Leyland National Cold Starts: Mk1 vs Mk2, 510 vs 680. Includes a bonus wash for the Super National!
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- Опубліковано 1 січ 2023
- A short video of me cold starting and shunting two Leyland Nationals in and out of our storage barn, primarily to give one of them a much needed wash.
Firstly, we have my own Mk1, JMY120N, which has a Leyland 510 engine, followed by a friends 680 powered Mk2, LAG188V, which is also the first production Mk2 built.
The Mk1 in particular can be difficult to start from cold, the 510 engine having something of a reputation for poor starting and extremely poor emissions. Mind starts reasonably well, but still clags in true 510 fashion! The Mk2 starts really easily, no doubt helped by it having been fitted with a reconditioned engine a few years ago. Although it is worth mentioning that 680 engines, particularly horizontal versions, can also sometimes be tricky to start in cold weather.
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That engine creates one of the sounds of my childhood. The X9 from Blaenrhondda to Pontypridd
I love the sound of the Mk1 510 engine!
I'm pleasantly surprised how many preserved Nationals still have theirs.
Now that is a bloody cool bus.
Leyland 510 sounds great. Recognize the 510 engine sound watching Archive Bus footage videos the whine just sticks in my head, Nationals are great looking buses, like to see more Classic bus videos, nothing like todays Buses with no Character and Sound to them haha! 😊
I'm going to try and do a few more videos this year, and do them as more of a review type of video rather than just me driving them, as all of my previous videos are. I just need some friendly vehicle owners and a lot more spare time!
@@scatmancraig1974 Sounds good, would be good to give us tours of the Buses, I'm from Scotland not sure if there many Nationals up here. LRT/Lothian Buses had a good number of Nationals I can recall seeing as a Lad not sure when they Withdrawn? there one preserved sometimes its out during their Vintage Running Day!
@@hatsoffhairdownpodcast I think there's one or two preserved Nationals in Scotland, Mk2 SHH389X is at the GVVT in Glasgow. I'm hoping to take the Super National there for their open day in October this year. And I'm also planning a full walk around video as well.
@@scatmancraig1974 Thats sounds Awesome. Good to know there's an National preserved up here and yes I heard of the GVVT has lots of amazing buses preserved, including Front engined Volvo Ailsas. My Uncle used to work in Alexander Dennis Factory, in Falkirk, think he was working under Walter Alexander days, I know he was working upto ADL before he retired he said he Bodies Enviro200s, thanks for the info!
That brings back a few memories. Getting into work on a winters morning and all the buses running trying to get them warm enough inside before setting out. I did notice you didn't sound the horn before reversing. I used to work for London Country Buses many, many ,many years ago now. That is one fancy Leyland National inside/ Thank you for posting.
That 510 brings back childhood memories. The Mk1 National realy doesn't look like a 50 year old design.
Watching with my toddler and he decided he wanted to name the buses. The Super National is now Aladdin and the red MK2 is Eric 🤣🤣🤣
Love that 510 sound. Definitive sound of Sittingbourne High street in the early 80s.
Last National I rode on was in the mid 90s and I seem to remember it being badged as having Volvo power, so I guess a similar unit to the B10M ?
A lot of Nationals were repowered with Volvo engines, and yes they were effectively B10M engines, but detuned to avoid ripping the National transmission apart!
@@scatmancraig1974 learned my trade in a 97 B10M. Now driving a mix of AD double deckers (diesel/"hybrid"/electric) on a daily basis. I'd take a national over any of them.
To this Aussie, it's more a B10B, the rear engined model with the same motor.
I think a Volvo engine turns them into shells of buses. Go like s### off a shovel compared to the 510 though.
I used to give buses names, back in the 80s. Some were named after their registrations, so they had names like Yev and Pev. But I named 4 VRs after the Ninja Turtles.
The LHD Nationals in Venezuela were nicknamed the Payazuenta buses due to the standard issue Pay As You Enter sign remaining in a glass panel despite being in a Spanish speaking market.
It's possible I travelled on that National 2 in the day. I remember them changing the branding to North Western at some point in the 80's with the Blue / Red diagonal stripe paintwork. As others have commented the MK1 engine sound is unmistakable, takes me right back. I also remember the MK2's sounding different, more powerful with a better exhaust note.
It's a bit weird and wonderful that the 0.510 Mk1 National replaced the RE (which often had the 0.680) only to be replaced by the 0.680 Mk2 National. It's almost as if Workington re-invented the RE.
Great stuff as ever, Craig
Soundtrack of my childhood in the 1970s right there - I lived and grew up in Wigan (which preferred Leyland Atlanteans) but went to school in St Helens, where Nationals were an everyday sight - and sound - for years. Well done for preserving these glorious old relics of the past - I can almost smell the clag!
Just watched again after a few months and that National 2 sounded great. It doesn't have the nostalgic factor like the National engine, but has a very satisfying beefy diesel note to it.
I grew up in Nuneatonm when I went to Highschool the then Midland Red garage in Nuneaton had BMMO, National Mk 1s and Marshal/Willowbrook bodied Leopards,. A couple of years later they received their allocation of Nation Mk 2 without the rear pods, which certainly sounded faster and less like a sewing machine trying to rattle a bag of spanners. The Mk 2s still didn't sound as throaty as the Leopards which were quite sprightly being fitted with the coach spec gearbox and rear differentials under a light bus body with coach seats.
If I ever came into money a mk1 National would be top of my list, I've always wanted to drive one since I was a kid
There's plenty of them about, and they are fairly straightforward to work on as they're basically a giant meccano set. You can pretty much buy reproduction versions of all the external body panels too. The biggest thing to watch with them is rust, the main structure of the body is steel, and once rot starts, it's a big job to stop it.
@@scatmancraig1974 that's interesting to know.....Thanks
Undercover storage mandatory.
@@jamesfrench7299 yes, and that applies to all preserved buses. They can deteriorate at an alarming rate if stored outside, especially if they're not in use. Plus, keeping them inside reduces the risk of vandal damage.
Absolutely beautiful bus
30 odd years ago i rode these Barnsley Yorkshire traction ran a fleet of them through to Sheffield .
Great video, Craig. Thanks.
Lag sounds great growls like a angry panther beautifull sound really nice livery too
The 510 reminds me when I was a kid back in the late 80s into the 90s when Parfitts of Rhymney Bridge, Gwent, South Wales had them. Some were ex London Transport.
Great vid Craig, Your National or Supernatuonal looks and sounds really good, top marks to you for keeping her in this great condition, like many inc Ian Seabrook from the Hubnut channel I remember as a youngster travelling occasionally on Leyland Nationals with my mum, the now defunct Crosville Wales had a fleet of these and that engine sound does take me back to those days.
Although the buses we travelled on mostly were Duple bodies Leyland Leopards, another great bus, I’d love to have a ride in both examples of those buses again.
Liked and subbed mate, keep up the good work.👍
Love The Smoke Screen
I used to drive for Chase Bus Services back in the day. That engine sound stays with me to this day. Noisy buggers 😂 even so, miss those days. I drive the buses to this day, but just isn’t the same
Love the sound of that National 2
The National 2 and Dennis Dart are the busses of my childhood, I’ll buy one one day
I drove Leyland Nationals for the MPTE a great bus to drive always had plenty of power when needed. Alan Merseyside.
Scatmancraig the Leyland National man great video im new here keep up the great work great channel
Superb, thank you for sharing 👍😊
That is my dream. I wish I had both of those Nationals! 😍
Great sound the mk1 fantastic to drive .
Great video I love the nationals made my day cheers
Those buses look familiar im sure they were used by the bus company in newbury where i grew up. When we moved to weymouth they had mostly double deckers they seemed quicker.
Sweet
Supernational yes indeed, but please keep the wheels White, they look great like that. Magic stuff cheers.😊
They do look great, but they show up every speck of dirt. It spent longer with grey wheels than with white ones when it was in service.
We should put it to a vote. Some sudsy water and a brush will keep them pearly. Worth the trouble I say!
@@jamesfrench7299 its not so much keeping them clean as stopping the inevitable surface rust coming through, which is more noticeable on a white wheel.
@@scatmancraig1974 that's a problem when commercial vehicles aren't in regular use. Especially the wheel nuts.
The NBC grey should look nice enough.
Beautiful engine in these totally flat bed engine in them like the Subaru engines. And highly reliable Leyland made excellent diesel engines
Pressure washer! In my day, we 'ad nowt but yard brush 'n' bucket of water (cue certain Monty Python sketch)...🙂
510 engined Nationals start up it like Loco's and can't imagine how many were revved to death from cold back in the day. They have strong starter motors though.
My old bus (188). Bought her from Chester in 2003 for preservation, sold her in 2008 to HBR ❤😎
Nice to see an unmolested rear end on a mk1 National (original rear lights, engine cover, number plate location)
Giovanni Michelotti did an immense job with the finishing touches. Donald Stokes made the right call enlisting him.
I liked the sound of the National 2 also, and definitely a quicker waker upper!!
There used to be a bus company I knew with Leyland Leopards that would always wash their buses with kerosene soaked rags as well as keeping their fleet under cover!
I personally would avoid getting too close with the Karcher at joins to avoid forcing water where you don't want it getting trapped!
I like the white wheels myself although well done chrome silver looks good also.
The wheels were white when it was delivered, then changed to standard NBC grey about 9 months later. So it spent far longer with grey wheels than white ones.
Spotted the orange and cream bus. Is that a GCT Bus? Grimsby Cleethorpes Transportation?
Are those standard Leyladn hub caps on the rear wheels of the Super National? I don't think I have seen those on that type of wheel, as opposed to the usual Leopard/Atlantean wheels.
Fascinating seeing the air build up on the dials and then hearing it sneeze when full up, so thanks for sharing. Does the National 2 have an automatic/semi-automatic gear selector, please?
I truly hope EFE or Rapido Trains will release the model bus based on this lovely Leyland National
That would be brilliant if they did. I'm not that much into models, I prefer to own the real thing, but I'd quite like to do a larger scale model of my Super National.
Nothing beats a working 1:1 scale your can walk in.
I wish a 1:18 scale model kit was available, complete with simulated black smoke out the exhaust!
An EFE of this baby would be a good seller, especially as the videos get more views.
does the mk2 auto gearbox still work? sounds amazing
Fantastic Mk1 bus, I want one 😍
Was there ever a Mk2 SUPER as it was slightly better looking, in relative bus terms, and more refined noise (we had Gardners or TL 11)
Great video we should do one with the AEC's one day
I don't mind helping to make one.
I liked seeing the Northern Irish RE.
is that a blackpool Swift to the left?
So who moved the bucket from under the engine bay
Wow!! lots of smoke.
Is that an ulsterbus leyland leopard in the corner
Is that an Ex Ulsterbus in the Shed / Garage with City Centre on in
Definitely prefer the sound of the MK1 National. Would be nice to see a comparison and differences video.
I'd like to do a driving comparison video between the Mk1 and Mk2, but in reality there's very little difference apart from the noise they make. But it is still something I need to do one day soon!
Different front clip housing a radiator and a different shaped windscreen to suit.
Different internal panel work behind the front clip to accommodate the radiator and associated components.
Updated dash with more contemporary for the time multicoloured warning lights with symbols instead of the Stanley Kubrick-esque illuminated wording.
Thicker soft grip steering wheel rim I also believe.
680 engine as standard with Gardner and TL11 'Tiger' engine available later in production.
No more trademark rear radiator grill to the RH side of engine access door. Revised taillamp clusters with an extra brake light lense each side.
I would have thought that the National 2 would handle a little differently from the Mk 1 due to the position of the radiator. When Mk 1 Nationals were new, drivers would crash them due to the rear heavy handling characteristics. I gather that moving the battery box under the cab helped make them handle better, and I assume the short pod was a little lighter than the long one.
Negated by the heavier 0.680.
The 510 was slated to be 11 litres but Leyland head honchos wanted it changed to a smaller motor.
@@crazyleyland5106 Strange as The Super National seems to be of the original generation of mk1 National but it's N-reg.
That's a big bird turd on the windscreen of the red bus 😂
Hi Craig is that an ex national express veichle or not
Ex East Yorkshire in thr former National Bus livery
@@jaredini thank you
It's strange how the 680-derived DAF engine has no trouble starting from cold, these start in more like 2 seconds. I wonder how good (or bad) these Leyland engines used to start when brand-new.
The Leyland 680 was around from well before DAF licenced its production from Leyland.
DAF fitted a different cylinder head and generally updated the fuel injection system.
I've got a feeling these didn't actually have glow plugs.
Anyone else miss buses with faces?
Very much so. Same goes for trains and cars!
I used to drive National 1&2's at Red bus in North devon, Ref the MK1's the 510 engine was a whiney, Gutless dog of a motor! The best MK1 Nationals we had were DAF and Volvo powered!
They're only gutless if they're not maintained properly. When I first acquired the Super National, it was as you describe. I then had the fuel pump set up properly, and it's been like a different bus ever since! The downside is more smoke, but that doesn't worry me too much.
If it has character I don't mind less than stellar performance. You have to get away from this mindset of aiming for car like performance in a bus. If it happens to have it great, but adequate power is perfectly fine.
@@jamesfrench7299 some buses are better when slightly underpowered, as it gives you more chance to work it through the gears. A powerful low geared bus is sometimes not as much fun to drive on certain roads, as you spend all the time in top gear!
@UC6EHJozYUCCx1az0oIqq2dA exactly that!
@@scatmancraig1974 if you were answering my question on whether it's because you want a reason to down change on hills or traffic, I deleted it because your previous reply pretty much answered it.
A pacer train in original condition.
680by far better engine