Wouldn’t that literally have the same effect as the „turn off display after x minutes“ In windows? I’m not 100% sure but both don’t actually turn the computer off so idk
@@manubra5853 it's mostly the same but I think if you set a screensaver then you'll instantly get an image response when you come back and move the mouse, whereas if the display is off you'll have to wait a second or two for it to power on again
RTings confirmed that they are adding the Dell Alienware AW3423DWF, the Samsung Odyssey OLED G8/G85SB S34BG85, and the LG 27GR95QE-B to the longevity test going forward. We should be able to get a better idea of if this is a problem after the first few updates.
@@novalechuck7498 why do you even bother coming into the comments with obviously fake bullshit? What the fuck do you have to gain from this lie? Where is this hate coming from? There's absolutely 0 chance you got burn inside a return window
If manufacturers provided 5 year burn-in warranty I would snap-buy one for my 50/50 gaming/productivity usage. Not gonna buy a $1k monitor just to see a permanent taskbar on my screen after 2 years.
I bought my Alienware QD OLED last September. I have approximately 1200 hours on it at this point with a mix of gaming and productivity. I have experienced 0 burn in and it seems to be performing exactly as the day I took it out of the box.
Good to hear. An other user wrote some months ago in another UA-cam comment section that he has the same exact monitor as you, but he experienced burn in as he used this monitor extensively for productivity. The warranty made sure of him being able to replace the monitor free of charge with a new one, which is good, but it's nevertheless a bit of a hazzle having to replace monitors because of burn-in. All the current OLED Gaming Monitors for PC, both WOLED and QD-OLED are at its first gen, so it can only get better from here. One year from now we can get more extensive user reports from OLED Gaming Monitors, something I look forward to.
I'm sure you can easily avoid burn-in simply by lowering the brightness. Especially if you use it for all-day productivity. At least that‘s what I do with my Alienware.
well i really do hope a 6 months old monitor doesn't how any problem yet, it would be a scam otherwise. When spending big money on a monitor people should expect at least 6-7 years with no issue whatsoever.
Phone OLED is really different from monitor OLED. Not only the pixel layout are completely different, the pixels are made to be close together. Samsung tried to make a notebook with an OLED screen using the AMOLED technology, it was awful. But it is significantly more resistant to burn-in, this is why it can maintain 800 nits no problem.
I like the OLED more on my iPhone 13 Pro as on the Corsair Xenon Flex, maybe its the glossy finish on the iPhone. But the Xenon is really good in anti-glare.
Phone amoled panels also use different organic substances for each of the RGB colours as well I believe, which is completely different to qd-oled and w-oled panels.
@@relsre I can't remember the model, but it had a green tent, the sub pixel made it worse than QD OLED for text, and the pixels were so small that the density was off.
On burn in: Kind of a weird take being made here, given that they explained exactly why QDOLED was burning in faster (lack of a white subpixel). And image retention was simply worse across the board for QDOLED.
Rtings have actually now started an accelerated longevity test for the AW3423DWF and I think the equivalent Samsung and LG QD-OLED monitors - one to keep an eye on
I just wonder how these burn-in tests are accurate with normal gaming use. They keep the monitors running forever and never turn them off. Myself plays 2-3 hours and turns off the monitor and then on again.
@@ChristianJosephs If you sell OLED monitors with a disclaim that it is only for gaming and content consumption than this is a valide question. If not than you can assume that people will use oled to any other thing that make it burn-in.
Having just bought a Sony A95K I am quite worried about burn in because QD-OLED is capable of being much brighter in terms of nits compared to WOLEDs. However while I do game a lot I also tend to vary what I watch on screen and will try to limit on screen static HUD’s etc. I also found that the brightness is almost too high at times and honestly at min to 10 brightness out of 50 its actually more than bright enough. The picture is worth every penny and I’m blown away every time I watch a blu ray or Bravia core movie. Also to answer your question about why Sony vs LG burn in seemed to be better on LG is because Sony tvs only use the pixel refresher feature after 4 hours after the tv has been in standby, where as LG starts its pixel refresh almost instantly and this can run more cycles between uses.
It’s important to note that since LG’s oleds run the refresher more often, the display will degrade faster. My C1 after two years just doesn’t look as good and bright as it used to and I have to max the brightness out on hdr for acceptable bright highlights in a pitch black room
@@proggz39 I have slightly conflicting views on that tbh. While during the “rtings” burn in test the A95K was one of 2 tvs that developed much worse burn in than the others, it is almost definitely because the panel is a QD-OLED and reaches a much higher peak brightness (The burnin test is tested at full brightness). However I barely go above 10 brightness (out of 50) so I’m hoping this will reduce the possibility of burn in on what is a basically untested panel. I’ve heard certain people say that the standard Sony OLED is worse at burn in but your “pixel refresh more often” theory does make sense. On my TV there is a manual pixel refresh and it recommends you only do it once a year so it will avoid “straining your tv pixels”. Ultimately I think trying to vary my content as much as I can and not using full brightness when not needed is the best chance at avoiding any permanent burn in.
I've had my LG C1 for 3 years now. No burn in. I wouldn't worry about the risk of burn in a QD-OLED TV as long as you vary what you're watching. Rtings test is a torture test. It's not representative for any normal TV watching.
another great one from Tim that anyone considering oled pc monitor should watch personally I can't see myself using OLED for my monitor until I won't have to do all those burn-in prevention settings like taskbar auto-hide, super fast monitor sleep, no icons on desktop, ideally black background etc imo at this point all those settings have bigger negative impact on my experience than the positive impact of the OLED advantages over traditional LCD panel types
Entirely up to tastes and usecases. I don't work on my gaming rig so the only time I'm using it is to game. That removes the vast majority of the annoyances. The flip side is that I hate low contrast and even the slightest bit of blooming, so IPS panels are significantly worse for me than OLED.
For anyone relying on "OLED warranties" of however many years, you *really* want to be reading the small print of the warranty. It is extremely likely there'll be some parameters for monitor operation that they'll only consider the warranty valid, e.g. certain maximum number of hours, making sure the anti-burn-in features are all enabled all the time, having certain power saving features active all the time. It's incredibly unlikely to be just "we'll replace the monitor if there's any burn in after 3 years no matter what" so it's worth checking what the actual terms are.
From what I've read online, Dell seems to have a generally no questions asked warranty. Many people using it after long periods of time without hassle. The major thing to be aware of is that Dell is most likely not sending you a brand new monitor, they're probably going to send you a factory refurbished unit as a replacement.
Credit card companies provide additional coverage on top of manufacturer warranties. For a product this expensive I'd go appeal to them if denied. They also extend warranties by a year in some cases. But I don't really think we're at a point yet where anyone has had to try and get Visa or Amex to cover their Dell product in year 4. I'm taking the advice of just enjoying my monitor, but down the road I should probably look into all the technicalities of these arrangements.
@@Masterfighterx"electroluminescent" QD (or as they call it, NanoLED, despite it not containing LEDs) is also another display technology I'm keeping my eyes peeled for. I'm skeptical about the claims but it could offer similar benefits to MicroLED.
I just love my LG C2. it would take something special for me to want to get anything different for now. As a non competitive gamer 120hz is fine for what i need.
What sucks is driving 4K with the recent game releases without having a 4090 or 7900XTX. I'm considering using my C2 only for consoles and getting a 1440p monitor for PC.
@@colossusrageblack That‘s why i went for 3440x1440, but i went from 3090 Ti to 4090, because an 5 year old game wasn‘t so smooth. Now its really enjoyable. So for me even the 3090 Ti isn‘t made for higher as 2560x1440.
One of the biggest thing I noticed with my LG OLED TV and QD-OLED is to not actually fully powering off the TV or display. When you turn off the display and allow it to sit in sleep mode, it'll run its pixel refresher. I've had my CX for 2 years now, and QD-OLED for 3 months and have yet to manually run a refresher once, there is zero burn in and QD-OLED Panel Health is always green when I check despite using it for work everyday (mind you I set the display to auto off in 5 minutes, so when I step away for lunch, it lets the panel refresh).
Yeah, I really wanted a 32 to 38 inch panel but yeah I originally went with the C1 but also picked up the alienware UW, mostly because using a TV as a monitor has some annoyances. I use the alienware as the primary monitor and the LG with my PS5 and connected to the PC for watching videos/movies. 3 year burn in protection on the alienware makes me not really worry about it that much. My upgrade cycle for a monitor is typically 4 to 5 years so I wasn't too worried if it gets an issue at 4 years. I would really like to see a 4 or 5 year standard burn in warranty though.
Regarding the first question on pixel layout & display orientation... Even though you rotated the display & image is in vertical orientation, the panel will still have the circuit that is signalling from upper left to bottom right & even if you rotated display to vertical it still have same starting point & end point. So no matter what your orientation is the quality will be same.
The burn-in thing is a little overblown. I remember people similarly worried about burn-in on LCD panels back in the early 90s. 100 people worried about it, 1 person actually getting it...
Some great questions answered. For me, as I've commented before, OLED will not be relevant until they address burn-in and produce flat panels at 27" - 32". Why? Because I use my monitor for everything; there's no special monitor for only gaming and another for only productivity. There's no way I'll believe that a 32" flat panel OLED can not be produced right now, the manufacturers just won't put one in the market while they see they can still milk early adopters. Seems like every tech company is following the nVidia play book.
Sony Oled tv's aside from burn-in have also dead pixel issues, I own a 2019 Sony 55' Oled TV and I have now a lot of black dead pixels and burn-in , it has a LG WOLED pannel inside, also some Cx LG from that era also suffers from the same black dead pixels as Sony , at least on the stores where I have observed them. Cheers!
Got a Samsung S95 QDOled TV 55" from BestBuy, decided "You know what? I'm paying this much for the TV with new tech, let's break down and get that extended coverage". I just asked if their extra covered burn-in, which they checked with the manager about, and I made sure their manager wrote "Covers all burn-in" on the warranty receipt and I left on my merry way. It's so nice to have a QDOLED, coming off of a $300 Pioneer FireTV. The QDOLED only has 60hz refresh at 1080p and 30hz refresh at 4K, but it's so much better than anything I've had before.
@@levraichris3321 I have a HDMI 2.1 cable (as advertised on the box, purchased from Best Buy), Win 11. This 55-inch TV will do 60hz at 4K, or 120hz at 1080p, when using the NVidia Control Panel tool. Still don't care since it's a massive step up from what I had before.
Regarding thinner bezels on monitors, you'd also have to keep in mind that a lot of people also want to put webcams on their monitors, which is already an issue with some of the thin bezel designs. Take the Alienware QD-OLED monitors for example: I had to put my Logitech webcam in a very funky way just so that it's mounting bracket won't hang over the actual panel. If the bezels were any thinner up top, I'd probably not been able to mount it at all... Just something to keep in mind...
it's like complaining that a bugatti is too fast and u prefer ur old toyota over it bro, there is always compromises when u go for the best stuff, usually it's the price but some people find the most stupid of problems to complain about lol
You know, there is a feature in all modern Windows editions since Windows 7, called ClearType, which does exactly that, manage subpixel rendering. And actually, the 1st choice you're asked to make is between RGB and BGR layouts. So, text clarity should be equal between RGB and BRG layouts, if you configure ClearType correctly. Also, MS Edge now natively supports ClearType.
Weird comments on the burn-in issue. Rtings is testing multiple implementations of the QD-OLED panels, and the TVs do include support for all of those mitigation features. The main difference is that it's an accelerated test. They added QD-OLED monitors to the test now, which should help to answer some of the push backs. But I do not understand why he didn't use this as a warning sign for viewers. Hey, people can reproduce burn-ins on QD-OLEDs much more quicker than on other OLEDs using exactly the same methodology, there is something there. Running theory is that the lack of a white pixel makes bright areas of the screen be more taxing on QD-OLEDs than on other OLEDs and that makes sense to me. Shouldn't we all treat as a sign that we need to investigate this matter further?
I think people claiming OLED burn-in are LCD fanboys. I got used smartphone with OLED screen few months ago and no burn-in so far. At least no new burn-in ;)
@@e8root you cant compare phone and pc when using oled screen... How many hours you are watching stuff nonstop on your phone? On pc you can play for hours, you have taskbar that is constant.
@@e8root cope. Check it with screen test after some time and you'll see. I had many oled phones: Samsung, Oneplus, Poco and all of them had various degree of burn-in, athough, some are considerably worse than others
@@20puskinas1992 Reading skill at -9 my friend. And as for burn-in on phones vs PC/desktop its pretty much the same use case with perhaps less mitigations like pixel refresher -at least I never heard of such thing for phones. People spend hours on their phones and often have burn-in bottom function bar and top bar with the clock and icons. Keyboard is often burned in and even application people often use. My main phone LG V30 has name of "Paulina" burned in because previous user apparently talked with this girl a lot in messenger.
15:35 Completely disagree. Scalers do not use processors but specialized matrix multipliers and do them in parallel on pixels so gamut correction and color balance are separate. Manufacturers might lie about this if you ask them - often answer being provided by person which just invent answer to match reality. You can some times change white balance anyways if you go to service menu and some times using SoftMCCS. The reason why we do not have such feature is because manufacturers do not want to make monitor too good so you are more incentivized to buy professional monitor. Also there is this silly trend in computer monitors for locking settings in different modes. Nothing is stopping manufacturers exposing even more settings to user and if they worry about their sRGB mode they could for example give option to do sRGB gamut clamp in game mode. I myself expect for people like you (read: popular monitor reviewer) to call monitor manufacturers on their BS and not invent reasons why they are justified by clamping/limiting possibilities of their products. Otherwise trend of locking settings will continue - and it already lead to ridiculous issues like locked backlight brightness in sRGB mode or locking overdrive on ridiculously high setting in sRGB like sRGB needed overdrive artifacts. Let me repeat: call out manufacuters on their BS!
This is first time i disagree with HU real life experience. We have many many reddit posts about QD-Oled burnin problems even without HDR in windows after 3-4 months. its a big problem unelss you never watch youtube and only play games. But thats not realistic usage.
3 year warranty. I get why burn in is a problem that manufacturers don't want to really solve, just keep quiet enough, but this is another factor of ewaste we don't discuss enough. I like monitors that go as long as possible. 3 years is so far from bifl. There are too many other things that need replacement 2-5 years and if they all die at the same time *****. . The prices are too high to be replacing a household every 2-5 years. Imagine if instead that actually led to people without getting functional older stuff, better than whatever budget waste available or nothing. I know phones are different beasts, but at this point, I sometimes miss crts The way they discontinue models, even if there was a better monitor, by the time you know how good it is, it's too late to buy the best. This is true of many segments.
Worried that LG C2 42 will burn-in before my installment payments are done for it. Haha. Been using all the anti-burn-in features on the TV+ using Dark Room 2 for lesser brightness. So far no burn in after 6 months.
@@lilpain1997 Also the relation between brightness and burn-in is probably non-linear with eg. twice as bright leading to more burn-in than displaying the same thing for twice as long
Remember to leave your OLEDs in stand by mode folks, never unplug them when you turn them off or they will not do their mini pixel refreshes that help keep burn in away.
The sub-pixel thing is interesting, as I would have assumed Windows would take font hinting into account when choosing to rotate your display as it knows which direction you rotated in so surely not that hard to implement?
@@mostlyindica yep and Cleartype is a mess of different API, not constant between both the old NT windows and the Win8 modern UI (aka Metro). On MSWindows, it's wiser to disable it and use Mactype instead, which is an implementation of Freetype, the font renderer from Linux/Android/BSD/OSX used on even the weirdest Pentile and triangle subpixel layout screens.
@@alexatkin It's strange because for many years as ClearType patents were enforced, Linux for example was considerably uglier, so it is a very competitive feature. Why it remains stagnant and with some bugs...only M$ knows
Woled is half wattage of QDoled 47w to 100w. just for anecdotal evidence. Amazon reviewer after only 2 months using it for productivity got taskbar burn in
I used the Alienware QD-OLED for the last year with no issues. I recently replaced it with an LG C2 42" since I use my desktop primarily for gaming. OLED color and contrast cannot be beat. I will never go back to LED panels. But you have to be smart and plan ahead. Honestly, I grew up with CRTs so avoiding burn-in, turning off the display when not in use, screensavers... all of this is old news to me. But I get there's a whole generation that's never had to think about this stuff.
@@justitgstuff5284 Bigger display surface area. 16:9 ratio; I got irritated when games didn't properly support ultrawide. Also, better PS5 support for when I wanted to use it.
Why the downgrade? EDIT: Just saw your response. Console support is really the only reason to make that switch. But I heard the DWF variant does current gen consoles well. Just not 4K if it matters that much to you.
@@TypicalTomTV In day to day use, it doesn't feel like a downgrade. Based on my desk set up, the 34" felt small, I hated Alienware's bloatware software, and the 16:9 ratio is more compatible with games.
@@OptimumSlinky That makes sense. I went with the C2 over the AW for the same reasons. I could live with black bars when I use console, but losing HDMI 2.1 features like VRR would suck. My eyes are also bad so I figured the larger display area and resolution would help some.
There's an LG monitor that's designed to be vertical. It's something like a weird 3:4 aspect though. Also, phone screens and the one used on the Steam Deck are also designed to be vertical.
Also having a slightly thicker bezel at the bottle of the monitor helps ground/make a monitor look correct. This is at a unconscious level that people do not realize. ( if you doubt this statement, flip your monitor upside down and look at it. Then the top would look heavy and not quite right. )
Currently waiting for the LG 32 4k 240hz OLED monitor they're making. no way i can max it out but i dont think you need to upgrade ever again atleast not until it burns in or something. Hope it comes with a long warranty but probably not.
I have a launch day Samsung S95B that has been used for mostly gaming with the occasional movie. I don’t baby the thing and it has Zero burn in. Also there has been firmware updates since launch that Rtings might not have installed that an average consumer would have. My roommate has the Alienware QD-OLED monitor and uses it for 9 hours of normal Work 5 days a week, and the rest of the time it is running Final Fantasy 14 and a few other games. Again she doesn’t baby the thing and after nearly 6 months of heavy use, zero burn in. She frequently runs into the warnings telling her to perform the pixel refresh too. Rtings does a worst case scenario. It is also a single sample per model. It is not indicative of what 99% of people would face. I would say, if you are concerned about burn in, just get a good Mini-LED screen. They are so close to OLED with no risk of burn in.
I've had my QDOLED since about 6 months after the alienware AW3423DW released, and I've got no signs of burn in whatsoever, and I use it every single day, for gaming, web browsing, some light productivity.
I love the OLED burn in question: "which type of OLED will I spend a massive amount of money on and have to throw away first due to being ruined by completely normal and reasonable use?" lulz
There is always a risk when buying cutting edge (or maybe even bleeding edge?) tech. I bought the Samsung G8 and had to fix some issues but its running fine now. I use it for desktop some times but usually reduce brightness and use dark mode and turn it of when I leave the desk for longer (also got a black screensaver) Usually I use it for gaming and I just hope that my measures will avoid burn-in for a long time.
In my opinion and according to famous websites information the longevity of display depends on how/how long use it. One dude in rtings said that static images don't make sense a lot and screensavers will not prevent burn in. All depends on britghtness of the display, hours per day - Fatigue of the pixels. Exactly fatigue is causing the image retention, burn in. Maybe the static images Helps burn in faster cause one area (with logo for example) stay all the day in super bright pixels, so it's logic to cause some issues.I have C2 oled and use only for gaming and movies; windows taskbar, icons etc are hided and desktop is black screen to avoid pixel pressure. I used only a month after that bought neo g7 and neo g8 for testing, so I have not any burn in at this moment
In addition to what you've said, QD-OLED is also just a lot less mature than W-OLED, from my understanding. The monitors that are around use W-OLED, so there may have been changes to reduce burn-in (on the production level, in addition to stuff you named, like icon recognition), and these may also have been applied to TVs.
Yeah I don't see a reason screen savers would come back. The main reason we used screen savers instead of turning CRTs off was mainly because back then if you walked up to the computer, thought it was off, and hit the power button, you'd kill any programs running without any pop ups asking "are you sure you want to shutdown?" Even CRTs are still better to be off than running screen savers.
S95B has the same compensation cycles as the LG OLEDs. And it having burn in after 2 months of this stress test is highly concerning. The 2nd gen panels are said to be 2x more durable. The fact that Samsung Display even mention that, says to me that they know the first gen is more prone to burn in. The fact they quickly came out and via firmware toned down that 1500 nits peak down to 1050 nits. Says a lot. I have also heard from someone that calibrates TVs he's come across people with S95B with burn in. It's barely been out for a year. LG has had over a decade experience with their OLEDs so they are ahead in this. The test might be a little "hardcore" but that is only because they are 'accelerating' the results to simulate long term. So it's the amount of time any given image is on screen that determine burn in. It's cumulative over time. So even if the test does more hours in a day with CNN. If you do something regular with the TV that has banners or tickers or HUDs, over time that can start to manifest. It's not likely to come as easy as in the test. But chances are it can or will.
I would really like to get a 4k 32" OLED but it seems like that is farther off than I thought. I was expecting them to be just around the corner, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Might just have to take the plunge and go with the Dell 34DWF. My current main monitor is a 27" 16/9 1440p IPS with the same height as the DWF, so pixel density should be the same. I would like to have the higher pixel density of a 4k screen but I don't really want to wait another 2 years, and the pixel density of my current screen is just fine.
@@weisstal I already have a 55" CX as a television, and that thing is WAY to massive to serve as a computer monitor. Besides, I've already ordered the DWF. Should arrive in a few days.
I think that the subpixel issue for text on OLEDs is greatly exaggerated. I personally do not notice text fringing on my Alienware AW3423DWF although I am using better clear type fonts rather than Windows clear type but not sure how much difference that makes. I use my monitor for office work during the day and games in the evening.
>What aspect to performance actually matter For gaming, Black frame insertion is what actually matters! You can't avoid display blur and ghosting without a solid BFI mode! This is why your 1200$ oled monitor looks the same in motion as your old 10 y/o VA monitor at 60fps! Without BFI mode, blur and ghosting is 100% framerate dependent and no less amount of response times can fix this. This is critical to understand and yet most people simply don't get it because of content creators' obsession with response time numbers that are meaningless without first dealing with the modern LCD's sample and hold blur!
So not true. With the Alienware AW3423DW for example you get effectively zero ghosting, low overshoot and low cumulative deviation. There are OLEDs that top the charts with zero ghosting. No other monitor tech comes close. I'm sorry you can't see the difference between a 10 year old VA at 60 fps and a good monitor. That sounds horrible.
*burn-in Warranty concerns...* My ISSUE with this is that image retention can be "fixed" by appyling the setting that degrades the pixels (I guess it applies higher voltages for a while? Not sure the exact method). Anyway, you can AVOID BURN-IN at the expense of affecting the screen quality in other ways. Or perhaps I'm confused. But I'd assume people wouldn't suddenly have irreversible burn-in. They'd likely start getting Image Retention then "fix" it. Then later on have the same issue and again "fix" it thus further degrading the screen.
Not remotely a great price in my opinion, but LG has the 28MQ780-B for a vertical monitor if you’re concerned with the drawbacks mentioned turning a standard monitor vertical.
So i have Had an LG OLED TV for almost 3 years No, and its in use for multiple hours every day for playing Games and watching stuff. I dont notice any burn in what so ever, Runs perfectly fine Like on day 1
We do not want super thin bezels, they are ok as they are. We want just a non obtrusive "cheek" meaning lower bezel equal to sides and top. If this means somehow thicker monitors I would trade for that.
*LCD and OLED are converging on the SAME EXACT method...* (I've OVERSIMPLIFIED this quite a bit. Don't attack me...) For those who don't know, an LCD monitor basically has backlights that pass light through an LCD panel that filters out light. If we focus on just a RED subpixel then it's basically WHITE light going through a filter that passes ONLY a range of red light. On OLED a red sub-pixel was simply material that directly PRODUCED a range of red light... now, fast forward to now and "QD-OLED" is, again to oversimplify, an organic LED that produces WHITE light which is immediately ABSORBED by the coating of "quantum dust" on top of it. For RED the material absorbs white then emits RED light only... So pretty simple for QD-OLED... split the problem into TWO pieces using QD. Concentrate on PRODUCING the light in the most logical method in terms of engineering, efficiency etc. Then concentrate on the Quantum Dust coating optimization that absorbs and re-emits the light... Back to LCD. Because light LEAKS through the panel you want MORE backlights so you can turn some off. The more you have the smaller the ZONE is. If you move a CURSOR around a black screen, for example, you get a GLOW around it because the backlights for the ZONE it's presently in must be turned ON. The REST of the screen has the backlights off. So you see the cursor but also an undesirable GLOW around it... The SOLUTION is to have many, small backlight zones. If you imagine ONE BACKLIGHT LED per pixel on a QD-LCD display then what have we got? A white backlight, with a QD coating then... an LCD filter? But we wouldn't even need a filter if we have one backlight per pixel. This would be IDENTICAL then to an OLED panel. LED + QD coating. It takes TIME and MONEY to retool manufacturing plants so even if SUPERIOR panel technology exists it doesn't make financial sense to just throw money at the problem. But, long-story short is that we're converging on QD-OLED where the engineers will continue to concentrate on optimizing both the OLED material and QD material separately to reduce burn-in and cost... perhaps some phase-change technology will make it so ORGANIC LED's are no longer used but I think that LIGHT SOURCE + QD COATING is the only logical end solution for monitors. It's simply refinement after that. (I assume that "QD-LCD" works better because the LCD panel isn't designed to assume a range of WHITE light coming at it. So you can design the RED filter with the assumption that you only have a specific range of red light coming at it. Which, I assume, means less light leakage as well which can improve color AND reduce the maximum light leakage when any LED backlights are on vs the non-QD versions? I may be wrong but it seems logical.)
What’s suspect is that RTINGS didn’t do any pixel refresh on the QD-OLED to get rid of the burn in. They also didn’t mention whether they used the logo dimmer and pixel shifter 🤔
There's nothing suspect. The left the TVs at their default. LG's default includes more active refreshes than Sony's does. It's ok to just like Sony, without thinking any negative reporting on their products is "suspect".
I am appalled that commentary around burn in is focused on ongoing test results to see which LED panel brand will experience this built in obsolescence the fastest. If I bought a new car knowing that the windscreen would establish a burn in after only 3 years use would i buy that car? QLED and WLED panel manufacturers should not even be allowed to bring potentially defective panels to market. It is simply fraudulent conduct. Thanks for your update, most reviewers don't even mention burn in when comparing brands.
G'day Tim, I miss the good Screensavers, like Bad Dog & the Terminator Builder, but if I will be away for longer than a couple of minutes, even if I don't turn the PC off I do turn the Monitor off. I'd just like to say that first question by Piratejet21 was great, especially considering your recent OLED content explaining how the Pixel Layout affects Text Clarity in Windows & knowing that many streamers use a second monitor in Portrait for Chat. I do not use monitors for this situation but I like learning about usage outside of my my personal requirements.
OLED screensaver = solid black wallpaper, no icons, task bar hidden. Use a registry edit to hide the 1 px line still present on windows. Sleep naked on a concrete slab for even more minimalism.
I rund my pg42 with black background, auto hide taskbar and no desktop icons. I never fought I would enjoy a Black wallpaper but its sooo nice getting back to the screen and look at perfect blacks.
Burn-in: while exact burn in can't be determined - it depends on how it is used and implementation i think the base technology used may indicate what is a better choice. I would still be wary buying a OLED display that is used for PC work unless it has a long burn in warranty
Regarding the last question of bezel sizes - is crazy to me that we have phones which are the most abused pieces of tech that we keep in our pockets and throw around all day with super-slim bezels and all-glass construction, and then we have monitors which literally all have to do is mind their business on a desk without ever being moved or hassled having massive bezels. I think this is just one of those idiocies - like saying that we can't have high-res cameras in laptops due to room constraints - although smartphone manufacturers manage to fit 24MP+ cameras in tiny punch holes inside phones screens.
*"32" is just too small..."* I may sound like a jerk, so if so sorry, but... why not just MOVE a 27" closer to you on the desk? 32" diagonal is only 18% longer than 27". Thus, if you move it 18% CLOSER you get the same experience. My eyes are EXACTLY 27" (1:1) from my monitor (I just measured it). So you'd move the monitor roughly... FIVE INCHES forward to get the same experience as a 32".
TCL claims that the standard shadow mask manufacturing doesn't allow for apertures small enough for 32" 4k. They did demonstrate a 32" 144hz OLED at CES as a demo for their inkjet OLED technique, but expressed no intention of releasing a monitor with that panel any time soon. Might just be marketing speak to claim superiority over LG and Samsung but we haven't seen an increase in pixel density with OLED in quite some time (the 42 inch from last year is just a cut down 8k which existed for a while already). The 32" 4k OLED found in the Asus and LG monitors are JOLED panels which use inkjet as well. Some of the micro-OLED displays used in VR use shadow mask manufacturing so it could be possible, but maybe there are issues with scale. Hopefully this is resolved soon, since I want such a monitor too.
27inch 1440P is the sweet spot. 32inch will bring a low pixel density so be careful of what u ask for. With the people still afraid 😱 of burn 🔥 in, just buy the Best Buy warranty and forget about it.
@@johandeen6096 agreed. I went from a 24" 1080p monitor to 27" 1440p, then added a second 32" 1440p monitor. Now I've replaced them all with a 34" 3440x1440 monitor and loving it! I'll never go back to 16:9 after experiencing ultrawide.
I know many people (including myself) that use their phones for many hours a day, and I don't know of anyone that has had burn in on their phones. Static elements like the keyboard or notification bar just don't burn in for some reason, even though phone screens don't use any kind of pixel refresher that i know of. Why is burn in such a massive issue on monitors compared to phones and tvs, even when phones and tvs are used similarly?
If serious about a vertical experience, checkout the LG DualUp monitor. It’s meant to give stacked 1440p 16:9 in one display but I think it could work. Only 60hz I recall but it’s interesting
faster burning for qd-oled, but a lot brighter displays. i'm pretty sure that if you lower the brightness to the same level of wrgb oleds the burn in should be almost identical.
Can I nuance your answer about vertical monitors? You mention 4k monitors as being preferred, but it's actually the high pixel density at work. I use a Dell Ultrasharp 24" 4k monitor in a vertical format and it's awesome.
Thin bezels and making display more thin is already causing issues on larger displays when you try to handle them and might lead to panel bending. Zero bezel would make for very classy look but I would not mind getting monitor with older style with hick bezels and thick panel.
I bet that even lighting on LED displays would be easier as well if they didnt try to make bezels ever thinner. Feels like the super thing bezel (outside of multi-monitor niche) and screens are just marketing gimmicks. Same way how some smartphones are so thin its not even practical anymore. Id rather have a 3.5mm connector than 2mm less thickness for no reason.
A simple question. What is the best 27-inch monitor to play currently? Best graphic quality, response time, anti-reflective screen, colors, etc. The best of the best, please answer me if you can
The bezels on my monitor are already just a few mm. While it would be nice to see them shrink further, I wouldn't want to compromise anything to do it.
The point of the screensavers on CRT monitors was because they took forever to turn back on right? I know there was burn in but that's why we didn't just turn them off back then right?
Regarding screen savers, bear in mind you can have a screen saver that's a completely black screen. So the pixels are off.
Wouldn’t that literally have the same effect as the „turn off display after x minutes“ In windows?
I’m not 100% sure but both don’t actually turn the computer off so idk
@@manubra5853 it's mostly the same but I think if you set a screensaver then you'll instantly get an image response when you come back and move the mouse, whereas if the display is off you'll have to wait a second or two for it to power on again
Just turn off the Oled, whenever I turn off my Alienware it does the Pixel Refresh routine, so you are adding one extra maintenance routine
@@TheMetacre Turning off the monitor is a manual action, whereas a screen saver is automatic.
@yosharian turning off monitor is not manual action if you use "turn the monitor off after X minutes setting." Turning it on however...
RTings confirmed that they are adding the Dell Alienware AW3423DWF, the Samsung Odyssey OLED G8/G85SB S34BG85, and the LG 27GR95QE-B to the longevity test going forward. We should be able to get a better idea of if this is a problem after the first few updates.
i had several burn in with the oled g8 and the aw3423dw...glad that i got a refund....now i switched back to IPS panel
@@novalechuck7498 why do you even bother coming into the comments with obviously fake bullshit? What the fuck do you have to gain from this lie? Where is this hate coming from?
There's absolutely 0 chance you got burn inside a return window
If manufacturers provided 5 year burn-in warranty I would snap-buy one for my 50/50 gaming/productivity usage. Not gonna buy a $1k monitor just to see a permanent taskbar on my screen after 2 years.
Paranoid
I bought my Alienware QD OLED last September. I have approximately 1200 hours on it at this point with a mix of gaming and productivity. I have experienced 0 burn in and it seems to be performing exactly as the day I took it out of the box.
Good to hear. An other user wrote some months ago in another UA-cam comment section that he has the same exact monitor as you, but he experienced burn in as he used this monitor extensively for productivity. The warranty made sure of him being able to replace the monitor free of charge with a new one, which is good, but it's nevertheless a bit of a hazzle having to replace monitors because of burn-in.
All the current OLED Gaming Monitors for PC, both WOLED and QD-OLED are at its first gen, so it can only get better from here. One year from now we can get more extensive user reports from OLED Gaming Monitors, something I look forward to.
Same. I've use the same desktop pattern the whole time too. Nothing...
same here, mainly use it for productivity. I recently got the 1 hour PANEL refresh at 1,500 hours. Have owned the monitor for about 7 months
I'm sure you can easily avoid burn-in simply by lowering the brightness. Especially if you use it for all-day productivity.
At least that‘s what I do with my Alienware.
well i really do hope a 6 months old monitor doesn't how any problem yet, it would be a scam otherwise. When spending big money on a monitor people should expect at least 6-7 years with no issue whatsoever.
Rtings has included gaming oled monitors in testing. The qdoled variety.
So in a next episode we'll have a better image of their performance.
Yeah kinda surprised he didn't at least skim the video/article before replying lol??
and doesnt Sony and LG use different pannels? so Rtings will have a big impact i think.
@@FunkMonk1111 no it's the same panel. Sony TV's either use LG or Samsung panels
@TheAnimeRapper samsung, thank you. I new there was 2different panels,
I thort Sony used Samsung panels tho not LGs?
Phone OLED is really different from monitor OLED. Not only the pixel layout are completely different, the pixels are made to be close together. Samsung tried to make a notebook with an OLED screen using the AMOLED technology, it was awful. But it is significantly more resistant to burn-in, this is why it can maintain 800 nits no problem.
I like the OLED more on my iPhone 13 Pro as on the Corsair Xenon Flex, maybe its the glossy finish on the iPhone.
But the Xenon is really good in anti-glare.
Phone amoled panels also use different organic substances for each of the RGB colours as well I believe, which is completely different to qd-oled and w-oled panels.
huh, interesting. Just curious, what's the model of this Samsung AMOLED notebook, and how was it awful?
@@relsre I can't remember the model, but it had a green tent, the sub pixel made it worse than QD OLED for text, and the pixels were so small that the density was off.
Interesting, I'd always wondered why burn in wasn't a common issue for phones. Thanks for the explanation.
I really hope that Microsoft will update Windows 11 to support different subpixel layouts, it will be the perfect solution!
More like Windows 21
Better support for software colour profiles while they're at it too 🤔
Well, I guess they are too busy identifying features that people start to like and removing them.
It will never happen
Who even told you that microsoft can fix it? The only fix is to increase PPI, or up the scale to 125-150%
On burn in: Kind of a weird take being made here, given that they explained exactly why QDOLED was burning in faster (lack of a white subpixel). And image retention was simply worse across the board for QDOLED.
You guys are monsters, keep the high quality content coming! Thanks for all you do big guy
It's a 38 minute video it's only been 30 minutes after the upload
@@alostcat maybe he went to the Q&A he needed and called it a day
@@alostcat we got the comment patrol over here
Hope the video testing and comparing the LG 27GR95QE firmware update comes out soon!
Rtings have actually now started an accelerated longevity test for the AW3423DWF and I think the equivalent Samsung and LG QD-OLED monitors - one to keep an eye on
I just wonder how these burn-in tests are accurate with normal gaming use. They keep the monitors running forever and never turn them off. Myself plays 2-3 hours and turns off the monitor and then on again.
@@ChristianJosephs NO they turn them off several times a day.
@@mostlyindica good to know when I read about it in reddit it was written differently. Will check the whole report.
@@ChristianJosephs If you sell OLED monitors with a disclaim that it is only for gaming and content consumption than this is a valide question. If not than you can assume that people will use oled to any other thing that make it burn-in.
@El Cactuar English isn't my native language, thanks for the tips!
Having just bought a Sony A95K I am quite worried about burn in because QD-OLED is capable of being much brighter in terms of nits compared to WOLEDs. However while I do game a lot I also tend to vary what I watch on screen and will try to limit on screen static HUD’s etc. I also found that the brightness is almost too high at times and honestly at min to 10 brightness out of 50 its actually more than bright enough. The picture is worth every penny and I’m blown away every time I watch a blu ray or Bravia core movie. Also to answer your question about why Sony vs LG burn in seemed to be better on LG is because Sony tvs only use the pixel refresher feature after 4 hours after the tv has been in standby, where as LG starts its pixel refresh almost instantly and this can run more cycles between uses.
It’s important to note that since LG’s oleds run the refresher more often, the display will degrade faster. My C1 after two years just doesn’t look as good and bright as it used to and I have to max the brightness out on hdr for acceptable bright highlights in a pitch black room
@@proggz39 I have slightly conflicting views on that tbh. While during the “rtings” burn in test the A95K was one of 2 tvs that developed much worse burn in than the others, it is almost definitely because the panel is a QD-OLED and reaches a much higher peak brightness (The burnin test is tested at full brightness). However I barely go above 10 brightness (out of 50) so I’m hoping this will reduce the possibility of burn in on what is a basically untested panel. I’ve heard certain people say that the standard Sony OLED is worse at burn in but your “pixel refresh more often” theory does make sense. On my TV there is a manual pixel refresh and it recommends you only do it once a year so it will avoid “straining your tv pixels”. Ultimately I think trying to vary my content as much as I can and not using full brightness when not needed is the best chance at avoiding any permanent burn in.
I've had my LG C1 for 3 years now. No burn in. I wouldn't worry about the risk of burn in a QD-OLED TV as long as you vary what you're watching. Rtings test is a torture test. It's not representative for any normal TV watching.
Just don't watch static content or game excessively
Fact LG has do a pixel refresh every time you turn it off shows shit they are prone to burn in
another great one from Tim that anyone considering oled pc monitor should watch
personally I can't see myself using OLED for my monitor until I won't have to do all those burn-in prevention settings like taskbar auto-hide, super fast monitor sleep, no icons on desktop, ideally black background etc
imo at this point all those settings have bigger negative impact on my experience than the positive impact of the OLED advantages over traditional LCD panel types
Entirely up to tastes and usecases. I don't work on my gaming rig so the only time I'm using it is to game. That removes the vast majority of the annoyances. The flip side is that I hate low contrast and even the slightest bit of blooming, so IPS panels are significantly worse for me than OLED.
For anyone relying on "OLED warranties" of however many years, you *really* want to be reading the small print of the warranty. It is extremely likely there'll be some parameters for monitor operation that they'll only consider the warranty valid, e.g. certain maximum number of hours, making sure the anti-burn-in features are all enabled all the time, having certain power saving features active all the time. It's incredibly unlikely to be just "we'll replace the monitor if there's any burn in after 3 years no matter what" so it's worth checking what the actual terms are.
From what I've read online, Dell seems to have a generally no questions asked warranty. Many people using it after long periods of time without hassle. The major thing to be aware of is that Dell is most likely not sending you a brand new monitor, they're probably going to send you a factory refurbished unit as a replacement.
Credit card companies provide additional coverage on top of manufacturer warranties. For a product this expensive I'd go appeal to them if denied. They also extend warranties by a year in some cases. But I don't really think we're at a point yet where anyone has had to try and get Visa or Amex to cover their Dell product in year 4.
I'm taking the advice of just enjoying my monitor, but down the road I should probably look into all the technicalities of these arrangements.
My monitors are on 18~20 hours a day, so I guess I'll be waiting another decade for an IPS to OLED upgrade.
MicroLED is the way. Best of OLED without the cons, but that's sadly in the future..
@@Masterfighterx I'm still waiting for a mini led that supports all the features I want in monitor
@@Masterfighterx"electroluminescent" QD (or as they call it, NanoLED, despite it not containing LEDs) is also another display technology I'm keeping my eyes peeled for. I'm skeptical about the claims but it could offer similar benefits to MicroLED.
I just love my LG C2. it would take something special for me to want to get anything different for now. As a non competitive gamer 120hz is fine for what i need.
What sucks is driving 4K with the recent game releases without having a 4090 or 7900XTX. I'm considering using my C2 only for consoles and getting a 1440p monitor for PC.
@@colossusrageblack That‘s why i went for 3440x1440, but i went from 3090 Ti to 4090, because an 5 year old game wasn‘t so smooth. Now its really enjoyable. So for me even the 3090 Ti isn‘t made for higher as 2560x1440.
One of the biggest thing I noticed with my LG OLED TV and QD-OLED is to not actually fully powering off the TV or display. When you turn off the display and allow it to sit in sleep mode, it'll run its pixel refresher. I've had my CX for 2 years now, and QD-OLED for 3 months and have yet to manually run a refresher once, there is zero burn in and QD-OLED Panel Health is always green when I check despite using it for work everyday (mind you I set the display to auto off in 5 minutes, so when I step away for lunch, it lets the panel refresh).
Yeah, I really wanted a 32 to 38 inch panel but yeah I originally went with the C1 but also picked up the alienware UW, mostly because using a TV as a monitor has some annoyances. I use the alienware as the primary monitor and the LG with my PS5 and connected to the PC for watching videos/movies. 3 year burn in protection on the alienware makes me not really worry about it that much. My upgrade cycle for a monitor is typically 4 to 5 years so I wasn't too worried if it gets an issue at 4 years. I would really like to see a 4 or 5 year standard burn in warranty though.
Regarding the first question on pixel layout & display orientation... Even though you rotated the display & image is in vertical orientation, the panel will still have the circuit that is signalling from upper left to bottom right & even if you rotated display to vertical it still have same starting point & end point. So no matter what your orientation is the quality will be same.
This would be true of a typical LED display, OLEDs do not work like this
The burn-in thing is a little overblown. I remember people similarly worried about burn-in on LCD panels back in the early 90s. 100 people worried about it, 1 person actually getting it...
Bought my Alienware 2 days ago. 3 years Burn-in warranty is just amazing
i just got my alienware today and after watching this i feel i made a mistake with the burn in problem :/
Some great questions answered. For me, as I've commented before, OLED will not be relevant until they address burn-in and produce flat panels at 27" - 32". Why? Because I use my monitor for everything; there's no special monitor for only gaming and another for only productivity.
There's no way I'll believe that a 32" flat panel OLED can not be produced right now, the manufacturers just won't put one in the market while they see they can still milk early adopters. Seems like every tech company is following the nVidia play book.
Sony Oled tv's aside from burn-in have also dead pixel issues, I own a 2019 Sony 55' Oled TV and I have now a lot of black dead pixels and burn-in , it has a LG WOLED pannel inside, also some Cx LG from that era also suffers from the same black dead pixels as Sony , at least on the stores where I have observed them. Cheers!
Got a Samsung S95 QDOled TV 55" from BestBuy, decided "You know what? I'm paying this much for the TV with new tech, let's break down and get that extended coverage". I just asked if their extra covered burn-in, which they checked with the manager about, and I made sure their manager wrote "Covers all burn-in" on the warranty receipt and I left on my merry way.
It's so nice to have a QDOLED, coming off of a $300 Pioneer FireTV. The QDOLED only has 60hz refresh at 1080p and 30hz refresh at 4K, but it's so much better than anything I've had before.
What? It is 4K 120Hz and can be overclock to 4k 144Hz on PC. I own the display as well, what you said makes no sense
Are you using an HDMI cable from 10 years ago? Please get a 2.1 cable
@@levraichris3321 I have a HDMI 2.1 cable (as advertised on the box, purchased from Best Buy), Win 11.
This 55-inch TV will do 60hz at 4K, or 120hz at 1080p, when using the NVidia Control Panel tool.
Still don't care since it's a massive step up from what I had before.
Regarding thinner bezels on monitors, you'd also have to keep in mind that a lot of people also want to put webcams on their monitors, which is already an issue with some of the thin bezel designs. Take the Alienware QD-OLED monitors for example: I had to put my Logitech webcam in a very funky way just so that it's mounting bracket won't hang over the actual panel. If the bezels were any thinner up top, I'd probably not been able to mount it at all...
Just something to keep in mind...
it's like complaining that a bugatti is too fast and u prefer ur old toyota over it bro, there is always compromises when u go for the best stuff, usually it's the price but some people find the most stupid of problems to complain about lol
Rtings found WOLED much better than qd-oled for burn-in. The qd-oleds lack white pixels, unlike woled, and white images where burn-in mostly occurs.
You know, there is a feature in all modern Windows editions since Windows 7, called ClearType, which does exactly that, manage subpixel rendering. And actually, the 1st choice you're asked to make is between RGB and BGR layouts. So, text clarity should be equal between RGB and BRG layouts, if you configure ClearType correctly. Also, MS Edge now natively supports ClearType.
Windows has like 8 different systems that deal with subpixel text rendering and while Clear type is the most prevalent, it's not the only one.
@cas curse and how do you do that in Windows?
@cas curse you can share the link by posting a video on your channel or in your about section
The LCD monitor I'm watching you on is maybe 10 years old. It's still good as new. Guaranteed burn in after 3 years is unacceptable. Sorry.
Weird comments on the burn-in issue. Rtings is testing multiple implementations of the QD-OLED panels, and the TVs do include support for all of those mitigation features. The main difference is that it's an accelerated test. They added QD-OLED monitors to the test now, which should help to answer some of the push backs.
But I do not understand why he didn't use this as a warning sign for viewers. Hey, people can reproduce burn-ins on QD-OLEDs much more quicker than on other OLEDs using exactly the same methodology, there is something there. Running theory is that the lack of a white pixel makes bright areas of the screen be more taxing on QD-OLEDs than on other OLEDs and that makes sense to me.
Shouldn't we all treat as a sign that we need to investigate this matter further?
Great video! I'm using a QD-OLED Monitor and so far I'm happy with it, no signs of Burn In.
I think people claiming OLED burn-in are LCD fanboys. I got used smartphone with OLED screen few months ago and no burn-in so far. At least no new burn-in ;)
@@e8root you cant compare phone and pc when using oled screen...
How many hours you are watching stuff nonstop on your phone? On pc you can play for hours, you have taskbar that is constant.
@@e8root cope. Check it with screen test after some time and you'll see. I had many oled phones: Samsung, Oneplus, Poco and all of them had various degree of burn-in, athough, some are considerably worse than others
@@20puskinas1992 Reading skill at -9 my friend. And as for burn-in on phones vs PC/desktop its pretty much the same use case with perhaps less mitigations like pixel refresher -at least I never heard of such thing for phones. People spend hours on their phones and often have burn-in bottom function bar and top bar with the clock and icons. Keyboard is often burned in and even application people often use. My main phone LG V30 has name of "Paulina" burned in because previous user apparently talked with this girl a lot in messenger.
@@20puskinas1992fullscreen pepega
15:35 Completely disagree. Scalers do not use processors but specialized matrix multipliers and do them in parallel on pixels so gamut correction and color balance are separate. Manufacturers might lie about this if you ask them - often answer being provided by person which just invent answer to match reality. You can some times change white balance anyways if you go to service menu and some times using SoftMCCS. The reason why we do not have such feature is because manufacturers do not want to make monitor too good so you are more incentivized to buy professional monitor. Also there is this silly trend in computer monitors for locking settings in different modes. Nothing is stopping manufacturers exposing even more settings to user and if they worry about their sRGB mode they could for example give option to do sRGB gamut clamp in game mode. I myself expect for people like you (read: popular monitor reviewer) to call monitor manufacturers on their BS and not invent reasons why they are justified by clamping/limiting possibilities of their products. Otherwise trend of locking settings will continue - and it already lead to ridiculous issues like locked backlight brightness in sRGB mode or locking overdrive on ridiculously high setting in sRGB like sRGB needed overdrive artifacts. Let me repeat: call out manufacuters on their BS!
I'm in the exact same 32" OLED waiting boat. Good to hear they're coming, but it sucks how long the wait will be.
This is first time i disagree with HU real life experience. We have many many reddit posts about QD-Oled burnin problems even without HDR in windows after 3-4 months. its a big problem unelss you never watch youtube and only play games. But thats not realistic usage.
Thanks Tim.. For Keeping us up to date on Monitor tech!!!!
3 year warranty. I get why burn in is a problem that manufacturers don't want to really solve, just keep quiet enough, but this is another factor of ewaste we don't discuss enough.
I like monitors that go as long as possible. 3 years is so far from bifl. There are too many other things that need replacement 2-5 years and if they all die at the same time *****. . The prices are too high to be replacing a household every 2-5 years. Imagine if instead that actually led to people without getting functional older stuff, better than whatever budget waste available or nothing.
I know phones are different beasts, but at this point, I sometimes miss crts The way they discontinue models, even if there was a better monitor, by the time you know how good it is, it's too late to buy the best. This is true of many segments.
Worried that LG C2 42 will burn-in before my installment payments are done for it. Haha. Been using all the anti-burn-in features on the TV+ using Dark Room 2 for lesser brightness. So far no burn in after 6 months.
Yeah, I love my C2, I'm constantly turning off the TV when I leave the room :D
burn in depends on brightness. dont have it on max and you will be fine
Absolutely nothing to worry about…
@@JSII2L this is right and wrong. Burn is inevitable no matter the brightness, but, the higher the brightness the quicker it is
@@lilpain1997 Also the relation between brightness and burn-in is probably non-linear with eg. twice as bright leading to more burn-in than displaying the same thing for twice as long
Remember to leave your OLEDs in stand by mode folks, never unplug them when you turn them off or they will not do their mini pixel refreshes that help keep burn in away.
The sub-pixel thing is interesting, as I would have assumed Windows would take font hinting into account when choosing to rotate your display as it knows which direction you rotated in so surely not that hard to implement?
They dont even take into acount the current different sub pixel layouts.
@@mostlyindica yep and Cleartype is a mess of different API, not constant between both the old NT windows and the Win8 modern UI (aka Metro). On MSWindows, it's wiser to disable it and use Mactype instead, which is an implementation of Freetype, the font renderer from Linux/Android/BSD/OSX used on even the weirdest Pentile and triangle subpixel layout screens.
There are third-party utilities to try fix ClearType
@@brunogm No doubt, but as a core OS function why isn't it being dealt with natively?
@@alexatkin It's strange because for many years as ClearType patents were enforced, Linux for example was considerably uglier, so it is a very competitive feature.
Why it remains stagnant and with some bugs...only M$ knows
Excited for PHOLED
Woled is half wattage of QDoled 47w to 100w. just for anecdotal evidence. Amazon reviewer after only 2 months using it for productivity got taskbar burn in
I used the Alienware QD-OLED for the last year with no issues. I recently replaced it with an LG C2 42" since I use my desktop primarily for gaming.
OLED color and contrast cannot be beat. I will never go back to LED panels. But you have to be smart and plan ahead. Honestly, I grew up with CRTs so avoiding burn-in, turning off the display when not in use, screensavers... all of this is old news to me. But I get there's a whole generation that's never had to think about this stuff.
What made you go with the C2?
@@justitgstuff5284 Bigger display surface area. 16:9 ratio; I got irritated when games didn't properly support ultrawide. Also, better PS5 support for when I wanted to use it.
Why the downgrade? EDIT: Just saw your response. Console support is really the only reason to make that switch. But I heard the DWF variant does current gen consoles well. Just not 4K if it matters that much to you.
@@TypicalTomTV In day to day use, it doesn't feel like a downgrade. Based on my desk set up, the 34" felt small, I hated Alienware's bloatware software, and the 16:9 ratio is more compatible with games.
@@OptimumSlinky That makes sense. I went with the C2 over the AW for the same reasons. I could live with black bars when I use console, but losing HDMI 2.1 features like VRR would suck. My eyes are also bad so I figured the larger display area and resolution would help some.
There's an LG monitor that's designed to be vertical. It's something like a weird 3:4 aspect though. Also, phone screens and the one used on the Steam Deck are also designed to be vertical.
Also having a slightly thicker bezel at the bottle of the monitor helps ground/make a monitor look correct. This is at a unconscious level that people do not realize. ( if you doubt this statement, flip your monitor upside down and look at it. Then the top would look heavy and not quite right. )
Currently waiting for the LG 32 4k 240hz OLED monitor they're making. no way i can max it out but i dont think you need to upgrade ever again atleast not until it burns in or something. Hope it comes with a long warranty but probably not.
I don't think an OLED is a good choice for a long-term display. IMO you should either settle for an LCD or buy the cheapest OLED that is good for you.
@@leonro Didn't they fix the burn-in problems in the long run ?
@@A.Froster burn in is inevitable
Get a CRT bro. Or wait for nanoled.
@@kensuiki6791I have one but CRT's arent gonna last forever and they stopped making them many years ago, eventually we'll run out of working ones.
I have a launch day Samsung S95B that has been used for mostly gaming with the occasional movie. I don’t baby the thing and it has Zero burn in. Also there has been firmware updates since launch that Rtings might not have installed that an average consumer would have.
My roommate has the Alienware QD-OLED monitor and uses it for 9 hours of normal Work 5 days a week, and the rest of the time it is running Final Fantasy 14 and a few other games. Again she doesn’t baby the thing and after nearly 6 months of heavy use, zero burn in. She frequently runs into the warnings telling her to perform the pixel refresh too.
Rtings does a worst case scenario. It is also a single sample per model. It is not indicative of what 99% of people would face. I would say, if you are concerned about burn in, just get a good Mini-LED screen. They are so close to OLED with no risk of burn in.
Your work is greatly appreciated, keep it up!
When I saw the screensavers question listed on the bottom, I thought it would be about the old Screensavers TV show. 😆 That was a cool show.
I've had my QDOLED since about 6 months after the alienware AW3423DW released, and I've got no signs of burn in whatsoever, and I use it every single day, for gaming, web browsing, some light productivity.
Still same?
I love the OLED burn in question: "which type of OLED will I spend a massive amount of money on and have to throw away first due to being ruined by completely normal and reasonable use?" lulz
There is always a risk when buying cutting edge (or maybe even bleeding edge?) tech. I bought the Samsung G8 and had to fix some issues but its running fine now. I use it for desktop some times but usually reduce brightness and use dark mode and turn it of when I leave the desk for longer (also got a black screensaver)
Usually I use it for gaming and I just hope that my measures will avoid burn-in for a long time.
In my opinion and according to famous websites information the longevity of display depends on how/how long use it. One dude in rtings said that static images don't make sense a lot and screensavers will not prevent burn in. All depends on britghtness of the display, hours per day - Fatigue of the pixels. Exactly fatigue is causing the image retention, burn in. Maybe the static images Helps burn in faster cause one area (with logo for example) stay all the day in super bright pixels, so it's logic to cause some issues.I have C2 oled and use only for gaming and movies; windows taskbar, icons etc are hided and desktop is black screen to avoid pixel pressure. I used only a month after that bought neo g7 and neo g8 for testing, so I have not any burn in at this moment
i like my bezels because it keeps a nice contrast room back wall without having the whole wall painted black.
Can we get a review on the LG 45 inch OLED
In addition to what you've said, QD-OLED is also just a lot less mature than W-OLED, from my understanding. The monitors that are around use W-OLED, so there may have been changes to reduce burn-in (on the production level, in addition to stuff you named, like icon recognition), and these may also have been applied to TVs.
Yeah I don't see a reason screen savers would come back. The main reason we used screen savers instead of turning CRTs off was mainly because back then if you walked up to the computer, thought it was off, and hit the power button, you'd kill any programs running without any pop ups asking "are you sure you want to shutdown?" Even CRTs are still better to be off than running screen savers.
S95B has the same compensation cycles as the LG OLEDs. And it having burn in after 2 months of this stress test is highly concerning. The 2nd gen panels are said to be 2x more durable. The fact that Samsung Display even mention that, says to me that they know the first gen is more prone to burn in. The fact they quickly came out and via firmware toned down that 1500 nits peak down to 1050 nits. Says a lot. I have also heard from someone that calibrates TVs he's come across people with S95B with burn in. It's barely been out for a year.
LG has had over a decade experience with their OLEDs so they are ahead in this.
The test might be a little "hardcore" but that is only because they are 'accelerating' the results to simulate long term. So it's the amount of time any given image is on screen that determine burn in. It's cumulative over time. So even if the test does more hours in a day with CNN. If you do something regular with the TV that has banners or tickers or HUDs, over time that can start to manifest.
It's not likely to come as easy as in the test. But chances are it can or will.
The fact that we scrapped CRT technology for things like this is mind boggling🤦.
Don't have anything again OLED though.
A CRT that does what modern LED ones do would cost thousands. Large CRTs with high res and high refresh were selling for above 10k new.
I would really like to get a 4k 32" OLED but it seems like that is farther off than I thought. I was expecting them to be just around the corner, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Might just have to take the plunge and go with the Dell 34DWF. My current main monitor is a 27" 16/9 1440p IPS with the same height as the DWF, so pixel density should be the same. I would like to have the higher pixel density of a 4k screen but I don't really want to wait another 2 years, and the pixel density of my current screen is just fine.
I upgraded from a 5+ year old 27 inch ips to the dwf and it's a striking difference. And the standard 3 year warranty is pretty nifty.
You can get a C2 and gain extra horizontal space compared to an ultrawide
@@weisstal I already have a 55" CX as a television, and that thing is WAY to massive to serve as a computer monitor. Besides, I've already ordered the DWF. Should arrive in a few days.
I think that the subpixel issue for text on OLEDs is greatly exaggerated. I personally do not notice text fringing on my Alienware AW3423DWF although I am using better clear type fonts rather than Windows clear type but not sure how much difference that makes. I use my monitor for office work during the day and games in the evening.
>What aspect to performance actually matter
For gaming, Black frame insertion is what actually matters! You can't avoid display blur and ghosting without a solid BFI mode! This is why your 1200$ oled monitor looks the same in motion as your old 10 y/o VA monitor at 60fps! Without BFI mode, blur and ghosting is 100% framerate dependent and no less amount of response times can fix this. This is critical to understand and yet most people simply don't get it because of content creators' obsession with response time numbers that are meaningless without first dealing with the modern LCD's sample and hold blur!
so true!
So not true. With the Alienware AW3423DW for example you get effectively zero ghosting, low overshoot and low cumulative deviation. There are OLEDs that top the charts with zero ghosting. No other monitor tech comes close. I'm sorry you can't see the difference between a 10 year old VA at 60 fps and a good monitor. That sounds horrible.
*burn-in Warranty concerns...*
My ISSUE with this is that image retention can be "fixed" by appyling the setting that degrades the pixels (I guess it applies higher voltages for a while? Not sure the exact method). Anyway, you can AVOID BURN-IN at the expense of affecting the screen quality in other ways. Or perhaps I'm confused. But I'd assume people wouldn't suddenly have irreversible burn-in. They'd likely start getting Image Retention then "fix" it. Then later on have the same issue and again "fix" it thus further degrading the screen.
Not remotely a great price in my opinion, but LG has the 28MQ780-B for a vertical monitor if you’re concerned with the drawbacks mentioned turning a standard monitor vertical.
So i have Had an LG OLED TV for almost 3 years No, and its in use for multiple hours every day for playing Games and watching stuff. I dont notice any burn in what so ever, Runs perfectly fine Like on day 1
We do not want super thin bezels, they are ok as they are. We want just a non obtrusive "cheek" meaning lower bezel equal to sides and top. If this means somehow thicker monitors I would trade for that.
*LCD and OLED are converging on the SAME EXACT method...*
(I've OVERSIMPLIFIED this quite a bit. Don't attack me...)
For those who don't know, an LCD monitor basically has backlights that pass light through an LCD panel that filters out light. If we focus on just a RED subpixel then it's basically WHITE light going through a filter that passes ONLY a range of red light. On OLED a red sub-pixel was simply material that directly PRODUCED a range of red light... now, fast forward to now and "QD-OLED" is, again to oversimplify, an organic LED that produces WHITE light which is immediately ABSORBED by the coating of "quantum dust" on top of it. For RED the material absorbs white then emits RED light only...
So pretty simple for QD-OLED... split the problem into TWO pieces using QD. Concentrate on PRODUCING the light in the most logical method in terms of engineering, efficiency etc. Then concentrate on the Quantum Dust coating optimization that absorbs and re-emits the light...
Back to LCD. Because light LEAKS through the panel you want MORE backlights so you can turn some off. The more you have the smaller the ZONE is. If you move a CURSOR around a black screen, for example, you get a GLOW around it because the backlights for the ZONE it's presently in must be turned ON. The REST of the screen has the backlights off. So you see the cursor but also an undesirable GLOW around it...
The SOLUTION is to have many, small backlight zones. If you imagine ONE BACKLIGHT LED per pixel on a QD-LCD display then what have we got? A white backlight, with a QD coating then... an LCD filter? But we wouldn't even need a filter if we have one backlight per pixel. This would be IDENTICAL then to an OLED panel. LED + QD coating.
It takes TIME and MONEY to retool manufacturing plants so even if SUPERIOR panel technology exists it doesn't make financial sense to just throw money at the problem. But, long-story short is that we're converging on QD-OLED where the engineers will continue to concentrate on optimizing both the OLED material and QD material separately to reduce burn-in and cost... perhaps some phase-change technology will make it so ORGANIC LED's are no longer used but I think that LIGHT SOURCE + QD COATING is the only logical end solution for monitors. It's simply refinement after that.
(I assume that "QD-LCD" works better because the LCD panel isn't designed to assume a range of WHITE light coming at it. So you can design the RED filter with the assumption that you only have a specific range of red light coming at it. Which, I assume, means less light leakage as well which can improve color AND reduce the maximum light leakage when any LED backlights are on vs the non-QD versions? I may be wrong but it seems logical.)
What’s suspect is that RTINGS didn’t do any pixel refresh on the QD-OLED to get rid of the burn in. They also didn’t mention whether they used the logo dimmer and pixel shifter 🤔
There's nothing suspect. The left the TVs at their default. LG's default includes more active refreshes than Sony's does.
It's ok to just like Sony, without thinking any negative reporting on their products is "suspect".
I am appalled that commentary around burn in is focused on ongoing test results to see which LED panel brand will experience this built in obsolescence the fastest. If I bought a new car knowing that the windscreen would establish a burn in after only 3 years use would i buy that car? QLED and WLED panel manufacturers should not even be allowed to bring potentially defective panels to market. It is simply fraudulent conduct. Thanks for your update, most reviewers don't even mention burn in when comparing brands.
G'day Tim,
I miss the good Screensavers, like Bad Dog & the Terminator Builder, but if I will be away for longer than a couple of minutes, even if I don't turn the PC off I do turn the Monitor off.
I'd just like to say that first question by Piratejet21 was great, especially considering your recent OLED content explaining how the Pixel Layout affects Text Clarity in Windows & knowing that many streamers use a second monitor in Portrait for Chat. I do not use monitors for this situation but I like learning about usage outside of my my personal requirements.
OLED screensaver = solid black wallpaper, no icons, task bar hidden. Use a registry edit to hide the 1 px line still present on windows. Sleep naked on a concrete slab for even more minimalism.
Lot's of good information. Thx Tim!
I rund my pg42 with black background, auto hide taskbar and no desktop icons.
I never fought I would enjoy a Black wallpaper but its sooo nice getting back to the screen and look at perfect blacks.
Burn-in: while exact burn in can't be determined - it depends on how it is used and implementation i think the base technology used may indicate what is a better choice.
I would still be wary buying a OLED display that is used for PC work unless it has a long burn in warranty
Thanks for fixing the draw strings 😂 Great content. Thank you
Blank screen saver, black desktop and hide taskbar together all help
Want you to know this level of engagement with community and answering things is really great.
when telling windows to put your monitor in vertical mode, why doesn't it change the sub-pixel rendering algorithm to compensate?
Regarding the last question of bezel sizes - is crazy to me that we have phones which are the most abused pieces of tech that we keep in our pockets and throw around all day with super-slim bezels and all-glass construction, and then we have monitors which literally all have to do is mind their business on a desk without ever being moved or hassled having massive bezels.
I think this is just one of those idiocies - like saying that we can't have high-res cameras in laptops due to room constraints - although smartphone manufacturers manage to fit 24MP+ cameras in tiny punch holes inside phones screens.
It's funny how much these HDR examples look great on non-HDR screens. I really don't feel a need to run out and buy an OLED.
*"32" is just too small..."*
I may sound like a jerk, so if so sorry, but... why not just MOVE a 27" closer to you on the desk? 32" diagonal is only 18% longer than 27". Thus, if you move it 18% CLOSER you get the same experience. My eyes are EXACTLY 27" (1:1) from my monitor (I just measured it). So you'd move the monitor roughly... FIVE INCHES forward to get the same experience as a 32".
TCL claims that the standard shadow mask manufacturing doesn't allow for apertures small enough for 32" 4k. They did demonstrate a 32" 144hz OLED at CES as a demo for their inkjet OLED technique, but expressed no intention of releasing a monitor with that panel any time soon. Might just be marketing speak to claim superiority over LG and Samsung but we haven't seen an increase in pixel density with OLED in quite some time (the 42 inch from last year is just a cut down 8k which existed for a while already). The 32" 4k OLED found in the Asus and LG monitors are JOLED panels which use inkjet as well.
Some of the micro-OLED displays used in VR use shadow mask manufacturing so it could be possible, but maybe there are issues with scale. Hopefully this is resolved soon, since I want such a monitor too.
27inch 1440P is the sweet spot. 32inch will bring a low pixel density so be careful of what u ask for. With the people still afraid 😱 of burn 🔥 in, just buy the Best Buy warranty and forget about it.
I would argue 34 inch ultrawide is even better for gaming. More immersive, same pixel density. Need a heavy GPU though.
@@johandeen6096 agreed. I went from a 24" 1080p monitor to 27" 1440p, then added a second 32" 1440p monitor. Now I've replaced them all with a 34" 3440x1440 monitor and loving it! I'll never go back to 16:9 after experiencing ultrawide.
LG Dualup is good as a vertical alternative, its basically made for it
I know many people (including myself) that use their phones for many hours a day, and I don't know of anyone that has had burn in on their phones. Static elements like the keyboard or notification bar just don't burn in for some reason, even though phone screens don't use any kind of pixel refresher that i know of. Why is burn in such a massive issue on monitors compared to phones and tvs, even when phones and tvs are used similarly?
phones use much more expensive matrix oled 🤌
I really want microled to get here faster.
MiniLed will be better in 2/3 years. Micro 10/15 years to be affordable.
If serious about a vertical experience, checkout the LG DualUp monitor. It’s meant to give stacked 1440p 16:9 in one display but I think it could work. Only 60hz I recall but it’s interesting
faster burning for qd-oled, but a lot brighter displays. i'm pretty sure that if you lower the brightness to the same level of wrgb oleds the burn in should be almost identical.
Can I nuance your answer about vertical monitors? You mention 4k monitors as being preferred, but it's actually the high pixel density at work. I use a Dell Ultrasharp 24" 4k monitor in a vertical format and it's awesome.
Really nice video thank you !
Hi Tim! Stay awesome! ❤
In the future here. The 32in screens came out early 2024 but somwhat a paper launch.
Thin bezels and making display more thin is already causing issues on larger displays when you try to handle them and might lead to panel bending. Zero bezel would make for very classy look but I would not mind getting monitor with older style with hick bezels and thick panel.
I bet that even lighting on LED displays would be easier as well if they didnt try to make bezels ever thinner.
Feels like the super thing bezel (outside of multi-monitor niche) and screens are just marketing gimmicks. Same way how some smartphones are so thin its not even practical anymore. Id rather have a 3.5mm connector than 2mm less thickness for no reason.
5:30 That's really far away :(
1440p 240hz or higher will suffice as long as someone makes a glossy one.
A simple question. What is the best 27-inch monitor to play currently? Best graphic quality, response time, anti-reflective screen, colors, etc. The best of the best, please answer me if you can
Well, I guess I‘ll be sticking to my 10+ years old IPS monitors, until they eventually fail. OLED is still too unreliable and expensive for me
The bezels on my monitor are already just a few mm. While it would be nice to see them shrink further, I wouldn't want to compromise anything to do it.
Could you do a monitor of the month we're you use it for the month with production and gaming and then report back at the EOM?
It would interesting to see a review of the QE43QN90B or QE43QN90C from a monitor standpoint vs like of the LG C2
The point of the screensavers on CRT monitors was because they took forever to turn back on right? I know there was burn in but that's why we didn't just turn them off back then right?
@32:37 I alt-tab so much while working that it just _doesn't_ matter. lol
Lets go! 💪🏻👌🏻