MIT Professor Donald Sadoway talking about revolutionary liquid metal batteries
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- Опубліковано 30 гру 2020
- MIT Professor Donald Sadoway talks about discovering and developing a liquid metal battery that could revolutionize grid electrical storage at a MIT Enterprise Forum of Texas meeting in June of 2015. He is informative, entertaining, and a great speaker.
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This is the most important lecture you will ever take.
• There price point is currently still too high > $100/kg
• Research is being done for 260C battery for transportation applications
• Zebra unchained has a 3x voltage increase from potential from 0.6 to 1.8V
• 10 year + research with first installation in 2021
• That’s enough growth potential for me to want to work there
University systems need more creative industrialists like Prof Sadoway
"That's why I work on it. Because with an invention here, (pointing to his enormous brain), I can topple dictators half a globe away". Love you Professor!
You're welcome, America and MIT - (he's a Canadian-born export).
Brilliant!
Ref: 33:10 Mendelevium was inspired to arrange the periodic table based on the Sanskrit alphabet table that groups alphabets by sound of alphabets. He even named not yet discovered elements in his time based on Sanskrit numbers starting with eka, dvi, tri ...
A liquid metal electrolyte is a great way to make a solid state battery .
The trick is to make the battery operate at peak performance from -50 degrees Celsius to +50 degrees Celsius .
Amazing
I love him
It just occurred to me that I may have seen this same presentation years ago. I read the notes, and this was given in 2015. Not sure, it may have just been a very similar one I saw years ago.
A different formulation in elements was being used, a higher temp at the time.
There are so many gems in what he speaks about that have nothing to do with what he speaks about... a great speaker... Hopefully there is an 'outsider' who will apply similar processes to the fusion problem... perhaps the rest are all pursuing another different dead end road.
15:00 AFAIK there's no place with 25 + 25, but the Katy Freeway gives it a good shot, right?
21:52 Lithium iron is 20 year old tech. The "new" liquid metal battery tech is nearly as old and still has not happened. What about by 2040?
This is designed for Micro Grids... not cars, phones ect. It is for Wind Farms and Solar farms. BIG farms... that serve significant size of users... like the Reno development.. planned out to 1700 acres.
I am Hoping Australia Builds several 500 Square Klm Solar Power Stations, Soon.
Hence Big Storage Capabilities would be Needed.
Hopefully Engineer Sadoway has a Storage Winner.
Yes, grid scale. Not for cars. Use lithium for cars. Use Ambri for grid. How long for his current installation (in Nevada?) to prove itself so he can scale-up and tie Ambri batteries to power grids everywhere? Can’t wait!
@@nbnvideo The time line depends of the developers success to lease out of the properties, served by the 100% capable Green energy system.
Which means how much demand is there. Also the Supply has to accommodate a larger consideration as to 'needs' where the General Economy must continue to grow and inflation remain stable.
The Developer always wants fast Leasing, a year would be the best I would expect possible to get all 1700 acres monetized.... but all doesn't need to happen.. apprx 1/2 Gw electrical demand plan in all, 1700 acres, to prove basic concept and ongoing success.
It's taking forever to develop. One trap can be trying to get it cheap and at the same time effective. Not every tech is a "Holy Grail" like that. And forever trying, may be futile without expensive stuff. Not saying it won't work but it doesn't look like any time soon, going by how long ago this has been on UA-cam.
I betcha in an apocalyptic situation he does have it "all figured out"....
Proper Chemical thinking
Isn’t antimony less abundant than nickel?
That’s my question as well. I want to be a fan but a quick google search leads me to believe that Antimony is pretty rare. Maybe he has an answer... I would love to know if this kills the whole idea? Surely not!
I looked up the price. It is easily mined and made into ingots. Current price is $3.50/lb.
A Better Comparison with Pumped Hydro is Needed.
If he has an Advantage over Pumped Hydro then this Method has a Chance.
Also this Might have a Good Mobility Advantage. So maybe Trains and Ships could Utilise this Storage Technology.
In order to deploy more solar and wind, we need ALOT of storage. Pumped hydro is great, but there is not enough of it. And no easy way to build more. I think there is HUGE demand for Ambri battery. I just wish it could go faster. The wait is painful!
@@nbnvideo Definitely Easy to Build Highrise Pumped Hydro.
However Ambri may have a Cost Advantage over that.
Also Given it is Very Difficult to do Pumped Hydro for Ships or Trains, this should be Considered for Liquid Metal Energy Storage.
@@chrisgriffiths2533 Ambri can be scaled large or small. Ambri can work in freezing climate. Ambri does not require water, which is in short supply around the world. Ambri can be installed and used in a location and then relocated if the market changes. I don't want to be the guy who needs to get a permit to build "High Rise Pumped Hydro" near a city or neighborhood. At end or life Ambri materials are 100% recycled. I would bet my money on Ambri over pumped hydro any day. I suppose time will tell. The wait is painful!
@@chrisgriffiths2533 "Very difficult to do Pumped Hydro for ships or trains". Yup. Very difficult. Very, very difficult. I am laughing out loud trying to picture how to do pumped hydro on a train.
@@nbnvideo Yes, Consider, Engineer Ambri for Trains and Ships.
But isnt antimony a rare earth metal
Nope. It's currently $3.50/lb.
40:10 Birth control glasses.
My EV powered by a 700 C. Yep, that would be a hot car.
Just how unsafe would it be in a car accident?
In development 260 C for vehicles, that’s cooler than the combustion chamber of an ICE. The 700 C batteries are for solar and wind farms. Heck I will even install it in my yard to run my house using Solar to generate the power.
With the worst handling and slowest acceleration in the history of the auto!
It simply is not meant for vehicles; way too heavy (dense to be precise).
His first major installation is slated for activation by 2022. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Professor Sadoway rips Apple a new one 17:23
Well, since Bill Gates is helping to fund his project...
Finally, someone who agrees with me!
He was trolling, dissing how many people, companies, countries, states? 😎😎
Jay Leno for people with an IQ above 140.
I've seen a couple of presentations by Sadoway before, and he's a very effective presenter. But I have to say that, after this presentation, I see his battery technology as LESS likely to succeed than I previously did. Along about 25 to 30 minutes in, he's disparaging Gigafactories, he's talking about neodymium in magnets for wind turbines, and I think he's FAR astray. You have to be more analytical than that. You have to consider how much of each quantity you're actually using in the product in question. Show me an analysis that says there's enough neodymium in a wind turbine to make its cost prohibitive. The situation for CdTe solar cells is similar-they're thin films, and you have to consider how much of those elements you're going to use. Show me how lithium is going to be in short supply, considering that lithium is NOT one of those precious metals. And by the way, show me how to make a liquid metal battery that will work in an EV. No problem, unless you're leaving the metal battery to fixed storage. Liquid metal batteries aren't feasible for EVs. OTOH are Li-ion batteries workable for fixed storage? That's not yet clear, although Sadoway seems to think it is. It will come down to which type can be made most cheaply. And that, in turn, will depend a lot on what kind of economies of scale the producers of Li-ion and other energy-dense batteries can achieve.
Sadoway's battery may have a great future. I'm not saying it won't. But his breakdown of the subject, as he did it here, is neither fair nor convincing.
If you don't understand something do some of your own research, study, ask questions, learn. Good luck.
@@markallan9528 That YOU don't think I understand something, that doesn't mean I don't. I don't see you pointing out where I'm wrong, so your comment leads nowhere.
@@ronaldgarrison8478 Rare Earth metals and high performance magnets... are depending on China. In America regulation has stalled out production at the EPA level.. assuring maintained high cost and Foreign dependency.. along with foreign dependence always comes a resistance to foreign dependence and lack of innovation happens. What the Prof is telling you, in a manner to not upset the 'Powers that be'... are these Geo-political conditions and Department of Commerce agendas. Which while not being fair are a fact of life and convincing people has to be at a rate and method where certain actors wayyyyyyyyy more powerful than an idea.. can squash anything to maintain monopoly. 'Giga' is only one of several with what has become monopoly in nature...
A simple way to put it is far fewer people get rich when far less money is required for a solution.
@@mikedar8484 Chrissakes, so you're still around. Just take your word salad somewhere else.
@@ronaldgarrison8478 Try giving orders to someone else RONALD. As if they matter. I'm trying to be as plain as possible in this statement, do you COMPREHEND that?
Regretfully you do not understand the politics involved or why Rare Earths are mined in America. Try getting your mind around that concept.. that you are ignorant of cause and effect, What? Too much 'salad again?
If you wish a further explanation, open your pinhole again, perhaps ask a question this time.
53:34 First funding came from Gates. Not a good sign.
Gates was in the second round of financing, not the first or 3rd,, or current 4th.
FUND BITCOIN MINERS AND YOU'LL NOT ONLY BE BILLIONAIRES BUT THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD
1:06:00 More invidious comparisons. Nano, bio, batteries, other stuff. What's more important for society's needs? Sadoway seems to think he knows, and of course it's his field. That doesn't impress me.
13:23 No doubt about it, that's almost the definition of pedantic. Funny as %^&**(, though.
He was wrong about lithium-ion batteries for cars!
How so?
@@senordockman1138 It's not clear what he thinks about Li-ion for cars. He just takes pot-shots about Gigafactories and such. It doesn't reflect well on him.
@@ronaldgarrison8478 Remember..they take shots at him, or others.. the Gigafactorie' are companies with a 'Fan Base' and public, stock companies. Of course the 'Giga' have to attack the competition coming on line... many billions in equity is involved.
@@mikedar8484 Perhaps so, but that doesn't mean his pot-shots are right. It doesn't mean they're anything but pot-shots. And I take a dim view of such tactics. He should pursue a more reasoned approach. If others are unfair toward him in return, then that can be dealt with as it happens.
@@ronaldgarrison8478 Really? Okayyy.. this paradigm of monopoly which takes 'potshots' at any who threaten monopoly seems to not be noticed by you... and the return pot shot is noticed by you. I get it.
I'm reminded of 'Ma Bell', the tech for cellular existed for 40 years and for most of the '40' the same claims and accusations were used stating a waste. "The 'Cell' will only get one million users.." in time frame.. of use. There was a slight variance 1 mill users, in one year were the most common but also as I say, variances, from 'Experts'. The selling of frequency was denied for 40 years for 'Cell', for 40 years.... potshots... in the 'time frame' AFTER cell was enabled, sold frequency, the users went to 100 million.. again variances apply but the 100 times claimed use is pretty much uniform.
People died of old age trying to get 'Cell'. Whether 'Cell' is good or bad doesn't matter for arguments sake, the lies about want are relevant, the potshots relevant, the process of objecting to potshots from monopoly are everything, to do with overcoming monopoly. Now there are more cell phones than people.
Ridicule and humor are, unfortunately, both the 2 most powerful means of stopping or having monopoly imo. Potshots make one think. You did think... maybe the next person will think about it differently... but potshots are necessary and revealing.
Your barrery is great but how many will we now need? We now in 2021 have super cheap nuclear fusion energy already and almost commercialised as in being in advanced production. So sadly, these other Iter-type great research plasma confinement strategies and all current green energy technologies are totally out of date and relatively redundant. All our effort must now go into higher energy density batteries because green energy is now solved. With intermittent green energies we need an enlarged electric grid, so we see wind generators, solar farms and a multitude of variable green technologies with backup batteries are all ugly and use up much land, while also being significantly capital intensive and all while having some safety issues. They are all also going to be unnecessary with the advent of the "SAFIRE GENERATOR" that is safe, costlessly self-fueling, totally green, buildable on any scale on a tiny footprint to safely match local community requirement and it is easily chokeable and 24 hours dependable. It makes all other technologies redundant as in being much less advantageous. It is fusion nuclear powered by nuclear "NUCHEMY" and seen at "AUREON ENERGY.COM". Also learn your new plasma physics, astrophysics, and general Electric Universe Theory at "THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT.COM". This way you can learn your new EU Theory, advanced plasma physics and all needed to fully understand all this new academic material.
this man is a heck of a salesman, however, most of the world's antimony comes from... you guessed it, China
MIT - They really love themselves. They'll tell you how great they are. Some of the worst ideas on the planet and an occasional good one. Not a MIT fan. So this guy has been talking about this for a long time according to my internet mining. Why hasn't it taken the world by storm? I'm thinking he's not being honest. Maybe its an honest mistake, but I'd love to hear the downsides first. When someone leads with their weaknesses to me I am more likely to believe the remainder. So here is my confusion...Doesn't this require a huge amount of energy to make the metal molten? Further if the containment is lost isn't that going to burn the crap out of everything? Once you lack the cycles needed to keep the battery warm, then aren't your batteries super ineffective and inefficient.
Sorry for sniping from casual observation standing, but you have not effectively talked about this I believe.
Another point missed is that if your technology requires tons of material and the competition require micro grams the ratio of use to what is in the crust is meaningless.
BTW: The Amish will be around forever after all electricity is gone and they will pretty much live the same as we do.
Hi Buddy,
As an MIT fan, physics buff, and EE and Comp Sci alumnus not connected in any way with Ambri or Dr. Sadoway, I hope you will allow me to answer some of your questions.
1) Good business sense requires one to neither conceal nor lead with limitations or weaknesses. One should always put ones best foot forward, and later share which kinks are being worked out and which remain.
Productizing a new invention for mass market always takes time.
2) It does require energy to make the metals and salt molten, but then no more is needed during operation for two reasons. The first reason is that once an insulated box is at high temperature, it essentially remains at that temperature, slowly cooling itself by either a) thermal conduction through the insulation to heat the surrounding environment or b) using the thermal energy itself to do work such as cooking, boiling water, etc.
The Ambri battery does not have to worry about b) because using the battery, i.e. discharging, also generates enough heat to maintain temperature.
3) "if the containment is lost isn't that going to burn the crap out of everything?"
As they describe it, the battery is enclosed in a solid steel shell. It does lose containment unless it it ruptured by trauma, which must be quite strong to tear the steel open. It does lose heat though, if not used, or at least cycled, frequently enough. When that happens it does become inefficient and eventually solid again. Not a problem. If it's not getting used for very long periods, you want it to cool down and wait until needed. If it's not getting used for periods short enough, it would pay to use some of its own electricity to maintain its ready temperature.
4) "if your technology requires tons of material and the competition require micro grams the ratio of use to what is in the crust is meaningless". It's not meaningless if you don't consider the differential in the costs of the materials. That depends mainly on the abundance, availability, and cost of obtaining the material. As Prof. Sadoway said "Dirt is "dirt cheap". The salt is dirt cheap (Calcium Chloride) and thrown on roads for de-icing). A quick check of Antimony show it also to be cheap at less than $3.00/lb.
Lithium, on the other hand, costs about $1.00/10 grams, or $45.4/lb. That is over 15 times as much.
It is very important to be skeptical. We need more discussions like this. One doesn't just jump on the bandwagon, for example of solar, wind, etc.. like the Solyndra fiasco, just because "everyone knows the future is solar". This is especially important because the "end doesn't justify the means", which is a leftist motto used to justify anything they wish. The means must justify itself. For example, if one twists two different wires together and put it in a region of relatively higher temperature, electricity is continuously generated. It is very weak and thus too expensive to be practical. If a politician decides that thermocouples are "The answer" and wants to push them with government subsidies (your, mine, and all taxpayers' money), that would be flat out wrong and should rightly be voted down by intelligent legislators representing their constituents.
I think we can agree that neither of us wish to live like the Amish. Technology has increased the quality of life far too much to essentially throw it all away!
I'm a big advocate for battery tech,. But this guy is a snake oil salesman.