Hi Folks: For all those who asked me how to build a laser center finder, you can buy one now at www.centerquic.com. I got one as a gift from the vendor and checked it out. It is well made and well designed.
I had many requests for drawings to build a lase center finder, so here is the link: drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#folders/0ByWaTeq__NX1eWtXQjIwWnU3V0E
I really like how you keep things cheap and relatively simple Dan. It's a sign of a talented engineer, which you've surely demonstrated. Thanks for sharing your tips with us
Me too, center finder and camera. I have and use a laser pointer, but I never thought of setting it up like an edge finder, another project, thanks Dan. Charles
Hi Dan, Nice video. The laser center finder is quite elegant and simple. One question I have is can you develop enough clamping force with the small diameter drawbar handwheel to compress the collet in the spindle? Many people have experienced the cutter pulling out of the collet while milling slots and pockets. I'm wondering if you have a wrench handy in case you want to do a heavier cut. Kind regards, Tom
Dan Gelbart A 5c collet has a 20 degree angle on the nose, while an R8 has a 30 degree angle on the nose. Making an R8 collet harder to close than a 5C collet. Nice trick, but for heavier cuts I'm with Tom.
Ran a bridgeport for 20 years and never saw that light indicator. The handwheel drawbar idea is cool but that roughing endmill would pull right out of the collet with such a whimpy torque. But i am curious what the hole was on center behind the knee waycover? This man is a genius. I would love a tour of such a place.
The hole is for an adapter that converts the mill into a horizontal mill (the hole is the arbor bushing). The adapter was a standard Bridgeport accessory, probably no longer available.
Dan, Thank you for the great series. I curious about the hand wheel. It looks like it can save a lot of time. It has to be taller than the quill travel, does that impose a max speed? How did you balance it? Is it supported with a bushing or bearing inside the spindle top? Is there still a nut section for hard clamping or do you find it unnecessary? Do you every need to knock the collects out, or is the hand weight enough?
The laser centre finder is a nice trick. I don't like the quick adjust quill stop nuts because I've had them shift and ruined work/tools as a result. I made a video not that long ago making quill stop spacers that give a you a solid stop, but mean you don't have to move the nut far. The 4 jaw chuck appears to be a self centering, but you don't make it clear if it is a scroll chuck, or an independent (of even a combination chuck). I know machinists who are fans of 4 jaw scroll chucks, but they never worked with hot rolled stock.
If done correctly it will never shift. I've used this system on all my drill presses and also on table saw arbors for 40 years and never had a problem. Follow these rules: Hole size=thread OD, Tilt (top and bottom of nut)=thread depth, minimum length of nut=1.2 thread OD, 1.5 better. Use mill to cut hole. I suspect your nut may have been too short.
These type of knobs or nuts are quite common. I have used many and never had one fail to do its intended function. Many styles are available. www.mcmaster.com/#machine-component-knobs/=14x2tum www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06927545 These two are the type I prefer for machine usage. www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00233031 This one is easy enough to make, especially at that price. www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09506114 I have made several for various machines over the last 40+ years and they are all still in use today. Mike (o\!/o)
Anyone have an idea of what material the brown plastic/ceramic housing was made of? The one he discusses late regarding bullnose end mills and fixturing.
What type of rear view camera/screen did you use for your lathe tool viewing camera? I see a lot of brands on Amazon/eBay, but I'm not sure which one will work and which one won't work. Also, regarding changing the optics so that it focuses very close and is magnified, do you just remove the original lens and flip it around? Do you have to change the distance between the original lens and the image sensor so that it can be focused with a long working distance? Thanks, Matt
Hi Dan, you mentioned on Practical Machinist that you might do another video on other methods of center/edge finding. i just wanted to encourage you to do so, in fact any more content would be fantastic!
Dear Mr. Gelbart! I constructed a laser-centering jig similar to this. However, when I used it to drill a hole on a flat surface, the accuracy was horrible - about 0.5 mm error in the hole position. It seems that unaided eye have a hard time to distinguish positional error of a center mark within laser circle with a suitable accuracy. So, my question is - when you say "50 micron accuracy", do you mean mainly positioning on cylindrical surfaces, where positional displacement is more obvious via tilt/tip of the laser circle? Do you use some kind of close-up camera to accurately locate centers on flat surface? I have quite good vision, but cannot locate a center point within the laser circle to 50 micron accuracy. Am I missing something? Thanks for all your great videos, they are much appreciated!
On cylindrical surfaces or on cross drilling a cylinder the error is magnified and it is easy to get 50um. When aligning to a mark on a flat surface, like a center punch mark, you need to make the laser circle very small, about 1mm diameter. If you do that you will get 50-100um. I suspect you used a large circle on a flat surface.
Hi Dan I love your nifty laser center finder and I want to make one and did some thinking ... I thought I would turn it ON with the rotation and when no rotation it's OFF. Are there situations where you need the laser ON when it's NOT rotating ?
I thought of this too. Could use a mercury tilt switch on its side as a centrifugal switch. The only problem I can think of is accidentally storing it in an orientation where it could switch on. As I was typing this, I had an idea about adding a low volume buzzer that is on when the laser is on. It'll not be annoying when the machine is running, but would alert you if the laser is on when it shouldn't be.
Very true, I love these machines. The good news is that Omax has a small unit now, called Protomax, about 12"x12" format, very compact and runs on single phase 240V 30A. The price is around $20,000.
YOu can get them cheap on Ebay: www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Focusable-3-5V-650nm-5mW-Red-Laser-DOT-Diode-Module-12x35mm-/121212852782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c38d95a2e
I would want that laser center finder but the cost is a little bit steep. I found this weird tool named "laser monkey", meant for aligning the wheel on motorcycles I guess... it looks like it could work for this application too.
@@dgelbart It's still a great invention. I just thought I tell about my finding to other people who might be seeking for an option. I am actually planning on building something similar myself.
If you have a 3D printer, you can also print one out, i've uploaded the OpenSCAD Source and .stl files here. It is drawn to fit a 68mm quill on our Bridgeport, but fully parametric, so you can adjust to suit in OpenSCAD. www.thingiverse.com/thing:1483955
No worries. My mill is a Makino KE55, a wonderful machine no longer in production. The Jet, a very good machine, is used only for very light milling and mainly drilling. I have other fancy machines but no point showing them in a video done mainly for students.
@@dgelbart I know you get this feedback a lot, and I know you're a busy guy with lots of priorities besides making videos... but man, I'd love a shop tour of the other fancy machines you've got, particularly if you've got any other cool modifications you could show off. I'm not a machinist or engineer (UX designer, actually), but I am very interested in the way you innovate and solve problems. Surprisingly applicable to my own line of work, even if not directly.
Tom MCCune, how do you know the Switch on the Mill isn't switching the VFD? Having watched most of the videos now, I can't believe he would be making such an error, in fact I bet one of Dan's other hobby is editing/correcting instruction manuals.
Dear Don i have got mill with 3 ph motor .i hope that the rpm frequency controller will solve the problem ...i don't have 3 ph but single ph 220v ac i was looking at amazon for controller but there is so many of them and i got lost which one will do the job ...converting 220 ac in to 3 phase ..please advice or better send link . thank you . Stan ps . please contact me directly if trough you tube correspondence is uncomfortable stanislawcollection.com
Up to a few HP you can run the 3 phase VFD from a single phase. Here is one: www.amazon.com/Variable-Frequency-TwoWin-Inverter-Converter/dp/B08K32PNVP/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=VFD+single+phase+input+220V&qid=1612324341&sr=8-6
You do realise this man is an electrical engineer with 30+ years experience designing complex electrical, optical and mechanical components? Dan could make a VFD in his home workshop in an afternoon... Trust that if he has placed a switch in that location, then it will perform just fine
The laser centre finder is extremely cool.
as is the camera!!!
your video series is really among the most valueable content on the internet.
thank you for sharing!
thats true, i have watched many machinist channels among them americans are the best, but this is another level lol.
Hi Folks: For all those who asked me how to build a laser center finder, you can buy one now at www.centerquic.com.
I got one as a gift from the vendor and checked it out. It is well made and well designed.
Yeah, but we all still want to learn how to build it!
I had many requests for drawings to build a lase center finder, so here is the link: drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#folders/0ByWaTeq__NX1eWtXQjIwWnU3V0E
This is great could not down load link could you please email me drawing to gregkernick@hotmail.com
Thank you very much Dan.
I would have loved to apprentice under this man. You can tell he id's eager to share his vast wisdom
Brilliant work and great workshop. I do appreciate time saving as I spend half my life looking for things.
Thank you so much for sharing all those wonderful ideas with us !!
The laser idea is wonderful!
Thank you. I am getting so much from your videos.
I really like how you keep things cheap and relatively simple Dan. It's a sign of a talented engineer, which you've surely demonstrated. Thanks for sharing your tips with us
you sir are simply genius!
wish i had money for my own shop to tinker with, rather than working at factory for poor wage.
Super accessory that laser locator. Great video series! Thanks for sharing.
And the market responded :) ua-cam.com/video/u1BH00OL6Q0/v-deo.html
Dan, I recommend yours video`s to my friends, they are very useful. Secretly I see them to, 40 years in the trade but never to old to learn.
I,m particularly impressed with the centre finder such a simple idea, Thanks for sharing.
Jim
You are giving me some ideas , thanks a lot.
Fascinating, absolutely brilliant. Dale Derry recommended this channel.
Wow this is the best youtube channel. I'm glad I've found You Sir !!!
Me too, center finder and camera.
I have and use a laser pointer, but I never thought of setting it up like an edge finder, another project, thanks Dan.
Charles
I really like the laser center finder. Super smart
Now this Is a CLEAN workshop!
That laser Add on .... jesus im gone build me one ! Very nice !
priceless tips... bravo thank you
Hi Dan,
Nice video. The laser center finder is quite elegant and simple. One question I have is can you develop enough clamping force with the small diameter drawbar handwheel to compress the collet in the spindle? Many people have experienced the cutter pulling out of the collet while milling slots and pockets. I'm wondering if you have a wrench handy in case you want to do a heavier cut.
Kind regards,
Tom
Yes, handwheel is the same diameter as on a collet lathe Like Hardinge.
Dan Gelbart A 5c collet has a 20 degree angle on the nose, while an R8 has a 30 degree angle on the nose. Making an R8 collet harder to close than a 5C collet. Nice trick, but for heavier cuts I'm with Tom.
Wonderful! Yoda of the machine shop.
Priceless
So far i have taken Your advise in thechoice of the machines, the parameters, the type etc, and i have to say Thank You
damned this guy is good ! some really usefull advice and info !!!
Ran a bridgeport for 20 years and never saw that light indicator. The handwheel drawbar idea is cool but that roughing endmill would pull right out of the collet with such a whimpy torque. But i am curious what the hole was on center behind the knee waycover? This man is a genius. I would love a tour of such a place.
The hole is for an adapter that converts the mill into a horizontal mill (the hole is the arbor bushing). The adapter was a standard Bridgeport accessory, probably no longer available.
i just ordered it, thanks.
Dan, Thank you for the great series.
I curious about the hand wheel. It looks like it can save a lot of time.
It has to be taller than the quill travel, does that impose a max speed?
How did you balance it?
Is it supported with a bushing or bearing inside the spindle top?
Is there still a nut section for hard clamping or do you find it unnecessary?
Do you every need to knock the collects out, or is the hand weight enough?
We've all seen laser crosshairs, but this rotary laser center finder is amazing. And I thought 3d tasters were the thing ...
Feeling pretty chuffed that my Lathe is also a Weiler, maybe a little ageing at 55 years, but still very accurate
that laser ring center wow !
Next project, make a laser center finder ,brilliant!
Brilliant
The laser centre finder is a nice trick.
I don't like the quick adjust quill stop nuts because I've had them shift and ruined work/tools as a result. I made a video not that long ago making quill stop spacers that give a you a solid stop, but mean you don't have to move the nut far.
The 4 jaw chuck appears to be a self centering, but you don't make it clear if it is a scroll chuck, or an independent (of even a combination chuck). I know machinists who are fans of 4 jaw scroll chucks, but they never worked with hot rolled stock.
If done correctly it will never shift. I've used this system on all my drill presses and also on table saw arbors for 40 years and never had a problem. Follow these rules: Hole size=thread OD, Tilt (top and bottom of nut)=thread depth, minimum length of nut=1.2 thread OD, 1.5 better. Use mill to cut hole. I suspect your nut may have been too short.
These type of knobs or nuts are quite common. I have used many and never had one fail to do its intended function. Many styles are available.
www.mcmaster.com/#machine-component-knobs/=14x2tum
www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06927545
These two are the type I prefer for machine usage.
www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00233031
This one is easy enough to make, especially at that price.
www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09506114
I have made several for various machines over the last 40+ years and they are all still in use today.
Mike (o\!/o)
Anyone have an idea of what material the brown plastic/ceramic housing was made of? The one he discusses late regarding bullnose end mills and fixturing.
To Dan everything is easy and cheap;)
What type of rear view camera/screen did you use for your lathe tool viewing camera? I see a lot of brands on Amazon/eBay, but I'm not sure which one will work and which one won't work. Also, regarding changing the optics so that it focuses very close and is magnified, do you just remove the original lens and flip it around? Do you have to change the distance between the original lens and the image sensor so that it can be focused with a long working distance?
Thanks,
Matt
Matt Bockman Any camera + screen will work. No need to change lens, just move it further from CCD sensor(typically a few mm further).
I just discovered your channel. These videos are quite good.
Hope you're doing well. Alex Z.
Hi Dan, you mentioned on Practical Machinist that you might do another video on other methods of center/edge finding. i just wanted to encourage you to do so, in fact any more content would be fantastic!
Unfortunately I started a new company so no time left for videos in near future.
@@dgelbart This is a big loss for us. Your videos are the best thing I ever found on Internet, seriously.
If I had a reg'lar would leave can I make it into a one micron lathe Can't I use a laser measurement
I keep being asked about the laser center finder. Now there is at least one company selling it commercially: www.centerquic.com
Dear Mr. Gelbart! I constructed a laser-centering jig similar to this. However, when I used it to drill a hole on a flat surface, the accuracy was horrible - about 0.5 mm error in the hole position. It seems that unaided eye have a hard time to distinguish positional error of a center mark within laser circle with a suitable accuracy. So, my question is - when you say "50 micron accuracy", do you mean mainly positioning on cylindrical surfaces, where positional displacement is more obvious via tilt/tip of the laser circle? Do you use some kind of close-up camera to accurately locate centers on flat surface? I have quite good vision, but cannot locate a center point within the laser circle to 50 micron accuracy. Am I missing something?
Thanks for all your great videos, they are much appreciated!
On cylindrical surfaces or on cross drilling a cylinder the error is magnified and it is easy to get 50um. When aligning to a mark on a flat surface, like a center punch mark, you need to make the laser circle very small, about 1mm diameter. If you do that you will get 50-100um. I suspect you used a large circle on a flat surface.
just use a dial indicator man. that's what they're for.
@@fatihdurmaz9826 that's like saying "forget using a plane to get to Denver, that's what cars are for"
Hi Dan
I love your nifty laser center finder and I want to make one and did some thinking ...
I thought I would turn it ON with the rotation and when no rotation it's OFF.
Are there situations where you need the laser ON when it's NOT rotating ?
I thought of this too. Could use a mercury tilt switch on its side as a centrifugal switch.
The only problem I can think of is accidentally storing it in an orientation where it could switch on.
As I was typing this, I had an idea about adding a low volume buzzer that is on when the laser is on.
It'll not be annoying when the machine is running, but would alert you if the laser is on when it shouldn't be.
These are great videos, but every 'recipe' for making a part starts with "buy a water jet". ;)
Very true, I love these machines. The good news is that Omax has a small unit now, called Protomax, about 12"x12" format, very compact and runs on single phase 240V 30A. The price is around $20,000.
@@dgelbart Can I use this to build one that costs $2,000
nice idea! what laser did you use? what should i get? thanks!
YOu can get them cheap on Ebay: www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Focusable-3-5V-650nm-5mW-Red-Laser-DOT-Diode-Module-12x35mm-/121212852782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c38d95a2e
What micro mill do you use?
I would want that laser center finder but the cost is a little bit steep. I found this weird tool named "laser monkey", meant for aligning the wheel on motorcycles I guess... it looks like it could work for this application too.
I have nothing to do with the laser finder. I published the design and at least one company (centerquick) is making it.
@@dgelbart It's still a great invention. I just thought I tell about my finding to other people who might be seeking for an option. I am actually planning on building something similar myself.
That laser allignment tool is impressive! Why isnt this avaliable to buy?
Someone was making them for a while, but they were not selling well, so you have to make your own, which is easy.
If you have a 3D printer, you can also print one out, i've uploaded the OpenSCAD Source and .stl files here. It is drawn to fit a 68mm quill on our Bridgeport, but fully parametric, so you can adjust to suit in OpenSCAD. www.thingiverse.com/thing:1483955
I'm astonished to see a Jet knee mill and not a Bridgeport. Dan knows something I don't. (hahah, ya figure?)
No worries. My mill is a Makino KE55, a wonderful machine no longer in production. The Jet, a very good machine, is used only for very light milling and mainly drilling. I have other fancy machines but no point showing them in a video done mainly for students.
@@dgelbart I know you get this feedback a lot, and I know you're a busy guy with lots of priorities besides making videos... but man, I'd love a shop tour of the other fancy machines you've got, particularly if you've got any other cool modifications you could show off. I'm not a machinist or engineer (UX designer, actually), but I am very interested in the way you innovate and solve problems. Surprisingly applicable to my own line of work, even if not directly.
Regarding the drilling vice; please advise make and supplier
Regarding the laser centre finder; do you have basic drawings?
It's probably a Heinrich or it might be a Wilton. Google "cam action vise"
Tom MCCune, how do you know the Switch on the Mill isn't switching the VFD?
Having watched most of the videos now, I can't believe he would be making such an error, in fact I bet one of Dan's other hobby is editing/correcting instruction manuals.
Dear Don i have got mill with 3 ph motor .i hope that the rpm frequency controller will solve the problem ...i don't have 3 ph but single ph 220v ac
i was looking at amazon for controller but there is so many of them and i got lost which one will do the job ...converting 220 ac in to 3 phase ..please advice or better send link .
thank you .
Stan
ps . please contact me directly if trough you tube correspondence is uncomfortable stanislawcollection.com
Up to a few HP you can run the 3 phase VFD from a single phase. Here is one: www.amazon.com/Variable-Frequency-TwoWin-Inverter-Converter/dp/B08K32PNVP/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=VFD+single+phase+input+220V&qid=1612324341&sr=8-6
@@dgelbart you just save my life ...if i wouldn't be able to run my mill i would jump from high building .
Thank you so much for the link
Dan, i don`t understand who can dislike your video...Maybe, your ex-wife?))
Even she likes them.
No
To bad he didn't read the instructions for the VFD where it states do not put a switch in between the VFD and motor.
Assuming he didn't also run some control cables back to the VFD down that conduit.
You do realise this man is an electrical engineer with 30+ years experience designing complex electrical, optical and mechanical components?
Dan could make a VFD in his home workshop in an afternoon...
Trust that if he has placed a switch in that location, then it will perform just fine