Boat Tail v. Flat Base Bullets ~ Why flat base are (usually) better!
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Learn why boat tail bullets are actually the least favorable choice for hunters and standard range target shooters, and why flat base bullets are generally more accurate, have better performance on game, and why they are here to stay. Boat tails and high ballistic coefficients have their place in the shooting world, but are not the best for everyone! Know what a G1 and a G7 bullet is. A short history on the development of the science of drag factors.
This is what UA-cam could be. Intelligent, practical, experienced. Thank you once again for taking the time and effort to transmit your knowledge.
lpalerme
Thank you.
So true but look at the views over 2 years later and only 43k views.
People get more than that with the dumbest shit.. I don’t understand how the general population has gotten so simple minded.
@@11ride4life Simple answer to the simple-minded question: The general population has attended public schools with Leftist and other so-called "teachers" who, themselves, have no clue and who spend all of their time regurgitating Leftist propaganda. Either that or they have had no schooling at all.
@@johnschmidt6089 You are right, I hated school and finished 2 years early as I taught myself much more than I ever got from a public school teacher.
UA-cam has greatly backslid.
We are privileged to have such a teacher of high caliber.
*Ballistic Co-Efficient
Nice pun! 😄
(Some people's "caliber" seems to be *.51-50)*
No one but no one puts out videos as great as his when it comes to anything firearms.
Thank you for finally explaining this stuff in a way that I can understand. You may not be a mathematician, but you are a great teacher. Thank you sir.
Red Sky
My privilege.
@@GunBlue490 -- Blue, could you direct us to a chart of what you call the sweet spot bullet weights for common rifle calibers?
You sir are what we need on UA-cam, sheer knowledge no gimmicks and more knowledgeable then 99% of people working at gun stores ect. I’m come hear for knowledge abs you sir are helping hundreds of people thank you
Most knowledgeable man on the subject of firearms in the country.
I used to plug in music to fall asleep...now I listen to this gentleman talk about sectional density, ballistic coefficients, kinetic energy and rifle twist. I wake up and have to turn it off. No wonder my dreams are getting bizarre. Incredible info, thankyou.
I think it's his accent, tone, and cadence of speech.
So effective.
Yes indeed. And the endless stream of info that appears to have no limit.@@saleembarmania5295
He's in his "lab"today for lecture. Other days it's like shooting the $hit with a buddy, except we don't talk back. Man has his format down perfect. A true professional for our education.
Its like getting to step back in time and hear the gun shop ramblings of my highway patrolmen grandfather in his prime.
Again sir one of the best explanations available... you remind me of listening to my late father. Keep up the great work, so many shooters today need your wisdom. God bless.👍
You sir are a wealth of knowledge. I’m someone who has a very firm grasp of the subject and this is the best description I have heard yet. I really enjoy how you simplify things so anyone can understand. Thank you for sharing you knowledge and God bless.
Since I found this channel I have more or less stopped looking at other shooting related "facts" channels..
Same Here!
it really shows you the level of BS that's out there doesn't it? I'd much rather watch and learn from this man than watch some combative" this vs that" caliber or rifle video
I know he makes them look like TMZ
@arkoutarkout3654
They are like TMZ. Tons of clickbait BS spewed over and over again.
The real master rifleman. I hope that your videos are saved in the archives of shooter information.
As simple as it is, him dropping the bullet with his fingers at the end of the video really taught me an important lesson. Thanks for these videos.
Another splendid video. I have been wasting money buying boat tail bullets for short range hunting for a long time. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the ballistics and the advantages of a flat bottom bullet for hunting. God bless you too.
Thank You so much...now I can settle down and build accurate loads and quit worrying about whether or not I've got the "best" set up available. Thanks again! Just have to say you are the most respected man on the internet......I'm so glad I found you.
I really enjoy this channel; excellent, very well explained info. In addition, a clear and smooth usage of the English language; just like seating in a classroom listening to an older, experienced professor . Keep up the good work, Sir!!
I came back to this one and watched again to try to ingrain the information you've given. This video really was a big help on a subject I've tried to understand for a long time. Thanks.
I watched this video in response to an advertisement from Palmetto State listing a .223 ammunition featuring the boat tail. I think this video is going to be timeless, the information is so well presented. “Nothing is new under the sun”, explains why the Toyota Prius has the same shape after the 1st generation, it’s consistent to half of a boat tail above the tires. Thanks.
Thank you I learn so much watching your vids
Your truly a treasure to us all
Excellent presentation, almost 30 years of playing with various calibers and ballistic calculators summed up in less than an hour.
You are amazing! I discovered your videos a fee months back. I have gotten back into shooting after 25 years away from it. And have spent literally days watching and re watching. Very much respect!
Buy far my most favorite person on UA-cam
Thank you for taking time to share your knowledge
Only you, sir, could make this this interesting and informative. Master teacher.
This topic was always so difficult for me to understand, so I took the easy way out and avoided the issue. Glad to get this presentation and have some basic understanding.
perfect lecture...I could sit in your workshop all day!
Very good gun blue. This is something my husband has suspected for a long time. His favourite bullet of all time is the 180 gr. Hornady spire point interlock. Nothing groups better or is more effective on game.
He has tried all the boattails etc etc. and nothing groups as tight or is more reasonable in price as that flat base bullet. Also that Remington Corelokt is another good one also flat base.
You amaze me, with your explanation of ballistics. I happen to be a "critical thinker", so I 100% understand everything that you say, and it makes perfect sense to me. Keep up the great work, sir. We appreciate your efforts.
I appreciate your support.
I do not listen to music at work ...I listen to this man’s knowledge.
I'm going to adopt Gunblue as my father.
Decon
He's my adopted grandad but GunBlue doesn't know it😂😂😂
I think we all claim him as a favourite uncle!
He has many adopted grandkids.
I learned this the hard way. I have a Remington Model 700 and Winchester Model 70, both in .243. In lengthy comparison shooting both boat tail (Hornady American Whitetail & Federal Fusion) vs. flat based (Nosler Part & other FB bullets), both rifles were much less accurate with BT than FB, at both 50 and 100 yard ranges. It really wasn't close.
I have wasted a lot of money on BT ammo when I would have been better off with FB in typical hunting situations. Thankfully, in looking back over the last 40 years of successful deer hunting, most of my bullets have been FB. I got sucked into advertising and long range shooters touting boat tails and bought a lot of it (and gave most of it away). If you're hunting deer in the 200 yard range or less, stick to no frills flat based bullets.
You have stated this subject well. You cleared up some areas for me and I thank you for that. Hope you, your wife and Bennie are doing well. God Bless.
Thank you for taking the time to explain so in depth.
Wisdom on display. Thank You.
I never though I would spend so much time learning about hunting because of a video game. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Another great job. I really enjoyed this video as well as your others. When my grandsons are older I plan to have them watch your videos.
you are a treasured resource! u should be bigger than jack o Conner, Elmer Keith, and jimCarmichael
Babay Bluegill
I'm just sharing the gift God gave me, all thanks be to Our Lord Jesus, from Whom all gifts flow.
Amen! I KNEW you knew the Lord - it ooses out of you - for His Glory!!
@@GunBlue490 You are a good man Sir.
This is a topic of great interest to me currently. I have planned my rifle build to be up to 200 yd Target and I would like to work up a load to maximize accuracy at that distance. I was getting ready to purchase 150 grain Sierra's matchking and 142gr Hornady ELD Match bullets which feature boat tails. I think I will drop the ELD for a comparable weight flat tail. Thank you for this instructional. I always learn a lot no matter what video I choose of yours.
The Sierra 130 pro hunter flat base is exactly what i load in my 270. It works very well on whitetail.
holy crap - you just gave me 3 years of knowledge in 55 min :-O
And I thought your written response to my questions was great!!! Many thanks!
Just amazing to listen to! Always learn something!!!!
This is only the second comment that I have ever made online. The first comment was on another one of your videos. Thank you for your interesting and to the point videos. I agree with many of the other viewers comments including the humour and history.(Benjamin Baskin Robbins)
Continue learning watching you share your knowledge
Another absolutely fantastic video. Pearland of wisdom! I have for quite a while thought this modern craze of hunters chasing the highest coefficient has been a crock of misinformed bs! It is refreshing to have this verified by someone so knowledgeable!
Another excellent presentation! Your video's are very much appreciated and informative.
Great video, I learned a lot. Thank you for your time.
I’m new to shooting and wish I would have found your channel way sooner than I did. Better late than never.
Love it love it love it! Even though I've known what you said in this video, for thirty years, I watched every second of it. I agreed with every aspect of it and would be hard pressed to say that about any other video I've watched on youtube. Well maybe a few others, but you did it well and easy to understand for someone who didn't know. When I started reloading, back in the seventies, I was perplexed and confused by the mountain of information that was available and it's even worse today. I'm sure you have helped a lot of people that weren't sure or didn't know at all what bullet coefficients was all about. Less time for conditions to act on the bullet, sums it really well and I've never heard anyone relate to it that way. Numbers are just that and every gun is different. You have to stuff some and go out and shoot them to know if your getting the performance that is right for what you're doing
Great video from a competent man who knows what he's talking about. Thanks!
This means alot to me! As I listen to your numbers go by, I realize that, after fantasizing for years about shooting at long range, I became programmed, by the numbers, to believe I could shoot more accurately with a boat tail!
After many of those years, I finally realized my fantasy at one kilometer. It turned out that I don't cotton to all of the analysis and control necessary to get good results at great distances. I'm glad I did it and encourage anyone to take that adventure! I, however, could not actually take those steps and do all of the work, without the help of an expert who wanted my help with learning how to reload.
We both had a successful journey! I hit a twelve-inch steel plate at 1,000 meters and he he learned to develop a load that allowed him to hit the same spot, three times, at 500 yards.
I'm not a hunter and I typically shoot paper at 100 yards. I believe that the extra cost of ELD bullets with boat tails, in that case, is not warranted.
BT bullets can be very accurate and consistent and flat base bullets can be comparatively more inaccurate given the same caliber. That depends on many things ( interaction of particular riffle with particular bullet, actual subsonic or supersonic range mix etc). It can't be generalized like this video suggests. But one thing is sure: BT ammo is more expensive and in many cases doesn't make noticable difference
You sir are a champion of the firearm community. I wish you were my grandfather. There's nothing i would like more than to spend a weekend with you picking your brain about firearms topics. Once again you are a champion god bless and be well.
You are fantastic at turning a complex intricate subject into an easily understood subject. I simply love listening to you talk about firearms. I would love to hear your opinions on the "sweet spot" bullet weights for the popular cartridges for hunting and target shooting. I am new to reloading (about 18months) and as you mentioned, I have fallen into the trap of assuming that high BC is the way to go. Knowing your thoughts on where the sweet spot is will give me a good starting point to work on different loads.
Thanks Gunblue I'm 35 I used to get caught up in numbers. To me now they are just for reference. My brothers get caught in the numbers and prove my point in the field or at the range regularly. I share the save views as you. Thanks for the info I'm learning more and keep it going.
So loved the history lesson! Thankyou very interesting. It is an honour to listen to you, Sir. Roger
This certainly changes my way of thinking when buying ammunition now . Great video as always ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and understanding.
Great material , you are my first go too when I question myself . Thank you .
Thank you for this video! I really enjoy the information you present and how you present it. Blessings in Christ!
Just let me say, "Thank you."
Mr. Gunblue490 ...Please do a video on your thoughts on all copper or guilded metal bullets vs standard copper and lead bullets.. on game animals
I'm VERY interested! Copper fouling. SD of copper. Terminal ballistics of the GMX bullet, specifically?
His brain is a veritable encyclopedia!
Baskins and Robins, Vids just keep getting better - now we have humour!!
Wow! Fantastic content. Very educational. Was not bored at all! Thanks for another great video
Minor correction, a ballistic pendulum allows one to calculate the energy of the pendulum after the collision, which then allows for the calculation of the bullet's momentum prior to the collision. Knowing the bullet's mass, one can calculate its velocity and subsequently kinetic energy. Much of the bullet's energy will be lost as heat as it embeds in the pendulum, so the height the pendulum swings is in itself not a measure of projectile energy.
Projectiles didn't imbed in them because they were made of iron. The height to which the pendulum of known weight swung in reaction to known projectile weights was precisely how velocities were computed. History didn't vanish when they died. Researchers of the day recorded their findings with exact measurements of bullet weights and black powder charges that have been found quite accurate, because those folks first wrote the physics of energy that you quote.
@@GunBlue490 Respectfully, this is incorrect. As explained by the inventor of the ballistic pendulum, Benjamin Robins, in his 1805 book, New Principles of Gunnery, his steel pendulums were faced with wood specifically so the projectile would be embedded. This is essential for relating the pendulum's height to bullet velocity (via the process I outlined previously), since any reflection of the projectile will result in uncertainty as to the system's total momentum.
Just ran across your channel. Thanks for putting in all the work to make these videos
Another great video! Learned so much as always.
Smart Alec comment first: What I’ve learned is that if you speed in your car, you should really speed to expose yourself to the police for the minimum amount of time.
Amazingly well explained. As a pilot, I am familiar with many of those principles. It is hard to explain to a beginner. Mr GunBlue490 did an awesome job to do just that. Thank you.
Excellent video, not boring at all, very interesting to hear it all put into perspective rather that reading about it from manual to manual and being lead off on the chase for a higher B.C. bullet. The manuals are put out by bullet manufactures after all. Thankful about your explanation on the hunting bullet and flat base relationship, I was thinking I needed a better bullet than the Interlock but now I know why it’s being sold and not discontinued after this many years.
Thank you and all the best,
I really enjoy your work on here. Slow and methodical, yet I don't get bored watching (despite the internet impatience effect). That's real skill. Thanks.
I would be very interested in hearing about some of the bullets and loads you have worked up for your 22-250 Reminton. I think you stated that it was a 1 in 12 twist. I have come into one myself and was courius . I owned one in traditional twist of 1-14. Was a very accurate rifle. The one that I now have is a Savage. Was in particular thinking about nosler 60 gr partions a they also produce a 60 gr varmint bullet that is boattailed. And if you have had any problems with them stabilizing. Thank You.
I can't believe you havn't more subscribers. Okay, i get it... maybe you don't inspire what the young kids are seeking for - intelligence wasted, again - but seriously... it doesn't take a genious to realize you are not only very knowledgeable but also and, maybe above all, are a great human being with observational qualities we all wish our kids could posess when we first imagine a familly future (if i make sense here...). Thank you for being critical and keeping pushing the enveloppe further in separating what really matters in the end (whatever it might be for type).
Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge.
Fantastic Information!! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Enjoyed the video. It’s the second time I’ve watched it. Don’t forget that a lot of reloaders prefer boat tails, because they are easier to start into a case.
That's very true with 22 bores, but there's very little difference with larger ones, because the edge radius is not as sharp. My greater point is understanding their ballistic value, which is very commonly misinterpreted. Many dealers no longer can even sell flat base bullets because of this unfortunate perception that boattail bullets are unqualifiably better.
Great practical knowledge. The best kind. Thanks 👍
Thanks for your video. I have always loaded boat tail bullets in my rifles, primarily for ease of loading. During this ammo component shortage, I was able to buy some Remington Lokt PSP 175 grain flat bottom bullets for my 7mm Remington mag rifle. The bottom of the bullets will not feed into the top of the cartridge case without crushing the case mouth. Would you recommend a case mouth expander or something else to help, or use some sort of reamer? I haven’t been able to find any help online for this problem. I would appreciate any help that you may be able to suggest. Thank you.
A wonderful lesson! Thank you
Thank You Mate, for again sharing your extensive knowledge and experience. Your videos are informative, down to earth and make a lot of sense.
I wish I'd seen the one about a case stuck in the Die and how easily it can be removed, before my LGS told me, I had to buy another die set.
I've been frustrated by stability issues with the OLD School, slow 1-12 twist barrel in my Savage 24, under over 223/12G. It's surprisingly a 200m 0.5-1MOA 3 Shot grouper upto 50-55gn. But 60gn Partitions are as high as I can go, before the higher BC projectiles spread out, or even Tumble, 69gn keyholing at 25m. So you're spot on about the sweet spot for a calibre and especially twist rate.
I like watching your videos. Im just wondering if you can do a video on the 7-30 waters.
Thanks Gunblue490! Great video.
Very interesting how cartridges which seem so well suited to short flat bottom bullets with a short ogive and low b c. perform with degrees of precision under .5 m.o.a. at and beyond 450 yards (i.e.22-250)
Are boat tail bullets more critical in the right seating? I only shoot 30/30 in a lever gun so no other rifle calibers to really worry about.
Yes, another great video.
My 1st time leaving a comment. I watched video several times but do not understand the different consequence of a loger vs shorter boat tail base. Can you help? Thank you for great video.
Very happy that I found your channel. Trying to come up with an accurate load for my rifle as factory ammo for the .308 Norma mag is very expensive. Gonna try me some flat based bullets.
Try some Noslers for decent Boat tails. Hornady makes excellent bullets. Speer makes cheap ones.
The SP is flat base. My Ballistic Tip is boat tail.
@@joemoment-o1275 Ok. Thanks for the tip.
It's funny because my rifle does shoot flat based bullets most accurate in spite of all the hype with boat tails. I hunt with medium quality amo, and it works out just fine. I like to save money! Thank you for confirming what I was suspecting.
Actually I learned a lot...I learned that for the most part, for what I'm trying to achieve with my shooting, I've been basically wasting my money buying fancy BS bullets for the last 2 years.
Thank you for the video and sharing your wisdom.
I would love to be able to buy his videos. Or a book about all his knowledge.....And also whats his name?
Greetings my favorite Patriot! Another name I prefer to use for 'drag factor' is turbulence.
You sir are a valuable resource. Thank you.
I have to add something about the pronghorn antelope portion. He is right. It's true that many people will never see them. It's also true that those antelope have eyesight that boggles the mind and they run when they see anything that spooks them (often from long distances). It's often said they are born at 55 mph, so if you think you will get a shot at them once they've seen you, good luck with that. So how does this matter? It matters because there are idiots out there that don't hunt. Instead they get wherever is convenient to them and start lobbing bullets at the antelope until they get lucky and hit one sometime. Instead of being a hunter where you analyze the wind direction, the direction the herd is moving, the terrain and your position relative to theirs and plotting a path to position yourself for a good close ethical shot, they instead just go out and shoot at animals. It's disgusting. I love the new technologies and how we are getting better at teaching long range shooting, but all of this is contributing to a bunch of people that all think they are the Carlos Hathcock of the hunting world and can just go out with their expensive rifle and no experience and just shoot something. We are finding a lot of animals with legs shot off etc. Can I hit an animal at long range? I'm sure I can. Do I try? Nope. I owe that animal a clean kill so I'll work a little harder to make that happen.
Thank you for your comment. I personally think that long range hunting is unethical for the vast majority of hunters.
Thank you, another very informative vid.
what are your thoughts on solid copper bullets? seems like most of the offerings are all boat tail and are longer also .. maybe to squeeze some more grain weight into them to equal the same grain weight of lead in given caliber? in CA we are required to use copper now so I'm curious what your thoughts are on these? obviously there wouldn't be any bonding issues when the bullet is solid copper. the Nosler E-Tip seems to have really nice expansion as well as some of the offerings from Hornady and Barnes. thoughts?
Sectional density is the relationship of bullet weight to diameter, regardless of material or shape. Copper is less dense than lead, which requires greater length for equal weight. Whatever the material, shape, or length, bullets of equal weight and diameter have the same sectional density. So, if a bullet with a lead core of .240 SD will take a given game animal, so will one made of copper. Makes no difference. The only real issue is the length, which affects stability with standard twist rates if the bullet is longer than the twist can stabilize. Bullet makers know those factors, and state the required twist rates.
This was a great video. There was critical data and that is more useful than outlandish opinions.
Thankyou for such and in depth explanation on ballistics. Now I understand that the "sweet spot" for .223 for foxing is a 50-55 grain. I will select a few brands and see which one is the sweetest :). Any recommendations on brand for a Tikka T3x? Cheers , Roger
Roger & Rebecca Harris
Thanks. I have never ever been dissatisfied with the performance of Sierra bullets on varmints, and they are the accuracy standard. My own Tikka T3 in .222 Remington performs superbly with the 50 grain Sierra Blitzking, which gives accuracy on par with their Matchking bullet, and also with the required expansion of their best varmints bullets. Though perhaps a wee bit less accurate on a purely technical level, I would never hesitate to use their flat base spitzer Varminter bullets #1330, which have been my go-to bullet for over fifty years. However, for .222 and .223 velocities, they make their Blitz version with a lighter jacket that gives 22-250 style explosive performance, which may suit you too. Try both the 50 and 55 grain and see what works in your rifle with whatever powder you are using. The .223 works well with many powders, but you may want to try Hodgdon CFE 223, which has worked beautifully in my Mini 14 and AR 15 in those bullet weights, and with my buddy's. 204 Ruger, which is based on the discontinued .222 Remington Magnum, the forerunner of the .223. It was developed for military use to prevent copper buildup in full auto weapons, but beware, it does leave lots of black residue behind. It doesn't hurt a thing, but just to be aware.
Thankyou Sir, You have saved me considerable time and money narrowing down the choices, God bless you!
Thankyou, Sir. Do you think I need a 24" barrel 1/12 twist for 55gr or will a 20" 1/8" barrel on the Tikka 223 be fine for my fox hunting purposes? I do like the shorter barrel, just handy, love the feel of it. However I dont want to compromise on performance. Your opinion is highly regarded, regards Roger
When seating rifle bullets is it good practice to have the bullet just touching the lands? I was told that is better for accuracy. Is that true? Thanks Al
Check out my accuracy loading videos, where I explained this issue. Bench rest accuracy is certainly achieved by having firm contact, because it maintains perfect concentricity in concert with a case that has been outside neck turned. However, it comes with strong caveats. It generally improves groups by less than one quarter or less MOA (1/4 INCH for every hundred yards). That performance brings higher pressures, hard bolt seating, difficulty in extraction, and the possibility of bullet extraction if not fired. Such issues are of no concern to the benchrest shooter or perhaps the varmint hunter, but can be a real problem for anyone else. Practical loads for field rifles should never be seated closer than 15 thousandths from the rifling. No deer will ever understand that the bullet you struck him with is a one MOA load instead of a 3/4 MOA load. Watch that series for more information.
I could be wrong, but seems like in the bullet market, they are making tougher bullets in the boat tails for big game, and kind of leave out the flat base in that regard. Ive heard of some bullets disintegrating on impact, which is why I think they make bonded bullets. I dont think I see much flat bases if any in a bonded. This video kind of answered some of my questions.
Wish you were my grandfather, keep the excelent job, your videos are amazing !!!
Another great explanation thank you so much!!!!
I like how all your vidios end 😊
Great video, as always! But isn't the boat tail more stable during the transition between super- and sub-sonic flight in long ranges? This is rather only important for long distance target shooting and military snipers, I guess!
TheDerwisch77
Oc course, and I clearly stated that they have extreme range benefits beyond 500 yards, which is why I buy them, but my commentary is addressed to the huge majority of shooters who buy boat tails for standard hunting ranges and even for the majority of sub-400 yard target shooters. Very, very, very, (very) few folks who buy BTs shoot to the transition distance, or would even be able to find a place where such shooting distances exist. For those who deal with such conditions, they are the ticket, and I highly recommend them. I'm not sure that even most military rifles that engage in realistic combat conditions really benefit from them, but Uncle Sam isn't necessarily logical, either, or we wouldn't have Democrats.
LOL! Nice.
God Bless You and your last remark.