Next video, Soo I was scripting a video on the ground in Mario bros u, and then... i started scripting the part about grass, and then I stopped scripting the part about grass
@@notregisteredname7393 You could actually make the grass in NSMBU into a video, because it always bugged me how the grass in the background didn't match that in the foreground, and I'd like to see an in-depht explanation on why that is.
also that in order to shoot you have to take your thumb off the joystick so you can no longer adjust the shot for just the split second before firing which makes any kind of moving target way harder to hit. it ends up feeling similar to how input lag feels to me, and you're essentially forced to use the motion controls that feel like they do nothing to make any last moment adjustments
"It's honestly just me ranting about tanks for over fifteen minutes." This is the quality content we subscribed for. And glad you're not dead. I'd thought you'd accidentally touched a coin.
Of course the other issue with the tank "overheating" as an excuse for the shot limit is that you can spam shots into a wall and not overheat, but you do overheat from firing three shots into the distance, which you can do comparatively slowly. And that's just conceptually inconsistent and silly.
@@alignstars2962 Yeah, so Nintendo is really trying to tell us that the Switch isn't powerful enough to process more than 3 missiles 😂 note, not sarcasm I'm just joking
"I've never drove a real tank before, in fact I do not know anyone who owns a tank" Ceave trying to cover up his war crimes I see You can't hide forever *we know what you did*
That sounds to me like the exact opposite of what someone who's driven a tank would say if you ask me. If I had ever driven a tank, I assure you I would find any excuse possible to share that information, much like I do with having fired a Mk 19 grenade launcher. Because I have; I've fired a Mk 19 grenade launcher, just so you know.
The worst part about tanks is that since they replicate a first-person shooter, my mind instinctively uses ZR to shoot, and I release the capture instead
I'm guessing ZR is the default "shoot" button in a lot of FPS games? I haven't really played anything other than Splatoon with a controller, so I never really developed a mindset for what a "shoot" button would be. This DOES make me realize an old PS2 game I played as a kid was trying for that... with a sword of all things!
@@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566 "if i had a nickel for every time Ceave made a ranting vid because he was making a tier-list and gound something super dumb , i would have 2 nickels" "thats not much , but its weird that it happened twice"
"i dont even know anyone who owns a REAL tank" the fact that ceave even felt they had to say said that makes me believe they do in fact know someone who owns a tank
It’s not that hard to own a tank if you have the money for it. In Texas you can own one, it just has to have it’s weapons disabled so it can’t shoot anything
@@jebalitabb8228 Weapons laws are much different here in the EU and propably in Switzerland as well. Here in Germany only the military owns tanks and the soldiers have to get an extra drivers licence. There is a military base near my village, so tanks with "drivers school" written on them used to drive though my street.
I'm guessing the axis problems with the tank aim is due to the game engine, which makes me think the tanks were added later in development. In 3rd person platformers the camera follows the character's movement (the important part of a 3d platformer) so if you really want to push the camera one way, you would need less speed because it's already turning a bit on its own to follow the character's movement. Even more amplified by how far the camera is from the character, and the fact that even in the most vertical-focused platformers you'll be doing a lot of horizontal shenanigans to move vertically - simply because the thing holding you down and that makes the game hard, gravity, is going vertically. So, the vertical camera is less restricted because it has to move far less, and if you * want * to move it it needs more speed. Now imagine a perfectly tweaked camera for this system, that works flawlessly for a 3rd person platformer, and stick it close to the character instead, and make it a prominent factor with aim rather than something that is secondary to the main movement of the character: no matter how much they tweak it it won't work. They'd need it to be a separate camera system, which requires more time and more possible bugs to debug. Either they didn't consider it worth the time investment - which isn't very Nintendo, especially with how much effort they put into Odyssey - or the tanks were added late in development and, since the aim just felt "a little off" they stuck with it instead of spending time making the perfect system and risking more bugs and dev time. EDIT: the fact that aim is broken even with motion controls makes me think even more that this was a late addition.
@@amazingfireboy1848 tl;dr the camera in most platformers, this included, has special tweaks making it to rotate when the player rotates, but only on the horizontal axis. i suspect the tanks were added later in development both due to the buggy gyro controls, and the fact that the camera behaves as if it was a platformer camera but set to fps.
However both things shouldn't be related. It shouldn't be that hard to add a second camera with different settings. And it's not that hard to make the transition seamless either, simply switch to the camera once the transition is done, and the image gets close enough. Even then, what's stopping Nintendo from giving a single camera more than 1 "mode"? No idea.
All the tank nerds (maybe including me): now what kind of tank is it? M60? ISU-152? etc. etc. Edit: I just realized it's supposed to reference an M4 Sherman
@@ELing-ib1ki It's not inspired by any real life tank Of course the boxy hull could be reminiscent of a Tiger, the square turret might be inspired by one of the british cruisers (maybe something like a Cromwell turret, which is in line with the riveted armour), but the whole gun mantlet assembly is more similar to an early Sherman or something like an A-13 or even a Pz IV. But TBH it still looks like a boxified 105mm Sherman
There's another problem with the tank that only affects a minority of games--myself included. See, when I'm playing a 3D game with a 3rd person camera, I need to play with the X-axis inverted. I think it's because in 3rd person, my brain perceives the camera as a physical object that's orbiting behind Mario. When I press left, the CAMERA should move left, which allows me to see to the right. (This used to be the default for 3D Mario games back in the day btw. I'm pissed they changed it in All Stars and didn't give us the option to change it back.) BUT, when I'm playing a game in 1st person (or over-the-shoulder), I need the X-axis UNinverted, because now my brain perceives the camera as the character's eyes. If I press left, my CHARACTER should swivel left, allowing me to see to the left. Nintendo did not give us camera settings for both 3rd person AND 1st person. This absolutely RUINED the tanks for me. When I played the game casually, I dreaded using the tanks, because I had to either deal with the backwords-ass controls, or pause the game and change the camera settings, just for a few minutes at most, and then change them back once I was out of the tank. Now, I've been speedrunning the game for close to two years, and I've begrudgingly gotten used to the backwords-ass tank camera controls (because of course Mecha-Wiggler is one of the few bosses in the game that you can't skip), but this is absurd. This should be considered an accessibility problem. I know I'm in a minority, but I'm certainly not the only one who has this problem. Everyone has a different idea of what feels "normal" for camera controls.
The game series "metro" does the X Y sensitivity difference on purpose to make the game feel claustrophobic to great effect. It doesn't fit into a mario game tho
Honestly in general I think the X direction should be slightly faster than the Y direction, since there's more to cover in the X direction than the Y direction. Obviously don't make the difference jarring, just very slight
Ceave: "The tanks are a reference to a WW2 tank, which is a weird reference for a Mario game." BDG: *flies over a banned by the UN trap in Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2*
I would actually love to hear an analysis of the problematic aspects of the other captures! I think there's a lot of them that we all understand don't function well, but it's hard to figure out what part of them is the problem.
17:40 I love how he puts these little details in the video. They make the video richer, and also much more fun to watch. Thank you for the quality, thanks for improving my quality of life, stay safe. P.S. Loved the spelling corrections XD
The last thing that makes them dumb, that you forgot to mention: You have to press X or Y to fire... but to aim you have to use the right analog stick (or the bad gyro). What are you supposed to do? Snap your index finger over the front of the controller to press x? I'm using my thumb to aim, I can't use it to press X! So you kinda have to stop aiming for a split second before you can fire. WHY??? Why not just bind it to right trigger like EVERY SHOOTING GAME EVER?? "because that kicks you out of the capture" Then make an exception for this one! The camera is different, the mechanics are different, MAKE THE BUTTONS DIFFERENT!!
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but going into your settings and changing aim sensitivity to high greatly helps the gyro aim controls for the tank. The wiggler fight especially is significantly better because you can actually aim up right like you describe in the first point of the video
15:15 C’mon, Ceave, you really need to buy more Fuzzies if you know you’ll be doing another video like this. I’ve heard they’ll be coming back in stock soon.
The tanks were my least -favorite capture. You go from running around, jumping off walls and all that, to capturing a tank, then the entire flow comes to a screeching halt as you have to stop and relearn how the tank operates every time.
So, in regards to a lot of these points it feels like most of the tank's issues come from compromises more than anything. Specifically, Reticle moves vertically on the screen instead of staying centered, leading to mismatched X/Y aiming -> this was probably to prevent extreme camera angles or even worse versions of making the tank transparent as shown in the boss fight Aim acceleration on the horizontal axis only -> aim acceleration is pretty bad in general, but with no control to aim down the sights, the same camera input has to be used for precise aiming and turns of up to 180 degrees. It would take forever to turn if it was slow, and be impossible to aim if it was fast Gyro control failures -> no design excuse for this one, but if they had to tack gyro on late in development it could certainly cause these problems Shooting interrupts movement -> usually used to add to the sense of impact of heavy attacks. In the worst case, an attempt at realism gone very wrong. Bullets travel too slowly -> Mario's bullets travel at about the same speed as enemy tanks' bullets Max 3 bullets on screen -> this is usually either a technical or balance issue, though technical is unlikely given the ability to spam bullets into walls and spawn particles. It would be an odd choice for balance with the exception of the boss fight, which would be trivial to spam down without a shot limit I don't disagree that the design is bad, though. A lot of these that appear to be compromises also seem unpolished to me, and it definitely could have used more time and consideration. The weird thing to me is that they don't seem to be patching gyro..
I wonder why they made different aiming on axis but didn't made separated crosshair for point where cannon aimed so player have comfortable aiming but have to wait till cannon turn around, very common way to handle aiming from slow things in FPS.
Hey Ceave, I’ve always wondered: where do you get all your fuzzy beetles? Aren’t they hard to move around, since you take damage if you touch them? They seem very hard to move in the games.
Yall don't need to say glad he's back its 2 weeks people Edit: glad to know all of you have a serious abandoned ment complex and may need to see a therapist
bro spent more time discussing why he doesn't like this singular enemy out of everything in the entire game for 18 minutes, more then he spent talking about how to literally ban Mario from running. This dude is not a chad. He is a gigachad
One detail on the Sherms that I like is the inclusion of the small loops mounted on the front and back. These were a part of real Shermans and it allowed them to be hoisted by a crane onto a ship where they would travel to wherever they were needed
I actually really like the tanks :O I always grab one whenever I can and drive them around as much as possible. The controls are _much_ better using two separated joycon motion controls, which I always use
4:47 I wasn't expecting to get so emotional here. Some people may just see a simple change between two songs, but others, like myself, know more about what the second track represents. I won't spoil anything for people who are still playing Origami King, but for those of you who have played it, you know what I'm talking about.
I think the tank actually controls like this because you can aim horizontally by moving the tank, but that doesn't really work when aiming vertically bc, well, the tank is locked to the ground. It starts out slow so you have some fine control to hit targets that are close, but it then accelerates so that you can actually turn around quickly after a brief delay.
Honestly has nothing to do with this video, but he mentioned it around 13:15 and it made me realize, can we just get a thrown cap as a part of Mario’s base moveset from here on out? Like even without the possessing stuff? Odyssey is the best feeling 3D Mario game like… ever. Cause Mario just feels so damn good to control and jump around as. And Mario always has a hat, so it’s not even like the gimmick has to be specific to Odyssey. But alas, Nintendo will never listen to its fans.
@@d3-penguin954 i woke up at ike 7am, hopped on my nintendo switch with mario odyssey and started trying to the boos for like 30 minutes, finally i did it it took like 30 minutes or longer idk
Another factor to account for with the bad aiming is the crosshair movement from a HUD standpoint: When looking left and right, it always stays perfectly centered, but when aiming up or down, the crosshair also moves up or down on your screen, possibly being the very reason for the asymmetric speed of the axes.
I'm really glad I'm not the only one who dreads using tanks and even thought the motion controls just outright didn't work. How does that happen?! Also, really great that you're back on UA-cam man. It's been great seeing you in my sub box again!
1:06 "Also, um, this video isn't really, like, a clever meta-commentary about anything of value, like the cat suit video was about Nintendo's community management or anything, it's honestly just me ranting about tanks for fifteen minutes" xD and I'm glad to listen to Ceave rant about tanks for fifteen minutes :D
What makes you think that? On the lower hull you can clearly see the classic sherman rounded construction, not something found in soviet tanks (the roundess of the KV series is much less pronounced and don't try to argue that's some early IS series design, it clearly isn't). The turret is a bit russian like, because of the mantlet but that's it, I wouldn't call it "clearly a soviet design". Seems like they've seen some pictures of the most well known WWII tanks and based their own creation on that...
It's even worse because it's called "sherm" in various languages. In Italian it's a pun ("Carlo armato"), it's also a pun in French ("Charlu"), but almost everyone else has "sherm" or a variant of "sherm". They obviously went for "generic tank look", but it looks Japanese to me. Bolted construction, big mushroom-shaped cupola, that bolted gun mount, sloped panels on the corners of the hull, it looks like a cartoony Type 97 and Type 3. Only the rounded front could be a reference to the Sherman's differential covers.
12:00 the 3 bullet limit is actually a throwback to the old “Wii Play” game, where the tank mini game only allowed 3 bullets per tank on the field at once.
For real, motion controls was a huge part of why I kinda like skyrim for the switch more than PC. It feels so natural to rough aim with the controls and fine adjust with motion controls
I'd like to add a #4. spread reticule too big. The tank clearly shoots in the middle every time. The 2 curved lines on the sides of where you're intended to aim are meant to show where your aim can hit from an FPS standpoint. If your reticule is that big, I expect one of 3 things. A: a shotgun-type spread. B: a random spread like with an AK-47. C: a huge explosion that damages everything in the radius. The tank has none of these things, which means the reticule should be much much smaller. Thanks for reading and have a great day! Love the vids.
I am SO GLAD that you enjoy motion controls as well. I love the feeling of aiming in BotW and I always hate when people just assume that motion controls = bad. I think so many games could be improved with them and I think that there could be amazing games which use motion controls as the main controls, especially with the strides that are being seen in the use of physics that we see in VR games and indie games. More motion controls please :)
Ceave, you have to stop, if you keep massacaring power-ups/captures like this you will end up making a video on the blue shell from new super mario bros
I'm glad that everyone in this comment section is very supportive about this man rambling as to why tanks are broken in a videogame about an Italian dude possessing other beings
That vertical axis being faster than the horizontal axis is a problem that splatoon has, I hate that you can't change the x and y sensitivity seperately
12:20 Finally a question I can answer! There is actually a good reason why the shots are limited, I would even say that's *surprisingly* simple. Basically, loading assets is really expensive on performances. You have to load a model, apply textures, render everything, apply some behaviour scripts to it. A lot of things that are insanely complex and will definitely hurt your CPU. If each bullet was a different, new entity, the tank would also tank the game's FPS. Giving the player a button that does a lot of different, heavy calculations that ALSO make enemies explode is a bad idea, because realistically, everyone would spam that button, which would make the game a laggy, unfunny experience. So here is the twist: you can only fire 3 bullets, because only 3 bullets exist. If you were to fire at the sky, wait, then fire again, you would actually see the same bullets be fired again. They were just teleported to you, then made invisible, then teleported back to you, ready to be fired again. Instead of having a lot of different new entities, there are only 3 that are recycled over and over again. Teleporting them, and making them (in)visible is just a matter of a few easy steps. You need to change 3 variables for the position, and then toggle whether or not the bullets are rendered. Compare that to creating a whole new entity, and you can already see how it is more optimized. However, that also proves once again that the tanks were poorly implemented. To access the different bullets to recycle game objects, you have to put them into a list (or an array) to keep a reference to them. An array has a limited, set size you can't change, so I guess Nintendo went that way, with an array size of 3. Now, I don't know exactly the difference performance-wise between accessing a list and accessing an array, so I don't know if it's a good choice in that context. The fact they willingly decided that you could only have 3 bullets at once, instead of increasing the array size so it could contain enough bullets to make it so the first bullet in the array can be recycled as soon as the last bullet was used is a proof they decided on purpose to tale a lazy approach on this topic. (Also, before someone asks, if you use a list, you can actually make the list empty at first, and then each time the player shoots a bullet while there is no other available bullet in the recycle list, you can make a new one. Eventually, the list will reach a cap where no more bullets can be added and therefore, there is no more cost on performance while also not limiting the player in a dumb, arbitrary way). I give this lazy approach a single fuzzy. Really disappointing to see Nintendo go the easy way instead of adding the overheat mechanic as a better, more visual and actually good mechanic (like seeing the tank going red gradually if you shoot too much in a short succession, while also giving the player the ability to shoot forever until the overheating happens).
As a veteran player of said shooty shooty bang bang games, there _is_ actually a reason to have the X and Y axis sensitivity be set different, and it's because of how imprecise using a stick is as you yourself highlighted. _HOWEVER_, in those games it's usually the _Y_ axis that is less sensitive, because you're usually fighting enemies on the same horizontal plane as you, or at least they are themselves grouped together at similar heights. The Y axis is made slower so that when you try to move your view horizontally, since being exactly 100% perfectly straight with your fingers on a circle pad is not an exact science, your camera doesn't go all over the place. It also makes it slightly easier to land headshots you don't need that much distance to aim up a few degrees, vs. needing to make wide swings to get the enemies in your sights. It's a compensation for the lack of a more precise tool like, say, a mouse, but of course even mouse aiming games tend to have slightly lower values for the Y axis, since again you use the x axis way more and generally need the Y for more situational, more precise shots. I dunno what Odyssey was thinking when it made the X axis the least sensitive one, for even in the sections designed specifically for the tank you usually need your aim level for certain heights.
The only complaint I really resonate with in this video is how the tanks freeze to shoot. I never had a problem with motion controls, so I never used the stick. Maybe the three shot cool down caused me to take a few hits, but I didn't know that function even existed till seeing this video. I still think the Sherms were one of my favorite parts of the game, even if they had some mild flaws. That's not to say that Ceave is lying or anything of that sort, just that I found the tanks to be quite fun. As far as the larger conversation goes, it's possible nintendo could've done more to make each capture a deeper experience, but I think it would've been to the game's detriment. I played for the first time fairly recently, and found that Mario's controls alone were overwhelming for a while. Having only a couple of functions for each capture made them easily digestible and fit into a tighter puzzle. I always knew exactly what I could rely on to solve a problem. Each enemy had a unique design that made it memorable and highly specialized, and a large array of possibilities would've overcomplicated simple tasks. Sure, each capture could only do so much. But the game intends you to survive off your surroundings, not get cozy in one capture forever, and certainly not waste time practicing the trickier controls. You're supposed to be hopping in and out of captures with some degree of quickness, capitalizing on a useful function then moving on. More complexity would mean more time spent bonking, dying, and getting so attached to your Jetpack Goomba with samurai swords that you can't ditch it for an Uproot. You spend most of the game as Mario, giving you plenty of time to master his powerful moveset. However, you just don't have that kind of time with the captures. You have to hop into the Uproot and start attacking the UFO! Simple enemies maintains the pacing of the level. If nintendo cut the roster to create more diverse movesets for each capture, it would've been way too much for new players, and honestly leave the world feeling somewhat bland. I bet many of us noticed deep down that Bowser's kingdom was kind of deviod with Pokios as the only residents. It was still fun! But if every kingdom were just Mario and the equally complicated Jetpack Samurai Goomba, each area would feel less like an ecosystem and more like Bowser's Empty Kingdom. As is, most levels have enough diversity to really feel immersive and alive. Further more, Mario's incredible moveset feels really good to use, but also enables some mild, but still acceptable levels of game breaking. If each capture had as many options as the main character, nintendo would've had a much harder time designing "closed ended" levels. By that I mean that there are specifically intended strategies to beating each level, and you're clearly not supposed to utilize the powers of one enemy elsewhere in ways that could make a hard problem simple. Finding little sequence breaks like that can feel fun and liberating for the player, but at the end of the day, this is a platformer, not an open world RPG. Both generas clearly have shown themselves to be valid but separate ways of having fun. Nintendo did a fantastic job with "open ended" problems in Breath of the Wild, where the player could find any one of hundreds of ways to fix an issue. But again, this is a platformer, a genera where the players have universally agreed that we should let the game devs railroad us into their singular solutions to problems. Because it can be just be as fun as totally unrestricted freedom! Getting back to the main point, keeping each character on a tighter leash helped box them in their own subtle corrals. That way, Nintendo wouldn't have to deal with rogue players flying their Jetpack Goomba from the other side of the map all the way over top of their carefully calibrated parkour course. So to sum up, Nintendo did the smart thing by giving us a huge cast of memorable captures, and only simple moves for each one. It helps us find the solution to problems without struggle, kept up the fast paced gameplay, made each kingdom more vibrant, and made level design far less complicated. This all comes down to Nintendo having to force feed us the less deadly poison. Comparing to Zelda again, everybody hates that their weapons break, but most people nowadays realize it was a necessary evil in order to, among other things, get players to branch out on their weapon selection. Similarly, Nintendo gave us some less fun individual captures for overall vastly improved levels. At the beginning of the video, Ceave mentioned he didn't have any grand implications when criticizing the half baked tanks, as opposed to how he's used the cat suit as an example of Nintendo's trashy glitch policy in the past. However, at the end he applied his critical mind to the rest of the game, and correctly realized Nintendo didn't do a ton with each capture. From there, it seems he takes a forgivable leap in logic and assumes the game would've been better if each capture were more developed, even suggesting that fewer captures could've enabled this. That leads me to believe the end of this video was kind of off the cuff, because I'm sure a clever guy like Ceave would've come to many of the same concussions I did under a little bit of analysis. All in all it was still an entertaining video! I hope to see more like it! (Now please like my comment everybody, I don't want to have written this for nothing.)
@@watsgoinonhere1 The first has already been solved in the recent games where the HMs have way better replacements or just straight up aren't in the game. The second one, well, it's a RPG. It's like a comparison of team sports (I couldn't thimk of a better comparison but hopefully it's understandable) and something like chess. While the point of the former is to act, chess uses the same type of idea as RPGs: strategy. The showcase of skill is by strategizing in the best way you can to defeat your opponent's team, as opposed to an actual, real time fight. The premise of clicking a move and trying to predict what your opponent will do or even choosing what moves you're gonna use in the first place, while trying to take account for most situations you may face. While some people would enjoy a new, action based system, the turn based one is really enjoyable for most fans (at least, I think so). Having different things according to the scenary you're in sounds hella cool tho, and I'd be really interested in seeing what they could pull off with a battle system like that in some sort of spin off or even an alternate type of battle as long as the original system stays.
My teacher in 6th grade got mad at me and said "Zach Sherman, huh? Are you named after the Sherman tank? Because the tank was a failure." Thanks for proving Mr. Pelicano right, Ceave.
I am surprised that you did not talk about the part that frustrates me the most about the tank controls: the shooting button is using the same thumb as the aiming joystick, meaning that you cannot shoot as soon as you stopped aiming with it. You need to move your thumb, press the Y button, then move it back to the joystick in case you missed the shot. To me the solution to that issue would be to use a button "assigned" to another finger (I really dislike the "press the joystick" button, it always mess with my joystick aiming), like a shoulder button, even if I can see how that conflicts with the overall powerup design philosophy of Mario games.
5:41 In my opinion, the tanks targeting is implemented badly just because that is how the camera in this game works. When you play as mario and rotate the camera around, it first starts slowly and then accellerates, which is good for a camera of a platformer. But when entering tank mode, this behavior is not overridden and just leaved as-is.
The whole thing about captures reminds me of a PS2 game called "Crash of the Titans" that is built around captures, and those captures actually feel quite good to use.
I played through the whole of Ocarinda of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D using motion controls for the bow. It's fucking amazing to use them once you get a handle of what to do.
I’m very interested to see how “the tanks in Mario Odyssey are bad” becomes a 20 minute video
Well, it is actually surprisingly simple
You gave him an idea, Hoo-ray
Next video, Soo I was scripting a video on the ground in Mario bros u, and then... i started scripting the part about grass, and then I stopped scripting the part about grass
I like your profile picture, Jonathan boi
@@notregisteredname7393 You could actually make the grass in NSMBU into a video, because it always bugged me how the grass in the background didn't match that in the foreground, and I'd like to see an in-depht explanation on why that is.
You didn’t even mention that the crosshair is so large that it’s effectively useless for aiming
Yeah I hated that
also that in order to shoot you have to take your thumb off the joystick so you can no longer adjust the shot for just the split second before firing which makes any kind of moving target way harder to hit. it ends up feeling similar to how input lag feels to me, and you're essentially forced to use the motion controls that feel like they do nothing to make any last moment adjustments
420 likes
@@dragonbanana1 nice pfp
@@dragonbanana1 or just press rhe button using another finger
"It's honestly just me ranting about tanks for over fifteen minutes."
This is the quality content we subscribed for.
And glad you're not dead. I'd thought you'd accidentally touched a coin.
@@theAstarrr That doesn't prevent him from falling for a shiny, yet deadly coin. You shouldn't underestimate these evil things.
Didn't notice how lucky I am. I am allergic to chocolate, so I never touched those chocolate golden coins.
A shiny, yet *deadly* coin
Ok what is his accent? I don't mind it usually but the character prununciation kinda bugs me
BAXTER MADORE oh ok thanks it's just usually I'm fine with it and it's kinda calming but idk the way he says character just kinda like I don't know.
Of course the other issue with the tank "overheating" as an excuse for the shot limit is that you can spam shots into a wall and not overheat, but you do overheat from firing three shots into the distance, which you can do comparatively slowly. And that's just conceptually inconsistent and silly.
It's similar to the fire flower
@@alignstars2962 Yeah, so Nintendo is really trying to tell us that the Switch isn't powerful enough to process more than 3 missiles 😂
note, not sarcasm I'm just joking
I swear, every "Pew pew" in this video had a different emotion attached to it
Can someone leave timestamps pls
@@thomascanning1127 I watched it in 4x speed so I might have missed some, here's what I found 3:03 3:15 10:32 11:12
@@bradyk6017 12:08
@@Chad_Eldridge There isn't actually anything to see, I was just making a silly joke about the way Ceave says "pew pew"
"I've never drove a real tank before, in fact I do not know anyone who owns a tank"
Ceave trying to cover up his war crimes I see
You can't hide forever
*we know what you did*
Ceave Gaming also defeats monsters when pretty cure aren't around.
@@teamawesomeness7137
By Monster you mean Gavrilo Princip ?
@@mohdadeeb1829 no. I mean stuff like zakenna, uzaina, kowaina, etc.
@@teamawesomeness7137
But he killed Your Emperor
@@mohdadeeb1829 I had no emperor in the first place
“I’ve never driven a tank in real life” hmmmmmmm sounds like something someone who’s driven a tank before would say
*(edited)*
That sounds to me like the exact opposite of what someone who's driven a tank would say if you ask me. If I had ever driven a tank, I assure you I would find any excuse possible to share that information, much like I do with having fired a Mk 19 grenade launcher. Because I have; I've fired a Mk 19 grenade launcher, just so you know.
@@saucesaucesaucesauce1380 Let people have their typos.
Austria has mandatory conscription , that means he drove tanks at some part of his life
SelectorOfSouls nah dude at first I forgot the last 2 words
The worst part about tanks is that since they replicate a first-person shooter, my mind instinctively uses ZR to shoot, and I release the capture instead
nice pfp
SAME
I'm guessing ZR is the default "shoot" button in a lot of FPS games? I haven't really played anything other than Splatoon with a controller, so I never really developed a mindset for what a "shoot" button would be.
This DOES make me realize an old PS2 game I played as a kid was trying for that... with a sword of all things!
No father figure profile picture
Whenever ceave tries to do a ranking, he makes a side video about how something is dumb.
This is only the second time.
Guinea Pigs Are Cute party pooper
@@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566 "if i had a nickel for every time Ceave made a ranting vid because he was making a tier-list and gound something super dumb , i would have 2 nickels"
"thats not much , but its weird that it happened twice"
@@marcusmendesmontano7167 ay nice phineas and ferb reference
Xetheon Sounds like this:
Double D in Ed’s story: Blah, Blah Blah Blah! Yab Yab blah blah, dripple dripple!
Ceave always sounds professional whenever he's talking about games. That is until he starts saying stuff like this. XD
2:55
shooty shooty bang bang
Or "I don't need realistic controls for my mind controlled mustache tank"
Ceave: *rants about how Tanks are dumb*
Hammer Bros: Finally! A worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!
Yes
Ceave: tanks are dumb
hammer bros: I'm I a joke to you
Tanks only have 20 minutes
The video of Hammer Bros would be 4 parts with 40 minutes each
Still not worthy :]
don't like hammer bros in 2d games, but odyssey made them much better
I thought Ceave hated Sledge Bros.
2:43 What was that sound!!!!? It freaked me out, sounded like something in my house. Thought there was something inside (using earbuds)
same
It freaked me out, i had a heart attack
That shit almost gave me a heart attack.
I swear I didn't hear that until I clicked on the time. And I watched that part of the video twice.
I was searching the comment section for this! I completely agree!
Ceave: It's honestly just me ranting about tanks for over 15 min
Me: thats the content i came for
we're at the perfect number, don't mess this up.
You missed the 'awesome' afterwards. Perfection.
That's.........why I'm here
"i dont even know anyone who owns a REAL tank"
the fact that ceave even felt they had to say said that makes me believe they do in fact know someone who owns a tank
Yeah, that's how it sounded to most people XD
Maybe, hitler?
It’s not that hard to own a tank if you have the money for it. In Texas you can own one, it just has to have it’s weapons disabled so it can’t shoot anything
The USA does
@@jebalitabb8228 Weapons laws are much different here in the EU and propably in Switzerland as well. Here in Germany only the military owns tanks and the soldiers have to get an extra drivers licence. There is a military base near my village, so tanks with "drivers school" written on them used to drive though my street.
Everyone: YESS 3D ALL STARS IS COMING OUT TOMORROW!!!
Ceave: Everything wrong with the tanks in Super Mario Oddysey
glad you’re back Ceave
Yeah I'm glad hes back too
Never change
I agree completely. But still....YESS 3D ALL STARS IS COMING OUT TOMORROW!!!
I'm glad Ceave gaming finally uploaded after all these months
Wow, 3 emulations for $60, how epic
I haven't thought about Odyssey in forever, but I can viscerally feel the frustration of trying to aim in that tank 😰
Ceave: I'm going to rant about tanks for no reason
Me with my limited break: this sounds like a good use of my life
Bro this is so real
69th like. Nice 👍
Yes
Me right now
I know right
tank: * gets fuzzy coupon * tank: * shoots 3 pew pews in the air in celebration * yay i'm gonna go redeem it! Wait , i can't move
I'm guessing the axis problems with the tank aim is due to the game engine, which makes me think the tanks were added later in development. In 3rd person platformers the camera follows the character's movement (the important part of a 3d platformer) so if you really want to push the camera one way, you would need less speed because it's already turning a bit on its own to follow the character's movement. Even more amplified by how far the camera is from the character, and the fact that even in the most vertical-focused platformers you'll be doing a lot of horizontal shenanigans to move vertically - simply because the thing holding you down and that makes the game hard, gravity, is going vertically. So, the vertical camera is less restricted because it has to move far less, and if you * want * to move it it needs more speed.
Now imagine a perfectly tweaked camera for this system, that works flawlessly for a 3rd person platformer, and stick it close to the character instead, and make it a prominent factor with aim rather than something that is secondary to the main movement of the character: no matter how much they tweak it it won't work. They'd need it to be a separate camera system, which requires more time and more possible bugs to debug. Either they didn't consider it worth the time investment - which isn't very Nintendo, especially with how much effort they put into Odyssey - or the tanks were added late in development and, since the aim just felt "a little off" they stuck with it instead of spending time making the perfect system and risking more bugs and dev time.
EDIT: the fact that aim is broken even with motion controls makes me think even more that this was a late addition.
I never thought about cameras this way. It was really interesting
I wish I would put some time and effort into reading all this.
@@amazingfireboy1848 tl;dr the camera in most platformers, this included, has special tweaks making it to rotate when the player rotates, but only on the horizontal axis. i suspect the tanks were added later in development both due to the buggy gyro controls, and the fact that the camera behaves as if it was a platformer camera but set to fps.
@@raedev thx
However both things shouldn't be related. It shouldn't be that hard to add a second camera with different settings. And it's not that hard to make the transition seamless either, simply switch to the camera once the transition is done, and the image gets close enough. Even then, what's stopping Nintendo from giving a single camera more than 1 "mode"? No idea.
Half of his videos now are just gonna be:
"I was writing a script for a video and then I came across this:"
(World of tanks ad plays at the beginning)
Ceave: "So, I never liked the tanks..."
Haha
UA-cam ad recommendation go BRRRRRRRRRR
Ceave: _puts "Tanks" in title and sets category as Gaming_
World of Tanks: "It's free real estate."
All the tank nerds (maybe including me): now what kind of tank is it? M60? ISU-152? etc. etc.
Edit: I just realized it's supposed to reference an M4 Sherman
@@ELing-ib1ki It's not inspired by any real life tank
Of course the boxy hull could be reminiscent of a Tiger, the square turret might be inspired by one of the british cruisers (maybe something like a Cromwell turret, which is in line with the riveted armour), but the whole gun mantlet assembly is more similar to an early Sherman or something like an A-13 or even a Pz IV.
But TBH it still looks like a boxified 105mm Sherman
There's another problem with the tank that only affects a minority of games--myself included. See, when I'm playing a 3D game with a 3rd person camera, I need to play with the X-axis inverted. I think it's because in 3rd person, my brain perceives the camera as a physical object that's orbiting behind Mario. When I press left, the CAMERA should move left, which allows me to see to the right. (This used to be the default for 3D Mario games back in the day btw. I'm pissed they changed it in All Stars and didn't give us the option to change it back.) BUT, when I'm playing a game in 1st person (or over-the-shoulder), I need the X-axis UNinverted, because now my brain perceives the camera as the character's eyes. If I press left, my CHARACTER should swivel left, allowing me to see to the left.
Nintendo did not give us camera settings for both 3rd person AND 1st person. This absolutely RUINED the tanks for me. When I played the game casually, I dreaded using the tanks, because I had to either deal with the backwords-ass controls, or pause the game and change the camera settings, just for a few minutes at most, and then change them back once I was out of the tank. Now, I've been speedrunning the game for close to two years, and I've begrudgingly gotten used to the backwords-ass tank camera controls (because of course Mecha-Wiggler is one of the few bosses in the game that you can't skip), but this is absurd. This should be considered an accessibility problem. I know I'm in a minority, but I'm certainly not the only one who has this problem. Everyone has a different idea of what feels "normal" for camera controls.
Yes I can't play Breath of the Wild without inverted camera.
This is both exceptionally interesting and makes perfect sense. I've never thought of it like that.
The game series "metro" does the X Y sensitivity difference on purpose to make the game feel claustrophobic to great effect. It doesn't fit into a mario game tho
Is metro that one game in gamepass?
Wait...metro...METRO KINGDOM!
@@Rosie_Cozy he's talking about the post apocalyptic games Metro: 2033, Metro: Last Light, and Metro: Exodus.
Honestly in general I think the X direction should be slightly faster than the Y direction, since there's more to cover in the X direction than the Y direction. Obviously don't make the difference jarring, just very slight
TheRealWilliamWhite that’s what I’m talking about
Ceave: I'm just gonna rant about tanks for 20 minutes
Everyone: *_that's... why I'm here_*
Hello there
@@chillinsquirtle *_G E N E R A L K E N O B I_*
Ceeve - "This is a 15 min rant about why i hate tanks"
Me - perfection
Actually 18 minutes.
Me: "hmm, not sure this topic is interesting enough to last 18 minutes"
*sees it's from Ceave*
Me: "oh, this'll be very interesting"
Ceave: I don't know anyone who owns a tank
Me: Wow,
we're basically the same person
#relatable
I can't relate
I always felt like the tanks were clunky and didn’t flow with the gameplay as well as other captures. It’s nice to see you make an analysis on them.
"it's honestly just me ranting about tanks for 15 minutes" Rant away my man rant away.......
Ceave confirmed to be one of those guys who just bomb arrows everything in BOTW
Really, when it is isn’t raining, why not? BOTW discourages you from fighting a lot, like the most in Zelda.
Just use Magnesis and throw metal in their face. Zero resource consumption
I just refreshed youtube and this showed up! I'm so glad you're back, Ceave.
Same
Same
I wanna like but you have 69 likes😢
Same. This guy is pretty much the only channel where I like the videos if the are longer than 15 minutes.
He’s been back for a week or two
Ceave: "The tanks are a reference to a WW2 tank, which is a weird reference for a Mario game."
BDG: *flies over a banned by the UN trap in Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2*
Breath of the Wild in a Ceave video?
Now that's what I wanna see!
not first
Also God of War 4.
*YES*
Ceave talking about tanks
WW1 Flashbacks
That would be incredible
I would actually love to hear an analysis of the problematic aspects of the other captures! I think there's a lot of them that we all understand don't function well, but it's hard to figure out what part of them is the problem.
me: clicks on the video
world of tanks ad: *oh hello i hear you wanted tanks*
War Thunder sponsorships: h e n l o
@Raiden Lowry same
Nintendo: “Play the nintended way”
Also niitntedo: “horrible tank controls, that’s what we want!
The controls are copy/paste from Banjo Tooie's egg-aim attack
@@TaIathar i dont think they copy pasted code from the nintendo 64
_"Did you mean _*_unintended_*_ ?"_
NIITNTEDO
17:40
I love how he puts these little details in the video.
They make the video richer, and also much more fun to watch.
Thank you for the quality, thanks for improving my quality of life, stay safe.
P.S. Loved the spelling corrections XD
He gets so mad that he misspelled his words
The last thing that makes them dumb, that you forgot to mention: You have to press X or Y to fire... but to aim you have to use the right analog stick (or the bad gyro). What are you supposed to do? Snap your index finger over the front of the controller to press x? I'm using my thumb to aim, I can't use it to press X! So you kinda have to stop aiming for a split second before you can fire. WHY??? Why not just bind it to right trigger like EVERY SHOOTING GAME EVER?? "because that kicks you out of the capture" Then make an exception for this one! The camera is different, the mechanics are different, MAKE THE BUTTONS DIFFERENT!!
Nintendo doesn't like making kids use guns, that's why the labo be gun has a trigger on the back
@@Chad_Eldridge in a simpler time, yes
that makes them speechleas? Why can't you move your forefinger down?
3:04 "for a bittle lit"
-ceave gaming, 2020
I heard it too XD
Incredible
i thought i was the only one who noticed lol
I read your comment as “for a little bit” and had to listen to 3:04 to realize he said it wrong and I read it wrong
Yeah, he says that
2:56 *Shooty Shooty Bang Bang Controls* XD
I love you Ceave, never change.
3:04 Bittle Lit has returned
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but going into your settings and changing aim sensitivity to high greatly helps the gyro aim controls for the tank. The wiggler fight especially is significantly better because you can actually aim up right like you describe in the first point of the video
15:15 C’mon, Ceave, you really need to buy more Fuzzies if you know you’ll be doing another video like this. I’ve heard they’ll be coming back in stock soon.
They already are back in stock on buydozfuzzies.com
@@mansifacio5458 You are lieing, this website isn't reachable!
@@PhilippHorwat Only the pure of heart can see it.
Quarentine man. Everything stopped
Fuzzies are limited run, after March next year they're gone forever.
Omg when i saw “aiming bat” on the sinful flipchart i paused and was like scratchin my head then i got over it and then u fix it im dead
He also fixed "kardinal"
Yeah it’s weird
@@Aostrele Weird? More like comidocal genius
@@shadtowa8986 wot
Gee, *tank* god Ceave came back.
edit: *Tanks* for the likes, but this pun still leaves *mush room* for improvement.
Matija Toskic His being gone was Odd, y’see?
Tanks for the pun
I sea what u did there
@@DS-tv2fi we need him to free the world(3d world hehe)
@Kirbo Da Boi oh no
is he upsetti?
2:40 absolutely terrified me with headphones.
Everything wrong with tanks in one word:
*everything*
Existing
*sin count: 1*
@@michaelabate7230 *sin count: 2*
everything wrong with tanks in two words:
no thanks
*ding sound effect*
“It’s just me ranting about tanks for 15 minutes”
*likes the video*
Ceave: Nooo, you can't just ignore my inputs!
Tank: haha tracks go chhhhhhh.
... I'm not complaining, but ... how in the heck do you have 22 subs? I'm baffled, but impressed.
@@austinfletchermusic I've been active in youtube comments for the past 7 years. I've just slowly gained like 1 sub randomly every 3-4 months~
@@ethohalfslab Well, good for you! Good luck on getting more, I guess!
The tanks were my least -favorite capture. You go from running around, jumping off walls and all that, to capturing a tank, then the entire flow comes to a screeching halt as you have to stop and relearn how the tank operates every time.
So, in regards to a lot of these points it feels like most of the tank's issues come from compromises more than anything. Specifically,
Reticle moves vertically on the screen instead of staying centered, leading to mismatched X/Y aiming -> this was probably to prevent extreme camera angles or even worse versions of making the tank transparent as shown in the boss fight
Aim acceleration on the horizontal axis only -> aim acceleration is pretty bad in general, but with no control to aim down the sights, the same camera input has to be used for precise aiming and turns of up to 180 degrees. It would take forever to turn if it was slow, and be impossible to aim if it was fast
Gyro control failures -> no design excuse for this one, but if they had to tack gyro on late in development it could certainly cause these problems
Shooting interrupts movement -> usually used to add to the sense of impact of heavy attacks. In the worst case, an attempt at realism gone very wrong.
Bullets travel too slowly -> Mario's bullets travel at about the same speed as enemy tanks' bullets
Max 3 bullets on screen -> this is usually either a technical or balance issue, though technical is unlikely given the ability to spam bullets into walls and spawn particles. It would be an odd choice for balance with the exception of the boss fight, which would be trivial to spam down without a shot limit
I don't disagree that the design is bad, though. A lot of these that appear to be compromises also seem unpolished to me, and it definitely could have used more time and consideration. The weird thing to me is that they don't seem to be patching gyro..
This comment is amazing
I wonder why they made different aiming on axis but didn't made separated crosshair for point where cannon aimed so player have comfortable aiming but have to wait till cannon turn around, very common way to handle aiming from slow things in FPS.
I accidently hurt the like button, but don't worry! I put a bandage on it.
"My least favorite tank in any mario game"
*Laughs in SMB3 W8 tank level*
Hey Ceave, I’ve always wondered: where do you get all your fuzzy beetles? Aren’t they hard to move around, since you take damage if you touch them? They seem very hard to move in the games.
Yall don't need to say glad he's back its 2 weeks people
Edit: glad to know all of you have a serious abandoned ment complex and may need to see a therapist
We have trust issues
Factual information
Ceave: - posts a new video 2 weeks after the previous one -
Everyone: Do my eyes de-Ceave me?
Nothing wrong with people getting excited. It's all good. Doesn't hurt you any.
he already knows we're glad
bro spent more time discussing why he doesn't like this singular enemy out of everything in the entire game for 18 minutes, more then he spent talking about how to literally ban Mario from running. This dude is not a chad. He is a gigachad
7:00 surely he ended up running out of stamina, falling and losing all his lives.
Rip Ceave
text *(edited)*
One detail on the Sherms that I like is the inclusion of the small loops mounted on the front and back. These were a part of real Shermans and it allowed them to be hoisted by a crane onto a ship where they would travel to wherever they were needed
I actually really like the tanks :O I always grab one whenever I can and drive them around as much as possible. The controls are _much_ better using two separated joycon motion controls, which I always use
4:47 I wasn't expecting to get so emotional here. Some people may just see a simple change between two songs, but others, like myself, know more about what the second track represents.
I won't spoil anything for people who are still playing Origami King, but for those of you who have played it, you know what I'm talking about.
then what song is it?
I think the tank actually controls like this because you can aim horizontally by moving the tank, but that doesn't really work when aiming vertically bc, well, the tank is locked to the ground. It starts out slow so you have some fine control to hit targets that are close, but it then accelerates so that you can actually turn around quickly after a brief delay.
Honestly has nothing to do with this video, but he mentioned it around 13:15 and it made me realize, can we just get a thrown cap as a part of Mario’s base moveset from here on out? Like even without the possessing stuff? Odyssey is the best feeling 3D Mario game like… ever. Cause Mario just feels so damn good to control and jump around as. And Mario always has a hat, so it’s not even like the gimmick has to be specific to Odyssey. But alas, Nintendo will never listen to its fans.
Well the problem is the hat wouldn’t be able to be recalled or stay in place or anything like that
@ In a world with sentient mushrooms and dinosaurs… I don’t think that kind of logic is necessary for an epic mid-air moveset.
4:36 Finally i realized why it took me 30 minutes to beat the mecha-wiggler
30 minutes?
@@d3-penguin954 i woke up at ike 7am, hopped on my nintendo switch with mario odyssey and started trying to the boos for like 30 minutes, finally i did it it took like 30 minutes or longer idk
MartinZ i beat the mecha-wiggled in like 5-10 minutes. It was easy for me to aim
@@OwlpoAnimations Is that you trying to flex or something
Another factor to account for with the bad aiming is the crosshair movement from a HUD standpoint: When looking left and right, it always stays perfectly centered, but when aiming up or down, the crosshair also moves up or down on your screen, possibly being the very reason for the asymmetric speed of the axes.
Ceave: It's me ranting for 15 minutes.
Me: I'll take 20.
I'm really glad I'm not the only one who dreads using tanks and even thought the motion controls just outright didn't work. How does that happen?! Also, really great that you're back on UA-cam man. It's been great seeing you in my sub box again!
I guess you could say that for Ceave, the tanks were super..... Odd to see
ha
ha
ha
👏👏 *Sarcastic clapping* 👏👏
It's *odd I see* that you don't know how to pronounce odyssey
I'm sorry about the dislike. Your joke was that bad.
@The Skelebot how to get murdered online 101
1:06 "Also, um, this video isn't really, like, a clever meta-commentary about anything of value, like the cat suit video was about Nintendo's community management or anything, it's honestly just me ranting about tanks for fifteen minutes"
xD and I'm glad to listen to Ceave rant about tanks for fifteen minutes :D
The real problem is that the tanks are called "sherms" when they clearly are of Soviet design
I also hate that he calls the shells "missiles" or "bullets" ;)
What makes you think that?
On the lower hull you can clearly see the classic sherman rounded construction, not something found in soviet tanks (the roundess of the KV series is much less pronounced and don't try to argue that's some early IS series design, it clearly isn't).
The turret is a bit russian like, because of the mantlet but that's it, I wouldn't call it "clearly a soviet design". Seems like they've seen some pictures of the most well known WWII tanks and based their own creation on that...
It's even worse because it's called "sherm" in various languages. In Italian it's a pun ("Carlo armato"), it's also a pun in French ("Charlu"), but almost everyone else has "sherm" or a variant of "sherm".
They obviously went for "generic tank look", but it looks Japanese to me. Bolted construction, big mushroom-shaped cupola, that bolted gun mount, sloped panels on the corners of the hull, it looks like a cartoony Type 97 and Type 3. Only the rounded front could be a reference to the Sherman's differential covers.
@@jesuizanmich is it really Carlo Armato???? Ahahahahaha that's so funny
...And are driven by someone who "should" be driving an Axis tank.
12:00 the 3 bullet limit is actually a throwback to the old “Wii Play” game, where the tank mini game only allowed 3 bullets per tank on the field at once.
How does Ceave not want WW3 to happen?
Ceave: Well it's actually surprisingly simple
For real, motion controls was a huge part of why I kinda like skyrim for the switch more than PC. It feels so natural to rough aim with the controls and fine adjust with motion controls
Ok sorry I’m just gonna say that : cool to see you back!
He's been back for a month
Yeah but not consistently
Sorry? For what?
Ceave has been gone for quite a while until he finally uploaded
I'd like to add a #4. spread reticule too big. The tank clearly shoots in the middle every time. The 2 curved lines on the sides of where you're intended to aim are meant to show where your aim can hit from an FPS standpoint. If your reticule is that big, I expect one of 3 things. A: a shotgun-type spread. B: a random spread like with an AK-47. C: a huge explosion that damages everything in the radius. The tank has none of these things, which means the reticule should be much much smaller. Thanks for reading and have a great day! Love the vids.
First thing wrong with tanks “sherm”
I am SO GLAD that you enjoy motion controls as well. I love the feeling of aiming in BotW and I always hate when people just assume that motion controls = bad. I think so many games could be improved with them and I think that there could be amazing games which use motion controls as the main controls, especially with the strides that are being seen in the use of physics that we see in VR games and indie games.
More motion controls please :)
Ceave Gaming is back with another strong upload boiiiiii. Also, I miss Super Mario Odyssey so much
That 2:50 sound was scary AF. Great video as always Ceave
2:43 this sound legit scared the soul out of me
Man the "rusty box" sound effect scared the shit out of me with headphones lol. Tought someone broke into my house or something.
Everyone is talking about sherm tank but not about how he used bomb arrows to kill a boar
The answer is surprisingly simple
Cleave: IM GONNA RANT ABOUT TANKS CAUSE OF HOW BAD THEY ARE
us: now THIS is quality
Ceave, you have to stop, if you keep massacaring power-ups/captures like this you will end up making a video on the blue shell from new super mario bros
Fine by me
Quagsire
The blue shell is actually awesome
David Trujillo *no*
hwanhee yoo But I loved the blue shell when I was a kid...
I'm glad that everyone in this comment section is very supportive about this man rambling as to why tanks are broken in a videogame about an Italian dude possessing other beings
That vertical axis being faster than the horizontal axis is a problem that splatoon has, I hate that you can't change the x and y sensitivity seperately
Very excited for the worst boss video, I comepletely forgot about the flower one tbh....
12:20 Finally a question I can answer!
There is actually a good reason why the shots are limited, I would even say that's *surprisingly* simple.
Basically, loading assets is really expensive on performances. You have to load a model, apply textures, render everything, apply some behaviour scripts to it. A lot of things that are insanely complex and will definitely hurt your CPU. If each bullet was a different, new entity, the tank would also tank the game's FPS. Giving the player a button that does a lot of different, heavy calculations that ALSO make enemies explode is a bad idea, because realistically, everyone would spam that button, which would make the game a laggy, unfunny experience.
So here is the twist: you can only fire 3 bullets, because only 3 bullets exist. If you were to fire at the sky, wait, then fire again, you would actually see the same bullets be fired again. They were just teleported to you, then made invisible, then teleported back to you, ready to be fired again. Instead of having a lot of different new entities, there are only 3 that are recycled over and over again. Teleporting them, and making them (in)visible is just a matter of a few easy steps. You need to change 3 variables for the position, and then toggle whether or not the bullets are rendered. Compare that to creating a whole new entity, and you can already see how it is more optimized.
However, that also proves once again that the tanks were poorly implemented. To access the different bullets to recycle game objects, you have to put them into a list (or an array) to keep a reference to them. An array has a limited, set size you can't change, so I guess Nintendo went that way, with an array size of 3. Now, I don't know exactly the difference performance-wise between accessing a list and accessing an array, so I don't know if it's a good choice in that context. The fact they willingly decided that you could only have 3 bullets at once, instead of increasing the array size so it could contain enough bullets to make it so the first bullet in the array can be recycled as soon as the last bullet was used is a proof they decided on purpose to tale a lazy approach on this topic.
(Also, before someone asks, if you use a list, you can actually make the list empty at first, and then each time the player shoots a bullet while there is no other available bullet in the recycle list, you can make a new one. Eventually, the list will reach a cap where no more bullets can be added and therefore, there is no more cost on performance while also not limiting the player in a dumb, arbitrary way).
I give this lazy approach a single fuzzy. Really disappointing to see Nintendo go the easy way instead of adding the overheat mechanic as a better, more visual and actually good mechanic (like seeing the tank going red gradually if you shoot too much in a short succession, while also giving the player the ability to shoot forever until the overheating happens).
Dang, that was actually a good explanation. Thanks.
As a veteran player of said shooty shooty bang bang games, there _is_ actually a reason to have the X and Y axis sensitivity be set different, and it's because of how imprecise using a stick is as you yourself highlighted. _HOWEVER_, in those games it's usually the _Y_ axis that is less sensitive, because you're usually fighting enemies on the same horizontal plane as you, or at least they are themselves grouped together at similar heights. The Y axis is made slower so that when you try to move your view horizontally, since being exactly 100% perfectly straight with your fingers on a circle pad is not an exact science, your camera doesn't go all over the place. It also makes it slightly easier to land headshots you don't need that much distance to aim up a few degrees, vs. needing to make wide swings to get the enemies in your sights.
It's a compensation for the lack of a more precise tool like, say, a mouse, but of course even mouse aiming games tend to have slightly lower values for the Y axis, since again you use the x axis way more and generally need the Y for more situational, more precise shots.
I dunno what Odyssey was thinking when it made the X axis the least sensitive one, for even in the sections designed specifically for the tank you usually need your aim level for certain heights.
"do you want a tank?"
"No, tanks."
𝗧𝗛𝗘𝗥𝗘 𝗚𝗢𝗘𝗦 𝗠𝗬 𝗕𝗥𝗔𝗜𝗡
Wait i commented that?
The only complaint I really resonate with in this video is how the tanks freeze to shoot. I never had a problem with motion controls, so I never used the stick. Maybe the three shot cool down caused me to take a few hits, but I didn't know that function even existed till seeing this video. I still think the Sherms were one of my favorite parts of the game, even if they had some mild flaws. That's not to say that Ceave is lying or anything of that sort, just that I found the tanks to be quite fun.
As far as the larger conversation goes, it's possible nintendo could've done more to make each capture a deeper experience, but I think it would've been to the game's detriment. I played for the first time fairly recently, and found that Mario's controls alone were overwhelming for a while. Having only a couple of functions for each capture made them easily digestible and fit into a tighter puzzle. I always knew exactly what I could rely on to solve a problem. Each enemy had a unique design that made it memorable and highly specialized, and a large array of possibilities would've overcomplicated simple tasks.
Sure, each capture could only do so much. But the game intends you to survive off your surroundings, not get cozy in one capture forever, and certainly not waste time practicing the trickier controls. You're supposed to be hopping in and out of captures with some degree of quickness, capitalizing on a useful function then moving on. More complexity would mean more time spent bonking, dying, and getting so attached to your Jetpack Goomba with samurai swords that you can't ditch it for an Uproot. You spend most of the game as Mario, giving you plenty of time to master his powerful moveset. However, you just don't have that kind of time with the captures. You have to hop into the Uproot and start attacking the UFO! Simple enemies maintains the pacing of the level.
If nintendo cut the roster to create more diverse movesets for each capture, it would've been way too much for new players, and honestly leave the world feeling somewhat bland. I bet many of us noticed deep down that Bowser's kingdom was kind of deviod with Pokios as the only residents. It was still fun! But if every kingdom were just Mario and the equally complicated Jetpack Samurai Goomba, each area would feel less like an ecosystem and more like Bowser's Empty Kingdom. As is, most levels have enough diversity to really feel immersive and alive.
Further more, Mario's incredible moveset feels really good to use, but also enables some mild, but still acceptable levels of game breaking. If each capture had as many options as the main character, nintendo would've had a much harder time designing "closed ended" levels. By that I mean that there are specifically intended strategies to beating each level, and you're clearly not supposed to utilize the powers of one enemy elsewhere in ways that could make a hard problem simple. Finding little sequence breaks like that can feel fun and liberating for the player, but at the end of the day, this is a platformer, not an open world RPG. Both generas clearly have shown themselves to be valid but separate ways of having fun. Nintendo did a fantastic job with "open ended" problems in Breath of the Wild, where the player could find any one of hundreds of ways to fix an issue. But again, this is a platformer, a genera where the players have universally agreed that we should let the game devs railroad us into their singular solutions to problems. Because it can be just be as fun as totally unrestricted freedom! Getting back to the main point, keeping each character on a tighter leash helped box them in their own subtle corrals. That way, Nintendo wouldn't have to deal with rogue players flying their Jetpack Goomba from the other side of the map all the way over top of their carefully calibrated parkour course.
So to sum up, Nintendo did the smart thing by giving us a huge cast of memorable captures, and only simple moves for each one. It helps us find the solution to problems without struggle, kept up the fast paced gameplay, made each kingdom more vibrant, and made level design far less complicated. This all comes down to Nintendo having to force feed us the less deadly poison. Comparing to Zelda again, everybody hates that their weapons break, but most people nowadays realize it was a necessary evil in order to, among other things, get players to branch out on their weapon selection. Similarly, Nintendo gave us some less fun individual captures for overall vastly improved levels.
At the beginning of the video, Ceave mentioned he didn't have any grand implications when criticizing the half baked tanks, as opposed to how he's used the cat suit as an example of Nintendo's trashy glitch policy in the past. However, at the end he applied his critical mind to the rest of the game, and correctly realized Nintendo didn't do a ton with each capture. From there, it seems he takes a forgivable leap in logic and assumes the game would've been better if each capture were more developed, even suggesting that fewer captures could've enabled this. That leads me to believe the end of this video was kind of off the cuff, because I'm sure a clever guy like Ceave would've come to many of the same concussions I did under a little bit of analysis.
All in all it was still an entertaining video! I hope to see more like it! (Now please like my comment everybody, I don't want to have written this for nothing.)
"All Nintendo had to do was copy what they had already done in a previous game"
Pokemon fans with litterally all of Sword/Shield: First time?
Basically
@@watsgoinonhere1 The first has already been solved in the recent games where the HMs have way better replacements or just straight up aren't in the game. The second one, well, it's a RPG. It's like a comparison of team sports (I couldn't thimk of a better comparison but hopefully it's understandable) and something like chess. While the point of the former is to act, chess uses the same type of idea as RPGs: strategy. The showcase of skill is by strategizing in the best way you can to defeat your opponent's team, as opposed to an actual, real time fight. The premise of clicking a move and trying to predict what your opponent will do or even choosing what moves you're gonna use in the first place, while trying to take account for most situations you may face. While some people would enjoy a new, action based system, the turn based one is really enjoyable for most fans (at least, I think so). Having different things according to the scenary you're in sounds hella cool tho, and I'd be really interested in seeing what they could pull off with a battle system like that in some sort of spin off or even an alternate type of battle as long as the original system stays.
My teacher in 6th grade got mad at me and said "Zach Sherman, huh? Are you named after the Sherman tank? Because the tank was a failure."
Thanks for proving Mr. Pelicano right, Ceave.
Shooty-shooty-bang-bang game while pew-pewing blocks that go BOOM!
I am surprised that you did not talk about the part that frustrates me the most about the tank controls: the shooting button is using the same thumb as the aiming joystick, meaning that you cannot shoot as soon as you stopped aiming with it.
You need to move your thumb, press the Y button, then move it back to the joystick in case you missed the shot.
To me the solution to that issue would be to use a button "assigned" to another finger (I really dislike the "press the joystick" button, it always mess with my joystick aiming), like a shoulder button, even if I can see how that conflicts with the overall powerup design philosophy of Mario games.
Ceave: rants about tanks in Odyssey for 20 minutes.
Scott: Amateur
"Ceave got 20 minutes out of this?"
I mean, Scott did make a 44 minute video about boxes, if we're thinking of the same person.
@@bananacat3109 Oh yes
5:41 In my opinion, the tanks targeting is implemented badly just because that is how the camera in this game works. When you play as mario and rotate the camera around, it first starts slowly and then accellerates, which is good for a camera of a platformer. But when entering tank mode, this behavior is not overridden and just leaved as-is.
"Nintendo, what is this aiming" - videogamedunkey/ Ceave
The whole thing about captures reminds me of a PS2 game called "Crash of the Titans" that is built around captures, and those captures actually feel quite good to use.
Bittle lit 3:04
I played through the whole of Ocarinda of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D using motion controls for the bow. It's fucking amazing to use them once you get a handle of what to do.