Machining ultra thin shaft spacers and precision washers
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- This video will show you a technique for making precision washers or shaft spacers out of material as thin as .0015. I use a mill to start and finish on the lathe. Take a look.
- Наука та технологія
Good technique and demonstration. Looking forward to the next part. This stuff is great!Thank you.
Thanks for watching.
Putting rolling papers between the layers would probably improve your odds. You would lose rigidity a bit more than aluminum, but aluminum spinning on steel will erode it and on aluminum it will gall. Great demonstration on pinch turning. Always good information from a great machinist. This guy is who I wish I could have started training with. Had to teach myself. And I'm not a good teacher. 😂
The snag with self-teaching is we learn the mistakes.
Most interesting. Once I wanted some 1 inch discs (no centre hole) out of 28 thou brass and the only way I knew was to use a fly press, but not having one I got quotes and with the set up time for small numbers the price was not economic. I had to give the idea up, but this idea makes me think about revisiting that project. I could guillotine out squares and then with pressure, perhaps machine them into the circular discs I wanted. Thank you for the inspiration.
Piece of cake. Get to it.
Shims for the injectors on the old diesel Mercedes engines are very hard to come by, now I can make my own! Thanks!
No problem 👍
Enjoyed the lesson. Thank you Joe.
Glad you liked it.
Just found your channel, it's awesome. Subscribed!
Welcome and thank you
Joe, I enjoyed your video very much. Many would very challenged with such a project and in this world that is when another shop decides to give the job to a supporting shop. I also appreciated how you told us how,what kind of,and when to use certain tools and when not
to. Finally I really respect that you use manual machines.. I believe anyone who goes into the trade is helped a lot by learning on them as sometimes (at least to me) manual in many cases becomes the best way. Best regards, Go Pflu football!
amazing, thanks. And printer paper is typically .004" I used to build big printers.
Let me know when you build paper. we'll talk.
That's a great lesson, Joe. Thanks for noting all the subtleties to watch out for. There's a thin line between success and failure on an operation like this, and guidance from an experienced master makes all the difference.
I have to modify existing shims (.5 mm) for a different application. Original size is no longer available. 50 at a time. Internal arbor , threaded end with heavy clamping discs. Turn O.D. Insert stack in sleeve with internal thread cap, open on end to allow internal boring in lathe. Bore I.D. No longer available parts demand some creative solutions. My compliments to the bearing in your live center. Great video!
That is nearly exactly how I have done it in the past. Be careful about the threaded cap. Sometimes it can roll over really thin material and smash a few. But boring through the cap is the way to go. I do have video on that planned to post. Thanks for watching.
Hahaha
This is too cool.
Thanks for sharing Joe!
Thanks for watching and for hitting the sub button. Much appreciated.
Just a question to James Peterson. I’ve never seen a precision diameter bolt. Joe used a ground pin.
And about home lathes? I use a american pacemaker what’s in your garage?
Thanks ron
Shoulder bolts are about as close as you can get, but only for the diameter. the threads are still commercial grade.
Sometimes I need to machine round parts (~20-50 mm OD) that DON'T have hole in the middle. I do it by gluing thin plate stock to the plate and then turning it this way. Very slow and sometimes unreliable process. I am thinking what would be better jig I can build for that? Milling it on a rotary table while moving and replacing clamps in process?
Just a quick comment: I love to see how you americans have national flags in almost everywhere. I wish peopleo in my country have such sense of patriotism.
The USA may have some top level issues at the moment, but I love this country and I'm proud to fly the flag.
Excellent job. Just demonstrates how much engineering and engineering skill is required for a simple part. Most people don't appreciate how much effort is involved.
20K worth of machinery for a .10 part.
I have used the sandwich method to make copper head gaskets before. It is a handy trick for doing precision work on hard to grip bits.
Awesome video. I’d have just made a die. I like watching your videos and perspectives. Wish I could have cut my teeth in a shop with more machinists like you
I'm always amazed at how something that should be theoretically simple (cutting a generic solid of rotation) is so complicated and multifaceted because of the complexities of reality. And I'm also always amazed every time I see one of you videos come up, because I think "wow, I haven't needed to do that yet, but damn I don't know how so I better check it out." Because obviously (in this case) once you've turned stuff you realize that thin parts are really tough to work with, just like you say at 0:30.
I've watched a few of your video's Joe and as a guy who is just starting to play with a lathe and knows VERY little I really enjoy your stuff. BUT, for guys at my level simple stuff like surface speed, use or non-use of lube and what type of lubes, style of cutter etc are things that would improve my learning it it's possible to throw them in. All in all THANKS for making the effort, it is appreciated.
Alex
I've used this trick quite a few times now, and I learned it right here years ago.
Thank you Joe, for so many tips that I get to use almost daily. And trust me, I remember where I learned every one of them.
Thanks. Pass it on.
Another great video! I learn something new with every one I watch. I was surprised at the use of an end mill to enlarge the hole. I don't recall ever seeing an end mill used that way before. Could you explain the reason for using an end mill? Are there other instances where you would use an end mill to enlarge a hole?
If you want the hole to be "round" then you would usually use and end mill or finish the hole with a reamer. Standard twist drills tend to drill triangular holes. Not a big deal if you have clearance between the average bolt etc, but when you need a close tolerance, you need a near perfect round hole.
WOW THANKS!! I'm an old guy with a beater old 10" SB, know "just enough" to make something fairly round, LOL. This was a GREAT tip and will probably give me more ideas.
I have machined thin, odd shaped parts in the past and my method was to machine the inside surfaces then fixture and fill the machined area with Cerrosafe bismuth alloy which, supports the part as a solid then machine the outside. Finally, I melt the Cerrosafe metal out from the inside of the part with fixture and now I have a part that looks like is was made from sheet when, in actuality it was machined from the solid. I had an occasion when I needed to replace a ruined grip safety for a 1900 Luger pistol. These were machined from solid steel but look like sheet steel parts. I used Cerrosafe and a fixture to machine the part's inside then back filled to make the part solid; machined the outside then melted the Cerrosafe out from the inside and now I had a grip safety part which fit the pistol and operated. Very nice work on your shims.
Is there a video for this method? I wanna watch it
I just happened across your channel a week or so ago. I have to say I'm impressed. You are a good at instructing and your videos are very informative. I work as a maintenance mechanic/welder/ machinist. I'm no where near a journeyman machinist, but I usually get done what we need. We have some electric motors that have automatic brakes and use a variety of thin spacers to maintain proper clearance. This and the boring video was very handy to watch. You have earned a subscriber and I look forward to binge watching more of your videos.
Great Demo, love it.
Its a good solution for parts with no, or small center holes.
Two flute for ali, 4 for steel..I would be interested in some elaboration...slotting, side milling plunging etc. Thank you for this interesting vid.
Me too.
I never use a 4 flute on aluminum as a rule. Its all about the size of the chip and how aggressive you cut. Slot, nibble, plunge climb etc... it doesn't matter. Aluminum is a much softer material and can be cut off quickly. With only 2 flutes, the chip has some place to go and the risk of it packing up is reduced. If you were to push a 4 flute and 2 flute through a piece of aluminum at the same high RPM aggressive rate, I'd be willing to bet the 4 flute packs up and breaks first.
Joe Pieczynski Thankmyounfor your help.
I've been using this method for nearly 35 years. Machined numerous 10 micron spacers!
It works well.
@@joepie221 It does brother. People think a person is talking rubbish when you tell them that you can cut material 5 micron in thickness on the lathe. Think outside the box.
Joe, I would love to see a video from you on the subject of mill tooling for dummies. I mean I've been studying for years (actual books, not just UA-cam) and I'm aware of the terms of various tools, but I just got my first mill set up this past week and I'm overwhelmed trying to recall everything I've read about types of tooling for different applications. Your comment about 2-flute vs 4-flute for aluminum and steel made me think of asking you to cover it. I have a dozen or so end mills that came with the mill, and most are absolutely new, but they are old enough that I can't find info about them online to know their proper application, like a 3-flute roughing end mill that looks mean and expensive (1" diameter, 2" cutting, 4" overall). I don't want to ruin my tools or workpieces through trial and error. What do you say? Worth making an overview video? :)
Best suggestion I can make to you is to never spend money for used end mills, 90% of the times they don't get much life left in them... It's more likely gonna produce heat and ruin your part as well as your day, ask me how I learned about this... lol
Interesting. I'm tackling 54mm ID spacers that are thin for my Telescope as spacers. Tricky. Like these with big hole. :-) can't wait for boring.
Its a solid technique.
Amazing stuff
Thanks for this Video Joe. I just watched it & your Hold & Bore out Thin Shims. Been trying to think of ways to do this for a while.
Glad it was helpful!
Super good technique. You add a lot of high quality education to the library of UA-cam machining video instruction out there (and I have watched a lot of it). What a wonderful resource for us and future machinists! Thanks.
Thank you Jim.
Joe... thanks for posting these incredibly educational videos. You, Adam, Stefan, Tony, both Toms, Robin, the Keith twins, Mr. Pete and many more UA-cam professors have advanced my skills and knowledge immeasurably. I watched this video when you first posted it and I'm glad it imprinted within the recesses of my mind.
Yesterday I discovered I need some very small diameter washers to salvage a project. The washers need an O.D of .658", an I.D. of .190" and thickness of .001", .002", .005" and .010". I don't know where I'd even begin to source them. I'm relieved to have remembered and revisited this video. I'm heading out to my shop right now to make the washers from my supply of shim stock. You've turned my dread and despair into excitement and elation!
Thanks again Professor Joe!
Michael (in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada)
Great comment, and thank you for your support. You have inspired me to post the video on how to bore those washers once thay are done. Its a great trick and worth watching. Stay tuned.
I would have expected some tearing of the shims. Excuse the lack of proper terminology but I assume you have a very small cutting radius, and angle the cutter so it engages towards the axis rather than flat or starting cutting from the outside?
Very good. Kicking the tool face so the tip engages before the full edge is the way to go. If your offset is too aggressive, or your cut is too big, the first pass chip will be a ring instead of just 4 corners coming off. I like a small radius for the finish pass as well. Good comment.
awesome easy to follow and very very helpful need shims for my diff but no longeravailable now I can finish project and possibly help others with same problem
Obstacles are opportunities. I've always said 'you can slow me down, but ya can't stop me'. I'll figure out a way around you. Good luck with the shims.
Nive job; the .001 i do with compass and scissors,of course ( i sometimes have to make rod bearings (i adapt from new ones...) for 1000cc motorcycles,for which there are only STD sizes; i have the journal cut to whatever dim. it cleans up round at,then "make" the bearings
edit: there is *a lot* that goes into that,you want to use/race the bike to the end of its life,as long as there is oil in it, now... lol : BEARING CRUSH is critical,and difficult to achieve,so,study the matter a lot,prior...
That was brilliant Joe! It seems like a lot of effort, but the results made it worthwhile.
Never would have thought that was possible! Thank you.
Spot on. I have a job that requires some custom spacers to control crankshaft end float. This video has been a great help. Thank you for sharing.
Glad it helped
I had an assignment to make some copper discs .020" thick and around 7" diameter with about a 4" hole in the middle. I mounted a larger aluminum plate on the lathe that I was going to cut against. A parting tool of course would snag on thin material (especially grabby ass copper) and it is a tricky thing at best to part anything going longitudinally as we usually find out. I used the tail stock to hold pressure against an oversized square of sheet copper like you used in this video to hold pressure against the face of the aluminum stock. Now this next part of my story is what was the game changer. I used a sharpened cutting wheel taken out of a large pipe cutter mounted with a should screw onto a piece of square stock that would fit into the tool holder. With that I was able to use the compound to gently drive the wheel into the copper stock backed up by the slowly turning aluminum plate with complete success. The inner circle was accomplished in the same manner as the second step. I've used this technique a number of times to cut thin and/or soft material on a lath instead of using a conventional tool bit.
Interesting. Sounds viable.
I've become spoiled to my wire EDM.. but this is how we used to make a lot of thin bearing plates for instruments. "Pressure turn" gets lots of strange looks from machinist and toolmakers these days.
Most guys wouldn't believe the work I've done pressure turning. Just stand to the side when you do it. Especially when turning 9 inch square 1/8" thick SS into a disc. The resulting corner remnants are interesting.
Joe, why don't you use 2 flute cutters on steel? I would really like to know as I normally do. Thanks for your great videos, good clarity and grasp of technical lingo.
In the beginning when you drilled the hole in the plates on the mill . Could you have just used the end mill , why did you drill a hole first ? Thanks for all the great information and showing us these skills that you have . I'm a big fan ,thanks again . 😊
It works! ! Thanks Amigo! I did some brass washers .010" thick with your method. I couldn't be happier. Thanks for sharing.
Glad to hear it.
Interesting and helpful. I could make some thin gaskets this way!
That was a crafty solution. Thank you, Joe!
I ab-so-lu-te-ly had no idea how that was done, other then putting them between pressure blocks of some sort. Thanks for another very informational video.
Very helpful video. thank you for putting this one up.
Glad it was helpful!
Fantastic video, but one question, why only use 4 flute for steel and 2 flute for aluminium/soft metals?
Usually softer material can be pushed harder and produce thicker chips. Those thicker chips need a place to roll into/out of during the cut. 2 flutes allows that because of the additional relief and 180 degrees between flutes. You may clog and break a 4 flute under the same conditions. I personally don't go higher than 3 flutes on softer materials unless I am in a jam. Rule of thumb...harder the material=more flutes=slower RPM
Love the videos! have picked up alot of cool tricks tricks in my bag because of these great videos. Thank you for taking the time to do this.
I appreciate you watching.
I'm reminded of something I saw about 55 years ago that made me laugh. I was just a kid at the time. My Dad needed some soft copper washers for a project so we took a ride to the hardware store in the small town we lived in at the time. We went inside and he found what he was looking for but he didn't buy them because they cost too much. They were $.06 each as I recall and the store owner himself commented that yes, they were a little dear. So we went back to the shop and my Father busied himself for a little while building some kind of jig and he got busy making his copper washers. They worked perfectly when he was finished and I thought my Dad was really neat and the smartest guy I knew. Oh, and the washers and the blanks he used to make them.........pennies.
Very cool. That's similar to a technique that woodworkers use when planing thin sheets of veneer. They clamp them tightly between two pieces of scrap wood and plane the stack flat and smooth. That process yields a superior seam when the sheets are glued to the final substrate.
Thank you real helpful information
Very nifty method Joe - sure gives a great finish.
I'm 72 retired and using a tiny Chinese lathe, the Clarke 300. but it keeps me out of trouble.
Yes, great idea. Thanks for sharing.
"that's not a bad trick" is an understatement. thx for this tip.
Pressure is the key. Good luck.
absolutely awesome, now I know how to make thin steel washers for pivot bolts on a air riffle / I love you videos and your upfront straight forward knowledge and the ability to show the details Thanks again you are enjoyable to watch !!
impressive! simple but efficient way of explaining things.
Thanks!
This was a great and very quick technique to get a lot of other wise difficult to make parts. I do however cringe every single time you use compressed air to blow metal chips around.
I used this technique to machine silicon steel 4" diameter with 3" hole, 17 mil laminations for an alternator for the military. First I cut squares from old transformer core & stacked them & turned the outsides by pressure turning, followed by deburring outside. Then I stacked them in a fixture held in 3-jaw chuck. Fixture was aluminum ring bolted to aluminum plate, the bolts providing the compression & lateral constraint centering. As the boring tool cut out the center of each lamination, it exploded out like the "throwing stars" you reference in another video on pressure turning. Silicon steel is nasty stuff! (Imagine machining sand mixed with stainless steel.) The resulting rings required deburring inside (despite being tightly stacked) & annealing afterword in furnace to restore magnetic properties. The advantage to bolting versus pinning is that the bolts can be tightened to accommodate different material thicknesses & fixture is reusable.
Normally, silicon steel shapes can be fabricated only by stamping.
Hi Joe,
Normally I would have used the screw method, but this pressure way is great and easier on the centers...
Cheers, Pierre
Hi Pierre. If this shim had a 4mm hole in the center, this way would be the only way. Larger holes and thicker material are well suited for the screw and cap. I do it both ways. Thanks for the comment.
Why don't you want a 4-flute endmill for this, and why do you never use a 2-flute endmill on steel?
I'm sensitive to the sound of compressed air anymore, too many years of doing it without hearing protection. Now, I cringe every time I see someone using an air nozzle without ear plugs. You've only got one set of ears and eyes... Great idea for the shims tho...
Many are. I try to mute the air blasts on my videos, but miss one once in a while.
"Perfect would be if I was eating lunch and UPS delivered them"......FUNNY CHIT. Superb info & video as always!
Nice, now if I can only remember it when I need to.
I always said the best engineers have the best memories and the most catalogs. Good luck.
Looking forward to your next boring video ;-)
Thats a good one.
Wow awesome job and thank you for sharing I find your videos very very interesting and instructional thank you so much for sharing
Man you rule! Amazing tips
I love it when someone says it can't be done. That just means its never been done. Step back.
Excellent Joe I would never of thought of making shims that way.
Well done! Thanks for the video! Very informative and excellently presented.
Ive been doing this for 35+ years and I always find new ideas that I can use in these videos.
Excellent.
One of the things that I learned long ago, was that if I teach you what I know, and you teach me what you know, we are all better off in the long run.
However, there are too many out there that are secretive of their knowledge because of fear: Fear of being replaced, fear of not being recognized as the most knowledgeable, etc. This is something that must be overcome if we are to succeed, not only in the trades, but in Life itself.
Great video. I enjoy watching you work and reminds me of myself in my work approach. I always learn something new from your videos. Thank you for sharing. 🏴
Thanks for tuning in.
Just found your channel, great stuff! I also watched your threading video, thanks again and I am officially subscribed.
Thanks and welcome.
Brilliant! I have done several variations on the theme, but you have taken it to an extreme! Brilliant!!! I.E thin washers!!
thanks for nice content , helpfull tricks and good moderation :)
greetings from berlin, germany
I swear my phone is reading mind...
I've been wondering how I can make some .005 washers for a project I'm working on and boom this pops up!
I havent even googled hiw to make them or anyhting...lol
Love your videos!
I've drilled shims between thicker plates. I never thought to use the tail stock to turn the outsides.
I've chucked up with pressure on wood all the time. never thought of using it on metal.Cheers.
Plexiglass on the table. Nice touch.
That machine is 11 years old and the table looks like new. I've done that to every mill I've ever been responsible for.
Awesome video brother 👍👍
I just need two that are 12 mm ID x 13.5 OD! Don't think this would work for those.
Sure it would.
You have an intellectual approach. Your machines don't sound like it is going to hell
Thanks.
Super,,, and something my small SB 9 can handle 👍👍
Interesting Joe, gr8 technique!!! Thank you for sharing.
As always, done, filmed and edited by a master.
Time 14:00. Why not put a thicker sacrificial part at the deepest, using it to pull the delicate pieces out later?
Time 14:25. Why didn't You that from the beginning? Forcing the discs off. Needs some force of course.
Yes, if someone else did the dirty work....
The thick end part is a good suggestion.
Joe, I enjoy every one of your videos, as I always learn something. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Thank you.
This was a good one Joe. I would have done threads, but clamping and pinning is better (no crumpling thin spacers) and quicker too. Cheers.
A threaded cap introduces the possibility of rolling over the very thin material. If anything, a screw that presses on a puck coming from behind would work.
just so elegant! Thanks!
Thanks for watching.
This was a great video, thanks for sharing. I am going to try this shortly, have to make a brass shim, 1.125 ID x 1.375 OD .012 thick. Im gonna give this a shot as I dont have a set of shim punch and dies.
I also have a video on boring them. Good luck.
Thanks, that was great.
Craig
Thank you. Its a good trick.
There's no reason you can't use a 2 flute mill on steel. It clears chips better than a 4 flute mill. Especially useful if you are hogging a slot to the full width. A 4 flute can cut oversize in that situation because the metal piles up.
Hogging and 2 flute end mills should never be in the same sentence.
Using the tails tock to apply pressure-- not a good way to go. Too easy to have things slip, especially with many home lathes. Better to use a bolt through the center. Just my opinion.
I've used the tail stock for pressure on all five of my lathes, four of which were "home shop" quality. Nothing slips if you keep your machine in tune.
I keep finding these gems as I view your older videos. I could have used this technique when I was making a shim for my old South Bend lathe. Thank you very much!
Hi John. Thanks for checking in. Be sure to watch the video where I re-bore these.
Just having a lazy Sunday poking around the Tube and found this. Tin foil turning, What a concept, LOL. In all my years in a job shop type atmosphere I never came across a situation where I needed to pressure turn. I almost want to say bye, bye to retirement. I may go borrow a buddies lathe just to give this a go. Tin foil eh, , , hmmm. Thanks Joe!
Never know when you will be called on to wrap oreo cookies and need round tin foil. :)
@@joepie221 LOL, Doughnuts too eh.
Good one Joe, definitely learned something on this one.
This is a good technique to have in your arsenal. Thanks for watching.
One further comment, There, Joe: your audio for your intro/outro in the shop is way down on the machining audio; otherwise excellent video - most useful
I'm dialing in an external mic at the moment to try to improve that. I appreciate the feedback.
Great video with very useful information thank you
Joe these may be old videos but for me there still relevant and am trying to store a lot of info into the thing i call a brain it does work some of the time cheers and thanks again
Thanks for watching
That was some good information, that I will put to use, may have needed to do that in the past
Aluminum foil? DAMN!
It was the thinnest stuff I could find. I think I made my point.