It certainly is not a stable career but the personal rewards far outweigh other careers and some creative careers.I slept on the floor of my studio for six weeks when I started. Two years later I was traveling all over the USA shooting cities and landscapes. I think the KEY THING is to make connections with clients you admmire and that they LOVE your work and request YOUR approach and skills each time they need an image. I hooked up with a couple of graphic design companies and as they grew, I grew. I worked with one designer for years as his career grew I went with him from company to company. In the lean times you just have to remember what it was like when you started, you can get through the trouble and move on when things pick up.
FWIW: Graduated photo school 1980; commercial advertising/technical specialty. Nobody told me then, that....if "photography" was a pizza pie, the smallest slice of it is the actual photography. The CREATION process. Over 42 years....I'm still trying to understand/accept that! Some things I've learned is: Talent isn't enough; it takes PERSISTENCE. And a whole bunch more of everything. GREAT insights here....
A kind suggest I would like to offer for one of your videos: "why you can't be a photographer" and list all the reasons or contributing factors that will make it exponentially difficult to become one. You kind of touched it on here, but I think it can be pushed further, especially here on youtube where other photographers like to view their career through rose-colored lenses and essentially lie to others how achievable it is. It isn't. Cheers, a jaded new york photographer
The lonely part is something not to underestimate. I am in general a social person and as a portrait photographer I have everyday at least a few clients. But still, it's so lonely editing, writing emails and offers etc. And the discipline is crazy. But I think it's worth it for me, at least still for the moment
Out of all the videos I have seen, this is the honest to goodness best one discussing the risk of "risking it all". Out of all the many hundreds stories stories, there are many untold millions of failures. Photography is not for everyone.
I've taken to not delivering final images until I've been paid. I find this works to avoid late payment and cash flow issues most of the time. Usually the client needs the images immediately so they can payout. Just as we wouldn't expect to receive any goods without payment elsewhere. We all know late payment is a choice.
This works for individuals and small business as clients. Unfortunately many larger organizations and corporations work on a net 30 basis as a minimum, which means invoices don’t get paid until 30 days after service completion. It can stretch much longer too, and there’s nothing you as the vendor can do about that.
@@corbinpearce7686 As I said even with large organisations it's a choice, if you lay out your terms in the beginning it can also work. I've been told no I have to wait 30 Days, so I've not delivered, and magically payment is made, as the images are needed. Late payment, despite receiving services is a practice that needs stamping out. Most, if not all photographers are small businesses in comparison to their clients on a commercial basis.
Great discussion! Most of these points can be applied to any creative career. I was at a “stable” job for 2 years and then they cut 80% of their staff without warning. Not so stable after all!
Thanks again for showering us with uncomfortable truths..... telling us how it is, not how we want it to be. I always wait with great expectation for your next post, and you have never let me down so far. Thanks for taking the time to share with us.
Talking about this kind of stuff is so liberating. There's gotta be a seminar in there somewhere! Sage advice for business owners in general. If you're not suited, look elsewhere. If you are, grab the bull by the horns and HANG ON! 🤠 Love the time lapse too. Cheers Scott, keep up the vids!
Really appreciate your work; your help in the matter of photography and business in general have been well more worth more than I am able to give at this time. Wish you the best of luck in your own business. With sincerest gratitude, Thank you
As starting my career in milan 18 years ago and now being established with my really good studio in east London at that time the pros and agents were saying to youngsters that you are a real professional only after 10 years in the business full time
The pay that you make as a photographer depends on a few factors, the most important ones I consider are these, your skills or skill level that you are at in your chosen type of photography, their are countless ways that you can earn a living as a photographer, too many to list. The type of photography that you specialize in will determine how much money you can make, and because being a photographer is providing a service, how in demand is the service that you are providing and how much are people willing to pay for your service. I live in the Hudson river valley of New York State and I was involved in event photography for over five years, I had no formal experience or training in photography, I got my first DSLR 15 plus years ago and being a person that loved the outdoors, I photographed many different subjects that took place outside. My main focus was landscapes and wildlife, I also photographed light houses, air shows ,balloon launches, flowers and fourth of July holiday fireworks. The first event I photographed was the Memorial day event at the correctional facility that I worked at, I photographed this event for eight consecutive years,also during this time I photographed a few weddings of coworkers and other projects for the facility that I worked at. Two years before I retired and three years after I retired I photographed events for people that could not afford a professional photographer, I worked by myself and covered weddings, baptisms , birthdays, portraits and family photos. I learned a lot from the time that I photographed events, even though I did not photograph events to supplement my income from my job as a Corrections officer, l acquired a lot of photography equipment over the years and photographing Important parts of peoples lives gave me a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment that all the years in Corrections did not. Once I retired I found myself in a position that was strange to me, I worked different jobs my entire life and and always worked for the money I received, once I retired for the first time in my life I got paid for not working and that was strange, so I continued photographing events. I found out that in the area where I live people that got married or wanted to have family photos taken did not have a lot of money to do so, so I learned that you can charge as much as you think you should make but again depending on the area you worked in people may not be able to afford your service. Photographing events is time consuming and what people don't understand is that your job as a photographer does not end when the event ends. You still have hours of😮 computer time to process your photo files, make some prints and ship them to your clients, then you repeat the process all over, spending time securing clients, having meetings, I always went to the venue to look at what I would be working with, every venue is different, bridal suits were not so sweet, many were small and full of furniture, some venues were poorly lit ,some had a lot of natural light and the grounds where the ceremonies took place varied, many places I worked required the photographer to be insured, and if you plan on doing events you should have insurance to protect yourself and your equipment. So for those that wish to make a living in photography, good luck, it is alot of work, you have to deal with alot of different different people, some of which you may wish you never met. You will miss a lot of family time and your income will vary depending upon the amount of jobs you have secured and the amount people are willing to pay for your service, you need to have dependable transportation and if you're sick you may have to find some one to cover for you.I did not make a lot of money as a Corrections officer, but I had sick time, vacation time and when I retired I had my pension and Social Security witch combined allowed me to live in the same life style as when I worked, it only took me 41 years to be able to achieve that goal, I started in Corrections at the age of 21 and retired at the age of 62.
hehe probably many photographers will one day think is it worth going on and it's even worse if you ask your friends and family they will say it's time to grow up and get a real job and in many cases they may be even right, there is a small chance that you will make it... Or you can just say yes at least I will know I tried by best and I won't regret trying even if I failed but many of you might regret trying and not doing something else, there is no right answer to this, but in photography in general you need to be decisive whatever this means...
It is not just photography, there are risks and dangers associated with running any business. Who will make it? The thing is unless you try, you will never know. Failure is a big thing with any career or business, not just photography.
But with photography the odds are slimmer yet. This is just me, but I cannot think of much that would be as frustrating as being a wedding photographer. To me, photography is nothing more than a hobby. Now if I sold a print once in a while, great, but I don't see myself ever relying on it to be an actual income. To do so would ruin a fun hobby for me.
@@Anon54387 there are many people who write books that are never picked up by publishers or are not noticed until after they die, the same exists for artists, sculptures.
Don't get me started on the income tax. We've the IRS here in the USA, and what a freaking headache. The rules are voluminous and twisted, and not only is an income tax a very expensive type of tax to administer but it is intrusive into our personal lives. The health insurance is a nightmare ever since the Ford administration when it became tied to a job/employer (the how and why is a bit of a long story, but suffice it to say it is a government intrusion that caused it) and the problems caused by that government intrusion never leads anyone to say get government out of stuff but rather even more government involvement in health insurance which just means more and more bureaucracy year over year and less and less value for the premium paid. If I were king for a day....
What does it mean: "I was doing the wrong niche"? It looks like portrait photography is what you enjoyed most and you picked another photography genre just for money.
i thought i was the only one that had the weird personality juxtaposition of "competitive but liking to be alone" haha. its weird but it must be a photographer thing
Come and join our Patreon where we share things we can't share here www.patreon.com/tinhouse
It certainly is not a stable career but the personal rewards far outweigh other careers and some creative careers.I slept on the floor of my studio for six weeks when I started. Two years later I was traveling all over the USA shooting cities and landscapes. I think the KEY THING is to make connections with clients you admmire and that they LOVE your work and request YOUR approach and skills each time they need an image. I hooked up with a couple of graphic design companies and as they grew, I grew. I worked with one designer for years as his career grew I went with him from company to company. In the lean times you just have to remember what it was like when you started, you can get through the trouble and move on when things pick up.
FWIW: Graduated photo school 1980; commercial advertising/technical specialty. Nobody told me then, that....if "photography" was a pizza pie, the smallest slice of it is the actual photography. The CREATION process. Over 42 years....I'm still trying to understand/accept that! Some things I've learned is: Talent isn't enough; it takes PERSISTENCE. And a whole bunch more of everything. GREAT insights here....
A kind suggest I would like to offer for one of your videos: "why you can't be a photographer" and list all the reasons or contributing factors that will make it exponentially difficult to become one. You kind of touched it on here, but I think it can be pushed further, especially here on youtube where other photographers like to view their career through rose-colored lenses and essentially lie to others how achievable it is. It isn't.
Cheers,
a jaded new york photographer
what about your take on those?
The lonely part is something not to underestimate. I am in general a social person and as a portrait photographer I have everyday at least a few clients. But still, it's so lonely editing, writing emails and offers etc. And the discipline is crazy. But I think it's worth it for me, at least still for the moment
Out of all the videos I have seen, this is the honest to goodness best one discussing the risk of "risking it all". Out of all the many hundreds stories stories, there are many untold millions of failures. Photography is not for everyone.
The Winter is coming and you dont have any food stock.... thank you scot for your financial education lessons in your channel
I've taken to not delivering final images until I've been paid. I find this works to avoid late payment and cash flow issues most of the time. Usually the client needs the images immediately so they can payout. Just as we wouldn't expect to receive any goods without payment elsewhere. We all know late payment is a choice.
This works for individuals and small business as clients. Unfortunately many larger organizations and corporations work on a net 30 basis as a minimum, which means invoices don’t get paid until 30 days after service completion. It can stretch much longer too, and there’s nothing you as the vendor can do about that.
@@corbinpearce7686 As I said even with large organisations it's a choice, if you lay out your terms in the beginning it can also work. I've been told no I have to wait 30 Days, so I've not delivered, and magically payment is made, as the images are needed. Late payment, despite receiving services is a practice that needs stamping out. Most, if not all photographers are small businesses in comparison to their clients on a commercial basis.
Great discussion! Most of these points can be applied to any creative career. I was at a “stable” job for 2 years and then they cut 80% of their staff without warning. Not so stable after all!
Lovely time-lapse of work in the studio at the end. Good advice too.
Thanks again for showering us with uncomfortable truths..... telling us how it is, not how we want it to be.
I always wait with great expectation for your next post, and you have never let me down so far.
Thanks for taking the time to share with us.
Talking about this kind of stuff is so liberating. There's gotta be a seminar in there somewhere! Sage advice for business owners in general. If you're not suited, look elsewhere. If you are, grab the bull by the horns and HANG ON! 🤠
Love the time lapse too. Cheers Scott, keep up the vids!
Really appreciate your work; your help in the matter of photography and business in general have been well more worth more than I am able to give at this time. Wish you the best of luck in your own business. With sincerest gratitude,
Thank you
Thanks Nathan thats very kind of you
As starting my career in milan 18 years ago and now being established with my really good studio in east London at that time the pros and agents were saying to youngsters that you are a real professional only after 10 years in the business full time
I always appreciate your insights, into the world of professional photography.
The pay that you make as a photographer depends on a few factors, the most important ones I consider are these, your skills or skill level that you are at in your chosen type of photography, their are countless ways that you can earn a living as a photographer, too many to list. The type of photography that you specialize in will determine how much money you can make, and because being a photographer is providing a service, how in demand is the service that you are providing and how much are people willing to pay for your service. I live in the Hudson river valley of New York State and I was involved in event photography for over five years, I had no formal experience or training in photography, I got my first DSLR 15 plus years ago and being a person that loved the outdoors, I photographed many different subjects that took place outside. My main focus was landscapes and wildlife, I also photographed light houses, air shows ,balloon launches, flowers and fourth of July holiday fireworks. The first event I photographed was the Memorial day event at the correctional facility that I worked at, I photographed this event for eight consecutive years,also during this time I photographed a few weddings of coworkers and other projects for the facility that I worked at. Two years before I retired and three years after I retired I photographed events for people that could not afford a professional photographer, I worked by myself and covered weddings, baptisms , birthdays, portraits and family photos. I learned a lot from the time that I photographed events, even though I did not photograph events to supplement my income from my job as a Corrections officer, l acquired a lot of photography equipment over the years and photographing Important parts of peoples lives gave me a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment that all the years in Corrections did not. Once I retired I found myself in a position that was strange to me, I worked different jobs my entire life and and always worked for the money I received, once I retired for the first time in my life I got paid for not working and that was strange, so I continued photographing events. I found out that in the area where I live people that got married or wanted to have family photos taken did not have a lot of money to do so, so I learned that you can charge as much as you think you should make but again depending on the area you worked in people may not be able to afford your service. Photographing events is time consuming and what people don't understand is that your job as a photographer does not end when the event ends. You still have hours of😮 computer time to process your photo files, make some prints and ship them to your clients, then you repeat the process all over, spending time securing clients, having meetings, I always went to the venue to look at what I would be working with, every venue is different, bridal suits were not so sweet, many were small and full of furniture, some venues were poorly lit ,some had a lot of natural light and the grounds where the ceremonies took place varied, many places I worked required the photographer to be insured, and if you plan on doing events you should have insurance to protect yourself and your equipment. So for those that wish to make a living in photography, good luck, it is alot of work, you have to deal with alot of different different people, some of which you may wish you never met. You will miss a lot of family time and your income will vary depending upon the amount of jobs you have secured and the amount people are willing to pay for your service, you need to have dependable transportation and if you're sick you may have to find some one to cover for you.I did not make a lot of money as a Corrections officer, but I had sick time, vacation time and when I retired I had my pension and Social Security witch combined allowed me to live in the same life style as when I worked, it only took me 41 years to be able to achieve that goal, I started in Corrections at the age of 21 and retired at the age of 62.
Truth! Great insight!
hehe probably many photographers will one day think is it worth going on and it's even worse if you ask your friends and family they will say it's time to grow up and get a real job and in many cases they may be even right, there is a small chance that you will make it... Or you can just say yes at least I will know I tried by best and I won't regret trying even if I failed but many of you might regret trying and not doing something else, there is no right answer to this, but in photography in general you need to be decisive whatever this means...
I'd a great start to the year and now it's gone quite quiet a few times this year and it's squeaky bum time for me if I'm totally honest.
Nice
It is not just photography, there are risks and dangers associated with running any business. Who will make it? The thing is unless you try, you will never know. Failure is a big thing with any career or business, not just photography.
But with photography the odds are slimmer yet. This is just me, but I cannot think of much that would be as frustrating as being a wedding photographer. To me, photography is nothing more than a hobby. Now if I sold a print once in a while, great, but I don't see myself ever relying on it to be an actual income. To do so would ruin a fun hobby for me.
@@Anon54387 there are many people who write books that are never picked up by publishers or are not noticed until after they die, the same exists for artists, sculptures.
In Los Angeles companies are looking for photographers at $20 an hour with a minimum of four years experience, just think who they’re hiring?LOL
What is your point?
You could be describing just about every self employed person registered with HMRC
Don't get me started on the income tax. We've the IRS here in the USA, and what a freaking headache. The rules are voluminous and twisted, and not only is an income tax a very expensive type of tax to administer but it is intrusive into our personal lives. The health insurance is a nightmare ever since the Ford administration when it became tied to a job/employer (the how and why is a bit of a long story, but suffice it to say it is a government intrusion that caused it) and the problems caused by that government intrusion never leads anyone to say get government out of stuff but rather even more government involvement in health insurance which just means more and more bureaucracy year over year and less and less value for the premium paid.
If I were king for a day....
What does it mean: "I was doing the wrong niche"? It looks like portrait photography is what you enjoyed most and you picked another photography genre just for money.
Great question, probably something worth making a video about as its pretty complex and probably not something only I have suffered from.
i thought i was the only one that had the weird personality juxtaposition of "competitive but liking to be alone" haha. its weird but it must be a photographer thing
I'd probably say I'm more insanely driven than competitive per se , but I definitely like being alone ;)
One thing I have noticed, with a camera I will talk to strangers and have had some great conversations.