As an old school Cyberpunk TTRPG player there's some data you are missing. In tht 2020 and 2045 guidebooks there is a local run religious mission in Night City that a former Solo mercenary turned priest set up as a sanctuary and soup kitchen for the homeless and downtrodden funds by donations.The area even has armed devotees led by the Father protect it. It is long gone by 2077 though.
There is also a gang called the Inquisitiors in both eras that do not per se claim religious beliefs but view cyberware as a threat to the "soul" and seek to remove it from victims regardless of whether the victim survives. Their name and their stated motivation suggest they are a religious extremist group.
Re: the Inquisitors, yeah I almost talked about them and Buddhism in 2077 but ended up scrapping it bc it wasn't exactly relevant to the theodicy issue, but there's a lot of interesting stuff I wish I could've touched on. Thanks for the insight!
@@skyloftgames It's been years and I don't recall a lot about it but the Father came across as a man of violence who found God and is running the show himself independent of any organized religious group. My guess is that the Father was raised Catholic in his youth before the Church more or less fell apart as an organization and by force of will he performed a one man revival of his childhood faith. His selfless service to the downtrodden certainly more closely follows the teaching of Jesus than many manifestations of Christianity in that or this world. How many of his followers truly believed in God or simply in the Father's good works is debatable but the Father might be responsible for any residue of Christan belief left in Night City in the eras past his own death.
@@skyloftgames You're welcome. Another thing you might consider is how closely Saburo Arasaka meets the definition of the demiurge in Gnostic myth. A false god wrongly claiming rulership over an imperfect world they made in defiance or denial of any moral power set above them. The Relic is even an attempt to emulate a god-like state but as AI Alt and Johnny will admit they are just pale copies of their original selves and not a genuine continuation of the same being. This imperfect emulation of paradise also includes Night City, a city of vice and illusion. A false paradise that ultimately corrupts and destroys those within it and keeps them held in mental bondage that saps their true potential to feed the demiurge and his Corpo archons. It's no wonder the most popular ending in the game is the Star ending where V rejects the illusion and wanders into the wilderness with a true family by their side. Better to be virtuous in a wasteland than comfortable in a hell.
The afterlife is real, and it is owned by Arasaka. That quote from the news broadcast in the Arasaka ending is startlingly accurate: "today, technology has fulfilled the promise left empty by religion."
Regarding the Warsaw Catholics, in the real world there’s an element of Polish nationalism that sees Poland as a Christ among nations, having suffered from the 18th century partitions and later suffering under Nazism and communism in the 20th century.
I think in a world like Cypberpunk, people would descend into philosophies that focus on how to die, but that discourage them from killing themselves (because civilization would eventually fade away in a dark age that gets regressively deeper over time). This would probably be closer to Augustinian, maybe with some modifications to confront any remnant philosophies that are still lingering from decades gone by, which die as a result of dissatisfaction with modernity (the rich might still hold onto old philosophies, but presumably many rich are corrupt). Peikoff said that it takes about a century before a new philosophy catches on though. Eg. Kant was 18th century, but he largely influenced the 20th century. Nietzsche is from the 19th century, and is influencing the 21st century (I think, though I haven't really studied much into Nietzsche). Therefore, I think that if anything, people would be more religious. They would probably regress into older philosophies on the belief that modern philosophy has failed them. They may pick philosophies that convince themselves that reality doesn't matter, so as to justify feeling good about escaping reality - so likely, some derivative of Plato such as Epicurus or Augustine. In any case, loss of faith is actually a luxury. I think it arises from a combination of boredom and misery, if nothing else. If someone has to face pain and work hard, and isn't just escaping, they're more likely to turn to religion in order to face the pain, rather than be given the opportunity to escape it. If people are likely to die, they're likely to think about the after life as well. They're likely to want to assume that "reality isn't real". This would lead to the rise of various cults. I don't think the world would end up as capitalistic as depicted; maybe among the middle and upper classes, but for the poor, the world is entirely different. The poor who lose faith in material gain, would turn to religion instead, and you'd have a lot of cults who simply reject money and base social worth on other things, as an alternative means to power in society. Societies are usually formed around using society to gain power via some means, whether its earning money, ability to do kung fu, sing, swim, do bicycle tricks, etc. The middle and upper classes have conquered how to make money and then they pulled the ladder up, so it's likely that many poor will construct other systems that validate other means of power within their own tribes (so to speak), and of which will be a means to gain influence among them; and this is because these poor societies get "atomized" or are unable to exist, without creating a different mini-society from the larger macro-society of the upper and middle class corporations. The other thing is that the center cannot hold. The powerful within the macro society eventually get so corrupt, that it works its way to the top and then the house of cards collapses. After all, corruption enables stupidity, not merit, because the meritorious overthrow the corrupt, when they let too many of them in. Or maybe an incorruptible AI just becomes the world controller, thus locking "the system" into place? It may be fun to think of a permanent dystopia, but the technology would have to get awfully out-of-this-world (ie. beyond cyberpunk), to escape the cyclical nature of human history, imo. The cycle being "good times create weak men, who create hard times, which create strong men, who create good times". Civilizations often collapse during the hard times, though it can take many decades or even centuries, within which the people of a society suffer through the decline. 13:30 - That sort of positivity is what lead to the world wars, btw.
I think a lot of what you say here is most likely true. It is really hard to imagine a faithless world, though I suppose that's why Night City has captivated me so much and I bothered to make this video. I wish I had more to say right now but your comment was very interesting to read!
Very cool vid. When playing this game I don't think I ever deeply questioned the place of religion/god in a world like this, so it was very interesting and fulfilling to get fed the lore and also some interesting analysis. All those little lore bits are very interesting and relevant details, and I respect the amount of time you must have spent researching those bits. Obviously it is also v interesting to see how this relates to modern society and where we are along that chain or if it applies at all. I'll probs think on that for a while. Yummy vid glad I watched makes me want to visit Night City again Also video note music at 5:54 and 14:52 is way too fucking loud made me shart mine pantaloons w vid
"a place of man-made gods" Yep, thats earth. Either a god has the power to do good things, but does nothing, or doesnt have the power to do anything. Either way, doesnt deserve to be called a god.
you see, i hold a separate opinion as i would describe myself as quite religious, though not in a typical way. not all deities, especially through older "Pagan" faiths, are entirely morally good or evil, rather beings with their own motivations and emotions, as fallible as man but with far more power than they truly deserve. rather, belief and worship is transactional, offerings and rituals to please the egos of the ignorant gods and bring upon us their gifts. despite them being morally dubious and self serving, it still does not refute their divinity. my gods may ignore or even bring ill fortune upon me as they see fit, and as i believe, but that doesn't remove their godhood, rather it makes them more like me, more like all of us.
Nice. More than Warsaw Catholicism and the "official" status of Santa Muerte in the Valentinos, no one quest speaks to the impulse you speak of as much as Sinnerman. It's why Redditors scream like holy water was tossed on them every time the quest comes up. For every action, there is a reaction. PS: If you want to get your view count up with more Cyberpunk videos, talk to Thane Bishop. He might be interested.
I forget who says it, but all dystopian fiction is a critique of the times it was written in rather than a prediction of the future. Like how 1984 is not a prediction of what life would be like in that year, but rather its a critique of the nationalism, censorship, and totalitarianism that the post WW2 world was fraught with. A hypothetical "what if?" and not a "will be." I find it fascinating to think about what Cyberpunk 2077 has to say about our current world. Is the world of Night City the natural conclusion of 21st century man cranking all our worst vices to 11? What is the greatest sin of mankind that creates the world of Night City? Is it the culture of overconsumption with no reverence for the world it consumes? Is it the abandonment of God as the solution to the evil of man? Could it be mankind played too fast and loose with the creation of AI and the deification of technology? What I love about CDPR's storytelling is that it doesn't answer any of these questions. It simply presents the world of Night City and lets us compare it to our world on our own terms. It's a great game to play; but when we look beyond the pretty graphics and the thrills of digital violence we begin to ask questions.
Jk yeah it's all fascinating stuff, and I'm working on an essay about exactly that. It's terrifying because I see current society in Night City. Nothing about NC is all that foreign to 2024 USA, it's just more extreme
Honestly I think it's very likely. Doomerism breeds escapism, not proactivity or progression, and I think directly leads to fatalism. When you think everything has gone to shit AND that not only is every power against you but you have no power yourself, the only options are escapism or destruction, and most people will choose escapism. For all that people may say they want to burn the systems down, ACTUALLY burning them down is both really difficult and scary, and is also likely to leave vacuums which are most easily filled by those with existing power to leverage.
Good question tbh. I know the in game news or one of the loading screens talks about the mines still being active in 2077, but it's possible enough have been cleared out for arasaka to travel the relatively straightforward section of the pacific Ocean between Japan and Cali? Or maybe arasaka is just blasting mines along the way, which would be unviable for non military corps?
The existence of evil is ultimately what pulled me away from traditional notions of God. The explanations--be it "free will" or "God wants to help but can't" or "We must be sinners"--don't explain why the Holocaust was permitted to occur. How could a kind Father God permit such suffering among His children? I still have a vague belief in an afterlife (not Afterlife the club--though I'd totally go there!) and in there being more to life than what our senses tell us. But a benevolent God seems very, very tenuous to me. Frankly, the thought that there is an all-powerful Deity who toys with us by sometimes interfering, sometimes not--sometimes permitting great suffering, sometimes not--is a terrifying one. I think this is partly why so many are moving away from that.
Suffering is how we can appreciate the life we have. Religion is most common with people of struggling predicaments and atheism is most common in people who are successful and prideful. If everyone was happy + great and evil didn't exist, then nothing would matter and we'd all be the successful and prideful.
@VladfishTheMagnificent the purpose they serve to the world. How well do we truly understand how great we have it if we could have just died so early? My grandma lost 2 of her kids in child birth but had 2 others successfully. The greatfulness she feels to have those 2 are immaculate despite the troubles with the others. Greatfulness is the answer to trouble and what keeps our egos and pride in check from not loving the life we have. My philosophy is that if everything was good, then nothing would be. In the same way we have extreme happiness, we have extreme badness to counteract the scale. I do understand your point though and it's a very thoughtful one that though I have an answer for, I think about often.
this is exactly the kind of thing i was thinking about the entire time i played cyberpunk everything will go to hell in a society that puts anything before god or worse outright abandons it entirely
exactly, this is why i love cyberpunk so much, it's a mirror that shows us what can go wrong if we continue treading the path the world is on. It's a genius masterpiece.
I've got a script in the works about why The Cyberpunk Genre is so scary because it's so easy to see how our society could become like that. I love that its both hi-sci-fi but also deeply grounded in reality
I've never agreed with an interpretation of god more than 'I reject harmony if this is the price to pay'. Maybe harmony, heaven, all that is just a hive mind we all link into. Maybe gods plan isn't really a plan, but the inevitability of our technology advancing to that point. The Borg; resistance is futile, and immoral. It's a brighter potential future than cyberpunk's corporate dystopia
As a Christian when I look at the world of cyberpunk I see a world post rapture a world where every last righteous soul has already been reclaimed by god and a world where the inhabitants have been given up to their worldly desires until eventually they destroy themselves.
Why are you always asking God why?? It's actually fairly simple people hate the truth nobody wants to know the truth they would rather have somebody lie to them then to know the truth if the answer that they got from him was that you can't have free will if you're Born to Be a slave to him if that makes sense you don't Force a dog to love you? You let the dog choose to love you or not you just try to guide it to the choice of loving you. Same thing goes with parenting in loving your kid if you love your dog can you have to give it a certain Extant of freedom otherwise you're almost guaranteed for failure granted most people chose to hate him but that's just it you chose to hate him because it was your choice not because you were forced to but because you wanted to because that's how you felt
"NC is full of man made gods".... so, nothing changed? All gods are man made, every religion is. They are all true though, for those who belive it. All church leaders, are same as corporate leaders. Power comes frome people belive in them, theyr symbol and money, that people bring to them. Corporations are church reborn
I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse to project intellectual superiority. I dont believe in God either, but my line about man made gods was very literally about artificiality being worshiped. You can make whatever claims you want about the authenticity of the divine, but the position held by believers would be that the divine is natural or supernatural, not fashioned by man.
@skyloftgames I agree with you that the position of the believer would be that divine is supernatural or natural, not fashioned by men. Of course, a believer would think that, thats what makes them a believer. This is the concept of believe, this is the mechanism of how sects, religions are created or born naturally out of people experiencing something they can't explain, which also happens. My point is there is a system to religion of any kind, and if you strip it to the basics, they all have the same principle of control over the human mind. They are the same because they control the same species. We have certain biases and exploits in our psychology that are well known by now, corporations and religions pick and choose the once that fit them better, as they don't use all at once, and package them in packages that suit theyr created image. This is not about intelligence, I am not against people believing, same way I am not against people smoking or drinking alcohol, or eating too much ice cream, as sometimes to keep going in a very difficult life situation, you need some sort of lie to belive, to keep going. So even thought all of this things can be realiably proven unhealthy and bad for the person in the monent, I am not against it, as it is better to suffer consequences of doing this things but still live for another decade or 4, than just give up and end yourself as life is too hard to handle.I don't think it's healthy for us as a society to have takes about religion and God's being real, as it then dictates decisions and can be used by those in power to manipulate people in to doing terrible things. The proof of that is history. We have to learn frome the past, not ignor it, because the idea that there is a loving god is so seductive.
@skyloftgames what I would like to make more clear. Belive in God's is manfashioned, there is no proof of any sorts for any god to ever exist or communicate his principles in any way to humans. Clearly, religion is a very useful tool to control large groups of people in all ages before internet, and new ways are developed right now and hinted at in cyberpunk 2077. It doesn't matter what believers belive, the system of belive is man created and used to achieve goals of theyr own. This is simply the reality of our world.
I wish there was a bit more heavy Pagan representation in Cyberpunk, as with the death of the concept of a single benevolent god, a return to the plethora of morally dubious ones could be an eventuality, like in our world, many neo-pagan movements have sparked. I myself follow one of these, my gods, they aren't good, but they're not evil, they're people like us, with motives and emotions just as fallible as us mortals. with the world of Cyberpunk seeing only man, the faiths to gods that are like man could grow and flourish in the ashes of monotheism and benevolence. or to be followed is the one true goddess of Cyberpunk, Panam.
I think its intentional tbh, theres some vague paganistic stuff in the game, but the vibe I get is that it is something that will come back into fashion not too far in the future
How dare the citizens of NC question God when Panam exists
Fair point
Counter point. Why did you download Panam female romance if God real?
I didn't?
She's blessed in all the right places
@@franciscoaguirre96 Looks like someones been ousted
As an old school Cyberpunk TTRPG player there's some data you are missing. In tht 2020 and 2045 guidebooks there is a local run religious mission in Night City that a former Solo mercenary turned priest set up as a sanctuary and soup kitchen for the homeless and downtrodden funds by donations.The area even has armed devotees led by the Father protect it. It is long gone by 2077 though.
There is also a gang called the Inquisitiors in both eras that do not per se claim religious beliefs but view cyberware as a threat to the "soul" and seek to remove it from victims regardless of whether the victim survives. Their name and their stated motivation suggest they are a religious extremist group.
Oh interesting! Yeah didn't come across that. Did the mission worship a benevolent God?
Re: the Inquisitors, yeah I almost talked about them and Buddhism in 2077 but ended up scrapping it bc it wasn't exactly relevant to the theodicy issue, but there's a lot of interesting stuff I wish I could've touched on. Thanks for the insight!
@@skyloftgames It's been years and I don't recall a lot about it but the Father came across as a man of violence who found God and is running the show himself independent of any organized religious group. My guess is that the Father was raised Catholic in his youth before the Church more or less fell apart as an organization and by force of will he performed a one man revival of his childhood faith. His selfless service to the downtrodden certainly more closely follows the teaching of Jesus than many manifestations of Christianity in that or this world. How many of his followers truly believed in God or simply in the Father's good works is debatable but the Father might be responsible for any residue of Christan belief left in Night City in the eras past his own death.
@@skyloftgames You're welcome. Another thing you might consider is how closely Saburo Arasaka meets the definition of the demiurge in Gnostic myth. A false god wrongly claiming rulership over an imperfect world they made in defiance or denial of any moral power set above them. The Relic is even an attempt to emulate a god-like state but as AI Alt and Johnny will admit they are just pale copies of their original selves and not a genuine continuation of the same being. This imperfect emulation of paradise also includes Night City, a city of vice and illusion. A false paradise that ultimately corrupts and destroys those within it and keeps them held in mental bondage that saps their true potential to feed the demiurge and his Corpo archons. It's no wonder the most popular ending in the game is the Star ending where V rejects the illusion and wanders into the wilderness with a true family by their side. Better to be virtuous in a wasteland than comfortable in a hell.
"Dead are all gods. Now we want the higher man to live." - Friedrich Nietzsche
That is why NC people are turning themselves into cyborgs.
The afterlife is real, and it is owned by Arasaka. That quote from the news broadcast in the Arasaka ending is startlingly accurate: "today, technology has fulfilled the promise left empty by religion."
Regarding the Warsaw Catholics, in the real world there’s an element of Polish nationalism that sees Poland as a Christ among nations, having suffered from the 18th century partitions and later suffering under Nazism and communism in the 20th century.
Interesting!
You deserve more recognition, really well made video.
Much appreciated!
Was half awake when the God voice kicked in. Thought my sleep paralysis demon finally found his voice.
Just gotta make sure people are paying attention yknow
@@skyloftgames sounded just as menacing and detached as that God should, imo
Lol thanks!
4:48-5:03 you hit 5 out of 30 shots my balls ache so badly
Sorry I was distracted bc your mom was giving me crazy head
@@skyloftgamesYeah she's quite good at that. Giving head. What are we talking about again?
💀@@skyloftgames
@@skyloftgames *Wow,* what do you say after that one? Brutal. Savage. *Wrecked.* ABSOLUTELY taken down.
Man you are so underrated. Who you get the recogniton you deserve.
Much appreciated! Glad you enjoyed it :)
I think in a world like Cypberpunk, people would descend into philosophies that focus on how to die, but that discourage them from killing themselves (because civilization would eventually fade away in a dark age that gets regressively deeper over time). This would probably be closer to Augustinian, maybe with some modifications to confront any remnant philosophies that are still lingering from decades gone by, which die as a result of dissatisfaction with modernity (the rich might still hold onto old philosophies, but presumably many rich are corrupt). Peikoff said that it takes about a century before a new philosophy catches on though. Eg. Kant was 18th century, but he largely influenced the 20th century. Nietzsche is from the 19th century, and is influencing the 21st century (I think, though I haven't really studied much into Nietzsche). Therefore, I think that if anything, people would be more religious. They would probably regress into older philosophies on the belief that modern philosophy has failed them. They may pick philosophies that convince themselves that reality doesn't matter, so as to justify feeling good about escaping reality - so likely, some derivative of Plato such as Epicurus or Augustine.
In any case, loss of faith is actually a luxury. I think it arises from a combination of boredom and misery, if nothing else. If someone has to face pain and work hard, and isn't just escaping, they're more likely to turn to religion in order to face the pain, rather than be given the opportunity to escape it. If people are likely to die, they're likely to think about the after life as well. They're likely to want to assume that "reality isn't real". This would lead to the rise of various cults. I don't think the world would end up as capitalistic as depicted; maybe among the middle and upper classes, but for the poor, the world is entirely different. The poor who lose faith in material gain, would turn to religion instead, and you'd have a lot of cults who simply reject money and base social worth on other things, as an alternative means to power in society. Societies are usually formed around using society to gain power via some means, whether its earning money, ability to do kung fu, sing, swim, do bicycle tricks, etc. The middle and upper classes have conquered how to make money and then they pulled the ladder up, so it's likely that many poor will construct other systems that validate other means of power within their own tribes (so to speak), and of which will be a means to gain influence among them; and this is because these poor societies get "atomized" or are unable to exist, without creating a different mini-society from the larger macro-society of the upper and middle class corporations.
The other thing is that the center cannot hold. The powerful within the macro society eventually get so corrupt, that it works its way to the top and then the house of cards collapses. After all, corruption enables stupidity, not merit, because the meritorious overthrow the corrupt, when they let too many of them in. Or maybe an incorruptible AI just becomes the world controller, thus locking "the system" into place? It may be fun to think of a permanent dystopia, but the technology would have to get awfully out-of-this-world (ie. beyond cyberpunk), to escape the cyclical nature of human history, imo. The cycle being "good times create weak men, who create hard times, which create strong men, who create good times". Civilizations often collapse during the hard times, though it can take many decades or even centuries, within which the people of a society suffer through the decline.
13:30 - That sort of positivity is what lead to the world wars, btw.
I think a lot of what you say here is most likely true. It is really hard to imagine a faithless world, though I suppose that's why Night City has captivated me so much and I bothered to make this video. I wish I had more to say right now but your comment was very interesting to read!
Very cool vid. When playing this game I don't think I ever deeply questioned the place of religion/god in a world like this, so it was very interesting and fulfilling to get fed the lore and also some interesting analysis. All those little lore bits are very interesting and relevant details, and I respect the amount of time you must have spent researching those bits. Obviously it is also v interesting to see how this relates to modern society and where we are along that chain or if it applies at all. I'll probs think on that for a while. Yummy vid glad I watched makes me want to visit Night City again
Also video note music at 5:54 and 14:52 is way too fucking loud made me shart mine pantaloons
w vid
Sorry about your pantaloons babe if you mail them to me I can clean them.
Glad you enjoyed though!
5:54 Home Depot music goes hard
I hope this blows up! I'd love to see that video on the deification of ai.
We'll see if I actually get around to it, but I do have some other cyberpunk vids in the works
"a place of man-made gods"
Yep, thats earth.
Either a god has the power to do good things, but does nothing, or doesnt have the power to do anything. Either way, doesnt deserve to be called a god.
you see, i hold a separate opinion as i would describe myself as quite religious, though not in a typical way. not all deities, especially through older "Pagan" faiths, are entirely morally good or evil, rather beings with their own motivations and emotions, as fallible as man but with far more power than they truly deserve. rather, belief and worship is transactional, offerings and rituals to please the egos of the ignorant gods and bring upon us their gifts. despite them being morally dubious and self serving, it still does not refute their divinity.
my gods may ignore or even bring ill fortune upon me as they see fit, and as i believe, but that doesn't remove their godhood, rather it makes them more like me, more like all of us.
It's not about if we should avoid it or not but if we will adapt or not. Nice essay man.
Thanks, glad you liked it! And yeah maybe so
I was taken by suprise when I looked at your view count, you deserve more
Thanks!!! Glad you liked it
Nice. More than Warsaw Catholicism and the "official" status of Santa Muerte in the Valentinos, no one quest speaks to the impulse you speak of as much as Sinnerman. It's why Redditors scream like holy water was tossed on them every time the quest comes up. For every action, there is a reaction.
PS: If you want to get your view count up with more Cyberpunk videos, talk to Thane Bishop. He might be interested.
I actually just discovered his channel recently! I wouldn't know what to say to him though lol
Sounds like he might have a gig for ya choom@@skyloftgames
where is the radio host video pls i need it i love maxium mike too!
Maybe some day!
With an arsenal of mods and yootoob lore videos, I am your God.
Thinking about getting into modding for this game, what are some good ones my lord?
I forget who says it, but all dystopian fiction is a critique of the times it was written in rather than a prediction of the future. Like how 1984 is not a prediction of what life would be like in that year, but rather its a critique of the nationalism, censorship, and totalitarianism that the post WW2 world was fraught with. A hypothetical "what if?" and not a "will be."
I find it fascinating to think about what Cyberpunk 2077 has to say about our current world. Is the world of Night City the natural conclusion of 21st century man cranking all our worst vices to 11? What is the greatest sin of mankind that creates the world of Night City? Is it the culture of overconsumption with no reverence for the world it consumes? Is it the abandonment of God as the solution to the evil of man? Could it be mankind played too fast and loose with the creation of AI and the deification of technology?
What I love about CDPR's storytelling is that it doesn't answer any of these questions. It simply presents the world of Night City and lets us compare it to our world on our own terms. It's a great game to play; but when we look beyond the pretty graphics and the thrills of digital violence we begin to ask questions.
Not reading that essay
Jk yeah it's all fascinating stuff, and I'm working on an essay about exactly that. It's terrifying because I see current society in Night City. Nothing about NC is all that foreign to 2024 USA, it's just more extreme
cant wait to see it@@skyloftgames
Honestly I think it's very likely. Doomerism breeds escapism, not proactivity or progression, and I think directly leads to fatalism. When you think everything has gone to shit AND that not only is every power against you but you have no power yourself, the only options are escapism or destruction, and most people will choose escapism.
For all that people may say they want to burn the systems down, ACTUALLY burning them down is both really difficult and scary, and is also likely to leave vacuums which are most easily filled by those with existing power to leverage.
If the oceans are unusable how did Arasaka park an aircraft carrier off the coast of California?
Good question tbh. I know the in game news or one of the loading screens talks about the mines still being active in 2077, but it's possible enough have been cleared out for arasaka to travel the relatively straightforward section of the pacific Ocean between Japan and Cali? Or maybe arasaka is just blasting mines along the way, which would be unviable for non military corps?
The existence of evil is ultimately what pulled me away from traditional notions of God. The explanations--be it "free will" or "God wants to help but can't" or "We must be sinners"--don't explain why the Holocaust was permitted to occur. How could a kind Father God permit such suffering among His children? I still have a vague belief in an afterlife (not Afterlife the club--though I'd totally go there!) and in there being more to life than what our senses tell us. But a benevolent God seems very, very tenuous to me. Frankly, the thought that there is an all-powerful Deity who toys with us by sometimes interfering, sometimes not--sometimes permitting great suffering, sometimes not--is a terrifying one. I think this is partly why so many are moving away from that.
Maybe this "god" is in meditation. Aware and available not active?
Completely agree. There may very well be a god out there, but I don't think it can be one that is truly benevolent
Suffering is how we can appreciate the life we have. Religion is most common with people of struggling predicaments and atheism is most common in people who are successful and prideful. If everyone was happy + great and evil didn't exist, then nothing would matter and we'd all be the successful and prideful.
@@cooldinom Maybe--but how does this square with, say, children dying in horribly painful ways? How does their suffering do anyone any good?
@VladfishTheMagnificent the purpose they serve to the world. How well do we truly understand how great we have it if we could have just died so early? My grandma lost 2 of her kids in child birth but had 2 others successfully. The greatfulness she feels to have those 2 are immaculate despite the troubles with the others. Greatfulness is the answer to trouble and what keeps our egos and pride in check from not loving the life we have. My philosophy is that if everything was good, then nothing would be. In the same way we have extreme happiness, we have extreme badness to counteract the scale. I do understand your point though and it's a very thoughtful one that though I have an answer for, I think about often.
I’m streaming this video in a church is this anything?
I lie 👍
this is exactly the kind of thing i was thinking about the entire time i played cyberpunk
everything will go to hell in a society that puts anything before god or worse outright abandons it entirely
exactly, this is why i love cyberpunk so much, it's a mirror that shows us what can go wrong if we continue treading the path the world is on. It's a genius masterpiece.
I've got a script in the works about why The Cyberpunk Genre is so scary because it's so easy to see how our society could become like that. I love that its both hi-sci-fi but also deeply grounded in reality
It says a lot that for you that you think the problem is the lack of a god instead of the mega-corps
@@manuelcastineira4593it also says a lot that you think both those things have nothing to do with each other
@@cbcnetwork5901 ancient religions used to justifie slavery
commenting cause this vid rocks!
Thanks!
I've never agreed with an interpretation of god more than 'I reject harmony if this is the price to pay'.
Maybe harmony, heaven, all that is just a hive mind we all link into. Maybe gods plan isn't really a plan, but the inevitability of our technology advancing to that point.
The Borg; resistance is futile, and immoral.
It's a brighter potential future than cyberpunk's corporate dystopia
My favorite thing about that line is that it ultimately isn't Dostoyevsky's opinion, but he represents all arguments as strongly as possible
Dawg I'd be questioning my faith if i lived in NC
As a Christian when I look at the world of cyberpunk I see a world post rapture a world where every last righteous soul has already been reclaimed by god and a world where the inhabitants have been given up to their worldly desires until eventually they destroy themselves.
What of the children?
This was sublimely liberal arts.
SPOILERS!!! (As in you spoilo us with such wonderful content)
Oh my bad are you still on cyberpunk 1997?
What? No dude im on Cyberpunk 1776, still waiting to find out if the colonies are gonna leave Britain@@skyloftgames
Oh shit my bad. But yeah they do
Why are you always asking God why?? It's actually fairly simple people hate the truth nobody wants to know the truth they would rather have somebody lie to them then to know the truth if the answer that they got from him was that you can't have free will if you're Born to Be a slave to him if that makes sense you don't Force a dog to love you? You let the dog choose to love you or not you just try to guide it to the choice of loving you. Same thing goes with parenting in loving your kid if you love your dog can you have to give it a certain Extant of freedom otherwise you're almost guaranteed for failure granted most people chose to hate him but that's just it you chose to hate him because it was your choice not because you were forced to but because you wanted to because that's how you felt
"NC is full of man made gods".... so, nothing changed? All gods are man made, every religion is. They are all true though, for those who belive it. All church leaders, are same as corporate leaders. Power comes frome people belive in them, theyr symbol and money, that people bring to them. Corporations are church reborn
I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse to project intellectual superiority. I dont believe in God either, but my line about man made gods was very literally about artificiality being worshiped. You can make whatever claims you want about the authenticity of the divine, but the position held by believers would be that the divine is natural or supernatural, not fashioned by man.
@skyloftgames I agree with you that the position of the believer would be that divine is supernatural or natural, not fashioned by men. Of course, a believer would think that, thats what makes them a believer. This is the concept of believe, this is the mechanism of how sects, religions are created or born naturally out of people experiencing something they can't explain, which also happens. My point is there is a system to religion of any kind, and if you strip it to the basics, they all have the same principle of control over the human mind. They are the same because they control the same species. We have certain biases and exploits in our psychology that are well known by now, corporations and religions pick and choose the once that fit them better, as they don't use all at once, and package them in packages that suit theyr created image.
This is not about intelligence, I am not against people believing, same way I am not against people smoking or drinking alcohol, or eating too much ice cream, as sometimes to keep going in a very difficult life situation, you need some sort of lie to belive, to keep going. So even thought all of this things can be realiably proven unhealthy and bad for the person in the monent, I am not against it, as it is better to suffer consequences of doing this things but still live for another decade or 4, than just give up and end yourself as life is too hard to handle.I don't think it's healthy for us as a society to have takes about religion and God's being real, as it then dictates decisions and can be used by those in power to manipulate people in to doing terrible things. The proof of that is history. We have to learn frome the past, not ignor it, because the idea that there is a loving god is so seductive.
@skyloftgames what I would like to make more clear. Belive in God's is manfashioned, there is no proof of any sorts for any god to ever exist or communicate his principles in any way to humans. Clearly, religion is a very useful tool to control large groups of people in all ages before internet, and new ways are developed right now and hinted at in cyberpunk 2077. It doesn't matter what believers belive, the system of belive is man created and used to achieve goals of theyr own. This is simply the reality of our world.
First
How do you beat me to it every time 😔
He's better@@CaprisunSippinMonkey
I wish there was a bit more heavy Pagan representation in Cyberpunk, as with the death of the concept of a single benevolent god, a return to the plethora of morally dubious ones could be an eventuality, like in our world, many neo-pagan movements have sparked. I myself follow one of these, my gods, they aren't good, but they're not evil, they're people like us, with motives and emotions just as fallible as us mortals. with the world of Cyberpunk seeing only man, the faiths to gods that are like man could grow and flourish in the ashes of monotheism and benevolence.
or to be followed is the one true goddess of Cyberpunk, Panam.
I think its intentional tbh, theres some vague paganistic stuff in the game, but the vibe I get is that it is something that will come back into fashion not too far in the future