now? Why does Nintendo get special treatment? I get it, you guys grew up with Nintendo, so did I. I had every single game console Nintendo has made since the 80's... but I see how they're acting. They aren't doing the right thing and coming out the winner anymore. There doing whatever it takes to win now... that's not what they used to be about. There conniving antics and strict "don't do that" attitude is just downright wrong. It shouldn't matter if you grew up with them or not. Soon people will see this kind of behavior as alright, soon it will be impossible to get any console cuase every console developer will do what Nintendo does to limit there stock and drive up prices, soon we won't be able to see any video game walkthrew, rants, or lets plays becuase everyone will side with Nintendo and see them as infringements on there products, soon we won't be able to even get sound files of our favorite game music cuase Nintendo will find those sites and shut them down we won't be able to remix them either, soon we won't be able to speedrun our games the best way possible becuase it showcases "flaws" in the game which creates a "negative" image on said product... will you be smiling then? Will you turn a blind eye then? Will we even be allowed to play video games at that point? Will video games even BE video games? If we keep letting Nintendo get away with this stuff... I don't think the future will have video games. IDK what they will be... but I sure as hell won't be playing with them.
and thats not to mention that it doesnt stop at glitches, when the official nintendo treehouse crew (i think it was them) wanted to do a nuzlocke playthrough of a new pokemon game, their managers shut them down telling them "no glitches", even when it was explained that it wasnt a glitch, just a different way to play the game, they were told not to inquire about it further and that they could not do it
@Michael Persico yea but it removes an option instead of adding another way to do it Plus the people who have that muscle memory likely spent hours if not days learning it if they were serious about it and all that time effectively goes down the drain if you just remove it
Love how in the original mario game wall jumping wasnt supposed to be a thing, but he kept it in because of it being usefull or something, now its a feature of most mario games
2:52 "Nintendo seems to really like this idea of designing powerups with as little button presses as possible" Nintendo loves half A presses confirmed?
actually, i heard something about nintendo leaving the minus world glitch in one of the remakes, because they considered it an important aspect of the games history or something along those lines. now they remove "glitches" that make you play a level faster...
im almost 100% sure nintendo hates the speedrunning community, honestly i have no idea why they have ninji speedruns when they so actively shoot down speedrunning tactics
@@Spicii9896 yeah, especially since speedruns are some of the biggest aspects of mario games. nintendo also used to support speedruns by putting in all the shortcuts in 2d mario games, but it feels like nintendo doesn't want the speedruns to be creative, but more of a scripted path, which just ruins all the fun of it. and in video games, there really comes a point where glitches become features. personally, i see things like the bullet time bounce in botw and the backwards longjump in sm64 as features that came from glitches, they're just a standart nowadays.
The funniest thing about that is that the reason why hackers have been able to run rampant is because Nintendo doesn't want to put in the time and effort to fix something like this, because it doesn't really have an impact on gameplay (eyeroll) and it's not easily accessible. Nintendo cares far more about making sure players play the way Nintendo wants than having players play the way they enjoy.
Imagine if Matt Makes Games decided to patch out all of the really amazing and challenging speed tech in Celeste like cboosts and demodashes, which are the few techs that weren't intended, but still exist and are used in amazing ways.
I would say that preservation of unintended mechanics is a primary reason I still enjoy Celeste, years after first playing it. Glitches are still being found and shared regularly, adapting the toolset for movement and keeping me learning and exploring well beyond the game's intended content. Some truly amazing spectacles have been achieved with what we have found; for a good example lookup the current Farewell TAS, which exploits a variety of glitches that in many other climates would have been removed.
Lucious Mere technical honesty isn't admirable. Just look at the way other companies have promoted their shit as of late. Though in Nintendo's case they're sort of doing it right because it's either ruin the super-hardcores' fun or use questionable anti-cheat measures that would piss off EVERYONE. *coughDenuvo* Not to say that they couldn't and shouldn't let the freaks have their brand of cake as well.
I remember seeing a video where the devs of Bugsnacks reacted to a speedrun of the game. A number of the glitches and out of bounds things the speed runner actually used turned out to be things the devs were aware were possible, but their mentality was as long as they made sure no one was going to stumble onto it by accident playing normally they might as well leave it for speedrunners or glitchers to play with. I think thats a better approach.
Defently what I'd do if I was making a game , if it isn't game breaking then it isn't a issue.
Combine that with turning glitches that a of people experienced on accident into a feature (if possible)
@@mihael64 this is what I love about nadeo and the trackmania games. When the devs released trackmania 2020, they intentionally added the most popular glitches from previous games, such as bugsliding, into the game as features!
@@too_blatant That's preety cool!
@@too_blatant Another example, the Civilization series added Nuke Gandhi as a feature in all games after the first
Nintendo: even in their name everything outside 'intend' is 'no'
Not enough respect for this brilliant word play.
That's one of the best wordplays I've ever heard
holy shit that makes so much sense...
@@KittSpiken I mean it's literally the top comment. I think it's getting plenty of respect.
@@ThePCguy17 NOT. ENOUGH.
i've had a joke for years now that Nintendo's hidden slogan is "Stop Having Fun Wrong." and this makes sense to me
"No! This isn't how you're supposed to play the game!"
Meanwhile in Breath of the Wild...
@@samt3412 *casually pushes nine boulders with one boomerang
Play the Nintended™ way!
You might be familiar with the phrase "Badwrongfun"
The thing that kills me about them trying to prevent this """"""glitch"""""" is the fact that the Cat Momentum Cancel actually makes more sense than anything else. Sure, cats scratch and take massive leaps (before inevitably finding out about gravity), but cats are also very fast and agile, so having a cat go mach 5 through the air to beat the level in roughly 30 seconds less than usual is what personally makes it unique to the others.
*wasnt intended
the fasted land animal is literally a wild cat
@@RealPersonGuyDude it’s a cheater
@@alex.g7317 you know, it probably does use speed hacks
@@RealPersonGuyDude ba dum tss
Fun fact: with the Nintendo Selects line of re-releases, Nintendo actually patched glitches the community found after the original release. So Nintendo has been doing this for far longer than the Switch days.
This goes all the way back to Player's Choice too. The Player's Choice version of Metroid Prime patches the glitch that lets you get the Space Jump Boots before anything else.
Hell, even back to the N64. In japan they patched BLJs in Mario 64, thats why the Switch version doesn't have the glitch because they based it on the "fixed" version.
Wait wait what? Holy shit I had no idea this was a thing wtf
I hate when companies patch glitches people like
They even patched the Nut Jump in smo
@@lailoutherand No they didn't
i should've said this on the first video where you claimed that you need to factory reset your switch to play a physical game on 1.0.
you don't.
if you *archive* the game instead of deleting it, your switch will tell you that some necessary data was not found and that it will be installed now, however, unlike if you delete the game, there will be an option to start the software without installing this "necessary data" (which is just the updates)
Does this also work with digital games?
He hearted! Hoo-ray!
@@8BitGabe ofc not
@@d4n93r then you do need the physical 1.0, don't you?
what i like about this comment is how much it puts what ceave said into perspective
the nintendo community (speedrunners especially) has gotten so used to having to bypass in nintendos stupid glitch policy that they eductate themself on how to hack a modern console. All for what, a glydon clipping glitch?
anyway thanks for the info ill get out my switch, electrical tape, and bent paper clips
"If the game doesn't break, it's more of a feature than an error" (Shigeru Miyamoto)
Oh, the irony...
His definition of break is very broad.
And to think: We've come from glitches being officialised in sequels (wall jumping) to *this* .
Yes, but in case of Mario Maker this would break the game. It would break all Cat suit stages for map makers. I honestly really do not see Ceave's point in this video, I understand that getting used to new controls can be problematic, especially when playing more casually - but if the point of the game is to let creators, like Ceave might I add, to make the stages they want, you don't want to have a "feature" to force the creators not to use a certain power up unless their stage is specifically designed around one unintended "feature" the power up CAN use
@@MrOmegatronic Wasn't Wall Jumping in SMB1 a feature with strange implementation?
@Michael Persico That was what I was mentioning.
Feature with strange implementation.
It was a feature since day one.
as a wise man once said, "if you find a glitch that is more fun than any other point in your game, rebuild your entire game based around that glitch." it's how they kept in combos starting from street fighter 2, it was originally never an intended mechanic, but since the QA testers found it very fun, they embraced it and continued to implement it in their future SF games. this "glitch" was revolutionary in the FG genre entirely.
Same with the game Ultrakill. Punching your own projectiles into explosive shrapnel was a glitch, but it worked so well, and looked so awesome, that they made it into a feature.
Same could technically be said for the BUD glitch in Minecraft. While the BUD glitch is still in the game, Mojang decided to make an entire block dedicated to detecting block updates.
Rocket jumping in the original Quake was also a glitch. If it was patched, we wouldn't have modern movement shooters.
Like how Terraria kept Hoiks in after people figured out how to use them to clip through walls.
And difficulty curves is another example.
Cat dive cancelling is like wavedashing in melee, it wasn’t intended and it’s less of a glitch and more of abusing the physics engine but it creates cool situations
Heck, at least Sakurai noticed it in Melee and intentionally left it there (which strengthened the game's identity) and only removed it from Brawl because he felt like it create too much dissonance between skill levels. And even then he brought back a nerfed version in Ultimate.
I think the cat momentum glitch stacks right, like infinite speed? So it'd make it possible to make levels that could only be completed by doing it which might be Nintendo's fear.
Edit: ah it just conserves momentum. So you're just allowed to move faster than top speed for a little bit longer because you keep the speed of the dive.
This would be bad for ninji speedruns as Nintendo are not big fans of making hard unintuitive maneuvers normal.
cat dive cancelling would be horrible in online
@WILD CRACKS a glitch is code that doesn't work properly. An exploit is abusing a glitch, or code that works properly to get an unintended result. Stuff like this is a non-glitch exploit because the code works properly, it just creates a situation that the developers didn't think it would through it's interactions with other part of the game.
@@AntherMoo anther?
Nintendo: Mario Maker is a game about being creative
Everyone: Does something creative
Nintendo: You weren't supposed to do that!
ha ha meme go brrrrrrr
@Live united Die united well then..... i guess i got r/wooooshed cause i (unfortunately) didnt get the joke
Dhmis in a nutshell.
Live united Die united I don’t get the joke
I was tempted to actually buy a switch and get mario maker, but this weird and unintiutive design shit has turned me off from putting forth the effort to get it.
I remember seeing an episode of "devs react to speedruns", where the developers of Control (I think it was) said that during the development they asked if a bug would be useful for speedrunners, and if it was breaking for casual players. They left in many "bugs" because the wanted speedrunners to have fun.
I saw a Half-Life 2 speedrun and Valve was watching and they were just mad that so many huge bugs were still in it after hours of trying to fix it.
@@PIKL_Creep
I remember that, and one dev said "We should fix that skip just before the next Games Done Quick, they will be so mad."
Kek.
absolute chads
The appropriate response...
PIKL Creep They're cool with certain minor exploits. Not so with major ones that trivialize half the game.
This reminds me of shitty “art projects” in elementary school that allowed for absolutely zero creativity and were graded for how well you followed directions. It wasn’t art or fun anymore.
Remember, art is objective.
Makes me remember when we the assignment was something like "Draw a room, using the skills you've learnt in this class so far." After some deliberating I came up with my idea: Bubble of distorted space-time in an amusement part. I interpreted the bubble as the room. The skills I would use are how I've learned to draw stickmen looking normal, stuff about perspective the teacher didn't "tech" & some other basic stuff.
When I got it back I got a 0 in some "Following the assignment rules" metric, as well as creativity for some reason. (you shouldn't even grade that) I remember crying, being super confused about what the hell I did wrong & didn't even challenge her view. I just kinda broke down.
Looking back she wanted me to draw a 3d rectangle, which we "learned" about in the previous days, not a sphere.
My 9th grade "art" class was literally just copying images, shading and all. There was absolutely nothing creative, and the one or maybe two times we weren't copying, we had extremely strict rules to follow.
The school system is broken you just have to follow a boring assignment instead of being creative
@@roxxane019 this is why people say school sucks
Instead of slowing Mario down after canceling why couldn't they have capped his momentum for that circumstance
Cause they seem to not care about efficiency and long term effects, but rather they just care about "making something work".
That's the kind of mentality I hate, tbh.
The good minds think not only in "How to make it work" but also in "How to make it work WELL".
@@chavezraul6879 99% of the game works well. one powerup doesnt change that fact.
@@johnmarkson1990 99%? Obviously not. Stacked pipes are gone & there's no excuse that can't be countered by hidden blocks, enemies in blocks, off screen thwomps, sideways thwomps, parachute thwomps, hammer bros., bloopers, warp blocks, locked warp blocks, or horrible hit detection on every hazard/enemy.
Most of the game's content is either unavailable in 3DW or exclusive to 3DW. Simple concepts are tied to night time for no reason. Using Yoshi in no-landing levels is impossible for no reason. Using boots/cars in them is almost impossible too.
Checkpoints are unavailable in clear condition levels even though the only possible reason for that rule only applies to certain clear conditions & it doesn't really make sense then either because the checkpoints could disappear when you fail just like the goal does.
Crossing pits without jumping is allowed in no-landing levels in some situations always & in other situations never or only sometimes but there's no logic behind the exceptions. Bouncing on enemies & bumpers doesn't count as landing but bouncing on springs & note blocks does. Clear conditions for carrying things aren't in SMB1 even though the SMB2 mushroom & master sword let you carry things.
They removed the ability to put things at the beginning of a level (including background objects) so there'd be room for 4 players even though they could've just given us the option to set how many players our levels allow like LittleBigPlanet 1 was already doing in 2008 or let us label our levels as single player or co-op like N+ was already doing in 2008.
Getting score from touching the goal yet still dying from time out is common. Killing an enemy by landing on it yet still dying isn't even super rare. You can stop beside a muncher but then die while you're walking away from it.
If you land on a dead, upward-facing creeper, you fall through it & get killed by nothing 100% of the time. Been that way since launch & Nintendo has no interest in fixing it. Bosses multiple screens away spam RNG fire constantly, everyone has always hated it since MM1 launched, & it still hasn't been changed or turned into an option you can toggle.
Look how much more broken no-landing levels are than I already mentioned: ua-cam.com/video/WA74_lSbdlk/v-deo.html
I actually like the tricks shown in that video even though they don't make sense because they're fun if you know 'em but that brings me to my next example: There are no text blocks even though old Mario games have 'em so levels with complex meta concepts have to go far out of their way to teach players the concepts instead of being able to just tell the player how it works.
Sure, learning organically is often more fun than reading a text block but kaizo levels & glitch levels would often be a lot more fun if their concepts were explained in text & then the glitches & tricks Nintendo worries so disproportionately about wouldn't be such a problem.
@Greko just set a different limit unrelated to walking ':/
@@D_YellowMadness the collision detection thing exists because it is generally a more pleasant gameplay experience to (for example) barely slip past the jaws of a piranha plant than to have the game kill mario because his foot brushed by its outermost tooth. this principle (subtly skewing the game in the player's favor to make it more satisfying to play) has been a thing in mario games and video games in general for literally decades, and takes many forms such as increasing/decreasing the area of an object's collision detection (for some mario examples, look up the hitboxes of piranha plants in the original super mario bros, or how far away you can pick up a coin in sm64), giving the player slightly more health than the hud shows, or making computer-controlled enemies in fps always miss their first shot to let the player know they are there. cannon hitboxes are like they are to simplify the calculations done with them (it is slightly faster to have the cannon's sprite refer to the same hitbox in all its orientations than to individually check each cannon's orientation to see what its hitbox is). the piranha creeper thing is probably (though I do not know for sure) because you land on the base on the stem (vine? thorny green neck?).
they might have had trouble implementing stacked pipes with different colored pipes, most likely in the 3-dimensional 3dw style, and decided they would rather have colored pipes than stacked pipes. not every cut feature is cut because of balancing reasons.
On a happy note, in Animal Crossing New Horizons they patched out a harmless glitch that let you film in the camera app without interface. Everyone was super pissed, but in the next update they made it a feature! As in there’s a button to turn off the interface now! I was more excited about that then anything else in that update honestly.
The animal crossing PR team suck ass. they should fire the whole team and hire some english devs that will implement all the quality of life features that fans have demanded for 20 years. we shouldnt settle for medicority (adding one camera feature)
@@johnmarkson1990 Yeah, like where's the durability indicators (meter or visibly cracked tools like the axe in previous games), (new) ability to adjust music volume, and crafting more than one item at a time? (Also, the ability to use the tilted camera used when reading mail would be cool too.)
Repetitive dialogue is my biggest issue, it's like they used a text file for all the interactions!
@@ghoulbuster1 I zip by repetitive dialogue by pressing b
If I have to hear blathers talk about fossils one. more. time
Remember that time Miyamoto was asked about the Minus World, and said
"That’s a bug, yes, but it’s not like it crashes the game, so it’s really kind of a feature, too!"
What happened, Shiggy? What changed?
Sad face
Given his crusade to ruin Paper Mario, I believe he's just getting old. (Origami King is pretty good IN SPITE of Shiggy's limitations, not because of them).
He's gotten old, and grumpy.
More importantly than that however, Nintendo has never really cared much for their games being used competitively. And the catsuit wave-dash technique was a big part of 3d world speed-running. Perhaps it's meant to dissuade an certain audience from associating themselves as Nintendo Fans.
But then again, Miyamoto himself is a bit of a salty codger when it comes to modern Mario, since he always envisioned Mario as a more mature character, and feels that Nintendo made the character's image too family-friendly.
Why did I read that as Shaggy?
Schiggy is the german name for Squirtle so I was confused for a bit
IMO the best comparison is Minecraft. In minecraft there has been a long ongoing glitch that allowed for bud-switches which became part of many contraptions. Mojang was aware of that glitch and knew how to fix it, but kept it in for a long time because they didn't want to destroy their players contraptions. And when they decided to fix that glitch (that also caused other effects that weren't benefitial for playing the game) they also implemented a new block that can be used to implement budswitches, so players could still use the feature in a similar way. What Nintedo did with the icicles is the exact opposit. I could tell that having too much global ground could lead to problems, but just removing that property from an item without warning and with no replacement means they are technically telling the players, they should damn fucking play the game the way they intent it and they will remove anything being done differently just to make sure we know who's in charge.
Yeah, Nintendo is just like "NO! I AM NOT LETTING YOU DO THAT!" to things that aren't even big glitches. It's like they REALLY don't like Glitches like they hate Glitches more than a typical company.
Of course, on the flip side with Minecraft, they're still infuriatingly keeping the modding community wholly divorced from the maingame. I wish they'd just collaborate with the forge team directly already, I'm so tired of every mod breaking with every teeny tiny update and every major version being a potential island for modmakers to just get bloody stranded on.
Also they kept boats being super fast on ice
I honestly think that quasi-connectivity should be removed. It is unintuitive, confusing for 99% of players, and breaks certain contraptions. But the redstone community is so attached to it that it will probably stay in the game forever
@@0bread286 without quasi connectivity, tons of amazing contraptions become impossible.
One of the only times ive seen Nintendo actually hear the fans and make a bug a feature, is the camera glitch on Animal Crossing.
People had the idea to create movies/animations on the game, using a glitch that removes the camera hud, wich didn't hurt anyone, but actually made ir more enjoyable.
In the next update, the bug was patched, wich made a lot of people mad/dissapointed.
But then, the devs actually realized, that it added more to the game and it's charm, so they made it an actual feature.
Kinda weird, a part of Nintendo is just a grumpy old man who doesn't accept change, while the other helps and listens to the comunity, improving a game.
Wall jumping was also a former glitch turned onto a feature.
And that long mushroom powerup in Mario Maker 1 that turned Mario into an absurdly taller Mario also used to be glitch iirc.
That's because the AC dev team in Nintendo is great
I think Animal Crossing is an odd example considering there are so many quality of life features players have been asking for so long and yet haven't been implemented yet. It's like they'll only choose to listen to very particular and specific opinions of their fanbase. I honestly don't know what are their priorities.
A corporation of people with different opinions can really altogether make chaotic decisions with no rhyme or reason when outputted as a singularity.
*Ceave:* Here's what I believe- no, here's what definitely happened-
*Music intensity skyrockets*
LOL
ua-cam.com/video/4LFgUHckCgg/v-deo.html
@@D_YellowMadness What's that video about?
Wall jumps in mario originated as an unintended glitch. That’s one of the most iconic things in all of mario but if people found it now, nintendo would axe it
SRSLY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Okay okay okay...goodbye.
@@Chad_Eldridge it was a glitch in the original, 2d, games
@@Chad_Eldridge It's tediously difficult to have it in SMW, doing it in SMB takes practice but it's definitely doable.
@@Chad_Eldridge it's used in the last level of super mario bros speedrun to enter a pipe faster xd
I know for a fact it was both in the original smb and smb3, but I’m not sure about world
For the cat suit specifically, I don't get why they didn't just give mario a speed cap, unless in certain situations where mario is suposed to go above normal speed.
Because that can have other consequences in the physics engine.
Believe me, just adding caps can screw up worse.
Valve tried that for bhopping in source games, and people just found workarounds while the fix only ended up neutering a very cool technique
At least the icicle thing has one possible reason I can think of: lag. Something that's likely very important to them is having a cap on the resources that can be loaded at once and testing that cap against the hardware they support with some leeway for dust buildup etc. to ensure smooth gameplay. Having potentially lots and lots of extra objects hanging around messes with that. That said, I'd prefer having it in and blaming the level creator for lag when they do excessively dumb things. (And yes, there are other ways to lag the game from spawning in extra objects. That doesn't mean that suddenly anything goes.)
But yeah, that kind of management of how many objects are loaded max is pretty important to game devs in general, but this is a game where people create their own levels, so it takes some more work to manage that in the first place.
Good thing they made their hardware very well. 👏 definetly loving the drift and the fan that is about to blow up by the sound of it as well as the minimum storage.
@@FailerGamer nintedo makes good games but the management there is just full of shit they have no clue what they're doing and seem to not care about the quality of their products so yea I agree
I mean, not that I think Mario Maker objects are particularly memory intensive, but if you have a mechanism in place for unloading objects dynamically, and a cap on the number of objects that never unload, there are worse potential issues than just lag if you exceed that limit.
When you start messing with the assumptions about memory space, I'd think the worst case would be arbitrary code execution leading to bricked or security-compromised consoles. Is that realistic? I don't know. But if it's possible, it does seem worth Nintendo's effort to prevent someone uploading a malicious level rather than rely on catching it later.
@@FailerGamer yeah me too. Also that they wanna make less lag: the best way for that is p2p
Don't objects just stop losing after 100 of a type are loaded globally
Nintendo be like: erasing one glitch and getting 2 back
Facts
The hydra glitch
So true :')
What U mean. Nintendo is really good at patching glitches.
Fallout 76 flashbacks
“341 little bugs in the code,
Take one down, patch it around,
354 little bugs in the code,”
As a programmer, I can confirm this little ditty is accurate as hell.
hahhaahahahahahahahahah
*patch it around
patch it around*
Back when I was trying to code it was more like 341 bugs in the code,
Take one down, patch it around,
It's broken now and nothing works, also it can't be undone and everything is on fire.
This is just a Japanese thing. Take a look at this interview from the developer of Splatoon when asked why you can’t pick what maps you play on online.
“It’s not just language. It’s a way to perceive games, and the user. I see it on Splatoon right now. You look at Splatoon, and then people look at Overwatch. These are two totally different games. Overwatch is a self-service game. You boot the game and say, “Hey, I like this mode. I like this character. And I’m only ever going to play this mode, this character, and this map.” You’re like, “I’m going to get what I want.”
But in Japan, everything is tailored. You’ve probably heard Sheena Iyengar’s TED talk, in which she went to a restaurant in Japan and tried to order sugar in her green tea. The people at the cafe said, “One does not put sugar in green tea,” and then, “We don’t have sugar.” But when she ordered coffee instead, it did come with sugar! In Japan, there’s a sense of, “We’re making this thing for you, and this is how we think this thing is better enjoyed.” This is why, in Splatoon, the maps rotate every couple of hours. And the modes change. “I bought this game. Why can’t I just enjoy this game the way I want?” That’s not how we think here. Yes, you did buy the game. But we made this game. And we’re pretty confident about how this game should be enjoyed. If you stick with us, and if you get past your initial resistance, you’re going to have the time of your life with this game. You’re really going to love it.”
archive.is/RkHpw#selection-3099.0-3317.432
The Splatoon development team is the same as the one for Animal Crossing, another game that despite having many great things going for it, has infamously bad quality of life improvements. Essentially, it’s a cultural thing. Nintendo wants you to experience the game the way they intended because they believe they know the best way to enjoy a game since they’re the ones who made it. They think that by playing the game the intended way, even if you don’t like it at first, you will eventually start to appreciate it. Obviously this is VERY debatable, but those are the facts.
And imo it directly lead into both those games dying early and tragically. Similar to pokken tournament, Pokken DX and ARMS, it isn't only a lack of developer support that kills the game, but also fundamental design flaws and poor UI and PR decisions during the development process.
What a dick move, this is literally a terrible way to do things. Parents who control their kid's lives are abusive, so why should game developers hope for that?
How incredibly selfish. To purposely lose sales and consumer happiness for a single petty change
A slight correction: this is a Japanese "service industry" thing. Not every Japanese game developer treats game design like a service and not every Japanese game developer has this attitude. From Software, for example, treats game design like they are crafting a toy or a sculpture. Once the design is set, they are done with fiddling with the project. If there are problems with producing the game experience like game breaking bugs, they will fix that, but once the game is out the game is pretty much set.
The problem isn't that Nintendo is Japanese, the problem is that Nintendo treats video game development like it is a Japanese service industry. It doesn't have to be this way.
A reason more for me to dislike japanese culture.
OMG IS THIS COMMENT LONG HOW IS THIS COMMENT SO LONG THIS MUST HAVE TOOK SO LOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG AM SERIOUS
if icycles where still global ground maybe we could have something like this:
an iggy standing on icycles shooting magic fire offscreen
LEMM-E SHOOTIN AND TOOTIN DEM RUBBAH BALLS THE WHOLE TIME BOIIII
I am deeply concerned for humanity
can't we do this with another global ground?
perhaps
Fuck it we don't need global ground. Thanks for changing my opinion with one simple comment
"If it's not fun, why bother?"
- Reggie Fils-Aimé
One of my favourite quotes of his bit admitably very ironic
Eatinggamer 39 if only he was still here and working with Nintendo
GalaxyKitten 09 did he pass away?
JB Bajan Gamer No, he just retired.
"If it's fun, remove it"
-Absolutely Everybody that works for Nintendo
2:25 I love how he has a little laugh to himself after saying this amazing sentence
"In what is objectively, my opinion"
I mean, it IS objectively his opinion.
@@zandromex8985 technically nothing can proove he isnt lying, so its not objectively his opinion.
When I clicked the blue 2:25 button a random subway ad played
This whole thing reminds me of the Isabelle Assist trophy glitch in Smash Ultimate. The circumstances for activating are so specific that the odds for getting it on accident are astronomical. Plus, it relies on items, which are nearly always in casual games, at least 2 Isabelle's (one of the least played characters in Ultimate) and a pretty specific timing again making it hard to get on accident. The results were hilarious and i could see people playing a gamemode where everyone is Isabelle and the only thing you can do is the assist trophy glitch, now go.
It's such a shame that it got patched cause it was so entertaining and didn't take away from anything else the game had
I wish I could use it now even in training mode
@@0008loser So as a developer, what do you do? Do you remove the glitch entirely? Or do you adjust how assist trophies work so that, after a certain number, they start deleting the oldest ones in order to stop the system from crashing? We know what Nintendo chose, but personally I think improving the stability of the glitch is the better way to go about it. I'm still bitter about it even now, and I'm sure many people are at least disappointed about it still. It's a great way to alienate your fanbase, especially when done repeatedly as Nintendo has done.
I've seen a similar game design choice in portal. In the Directors commentary, it says that there was some very creative skips found in some later test chambers. The plasterers showed them to the team. Guess what they did? Absolutely nothing. They where being innovative and creative with the portals, and it just added another layer of depth to the game. I feel this is a very smart choice for any game designer.
I really know of only 2 in the game. Chamber 14 with the floor portals and chamber 18 with the camera blocking the door. the section skipped in chamber 18 was always the thing stopping me from going all game without sv_cheats. since I didn't know about the fling because I overlooked it because the area is in an area that kills you if you go straight for it, and so I attempted to stack cameras to get the height and failed.
@@mikeysheep5380 there are some skips, especially in the more open old aperture section, where you can just shoot a portal across the map trough a hole in a wall somewhere to skip half of the level.
Old aperture is generally the area of skips. While in the new aperture it's mostly shooting a portal while standing inside the portal the old aperture has a tone of skips which make you walk on top of the map and around it using the gels to get out of the level area.
@@PineappleDealer37 You are talking portal 2. I was talking Portal 1.
It’s a weird culture thing at the end of the day, Nintendo looks at a glitch in their game like a failure on their part and consider it tarnishing to their entire reputation. Of course I think what they do is completely ridiculous as well, but I also see where they’re coming from since their spotless image is so important to them. Just typical, out of touch company shit I suppose.
I think it’s something to do with Japanese culture as well. People in Japan tend to be very perfectionist, and companies tend to adopt an ‘our way’ mentality, meaning that they make the product, and if you don’t like it you don’t buy it. I think Nintendo’s approach to bugs/exploits is a consequence of these cultures.
Oh yeah for sure, that’s kind of what I was getting at as well. You see it with all sorts of major Japanese companies, with exceptions being few and far between.
But at the end, games aren't movies. You play as you like. If you want a game that plays like you want it to, just write a book.
Lol, you say they're out of touch when it's a cultural thing where they see things like bugs as failures on their part.
AzureRoxe well, that's exactly why they're out of touch, because even many japanese players agree that the patching is unnecessary or frustrating.
The Mario Maker community also proves why Nintendo's approach is so pointless, because they keep patching glitches and the community not only rediscovers the same glitch, they find it and many more each patch. I really think you need a more pragmatic approach to glitches, where the first consideration is whether it can crash the game - if it does a fix is in order almost no matter what, even if it is a speedrun glitch in circumstances. The second question is whether it interferes with normal gameplay, is it something that can mess with someone who just plays the game normally, again if yes i think a fix is in order. However if both answers are no, i don't think they should be fixed.
Yeah 🤷🏾♀️
reminds me of when Mojang patched out the afk fishing farms in 1.16, but the community found it again before 1.16 even got fully released. Except, when Mojang patches something, they actually listen to their community.
no one can defeat the spaghetti code monster
Yeah i hate that they make many real fun glitches away
I would say the second one is a bit off, the point is not whether a glitch interferes with normal gameplay, but if it does so in a detrimental way, for example, I can totally see someone realizing cat suit momentum and employing it on normal gameplay, but this doesn't worsen the experience for the person, and in fact, it improves it
I was talking about this with a friend of mine who used to play Tekken at a tournament level, and he made an interesting comparison
Katsuhiro Harada's overall design philosophy with Tekken (and with the Soul Calibur games he had a hand in) is basically on the opposite end of the spectrum:
Where Nintendo generally tries to purge any unintended esoterica that actually sees use, even if doing so harms the overall game feel, Harada tries to *preserve* anything in his games that people actually use, no matter how esoteric, even if it's to the detriment of the game as a whole.
And the interesting thing is that in both cases, the downsides of those philosophies are only really noticeable if you're in too deep. Nintendo removes stuff that most casual players will never encounter unless they actively go looking for it. every Tekken game from 5 onward has just been tacking new mechanics onto Tekken 3, but that only matters in mid and high-level play.
Imagine they """""""fix""""""" the dive in 3d world deluxe(if it ever comes out)
tj """"""henry"""""" yoshi
""" """ """ """
""" """ """ """
""" """ """ """
"""""""""""" """"""""""""""" """""""""""""
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
i doubt that because nintendo actually acknowledged that technice in the super cat mario show
Oh god no
Nintendo has a "curated" attitude. Just look at their justification for why there's no stage select in Splatoon, it boils down to "we know what you want, you don't." They're very much in a "my way or the highway" mindset.
That design philosophy is very irritating and it reminds me a lot of Apple products.
And there is one of the reasons that Nintendo deserves none of my money
Also no Cloudsaves for Splatoon or Pokemon
We are the consumers. Shouldn't we control it?
@@internetdinosaur8810 We can if we spread propaganda. If we want people to stop buying nintendo/apple products we must spread lies. Thats how the vegan community grew. they lied about meat causing cancer.
"It cost them money to make their game worse"
Honestly... Nintendo in a nutshell right there
*wet nutshell
Sitting there not flying
333th Like, Gimme 333 Dollars
Metroid other M.......anyone?
Sounds like Pokemon Sword and Shield to me
I will never forget Shigeru Miyamoto saying he wants Nintendo to be like Disney and they really go out of their way to emulate their bullheaded nonsense. This is merely one of many examples of that. Nintendo makes great games but they operate best when they're slapped with some humility. It's no wonder why the Wii U days were more accommodating than the Switch will probably ever be.
So, in short: Nintendo doesn't believe in Ascended Glitches.
Quite the contrast to Valve. The Soldier class in Team Fortress 2 is designed around an Ascended Glitch, namely rocket jumping.
Iirc the Spy originated from a glitch found during testing too, didn't it?
Dinoman972 yeah, you could change your model to the other team, it inspired valve to make a stealth class
i mean so was wall jumping but we dont talk about that here
@@Dinoman972 Yeah, way back when Team Fortress was a mod for Quake.
@@greeny111 Really? What kind of physics system would give rise to wall jumping? Checking for being near a solid surface, rather than a solid surface below you?
I think they really need to take a step back on the Glitches and how to address them.
Many are harmless and allow for interesting gameplay.
Some are harmful, often because they'll crash or freeze the game or bog it down to 1fps, etc. THOSE should be fixed.
But the harmless ones, as long as they aren't intrusive, I don't see the issue here.
*"...as long as they aren't intrusive,..."*
This is the issue. What somebody considers intrusive is what somebody else doesn't. What should they do then? Hold surveys prior to creating each patch?.
@CoolDoominator What do you mean? That casuals and kids should be quite literally thrown to the side for the sake of people like you? Okay.
@CoolDoominator Then what do you meant with your comment?.
@CoolDoominator Oopps, sorry. Notice my mistake. Too many comment chains confused me.
@CoolDoominator *"honestly anything is better than nothing"*
(Sorry, sent without replying) I don't think they have enough to to hold a survey for each and every glitch they would remove. They have new games to make you know?.
A timeless channel
Each video sounds as it was created the same way: lots of love, with a dash of fuzzy
lol wadof
Well, except his first video lmbo
and they are surprisinly simple to make
@@MynamesMe- wasn't too long ago, maybe a month at most
What do you mean "dash of fuzzy"? Fuzzies are full of love
i feel the most memorable events in games is finding a unintended glitch for yourself, let it be well known or new, your proud of yourself that you found it without any outside help
The nice thing about Nintendo is that they like to make really polished games.
The problem is that they want to make *really* polished games
Its not about polish here though. Games that have literally won awards for their polish are not glitchless.
Nintendo's problem is a matter of internal doctrine. They consider any "unintended mechanics" (quite from an interview with the developers of Doom Eternal after watching the then-current any% world record of their month-old game) to be a glitch, and they consider any glitch to be 'disruptive' and seek to fix it. If the fix does not cause additional problems or break other systems that they notice in testing, they patch it.
Excessively so
Since they discovered the joy of DLCs and "expansions", I'm sure we will get games that are a bit less polished in the near future, especially since the old guard over there are getting old and will leave at some point soon.
@@Mangaka-ml6xo If that is the case, I am very worried for the future of Nintendo. I am aware that Nintendo is not perfect, and I am trying hard not to. Nintendo over the years has done a lot of wrong, and will continue to do so. What I am focusing on is not just good and evil, but where things go wrong. For most of my memory, Nintendo has been special, for good and ill. If recent trends continue, Nintendo will be just another soulless AAA video game corporation with no values other than the whims of making a quick buck.
There is still hope. The old guard may be slowly dying out, but there might still be time to train a new one which will carry the legacy of Nintendo. I don't want to lose the continuity stretching back through much of video game history.
My first(and less ridiculous-sounding) proposition is to have Shigeru Miyamoto climb the ranks of management. He is old enough to be there for much of the current arc of Nintendo, but he is likely healthy enough to oversee Nintendo for quite a while. He has been an icon to many, and a visionary over the years, as important as Walt Disney or Henry Ford. This will buy essential time to find new apprentices.
I do have another plan, but it is hard to summarize with modern corporate language, and makes my "President Miyamoto" idea look normal. Using antiquated language more associated with monarchies, my ludicrous idea is to restore House Yamauchi to Nintendo, if one can legally even turn a publicly-traded corporation (NTDOY) into a sole or even joint proprietorship.
While at the same time, just throwing anything a their customers
"We hand out fuzzies as candy"
It's fine as long as we don't eat them.
Thanks for the ♥️ Ceave
You lucky ducky
@@matijatoskic6491 *NOICE*
@@idk-_- someone ruined the 69 likes
eergh!!
"That's *not* delicious"
I’m still shocked that we never got the ice flower...
not surprised it didn't make the cut but it does suck as it could lead to some really neat levels and secrets n stuff
ice flower was my favorite power up, its so clever and can be used in cool ways like using enemies as projectiles or turning bullet bills into platforms
Now THAT is a power up with probably the most glitch potential in the entire game. Think about it. Good lord. Nintendo will probably never incorporate it sadly
Yeah, that one super skills video with the bullet bills really showed how powerful it can be when used right
they probably found 1 single bug and decided:
Employees: Hey the Ice Flower has a few glit-
Nintendo: *Throw it out*
Employees: Wait we just spent 2 hours to code the thing into the game
Nintendo: *Your fired*
Nintendo is the type of company who would be willing to completely change the physics of a game in order to get rid of a beloved speedrun glitch
nintendo is the type of company who would change an iconic voiceline just to get rid of a misunderstanding
Speedrunners arent special
@@Gabe413 Plenty of glitches aren't just for speedruns, they just improve the game for everyone (like the cat suit one for example).
@@Gabe413 apparently they are if nintendo is wasting money to fix glitches that only a few people will try and utilise after hours of grinding it, just to have fun in the game in a way Nintendo didn't intended
@@Gabe413 no they're not, but the exploits or glitches they use to optimize the game are never going to be found in normal play, so there is no reason to waste development resources on the speedrunners.
What makes this even more baffling is how they've made at least one official video compiling glitches and exploits in older games before. When DKC was finally released on Switch Online, they made a video showcasing some glitches and exploits, and while I have no idea where to find this I remember on the Nintendo Channel on the Wii around Mario's 25th anniversary they made a video showcasing many of the game's glitches and exploits. While these are games released long before patches or even any online gaming functionality were a thing, and IIRC before the Internet was even a common thing anyway, it truly baffles me how they're completely fine with the glitches in these games but not more modern ones. While Mario Maker is strongly built on online functionality, most of the patched "glitches" add more to the game.
IIRC, the DKC1 video (well, the one I watched) only showcased one exploit, and a few cheat codes.
What's funnier about it is when they try to "fix" glitches they end up making a bunch more glitches possible with their patches
Gamedev in a nutshell
Remember when Valve tried to patch b-hopping in hl2 by making the player get negative speed after exceeding a certain speed limit, but it just made going backwards even faster? Game development is pain (not that I know from first hand experience)
Not much a Nintendo issue, that's just the life of a programmer. It's the ultimate hydra chop off one head and fucking 30 grow back
There's 99 bugs, you fixed one, and now there's 167 bugs.
Nintendo: we love imagination! Unless your imagination is something we haven't thought of.
Bruh
@@Helicopter7 Bruh
So true
literally nintendo taking down fangames
@@Kosmicant This doesn't make any sense, mario maker is literally about making new levels that nintendo didn't make. Not to mention people have no right to use the characters that Nintendo spent years of effort building
Finally, someone else saying and spreading exactly what I've been saying for years. Game developers: STOP PATCHING OUT FUN GLITCHES AND MOVEMENT TECH FOR NO REASON!!!!!
Nintendo already had a history of this way back in super mario 64. They released a patched version of it only in japan that fixes the backwards long jump glitch. It was called the Shindou edition.
Also changed Mario's voice clip so less gay Bowser jokes
And, judging by the gameplay in the 3D Collection, this is the edition that they are releasing in their All Stars game.
Which probably means that most, if not all the bugs included in that All Stars release (64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1) will be patched. They'll probably patch the Switch release of 3D World too.
But it's also worth keeping in mind that this is Nintendo, and they'll probably introduce a heap of new glitches on accident
i bought 3d all stars and i intended to be able to BLJ in it but i cant cause haha shindou edition go brrrrr
@blu if they were listening to he comunity they would've at least used a good old rom of 64, not the shindou edition, it's not that hard ro do wither since they're emulating everything and just changing some ui elements
Nintendo: "Hey Jeremy, what do you have there?"
Jeremy: "Oh, just a glitch. It makes some things possible that never were! The people love it."
Nintendo: *patches glitch immediately, removes jeremies medals and all levels, makes a statement on how we want you guys to play the game correctly, deletes anyone elses profiles for using the glitch in one level that isn't uploaded*
and doesn't even announce that glitches are banned
No they just patch the glitch.
@@kristianperez4108 not with Animal Crossing, everyone's money on the bank was WIPED fucking clean.
@@kristianperez4108 no shoot Sherlock
@Jay Jay On levels with the patched glitch maybe, when I played SMM1 Nintendo was lazy as hell with deleting exploit stages, maybe not so much now. Still, not 'every' level like what OP said.
12:30 This is something that a number of developers have picked up. If the game has it and it doesn't affect things like leaderboards or online play (or if it *does* but they can patch it for those instances specifically), they'll just leave it in.
Reminds me of Halo 2. One of the reasons I loved it so much was because of the glitches and tricks. When I got tried of playing the game the normal way, my friends and I would mess around with the glitches. Super jumping and getting out of the maps in campaign and multiplayer was so much fun and kept us busy for hours.
I just want to add this, if we do ever get a Mario 3D World Remake, depending on whether cat suit momentum is in the game or not will provide some evidence on the reasons is has been changed in Mario Maker 2, If the remake has cat momentum, then we can assume either
a) Nintendo has listened to the community and put it back or
b) that there was some other reason that they had to change the cat dive in Mario Maker 2
and if the remake does not have cat momentum then it would be safe to say that Nintendo did in fact actively remove cat momentum from Mario Maker 2 for one reason or another
I feel like the biggest reason why they didn't put it in SMM2 is because of online versus mode. Pinning people who know how to abuse momentum against those who don't could lead to a lot of salt
@@grahamcrackerguy7555
also we could apply the same to the ninji speedrun
I doubt they will make a remake though, atleast not so soon, perhaps only next console generation
@@buildinasentry1046
Mario's 35th anniversary
@@grahamcrackerguy7555 So you're not allowed to know how to play well?
fun fact: people can have fun with a completely differently branching meaning to what you created without harming what you created
@@bsmith1604 what a savage
I think he just meant people can have fun not in the way you intended for it
While this is true, it CAN have a negative effect. Melee as an example. What was supposed to be a party game played with all your friends and crazy items and whacky stuff going on the maps turned into "Final Destination 1V1 Fox vs Mario". The unintended way to play became so prevalent that it overshadowed and then morphed what the series was, and now even in ultimate the online is setup to be more like a fighting game than the party game it was supposed to be.
Im not here to argue over whether it is or isn't a fighting game, but unintended ways to play a game/vew a type of media CAN harm it this is just the most obvious example.
I don’t think you could consider the competitive nature of Melee an explicitly bad thing. Ultimate can be and still is a really enjoyable casual game.
@Melchor Herrera This isn't Nintendo embracing or caring about the competitive smash audience, this is Nintendo begrudgingly accepting that they exist. And smash was huge before melee had a competitive scene. Keep in mind that both brawl and smash for 3DS and Wii U sold way better even though most smash competitive players thought those games were way worse. In fact, smash for 3DS sold better than the wii U version even though it didn't even have a competitive format. People vastly overestimate the amount of sales that competitive smash generates, and underestimate the actual sales potential of the characters in the game.
Side note, the thing that made smash competitive was bugs and glitches. If Sakurai could go back in time and patch them, he would as he sees them as the thing that mutated the franchise to a direction he didn't care for. Melee is probably a huge factor in why they act the way they do towards unintended ways to play. Nintendo looks at it as "look at what leaving in glitches did to this franchise"
In a nutshell: Nintendo wants you to play the Nintendo way, not your way.
That Random Internet Guy and I don’t care because the Nintendo way is fun
@@cheesefellow3851 wow how nice
Ali Wasi thank you
@@cheesefellow3851 I was being sarcastic, Saying 'I dont care' is just plain rude and makes you sound cold
Ali Wasi really? Because I made that comment in the nicest way possible, I didn’t insult or make fun of anyone, I just said I liked the Nintendo way of playing, I didn’t try to make it seem that the ‘your way’ said in this above comment was worse
I dont work for Nintendo but I do work in software. I agree that sometimes glitches happen and they should be embraced when they make the game better. From a development perspective though its a nightmare, maintaining glitches are a pain. We might fix something else and it fixes another glitches that we did not know was a feature to some users. Or we have to make special exceptions so a bug keeps working, which is hard to maintain. This drives up testing time and dev time which increased cost, and we are off working on another new project so don't have those resources. So often we often go back to the original design document for the project to keep things from ballooning.
Maintaining glitches is hard but creating a feature based on one isn't. For example, TF2's Solider can rocket jump which is based on a glitch, now (and since forever) a feature of TF2. Valve maintained that easily and even made a weapon that did no damage for infinite rocket jumping. So, they knew what the glitch was, they implemented it and then doubled down on it. All based on a glitch. They didn't maintain a glitch, they made it a feature.
My entire view of Nintendo has changed through the dire news of the BLJ being patched a third time and this video. We must preserve all remaining N64s and their games!
@@00O3O1B it's also the reason ROMs are overshadowing some of nintendo's current games and why Nintendo is trying to strike them down, just look at melee as a primary current example.
But why kill fan roms when they could just kill their own games so much easier? I mean just look at Pokken, ARMS, and Hyrule Warriors
@@00O3O1B I agree with the open source philosophy. If a company is no longer producing or selling something, they have nothing to lose by making it open-source. Unless you're Nintendo, who are overly possessive like an abusive spouse
The reason the BLJ is patched in 3D All-Stars is because the collection uses the Shindou Edition, which includes various bug fixes, controller vibration and voice clip changes, such as Mario saying "Bye bye!" to Bowser after throwing him instead of "So long, King Bowser!"
Or... I guess...
Do what you want was a pirate is free, you are a pirate!
*YAR HAR FIDDLE DEE-DEE*
Eh as good as a point this video makes, I don't think the removal of the BLJ is a good example of Nintendo's destructive glitch policy in motion.
The reason why the BLJ is removed in Mario all stars is because it's running the shindou version of the game which was a 1997 rerelease which supported rumble and had some other small changes. The BLJ wasn't discovered until 2000 and even then it was in a random Spanish magazine, it wouldnt have been widely known until a 2003 forum post so no one could have known about it and no one was doing all the crazy shit we see done with it today. Nintendo wasn't being malicious by patching it out, it was probably them saying "oh shit we forgot to limit negative speed" and fixing it. Remember the line from the Miyazaki interview, if they had known about that glitch during development, they would have patched it. That's not keeping the game the way you want it to be played, it's just a simple bug fix, any big studio would have done that.
Now, the reason why the shindou version is the one in 3d all stars is also simple. It was just the most recent version of the game, it supported rumble it made the most sense for that to be the one out on the Wii eshop and later 3d all stars
This isn't some defence of Nintendo or their glitch policy I just think it's a commonly misunderstood topic and it's worth knowing all the facts
This honestly should be so simple to figure out for anyone: "can this unintended feature cause harm to a player that performs it by accident?" if so, patch it; otherwise, if it only rewards players that intentionally go for it, you should keep it, period
To be fair, I would also say you should weigh the harm against how likely you are to do it by accident and fan response. If it can accidentally a great deal of harm, but it's exceedingly unlikely to happen by accident (maybe requires a very specific unlikely set of button presses or circumstances) and it has a big positive fan response, it is probably worth it to keep it. If it is someqhat likely to happen by accident, has no significant positive fan response (maybe not useful for speed runs, exploration, or whatever), and does a noteable though perhaps not great deal of harm, it is still maybe a good idea to patch it. Although I mostly play retro games which don't have any patches so I mean I'm fine with mininal patches on well made games 🤷♀️
I mean the examples given are totally capable of doing harm. Be it players running into 3D World levels that are unbeatable without the unintuitive Cat Momentum or people using Glydon to clip into walls... And put Luigi Balloons in (which was already a problem with that mode lol)
There is totally a balance that online play makes tricky
I completely agree.
At least if the game is single player.
Your first priority should be fun.
Your second priority should be fun.
And your third priority should be, you guessed it
Having yammy fish.
Meow!
Third option: If it's something you don't want your game to have, remove it.
@@colmecolwag > Be it players running into 3D World levels that are unbeatable without the unintuitive Cat Momentum
What about uh the other billion smal tricks that are still in the game that are unintuitive? Like half of what the link costume is capable of, or ground pound momentum canceling to jump farther?
And why should that even matter in the first place? There are thousands and thousands and thousands of levels out there that have some kind of knowledge requirement that game doesn't teach you that you need to know in order to beat the level. Why is every player suppose to be able to beat every single level in a game with player made levels?
"catspiracy theory" were the closed captions written exclusively for this video
yeah, its not auto generated
@@ilEagle3696 thx
@@uliveulearnandregret no prb
you can tell with punctuation
Something that is hard for people to wrap their heads around is that unintended interactions are not necessarily bugs. They may be treated the same as bugs for the purposes of fixing them but that doesn't mean they have to be. But a more nuanced touch is needed for that kind of thing. You can't just rock up to every problem and demolish it with a 5kg maul and expect everything to come out smooth.
This focus on "intended" over "fun" reminds me of how Paper Mario games (and Mario spinoffs in general) aren't allowed to make new characters who relate to character or enemy types from the main series anymore.
Which isn't even true considering Paper Mario: The Origami King has a toad with a unique outfit & name. It's just their excuse for making lazy games to sell to sheep.
@@D_YellowMadness You mean Professor Toad? Because that's not a particularly unique name.
I don't understand what the actual fuck happened to Paper Mario.
Being thin as paper was literally a quirky stylistic choice, but for some fucking reason I guess some new executive came in and took it literally or something, which is why all the games feel soulless. Of course they feel soulless, they're literally cardboard cutouts.
[Ceave mimicing Nintendo] "Hooray. We've solved an issue that was never an issue to begin with... Another job well done. Next let's fix the icicles"
I've never heard Ceave so vengefully salty
Community: "Hey so we found this glitch that actually breaks the game and makes it hard to play properly, can you fix it?"
Nintendo: "No."
Community: "Hey I found this cool little thing that probably wasn't intended but it makes the game more fun!"
Nintendo: "You're not playing the game the right way, so we're removing it. You play OUR games OUR way or you don't play them at all!"
BONUS:
Community: "Hey here's a fan-made non-profit fan game we made celebrating our love for Nintendo games!"
Nintendo: "CEASE AND DESIST HEATHENS!!!"
ANOTHER BONUS:
Community: “So we just want to play Melee online for an event-“
Nintendo: “YOU WHAT?!”
The third one _kinda_ makes sense due to copyright, trademark, and similar laws being designed extremely poorly, but Nintendo goes much further than they actually need to. xD
Nintendo's pretty stupid
@Neocereus i'd say the fact that most nintendo games literally never get discounted below 40$ even ages after they're being relased is a pretty fucking stupid thing they refuse to fix
yes i'm aware what i just said is unrelated, may i introduce you to the word "joke"
Fans: "We used harmless, cosmetic glitches to put shooting stars on our trees! That way, people who use the new dream suite will be able to explore even more beautiful islands :)"
One (1) salty poketuber: "That's CHEATING"
Nintendo: *instant patch*
"Evolution forged the entirety of speedrunning on this planet using only one tool... The Mistake."
"THATS NOT THE WAY THE GAME WAS INTENDED TO BE PLAYED!"
-nintendo, probably
"No, that's not how you are supposed to play the game!"
-Masahiro Sakurai
Nintendo doesn't care that you're using a glitch, they care that the glitch exists in the first place.
It’s weird that Nintendo is so adamant about patching each and every glitch out of their games when; 1) The players still find them anyways, and 2) Some of the best games in history have tons of bugs (and sometimes that’s actually the reason why they’re so fun).
Like, Nintendo just has this obsession with making their games as glitch-less and visually smooth as possible, instead of like, actually focusing on making the games _better._ Which has always seemed like a weird approach to me.
Especially with the recent news on how they can’t make any new, unique characters in the Mario universe, it’s like they’re going for a cookie-cutter formula to make making games easier, at the cost of losing fun and creativity. Which, also, makes no sense to me. I think the main problem is Nintendo’s PR system and how poorly they listen to player feedback. Their PR system is so weird. It’s like they’re totally tone-deaf to their communities, and whenever a problem or glitch arises, they focus on making duct-tape temporary solutions rather than thinking about the long-term effects of anything.
The BUD glitch plays a huge part in redstone community of minecraft and it became a feature. That's why I like Mojang.
@@Joker-fj8hg Mojang is always cool
*bUt wHerE's tHe cAVe uPdAtE???*
/s
eat hot chip and lie Well spoken! You get an applause - 👏👏👏! Have yourself a lovely day, cheers! ~🌸
Absolutely agree on the PR team being a bunch of braindead idiots - one only has to look at Dexit and how poorly it was announced and handled. Urgh. They really need to get fired.
Imagine if Capcom was like this.
"What's that? You can cancel attack animations in Street Fighter II into other attacks? And people love it? Well, that's not what we intended, so let's patch it out in Champion Edition."
You mean how they tried patch the sky walk for re2 R ?
This is a perfect example here. Tying this back to Nintendo: Nintendo almost entirely got rid of any and all comboes in Smash Bros Brawl and the game suffered as a whole from it. They also got rid of wave dashing and dash dancing and then added tripping to punish you for doing it. They hated how people played Melee THAT much. 4 comes out and they entirely changed their tune which helped the game (even though the balloon knockback and slowness hurt it in the end). Dash dancing was back, so were comboes, and strings actually worked correctly for more than 5 characters. Now in ultimate, they made strings even better and fixed the speed. They did remove some infinites but over all, they ACTUALLY responded correctly to what the community wanted. Somehow, they just don't seem to do the same for any other franchise.
68th like, someone finish the job
and that would be not ungoodn't
@@annihilator247x They screwed up royally with Brawl. Nintendo's reluctance to allow players to play their games in ways they didn't intend them to led them to make bad decisions quite a lot. In Smash Brawl, they chose to add tripping, remove directional air dodges, and make combos nearly impossible presumably to combat some of Melee's more advanced techniques. Die hard fans stuck with Melee because of it's superiority over Brawl competitively, which subsequently caused a splinter group to form within the Smash Bros community. Future games like Smash 4 and, to a lesser extent, Ultimate suffered as a result of this division, one that would have never happened if Nintendo wasn't so reluctant to let the players enjoy their games in the way that the players want to enjoy them.
By continuously "fixing" things that don't even need fixing in the first place, Nintendo has continued to hurt their own games. The Mario Maker 2 Cat Suit problem is a drop in the bucket, all things considered, but the recurring problem has shown even long before Nintendo was capable of implementing balance patches. I'm a bit scared to see the features Nintendo patched out of their 3D All Stars Collection.
@@annihilator247x You guys seem to forget that nintendo doesn't develop the smash games. The smash games are developed by HAL (now Sora), a completely independent development studio and company.
As some wise men once said, some games develop themselves, they tell you what game they want to be. Nintendo should try to learn that, and that not every game mechanic should be 100% planned or intended, it often makes a game better than your original idea.
I'm reminded of that story from the remake of OOT for 3ds that was on DYKG;
when they were working on OOT the Japanese dev team kinda breathed a sigh of relief and said, "oh good, we finally get to fix all of the bugs and glitches," to which the western team said, "but some of those were my favorite memories of the game, I love those bugs, lets just patch the ones that broke the game." IIRC the japanese team were kinda dumbstruck at the concept, that some people like some glitches. This more comes to a design philosophy, of an eastern vs western mindset. In japan, any kind of mistake, beneficial or not, should be rectified if able, whereas in the west, if it's broken but in a fun or interesting way, we tend to highlight it or figure out why it broke that way so it can be replicated or refined. The former ideology lends itself to a more soloist but "always reaching new heights" type of dev, and the latter leads to a more community driven "if it's stupid and it works, it can't be THAT stupid" kind of dev
Hey sometimes stupid can be fun
This is the perfect response to this video. I feel like Cleave doesnt understand that the Japanese market is totally different from ours. Nintendo is NOT wrong to fix the glitches at all, its something broken after all. Its just that us westerners tend to have fun with broken stuff anyway
so if Civ where a japanese ip, the ghandi nuke meme wouldn't be, if i understood you correctly.
@@sagichnichtsowiesonicht7326 iirc that did start because of a bug, ghandi was supposed to be peaceful but they put a wrong symbol somewhere i think? The meme would still exist the first time it happened but if it reached dev ears they'd probably patch it or change it by the next game.
Maybe they aren’t used to the concept
Nintendo, 1980s: "here's how to reach the minus world!"
Nintendo, 2020: "STOP HAVING FUN WRONG!"
It's evolving, just backwards.
Except Breath of the Wild.
That's not how you're supposed to play the game!
If anyone makes a fan game they shut them down, Nintendo are so anti-consumer
Thats apparently called progress in the political sphere.
"We made a glitched level"
Nintendo: no shoo
"We made 2 glitched levels"
14:52 "it is possible on your own Mario 64 copy" ah yes, the personalized one
You forgot one thing:
Nintendo punishes Mario Maker players if they find glitches.
Because they're public knowledge now. Nintendo's most likely working on patching the games on their own, so in their minds they don't need your help.
arch btw So demonstrating them in test mode is fine?
@arch btw Bit of important information there that OP didn't mention...
Im pretty sure the reason for this is that they dont want levels that rely on glitches to be completed online, as that would technically make it unfair to the players that are not in the know. And knowing Nintendo, they want their game to be accessible to everyone. This is different from troll levels though, as there's no real way to stop that kind of thing.
I uploaded 2 Uno-Mas levels already. it won't be my level making career though. I just showed a funny animation and a weird interaction with pipes and mush trampolines that stops you from entering downwards pipes
You could say Nintendo does this since the 90s. In Japan, they released the Super Mario 64 - Shindou Edition, which mainly incorporates changes of the international Versions of Super Mario 64 and adds Rumble Support. However, they also fixed the infamous Backwards Long-jump among other glitches, something a regular player would probably not figure out and which is the main component why this game is so prominent in the (Speedrun community) today. But since it released merely 2 years after the original Japanese Release, it is more on the unlikely side that they fixed it because fans discovered the trick.
We should’ve seen this coming when we weren’t allowed to ride our bikes indoors
Pokemon?
Love-colored Magicó Succ Yep
"Nintendo's words echoed... There's a time and a place for global ground, but not icicles"
Well tbh, that isn’t Nintendo’s fault there. That’s GameFreaks fault
Another example of a game development team that's really cool about glitch policies is the Titanfall 2 team, I was watching one of Bryanato's GDQ runs and he mentioned how the developers worked with speedrunners and they essentially created a mutually beneficial relationship where speedrunners would find glitches to help with the speedrun, and the devs would patch it out of multiplayer to stop players from gaining unintended advantages but keep it in the singleplayer campaign. One of the devs contributed to the route actually because he knew a part of the game that didn't have collision so they could do an out of bounds glitch, really awesome guys.
Concerned Ape reached out to us for Stardew Valley Speedrunning and asked about certain glitches, and if he could remove or limit them if they were to game breaking or if it would remove the interest in the speedrun.
Now I'm worried that a 3D World Deluxe would try to "fix" de cat suit as well and make it so that you can't build speed :c
Oh god. I never even considered that. :(
Hopefully the outcry would be loud and clear, though.
Count on it
Getting lots of speed is why 3-1 is one of my favorite stages
Cromanti Cheer if it happens we need to scream at nintendo
wow I'd be happy if we even get the game
“That’s not the route they decided to take surprised pikachu dot jpeg”
Hehe
piKAHchu
Is there a download link?
Took me three tries to actually figure out what he was saying there...
@@ThePCguy17 thats why u use captions on Ceave's videos. He is so great that he has time to make for us captions
This is what I love about Celeste. They programmed all these cool tricks into the game intentionally, like hypers and wall bounces, then designed the levels so you could actually use those tricks once you come back to them. Then the community finds an unintended trick, like demodashing, and instead of patching it they keep it in mind for the Celeste DLC and make it easier to pull off.
Great video. I just learned about the cat suit trick a couple of days back and I don't play mario maker. Wow, what a terrible decision on that implementation :-/.
2:24 " At least in, what is objectively, my opinion"
Ceave, never change how you talk.
This theory works when applied to Mario Kart Wii as well. There are a ton of crazy shortcuts, and while some are game breaking and should be patched, there were others that didn't win you the game for free and generally took a lot of skill to pull. Look at Grumble Volcano in MKW vs MK8(DX). The Grumble Volcano ultra shortcut that allows you to complete the game in under 20 seconds should get patched, but the Rock Hop shortcut in the same track should not be. MK8(DX) patched both. This is one of the main reasons a lot of people prefer MKW over it. In making sure that there were no game breaking shortcuts in MK8(DX), they removed basically all interesting shortcuts as well.
I find that sentence pretty genius, not only is it true, it plays with the timing of the sentence, it subverts the expectations of the listener, and does so with a comedic, and a little bit oxymoronic touch
That shortcut was a nice reward for being good. Also, imaging competing there.
The Name Nintendo literally has No surrounding the word "intend"
coincidence? I THINK NOT
that was probably, not intended
Stray216 no intend*
@@Spicii9896 yeah no coincedence
This comment should have 26000 likes and 498 anwsers
Nintendo is like a railroading game master in TTRPGs.
Yeah but you still get to pick your class and have it’s quirks. They are more like a GM I used to have where if they thought an ability or spell was too strong they would “balance” it.
This is why I love the Ultrakill devs.
They approached the game with the mindset of "would this fun? Yes? Add it in"
Even an unintended glitch that allows you to jump into the air higher than anything else, and run at mach 10 using the same glitch, making multiple platforming sections insanely easy, was kept in because it's cool and fun.
Same thing with multiple wall clips. They did remove a couple, but you can get out of bounds in quite a few places in the game, and some have silly Easter eggs.
I've never been a huge Nintendo person outside the smash series tbh, but dang this is sad... great video!
I'm just imagining that I'm watching the power-up ranking video, and you spend 18 minutes on the Cat Suit and just progress naturally to the Goomba Mask as if half the video wasn't spent on it.
"No, this isn't how you're supposed to play the game!"
"no, this isnt how you're supposed to make the game!"
Even Sakurai is this way, and this quote proves it
@@Parpeing that was 5 months ago.
Haha cat dive go brrr
@Anhilo who cares your comment is still wrong
Surprisingly simple count for this video: 0
Total surprisingly simple count since Ceave returned: 1
An interesting related case can be found with Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and the 3DS version of it (Or maybe it was Majora's Mask), certain well known bugs and glitches were going to be patched out during the remake process, but someone encouraged them not to because they had become such a huge part of the community and spirit of the game, that removing them would worsen the experience, the way it had been explained was "Hey, back on the 64 version if you did this, this really cool thing happened" "No way, lets see if it's still in!" And then they try it, and its still works!
I didn't know that, it's really cool if so.
In those games they removed 1 glitch and added 2 new. They are more broken than the original
Oot 3D had that mindset and it was a pretty faithful remake of oot 64, Majora's mask on the other hand falls into the mindset talked about in this video, just look at deku links spin jump momentum in the 64 version vs 3d
@@imhaddanitattaxx4172 And that right there is why OoT3D is a good remake while MM3D isn't.
@@wesnohathas1993 Well unless you don't care about glitches, which is the case for most of the playerbase.
Now I’m worried they’ll screw with the Cat Suit when porting 3D World to Switch!
o.o
I really hope they don't, I want to try the cat dive trick, but I don't wanna buy a wii u
I've heard that it works the same, but they didn't scale the dive speed to the new run speed.
So you actually dive slower than you run now😭😭
People: having unintended fun in nintendo games
Nintendo: That's not how you're supposed to play the game
Nintendo: That’s illegal.
wasn't like the only update that mario kart ever got was on the DS version that patched out a bunch of unintended shortcuts?
must be why half the pokedex is missing for no good reason.
I honestly hate how Nintendo doubles down on this stuff. I honestly think it's cuase they're still butt hurt cuase they don't understand fair use. It's like they refuse the admit all of there legal actions against fair use are wrong.
The most fucked up thing about this is that we as a community aren't doing shit about it. When Sony slapped a lawsuit on one guy for literally showing people how to steal games with there console's, Anonymous hackers DDoS the hell out of them for a month. Where the hell is that justice now? Nintendo takes legal action on kids singing the pokemon theme song, modders operating on separate hardware for no monetary gain, people remixing there music, people adding music clips in the background of there videos, let's player's on UA-cam, and people simply using there hardware to communicate. Yet Anonymous does absolutely nothing. We still buy there stuff, we still worship them, we still act like no one does things better. There's no justice. Nintendo literally takes DLC away from people who aren't using the WiiU anymore and we smile like it's ok, Nintendo ports last gen games for literally the same price if not more, we smile like it's ok, Nintendo limits there supply causing false demand and inflated price gouging, we smile like it's ok, Nintendo literally forces us to play there games exsactly the way they want becuase they're still butthurt about the game genie decades later, and we smile like that's ok... but it's not. They're oppressive. Yet we do nothing. Where's the hackers now? Where is there justice now? Why does Nintendo get special treatment?
I get it, you guys grew up with Nintendo, so did I. I had every single game console Nintendo has made since the 80's... but I see how they're acting. They aren't doing the right thing and coming out the winner anymore. There doing whatever it takes to win now... that's not what they used to be about. There conniving antics and strict "don't do that" attitude is just downright wrong. It shouldn't matter if you grew up with them or not. Soon people will see this kind of behavior as alright, soon it will be impossible to get any console cuase every console developer will do what Nintendo does to limit there stock and drive up prices, soon we won't be able to see any video game walkthrew, rants, or lets plays becuase everyone will side with Nintendo and see them as infringements on there products, soon we won't be able to even get sound files of our favorite game music cuase Nintendo will find those sites and shut them down we won't be able to remix them either, soon we won't be able to speedrun our games the best way possible becuase it showcases "flaws" in the game which creates a "negative" image on said product... will you be smiling then? Will you turn a blind eye then? Will we even be allowed to play video games at that point? Will video games even BE video games? If we keep letting Nintendo get away with this stuff... I don't think the future will have video games. IDK what they will be... but I sure as hell won't be playing with them.
@@jasonmnosaj damn you wrote an entire school essay
and thats not to mention that it doesnt stop at glitches, when the official nintendo treehouse crew (i think it was them) wanted to do a nuzlocke playthrough of a new pokemon game, their managers shut them down telling them "no glitches", even when it was explained that it wasnt a glitch, just a different way to play the game, they were told not to inquire about it further and that they could not do it
"There's something called the wet nut jump"
Smallant viewers: Spam smolNut
👁
i hate you
yee haw
Hell yeah
What does that even mean?
Sega: Its not bug it's an amazing community found feature.
Nintendo: That is a bug KILL IT NOW.
Sega do what Nintendon't. Except it's technically the reverse.
@@GeorgeDCowley They're both stupid.
But Sonic 06 was at least hilarious because of the glitches. So y'know.
Vassagio Budnick haha bugs are cute ❤
Could you give me some examples where it was specifically SEGA who said something like this?
@Michael Persico yea but it removes an option instead of adding another way to do it
Plus the people who have that muscle memory likely spent hours if not days learning it if they were serious about it and all that time effectively goes down the drain if you just remove it
I just watched an 18 minute video of someone making a conspiracy theory about a powerup that works a bit different from the rest. It was worth it.
Love how in the original mario game wall jumping wasnt supposed to be a thing, but he kept it in because of it being usefull or something, now its a feature of most mario games
2:52 "Nintendo seems to really like this idea of designing powerups with as little button presses as possible"
Nintendo loves half A presses confirmed?
actually, i heard something about nintendo leaving the minus world glitch in one of the remakes, because they considered it an important aspect of the games history or something along those lines.
now they remove "glitches" that make you play a level faster...
im almost 100% sure nintendo hates the speedrunning community, honestly i have no idea why they have ninji speedruns when they so actively shoot down speedrunning tactics
@@Spicii9896 yeah, especially since speedruns are some of the biggest aspects of mario games. nintendo also used to support speedruns by putting in all the shortcuts in 2d mario games, but it feels like nintendo doesn't want the speedruns to be creative, but more of a scripted path, which just ruins all the fun of it. and in video games, there really comes a point where glitches become features. personally, i see things like the bullet time bounce in botw and the backwards longjump in sm64 as features that came from glitches, they're just a standart nowadays.
Nintendo: screws up cat suit
Also Nintendo: has Splatoon be a hacker's playground
The funniest thing about that is that the reason why hackers have been able to run rampant is because Nintendo doesn't want to put in the time and effort to fix something like this, because it doesn't really have an impact on gameplay (eyeroll) and it's not easily accessible. Nintendo cares far more about making sure players play the way Nintendo wants than having players play the way they enjoy.
@@onyxiris But hacking isn't the way Nintendo intended the game to be played!
Imagine if Matt Makes Games decided to patch out all of the really amazing and challenging speed tech in Celeste like cboosts and demodashes, which are the few techs that weren't intended, but still exist and are used in amazing ways.
Huh.
*Farewell secret demo dash room has entered the chat.*
I would say that preservation of unintended mechanics is a primary reason I still enjoy Celeste, years after first playing it. Glitches are still being found and shared regularly, adapting the toolset for movement and keeping me learning and exploring well beyond the game's intended content. Some truly amazing spectacles have been achieved with what we have found; for a good example lookup the current Farewell TAS, which exploits a variety of glitches that in many other climates would have been removed.
Other gamedesigners: It's not a Bug, it's a Feature.
Nintendo: It's not a Feature, it's a Bug.
Ea: its not a scam its a feature
*Nintendo before online play
*Nintendo after online play
Technically, doesn't that make Nintendo a truthful game company?
In other words, you know... a positive trait to have lol
Lucious Mere technical honesty isn't admirable. Just look at the way other companies have promoted their shit as of late. Though in Nintendo's case they're sort of doing it right because it's either ruin the super-hardcores' fun or use questionable anti-cheat measures that would piss off EVERYONE. *coughDenuvo* Not to say that they couldn't and shouldn't let the freaks have their brand of cake as well.