What happened in the Blue Jays elimination game? OverDrive - Hour 1 - 10/5/23
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2023
- Bryan Hayes, Jeff O’Neill and Jamie McLennan discuss the Blue Jays being eliminated by the Twins, the decision to pulled Jose Berrios and who actually made the call to make a pitching change and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. being picked off at second and his focus during the game. They are joined by MLB.com Blue Jays reporter Keegan Matheson to discuss the vibe in the dressing room after the Blue Jays loss, the decision making process when they pull a pitcher that isn’t having any issues, Vladimir Guerrero Jr.’s gaffe in game 2 and what this could mean big picture for him and his contract and more.
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Managing the Toronto Blue Jays is the job of a lifetime for John Schneider and he's not jeopardizing it for something irrelevant like winning a playoff game. The Blue Jays hired a rookie manager to follow orders from the GM and analytics department; if he doesn't follow them, he's fired. The problem is not Schneider but the GM and a baseball culture that relies too much on analytics.
Lol the problem is Schneider too he is the manager. If you’re not going to accept responsibility then have the self worth to not take the job, or step down.
I think the blame should be for everyone from FO to coaches to the players. However, if Schneider do not stand up to his player, specifically Berrios in this game, don't you think he will get another MLB job. Think about his reputation and respect from people around the league. But now, he did he what he was told, and the only organization he can stick with is the Jays for life. The reality is not many peoples can work for one employer for life. The offseason will be very interesting for this team.
Job of a life time? They haven’t won since 1992.
That’s true. If he doesn’t make that switch in that moment and Berrios gets clobbered…. He gets fired full stop. So he was managing his bank account in that moment more than anything else. Presser response confirmed that it was not his call.
@@jeffberd he isn’t & wouldn’t be fired either way. Casuals think teams win 89 games by accident & would win 100 if only a HOF coach were just sitting there waiting to join this organization that hasn’t won since 1992.
The Jays season didn't end early it ended late.
Vladdy belted a double in the first game and drew a walk in the second game. The problem goes back to Bill Caudill's contract. Had Bill Caudill not been paid so much money, Teoscar Hernandez would still have been in the lineup.
When the Bluejays lose we all win.
John Schneider is just a uniform its the front office making all the calls
...yep and he needs to go for not doing his job and managing the team.
Might as well fire the coaching staff and have a computer take decisions during games if they’re not gonna consider imponderables lol whats the point of a coaching staff then? The numbers didn’t notice how great Berrios was pitching during that game, now was the time for someone to forget about that plan. That was Schneiders job. Make tough decisions for your players and fuck management.
I remember in the movie Moneyball, the A's manager Art Howe said to Billy Beane who took Sabermetrics (analytics) to a whole new level 'Billy when I took this job you said you got control of what players we have and I got control of the clubhouse and lineup. That ship has sailed and that's too bad.
That was an agreement that was made before Billy Beane tried to implement Money Ball. That's why after Billy Beane tried to address Howe's resistance by apologizing for not getting him on board first with his new way to build a team. Later on in the movie when Howe was out of ideas in the game he brought in Chris Pratt's character (which was what Moneyball was calling for) and to his surprise it won them the game.
Jays have a top 5 salary. Analytics are very important in sports. Don’t confuse a stupid decision with numbers not being integral.
@@DepthFromAbove I've listened to my first baseball game in 1961 you? Don't be condescending. Clearly from what we've seen analytics is ok for prep but in game it's different. Just look at the other day.
@@DSP_2.0You do know that that movie has a lot of made-up conversations that never actually happened, right? You might want to cite something accurate to make your point.
Geurrero has to go been going downhill for 3 years enough he has shown his true colors and is not as good as everyone thought
Never in Shape
Vlady is a Bum he has to be Traded never comes to camp is shape
Fooling around all the time, even when they are losing. Unacceptable!
They traded away the two lesser immature players in Teo & Gueriel but everyone is complaining. Can’t have it both ways.
You can't figure out who made the decision to pull Berrios? Really! It was Shapiro and Atkins, who else do you think had the power to make the decision!
Vladdy did make a bone head move getting picked but the turning point in the game definitly was pulling Berrios when he was hot ..That gave Minnesota offence life .IF Berrios stays in then maybe the score is 0-0 when Vladdy is at 2nd base ,In a tie game he would not have been under as much pressure to score so maybe he doesnt take that large of a lead and doenst get picked ,you never know
You are correct. If Schneider leaves Berrios in I am quite certain the score remains 0-0 as well. They also picked the wrong pitcher who ended up matching up with only one hitter who reached base anyways. Kikuchi had an ERA over 5.00 in September and is horrible with runners on. Sorry to say that I don't think Vladdy is the brightest bulb in the box and the same goes for Rivera. He sent Bo on that bonehead attempt to score. Vladdy took most of the year to figure out he was getting breaking balls all year. Then he started laying of practically everything.
The challenge wave omg 😅😅😅
The Leafs of the MLB
Expectations for this team were way higher than previous year...chapman...argh
The problems all season were on show. Hitting , coaching and heartless. Bring back the jacket!!
This is why I laughed when they kept saying if the Jays make it in they could be dangerous. Give me a break. Not a jays fan just saying it was all garbage.
Most batting averages were down, year for year that lays on players and hitting coaches. Keep the pitching staff and fill the holes with free agency and Vladdy grow up. They moved Gurriel and Hernandez for immature and lazy baseball maybe it is the clubhouse.
Go BLEW JAYS Go!
What's matter to the owners and FO is the P&L, how much revenue are coming in each season. I will not be going to the game as often and purchase any merchandise next season., also, the economy is expected to get worst next few years, tightening up the budget is a wise move. That's the only things fans can affect a tiny fraction of it.
I strongly suspect the agreed plan was yank Berrios if he gets in trouble early and go with leftie tough guy Kikuchi instead of the pen. A guy on 1B after 47 pitches in a scoreless game doesn't constitute trouble, rather an incompetent manager that panicked.
Data is good over the long period thats why poker players do not always follow the math
Let's say, Berrios stayed and gave up a home run to the next batter, we would be talking about different things. So it's all about what ifs. Jays lost the game because their offense failed to show.
Jays & Maple Leafs are cursed! 👹👿🤡
if that happened then so be it !! he was running a 3 inning shut out with 6 strikeouts ( out of a possible 9) pulling him when he was on a roll changed the whole game around .If the score is 0-0 maybe Vlad is not under as much pressure and he doesnt take that large of a lead off and doesnt get picked .right ?
Food for thought, .....Disney.....Warner Brothers...... told their fans, the people who buy the tickets and the popcorn and the merchandise, you are entitled to your opinions but, we know what we are doing and we will continue to do what we want the way we want.
Varsho didn’t even make contact with a baseball in both games…. merrifield rode the pine…. Biggio had one hit only… when they needed offence why didn’t Merrifield or Schneider make appearances?
Because they’re on cold streaks.
I do not think Guerrero is to blame after all he was the second best hitter on the team and drove in 90 RBIs. He hit too many double plays during the season and was often average in clutch situations. He could have been better. Nevertheless he cannot do it all and it is a team effort. The problem in the series was the same as the season. They could not hit especially with runners in scoring position. Vladdy error getting picked off would be an afterthought if the Jays scored 5 or 6 runs. Seriously they scored one run in two games. There were other series that were playoff like too and the dropped the ball. The management traded away some good hitting clutch players for better defence. The strategy failed. The team failed. The decision to pull Berrios was bad and i have seen them do that in the season to pitchers that were cruising. That was costly but likely they would have lost anyway without hitting and scoring more runs. Just go down the lineup and look at the players stats on RISP.
If this management is not doing everything theycan to help this team win a world series your just wasting the fans time.And the same question applies to the maple leafs Mangement also.
Choke. Choked. Choking. Chokers. Chokers choking until choked. They choke. They are chokers. WE watched them choking.
The superstition of never saying the word CHOKE is not working. They need to talk about choking like the 70's Candaians did. They used the word choke to each other and became the best team ever. Fun fact
Wow. You really are a black-hat kind of a guy. The Blue Jays had a great season and we should be proud of them. I'm glad that you no longer follow them. Good riddance.
Ross Atkins thinks he is starring in MoneyBall.
I like the Jays. I will always like the Jays. That Chapman hit lands 12 inches the right and this conversation isn’t happening. Go Jays
Keep drinking the Kool Aid!
Ross Atkins need to go and so does John Schneider.
More than just the Superbowl halftime show, T Swift is spiking the female demo of Chiefs games 😂
Its funny how they don't give credit to the twins. Sonny grey shut them out and berrios was giving up walks. He has history of faultering from emotions.
not liking o-dogg in the middle lol.
we all know noodles is the middle brother.
odogg can almost reach little bro hayes to smack him lol
The main point is about Jays players their heart and mind aren't at the game during the time playing. That's why they aren't play well at all.
This team leads the league in Brain Farts !
Guerrero isn't a franchise guy,
Vlad...ability but no character.Not a dedicated professional.
i would not trade him though .30 HR 100RBI guys dont grow on trees .The Jays need a veteran ,someone like Paul Molitor to mentor Vlad and tell him to stop doing stupid things ,The only problem is that he must also speak Dominican bc Vlad cant speak English lol
Vlad chapman varsho biggio belt keirmeir all need to go. If you want to completely change the offensive culture of this team. The most unclutch team i v seen in my life
Poor blue Jays fans suffering from management secrets
YOU CANNOT WIN WITH ZERO RUNS. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU BRING SUPERMAN IN FROM THE BULLPEN …. 0-0 is not a win…
ASK THE LEAFS! 😂
You will never win with a Double A manager
Pencil Neck😂
Vlad's strikes me as someone who has difficulties adapting. He shows the same bad habits when batting since he began as a rookie. Perhaps the most convincing point is the inability to speak english. This is someone who grew up on baseball diamonds with dad since enfancy in a primarily anglophone environment. He had opportunities that few latin kids have to learn a foreign language. Many latin players, some younger than Vlad, do well when in front of a mic. Granted, he might prefer to remain low-key and avoid interviews but this would reflect little perseverance and leadership qualities,
@@fishkeg how do u know? u talk to him? buddy is right..why is he always with the interpreter?
Vlad is the new Manny Ramirez. His personality is lackadaisical & that’s fine when the production is there. &infuriating when it isn’t. He might mature in 10 years, but not any time soon. That’s not how life works.
I already turned down my renewal option for season seats, I will not buy tickets as long as Mickey Mouse management is still there. Not to pile on, but vlad is not ‘the’ guy
Someone else bought them before you hit, post.
Terrible game! The Blue Jays weren't even competive in this wild card series. No one showed up offensively , bats went cold when you needed them like all year. Leaving men on base.
Sloppy plays like Vlad getting picked off on second base etc.
They didn't even allow David Schneider a chance when players are not hitting.
John is an ok manager but Toronto needs a more experienced coach with a sense of urgency. John is just a 2.0 version of Charlie. All analytics and no going with your gut feeling. Sometimes you need to just do what's right and not what analytics say.
John and the organization knew the twins had the upper hand on Gausman but they started him in the series anyway.
Guys like Vlad were a let down this season. These are the guys that should be making an impact and coming through when you need them. What a wasted year, especially that we had the pitching...
Time for a clean sweep in the organization starting from the top down to the coach..
Atkins and John Schneider need to both go.
Mark Shapiro too
Analytics is so damn stupid. It didn't work for the Athletics.
The problem is that a woke and narcissistic Ross Atkins was arrogantly dictating disastrous game strategies from behind the scenes. ✔️
John Schneider is one of the biggest idiot to ever manage this team, I'm so angry and hurt over this loss, plus I still have not gotten over the loss against Seattle last year.😪
GOOD NEWS: Maple Leafs season starts soon..... oops, BAD NEWS! 👹🤡👿
what hapoened was that the messiah guerro showed his true value as a team player...overpaid...overpriced....over weight....trade him to AAA buffalo !!!