We need more Christian thinkers. Better to be someone like C.S. Lewis who rejects inerrancy but believes in a good God than someone who's so stuck in the Bible that they believe God will damn everyone who wasn't lucky enough to hear the gospel in a compelling way (or worse yet were never enabled to believe the gospel when they heard it.) Our faith is supposed to be in God as revealed through the Lord Jesus, not in a book.
Aaron Fisher hostis, hétis, ho ti: whoever, anyone who Original Word: ὅστις, ἥτις, ὅτι Part of Speech: Relative Pronoun Transliteration: hostis, hétis, ho ti Phonetic Spelling: (hos'-tis) Definition: whoever, anyone who Usage: whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever
Chad Daniels Well the Roman Catholics believe it has two purposes, temporal punishment for sin and cleansing from the attachment of sin. Jesus took care of sin once for all so they have nothing biblical to support this doctrine. The protestants that believe in it believe it is not a punishment for sin but is used only for further purification. When we are born again we are not instantly made completely perfect which is evident by the fact that we still sin. Personally I don't know of any scripture that would clearly support a place existing like purgatory so my guess is it's a hypothetical idea derived from a philosophical thought.
" but is used only for further purification." Correct. It's a denial of the perfect atoning work of Jesus Christ. It's saying that Christ's blood does not perfect you quite enough, but you need Christ's blod + your own suffering in purgatory in order to make to it heaven. It's a denial of the perfect work of Christ.
I agree in the sense that Christ died for our sins and took care of the sin problem once for all but how do you explain the fact that born again believers still sin? My thought is that we will continue to struggle with sin as long as we dwell in these earthly bodies and have to deal with the temptations of this world. I can't say for sure but my guess is that once we are no longer living in a fallen world there will be nothing to tempt us and we will have glorified bodies so we will not need or want anything so I can't see a reason to have a purging place. We can't be certain of that because the bible doesn't lay it out for us.
Man! The gloves come off with Mr. Hall. I really like Jerry Walls, and it is a regrettable fact that Christianity is a thought-police state. Sad that Leighton has to defend simply allowing someone to express himself as though it is itself on the ragged edge of apostasy.
I understand much of your defense of Jerry Walls, but the statement from him, "If universalism turns out to be true, I would be delighted" is deeply concerning, because it's an impossibility. The last few chapters of Revelation make it obvious that not all people will be saved, for only the repentant are saved. If he's saying universalism is within orthodoxy, I find that horrifying and significantly worse than his ideas about purgatory. Universalism being tree annihilates free will and responsibility just like Calvinism does. Calvinism, however, does so in an orthodox, inconsistent manner; universalism is just rank damnable heresy.
"All could be saved" How could all be saved when the Book of Revelation tells us that there will be people cast into hell? Are you saying Revelation could be wrong?
Man that's so interesting Piper gets a free pass, but Dr Jerry Walls is considered a heretic for holding the same type of view.
We need more Christian thinkers. Better to be someone like C.S. Lewis who rejects inerrancy but believes in a good God than someone who's so stuck in the Bible that they believe God will damn everyone who wasn't lucky enough to hear the gospel in a compelling way (or worse yet were never enabled to believe the gospel when they heard it.)
Our faith is supposed to be in God as revealed through the Lord Jesus, not in a book.
The ignorance of some of these comments is almost shocking 😳😂
What's the greek word for whosoever??
Doesn't exist
Aaron Fisher hostis, hétis, ho ti: whoever, anyone who
Original Word: ὅστις, ἥτις, ὅτι
Part of Speech: Relative Pronoun
Transliteration: hostis, hétis, ho ti
Phonetic Spelling: (hos'-tis)
Definition: whoever, anyone who
Usage: whosoever, whichsoever, whatsoever
Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers... C.S. Lewis believed in purgatory. I wouldn't label him a heretic because of that.
Do you know what the purpose of Purgatory is?
Chad Daniels Well the Roman Catholics believe it has two purposes, temporal punishment for sin and cleansing from the attachment of sin. Jesus took care of sin once for all so they have nothing biblical to support this doctrine. The protestants that believe in it believe it is not a punishment for sin but is used only for further purification. When we are born again we are not instantly made completely perfect which is evident by the fact that we still sin. Personally I don't know of any scripture that would clearly support a place existing like purgatory so my guess is it's a hypothetical idea derived from a philosophical thought.
" but is used only for further purification."
Correct. It's a denial of the perfect atoning work of Jesus Christ. It's saying that Christ's blood does not perfect you quite enough, but you need Christ's blod + your own suffering in purgatory in order to make to it heaven.
It's a denial of the perfect work of Christ.
I agree in the sense that Christ died for our sins and took care of the sin problem once for all but how do you explain the fact that born again believers still sin? My thought is that we will continue to struggle with sin as long as we dwell in these earthly bodies and have to deal with the temptations of this world. I can't say for sure but my guess is that once we are no longer living in a fallen world there will be nothing to tempt us and we will have glorified bodies so we will not need or want anything so I can't see a reason to have a purging place. We can't be certain of that because the bible doesn't lay it out for us.
I would.
Man! The gloves come off with Mr. Hall.
I really like Jerry Walls, and it is a regrettable fact that Christianity is a thought-police state. Sad that Leighton has to defend simply allowing someone to express himself as though it is itself on the ragged edge of apostasy.
Hi my friend... been a while. I see you are still perpetuating anti-Christ theology.
Hope all is well.
I understand much of your defense of Jerry Walls, but the statement from him, "If universalism turns out to be true, I would be delighted" is deeply concerning, because it's an impossibility. The last few chapters of Revelation make it obvious that not all people will be saved, for only the repentant are saved. If he's saying universalism is within orthodoxy, I find that horrifying and significantly worse than his ideas about purgatory.
Universalism being tree annihilates free will and responsibility just like Calvinism does. Calvinism, however, does so in an orthodox, inconsistent manner; universalism is just rank damnable heresy.
TheCrushmaster it's wrong that he'd be happy if nobody were eternally dammed? I think that's what we should all want.
"All could be saved"
How could all be saved when the Book of Revelation tells us that there will be people cast into hell? Are you saying Revelation could be wrong?