I am a certified dry kiln operator of what I can see you need a fan inside your chamber to continually circulate your air so you'll get an even air flow in the top and bottom of your chamber but so you get dead air, then you'll have an even humidity throughout your totes.
Hey thanks for watching. I do have a small fan in there but I do think I need a bigger fan. As someone with experience when doing green wood what is the humidity readings you are looking for when the wood is dry? I got down to 30 and wood was right at 20 but only started at 28 or what is the determining factor to know it's done drying?
Rockwool I think is stable to around 800f. People use it as exterior insulation in forest fire prone areas. You can probably line the inside of your kiln with that. You can also insulate your pipes for greater efficiency. You may also want to insulate the floor. Ie put down rockwool comfort board (much higher psi than batt) then some steel.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewoodI’m trying to dial in my own kiln as well. Does it help to have a dehumidifier inside the kiln to pull the humidity out of the air while trying to dry it down? I have a dehumidifier that I can hook up to a drain line that I can run outside of the kiln. What’s your thoughts sir?
Rockwool I think is stable to around 800f. People use it as exterior insulation in forest fire prone areas. You can probably line the inside of your kiln with that. You can also insulate your pipes for greater efficiency. You may also want to insulate the floor. Ie put down rockwool comfort board (much higher psi than batt) then some steel. You should also vent the humid air once the humidity gets high or else the wood will reabsorb the moisture when it cools down, defeating the purpose of drying it. One way to do that is to not have a plastic layer in all or part of your enclosure.
I will have to look into some of those suggestions, thanks for the insight. I insulated the floor this week and plan on adding a humidity controlled vent fan soon. I just started a second run and using a temp/ humidity data logger to try and learn even more about how this thing will run. I truly appreciate the advice
I have NO experience with kiln drying wood, this video is my introduction on the topic. However, I have experiences in other areas that may help. 1) as a poultry farmer, I have experience using those temperature/humidity probes. When I tried using them to manage my incubators, I never found two that gave the same results, especially with respect to humidity. Each was consistent, but unless you have a way of calibrating the readings, you won't know what your actual humidity is. 2) As a hardwood flooring installer on the wet coast, I often battled humdity in new construction. I needed my subfloors dry before I could install. I used a wood moisture meter that had two metal probes that were plunged into the wood. It wasn't that expensive but gave accurate and consistent results. It stood up to the scrutiny of impatient builders and skeptical insurance companies. In your situation, I would split a piece of wood and measure the internal moisture. Further, I observed impatient builders try all kinds of things to dry out homes. The homes that opened the windows, letting in the moist outside air during the workday seemed to dry faster than when the home remained closed up all day. As Treestofirewood suggests, ventilation may be just as important as heat.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I ordered a moisture/temp data logger that came with a certificate of calibration because of that reason. I'm using it now and it's about 10 degrees behind the one I used for the first run. I do have a moisture meter and I did split and test before it went in and after it was done. It definitely dried it some. And I agree after talking to Matt Trees to firewood and Ben that also left some comments I plan to add ventilation soon. This thing definitely has a learning curve to it and I appreciate everyone's insight Thanks again
@@shotlifffamilyfirewood yes, I noticed after commenting that you did in fact have a probe type wood moisture meter. Sorry for overlooking that. Being able to compare other data sources to it will allow you to collect meaningful data from all other instruments. Thanks for the idea sharing. It has me thinking about wood processing and utilization in ways I wasn't previously.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewood I have 2 handheld moisture meters, on has settings for the type of wood that you need to select; the other one does not. I guess it affects the reading, but if you just look at the relative change in % it does not matter to have exact numbers. On a side note; both meters advised to hold the 2 pins across the grains of the wood, so try not mesuring in the same strand of fiber but 90° cross the wood. And you are right, always split the wood first and read on the inside
I think in future an easier way maybe a shipping container with the heat in and out - a fan in - fan out... Stack your IBC tote baskets in - close doors leave for a few days... Then empty with pallet truck or fork lift/ etc...
Does moisture in firewood mitigate from dry outside to inside and vice-versa? In other words does it balance out through the wood? We see kilns working from time to time and I always wonder...😊
That is a great question and Honestly I don't really know. I have only just started doing the kiln drying. If it does it would definitely take a good amount of time to happen. I will have to check some moistures again after it sits for a while
An Idea you may look into is a solar kiln. I want to build one for hardwood lumber. With that style the air is drawn through the board stacking slats. I wonder if drawing air through the crates would help speed the process.
Evening, different concept. I think I may have that same moisture meter. Are you using the correct setting for your application? I think setting C for oak will give you the correct moisture content. Probably be lower than what you were reading. Good luck!
@603gears yes c Is the right setting for oak I just watched again and can't believe I was on the wrong setting. I always try to make sure I change it to the right one. They are fairly close usually but I want to be right that's why I bought the thing. I will have to keep a closer eye on that. Thank you
Well it looks like you had a lot better success than I did . In the next video can you explain and show the 2 pipes on the side by the stove and also explain the insulated duck work on the bottom . Trees to firewood knows his stuff about kilns he’s the go to guy if ya wana learn about kilns . I just wish I was better at learning . I basically gave up but seeing you build a smaller sized one is giving me some hope . You certainly had a lot better luck getting the temp up than I did but it is almost like starting over each morning . Gota find a way to keep the heat going all night without sleeping next to the stove lol . I know you have a wood boiler is there any way you can tap into that heat source at least for the over night . I will be watching to see ya progress and hopefully learn a thing or 2 . Thanks Brian .
Thanks for watching Phil, and I can definitely do more of an explanation on it soon. Once I get to outside protected with cement board or something then I might not be so nervous to really fill the thing up to make it a little longer through the night (hopefully) and yes definitely plenty to learn yet. I watched a lot of trees to firewood in my planning process, but sometimes we still have to learn from our own mistakes before we can truly learn.
Heat treating is one thing. How are you extracting the moisture? Not sure if you have seen my kiln series. But you will get a whole lot of info on operating the kiln to be able to dry the wood along with getting the inside up to temp. But good stuff so far.
Hey thanks for watching so far I was just counting on the dry wood heat and the air movement to do the drying. It did remove some moisture but I have a feeling when I get in really green wood or humid conditions that might not cut it.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewood true but the moisture has to go somewhere. If you’re just circulating the air the moisture is just circulating. I tried that back in the day and it didn’t work. If your goal is just to heat treat then that’s fine. But if you want to actually dry the wood you have to start venting the moisture out. It’s tricky science to get it right. I adjust my kiln cycle per moisture content. It’s a learning curve. Make sure you document everything so you can remember what you’re doing. And always keep the temp up. Do not let the fire go out because you are almost restarting. May not seem like it but you are. And you will want to get temp to at least 145 in the wood to make sure all the wood is at least 140. And if you only have 1 prob put it on the inside of the tote on the bottom.
@@Treestofirewoodto tack onto your point wet air is much more difficult to heat than dry air as water has a high specific heat value. As your ambient humidity values fall the air will require less btus to get hotter which increases the rate of drying. A little vent fan on a humidity temp controller like elitech on Amazon walk that humidity value down over a few days and bang on.
@@geogesterrett6391 you would be correct. My sensors work great and helps bring humidity down while raising the temp. Otherwise all that wet air just stays in the kiln
Thanks for watching Jeremiah. And Matt over at trees to firewood said the same thing. My first hope was that the drying effect of the wood heat would be enough. I will put it to the test when I get some good green firewood here soon.
Thanks for watching Brandon. The intention isn't to have to continue drying after the kiln but I'm just learning and was unsure what it would be after being in the kiln. There will be a learning curve for sure
@mosbysmen-ozarks I guess I just went in the top because the heat comes off the top of the furnace and the air in the kiln has to circulate anyway. I never really considered pipping it down to the bottom.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewoodgiven that hot air rises putting your insert pipe at the bottom & your exit pipe at the top would have created natural air flow.
I thought about doing something like this on a larger scale... I think you had the better idea going smaller. I have an outdoor boiler that keeps about 300 gallons of water between 160 and 170 degrees for 8 to 10 hours on a single stoking but that only runs at most 4 months of the year. Think of all the wood I could dry the rest of the year.
@ronaldmcbride7907 I also have a boiler I could hook up to this in the future. I didn't want to spend another fortune on the thermo pex to get this far away but it would be possible
Why have plastic inside the kiln? Isn't that keeping moisture trapped inside? I assume the plastic is just being used as an air barrier. If so, you can buy air-tight, but vapor permeable fabric that homebuilders use (Siga Majvest) for high performance 'tight' homes. That way you can keep hot air circulating but allow the excess moisture to escape thru the vapor permeable fabric.
Yes I did the plastic just thinking it would help keep the temps up inside. I guess I didn't really consider anything else for the inside. I will look into it. Thank you for the suggestion
Kind of a great mind think alike. The only thing I can see is you need a fresh air inlet and an outlet with a fan to blow out the humid air. Mine does it through the fresh air intake on my DACA and out my stove pipe as my unit is inside kiln. Feel free to check out my video on my other channel ua-cam.com/video/mC-dyGqDCmE/v-deo.html
Another thing is you can't test it straight out the kiln The wood has to completely cool down to the room temperature and then what will happen is it will balance out so where the outside with zero and the inside was 22 it will balance out to a lower number on the inside. It's called resting I usually wait 3 to 4 hours before I test to get an actual reading
I received your email I thought I lost it, a neighbor kid came over and found it, I wrote down your email and sent a test it came back undelivered I don't know what to do now.
Too much wood and paper your going to end up burning the barn down. You would be better off with an old refer truck body, you also need a fan to circulate the air and exhaust the moisture. Good luck be careful.
@georgepetrask8723 I agree with you I was very nervous running it and i watched it incredibly close but wanted to make sure it worked. I'm going to be putting cement board on it like it would be in a house to protect it more. Again I just needed proof of concept before adding cost.
I am a certified dry kiln operator of what I can see you need a fan inside your chamber to continually circulate your air so you'll get an even air flow in the top and bottom of your chamber but so you get dead air, then you'll have an even humidity throughout your totes.
Hey thanks for watching. I do have a small fan in there but I do think I need a bigger fan. As someone with experience when doing green wood what is the humidity readings you are looking for when the wood is dry? I got down to 30 and wood was right at 20 but only started at 28 or what is the determining factor to know it's done drying?
@@bendugas8632 shotlifffamilyfirewood@gmail.com
@@shotlifffamilyfirewoodyou may want to buy some kiln dried firewood and see what the moisture on that is.
Rockwool I think is stable to around 800f. People use it as exterior insulation in forest fire prone areas. You can probably line the inside of your kiln with that. You can also insulate your pipes for greater efficiency. You may also want to insulate the floor. Ie put down rockwool comfort board (much higher psi than batt) then some steel.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewoodI’m trying to dial in my own kiln as well. Does it help to have a dehumidifier inside the kiln to pull the humidity out of the air while trying to dry it down? I have a dehumidifier that I can hook up to a drain line that I can run outside of the kiln. What’s your thoughts sir?
Great lookin. Love innovation. Subscribed to your channel.
Thank you I truly appreciate it. It's been a fun project so far with more improvements to come
Rockwool I think is stable to around 800f. People use it as exterior insulation in forest fire prone areas. You can probably line the inside of your kiln with that. You can also insulate your pipes for greater efficiency. You may also want to insulate the floor. Ie put down rockwool comfort board (much higher psi than batt) then some steel.
You should also vent the humid air once the humidity gets high or else the wood will reabsorb the moisture when it cools down, defeating the purpose of drying it. One way to do that is to not have a plastic layer in all or part of your enclosure.
I will have to look into some of those suggestions, thanks for the insight. I insulated the floor this week and plan on adding a humidity controlled vent fan soon. I just started a second run and using a temp/ humidity data logger to try and learn even more about how this thing will run. I truly appreciate the advice
Couldn't you dry the wood at the same time by blowing the heat in the bottom and venting the top slightly?
I have NO experience with kiln drying wood, this video is my introduction on the topic. However, I have experiences in other areas that may help.
1) as a poultry farmer, I have experience using those temperature/humidity probes. When I tried using them to manage my incubators, I never found two that gave the same results, especially with respect to humidity. Each was consistent, but unless you have a way of calibrating the readings, you won't know what your actual humidity is.
2) As a hardwood flooring installer on the wet coast, I often battled humdity in new construction. I needed my subfloors dry before I could install. I used a wood moisture meter that had two metal probes that were plunged into the wood. It wasn't that expensive but gave accurate and consistent results. It stood up to the scrutiny of impatient builders and skeptical insurance companies. In your situation, I would split a piece of wood and measure the internal moisture.
Further, I observed impatient builders try all kinds of things to dry out homes. The homes that opened the windows, letting in the moist outside air during the workday seemed to dry faster than when the home remained closed up all day. As Treestofirewood suggests, ventilation may be just as important as heat.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I ordered a moisture/temp data logger that came with a certificate of calibration because of that reason. I'm using it now and it's about 10 degrees behind the one I used for the first run.
I do have a moisture meter and I did split and test before it went in and after it was done. It definitely dried it some. And I agree after talking to Matt Trees to firewood and Ben that also left some comments I plan to add ventilation soon.
This thing definitely has a learning curve to it and I appreciate everyone's insight
Thanks again
@@shotlifffamilyfirewood yes, I noticed after commenting that you did in fact have a probe type wood moisture meter. Sorry for overlooking that. Being able to compare other data sources to it will allow you to collect meaningful data from all other instruments.
Thanks for the idea sharing. It has me thinking about wood processing and utilization in ways I wasn't previously.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewood I have 2 handheld moisture meters, on has settings for the type of wood that you need to select; the other one does not. I guess it affects the reading, but if you just look at the relative change in % it does not matter to have exact numbers. On a side note; both meters advised to hold the 2 pins across the grains of the wood, so try not mesuring in the same strand of fiber but 90° cross the wood. And you are right, always split the wood first and read on the inside
I think in future an easier way maybe a shipping container with the heat in and out - a fan in - fan out... Stack your IBC tote baskets in - close doors leave for a few days... Then empty with pallet truck or fork lift/ etc...
Pretty cool.
Does moisture in firewood mitigate from dry outside to inside and vice-versa? In other words does it balance out through the wood? We see kilns working from time to time and I always wonder...😊
That is a great question and Honestly I don't really know. I have only just started doing the kiln drying. If it does it would definitely take a good amount of time to happen. I will have to check some moistures again after it sits for a while
Way to go, keep cuttin'!
An Idea you may look into is a solar kiln. I want to build one for hardwood lumber. With that style the air is drawn through the board stacking slats. I wonder if drawing air through the crates would help speed the process.
Evening, different concept. I think I may have that same moisture meter. Are you using the correct setting for your application? I think setting C for oak will give you the correct moisture content. Probably be lower than what you were reading. Good luck!
@603gears yes c Is the right setting for oak I just watched again and can't believe I was on the wrong setting. I always try to make sure I change it to the right one. They are fairly close usually but I want to be right that's why I bought the thing. I will have to keep a closer eye on that. Thank you
Interesting, I’ve considered trying to build a small kiln if I ever have the time.
Thanks for watching. There's some improvements to make but for a first run it's seems to have potential
Well it looks like you had a lot better success than I did . In the next video can you explain and show the 2 pipes on the side by the stove and also explain the insulated duck work on the bottom . Trees to firewood knows his stuff about kilns he’s the go to guy if ya wana learn about kilns . I just wish I was better at learning . I basically gave up but seeing you build a smaller sized one is giving me some hope . You certainly had a lot better luck getting the temp up than I did but it is almost like starting over each morning . Gota find a way to keep the heat going all night without sleeping next to the stove lol . I know you have a wood boiler is there any way you can tap into that heat source at least for the over night . I will be watching to see ya progress and hopefully learn a thing or 2 . Thanks Brian .
Thanks for watching Phil, and I can definitely do more of an explanation on it soon. Once I get to outside protected with cement board or something then I might not be so nervous to really fill the thing up to make it a little longer through the night (hopefully) and yes definitely plenty to learn yet. I watched a lot of trees to firewood in my planning process, but sometimes we still have to learn from our own mistakes before we can truly learn.
Heat treating is one thing. How are you extracting the moisture? Not sure if you have seen my kiln series. But you will get a whole lot of info on operating the kiln to be able to dry the wood along with getting the inside up to temp. But good stuff so far.
Hey thanks for watching so far I was just counting on the dry wood heat and the air movement to do the drying. It did remove some moisture but I have a feeling when I get in really green wood or humid conditions that might not cut it.
Thanks for watching though! And I have watched most of your kiln videos but probably not all of them. I'll keep trying to fit them in
@@shotlifffamilyfirewood true but the moisture has to go somewhere. If you’re just circulating the air the moisture is just circulating. I tried that back in the day and it didn’t work. If your goal is just to heat treat then that’s fine. But if you want to actually dry the wood you have to start venting the moisture out. It’s tricky science to get it right. I adjust my kiln cycle per moisture content. It’s a learning curve. Make sure you document everything so you can remember what you’re doing. And always keep the temp up. Do not let the fire go out because you are almost restarting. May not seem like it but you are. And you will want to get temp to at least 145 in the wood to make sure all the wood is at least 140. And if you only have 1 prob put it on the inside of the tote on the bottom.
@@Treestofirewoodto tack onto your point wet air is much more difficult to heat than dry air as water has a high specific heat value. As your ambient humidity values fall the air will require less btus to get hotter which increases the rate of drying. A little vent fan on a humidity temp controller like elitech on Amazon walk that humidity value down over a few days and bang on.
@@geogesterrett6391 you would be correct. My sensors work great and helps bring humidity down while raising the temp. Otherwise all that wet air just stays in the kiln
Pretty cool setup Brian! I just wonder if you need a way to let the moisture out. Great job👍👍
Thanks for watching Jeremiah. And Matt over at trees to firewood said the same thing. My first hope was that the drying effect of the wood heat would be enough. I will put it to the test when I get some good green firewood here soon.
Congrats on the working kiln. I'm wondering if heat treating and then having to let it dry more defeats the purpose
Thanks for watching Brandon. The intention isn't to have to continue drying after the kiln but I'm just learning and was unsure what it would be after being in the kiln. There will be a learning curve for sure
sounds like a good idea , why not have the heat going in at the bottom and the return at the top , heat rises
@mosbysmen-ozarks I guess I just went in the top because the heat comes off the top of the furnace and the air in the kiln has to circulate anyway. I never really considered pipping it down to the bottom.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewoodgiven that hot air rises putting your insert pipe at the bottom & your exit pipe at the top would have created natural air flow.
I thought about doing something like this on a larger scale... I think you had the better idea going smaller. I have an outdoor boiler that keeps about 300 gallons of water between 160 and 170 degrees for 8 to 10 hours on a single stoking but that only runs at most 4 months of the year. Think of all the wood I could dry the rest of the year.
@ronaldmcbride7907 I also have a boiler I could hook up to this in the future. I didn't want to spend another fortune on the thermo pex to get this far away but it would be possible
I think you go across the grain with moisture meter not with the grain. you get 2 different readings
Why have plastic inside the kiln? Isn't that keeping moisture trapped inside? I assume the plastic is just being used as an air barrier. If so, you can buy air-tight, but vapor permeable fabric that homebuilders use (Siga Majvest) for high performance 'tight' homes. That way you can keep hot air circulating but allow the excess moisture to escape thru the vapor permeable fabric.
Yes I did the plastic just thinking it would help keep the temps up inside. I guess I didn't really consider anything else for the inside. I will look into it.
Thank you for the suggestion
Kind of a great mind think alike. The only thing I can see is you need a fresh air inlet and an outlet with a fan to blow out the humid air.
Mine does it through the fresh air intake on my DACA and out my stove pipe as my unit is inside kiln.
Feel free to check out my video on my other channel
ua-cam.com/video/mC-dyGqDCmE/v-deo.html
Another thing is you can't test it straight out the kiln The wood has to completely cool down to the room temperature and then what will happen is it will balance out so where the outside with zero and the inside was 22 it will balance out to a lower number on the inside. It's called resting I usually wait 3 to 4 hours before I test to get an actual reading
Thanks for the tips, and I checked out your video and also subscribed to your channel. I'll be watching more.
I would suggest a small dehumidifier inside that box to pull the water
@rufustoad1 I was actually just looking at them. Thanks for watching and the suggestion.
@@shotlifffamilyfirewoodunfortunately dehumidifier will not work above 90-120 degrees depending on brand
I received your email I thought I lost it, a neighbor kid came over and found it, I wrote down your email and sent a test it came back undelivered I don't know what to do now.
bshotliff04@gmail.com should work. I'm not sure why the other wouldn't work sorry about that
I think a vacuum system would be far faster and more reliable.
Can you do that diy and cheap?
Too much wood and paper your going to end up burning the barn down. You would be better off with an old refer truck body, you also need a fan to circulate the air and exhaust the moisture. Good luck be careful.
@georgepetrask8723 I agree with you I was very nervous running it and i watched it incredibly close but wanted to make sure it worked. I'm going to be putting cement board on it like it would be in a house to protect it more. Again I just needed proof of concept before adding cost.
I tried to answer your request but it didn't go through if I had your email then I could probably help you out.
@@bendugas8632 shotlifffamilyfirewood@gmail.com. I appreciate it
Can you please resend your email I had it and I lost it sorry about that.