Edit: Accuracy tests like these are flawed for click-style length-dependent torque wrenches. Video explaining why : ua-cam.com/video/0f746pF1xc0/v-deo.html
When storing a torque wrench, Always back off the torque setting to the lowest value. This releves the tension on the internal spring and helps maintain a consistent torque value.
park tools torque wrench is made like total crap! I got it and couldnt believe it was made from taiwan and made from plastic. I did some research and I found out it comes from the same factory as the brand "neiko". they sell for like 40 bucks. youre basically paying triple for the trademarked blue color! LOL! I would definitely recommend the "Giustaforza II Professional" over that piece of trash any day. Although pricy, its made in Italy and has a full metal body, absolutely no problems with it so far. note to self and anyone else, only buy park tool products that are made in the US. have a good one folks.
The math is easy enough. You can just fill out an index card, laminate it and tape it to the torque wrench box. The Park tool wrench is expensive because it has to be durable and dependable for bike shop and bike assembly technicians. They're going to use that wrench more in a few days or weeks than average bike owner will to use it for their entire lives. For the garage bike tinkerer, the Handife wrench is good enough. The extra money for the Park would be more wisely spent elsewhere, assuming a limited budget. This is just for general edification purposes, not a criticism of your review. Fasteners are selected by designers/engineers to provide adequate clamping power for whatever is being fastened. More clamping power means a larger fastener. This will vary according to materials. A steel bolt is capable of much more torque than commonly utilized in bicycles because it's so much stronger than the alloy it commonly threads into. A steel stem would be able to get a away with fewer and/or smaller fasteners than an alloy stem would. Multiple fasteners in that application also helps keep clamping force distribution nice and even. As far as accuracy goes, this was only tested at one setting. Whenever a torque wrench is calibrated it must meet (plus or minus a certain percentage) specs all the way up the scale, usually in 20% increments (a 0-100 nm wrench would be tested at 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 nm) if it must meet that plus or minus five percent that means it passes at 19-21 38-42, 57-63, 76-84, and 95-105. In most applications where precision and accuracy are vital the plus or minus allowance may be well below one percent. Wrenches used for these applications are routinely calibrated and only used for tightening fasteners along a certain range of their design scale, typically 1/4 to 7/8 of the scale meaning for a 0-100 nm torque wrench if the specified torque lies outside the 25-87.5 nm range, a different wrench must be used. I certainly wouldn't trust the torque wrench I use for bottom brackets for tightening my stem or brake caliper mounting bolts.
if I am going to be in a bike shop working, I don't want an adjustable torque. Give me set torque tools! as for park tool, do I really want a stamped pedal wrench? no! I'll take a milled down drop forge wrench. at a fraction of the cost. As for your example of tools being used a lot in a shop. that is another reason for not buying park cable cutters! they don't last!
I wouldn’t say park tool torque wrench is professional tbh, probably rebranded craftsman or some other cheap brand, with a 50% mark up because it’s got a bit of blue on it
@@Thecrazyvaclav The Park Tool torque wrenches are actually rebranded Nieko torque wrenches that can be found often on Amazon for about $30. The markup is more like almost 300% to have the name Park Tool on your wrench. I'm amazed that anyone would pay those prices for the PT torque wrenches when for a bit more you could actually get a serious high quality torque wrench from Hazet or Effetto Mariposa or Tohnichi just to name a few. And any one of those three torque wrenches would absolutely blow a Park Tool torque wrench out of the water as far as build quality, accuracy and reliability are concerned.
I am an engineer that works with hand tools every day and have done so for years. I put tools though way more than the average person. That said, I think most Park Tools are over prices for what you get. They really are not that great. There are a few very bike specific tools they make that are just well thought out which makes them nicer to use. But they are still just over priced and the quality isn't the greatest.
@@YaBoyJon for a bike? I honestly use the Park Tool one. I've had it for years. It is fine for the job. I'd have to think about it for another brand. There are a lot of options.
I 100% agree with this comment. Park Tool is almost always an overpriced version of similar tools. Park Tool does a good job making bike specific tools but the name unfortunately requires a significant price increase. If I'm paying the high price I usually opt for a different brand that's not bike specific. My Torque wrenches are all Wera and they are much nicer than the Park Tool.
In my experience , most of the bike specific tools Park makes are excellent. I have no opinion of their products that are general purpose like combination wrench’s, pliers or mallets ect. Because I’ve never used them. Many of the more bike specific tools have little or no other options one can buy. Like the bottom bracket thread chaser and facing tool, Snap-on or Matco just don’t make them. Plus, Park is very responsive in developing new tools as the component manufacturers keep coming up with new bearing assemblies. Feel sorry for shops that have to buy new tools only to have that new bottom bracket standard discontinued after a year or two.
I am an automotive mechanic and from my experience working with carbon fiber, aluminum and steel materials, you must have a torque wrench on lower torque value applications because you do not want to under tighten or over tighten those sensitive areas. However, for applications that are 15 NM and higher, most experienced mechanics can achieve very accurate torque by hand without needing a torque wrench. If you go to an authorized retailer for brands such as Trek, Specialized, Giant, Kona, Santa Cruz, the mechanics would almost never use a torque wrench. They would just go by feel using their hex wrenchs. The only places where I've seen a torque wrench being used are boutique shops that sell exotic road bikes, especially ones that sell $20,000 road bikes in expensive neighborhoods. Most mountain bike shops I visit never use a torque wrench. When I buying my bike from an authorized retailer of an extremely popular brand (I won't mention brand), I saw the mechanic assemble an entire bike without a torque wrench in sight.
Also, when a bike from Santa Cruz, Specialized, Trek, Giant, and many other brands are being in Taiwan in large volume production, I can guarantee that the factory workers would not be using a torque wrench. This is why personally, when I pick up my new bikes, I would loosen all the bolts on the bike that have a torque value written on or near it, then retighten them with a Park Tool torque wrench. This gives me a piece of mind. I also use the Park Tool Torque wrench for delicate applications on cars.
@@hammertimee777 that’s the way to do it! and the reason why they don’t use torque is because it’s time consuming, imagine how many bikes a bike mechanic has to build? Lots, they don’t have time to adjust the torque for all parts.
When you use vertical axis and horizontal handle (3 o'clock) you must take into consideration weight of the tool (gravity). It is much more accurate to place rotation axis vertical with tool spinning horizontally and use pull/hang scale (fishing/luggage) to measure applied force. Also at such a low values, even small discrepancies in the distance of the angle of applied force result in large error readings. In this case quality torque meter would be appropriate (but it is +500$ toy).
You really only need the torque wrench for higher torque stuff to make sure it's enough. For those handlebar 5Nm and 3Nm screws you can just do by hand once you know it. You can get a cheap plastic plate hex tool for that like Canyon and Topeak have.
@@Raumance You really only need a torque wrench for stuff which requires torque wrench ;) If you are playing with high precision toys like hobby gas turbine for RC planes 3-5Nm range error can be catastrophic! Nobody cares about it on bicycle but I came across this video not because of the bike, but because of the torque wrench. Therefore my comment applies all to other cases, however I fully agree that for 99% of bicycle work you dont need a torque wrench at all ;) Cheers :*
@@ryteulopki8069Just thought I’d suggest you get yourself a digital torque wrench if you’re looking for the highest accuracy possible, without spending an absolute fortune. I also run rc vehicles, specifically a nitro off-road buggy. Anyway, even some of the very reasonably priced digital torque wrench’s are just stupidly accurate, for the money. I’ve even seen cheapo eBay digital torque wrench adapters, which use a regular ratchet and you attach the device to your ratchet, and even those are far more accurate than even a very good, $150-$200ish torque wrench. I watched a revue of several of them and the guy was at a metrology lab where they had lab grade equipment, specifically for testing and calibrating torque wrenches. And the $60 digital torque adapter was within 0.5%-1.0% accuracy, beating EVERY mechanical wrench by a decent margin. And that’s not even thinking about how good an actual digital torque wrench is, as opposed to an adapter. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Hope it’s of some use to you.
Thank you for sharing this comparison. Illuminating. Surprising about the parktool torque. Have you considered double checking the actual weight of your ten pound weight?
Another consideration is how distinct the "click" is when reaching the set torque. My old BBB torque wrench had a barely discernible click at low torque settings. After missing the click on a few occasions, I trashed the thing in favor of a 1/4" automotive torque wrench with a design similar to the Handife one. That BBB torque wrench had a torque scale similar to the Park one, but the red indicator line was so far in front of the scale that if you weren't careful to look at it straight on, parallax could cause the reading to be off by as much as 2Nm. I think the Handife scale is a better design, but I do agree that the primary calibration should be in Newton-meters.
I just got myself the BBB torque wrench. It's my first one so I have nothign to compare it against. Both your comments are true though, you need to be very careful to hear the click, and mostly see the torque wrench bend a little when reaching the torque. As far as reading torque settings, I'm never quite sure if it's spot on, so I tend to use the lower value, if that makes sense.
This reminds me of when I used to test the torque capabilities of submarine servos. I'd attach a crude wheel with some string around it, then hang weights on a hook to ensure the servo had enough torque to prevent the wheel turning. Crude considering it was precision stuff for military submarines, but it did the trick.
Another item to note with torque wrenches is the calibration done in the factory before purchase, and regularly throughout the life of the tool. From a quick search, it looks like Park Tool has a straightforward service to send in your tool to have it re-calibrated. That's a nice service to offer to support the quality of the tool!
interesting video, good idea how you tested the accuracy, however it's quite hard to know how accurate this test really is... in Europe there are standards for tools, so normal torque wrenches are typically +-4% accurate and higher end models have up to +-2% (I found a number of +-4% for the park tool, but no mention of a certificate or any standard so I don't really know what to make of it.) not sure if park tool actually make their torque wrench themselves or if they just buy it from somewhere and put their sticker on it. in any case I don't think park tool represents top of the line... in my experience park tool tools are ok but not at all top of the line, they just have a strong brand (and thus are in my opinion a bit overpriced)
I wouldn’t call park tool high end tbh, it’ll be a rebranded cheap torque wrench with a bit of blue plastic on it for a 150% mark up. Norbar, Wera, Cyclo Are all better than the park one
What a great review! You hit all the key elements, and thanks for the testing, very surprising about the Park Tool.. hmm.. hopefully someone from Park will contact you. Great channel.
Exactly. For what the Park TW-6.2 costs I paid about $10 more and got a brand new Hazet 5108-2CT torque wrench off Amazon. An exponentially better made and performing tool. I'm amazed anyone would drop over $100 on a cheap Taiwanese made Park Tool torque wrench that is nothing, but a cheap rebranded Nieko torque wrench that you could buy for about $30.
Other than the silly price I would never consider a Park Tool torque wrench a top end tool. The Park Tool TW-5.2 and TW-6.2 torque wrenches are nothing, but cheap rebranded Nieko torque wrenches that can be found often on Amazon for about $30. The markup on the PT torque wrenches is almost 300% over their actual worth just to have the name Park Tool on your wrench. I'm amazed that anyone would pay those prices for the PT torque wrenches when for a bit more you could actually get a serious high quality torque wrench from Hazet or Effetto Mariposa or Tohnichi just to name a few. And any one of those three torque wrenches would absolutely blow a Park Tool torque wrench out of the water as far as build quality, accuracy and reliability are concerned.
$210 vs $70 = no-brainer... tightening bolts isn't Rocket Science :-) Snap-On vs Harbor Freight... I'll go with HF any day of the week, and I can afford both... both have lifetime warranty. Now Craftsman is made in China too... Thanks!!!
What's with all the torque wrench use on bicycles? I was a motorcycle, watercraft mechanic for over a decade and have also been around a lot of auto and marine mechanics, and torque wrenches don't leave the toolbox unless you're putting together an engine.
Carbon fiber bike frames and components require a torque wrench due to the overtightening fasteners on a CF component by even a small amount can crush or crack them. Years ago when bikes and bike components were all alloys torque wrenches were not needed. Nowadays with all the high performance CF components and frames no respectable shop would not have and use multiple torque wrenches pretty much every day. Same for owners doing their own repair work.
I wouldn't call any Park Tool staff "top of the line" at all. They are overpriced, over adverted and absolutely not "top of the line" quality. Top of the line tools are starting somewhere else, not on Park Tool level. Basically Lezyne, Birzman easily wash them off regarding of bike tools, if we go to the level of Wera, Bahco, etc. they are just nowhere near. Poor quality and their price do not represent the expected quality at all. BIG NOOO for Park Tool staff.
DISLIKE! Terrible test, but it is a very nice FLAWED video. The problem is that the type of torque wrench you use, is measuring torque based on the ratio of two rotation points. The two rotation points are: The actual rotation point where your screw would be, and the rivet where the tool rotates when it "clicks". These tools give you different measurements based on where you apply torque on the tool it self and they should provide the most accurate measurement in the middle of there handle. In your test you gave parktool a big disadvantage by putting the weight farther from the middle of the handle, than the cheap tools. Here is a video, that might explain it better: ua-cam.com/video/Fwfnf06dl84/v-deo.html In your test you should have put your weight in the middle of the handle on each tool, and adjust the weight accordingly to achieve the same torque. Bonus tip: Always put away your torque wrench in 0 torque setting. Not doing this will stress the spring and make your tool inaccurate much much faster.
Just found your update video on the same issue, you should really pin comment it under this video, so people could find it easier. (i see you put that into the description, but pinned comment is better in my opinion)
Parktool doesn't produce anything and those torque wrenches aren't high end. You can buy better torque wrenches made in Germany for maybe 30% higher price.
Incidentally, what I've found is that Park is worth paying for when it's a bike specific thing, and then I pay for high quality tools from dedicated tool brands on 'general' tools. Park makes very solid tools, but if you're already paying a premium, the 'pure' tool brands are worth looking into. Lately I've been very impressed with Tekton for hand tools (not just for bikes). Their torque wrench looks based off the same open mold design the one you have is. For allen keys, PB swiss is absolutely top teir, and I recently splurged on a Nepros ratchet (not just for bikes, again) and it's sublime. Park is like folgers coffee: You can certainly do better, but it's reliably good.
Two major issues with this video: cheap weight plates often fluctuate by as much as 20% from their printed weight. Also, you mention that the park wrench has seen a year's worth of regular use. I'm not sure about Park's recommended service interval but amy torque wrench I've ever owned should be serviced at regular intervals - usually annually with regular use.
Completely agree with the variation in weight plate mass, just using a scale to calibrate would've been great, but torque wrenches usually stay within spec for a long time, even under use. And even when they drift, the changes are more often than not insignificant.
I went through 3 replacement Park Tool 5.2 before I got a good one. 1st the adjustment knob unscrewed itself, 2nd and 3rd it wouldn’t click below 8nm, 4th is fine. You also pay for the basically no questions asked support.
@@TheBikeSauce Actually, their support is pretty good. I had three PT tools (out of quite a few) that were defective and they replaced them free of charge.
For me, the difference between higher vs. lower quality/cost tools has been the quality of the metal and how the tools wear over time (think screwdrivers and wrenches). But for a precision tool like torque wrenches, I suppose it's all about calibration (initial and over time). For the former, the consumer can only depend that the calibration sheets provided are accurate, but there is little chance we will verify accuracy (unlike you). For the latter, we are even more in the dark (how many people send their torque wrenches in regularly to be calibrated?). So for a precision tool, the end user like me is running on faith alone.
I just recently bought an Extol Premium 1-6Nm torque wrench, which is a derivative version of the "budget" option featured in this video (also available in a 5-25Nm version). It has a much more premium build, finish, and accuracy, while addressing those issues with the markings mentioned here (Extol has both Nm and lbsf.in markings on the collar as well). Overall, the Extol is a much better deal for a fraction of the price of that ParkTool
Park Tool sells parts for their tools, even those they used to make before I was born, so you can fix them for 1/10 of their price, instead of just replacing them.
They all suck. You tap the head and you have to recalibrate them so you'll never know if you're getting a correct torquing. I stick to pre-set torque wrenches like Park Tools' sets. No muss, no fuss. Just use and move on.
Nice review, thanks. It would have been nice, though, to see how far you needed to adjust the Park Tool before it didn't click. Does the next 0.2Nm not click, or is it further out than that?
As evidenced by this test, the reality is that the torque figures in manuals and components are very approximative. The engineers who designed these parts know that torque wrenches are most often than not loosely calibrated. To me that's enough of a reason to get the budget tool, even if a more precise instrument were to be available. The fact that you're using a torque wrench in the first place means already put you way ahead, and ensures the likelihood of snapping a bolt or crushing a tube is very low. It also eliminates double takes. Click the torque wrench and you know you're done, unlike doing things manually, where you might come back to double-check or make adjustments.
Nothing. My favorite torque wrench is a Hazet 5108-2ct 1/4' drive torque wrench. Got it on amazon at a steep discount for $140. Basically the same price as the Park Tool torque wrench and the Hazet is an exponentially better piece of equipment.
Park Tool comes with a case , Handife comes with a case and 21 piece bike tool kit . While getting more for less sounds good , I would question the longevity of the Handife . Nice write man
Yes BUT many times are you going to be stripping whole bikes. or are you going to tighten 2 bolts once every 4 months. Consumers don't need the same amount of reliability as the professional stuff.
The experiment in this video uses this precise discrepancy to demonstrate the bias in applied torque vs measured. In short - you're right, and I'm leveraging that fact in this video to make a point.
I have the Park wrench and i haven’t used it as much as i thought I would’ve. I believe Park says you’re supposed to send it back to Park once a year to have it recalibrated. I have yet to do that and I’ve had it for a few years, this makes me think i should probably do that?
I would say that park tool isn't the same as 'before' in terms of quality.. but in this case it could be because of life span? My brother who is a car mechanic told me that torque wrenches need to be calibrated from time to time (depends from how much you are using it). Inside there is a spring which can stretch over time. Because of that it is good for a torque wrench to always leave it (after work or over night) at the lowest possible Nm position.
It is critical to back off the setting when done. The spring will sack sitting with extra force for extended time. Its often referred to as zeroing the wrench but like you say many wrenches don't go to zero. You want to go to the lowest indication and stop. There is typically a light mechanical stop but if you push the issue you may actually disassemble the thing. Also you want to always turn the knob in a increasing direction to desired setting, stopping at desired amount, never a decreasing direction. If you do one setting and then need a lower setting, be sure to turn the knob to lowest setting or at least much lower than desired and then bring it back up.
Or it could simply be expensive or not it's just not a good tool. It's not the first review I have come across that state park tools aren't always that good.
Once you understand what Torque wrenches like these are actually measuring (running torque) Vs. what you want to measure (Preload or clamping force) and how they are effected by lubricants, anti-seize, grip paste, locking compounds, rust, dirt, temperature, humidity, thread pitch, surface area, etc. You will realize that a torque wrench is next to useless for most bike applications and very small fixings in general.
These are the things that drive me crazy in 99% of assembly videos. Even with the soft, trippy mood music and gentle application of “just enough grease”….torque values are absolutely skewed after that. Metal on metal vs any kind of lubricant/anti-seize/ etc, are going to be notably off, and if we are talking bike torque values of 3lbs, a plus/minus of 1 can mean a lot.
@@jeremyprovonsil7886 LOL, I don't remember making that comment seems I was in a bit of a mood that day, very passive aggressive. I stand by it but "useless" is probably a bit strong. The torque values are probably there more as a guide to stop people breaking stuff through over tightening, and the company themselves probably set them assuming the fixings are likely to be greased or otherwise contaminated. I forget sometimes that not everyone is used to handling tools regularly or professionally and that companies think about stuff like that more often than I give them credit for. Still, if you think what the wench says is what you just applied, in reality it wont be.
Hey I’m getting a RockShox fork for my rockhopper sport 29 and I got a few Questions. What size axle is it How big of a offset is it Is it a straight or tampered and will 1-1/8 inch work Thanks!
Glad to see your edit, re: position of applying force needs to be centered in the designated grip area. Moving a weight elsewhere is not a simple matter of calculating the lever arm length, because the click comes from bending a beam internally, and that depends on a specific place of applied force on the grip area.
No it doesn’t! Only a DEFLECTING BEAM style torque wrench works the way you described. The ones in this vid have no such beam anther in the device. Did you happen to notice that the handle must be screwed in or out to adjust the torque setting? That’s because there’s a SPRING inside the handle, which applies more or less tension to the clicker, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do it’s any beams bending.
Edit: Accuracy tests like these are flawed for click-style length-dependent torque wrenches. Video explaining why : ua-cam.com/video/0f746pF1xc0/v-deo.html
When storing a torque wrench, Always back off the torque setting to the lowest value. This releves the tension on the internal spring and helps maintain a consistent torque value.
Appreciate that
park tools torque wrench is made like total crap! I got it and couldnt believe it was made from taiwan and made from plastic. I did some research and I found out it comes from the same factory as the brand "neiko". they sell for like 40 bucks. youre basically paying triple for the trademarked blue color! LOL! I would definitely recommend the "Giustaforza II Professional" over that piece of trash any day. Although pricy, its made in Italy and has a full metal body, absolutely no problems with it so far. note to self and anyone else, only buy park tool products that are made in the US. have a good one folks.
The math is easy enough. You can just fill out an index card, laminate it and tape it to the torque wrench box.
The Park tool wrench is expensive because it has to be durable and dependable for bike shop and bike assembly technicians.
They're going to use that wrench more in a few days or weeks than average bike owner will to use it for their entire lives.
For the garage bike tinkerer, the Handife wrench is good enough. The extra money for the Park would be more wisely spent elsewhere, assuming a limited budget.
This is just for general edification purposes, not a criticism of your review.
Fasteners are selected by designers/engineers to provide adequate clamping power for whatever is being fastened. More clamping power means a larger fastener. This will vary according to materials. A steel bolt is capable of much more torque than commonly utilized in bicycles because it's so much stronger than the alloy it commonly threads into. A steel stem would be able to get a away with fewer and/or smaller fasteners than an alloy stem would. Multiple fasteners in that application also helps keep clamping force distribution nice and even.
As far as accuracy goes, this was only tested at one setting. Whenever a torque wrench is calibrated it must meet (plus or minus a certain percentage) specs all the way up the scale, usually in 20% increments (a 0-100 nm wrench would be tested at 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 nm) if it must meet that plus or minus five percent that means it passes at 19-21 38-42, 57-63, 76-84, and 95-105.
In most applications where precision and accuracy are vital the plus or minus allowance may be well below one percent. Wrenches used for these applications are routinely calibrated and only used for tightening fasteners along a certain range of their design scale, typically 1/4 to 7/8 of the scale meaning for a 0-100 nm torque wrench if the specified torque lies outside the 25-87.5 nm range, a different wrench must be used. I certainly wouldn't trust the torque wrench I use for bottom brackets for tightening my stem or brake caliper mounting bolts.
if I am going to be in a bike shop working, I don't want an adjustable torque. Give me set torque tools! as for park tool, do I really want a stamped pedal wrench? no! I'll take a milled down drop forge wrench. at a fraction of the cost. As for your example of tools being used a lot in a shop. that is another reason for not buying park cable cutters! they don't last!
Idk about a budget a torque wrench, when it comes to bike tools I would only trust park tool tools on anything I’m doing on my bikes
Unior are better quality for similar prices.
Cyclus,
Var,
Bitul,
Are as good for cheaper.
Park are overpriced for the quality of a lot of their tools.
I wouldn’t say park tool torque wrench is professional tbh, probably rebranded craftsman or some other cheap brand, with a 50% mark up because it’s got a bit of blue on it
@@Thecrazyvaclav The Park Tool torque wrenches are actually rebranded Nieko torque wrenches that can be found often on Amazon for about $30. The markup is more like almost 300% to have the name Park Tool on your wrench. I'm amazed that anyone would pay those prices for the PT torque wrenches when for a bit more you could actually get a serious high quality torque wrench from Hazet or Effetto Mariposa or Tohnichi just to name a few. And any one of those three torque wrenches would absolutely blow a Park Tool torque wrench out of the water as far as build quality, accuracy and reliability are concerned.
Effetto Mariposa Guistaforza 2
Accept noooo substitute.
If only we could all afford a $350 torque wrench 😆. Perhaps one day
Tamsak done npo idol Kapalanga
Complains about the value tool being biased towards imperial units.
*Designs his test using imperial units.*
I am an engineer that works with hand tools every day and have done so for years. I put tools though way more than the average person. That said, I think most Park Tools are over prices for what you get. They really are not that great. There are a few very bike specific tools they make that are just well thought out which makes them nicer to use. But they are still just over priced and the quality isn't the greatest.
Perhaps not the most high end boutique tools, but Park tool undeniably represents professional level tools found in every shop
which torque wrench do you recommend?
@@YaBoyJon for a bike? I honestly use the Park Tool one. I've had it for years. It is fine for the job. I'd have to think about it for another brand. There are a lot of options.
I 100% agree with this comment. Park Tool is almost always an overpriced version of similar tools. Park Tool does a good job making bike specific tools but the name unfortunately requires a significant price increase. If I'm paying the high price I usually opt for a different brand that's not bike specific. My Torque wrenches are all Wera and they are much nicer than the Park Tool.
In my experience , most of the bike specific tools Park makes are excellent. I have no opinion of their products that are general purpose like combination wrench’s, pliers or mallets ect. Because I’ve never used them.
Many of the more bike specific tools have little or no other options one can buy. Like the bottom bracket thread chaser and facing tool, Snap-on or Matco just don’t make them.
Plus, Park is very responsive in developing new tools as the component manufacturers keep coming up with new bearing assemblies. Feel sorry for shops that have to buy new tools only to have that new bottom bracket standard discontinued after a year or two.
I just ordered the Park TW 5.2. But they're both probably made in the same Chinese factory.
I am an automotive mechanic and from my experience working with carbon fiber, aluminum and steel materials, you must have a torque wrench on lower torque value applications because you do not want to under tighten or over tighten those sensitive areas. However, for applications that are 15 NM and higher, most experienced mechanics can achieve very accurate torque by hand without needing a torque wrench. If you go to an authorized retailer for brands such as Trek, Specialized, Giant, Kona, Santa Cruz, the mechanics would almost never use a torque wrench. They would just go by feel using their hex wrenchs. The only places where I've seen a torque wrench being used are boutique shops that sell exotic road bikes, especially ones that sell $20,000 road bikes in expensive neighborhoods. Most mountain bike shops I visit never use a torque wrench. When I buying my bike from an authorized retailer of an extremely popular brand (I won't mention brand), I saw the mechanic assemble an entire bike without a torque wrench in sight.
Also, when a bike from Santa Cruz, Specialized, Trek, Giant, and many other brands are being in Taiwan in large volume production, I can guarantee that the factory workers would not be using a torque wrench. This is why personally, when I pick up my new bikes, I would loosen all the bolts on the bike that have a torque value written on or near it, then retighten them with a Park Tool torque wrench. This gives me a piece of mind. I also use the Park Tool Torque wrench for delicate applications on cars.
Experienced mechanics at specialized achieved so accurate torque by hand in my SJ that they damaged the head socketpivot bolt in pivot bolt...
@@hammertimee777 that’s the way to do it! and the reason why they don’t use torque is because it’s time consuming, imagine how many bikes a bike mechanic has to build? Lots, they don’t have time to adjust the torque for all parts.
When you use vertical axis and horizontal handle (3 o'clock) you must take into consideration weight of the tool (gravity).
It is much more accurate to place rotation axis vertical with tool spinning horizontally and use pull/hang scale (fishing/luggage) to measure applied force.
Also at such a low values, even small discrepancies in the distance of the angle of applied force result in large error readings. In this case quality torque meter would be appropriate (but it is +500$ toy).
You really only need the torque wrench for higher torque stuff to make sure it's enough. For those handlebar 5Nm and 3Nm screws you can just do by hand once you know it. You can get a cheap plastic plate hex tool for that like Canyon and Topeak have.
@@Raumance You really only need a torque wrench for stuff which requires torque wrench ;) If you are playing with high precision toys like hobby gas turbine for RC planes 3-5Nm range error can be catastrophic! Nobody cares about it on bicycle but I came across this video not because of the bike, but because of the torque wrench. Therefore my comment applies all to other cases, however I fully agree that for 99% of bicycle work you dont need a torque wrench at all ;)
Cheers :*
@@ryteulopki8069Just thought I’d suggest you get yourself a digital torque wrench if you’re looking for the highest accuracy possible, without spending an absolute fortune. I also run rc vehicles, specifically a nitro off-road buggy. Anyway, even some of the very reasonably priced digital torque wrench’s are just stupidly accurate, for the money. I’ve even seen cheapo eBay digital torque wrench adapters, which use a regular ratchet and you attach the device to your ratchet, and even those are far more accurate than even a very good, $150-$200ish torque wrench. I watched a revue of several of them and the guy was at a metrology lab where they had lab grade equipment, specifically for testing and calibrating torque wrenches. And the $60 digital torque adapter was within 0.5%-1.0% accuracy, beating EVERY mechanical wrench by a decent margin. And that’s not even thinking about how good an actual digital torque wrench is, as opposed to an adapter.
Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Hope it’s of some use to you.
Thank you for sharing this comparison. Illuminating. Surprising about the parktool torque. Have you considered double checking the actual weight of your ten pound weight?
Another consideration is how distinct the "click" is when reaching the set torque. My old BBB torque wrench had a barely discernible click at low torque settings. After missing the click on a few occasions, I trashed the thing in favor of a 1/4" automotive torque wrench with a design similar to the Handife one.
That BBB torque wrench had a torque scale similar to the Park one, but the red indicator line was so far in front of the scale that if you weren't careful to look at it straight on, parallax could cause the reading to be off by as much as 2Nm. I think the Handife scale is a better design, but I do agree that the primary calibration should be in Newton-meters.
Right on. Great feedback
I just got myself the BBB torque wrench. It's my first one so I have nothign to compare it against. Both your comments are true though, you need to be very careful to hear the click, and mostly see the torque wrench bend a little when reaching the torque. As far as reading torque settings, I'm never quite sure if it's spot on, so I tend to use the lower value, if that makes sense.
This reminds me of when I used to test the torque capabilities of submarine servos. I'd attach a crude wheel with some string around it, then hang weights on a hook to ensure the servo had enough torque to prevent the wheel turning. Crude considering it was precision stuff for military submarines, but it did the trick.
Another item to note with torque wrenches is the calibration done in the factory before purchase, and regularly throughout the life of the tool. From a quick search, it looks like Park Tool has a straightforward service to send in your tool to have it re-calibrated. That's a nice service to offer to support the quality of the tool!
Parktool = top of the line?... Meh. But I agree you don't need top of the line, but man it feels good owning a proper wera/pb swiss etc toolset.
so true park tool is BS
@@tetaizozadja7080 maybe not bs, but definitely not top of the line, just a strong brand and a bit overpriced
2 options. Both are junk. We are now at a time when most people have know idea what quality is.
Maybe learn proper grammar before you insult most people
@@TheBikeSauce I've seen far worse grammar than that - what's the issue? Additionally, I think his Alessandro's point is entirely valid.
interesting video, good idea how you tested the accuracy, however it's quite hard to know how accurate this test really is...
in Europe there are standards for tools, so normal torque wrenches are typically +-4% accurate and higher end models have up to +-2% (I found a number of +-4% for the park tool, but no mention of a certificate or any standard so I don't really know what to make of it.) not sure if park tool actually make their torque wrench themselves or if they just buy it from somewhere and put their sticker on it. in any case I don't think park tool represents top of the line... in my experience park tool tools are ok but not at all top of the line, they just have a strong brand (and thus are in my opinion a bit overpriced)
I wouldn’t call park tool high end tbh, it’ll be a rebranded cheap torque wrench with a bit of blue plastic on it for a 150% mark up.
Norbar,
Wera,
Cyclo
Are all better than the park one
What a great review! You hit all the key elements, and thanks for the testing, very surprising about the Park Tool.. hmm.. hopefully someone from Park will contact you. Great channel.
Thx Paul!
Good to see you back in the comments!
@@TheBikeSauce so what torque wrench do you recommend, i just got my first carbon bike, I don't have any torque wrench ?
Man, I really like and appreciate how you explain things and deliver information in a clear, concise and transparent way. Please, keep making videos!
For the price of the Park Tool Torque wrench you can get a +/- 3% calibrated wrench from Hazet that actually clicks at lower torques.
Exactly. For what the Park TW-6.2 costs I paid about $10 more and got a brand new Hazet 5108-2CT torque wrench off Amazon. An exponentially better made and performing tool. I'm amazed anyone would drop over $100 on a cheap Taiwanese made Park Tool torque wrench that is nothing, but a cheap rebranded Nieko torque wrench that you could buy for about $30.
I can highly recommend Effeto Mariposa if it's within your budget. Haven't tried the park tool one, but I'm sure it'll get the work done as well.
Other than the silly price I would never consider a Park Tool torque wrench a top end tool.
The Park Tool TW-5.2 and TW-6.2 torque wrenches are nothing, but cheap rebranded Nieko torque wrenches that can be found often on Amazon for about $30. The markup on the PT torque wrenches is almost 300% over their actual worth just to have the name Park Tool on your wrench. I'm amazed that anyone would pay those prices for the PT torque wrenches when for a bit more you could actually get a serious high quality torque wrench from Hazet or Effetto Mariposa or Tohnichi just to name a few. And any one of those three torque wrenches would absolutely blow a Park Tool torque wrench out of the water as far as build quality, accuracy and reliability are concerned.
All very interesting, but you should get your torque wrench calibrated, periodically.
$210 vs $70 = no-brainer... tightening bolts isn't Rocket Science :-) Snap-On vs Harbor Freight... I'll go with HF any day of the week, and I can afford both... both have lifetime warranty. Now Craftsman is made in China too... Thanks!!!
FWIW, Craftsman tools are mostly made in India. I don’t know if that’s better or worse, however.
Why make a comparison video when you haven’t used one of the wrenches at all aside from a few tests for the video?
What's with all the torque wrench use on bicycles? I was a motorcycle, watercraft mechanic for over a decade and have also been around a lot of auto and marine mechanics, and torque wrenches don't leave the toolbox unless you're putting together an engine.
Back when everything was steel and overbuilt, we didn’t need torque as much. With everything going lighter and carbon, torque is more important
Carbon fiber bike frames and components require a torque wrench due to the overtightening fasteners on a CF component by even a small amount can crush or crack them. Years ago when bikes and bike components were all alloys torque wrenches were not needed. Nowadays with all the high performance CF components and frames no respectable shop would not have and use multiple torque wrenches pretty much every day. Same for owners doing their own repair work.
@@rcg9573 You think I should throw away my carbon bike since I never used a torque wrench on it?
Or work for a company that will calibrate them for free. 🤷♂️
I wouldn't call any Park Tool staff "top of the line" at all. They are overpriced, over adverted and absolutely not "top of the line" quality. Top of the line tools are starting somewhere else, not on Park Tool level. Basically Lezyne, Birzman easily wash them off regarding of bike tools, if we go to the level of Wera, Bahco, etc. they are just nowhere near. Poor quality and their price do not represent the expected quality at all. BIG NOOO for Park Tool staff.
Agree, they sponsored so many "pros" that others think it is top level stuff...
You didn't account for the weight of the wrench itself, fwiw.
DISLIKE!
Terrible test, but it is a very nice FLAWED video. The problem is that the type of torque wrench you use, is measuring torque based on the ratio of two rotation points. The two rotation points are: The actual rotation point where your screw would be, and the rivet where the tool rotates when it "clicks". These tools give you different measurements based on where you apply torque on the tool it self and they should provide the most accurate measurement in the middle of there handle. In your test you gave parktool a big disadvantage by putting the weight farther from the middle of the handle, than the cheap tools.
Here is a video, that might explain it better: ua-cam.com/video/Fwfnf06dl84/v-deo.html
In your test you should have put your weight in the middle of the handle on each tool, and adjust the weight accordingly to achieve the same torque.
Bonus tip: Always put away your torque wrench in 0 torque setting. Not doing this will stress the spring and make your tool inaccurate much much faster.
Just found your update video on the same issue, you should really pin comment it under this video, so people could find it easier. (i see you put that into the description, but pinned comment is better in my opinion)
Parktool doesn't produce anything and those torque wrenches aren't high end. You can buy better torque wrenches made in Germany for maybe 30% higher price.
What brand?
Park Tools aren't top of the line torque wrenchs...
I use the Pro Bike Tool and no complaints so far.
park tool are good, but most of the business is to be fancy and good looking tools
Incidentally, what I've found is that Park is worth paying for when it's a bike specific thing, and then I pay for high quality tools from dedicated tool brands on 'general' tools. Park makes very solid tools, but if you're already paying a premium, the 'pure' tool brands are worth looking into. Lately I've been very impressed with Tekton for hand tools (not just for bikes). Their torque wrench looks based off the same open mold design the one you have is. For allen keys, PB swiss is absolutely top teir, and I recently splurged on a Nepros ratchet (not just for bikes, again) and it's sublime. Park is like folgers coffee: You can certainly do better, but it's reliably good.
have you seen wera?
@@ignaciosevil2157 I've since switched to Wera and havea full set of their hex keys. Very nice stuff.
Two major issues with this video: cheap weight plates often fluctuate by as much as 20% from their printed weight. Also, you mention that the park wrench has seen a year's worth of regular use. I'm not sure about Park's recommended service interval but amy torque wrench I've ever owned should be serviced at regular intervals - usually annually with regular use.
Completely agree with the variation in weight plate mass, just using a scale to calibrate would've been great, but torque wrenches usually stay within spec for a long time, even under use. And even when they drift, the changes are more often than not insignificant.
I went through 3 replacement Park Tool 5.2 before I got a good one. 1st the adjustment knob unscrewed itself, 2nd and 3rd it wouldn’t click below 8nm, 4th is fine. You also pay for the basically no questions asked support.
Nice. Good that park stands behind their stuff
@@TheBikeSauce Actually, their support is pretty good. I had three PT tools (out of quite a few) that were defective and they replaced them free of charge.
The Park tool isn’t supposed to click in the lower range.
For me, the difference between higher vs. lower quality/cost tools has been the quality of the metal and how the tools wear over time (think screwdrivers and wrenches). But for a precision tool like torque wrenches, I suppose it's all about calibration (initial and over time). For the former, the consumer can only depend that the calibration sheets provided are accurate, but there is little chance we will verify accuracy (unlike you). For the latter, we are even more in the dark (how many people send their torque wrenches in regularly to be calibrated?). So for a precision tool, the end user like me is running on faith alone.
Haha true story
if you don't have any standards, in europe tools have standards :)
I just recently bought an Extol Premium 1-6Nm torque wrench, which is a derivative version of the "budget" option featured in this video (also available in a 5-25Nm version). It has a much more premium build, finish, and accuracy, while addressing those issues with the markings mentioned here (Extol has both Nm and lbsf.in markings on the collar as well). Overall, the Extol is a much better deal for a fraction of the price of that ParkTool
Many thanks. Spotted a very similar budget wrench on my local online shopping. Interesting that the scale isn't so bike friendly, will keep hunting 👍🏻
Park Tool sells parts for their tools, even those they used to make before I was born, so you can fix them for 1/10 of their price, instead of just replacing them.
das kann man auch etwas kompakter rüberbringen
Park Tool would be better without the rubber handle and with the knurled metal. The rubber will degrade or go sticky over time.
It’s not rubber actually. It’s some type of molded hard plastic. Should be pretty durable
Bought a torque wrench with scale biased to foot pound, thinking it's not an issue. It's beyond annoying. Definitely a deal breaker.
The park isn't a high end tourqe wrench.
👍
Great breakdown nice experiment nice thinking but damnit I am right back where I started
I use the ole eyecrometer to torque fasteners.
Tight = too tight
Too tight = stripped/broken
Save your money for trail bells and custom stem caps!!
They all suck. You tap the head and you have to recalibrate them so you'll never know if you're getting a correct torquing. I stick to pre-set torque wrenches like Park Tools' sets. No muss, no fuss. Just use and move on.
Wera
FYI, ICYMI ,do not use the torque wrench to loosen bolts. For Torque only. Also store your wrench on the lowest setting. Check your instructions.
Insightful and appreciated
the most accurate budget torque wrench is a hand scale, a ruler(to measure the length of your allen key), and a calculator.
Nice review, thanks. It would have been nice, though, to see how far you needed to adjust the Park Tool before it didn't click. Does the next 0.2Nm not click, or is it further out than that?
Should have included that. I needed to slide the mass inward about .5” before it didn’t click
@@TheBikeSauce what would that equate to in regards to Nm? Essentially how off was the Park Tool? Do you reset the tool to 2Nm after use?
park tool is overpriced BS
K
i might add that maybe your weights itself are not calibrated to the specified label of 10 lbs haha just saying
I about to buy a torque wrench but im second guessing,maybe I'll use my hand intuition instead..
Watching
Park tools are overpriced. Alwayd been a big fan of Pedros tools personally
how about super b? can you comment on this brand :)
As evidenced by this test, the reality is that the torque figures in manuals and components are very approximative. The engineers who designed these parts know that torque wrenches are most often than not loosely calibrated. To me that's enough of a reason to get the budget tool, even if a more precise instrument were to be available. The fact that you're using a torque wrench in the first place means already put you way ahead, and ensures the likelihood of snapping a bolt or crushing a tube is very low. It also eliminates double takes. Click the torque wrench and you know you're done, unlike doing things manually, where you might come back to double-check or make adjustments.
sharp point. agreed.
Why do you have to use a “bike” torque wrench? What’s wrong with an automotive use 1/4 drive torque wrench?
Nothing. My favorite torque wrench is a Hazet 5108-2ct 1/4' drive torque wrench. Got it on amazon at a steep discount for $140. Basically the same price as the Park Tool torque wrench and the Hazet is an exponentially better piece of equipment.
Great video. I hope you don’t actually speak like this in real life, I’d be annoyed within 5 minutes. My goodness you sound like a robot
Beep boop beep 🤘
Park Tool comes with a case , Handife comes with a case and 21 piece bike tool kit . While getting more for less sounds good , I would question the longevity of the Handife . Nice write man
Good point. Will have to see about long term consistency
Yes BUT many times are you going to be stripping whole bikes. or are you going to tighten 2 bolts once every 4 months. Consumers don't need the same amount of reliability as the professional stuff.
Don’t need a torque wrench to strip bikes
@@gaza4543 Baloney ! as a "Consumer" I buy qulity tools because I dont want to buy them twice !
@@TheBikeSauce true
funny to me the park tool is the cheap option
How are you taking into account the torque from the weight of the handle?
Compared to a 10lb point mass, I’m considering the handle weight negligible (Crude? Maybe a little)
@@TheBikeSauce you could measure it by adjusting the torque until just the weight of the handle clicks it
Good thought, but the weight of the handle wouldn’t engage it even at the lowest setting
2-14 Nm park tool? BS my bike has a lot of 19Nm bolts and I use x tools tourqe wrench for 40€
All mechanics use multiple torque wrenches to cover the range
You have to apply the force to the middle of the handle, otherwise you get wrong results. See also: ua-cam.com/video/BPe1-bDFVRM/v-deo.html
The experiment in this video uses this precise discrepancy to demonstrate the bias in applied torque vs measured. In short - you're right, and I'm leveraging that fact in this video to make a point.
one of the bolts on my brakes is 1 NM lol
I have the Park wrench and i haven’t used it as much as i thought I would’ve. I believe Park says you’re supposed to send it back to Park once a year to have it recalibrated. I have yet to do that and I’ve had it for a few years, this makes me think i should probably do that?
Good point. Perhaps I should too. It’s been almost a year I think. Lots of use
Is it possible to adjust/calibrate the park wrench ??
It’s possible, but definitely check out the update video in the description. The park tool is just fine
Has low star rating
I would say that park tool isn't the same as 'before' in terms of quality.. but in this case it could be because of life span? My brother who is a car mechanic told me that torque wrenches need to be calibrated from time to time (depends from how much you are using it). Inside there is a spring which can stretch over time. Because of that it is good for a torque wrench to always leave it (after work or over night) at the lowest possible Nm position.
Right, I always set to min torque, but sometimes afraid to exceed the lower limit. Perhaps a calibration before and after video would be interesting..
It is critical to back off the setting when done. The spring will sack sitting with extra force for extended time. Its often referred to as zeroing the wrench but like you say many wrenches don't go to zero. You want to go to the lowest indication and stop. There is typically a light mechanical stop but if you push the issue you may actually disassemble the thing. Also you want to always turn the knob in a increasing direction to desired setting, stopping at desired amount, never a decreasing direction. If you do one setting and then need a lower setting, be sure to turn the knob to lowest setting or at least much lower than desired and then bring it back up.
Is it me or the budget tool seems more premium looking?
Because its all metal
Summary - Park Tool is overrated.
Username checks out 😀
This guy is at least part Asian so you know you can trust him 100% on technical stuff.
Unless you're part Asian how can we can't trust your opinion?..
Nice Wrenches!!! Oh yeah HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!
Lol thx
Great review. Very informative.
Do you store your torque wrench set to 0? Left under tension they will drift.
I always set to lowest setting - most don’t have a zero indicator
Or it could simply be expensive or not it's just not a good tool. It's not the first review I have come across that state park tools aren't always that good.
wtf is inch pounds😂
Unit of torque
Once you understand what Torque wrenches like these are actually measuring (running torque) Vs. what you want to measure (Preload or clamping force) and how they are effected by lubricants, anti-seize, grip paste, locking compounds, rust, dirt, temperature, humidity, thread pitch, surface area, etc. You will realize that a torque wrench is next to useless for most bike applications and very small fixings in general.
These are the things that drive me crazy in 99% of assembly videos. Even with the soft, trippy mood music and gentle application of “just enough grease”….torque values are absolutely skewed after that. Metal on metal vs any kind of lubricant/anti-seize/ etc, are going to be notably off, and if we are talking bike torque values of 3lbs, a plus/minus of 1 can mean a lot.
@@jeremyprovonsil7886 LOL, I don't remember making that comment seems I was in a bit of a mood that day, very passive aggressive. I stand by it but "useless" is probably a bit strong. The torque values are probably there more as a guide to stop people breaking stuff through over tightening, and the company themselves probably set them assuming the fixings are likely to be greased or otherwise contaminated. I forget sometimes that not everyone is used to handling tools regularly or professionally and that companies think about stuff like that more often than I give them credit for. Still, if you think what the wench says is what you just applied, in reality it wont be.
Hey I’m getting a RockShox fork for my rockhopper sport 29 and I got a few Questions.
What size axle is it
How big of a offset is it
Is it a straight or tampered and will 1-1/8 inch work
Thanks!
Tighten until you hear the crack, then back off a quarter turn. Perfect torque every time.
Glad to see your edit, re: position of applying force needs to be centered in the designated grip area. Moving a weight elsewhere is not a simple matter of calculating the lever arm length, because the click comes from bending a beam internally, and that depends on a specific place of applied force on the grip area.
No it doesn’t! Only a DEFLECTING BEAM style torque wrench works the way you described. The ones in this vid have no such beam anther in the device. Did you happen to notice that the handle must be screwed in or out to adjust the torque setting? That’s because there’s a SPRING inside the handle, which applies more or less tension to the clicker, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do it’s any beams bending.