How it sounds? BT20A Pro with Various Op-Amps Demonstration
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- Опубліковано 9 кві 2023
- Grab your headphones and feel how the BT20A Pro sounds with different op-amps socketed.
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The tube amp just sounds so much more full bodied but when it switches back to the Fosi it still sounds nice and detailed.
1º OP249
2º OPA2604
It is surprising how well the familiar NE5532 stands the test of time.
The worst, RM4559
The NE5532 is one of the worst op-amps in use. It sounds terrible and try to test with a square wave on a scope - it rings like hell.
Too bad the NE5532 is the stock chip on the V3… the jump in clarity and separation in the OPA2604 and OP249 is very noticeable.
OP249 Sounds even better than the expensive tube amp :)
It has a little bit softer sound in the mid and high range :)
How can you possibly tell over the internet. BS
this was very cool, even going through YT online, I can hear the difference.
😁
Great video, I simply love it! I like to customize / upgrade my great. You can combine this Amp with a Fosi P1 to add a Tube Preamp, but the P1 works better with a Fixed gain Amplifier-only component. Fosi need to make one of those (Small Amp-only without volume or tone controls) to complement the Fosi P1.
Thank you for your advice. We'll certainly think about it.
@@fosiaudio in a next version of the v3 you could have the option to work as a power amp only like the ropping la90. and if you can put an option to work in mono (also like the la90)...baam! Now we have a monoblock. And then you make a preamp with a remote and sell all the units by the buckets. 😀
I hear clear noticeable differences between the opamps and between the amplifiers. Listened on Mission LX2+ bookshelf speakers and Marantz PM 6007 amp. Same listening result i had even when feedet the amp with Bluetooth aptxHD through Aiyima T10 dac (Saber). Not sure how realistic is that, probably highly dependent on the hardware im using to listen. The tube amp was more spatial with wider frequency response and dynamic. Surely the sound differences were not as huge as the price difference of the amps. On my setup the NE5532 sounds familiar, exactly how i know it. The most pleasant for me and the closest to the tube amp sound in the video is the OPA2624 and the most vocal, midrange focused is the OP249.
"senior hifi enthusiast"
LOL
So cool being able to do this! Fosi Audio should sell a lot of these BT20A Pro devices. I know crazy to do this with a low-cost device, but what about more expensive op-amps from Sparkos? Would they fit? I'm digging those AD827 just fine though. Wow.
Yes, Sparkos 8-pin op-amps are compatible.
@@fosiaudio wow...this will be fun to try!
@@fosiaudio Just be sure to order the dual one SS3602. For lower cost op-amps I like the LM4562 a lot. I have just ordered a Fosi BT20A Pro, sitting and waiting 🙂
@@qddk9545 Can I install 2 pieces of Sparkos SS3602 on my Fosi BT20a Pro ? what is differences between 1 or 2 Sparkos installed on board ?
@@lukaszdziaba8687Sorry I have had different Fosi amps, and I don´t have any left. So I don´t remember the details anymore. You have to understand that there a 2 types of 8-pin op-amp devices. They look the same from outside, but one has only 1 channel so to speak and the other has 2 channels. They are named single and dual op-amps. If you mount the wrong one you will probably ruin it, so you have to be careful. If there is one socket you use 1 op-amp, if there are 2 sockets you use 2, or you will not get the benefits.
One of the amps I had, had 2 op-amps in sockets and 2 that were surface mount. That is a bad construction, and don´t call for a Sparkos type, because you still have 2 bad ones in the circuit.
If you use Sparkos you need to be aware if there is enogh space for them.
It is not difficult to roll op-amps, but you need to know what you are doing.
OP249 really had the most activity at the bottom and still a nice rich clarity in the heights as the OPA2604. The RM4559 and NE5532 felt a lot thinner at the bottom and made the mids and heights feel almost too harsh and too present. HOWEVER they aren't terribly bad and still have a pretty good sound if you need that. Just less punch at the bottom end of the frequencies. The Tube Amp sound at the end had the most round overall sound and made the OPA2604 sound a little thin in comparison (again the lower frequencies). It's hard to tell for sure because the youtube audio compression of course cuts off a lot of the lower frequencies so i'm sure it would sound much nicer for real. Especially with lossless audio sources.
No doubt tube amp sound better, but i think for the price fosi is a good buy and it doesn't sound bad any way
the tube sound better but for the price i pick BT20A
It tried but it gets very hot
For the OP AMPS : 1) OP249 - 2) OPA2604. And then the tube amplifier is so much better for all parameters, warms, details, stage, depth ...
As configurações do sistema influenciam muito na sonoridade. É importante informar na descrição do vídeo quais itens são usados no teste, como caixas, cabos, amplificador, pre amplificador, e tamanho da sala.
Replacing an op amp is more likely to add distortion as the Equipment you have is designed around the opamp inside. Most people don't have enough electronic knowledge to do this. Every mixing desk in the audio chain has gone through hundreds of NE5532. So you put in an unsuitable JFet OPamp in a little box in your living room, you hear some high frequency noise and think it sounds better because you paid more for it, Unless you can test an improvement you are probably making things worse. Plenty of High End audio use Philips / Signetics NE5532 because they are perfect for audio,
From these I like 5532 and 2604. Maybe would go with 2604. But it is most likely about what you are listening. And it is not really just sticking with one. AIYIMA Audio DAC-A3 for example has 4 op amps. 2 x The I/V-converter that OPA1612 might do well, The Differential to Single-Ended OPA2227P and Op-Amp Voltage Buffer OPA2111. I think this could complement HD600 very well. HD600 needs little bit help on low where the OPA2227P could help a bit, OPA2111 is maybe the best in low noise that could help the OPA1612 to sound even better. OPA1612 has very good clarity that can bring out bits of music that you didn't even know was there. But that said using the OPA2604 as your I/V-converter might work better with heavier music or everything else like movies. Bit of a hit and miss changing op amps. If you have a good combination please share.
OPA2604 buffer and OPA2134 as Baxandall seems to work. It is delicate and has an airiness through my Hiraga amps
Was the audio of the op amp comparison obtained via the 3.5mm jack?
It wouldn't affect the audio from the pre-out.
@@fosiaudio Aha. Thanks.
@@fosiaudioSo it’s not really a pre out then, It’s a daisy chain connection.
@@mattfranklin3622 The volume control and on/off switch can affect the pre out, so it is a pre out.
Thank you. Next to no differences. So I can save myself the time playing around with different Op-Amps. 😄
I thought the AD827 had slightly better bass and definition. But the OPA2604AP was very similar.
UA-cam may have compressed the sound so it could be hard for us to feel the difference. Anyway, besides those op-amps tested in the video, there are many other 8-pin op-amps are supported, such as the Sparkos SS3602.
@@fosiaudio yes, UA-cam is lossy sound at best. The only way to really compare is to use downloaded, uncompressed, CD quality (at least) wav or FLAC files, and then listen through neutral headphones. I imagine the differences between the op-amps would be far more noticeable. But thanks for the video anyway! Those Muse02 might be the ticket....
@@rosswarren436 thanks.
You've either got poor hearing or poor headphones to not hear the differences.
Hi, can I add the Sparkos' DUAL DISCRETE OP AMP SS3602?
Yes, S3602 is compatible.
I like Fosi amps. I have one on the desk where I'm typing this (a TPA3116 Mini V1.0G) , and I'm quite happy with it. But - "rolling" op-amps will make little to no change in the "sound" of an amplifier, because op-amp behavior is tightly controlled by massive amounts of negative feedback, and that negative feedback swamps almost all design differences between op-amps except for noise floor and bandwidth. In some designs, the input impedance may change if one goes from a fully bipolar op-amp (1458, 4558, 4559) to a BiFet op-amp (NE5532, LF353N, TL082), or vice versa.
You are SOOOO wrong. The op-amps you are listing are all noisy crap, try to put in a LM4562, and you will never go back.
Why would you use a low fidelity, mono recording to demonstrate audio gear?
Does the loudspeakers play a role in this competition.
Which loudspeaker is best for FOSI BT20A Pro with the standard OP-AMP and the standard 32V 5A Power Adapter?
There is no information about best choice of a loudspeakers in different price ranges.
Please give some hints. Best wishes from BG!
Listening with IEMs I really couldn't tell which op amp sounded better in person. Anyone here tried rolling op amps with a BT20A pro yet? Is it possible to get it just a little bit warmer but still detailed? I changed speakers and got warmer but lost some detail.
RM4559 too slow (2V/µS), NE5532 too low input resistance (30kR min), the rest has FET Transistors. NJM/RC 4580, LM4562 and TL072 were not tested.
Take these reviews with a big spoon of salt. I have this little ChiFi amp, it’s wonderful for what it is for desktop listening, casual game room setup etc. but let me be clear, it’s no match for even a entry level, but well built, well priced offerings from Cambridge or Emotiva etc. The Emotiva Mini X-A100 that I also own beats the snot out of this little bugger in terms of superb midrange weight, bass depth and tightness and well resolved treble and separation. But for $80, this BT20a Pro does hold a surprise or two on how well it still can drive medium to large speakers. Anything upto 11 O’clock position sounds good. Beyond that it loses its composure, but it’s already pretty loud 90db by then. Try this for fun and you may find a use case.
I just tested this on my speakers. It sounds very good and does a good job. I have xtz m2 master, xtz 99.26 and Kairos speakers. It managed to drive these speakers without a problem! Normally I drive these speakers with MF A 300. So spare us your nonsense.
Good day! What do you think about Fossi devices? Another thing I wanted to ask you. Is it true that Fossi devices can match the PP quality of devices that cost $1000 and up? For example to compete with devices such as McIntosh, QUAD, Pioneer?
what is this voice 2014 vibes
being honest here. i couldnt hear the difference in any of the BT20A op-amps. the difference is so small, if there is one, that it is not of any significance. and it sounds as good as the tube amp too. impressive.
To those who are more experienced with tube amps and high-end audio in general, are the differences as minimal as in this example? I heard the differences between the Fosi and tube amp mainly because of the cuts between them (little pops). Granted this is youtube and I'm playing back on Vanatoo T0 desktop speakers, moondrop SSP IEMs , and Adam T8Vs but the difference in sound isn't worth $10 more let alone the $1000+ for the tube amp. Also, I couldn't tell the difference between the op-amps. Do I have shit ears or shit equipment that I can't hear a major difference between any of the items displayed in this video? Do people really spend that much money for such a minor difference in sound?
We must admit that it is not easy to distinguish on UA-cam. This video is mainly to show that BT20A Pro does support a variety of op-amp chips, and according to the feedback of our fan, using different op-amps can indeed bring different experiences in sound. Our fan Chambers told us that he is most satisfied with using the OPA2604 op-amps. I believe that different enthusiasts will have their favorite op-amps option. Friends who have purchased BT20A Pro are welcome to share their own experience.😁
Yes people really do spend $ for imo very small differences in sound.
Then they try to convince themselves it was worth it.
Thanks for the test but to me it only shows how bad our hearing is and how unaware people are about it.
First off, the test is not controlled for volume. The OP249 is clearly the loudest and that's what we intuitively like it the most. Then the chosen music sounds different in the beginning and the end and our auditive memory is pretty bad. We notice the jump in 'Quality' at the intersections and then our brains are convinced that one sounds better and that's also what influences us.
I would love to see the test done again with only 2s snippets played directly after another and also controlled for exactly the same volume. I'm not saying there are no differences but I think they would be much more subtle. It's not that easy to increase the audio quality of an amp but it's much easier to fool a bunch of people on the internet.
Also, the tube amp has notably more bass or rather a normal bass. The fosi sounds very shitty here for the lack of bass and I'm interested to know why is has so little bass with the knob in the middle...
Bingo. With each change you go "Oooo, I think this one might be a bit better". If you run 1-4 in a loop forever, you'd still be thinking it got a bit better when it switched from 4 back to 1....forever. I HAS to be the exact same sound/passage at the beginning and end, at the exact same volume, at each switch, and it has to be a short passage of just a few seconds to "tune" into it then switch.
come on, why no bt aptX hd connection ?
It supports only SBC and AAC.
For my ears, tube amp sounds bassy and has distortion. I would prefer any semiconductor amp over tube one. IMHO, tube amps are relics of the past, because of technological growth that gave us more precise, small, and cheap electronics. Also I hear no differences between semiconductor op amps at all. Suppose it's all humans psychology.
Tube's full range is better than fosi.
Great video. Totally confirms you shouldn't buy a cheap class D amp.
Some Cheap class D amps can also give good performance exceeding your expectations. Why not give it try.😁
Need to clear your ears out matey boy.
Have a look at the measurement by ASR www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fosi-audio-bt20a-pro-amplifier-review.43751/
Being a hardware snob just because of one specification entry on a datasheet is foolish.
What an a-hole
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Is this the most crappy song ever?