This is the sound of my childhood, riding the 141’s on the Harrogate line back in the early 90’s. Yes I know the Cummins units were a lot more reliable but you cannot beat the sound of those Leyland TL11’s. I could listen to these all day! Thanks for sharing.
Yes, the TL11 sounded very musical when coupled to the SCG gearbox. However, there was an epidemic of SCG gearbox failures that resulted in all Class 142, 143s and 144s receiving Voith Hydraulic Transmission between the autumn of 1988 and late March 1991. The TL11 seemed badly matched and was very noisy and sluggish. At college we dubbed the Voith converted units as being 'Voith--bugged' and everytime I caught a Class 142 during the conversion period I hoped it was a set still retaining SCG gearboxes. This video filmed at Wigan Wallgate in 1991 shows how noisy they were at 1m50s ua-cam.com/video/lTJF4a4etkw/v-deo.html The Cummins LTA10R engines were fitted between March 1993 and April 1996. They were quieter and more powerful. With Cummins/Voith drivelines, the Pacers were transformed into good workhorses that lasted 20 years longer than their expected lifespan.
I know what you mean about listening to these all day - the noise is really pleasant! I’ve found some more recordings taken later on the same journey to Doncaster so I’ll digitise the highlights soon. There are a couple of station starts which are good and a bit of jointed track which is novel!
Only thing this sound recording does not capture is the fear that the driver is going through when using the cable operated brakes Great job at capturing it
Reminds me of when I drove them with the TL engines at Llandudno Junction back in the day. I thought they were great units, and quite nippy too, with the original engines. Many thanks for the memories.
Love that Engine sound and the Audio and Captions says it all! Awesome to hear the Pacers with the OG TL11 engines. It sounds like a Leyland Tiger on Rails. It's a pitty they replaced the engines with the Cummins LTA10, think is like a Rail version of the Cummins L10 Bus engine, would be awesome if they kept the TL11s converted it with a ZF Ecomat Gearbox just like the Leyland DAB Lion that would sound Dope for sure!! 🤘🤘
Really appreciated the info. Very good quality recording for 88. I used to regularly ride Tigers around this time and beyond so it was really interesting to hear a TL11/SCG in this use. Sounded really good. Reality is the Cummins/Voith is vastly better for this. Great somebody posted a record. Good work!
Wow I thought I was hearing the Leyland engine the whole time. But this is what the Leyland version sound like it’s even change gear while a current Cummins version don’t change gear
At the start of the 1990s, BR was looking for a replacement engine to replace the TL11 engine on Pacers. The TL11 went out of production in 1988, parts were getting hard to come by and reliability was starting to drop. As a trial Cummins LT10R engines were fitted to Class 141, 141113 in 1987. 142084 featured in this video was fitted with Perkins 'Phaser' 2006TWH engines in 1991 as part of another trial. This engine was used in Class 165s, 166s and a minority of Class 158s. The Cummins LT10R won the day and all Class 142, 143 and 144s were re-engined between March 1993 and April 1996. 142084 received Cummins engines towards the end of the program. At 12.7 litres, the Perkins was probably bigger than what was needed on a Pacer.
Great nostalgia !!, That unique TL11 sound only heard at vintage bus rallies these days when the odd Mk2 National is around. Fun fact, We had a reconditioning business in the 80' and 90's that specialised in Leyland engines and bought many failed Pacer TL11 engines from BR engineering at Tinsley as a source of fresh blocks, cranks, heads and other parts ...., They were sold quite cheap as most were seized up on the crankshafts and so declared essentially scrap by BR....... When we stripped them we found many had suffered a very light crankshaft seizure due to oil starvation caused by very low oil levels in the sump.... The ultimate cause (in our opinion) was because BR decided to remove any way for the oil level to be periodically checked or easily topped up. The sump was blanked off where the filler neck and dipstick tube would normally be when fitted into buses for example. So basically they were filled with just the right amount of oil during servicing and sealed up, then expected to last without any top ups or level checks until the next service, Obviously some didn't..... Although we fully reconditioned the engines, quite often the seizures were so light that polishing the crank and fitting new bearings was all that was needed, usually everything else was in mint condition... some of course were complete scrap too, but we did very well out of BR's mistake. Thank you BR... If I remember correctly the gearboxes in these were the same GB350 Pneumocyclic semi automatic gearboxes as fitted to their bus brothers, maybe with fully automatic control, although listening to this recording I'm certain the driver is changing the gears in semi automatic mode rather than being fully automatic, there's tell tale blips of the throttle between changes that a computerised transmission controller just wouldn't do. I note that the Cummins engine that replaced these had a filler and dipstick (we bought these engines too from BR), maybe BR learned a lesson that engines last a bit longer with oil inside (although in fairness Leylands were a terrible engine in comparison).
You might be the man to consult. I was told the TL11 has AEC 505 derived heads. Would help explain the humming sound they make when winding down and their much smoother running over the 0680. Would help explain their tendency to pop head gaskets as well, which I only recently read in another YT comments section. A bus mechanic told me they leak oil worse than an AEC. No wonder they siezed up under BR. A shame they had issues as they were a beautiful refined yet grunty sounding and powerful motor.
@@jamesfrench7299 AFAIK the heads (and most of the engine) were copie... *ahem* ...... "derived" from the DAF MB1100 (might have that model wrong, been a long time but certainly spawned from DAF DNA), AEC's tended to be more curvy and slimmer heads but not being familiar with the 505 I can't be accurate on that (we did AEC 760's which were a world away from anything Leyland). There's not much physical difference between 0680 and TL11 heads. The castings on the TL11 were a little more boxy and squared off to match the beefed up squarer looking block but otherwise identical and you could interchange valves, springs, guides etc between 680 and TL so there isn't that much of a change except cosmetically, although TL11 heads had thicker head studs (5/8" if memory serves, as opposed to 9/16") to allow for higher torque and prevent stripping of threads.... bigger studs didn't cure the bloody head gasket issues though, although we found the secret sauce for that was to be re-torquing the heads straight after the test run while it was still warm, and then again after 1 month in the vehicle, didn't seem to get many gasket failures after we did that, we also changed the liner protrusion from the book figures which I also think helped the gasket issues. As for leaks.... All Leylands used to come with a lifetime supply of leyland embossed rags !!, simply awful, so many points of failure, but with care you could make them quite dry... we gave 2 year warranties so had to figure out ways to make them dry(er) otherwise we'd be forever going to oil leaks, but wasn't easy and most often just accepted as leaky. I think most of the oil disappeared out the exhaust TBH and as vapour out the the breather, piston oil control rings weren't the best, blip the throttle on a leyland that's been idling for 10 minutes and you'll always get a puff of smoke from the oil passing the rings. The BR engines were usually dry externally so again I think they burnt most of their oil. AEC were actually much better, the rear crank seal in particular (760 engine) was just genius, didn't even have a seal yet stayed dry !! but overall the AEC was a much better engineered engine and fewer shafts and pipes to seal compared to leylands. As for difference in sound, and smoother running....... Apart from TLll being a heavier casting, the heads are nearly identical, as was the induction and exhaust manifolds (assuming were talking about non turbo TL11's) so I couldn't attribute anything on the top end that might change the sound, maybe the beefier blocks and heads changed it a little. What might cause a bigger difference is the induction hoses and filter as those were very different designs and really did change how they sounded especially the rear engined National 2, compared to mid mounted 680. The fuel pumps and injectors are also different between 680 and TL11 (often a rotary DPA pump on 0680, TL11 had in line F&M's and slim injectors) so I'd put my money on that being perhaps the main reason in smoother running and throttle response, the F&M injection gear was always noticeably more responsive and smoother. Oh and I think National 2 ran the engine air induction right to the front (?? can't fully remember, might be wrong) because National 1's failed frequently simply due to sucking in dirty air from the back behind the road wheels so on the MK2's they ran the intake to the front.... but anyway that long intake tube I think caused a lot of that wonderful deep growl we hear, like a reverse trumpet with 11.1 litre lungs.
@@d3b536 whatever they did, the TL11 was a dramatic modernisation. It was much more AEC 760 like in character sound wise. I used to ride Swifts with 760 motors. They were unique to Australian operators. Adelaide had 66 hooked to ZF 2 HP 500 two speed automatic boxes entering service in 1978. Phenomenal sounding is an understatement. I used to ride in 5 speed SCG versions run by Sydney private bus lines. I was a lucky boy. I caught Leyland Tigers most equipped with 245 hp versions of the TL 11. That operator had 20 of them and seemed to get a good run out of them, though he reportedly had very skilled Leyland specialised mechanics. Also went to school in Bedfords, Nationals (510) and AEC Swift 505s with the 4.1:1 axle ratio. Lovely music they generated. You say the 0680 rear mounted in a National 2 was different to one in a Leopard? I beg to differ! See this footage of a London Red Arrow example in this 1985 footage. ua-cam.com/video/UNFanyQT2QU/v-deo.htmlm07s. A couple of the AEC Swift 760s I recorded in 96. ua-cam.com/video/2408AXIhK4k/v-deo.html
@@jamesfrench7299 My favourite was the Tiger 245 and 260's and then the National 2's, then national 1 with the Leyland grenade (510... Hated the engine but loved the character), just loved the sounds they made. Gardner also to a certain extent due to it's longer stroke and lower revving nature, such a low booming torquey beast. I think I was mis-understood. I don't think the difference in sound was purely from the type of block and heads used (whether 680 or TL11), you can use either block as the basis for a National or Leopard and it will sound the same in that configuration (so a TL11 block will sound the same as a 680 if configured as a Leopard for example) but obviously a Leopard sounds completely different to a National.. but not due to the block, it's all the other stuff.... Induction & Exhaust pipes, Fluid coupling, injection equipment, closer tolerance injection pump & compressor drive.... etc etc....those changed the sound and smoothness considerably more than the core block used. In the same way a Mid mounted Tiger 218 sounds different to a rear mounted Leyland Lynx 218, both are identical TL11 'Tiger' engines but sound very different in the different positions.
@@FM60260 I think that the ZF gearboxes are similar in principle to the SCG gearboxes but are 6 speed. I remember reading that the ZF gearboxes are 10% more fuel efficient on routes with plenty stops compared to the Voith hydraulic setup.
Zf ecolife gearboxes sound like plagiarized scg gearboxes with slammed gear changes. Volvo ishift gearboxes to be plagiarized hydracyclic boxes from the 1980s.
I actually work for RHTS and I have spent alot of time around 142 084. Another thing to add is that we also have classmate 142 091 preserved but she's being used as a parts donar for 084. So far we've only taken diesel from it 😅 To hear 084 with the original Leyland TL11 unit is to me quite a beutiful sound to listen to as I'm so used to hearing her bounce up and down the line with her current cummins unit. Great vid btw 👍
Great to hear that you know about the recording! I sent an email to RHTS to tell them about the recording a while back, but no one replied. It must have gone to a non-Pacer person 😀! I know what do you mean about the sound being pleasant. It does sound more interesting than the Cummins engine and hydraulic transmission. It’s a shame that the engine and gearbox were flawed. I’ve actually got some further recordings of 142084 on the same journey which also sound quite nice. By the way, I volunteer at the Aln Valley Railway and work on the maintenance of their 144 Pacers - glutton for punishment!
We’re thinking of putting some tables into 144016. Can you let me know the source of the tables used in your 142? The layout looks good on the UA-cam film I watched! Cheers, Simon.
@@pacerfilms5920 I did ask some other volunteers down at RHTS where they sourced both the tables and the chairs, the tables I personally belive were salvaged from a BR MK3 coach and the chairs from a MK2. All the original Leyland bus seats were removed and disposed of before I joined RHTS. The tables have been retrofitted with working power outlets which gain power directly from the batteries, all of them work as I was there to witness them being fitted and tested.
Absolutely like the video and for Northern Rail provided they had a management team that worked on the Pacers pre Repowered and gearbox change they would have likely ordered a UK loafing gauge sized DSB IC4 to replace them. Same gearbox as a Lorry that has an automated manual gearbox instead of a manual gearbox
Only thing I liked about these galloping baked bean tins is that sweet sounding TL11 SCG combo, not vocal as a BUT Leyland 680 4-speed SCG box of a Metcamm 101 ,in 1st they howl.
1987 hull - Scarborough line received pacers (& sprinters) to replace the ageing 1st generation dmu's. from memory i think it was 142050 that had a cummins engines fitted as a 'test & compare' such fun on jointed track at 70mph ....
142050 was the sole unit built with Voith T211r hydraulic transmission as a trial, but still had Leyland TL11 engines. The first unit to get Cummins LT10R engines was Class 141 No. 141113 (earlier numbered 141012). It was fitted with with Voith transmission at the same time by Derby Works in 1987. The experiment was such a success that all class 142s, 143s and 144s were later so fitted. The other Class 141s retained their TL11 engines and SCG gearboxes until their withdrawal between 1995 to 1998.
This is the sound of my childhood, riding the 141’s on the Harrogate line back in the early 90’s. Yes I know the Cummins units were a lot more reliable but you cannot beat the sound of those Leyland TL11’s. I could listen to these all day! Thanks for sharing.
Yes, the TL11 sounded very musical when coupled to the SCG gearbox. However, there was an epidemic of SCG gearbox failures that resulted in all Class 142, 143s and 144s receiving Voith Hydraulic Transmission between the autumn of 1988 and late March 1991. The TL11 seemed badly matched and was very noisy and sluggish. At college we dubbed the Voith converted units as being 'Voith--bugged' and everytime I caught a Class 142 during the conversion period I hoped it was a set still retaining SCG gearboxes.
This video filmed at Wigan Wallgate in 1991 shows how noisy they were at 1m50s ua-cam.com/video/lTJF4a4etkw/v-deo.html
The Cummins LTA10R engines were fitted between March 1993 and April 1996. They were quieter and more powerful. With Cummins/Voith drivelines, the Pacers were transformed into good workhorses that lasted 20 years longer than their expected lifespan.
I know what you mean about listening to these all day - the noise is really pleasant! I’ve found some more recordings taken later on the same journey to Doncaster so I’ll digitise the highlights soon. There are a couple of station starts which are good and a bit of jointed track which is novel!
Only thing this sound recording does not capture is the fear that the driver is going through when using the cable operated brakes
Great job at capturing it
I wonder if Just Trains will reference this when doing the Pacer sounds for TSW4
Reminds me of when I drove them with the TL engines at Llandudno Junction back in the day. I thought they were great units, and quite nippy too, with the original engines. Many thanks for the memories.
Love that Engine sound and the Audio and Captions says it all! Awesome to hear the Pacers with the OG TL11 engines. It sounds like a Leyland Tiger on Rails. It's a pitty they replaced the engines with the Cummins LTA10, think is like a Rail version of the Cummins L10 Bus engine, would be awesome if they kept the TL11s converted it with a ZF Ecomat Gearbox just like the Leyland DAB Lion that would sound Dope for sure!! 🤘🤘
Marvellous recording. What it doesn’t capture is the bumps and bangs when starting away or the various gear change up points.
Really appreciated the info. Very good quality recording for 88.
I used to regularly ride Tigers around this time and beyond so it was really interesting to hear a TL11/SCG in this use. Sounded really good.
Reality is the Cummins/Voith is vastly better for this.
Great somebody posted a record. Good work!
Wow I thought I was hearing the Leyland engine the whole time. But this is what the Leyland version sound like it’s even change gear while a current Cummins version don’t change gear
At the start of the 1990s, BR was looking for a replacement engine to replace the TL11 engine on Pacers. The TL11 went out of production in 1988, parts were getting hard to come by and reliability was starting to drop. As a trial Cummins LT10R engines were fitted to Class 141, 141113 in 1987. 142084 featured in this video was fitted with Perkins 'Phaser' 2006TWH engines in 1991 as part of another trial. This engine was used in Class 165s, 166s and a minority of Class 158s.
The Cummins LT10R won the day and all Class 142, 143 and 144s were re-engined between March 1993 and April 1996. 142084 received Cummins engines towards the end of the program. At 12.7 litres, the Perkins was probably bigger than what was needed on a Pacer.
Great nostalgia !!, That unique TL11 sound only heard at vintage bus rallies these days when the odd Mk2 National is around.
Fun fact, We had a reconditioning business in the 80' and 90's that specialised in Leyland engines and bought many failed Pacer TL11 engines from BR engineering at Tinsley as a source of fresh blocks, cranks, heads and other parts ...., They were sold quite cheap as most were seized up on the crankshafts and so declared essentially scrap by BR.......
When we stripped them we found many had suffered a very light crankshaft seizure due to oil starvation caused by very low oil levels in the sump.... The ultimate cause (in our opinion) was because BR decided to remove any way for the oil level to be periodically checked or easily topped up. The sump was blanked off where the filler neck and dipstick tube would normally be when fitted into buses for example. So basically they were filled with just the right amount of oil during servicing and sealed up, then expected to last without any top ups or level checks until the next service, Obviously some didn't.....
Although we fully reconditioned the engines, quite often the seizures were so light that polishing the crank and fitting new bearings was all that was needed, usually everything else was in mint condition... some of course were complete scrap too, but we did very well out of BR's mistake. Thank you BR...
If I remember correctly the gearboxes in these were the same GB350 Pneumocyclic semi automatic gearboxes as fitted to their bus brothers, maybe with fully automatic control, although listening to this recording I'm certain the driver is changing the gears in semi automatic mode rather than being fully automatic, there's tell tale blips of the throttle between changes that a computerised transmission controller just wouldn't do.
I note that the Cummins engine that replaced these had a filler and dipstick (we bought these engines too from BR), maybe BR learned a lesson that engines last a bit longer with oil inside (although in fairness Leylands were a terrible engine in comparison).
Fascinating! Many thanks for the comments.
You might be the man to consult.
I was told the TL11 has AEC 505 derived heads. Would help explain the humming sound they make when winding down and their much smoother running over the 0680.
Would help explain their tendency to pop head gaskets as well, which I only recently read in another YT comments section.
A bus mechanic told me they leak oil worse than an AEC. No wonder they siezed up under BR.
A shame they had issues as they were a beautiful refined yet grunty sounding and powerful motor.
@@jamesfrench7299 AFAIK the heads (and most of the engine) were copie... *ahem* ...... "derived" from the DAF MB1100 (might have that model wrong, been a long time but certainly spawned from DAF DNA), AEC's tended to be more curvy and slimmer heads but not being familiar with the 505 I can't be accurate on that (we did AEC 760's which were a world away from anything Leyland).
There's not much physical difference between 0680 and TL11 heads. The castings on the TL11 were a little more boxy and squared off to match the beefed up squarer looking block but otherwise identical and you could interchange valves, springs, guides etc between 680 and TL so there isn't that much of a change except cosmetically, although TL11 heads had thicker head studs (5/8" if memory serves, as opposed to 9/16") to allow for higher torque and prevent stripping of threads.... bigger studs didn't cure the bloody head gasket issues though, although we found the secret sauce for that was to be re-torquing the heads straight after the test run while it was still warm, and then again after 1 month in the vehicle, didn't seem to get many gasket failures after we did that, we also changed the liner protrusion from the book figures which I also think helped the gasket issues.
As for leaks.... All Leylands used to come with a lifetime supply of leyland embossed rags !!, simply awful, so many points of failure, but with care you could make them quite dry... we gave 2 year warranties so had to figure out ways to make them dry(er) otherwise we'd be forever going to oil leaks, but wasn't easy and most often just accepted as leaky. I think most of the oil disappeared out the exhaust TBH and as vapour out the the breather, piston oil control rings weren't the best, blip the throttle on a leyland that's been idling for 10 minutes and you'll always get a puff of smoke from the oil passing the rings. The BR engines were usually dry externally so again I think they burnt most of their oil. AEC were actually much better, the rear crank seal in particular (760 engine) was just genius, didn't even have a seal yet stayed dry !! but overall the AEC was a much better engineered engine and fewer shafts and pipes to seal compared to leylands.
As for difference in sound, and smoother running....... Apart from TLll being a heavier casting, the heads are nearly identical, as was the induction and exhaust manifolds (assuming were talking about non turbo TL11's) so I couldn't attribute anything on the top end that might change the sound, maybe the beefier blocks and heads changed it a little.
What might cause a bigger difference is the induction hoses and filter as those were very different designs and really did change how they sounded especially the rear engined National 2, compared to mid mounted 680. The fuel pumps and injectors are also different between 680 and TL11 (often a rotary DPA pump on 0680, TL11 had in line F&M's and slim injectors) so I'd put my money on that being perhaps the main reason in smoother running and throttle response, the F&M injection gear was always noticeably more responsive and smoother.
Oh and I think National 2 ran the engine air induction right to the front (?? can't fully remember, might be wrong) because National 1's failed frequently simply due to sucking in dirty air from the back behind the road wheels so on the MK2's they ran the intake to the front.... but anyway that long intake tube I think caused a lot of that wonderful deep growl we hear, like a reverse trumpet with 11.1 litre lungs.
@@d3b536 whatever they did, the TL11 was a dramatic modernisation.
It was much more AEC 760 like in character sound wise. I used to ride Swifts with 760 motors. They were unique to Australian operators. Adelaide had 66 hooked to ZF 2 HP 500 two speed automatic boxes entering service in 1978. Phenomenal sounding is an understatement. I used to ride in 5 speed SCG versions run by Sydney private bus lines. I was a lucky boy.
I caught Leyland Tigers most equipped with 245 hp versions of the TL 11. That operator had 20 of them and seemed to get a good run out of them, though he reportedly had very skilled Leyland specialised mechanics. Also went to school in Bedfords, Nationals (510) and AEC Swift 505s with the 4.1:1 axle ratio. Lovely music they generated.
You say the 0680 rear mounted in a National 2 was different to one in a Leopard? I beg to differ! See this footage of a London Red Arrow example in this 1985 footage.
ua-cam.com/video/UNFanyQT2QU/v-deo.htmlm07s.
A couple of the AEC Swift 760s I recorded in 96.
ua-cam.com/video/2408AXIhK4k/v-deo.html
@@jamesfrench7299 My favourite was the Tiger 245 and 260's and then the National 2's, then national 1 with the Leyland grenade (510... Hated the engine but loved the character), just loved the sounds they made. Gardner also to a certain extent due to it's longer stroke and lower revving nature, such a low booming torquey beast.
I think I was mis-understood. I don't think the difference in sound was purely from the type of block and heads used (whether 680 or TL11), you can use either block as the basis for a National or Leopard and it will sound the same in that configuration (so a TL11 block will sound the same as a 680 if configured as a Leopard for example) but obviously a Leopard sounds completely different to a National.. but not due to the block, it's all the other stuff.... Induction & Exhaust pipes, Fluid coupling, injection equipment, closer tolerance injection pump & compressor drive.... etc etc....those changed the sound and smoothness considerably more than the core block used.
In the same way a Mid mounted Tiger 218 sounds different to a rear mounted Leyland Lynx 218, both are identical TL11 'Tiger' engines but sound very different in the different positions.
Interesting how their successors, the CAF class 195's have engines with self changing gears
The 195s use ZF Ecolife, SCG disappeared a long time ago
@@FM60260 I think that the ZF gearboxes are similar in principle to the SCG gearboxes but are 6 speed.
I remember reading that the ZF gearboxes are 10% more fuel efficient on routes with plenty stops compared to the Voith hydraulic setup.
Zf ecolife gearboxes sound like plagiarized scg gearboxes with slammed gear changes. Volvo ishift gearboxes to be plagiarized hydracyclic boxes from the 1980s.
I actually work for RHTS and I have spent alot of time around 142 084. Another thing to add is that we also have classmate 142 091 preserved but she's being used as a parts donar for 084. So far we've only taken diesel from it 😅
To hear 084 with the original Leyland TL11 unit is to me quite a beutiful sound to listen to as I'm so used to hearing her bounce up and down the line with her current cummins unit.
Great vid btw 👍
Great to hear that you know about the recording! I sent an email to RHTS to tell them about the recording a while back, but no one replied. It must have gone to a non-Pacer person 😀! I know what do you mean about the sound being pleasant. It does sound more interesting than the Cummins engine and hydraulic transmission. It’s a shame that the engine and gearbox were flawed. I’ve actually got some further recordings of 142084 on the same journey which also sound quite nice.
By the way, I volunteer at the Aln Valley Railway and work on the maintenance of their 144 Pacers - glutton for punishment!
We’re thinking of putting some tables into 144016. Can you let me know the source of the tables used in your 142? The layout looks good on the UA-cam film I watched! Cheers, Simon.
@@pacerfilms5920 I did ask some other volunteers down at RHTS where they sourced both the tables and the chairs, the tables I personally belive were salvaged from a BR MK3 coach and the chairs from a MK2.
All the original Leyland bus seats were removed and disposed of before I joined RHTS.
The tables have been retrofitted with working power outlets which gain power directly from the batteries, all of them work as I was there to witness them being fitted and tested.
Many thanks for this info - really helpful! 🙂
Would it be possible to get a photo of the bottom of a table leg to see how it is attached to the floor? Simon.hadden@alnvalleyrailway.co.uk
Absolutely like the video and for Northern Rail provided they had a management team that worked on the Pacers pre Repowered and gearbox change they would have likely ordered a UK loafing gauge sized DSB IC4 to replace them. Same gearbox as a Lorry that has an automated manual gearbox instead of a manual gearbox
Only thing I liked about these galloping baked bean tins is that sweet sounding TL11 SCG combo, not vocal as a BUT Leyland 680 4-speed SCG box of a Metcamm 101 ,in 1st they howl.
1987 hull - Scarborough line received pacers (& sprinters) to replace the ageing 1st generation dmu's.
from memory i think it was 142050 that had a cummins engines fitted as a 'test & compare'
such fun on jointed track at 70mph ....
142050 was the sole unit built with Voith T211r hydraulic transmission as a trial, but still had Leyland TL11 engines. The first unit to get Cummins LT10R engines was Class 141 No. 141113 (earlier numbered 141012). It was fitted with with Voith transmission at the same time by Derby Works in 1987. The experiment was such a success that all class 142s, 143s and 144s were later so fitted. The other Class 141s retained their TL11 engines and SCG gearboxes until their withdrawal between 1995 to 1998.
@@HORNEBEEDUBLO The 141s survived until August 1997. Such a shame as I liked them
Surely we could lose a couple of national 2s to repower a pacer to these? They're as common as muck!
😂
is,that manual transmission ?
It is a mechanical, four-speed gearbox but the gear changing is automatic.
AMT like Opticruise, i-Shift, AS-Tronic