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What do you mean none of them were paid. That DM was scraping money off the walls and demanding service from his players and he didn't even throw them a single stack? Audacious.
@@kamidarko yeah that's my point for putting exposure in quotes Mason. I was being factious. That would have been the most likely answer he would use to defend himself.
Yeah that's ludicrous and ridiculous. The whole thing is a collaborative effort and they should of all gotten paid since it's stated to be for a show/entertainment.
The Hard Truth of the "If you dont give the audience a reason to care, they wont..." Is the best truth bomb that many people gloss over when they start streaming/posting on YoutTube. I appreciate all of your content Mr. Crab!
Yup, the reason people cared about Critical Role at first was that they had the draw of all being notable voice actors on some pretty famous productions. So they had the advantage of a sort of built in fanbase as well as job experience that played into what they were doing. If you're some random, you don't go in expecting to be "the next critical role" you go in trying to do your best and see if it works.
@@piranhaplantX roll play has internet famous twitch gamers, dimension 20 has internet famous comedians, and acquistion incorporated had chris perkins a notable figure in the dnd community. Big dnd shows usually have people who have some fame pr notoriety before streaming. It's why people tune in.
@@JamesBond-mm3iu Yeah, that's what I was getting at here. There are a lot of delusional people who think they'll make it big because of DND and become the "next critical role" but Critical Role is people who were already big, and their show became big because of this, and in turn grew the hobby. So basically my point was that a lot of people go in with twisted logic like this.
@@piranhaplantX Really also Matt Mercer is an effect. Anyone who's tuned in for 20 minutes of him doing NPCs and managing the table is generally impressed enough to get sucked into watching the rest of the game.
One of the most cruel things one can say to an aspiring creative is "Just do your best and you'll succeed." There are just so many variables to every kind of creative work - putting up with bad bosses, getting lucky sending your work in to potential publishers/producers/etc., people using back channels with bribes or worse to get the job or deal they want. Or just "Yeah, this person's dad owns the company, so what can ya do". And when it comes to creative performance stuff, it's probably even worse... In summary, if you want to be a star, be prepared for daggers coming at you from every direction while you climb a mountain one-handed. And then, if you do make it, expect to ask yourself "What was that all even for...?"
Also in the context of CR and Dimension 20 (big fan of the later) the players and DMs are experienced actors and well experienced with improv. This is why they entertain me and get a good laugh or have me at the edge of the seat because their performances keep me hooked. This is something people should understand cuz Mercer and Mulligan are great DMs cuz of their backgrounds but as well they have a good chemistry with the players which is important as it shows they enjoy what the DM throws their way and the DM loves how they react and throw back at em.
Exactly. My favorite roleplaying channel is Me, Myself, and Die and it's definitely Trevor's acting and experience as a player that makes the stories he tells so engaging despite the fact even he doesn't even know which way the story will go and needs to tie things together on the fly.
With you on dimension 20 being awesome! I just can't get into critical roll, I genuinely find it too cringe to watch. I know they're actors and voice actors but I find them to be far too extra and over the top.
I'm glad that what got me weaned on dnd content was the Oxventure crew. Just the huge amount of shit they did plain wrong in their first fair few outings set me with some easy realistic pointers on how to deal with things. Especially the DM's general beleaguered attitude has led to me being *generally* pretty good at rolling with punches. Sadly, I suspect my slight railroad-y tendencies to be due to the way their campaigns work, which is pretty railroaded within small confines of freedom, not unlike an immersive sim. I would like to try my hand at setting a more freeform campaign, but currently they're hot on the tails of the BBEG and I'm looking forward to wrapping it up (as are they, I'd assume) so what can I do?
its a weird vibe when people say " I want this channel to be the next [popular relevant content creator]" It's different when you say " My inspiration is [content creator] but I wanna do my own thing" or " I like the vibe of this content creator and its helping me know what I want for my stream" or something like that. Maybe it's just me.
@@Nicooriia The latter means they want to make something along the same vein as something they really like. It means they know growth doesn't come fast and easy without absurd luck. The former means they have no clue what they're doing, they just saw someone else's success and want it for themselves. They'll copy and assume ripping off someone big means their own version will immediately become the same thing. They'll be too blinded by the pie in the sky to see what they're actually making. Reality is just a distraction from the unrealistic dream
Critical Role didn't even plan to be what it became. And still get amazed themselves at how big they've become. They had been playing for ages just for a fun friendly get together. The only intention being to play D&D because they loved it. Even when they were approached and started doing it, they thought it might just run 10 sessions and fade away. They didn't think people would be that into it, to the point that they were shocked and didn't understand why the fans had pizza sent to them. They never expected having their own company, merch, an animated series, comic books, etc. And they didn't plan or expect that Even though they were starting off with some backing, and were well known, and had industry connections.
The worst thing I've ever done as a DM: "Hey guys, I can't really plan out a session if only half of our group is active in the conversation of when we can all play together. So I'm gonna put a halt on our campaign until we can so I can get my weekends back instead of waiting for a game that can't start because two out of five players showed up." Starting to feel less shitty after hearing these stories
My DM ran a series of one-shots with our existing characters when a few members couldn't make it for a few weeks. It was actually a pretty refreshing break from the campaign.
That 'none of them were getting paid' hit me the same way 'we're out of coffee' hit the passengers in Airplane 2. If I'm helping you make something on a regular basis and you want me to act to a certain professional standard, it better be helping put food in my fridge.
Yeah, this is worse than someone 'paying people in exposure', because it seems like none of the players, or at least not OP and their wife, cared much about the face, they just wanted to play D & D. What the DM was trying to pay them in was his **own** exposure.
I was in a band a number of years ago that played a few gigs around town and released a cd. All the money went to the songwriter and none to any of the other band members. Fun times. Good motivation.
The reliance on fan support is what would have made me leave the game. "I'm sorry you want me to pray that there's a big enough hype train that I can make these impossible saves? Nope I'm good"
Two solutions: 1- Leave ASAP as suggested. Without a word between sessions or on-stream, doesn't matter too much. 2- Go full shoot. Call out the DM on his bullshit in front of the fans. I mean, come on, Jackass asks the players to do the job of entertainers and pay him so they can do their jobs. And then he has the audacity to ask the audience to pay a hundred bucks just to avoid TPKs? Just that is enough material to get pipebombed to hell. Damage the DM's product/brand beyond no repair.
I think it's an interesting to introduce audience interaction into the game, but this was just a terrible implementation of the concept. Kinda just nuts.
The "Matt Mercer Syndrome" is jealousy. We aren't Matt Mercer. You wont BE Matt Mercer. Nobody should ever expect you to be Matt Mercer. Be you, as a DM. Don't have some obstacle for yourself- Just do what you do, and if you want to storytell like someone else, practice it. Be chill and support your DM's as long as they arent the devil incarnate. Fun in a game is up to you.
Why? I fucking hate Critical Role and everything connecting to it. I'd rather guzzle down a litre of petrol and jump into an active volcano than become something like Matt Mercer
I will never be Matt Mercer, and I never want to be Matt Mercer, I'm DMing how I want to DM, goofy voices, pointless yet entertaining dialogue, joke items that have no purpose (such as my iconic 'Potion of Punch Yourself in the Face'), Matt may be an amazing DM, but he's not the kind of DM I am, and he's not the kind of DM I want to be.
If you want to be like Matt, you have to do an analysis of what makes his style appealing to you. Then shamelessly steal and develop those qualities in yourself. Is it confidence? Is it world building? Is it his positive outlook regardless of what his "friends" do, his ability to laugh along as they disrespect every name ever? Is it always saying, "So..." or "toothy maw"? Figure out what it is about his style that attract you to it, and implement that. Don't pretend to be Matt Mercer. But practice over years, as he has, and you'll become something better: yourself with skills.
This is probably the third time I hear you talk about someone with the entrepreneur syndrome, the stories end up being different, but it always starts with a basement dude who wants to compete with industry giants by making a throne out of their own friends.
For those who are planning to be the next Matt Mercer, here’s a word of advice: You are never going to be Matt Mercer. Ever. So quit while you can and just do your own thing instead.
Yes, but I know a guy who can spend like 3 hours to worded out a wish spell. To avoid all theoretical possibilities of backfire. I'm pretty sure simple no, isn't enough for that type of people.
Well, Arcadum's stuff temporarily got bigger than critical role Then it all crashed in a few days when several of the female players revealed how he interacted with them in private
and whos matt mercer search him up and boy would i end up being a reverse matt mercer not doing weird voices not making anyone laugh and pretty much quite most of the time and they would be stupid hard if you did like it i would tell you to git good
The thing is, there's already a Matt Mercer. It's like with games that tried to be WoW, Minecraft or Fortnite. Trying to ape a great thing/person without trying to stand out will just get everyone to dismiss you as a copy cat. At least try to be your own thing, like how Lord of the Rings Online is basically WoW, but in Middle Earth. That's why it's doing ok, because there are enough people who love WoW and Tolkien. They could have tried to be Critical Role, but with Shadowrun, or something.
I swear people forget that the people on Critical Role are not just yahoos who got lucky. They were all very well known voice actors prior to the show. I guarantee there are people who heard that among others, Roy Mustang and Lust from Fullmetal Alchemist, Donetello from Ninja Turtles, and Ellie from The Last of Us were starting a DND stream with Jojo from Jojo as the DM and thought that sounded awesome. So they were willing to give a few hours to give the stream a go
Nah nah nah, you first do 1 session to get integrated into the group, and then get everyone's contact info. If you confront the DM with the others present, then they can't just get rid of you without it appearing very bad to the other players. Gotta unionize before engaging 'the boss'
I've been creating/partaking in tabletop projects for a long time, and I've never been as frightened as the day I was told: "We're gonna be the next D&D - No: even better!" By a random dude with literally no tabletop experience ever
A really great quote I heard, about starting UA-cam but I think it applies to streaming as well. "If you want to start doing this because you want to get rich and famous, then don't because you won't. But if you want to start doing this because you think you're really going to love doing it, then do it. And you just might make a little money along the way"
Especially considering how little money you even get from making vids, and that's by years ago standards. They've dropped in recent years. By now you'd be lucky to pay a singular fuel payment with a year of videos
Matt Mercer has been a blessing and a curse to the dungeons and dragons community As someone who runs a dnd podcast (dungeons r us) I didn't go into it to compete with the big dogs. It's more therapy for me. It gives me something to look forward to at the end of my "real" job. I don't really mind if no one listens, although I hope people do and enjoy it but at the end of the day it simply bring me happiness.
I had my own horror story of a dm, doing things such as trying to convert me constantly to just being a huge railroady and a "If you don't play it my way, hit the highway" kinda guy, to the point he would exclude telling me class abilities when I was first starting out, like half of Fighter's abilities, making us weaker overall. This was without player consent as well. So it is kinda nice knowing that most people have had their fair share of bad Dm's or players and we can all have a laugh about it afterwards.
I don't necessarily think it's a fair share of bad DMs and more a fair share of bad people. These things are literally almost all issues these people have imbedded in their personality.
this DM presented this as professional production and didnt offer to PAY his players??? thats pretty cold, especially since during the stream he was having money flowing in. so he just took all the donation money during the Twitch stream and pocketed it all for himself. wonder how his watchers wouldve felt about that if that got out
I'm just still surprised by the p2w donation system lol. Imagine running a campaign so badly that even your players donate to try to figure out wtf to do. xD
@@ratburgler And best part was it not working even still. Yeah. That's when you know it's bad. Pay 2 Win can be excusable if the prices are good enough (as in, very cheap), and, the biggest reason, not mandatory. But the moment you make it mandatory is fucked, especially if it is not a one time only purchase like DLC. Because not only is it unfair against the people who don't pay, it also is unfair against the people who do pay, who should be getting rewarded for actually caring enough to spend money. And then we have what happened here where the Pay 2 Win wasn't guaranteed. That is automatic manipulation and exploitation with no excuse.
A good comeback might have been "Professionals tend to be paid salaries." Well, it's always easy to come up with one in hindsight... not so much in the heat of the moment.
IS THIS A COMMON THING?! Holy shit I'm having flashbacks to a show I was on and the DM ended up melting down about professionalism and respecting their creativity and shit.
It's both common and very rare at the same time. People trying to be some famous person: absolutely. Putting in this much work into a stream: varies. DMs being horrible and doing batshit insane stuff: oh yeah, big time.
All jokes aside, I really think the favorite color question would be the one that would throw me the most... there are so many good ones, it's like picking your favorite movie. You want to say something serious then you remember holy grail/the color indigo exist.
My first dnd experience was joining a curse of Strahd game a friend was dming with afew buddies. I wasn't aware until 3 hours into the first session that he was streaming it on twitch. It only lasted 3 sessions because in he didn't read the book and decided to wing it with a dungeon and fill it with references to a video game I never played. After we all struggled to work out his nonsensical puzzles he called us all stupid and idiots and just showed us the way out. I blew up on him in dms after the game and we never played again.
After hearing that viewers could donate to help the party? It clicked to me this guy was trying to be the next critical role so he can rake in the dough more than anything.
They only did it the one time as I recall but it was established as a non canon one shot for charity. And even that they never did again cause we have horrible ideas and it got pretty weird.
I would never play in a game where the DM is paid to DM. Puts far too much pressure on them to "get it right". Then again, I don't play in wargaming tournaments where there's a cash prize or play e-sports computer gaming. I suppose it's a similar situation...
wait the players were paying him? i understood that the donations came from the stream viewers, not from the players... so he basically was setting the challenges so high for them to spend money to overcome them? speaking of pay to win, but in D&D XD
@@wizzolo They collectively paid for his stream setup so yeah, he'd probably wringle more money out of them when he suddenly "wants to upgrade equipment" just so he can get paid over time.
Hello King Crab! You have been a source of knowledge and wisdom on exactly what not to do in a D&D game‐- and sometimes, what you SHOULD do in a D&D game. A constant source of great pointers for 5e folks and tabletop gamers everywhere, by exhibiting bad examples. You're doing God's work, and bringing widespread attention to joyless, overbearing, hateful nerds. Godspeed, Crablord.
hmm, allowing watchers to involve themselves in the game by donating to help or buff the PCs or NPCs could be an interesting mechanic if it's actually incorporated. like, "there are plenty of gods and god-like existences out there watching you adventurers for their entertainment. if you manage to catch one's attention in particular, you might be lucky enough to receive a gift from them. upset one, and they could try and get you killed off."
Crit I can see this… Make it private not unlisted, surprisingly I even got the notification. Also as an actual play dnd streamer, what you should do is be like arcadum (don’t be the bad parts of arcadum), meaning that they should be different and new. Personally I like slightly edited ~2 hour videos.
I think there's nothing wrong with doing something that other people already did but everybody should have fun first and foremost. It might be harder to get popular but it's not a job I think all big and popular streamers started doing it as a hobby then when they got popular made job out of it
It wasn't corporate money that gave Critical Role a head start. It was the fact that each member of the cast already had a pretty huge fan following before even starting the show from their acting work. So when they started streaming the D&D game it was a lot of "holy shit my favourite voice actor plays D&D? I gotta see this". If you are someone who has 0 fans it's going to be realllly hard for you to gain an audience and keep people engaged.
Geek and Sundry at the time were corporate money. They gave them a platform as well as allowed the players to take part in other shows. The difference is that they weren't in it for a cash grab then.
I started my channel about 7 months ago. We do "live play" roleplaying games (D&D, etc.), but honestly, I didn't even expect the small audience we have. Don't get me wrong, I put a lot of effort into making the game fun, but the first few episodes were bumpy as anything new is. We're much better now, but, you know, there is a big gap between Mercer and me and always will be. See, I built my channel to document us playing. I have been playing since 1984 and have had no history to go back and see us playing. Then, during Covid, we lost one friend to that situation and I'm still sad about it. Then, another one of my friends almost died when he had a heart attack. It was then that I decided to start our channel so that we could have documentation that we existed. I have no delusions that we'll be famous or anything, just that one day, hopefully years from now, any one of us can go back and experience playing again or even that maybe one of our kids will (or grandkids). I think you need to do things that feed your soul, and if you do that it doesn';t really matter what your audience size is.
The mere fact you guys are doing it to just document your adventures is worthy of more audience, because that's the kind of thing that got CR into a household name. They just decided, hey, let's stram 5e, and then from there it snowballed. You just wanted to document your games to enjoy them later with your friends and to show the world you existed. That's a noble intention.
Trying to start from nowhere and be the next CR right out of the gate is like filming your friends play basketball and think you're the next NBA. Also, anyone figured out which stream this is?
Pretty sure most of the stories on this channel aren't real. It's always second or third hand information. So even the guy telling them has no accountability. At that point this guy can just make up whatever he wants and then just say, "well that's what the anonymous poster wrote....". Yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Been a dm for just over a year now But been playing the game for over 18 years My first campaign well has been a shit show of op characters as I thought only good loot is the best loot So me wanting to be like Matt Mercer is gonna take years of doing the dm position but then again I rather do my own thing as it’s my story not Matt’s
I appreciate the pared-down commentary to let the story take center stage. Make a great point and move out of the way, unlike others who prattle on and on with more of the video being waxing philosophy and not just interrupting but obliterating the flow of the story
Crit crab, thank you for helping me dodge a bullet, by teaching about red flags. I reconized the that guy, and that I was not comfortable with the dm deciding everyones spells and abilities, not even letting us assign our own stats, and noped out. I believe I was rescued by crab, from a fate worse than no DnD
@@elderliddle2733 not much to tell. My brother wanted to start a campaign and i was excited. We got there, and right away, one player started loudly talking about how much he hated tge setting, and premise, and universe, etc, because "swords are supperior to blasters". We all tried to suggest ideas to work with him, but in the end, switched to a more dnd setting, usind a system that isn't made for it. So, we all had to come up with new chatacters on the spot, while the guy went on about being a ninja samari, and how in history, ninja samari were the greatest warriors of all time, and japanese katanas are the greatest weapons ever, and black belts are obtained by blindfolding students and attacking them with sharpened katana. Meanwhile, my brother was having players copy down characters from a book, but ee could totally name them and decide on a background. I decided to play a half orc who wanted to be a druid, but couldnt, so instead she became a cleric for the wild mother. My concept is a shy, sweet character, who grew up isolated in the woods, and has no idea people can be dishonest. Well, by brother filled out the character sheet for me, and now she's an op healer op strong character who is also a bard? For reasons? No one has been allowed to pick their spells or abilities, the ninja samari is mad he has to use a fighting style that isnt karate, because everything else is inferior. And I'm annoyed because I really wanted to have more plant and weather based spells, and instead, I have magic missile and fireball. To be fair to my brother, he did let me try and home brew a mechanic, and he is trying to do things he thinks people want. But he gets very stressed, very easily after a traumatic head injury, and trying to explain our characters to him is more information than he can take in at once. I love my brother, and he is trying, and he has always loved table top, and I want him to have that experience, and have fun, and a group he can spend that time with every week. He really lights up talking about it, and is going to the liberary today to print out things for the game. I might still pop in occasionally to support him, but I'm moving soon and it's my excuse to bow out without many hurt feelings.
@@fleurpouvior2967 it’s going to crash and burn. I appreciate you not wanting to hurt his feelings but he’s going to be frustrated when people disinvest. You might want to consider a very carefully placed warning that most people who get into DnD like having control over all these things. Your brother sounds like he has a very set idea of how things should Go and is not going to be prepared for when they end up doing something else instead.
@@kagato23 I'm kind of letting the chips fall where they may. I sort of expect it to fizzel out. Last session apparently was more hanging out chatting and eating chips than anything. I think I'm hoping that even if it doesn't end up in much game play, he can at least build a group of friends and get out of the house to have fun with others.
I have played (and DMed) plenty of one shot games with pregenerated characters, that's in no way a red flag. as long as stuff is established in advance and everybody agrees on it it's fine.
Man this campaign and how possessive this DM was about their creation makes me super thankful of my DM and how her world has so many batshit things that everyone is willing to just do what seems most fun (even if that ends up being massive chaos that makes her think on her feet and to her credit she's yet to fail that challenge). It always starts off sort of like a Real Time Fandub. For the first few sessions in the campaign we sort of bumble around until we find the through line, and then go hard in following the vague overarching through lines we create/discover. They also statted gods so that we could very much fight a god (and given our track record, kick their shit in at a high enough level) if we wanted to. Nothing was off the table so long as it made sense in-universe, and it "making sense" in universe is "does everyone like this idea and is it hilarious to the DM"? We seemed to always piss the main drow goddess off with our antics (which was especially hilarious in the campaign where we were _helping_ her without her asking) so that became a running joke in our group.
As someone fairly familiar with Pahtfinder 2nd ed, I say "fuck this GM." Setting a DC at 60?! The suggested DC for a level 25 character is 50. so setting a DC at 60 for a level 17 character is patently absurd.
Oh yay a new video, I found your channel like 4-5 days ago and been binging pretty much every video(in random order) while at work and got done listening to the last video(Karen dethrones a god) yesterday. Love them all, especially when you put that extra flair into the speech.
This DM let the greed get to his head, and wanted it to be fun but professional. Unfortunately, he made it nearly impossible for the players to have fun with a DC 60 roll. Given that everyone else couldn't make the roll and the person who could had to use everything just to clear it, it shows they weren't having fun anymore. I get it, Matt Mercer is a great DM, but even he'll say "don't be me, be yourself". Don't make impossible tasks then expect things to be fine afterwards.
I thought it would be pretty easy to just load up twitch and maybe see what kind of pathfinder streamers are out there..... jeezus christ theres a shit ton of ttrpg streams these days.
I feel like people forget CR launched its first livestreamed episode TWO whole years into their campaign. So you could already feel their attachment to the characters and it drew you in more than anything. Along with beings fans of whatever VO brought a crowd in too. An example would be if Pokimane and Co started DnD'ing sundays they would reach CR levels within a year, random nobodies wont so they gotta build a following
One of my favorite dnd "podcasts" is a presidents AI dnd series. Each episode is only 10-20 minutes, but the series is amazing with both the plot and the bickering between the caricatures of the presidents. The point is, you've got to be prepared to make your own story with your own original twists and know what you are doing with the resources you have.
Heya crab, thank you for just being there, this is what really got me into ttrpgs and I just wanted to thank you. (not that it matters but I have been here since 5k and it is cool to see how much you have grown)
that last comment "they didn't even get paid" fucking sent me. they had to invest in sound equipment, huge time commitment, had to get donations from the audience, all for this guy to make money from?? i love playing dnd and have spent money for a campaign before, or helped out our DM, but it was never asked of me, and i did it because i genuinely enjoyed it.
The other day my DM said he wanted to stars streaming games in the future for fun and u think it's cool. He said it's mostly gonna be for us to go back and watch the games for our own purposes (eg looking for hidden lore and stuff like that) and that if people watch good for them. We play online so it really isn't a hassle for us to do which is nice unlike actual plays. I trust him to not fuck us over like these people because he actually is a really good dm
People like this really need realistic goals to achieve, it's practically impossible to be the next CR or any popular TTRPG channel for the reason stated by Crit Crab. My DM only streams our game not just for whoever wants to watch it but to store the session later as a video. Just for any of us players to watch the good times we had or it's a good reminder of events that happen during the sessions.
Hey CritCrab! Love your videos. Watching them actually convinced me to make the push to find a group and get back in D&D, which I did. Thanks CritCrab!
Ya know, it’s fine to look up to Matt Mercer and Critical Role as inspiration, but never more than that. No one is ever going to be those people. They are professional voice actors with lots of funding. As a brand new, budding DM, I idolize them, but I know I’ll never be able to be a Matt Mercer, and I’m okay with that. As long as the game is fun for everyone and we get to tell our own story, I’m cool with not being able to do fun voices or earn money doing something like this. And I wish other people were too. There’s nothing wrong with not being Critical Role.
"No one is ever going to be those people. They are professional voice actors with lots of funding." Also, when they started out, they had access to a studio and Geek and Sundry's audience, which made the whole thing a bit of a free bet. They also got to transition from being a janky home-game-but-online, where the audience sent them pizzas, to being a professional production at their own pace, and with no established predecessor to be unflatteringly compared to. It probably also helped that they got their 'big scandal' out of the way in the first couple of months.
Hey, don't sell yourself short my man. Acting experience, professionalism, money, that might make CR a better entertainment product for a mass audience but it doesn't have a lick of anything to do with making a fun, memorable, meaningful RPG experience for you and your friends. Matt's a talented guy and has the experience to facilitate a ton of fun for the other players at the table, but he's not Jesus out of Nazareth and isn't so towering above any other GM who's ever lived. I heard it said once that the greatest games ever played, the greatest worlds ever built, were played in basements and the back rooms of game shops across all these decades by little friend groups who have no evidence of them besides drawers of scribbled notes and fond reminiscing years after the fact. At the end of the day, and as a new GM I ask you to take this to heart, there's one job you have: Do your best to make sure everyone at the table has as much fun as they can in the boundaries of the game. There is no other metric that matters, there is nothing else that you have to do to be an amazing GM on par with anyone who's ever done it. If you ever in your life have everyone walking away from a session with smiles on their faces, telling you that it was one of the most fun things they've ever done and that they'll be remembering it for months and months, then it doesn't matter if you didn't have professional lighting, it doesn't matter if you cobbled the story and NPCs together from sticks and tissue paper, it doesn't matter if your miniatures were actually pencil erasers, it doesn't matter if you can't do the voices and can only change your tonal inflections slightly, and it doesn't even matter if nothing plot or lore important at all happened. If you've ever just made everyone really, really enjoy their time while you were running a game then congratulations, you have officially become just as good a GM as Matthew Mercer himself, because that's literally what it's all about and don't let any knuckleheads repeating the words "actor" and "money" at you tell you otherwise.
@@01subject oh-for sure, there are still ways to make an RPG fun for your player. I’m only saying that no one is going to be Matt Mercer and Critical Role. They already exist. They exist the way that they do because they have access to equipment, they’re talented actors, all that jazz. You can still have a fun time without someone putting on a hundred voices or having creepy lighting, or flickering torches or background music. Fun is what you make it.
They didn't start with all that finding and the funding doesn't create the story Matt puts together. Someone else said he has help writing. You don't write a campaign you develop a basic outline of what you want to do and then your players take control and you adjust on the fly. That's all Matt. He's just really talented and creative.
There's another streaming show I like to watch on Twitch called Rotgrind (a Dark Souls-inspired world made by the same people behind If the Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device). They've handled donations a bunch of different ways, but most recently they've had it so different characters can be donated to in order to give them Hero Points, which are used primarily for rerolls. Critically, though, the game is balanced around the assumption that players are going to be getting Hero Points on a semi-regular basis, and just as critically, *every player gets their cut of the donations.* Compare with this guy, who made massive demands of his players but gave little in return, and effectively rebalanced his entire campaign to squeeze cash out of the audience- solely to get the money *he* would enjoy. Rather than treating his players as artistic collaborators, he treated them as unpaid interns who should be grateful just to get the experience of playing with him. Unsurprising, then, that the whole thing fell apart.
Instead be better than Matt. He's on record wanting other DM to out do him. Don't worry about being Matt, worry about being better than Matt knowing that Matt himself would back you 100%
Me: *watching the video* “Nothing unusual here, just run of the mill DM douchebaggery.” CritCrab: “Oh and to top it all off, none of them were getting paid.” Me: “THAT FIEND!”
I've watched some twitch streams of D&D games and honestly I enjoy many of the ones with no big production value. Not all the stuff that Critical Role and the big names have. Just some decent video cameras, and mics and everyone sitting around a table playing the game. Like the old days of going to the back room of the game store and watching a group play, only with a wider audience online. They really just need enough money in equipment so we can hear them well, and see them fine. So long as the story is actually good enough.
I love to passively listening to these as do work or if I try to write some characters for a session. While It sucks to see any session fall apart, stuff like this does help others spot red flags and understand why somethings do or don’t work
Matt Mercer is a good DM, but he is also backed by multiple writers, every player is a professional, and everyone gets paid. Don't expect a DM to be Mercer, don't expect your table to be Critical Roll. You can have fun at a table without those things, you can have fun at a table playing different styles. Some groups are very into RP, some are more wargames, and some are just an excuse to relax, throw some dice and drink a beer with pals.
The only thing I EVER expect from my players is having the ability to communicate. Either communicating their plans to me on how combat is gonna go on their turn, communicating how their character is behaving, even communicating with each other in the party without my interference. I understand that some people tend to be shy and dont know how to communicate WELL, but they should still at least know how to put together a coherent idea when asked about it.
@@bezerkoid I think they mean for the campaign setting books. Not for the show itself. He definitely collaborates with people to create Exandria, though.
In the behind the scenes footage for Dimension 20 s1, they actually talk about how saturated the dnd actual play scene already was AT THAT TIME, and how they felt they had to do something to distinguish them from others, especially critical role, and that’s why they had minis and play sets for all the first seasons until corona forced them to change the format.
Oh boy am I ever glad that our group is as solid as it is. Sure we had a few heated moments here and there but we’ve had the same dm for over 5 years, one player dm’d a campaign for a couple years through for the main dm to have a crack at playing. We have a couple others who dm a one shot here and there. We all have slightly different play styles but one thing we agree on is that we’re all co collaborators to the world creation. Our dm challenges us but the golden rule of “fun first” is always very present. I’ve never had the displeasure of having to deal with toxic people like this and I pray I never do.
Internet sleuths you gotta find this twitch for me. Obviously we shouldn’t harass this guy or his players, but I just want to watch this crazy manipulation
I can help narrow it down, with the information provided by the OP this stream might've taken place between the release date of PF2e and the release of Secrets of Magic playtest, so this stream occured between August 12th 2019 and September 8th 2020
Update: I think it might be "World of Evindale", the videos from two years ago have been deleted, I used to watch them and suddenly they disappeared, you can find them here on YT searching the name above, if you go to 0:30 of the video titled "Curiosities | Crossroads S1•E25" you can see the tiers of donations are the same described by OP.
@@Saruva_Eduardo Luckily they are not too big and I am shocked that they still want to do this. I do see, with their past history, that they get new players coming in. Maybe the DM learned his lesson or is using a different source for the modules...
I totally agree about trying to compete with the big dogs, that is not something you should expect. My group streams D&D every week and we don't have a huge viewer ship, but we did grow a small following and it's fun to play for the people that are invested in our story and also that they join us and talk about their campaigns and characters in our discord. We are a small community, and we are happy with that. Never once, when we started did we expect to become CR because we know they were all professionals with a fanbase of their own before they even started this. I think when it comes to streaming, if you do it to have fun and enjoy the community, then that's perfect, if you expect more, you will just get frustrated. Success shouldn't be the goal, it should be the biproduct of doing something you enjoy doing.
I’m honestly not sure how they had any donations. Maybe it was one of the most successful small streams, and somehow the DM wanted to milk things even further, causing it to crash and burn? None of them were getting paid out of the donations? Wow, that guy is incredibly lucky that he has anyone to play with.
You would be surprised by the amount of money some people are willing to give to streamers... Even if they were nobodies... It could have been donations from friends the DM knows that wanted to support them.
Whenever people want to be the "next Critical Role", they forget two crucial things: Every member of critical role has been (voice-) acting professionally for YEARS before the show started. They made it before CR became a thing, and a whole lot of them having honed their craft this way goes into the show. Also, they have all been friends and/or lovers who'd been gaming together for years before the show started. They know each other inside and out. These two things, and yes, Matt's skill as a DM and writer for the campaigns, make the perfect storm that is CR. When people play and stream their games, they always want to catch lightning in a bottle again, disregarding the fact that what happened with CR was due to a unique combination of individuals and chance. That's also why some people keep spitting poison about the show, because they want to see it fail. Because they think THEY deserve at least a part of the success because they've been playing D&D at least as long. Thing is, nobody deserves anything like that (not even because of "diversity") and you can work as hard as you like if you don't bring the creativity, the connections, the chemistry or just sheer luck to the table. Life is unfair. Be yourself, play with your friends, be glad for what you have and whatever happens happens.
Great vid as always :D On the edition change, I will just say that changing from Pathfinder 1e to 2e midway seems like a fair move. Including the increase viewer count reason. 2e is way easier to understand for someone who doesn't know Pathfinder at all, which is the majority of people. It also seems easier to run and improves on a lot of stuff, so there is good reason to change editions, even if you can't change all your previous episodes too. Considering the alternative is to keep going with 1e for who knows how long, I'd say that even with the general negatives that kind of change can bring, I feel it's still a good move. *To make it clear, I mean that for Pathfinder 1e to 2e.* Other systems would require each their own separate analysis. *Now it's baffling to me how the DM can't even keep themselves in check for their own sake.* I imagine losing your players who have been in this world since day one would be akin to losing your lead actors in a movie series. Imagine if Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint just went up and quit midway through Harry Potter. Just how much of the most loyal part of your audience would you think you'd lose? And all that for what? Pride? *There is being horrible, and then there is being dumb. I feel this is both.*
Ah, so the whole donations part explains all of the weird behaviour. He doesn't want a high level party because that would mean more ways to get out of dangerous situations. If the party can succeed on their own, he can't get the money from the donations. So he needed the party to stay low and thus make the threats more realistic, while impossible without donations. Having the party be at high level kicked him into this god-level frenzy of threats to make impossible situations, and made the whole charade obvious. He essentially designed an impossible game and made the audience pay to fudge the rolls. I can't believe someone would try to sell that as entertaining. Literally pay-to-win dnd lol
@@koalabro6118Not even pay to win, even people who do pay to win would not pay for that, since it's a chance. Unless you have thousands of dollars to waste, no one is going to constantly spend money on chances that you might never get again, like characters dying. With pay to win, you get what you paid for; here, it was not guaranteed.
The worst part is, he could've kept the threat going by doing even more tougher encounters. Low level and low skills means less flashy and epic fights, even if they are impossible.
I had a fun idea for a D&D stream that I started recently! It's a little unorthodox though. I'm writing my own homebrew one-shots every month (wow so original), but I stream every week leading up to it, and have the viewers collaborate on 1 or 2 of the characters in the creation process. I also invite the viewers to play the one-shot live. I'm still working out the kinks, but the first game went well! I'm not focusing on building a following right now because I want to make sure the system is fun and interesting first.
“These shows did not start from the bottom.” Critical Role started as a one-shot birthday game for Liam O’Brien that grew into a longer campaign just because everyone was having a lot of fun with it, and someone with clout watched a few sessions and convinced them to make their games public and began directing an audience their way for a while before hiring them on to livestream. And even when they were hired on, the production quality was absolutely bare-bones compared to what it is today. The set and audio production back then? Woof. I can still recall the slight echo in hearing Matt and the others speak because they didn’t have great microphones, sitting around a plain, boring table in an empty, bland room. Yet nobody in the audience cared about that. Everyone watching was just too enamored by the story they all were crafting, creating insane and memorable moments along the way, and how much fun they were having doing it. From cheap, geeky cosplay to _fantastic_ cosplay and cinematography to an animated opening, and now some excellent cinematography for the latest opening with a gorgeous set that puts that empty, cramped little room into perspective. It literally started as a simple little thing done in private for fun. That’s about as “at the bottom” as you can get in terms of audience traction regarding its beginning. And it primarily gained its massive following because everyone from the DM to the players were just being their genuine selves, having an absolute blast playing some D&D, and sharing it with the world. If it didn’t have that, few people would be watching it today - even with the hosting of Geek & Sundry in its early days. They did start at the bottom, got lucky once, and earned everything they gained from there. A better message to anyone looking to make their D&D games public: Don’t go into it expecting overnight success. Don’t drain your funds on production value. Don’t quit your jobs over it (just treat it as a hobby at first. Only _consider_ making it your profession if you gain enough fans to support you enough to fund a fair wage for everyone involved). And don’t do it if you can’t at least make your games happen once every 2 weeks. Consistency is important in any recurring medium. If you can do regular sessions, then just be genuine, try to have fun, and be open to sharing it with anyone who’ll watch. Maybe one day you’ll get lucky and catch the eye of a production company. Maybe you won’t (you most likely won’t - you usually need to know someone with connections to something like that). The audience will come on its own regardless - small at first, but steadily growing over time, usually years. And so long as you have fun and don’t take it so seriously that you turn into a jackass like the DM in the story, everything should go relatively ok. Everyone having a good time should be the paramount goal of something like this. And if it ever comes to a point where you all can get paid for it - bonus.
I think CritCrab's comment though still pointed out that once CR went public, it had some organized backing in Geek & Sundry's support... which eventually the series grew into its own individual corporate set up with merchandise, an animated series, official tie ins to D&D through Wizards of the Coast and 3rd Party material (I have Explorer's Guide to Wildemount and Tal'Dorei Reborn on my shelves for example), etc. So while there was a "starting at the bottom with a private game for friends" origin for Critical Role, its public face has almost always had some level of organized backing even if very barebones at the start. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on CR's origins, since I really only know it through the TV series and the books and haven't watched any full episodes of the original livestream itself; but its still clear at least now that it benefits from an organized sheen an amateur streamer is not going to recreate overnight.
@@jacoblyman9441 They did have that support of a popular production company. I’m not going to argue against that. As I addressed, though, even with that it wouldn’t have gained the audience it has if they weren’t just being their genuine, goofy selves and having fun playing D&D. Watch a few sessions when you have the chance. Even before the game starts, they get silly and mess with and rib each other. They don’t take it too seriously. Everyone is just there to play a game and have fun, and the audience feels that and they have fun, too. Sometimes Matt flubs a line or mistakes are made and a detail is a bit off and they all kinda collectively resolve it or laugh at the error. They don’t try to portray themselves as perfect or professional. They may be voice actors, but at the table they’re just best buds trying to have a good time. If even one of them was like the DM in the story CritCrab was telling, it wouldn’t be as engaging or endearing to watch and its audience wouldn’t be as big as it is now.
Since watching this channel, I’ve learned that I have had toxic player behaviors in the past but the advice here has also taught me how to be a better player (and also that maybe I was being toxic to a toxic DM)
An old art teacher once gave me a great piece of advice that can also be applied to DMing: "Never compare yourself to anybody else." If you focus on trying to do what Matt Mercer does, then you're only going to blind yourself to what *you* can offer. It's okay to experiment and take inspiration from the big-name DMs and streaming groups, but ultimately, your players are there to play *your* game. Forget about trying to be the next Critical Role, Dimension 20, High Rollers or whatever and just have fun, in your own way.
Also, don't turn your actual play stream into a pay-to-win game (where the P2W mechanics don't even grant any meaningful benefit) without even paying your collaborators. That's called a "scam".
I think people forget that Critical Role didn't just pop up over night, they played long before they started streaming.. and they didn't get overnight succsess. They were playing from home without any lights/sound effects/studio even when they started their first campaign.. Not to mention they're all voice actors/do improv as a job, and have access to networking most wouldn't have.. and even with their show being now massive.. Most watchers are watching the backlog because they can't dedicate the 4 hours each week to a new episode (Currently on Episode 19 of C2). It's a niche genre, if you want to copy the formula.. you're going to need to be likable/fun/not annoying ect ect ... Even when you watch CR, it looks basic with the cameras, you don't need to go all out.. You might even fail for a year before you get anywhere, or you just might not get anywhere haha
Imagine monetizing your dice rolls... I could see it with a charity one-shot, but otherwise not in a million years. Now, imagine doing something that stupid and greedy, and not even paying your players.
One of my favorite D&D streams (that consistently got thousands of viewers) was literally the quality of a screen recorded zoom call, and I loved every minute of it. You don't NEED a professional set-up to stream your game
my D&D party stream our games, not because we expect anyone to watch but for ourselves. we have a lot of players and not everyone can make it on game day so we record it all for folks to catch up on during the week when they have the free time.
THIS VIDEO WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE PUBLIC YET OOF
Edit: Yeah this video is not gonna be doing numbers. Please hit buttons to keep this video circulating. 🦀🙏
I enjoyed it anyway crablord :3
Lmao that's what I thought
Now this is swaggers.
luv u still!
At least the mistake is funny?
What do you mean none of them were paid. That DM was scraping money off the walls and demanding service from his players and he didn't even throw them a single stack? Audacious.
Don't you know? They were being paid in "exposure" god this guy was such a slimeball.
@@thejkittymews9045 The only thing exposer gives you is cancer or frostbite. If he demands they act on his stage then so shall he pay them to do so.
@@kamidarko yeah that's my point for putting exposure in quotes Mason. I was being factious. That would have been the most likely answer he would use to defend himself.
Yeah that's ludicrous and ridiculous. The whole thing is a collaborative effort and they should of all gotten paid since it's stated to be for a show/entertainment.
They paid him on Patreon...
The Hard Truth of the "If you dont give the audience a reason to care, they wont..." Is the best truth bomb that many people gloss over when they start streaming/posting on YoutTube. I appreciate all of your content Mr. Crab!
Yup, the reason people cared about Critical Role at first was that they had the draw of all being notable voice actors on some pretty famous productions. So they had the advantage of a sort of built in fanbase as well as job experience that played into what they were doing.
If you're some random, you don't go in expecting to be "the next critical role" you go in trying to do your best and see if it works.
@@piranhaplantX roll play has internet famous twitch gamers, dimension 20 has internet famous comedians, and acquistion incorporated had chris perkins a notable figure in the dnd community. Big dnd shows usually have people who have some fame pr notoriety before streaming. It's why people tune in.
@@JamesBond-mm3iu Yeah, that's what I was getting at here. There are a lot of delusional people who think they'll make it big because of DND and become the "next critical role" but Critical Role is people who were already big, and their show became big because of this, and in turn grew the hobby.
So basically my point was that a lot of people go in with twisted logic like this.
@@piranhaplantX Really also Matt Mercer is an effect. Anyone who's tuned in for 20 minutes of him doing NPCs and managing the table is generally impressed enough to get sucked into watching the rest of the game.
One of the most cruel things one can say to an aspiring creative is "Just do your best and you'll succeed." There are just so many variables to every kind of creative work - putting up with bad bosses, getting lucky sending your work in to potential publishers/producers/etc., people using back channels with bribes or worse to get the job or deal they want. Or just "Yeah, this person's dad owns the company, so what can ya do". And when it comes to creative performance stuff, it's probably even worse...
In summary, if you want to be a star, be prepared for daggers coming at you from every direction while you climb a mountain one-handed. And then, if you do make it, expect to ask yourself "What was that all even for...?"
Also in the context of CR and Dimension 20 (big fan of the later) the players and DMs are experienced actors and well experienced with improv. This is why they entertain me and get a good laugh or have me at the edge of the seat because their performances keep me hooked. This is something people should understand cuz Mercer and Mulligan are great DMs cuz of their backgrounds but as well they have a good chemistry with the players which is important as it shows they enjoy what the DM throws their way and the DM loves how they react and throw back at em.
Exactly. My favorite roleplaying channel is Me, Myself, and Die and it's definitely Trevor's acting and experience as a player that makes the stories he tells so engaging despite the fact even he doesn't even know which way the story will go and needs to tie things together on the fly.
With you on dimension 20 being awesome! I just can't get into critical roll, I genuinely find it too cringe to watch. I know they're actors and voice actors but I find them to be far too extra and over the top.
CR is fundamentally different from any real D&D game because it is loosely scripted as well, home games are going to be very different
I'm glad that what got me weaned on dnd content was the Oxventure crew. Just the huge amount of shit they did plain wrong in their first fair few outings set me with some easy realistic pointers on how to deal with things. Especially the DM's general beleaguered attitude has led to me being *generally* pretty good at rolling with punches.
Sadly, I suspect my slight railroad-y tendencies to be due to the way their campaigns work, which is pretty railroaded within small confines of freedom, not unlike an immersive sim. I would like to try my hand at setting a more freeform campaign, but currently they're hot on the tails of the BBEG and I'm looking forward to wrapping it up (as are they, I'd assume) so what can I do?
@@fatterperdurabo42069 lmao what no, you have any proof?
I wasn't expecting a video today, and apparently neither did CritCrab.
“We’re going to be the next critical role!” Might as well be code for “I don’t know how to plan jack shit!”
Ah I see what you did there
its a weird vibe when people say " I want this channel to be the next [popular relevant content creator]" It's different when you say " My inspiration is [content creator] but I wanna do my own thing" or " I like the vibe of this content creator and its helping me know what I want for my stream" or something like that. Maybe it's just me.
@@Nicooriia The latter means they want to make something along the same vein as something they really like. It means they know growth doesn't come fast and easy without absurd luck.
The former means they have no clue what they're doing, they just saw someone else's success and want it for themselves. They'll copy and assume ripping off someone big means their own version will immediately become the same thing. They'll be too blinded by the pie in the sky to see what they're actually making. Reality is just a distraction from the unrealistic dream
One can, by all means, decide to fly to Mars and terraform it in one go, all by the power of one's farts.
Doesn't mean it's going to happen~
Critical Role didn't even plan to be what it became. And still get amazed themselves at how big they've become. They had been playing for ages just for a fun friendly get together. The only intention being to play D&D because they loved it. Even when they were approached and started doing it, they thought it might just run 10 sessions and fade away. They didn't think people would be that into it, to the point that they were shocked and didn't understand why the fans had pizza sent to them. They never expected having their own company, merch, an animated series, comic books, etc. And they didn't plan or expect that Even though they were starting off with some backing, and were well known, and had industry connections.
The worst thing I've ever done as a DM:
"Hey guys, I can't really plan out a session if only half of our group is active in the conversation of when we can all play together. So I'm gonna put a halt on our campaign until we can so I can get my weekends back instead of waiting for a game that can't start because two out of five players showed up."
Starting to feel less shitty after hearing these stories
I mean. That's reasonable? Idk why you feel bad
Don't feel bad about that,that is healthy.
Been on that boat my fellow dm. and you do feel like an asshat for saying it, but it needed to be said. ^^
My DM ran a series of one-shots with our existing characters when a few members couldn't make it for a few weeks. It was actually a pretty refreshing break from the campaign.
@@namAehT That's a good idea!
That 'none of them were getting paid' hit me the same way 'we're out of coffee' hit the passengers in Airplane 2. If I'm helping you make something on a regular basis and you want me to act to a certain professional standard, it better be helping put food in my fridge.
Yeah, this is worse than someone 'paying people in exposure', because it seems like none of the players, or at least not OP and their wife, cared much about the face, they just wanted to play D & D. What the DM was trying to pay them in was his **own** exposure.
I was in a band a number of years ago that played a few gigs around town and released a cd. All the money went to the songwriter and none to any of the other band members.
Fun times. Good motivation.
@@adambooth7755 even worse, they were actively paying *him* with donations and patreon.
The reliance on fan support is what would have made me leave the game. "I'm sorry you want me to pray that there's a big enough hype train that I can make these impossible saves? Nope I'm good"
I'd get up and leave the table on-stream without a word ^^
Or just hang up.
Yeah it's not worth it at all.
Two solutions:
1- Leave ASAP as suggested. Without a word between sessions or on-stream, doesn't matter too much.
2- Go full shoot. Call out the DM on his bullshit in front of the fans. I mean, come on, Jackass asks the players to do the job of entertainers and pay him so they can do their jobs. And then he has the audacity to ask the audience to pay a hundred bucks just to avoid TPKs? Just that is enough material to get pipebombed to hell. Damage the DM's product/brand beyond no repair.
I think it's an interesting to introduce audience interaction into the game, but this was just a terrible implementation of the concept. Kinda just nuts.
"if i wanted ridiculous idiotic checks that are over inflated, then i'd just go play kingmaker or wrath of the righteous."
The "Matt Mercer Syndrome" is jealousy.
We aren't Matt Mercer. You wont BE Matt Mercer. Nobody should ever expect you to be Matt Mercer.
Be you, as a DM. Don't have some obstacle for yourself- Just do what you do, and if you want to storytell like someone else, practice it.
Be chill and support your DM's as long as they arent the devil incarnate. Fun in a game is up to you.
Matt Mercer doesn’t want people to be Matt Mercer!!
Why? I fucking hate Critical Role and everything connecting to it. I'd rather guzzle down a litre of petrol and jump into an active volcano than become something like Matt Mercer
I will never be Matt Mercer, and I never want to be Matt Mercer, I'm DMing how I want to DM, goofy voices, pointless yet entertaining dialogue, joke items that have no purpose (such as my iconic 'Potion of Punch Yourself in the Face'), Matt may be an amazing DM, but he's not the kind of DM I am, and he's not the kind of DM I want to be.
If you want to be like Matt, you have to do an analysis of what makes his style appealing to you. Then shamelessly steal and develop those qualities in yourself. Is it confidence? Is it world building? Is it his positive outlook regardless of what his "friends" do, his ability to laugh along as they disrespect every name ever? Is it always saying, "So..." or "toothy maw"? Figure out what it is about his style that attract you to it, and implement that.
Don't pretend to be Matt Mercer. But practice over years, as he has, and you'll become something better: yourself with skills.
i would end up being the reverse matt mercer
This is probably the third time I hear you talk about someone with the entrepreneur syndrome, the stories end up being different, but it always starts with a basement dude who wants to compete with industry giants by making a throne out of their own friends.
That is beautifully well put
Making a throne out of their own friends is a bar.
“This is the tale of how a crab accidentally made a video public to soon. Roll comments.”
but are you reporting for duty?
Ah so a Glory Story then.
For those who are planning to be the next Matt Mercer, here’s a word of advice:
You are never going to be Matt Mercer. Ever. So quit while you can and just do your own thing instead.
Yes, but I know a guy who can spend like 3 hours to worded out a wish spell. To avoid all theoretical possibilities of backfire.
I'm pretty sure simple no, isn't enough for that type of people.
Well, Arcadum's stuff temporarily got bigger than critical role
Then it all crashed in a few days when several of the female players revealed how he interacted with them in private
and whos matt mercer
search him up and boy would i end up being a reverse matt mercer not doing weird voices not making anyone laugh and pretty much quite most of the time and they would be stupid hard if you did like it i would tell you to git good
Personally, i think emulating matt mercer is fine. But you should use the emulation as something to build off of.
The thing is, there's already a Matt Mercer.
It's like with games that tried to be WoW, Minecraft or Fortnite.
Trying to ape a great thing/person without trying to stand out will just get everyone to dismiss you as a copy cat.
At least try to be your own thing, like how Lord of the Rings Online is basically WoW, but in Middle Earth. That's why it's doing ok, because there are enough people who love WoW and Tolkien.
They could have tried to be Critical Role, but with Shadowrun, or something.
After seeing the title “D&D VIDEO” Honestly expected this to be an April fools joke so much so I checked the calendar.
I swear people forget that the people on Critical Role are not just yahoos who got lucky. They were all very well known voice actors prior to the show. I guarantee there are people who heard that among others, Roy Mustang and Lust from Fullmetal Alchemist, Donetello from Ninja Turtles, and Ellie from The Last of Us were starting a DND stream with Jojo from Jojo as the DM and thought that sounded awesome. So they were willing to give a few hours to give the stream a go
Not to mention all of Matt's other roles. Plus Travis was Knuckles the Echidna for years by this point.
Not to mention matt mercer played one of the main and fan favourite character in the biggest anime of the past 10 years
"none of them were getting paid" that would have been my first question when he said it was a show, " oh, when do I get paid?"
Nah nah nah, you first do 1 session to get integrated into the group, and then get everyone's contact info. If you confront the DM with the others present, then they can't just get rid of you without it appearing very bad to the other players.
Gotta unionize before engaging 'the boss'
The one sentence horror story that will haunt tabletops for years to come; "We're going to be the next critical role!".
I've been creating/partaking in tabletop projects for a long time, and I've never been as frightened as the day I was told: "We're gonna be the next D&D - No: even better!"
By a random dude with literally no tabletop experience ever
The perfect video title doesn't exi- Crit Crab: Hold my beer.
(Incase he changes it the title was D&D Video)
That's the best title ever
I had the notification for it as that but was listed private at that point
False advertising. They were playing Pathfinder.
@@emeraldtaco
PF is D&D3.75e
at least until PF2 came along
@@ChibiKami If pathfinder is 3.75e
Then pathfinder 2 is DnD 6e.
"A 30ft sphere of annihilation with a gravitational pull around it"
So, a tiny black hole?
A really great quote I heard, about starting UA-cam but I think it applies to streaming as well.
"If you want to start doing this because you want to get rich and famous, then don't because you won't. But if you want to start doing this because you think you're really going to love doing it, then do it. And you just might make a little money along the way"
Especially considering how little money you even get from making vids, and that's by years ago standards. They've dropped in recent years. By now you'd be lucky to pay a singular fuel payment with a year of videos
Matt Mercer has been a blessing and a curse to the dungeons and dragons community
As someone who runs a dnd podcast (dungeons r us) I didn't go into it to compete with the big dogs. It's more therapy for me. It gives me something to look forward to at the end of my "real" job. I don't really mind if no one listens, although I hope people do and enjoy it but at the end of the day it simply bring me happiness.
I had my own horror story of a dm, doing things such as trying to convert me constantly to just being a huge railroady and a "If you don't play it my way, hit the highway" kinda guy, to the point he would exclude telling me class abilities when I was first starting out, like half of Fighter's abilities, making us weaker overall. This was without player consent as well. So it is kinda nice knowing that most people have had their fair share of bad Dm's or players and we can all have a laugh about it afterwards.
I don't necessarily think it's a fair share of bad DMs and more a fair share of bad people. These things are literally almost all issues these people have imbedded in their personality.
@@Mediados I mean, yeah it was, I knew him personally and he was not a fun person to say the least.
What exactly do you mean by convert, too?
this DM presented this as professional production and didnt offer to PAY his players??? thats pretty cold, especially since during the stream he was having money flowing in. so he just took all the donation money during the Twitch stream and pocketed it all for himself. wonder how his watchers wouldve felt about that if that got out
Sounds like it's still going on, and now it's out.
People very much do not understand that CR is a reality TV show.
I'm just still surprised by the p2w donation system lol. Imagine running a campaign so badly that even your players donate to try to figure out wtf to do. xD
@@ratburgler And best part was it not working even still. Yeah. That's when you know it's bad.
Pay 2 Win can be excusable if the prices are good enough (as in, very cheap), and, the biggest reason, not mandatory. But the moment you make it mandatory is fucked, especially if it is not a one time only purchase like DLC. Because not only is it unfair against the people who don't pay, it also is unfair against the people who do pay, who should be getting rewarded for actually caring enough to spend money.
And then we have what happened here where the Pay 2 Win wasn't guaranteed. That is automatic manipulation and exploitation with no excuse.
A good comeback might have been "Professionals tend to be paid salaries."
Well, it's always easy to come up with one in hindsight... not so much in the heat of the moment.
IS THIS A COMMON THING?! Holy shit I'm having flashbacks to a show I was on and the DM ended up melting down about professionalism and respecting their creativity and shit.
It's both common and very rare at the same time.
People trying to be some famous person: absolutely.
Putting in this much work into a stream: varies.
DMs being horrible and doing batshit insane stuff: oh yeah, big time.
Bro, you can not just throw in the fact that they weren’t paid at the end like that, Jack is such a floorlicker🫢
Hi CritCrab, I have been watching you for a while, and I just wanted to say that you are a great UA-camr and I love you content. 🙂
Are you a bot?
No
@@mostlysure1077 African, or European?
@@liambradbury5079 SCHEIßE
All jokes aside, I really think the favorite color question would be the one that would throw me the most... there are so many good ones, it's like picking your favorite movie. You want to say something serious then you remember holy grail/the color indigo exist.
My first dnd experience was joining a curse of Strahd game a friend was dming with afew buddies.
I wasn't aware until 3 hours into the first session that he was streaming it on twitch.
It only lasted 3 sessions because in he didn't read the book and decided to wing it with a dungeon and fill it with references to a video game I never played.
After we all struggled to work out his nonsensical puzzles he called us all stupid and idiots and just showed us the way out.
I blew up on him in dms after the game and we never played again.
Streaming without your permission is pretty bad
After hearing that viewers could donate to help the party? It clicked to me this guy was trying to be the next critical role so he can rake in the dough more than anything.
They only did it the one time as I recall but it was established as a non canon one shot for charity. And even that they never did again cause we have horrible ideas and it got pretty weird.
@@kagato23 Do you know which channel it was? Morbid curiosity demands I find it to see the mess
If people at your table are paying you to DM, at that point you NEED to take criticism fairly
I would never play in a game where the DM is paid to DM. Puts far too much pressure on them to "get it right". Then again, I don't play in wargaming tournaments where there's a cash prize or play e-sports computer gaming. I suppose it's a similar situation...
wait the players were paying him? i understood that the donations came from the stream viewers, not from the players... so he basically was setting the challenges so high for them to spend money to overcome them? speaking of pay to win, but in D&D XD
@@wizzolo They collectively paid for his stream setup so yeah, he'd probably wringle more money out of them when he suddenly "wants to upgrade equipment" just so he can get paid over time.
Hello King Crab! You have been a source of knowledge and wisdom on exactly what not to do in a D&D game‐- and sometimes, what you SHOULD do in a D&D game. A constant source of great pointers for 5e folks and tabletop gamers everywhere, by exhibiting bad examples.
You're doing God's work, and bringing widespread attention to joyless, overbearing, hateful nerds. Godspeed, Crablord.
Whenever one of our players can't attend a session we just say their character got a "stomach bug" and is stuck on the toilet
We joke that they are just t-posed behind the rest of the party, following them around
"A new group is literally 5 clicks away"
Not if you're outside the US timezone 😥
hmm, allowing watchers to involve themselves in the game by donating to help or buff the PCs or NPCs could be an interesting mechanic if it's actually incorporated.
like, "there are plenty of gods and god-like existences out there watching you adventurers for their entertainment. if you manage to catch one's attention in particular, you might be lucky enough to receive a gift from them. upset one, and they could try and get you killed off."
Expecting your stream to be the next critical role is like starting a sports team and expecting them to go straight to the championship
Crit I can see this…
Make it private not unlisted, surprisingly I even got the notification.
Also as an actual play dnd streamer, what you should do is be like arcadum (don’t be the bad parts of arcadum), meaning that they should be different and new.
Personally I like slightly edited ~2 hour videos.
I got it as a notification as well haha
I think there's nothing wrong with doing something that other people already did but everybody should have fun first and foremost. It might be harder to get popular but it's not a job
I think all big and popular streamers started doing it as a hobby then when they got popular made job out of it
What are "bad parts"?
@@realdragon yeah of course! I’m just saying that it’s not interesting to have Vox- I mean BOX Machina
@@ZephyreSyx sexual harassment and manipulation mostly
I wish they would say who "Jack" is. Not a doxx but just the Twitch channel. People need to know about egotistical scammers like this.
that's an extremely ominous title lmao
Like a creepypasta if someone ever made one for D&D.
It wasn't corporate money that gave Critical Role a head start. It was the fact that each member of the cast already had a pretty huge fan following before even starting the show from their acting work. So when they started streaming the D&D game it was a lot of "holy shit my favourite voice actor plays D&D? I gotta see this". If you are someone who has 0 fans it's going to be realllly hard for you to gain an audience and keep people engaged.
i'm sure the marketing and production budgets didn't hurt either though
Geek and Sundry at the time were corporate money. They gave them a platform as well as allowed the players to take part in other shows. The difference is that they weren't in it for a cash grab then.
What people forget is that Matt Mercer has more resources at this disposal than your average DM.
I started my channel about 7 months ago. We do "live play" roleplaying games (D&D, etc.), but honestly, I didn't even expect the small audience we have. Don't get me wrong, I put a lot of effort into making the game fun, but the first few episodes were bumpy as anything new is. We're much better now, but, you know, there is a big gap between Mercer and me and always will be. See, I built my channel to document us playing. I have been playing since 1984 and have had no history to go back and see us playing. Then, during Covid, we lost one friend to that situation and I'm still sad about it. Then, another one of my friends almost died when he had a heart attack. It was then that I decided to start our channel so that we could have documentation that we existed. I have no delusions that we'll be famous or anything, just that one day, hopefully years from now, any one of us can go back and experience playing again or even that maybe one of our kids will (or grandkids). I think you need to do things that feed your soul, and if you do that it doesn';t really matter what your audience size is.
The mere fact you guys are doing it to just document your adventures is worthy of more audience, because that's the kind of thing that got CR into a household name. They just decided, hey, let's stram 5e, and then from there it snowballed. You just wanted to document your games to enjoy them later with your friends and to show the world you existed. That's a noble intention.
@@thefiresworddragon927 Thanks for the feedback!
You should definitely categorize or make your videos into playlists based on "has good ending" and "has bad ending"
Trying to start from nowhere and be the next CR right out of the gate is like filming your friends play basketball and think you're the next NBA.
Also, anyone figured out which stream this is?
I really want to know the answer to this.
Same :(
I'm curious too
Pretty sure most of the stories on this channel aren't real. It's always second or third hand information. So even the guy telling them has no accountability. At that point this guy can just make up whatever he wants and then just say, "well that's what the anonymous poster wrote....". Yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Been a dm for just over a year now
But been playing the game for over 18 years
My first campaign well has been a shit show of op characters as I thought only good loot is the best loot
So me wanting to be like Matt Mercer is gonna take years of doing the dm position but then again I rather do my own thing as it’s my story not Matt’s
I appreciate the pared-down commentary to let the story take center stage. Make a great point and move out of the way, unlike others who prattle on and on with more of the video being waxing philosophy and not just interrupting but obliterating the flow of the story
Crit crab, thank you for helping me dodge a bullet, by teaching about red flags. I reconized the that guy, and that I was not comfortable with the dm deciding everyones spells and abilities, not even letting us assign our own stats, and noped out. I believe I was rescued by crab, from a fate worse than no DnD
If you wouldn’t mind, could you tell us the story? Sounds interesting.
@@elderliddle2733 not much to tell. My brother wanted to start a campaign and i was excited. We got there, and right away, one player started loudly talking about how much he hated tge setting, and premise, and universe, etc, because "swords are supperior to blasters".
We all tried to suggest ideas to work with him, but in the end, switched to a more dnd setting, usind a system that isn't made for it.
So, we all had to come up with new chatacters on the spot, while the guy went on about being a ninja samari, and how in history, ninja samari were the greatest warriors of all time, and japanese katanas are the greatest weapons ever, and black belts are obtained by blindfolding students and attacking them with sharpened katana.
Meanwhile, my brother was having players copy down characters from a book, but ee could totally name them and decide on a background.
I decided to play a half orc who wanted to be a druid, but couldnt, so instead she became a cleric for the wild mother.
My concept is a shy, sweet character, who grew up isolated in the woods, and has no idea people can be dishonest.
Well, by brother filled out the character sheet for me, and now she's an op healer op strong character who is also a bard? For reasons?
No one has been allowed to pick their spells or abilities, the ninja samari is mad he has to use a fighting style that isnt karate, because everything else is inferior. And I'm annoyed because I really wanted to have more plant and weather based spells, and instead, I have magic missile and fireball.
To be fair to my brother, he did let me try and home brew a mechanic, and he is trying to do things he thinks people want. But he gets very stressed, very easily after a traumatic head injury, and trying to explain our characters to him is more information than he can take in at once.
I love my brother, and he is trying, and he has always loved table top, and I want him to have that experience, and have fun, and a group he can spend that time with every week. He really lights up talking about it, and is going to the liberary today to print out things for the game. I might still pop in occasionally to support him, but I'm moving soon and it's my excuse to bow out without many hurt feelings.
@@fleurpouvior2967 it’s going to crash and burn. I appreciate you not wanting to hurt his feelings but he’s going to be frustrated when people disinvest. You might want to consider a very carefully placed warning that most people who get into DnD like having control over all these things. Your brother sounds like he has a very set idea of how things should
Go and is not going to be prepared for when they end up doing something else instead.
@@kagato23 I'm kind of letting the chips fall where they may. I sort of expect it to fizzel out. Last session apparently was more hanging out chatting and eating chips than anything. I think I'm hoping that even if it doesn't end up in much game play, he can at least build a group of friends and get out of the house to have fun with others.
I have played (and DMed) plenty of one shot games with pregenerated characters, that's in no way a red flag. as long as stuff is established in advance and everybody agrees on it it's fine.
I was just watching one of your videos lol, love your content! Keep it up :)
Man this campaign and how possessive this DM was about their creation makes me super thankful of my DM and how her world has so many batshit things that everyone is willing to just do what seems most fun (even if that ends up being massive chaos that makes her think on her feet and to her credit she's yet to fail that challenge). It always starts off sort of like a Real Time Fandub. For the first few sessions in the campaign we sort of bumble around until we find the through line, and then go hard in following the vague overarching through lines we create/discover. They also statted gods so that we could very much fight a god (and given our track record, kick their shit in at a high enough level) if we wanted to. Nothing was off the table so long as it made sense in-universe, and it "making sense" in universe is "does everyone like this idea and is it hilarious to the DM"? We seemed to always piss the main drow goddess off with our antics (which was especially hilarious in the campaign where we were _helping_ her without her asking) so that became a running joke in our group.
As someone fairly familiar with Pahtfinder 2nd ed, I say "fuck this GM." Setting a DC at 60?! The suggested DC for a level 25 character is 50. so setting a DC at 60 for a level 17 character is patently absurd.
Yea I've done a bit of dnd as well. A DC of 60+ at level 17 is only really getting beat by min-maxing or shenanigans.
Shitty marketing scheme by a dude who couldn't hold a job so he scams friends instead.
Oh yay a new video, I found your channel like 4-5 days ago and been binging pretty much every video(in random order) while at work and got done listening to the last video(Karen dethrones a god) yesterday.
Love them all, especially when you put that extra flair into the speech.
This certainly is a D&D VIDEO
Hmmmm this *dnd video* is made of *dnd video*
Commenting for the crabgorithm, love your videos and I've learned a lot from them on situations to avoid both as a player and a DM
Ah yes: "D&D VIDEO"
Crab: releases video too early.
5k crab army: delicious
This DM let the greed get to his head, and wanted it to be fun but professional. Unfortunately, he made it nearly impossible for the players to have fun with a DC 60 roll. Given that everyone else couldn't make the roll and the person who could had to use everything just to clear it, it shows they weren't having fun anymore.
I get it, Matt Mercer is a great DM, but even he'll say "don't be me, be yourself". Don't make impossible tasks then expect things to be fine afterwards.
Woo! The first CritCrab video with PF 2e! Can't wait to see... oh, horrorstory. I'll go sulk in the corner as I listen to the story.
I'm really curious if anyone managed to figure out which actual play this is about since it's apparently still going 👁️ this is pretty damning
I'm gonna comment here just so I can see what it is if someone comes forward to say
@@pattyofurniture694 same here
:O
I thought it would be pretty easy to just load up twitch and maybe see what kind of pathfinder streamers are out there..... jeezus christ theres a shit ton of ttrpg streams these days.
I too am really curious. please somebody give us an answer.
I feel like people forget CR launched its first livestreamed episode TWO whole years into their campaign.
So you could already feel their attachment to the characters and it drew you in more than anything. Along with beings fans of whatever VO brought a crowd in too.
An example would be if Pokimane and Co started DnD'ing sundays they would reach CR levels within a year, random nobodies wont so they gotta build a following
DM was Milking the stream, pocketing all of the money and living the players high and dry.
One of my favorite dnd "podcasts" is a presidents AI dnd series. Each episode is only 10-20 minutes, but the series is amazing with both the plot and the bickering between the caricatures of the presidents. The point is, you've got to be prepared to make your own story with your own original twists and know what you are doing with the resources you have.
Heya crab, thank you for just being there, this is what really got me into ttrpgs and I just wanted to thank you. (not that it matters but I have been here since 5k and it is cool to see how much you have grown)
that last comment "they didn't even get paid" fucking sent me. they had to invest in sound equipment, huge time commitment, had to get donations from the audience, all for this guy to make money from?? i love playing dnd and have spent money for a campaign before, or helped out our DM, but it was never asked of me, and i did it because i genuinely enjoyed it.
The other day my DM said he wanted to stars streaming games in the future for fun and u think it's cool. He said it's mostly gonna be for us to go back and watch the games for our own purposes (eg looking for hidden lore and stuff like that) and that if people watch good for them. We play online so it really isn't a hassle for us to do which is nice unlike actual plays.
I trust him to not fuck us over like these people because he actually is a really good dm
Show him this video as a precaution of what NOT to do when starting up.
That sounds like it could be fun!
If he wants the footage, it's possible he could record it privately?
People like this really need realistic goals to achieve, it's practically impossible to be the next CR or any popular TTRPG channel for the reason stated by Crit Crab. My DM only streams our game not just for whoever wants to watch it but to store the session later as a video. Just for any of us players to watch the good times we had or it's a good reminder of events that happen during the sessions.
at some point we need one massive collab between all the dnd horror stories, i mean critcrab, crispy, drake, everyone.
there was JoCrap's Guide to DMing. Guest stars from everywhere
@@ChibiKami i know, but i mean one with all the horror story youtubers specifically.
I love these stories. Makes me appreciate my dm and group so much more
Real crabs remember when this video was called “D&D VIDEO”.
Hey CritCrab! Love your videos. Watching them actually convinced me to make the push to find a group and get back in D&D, which I did. Thanks CritCrab!
Ya know, it’s fine to look up to Matt Mercer and Critical Role as inspiration, but never more than that. No one is ever going to be those people. They are professional voice actors with lots of funding.
As a brand new, budding DM, I idolize them, but I know I’ll never be able to be a Matt Mercer, and I’m okay with that. As long as the game is fun for everyone and we get to tell our own story, I’m cool with not being able to do fun voices or earn money doing something like this. And I wish other people were too. There’s nothing wrong with not being Critical Role.
"No one is ever going to be those people. They are professional voice actors with lots of funding."
Also, when they started out, they had access to a studio and Geek and Sundry's audience, which made the whole thing a bit of a free bet. They also got to transition from being a janky home-game-but-online, where the audience sent them pizzas, to being a professional production at their own pace, and with no established predecessor to be unflatteringly compared to.
It probably also helped that they got their 'big scandal' out of the way in the first couple of months.
People apparently have forgotten that d&d was a thing LONG before cr was.
Hey, don't sell yourself short my man. Acting experience, professionalism, money, that might make CR a better entertainment product for a mass audience but it doesn't have a lick of anything to do with making a fun, memorable, meaningful RPG experience for you and your friends. Matt's a talented guy and has the experience to facilitate a ton of fun for the other players at the table, but he's not Jesus out of Nazareth and isn't so towering above any other GM who's ever lived.
I heard it said once that the greatest games ever played, the greatest worlds ever built, were played in basements and the back rooms of game shops across all these decades by little friend groups who have no evidence of them besides drawers of scribbled notes and fond reminiscing years after the fact. At the end of the day, and as a new GM I ask you to take this to heart, there's one job you have: Do your best to make sure everyone at the table has as much fun as they can in the boundaries of the game. There is no other metric that matters, there is nothing else that you have to do to be an amazing GM on par with anyone who's ever done it.
If you ever in your life have everyone walking away from a session with smiles on their faces, telling you that it was one of the most fun things they've ever done and that they'll be remembering it for months and months, then it doesn't matter if you didn't have professional lighting, it doesn't matter if you cobbled the story and NPCs together from sticks and tissue paper, it doesn't matter if your miniatures were actually pencil erasers, it doesn't matter if you can't do the voices and can only change your tonal inflections slightly, and it doesn't even matter if nothing plot or lore important at all happened. If you've ever just made everyone really, really enjoy their time while you were running a game then congratulations, you have officially become just as good a GM as Matthew Mercer himself, because that's literally what it's all about and don't let any knuckleheads repeating the words "actor" and "money" at you tell you otherwise.
@@01subject oh-for sure, there are still ways to make an RPG fun for your player. I’m only saying that no one is going to be Matt Mercer and Critical Role. They already exist. They exist the way that they do because they have access to equipment, they’re talented actors, all that jazz. You can still have a fun time without someone putting on a hundred voices or having creepy lighting, or flickering torches or background music. Fun is what you make it.
They didn't start with all that finding and the funding doesn't create the story Matt puts together. Someone else said he has help writing. You don't write a campaign you develop a basic outline of what you want to do and then your players take control and you adjust on the fly. That's all Matt. He's just really talented and creative.
Kinda dunny how i found out about good ol'matt marcer through the resident evil franchise where he voices leon
There's another streaming show I like to watch on Twitch called Rotgrind (a Dark Souls-inspired world made by the same people behind If the Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device). They've handled donations a bunch of different ways, but most recently they've had it so different characters can be donated to in order to give them Hero Points, which are used primarily for rerolls. Critically, though, the game is balanced around the assumption that players are going to be getting Hero Points on a semi-regular basis, and just as critically, *every player gets their cut of the donations.*
Compare with this guy, who made massive demands of his players but gave little in return, and effectively rebalanced his entire campaign to squeeze cash out of the audience- solely to get the money *he* would enjoy. Rather than treating his players as artistic collaborators, he treated them as unpaid interns who should be grateful just to get the experience of playing with him. Unsurprising, then, that the whole thing fell apart.
Change My Mind: You can't be "The Next Matt Mercer" by trying to copy Matt Mercer. There is only one Matt Mercer and its Matt Mercer. Be yourself.
The next Matt Mercer is going to be someone who does something that Matt *doesn't*
I am 100% sure that with how common the first name "Matthew" and surname "Mercer" are, there must be more than one Matt Mercer.
Instead be better than Matt. He's on record wanting other DM to out do him. Don't worry about being Matt, worry about being better than Matt knowing that Matt himself would back you 100%
Me: *watching the video* “Nothing unusual here, just run of the mill DM douchebaggery.”
CritCrab: “Oh and to top it all off, none of them were getting paid.”
Me: “THAT FIEND!”
I've watched some twitch streams of D&D games and honestly I enjoy many of the ones with no big production value. Not all the stuff that Critical Role and the big names have. Just some decent video cameras, and mics and everyone sitting around a table playing the game. Like the old days of going to the back room of the game store and watching a group play, only with a wider audience online. They really just need enough money in equipment so we can hear them well, and see them fine. So long as the story is actually good enough.
4:00 or he just really wanted to emulate Critical Role and they have new characters for new "seasons"
I love to passively listening to these as do work or if I try to write some characters for a session. While It sucks to see any session fall apart, stuff like this does help others spot red flags and understand why somethings do or don’t work
Matt Mercer is a good DM, but he is also backed by multiple writers, every player is a professional, and everyone gets paid.
Don't expect a DM to be Mercer, don't expect your table to be Critical Roll.
You can have fun at a table without those things, you can have fun at a table playing different styles. Some groups are very into RP, some are more wargames, and some are just an excuse to relax, throw some dice and drink a beer with pals.
The only thing I EVER expect from my players is having the ability to communicate. Either communicating their plans to me on how combat is gonna go on their turn, communicating how their character is behaving, even communicating with each other in the party without my interference. I understand that some people tend to be shy and dont know how to communicate WELL, but they should still at least know how to put together a coherent idea when asked about it.
Is he backed by writers? For Legend of Vox Machina, sure.
@@bezerkoid I think they mean for the campaign setting books. Not for the show itself. He definitely collaborates with people to create Exandria, though.
@@Feelosopher__ ah yes, that's true!
@@bezerkoid he has help... MM has never tried to say otherwise... But he is the main writer and creator
In the behind the scenes footage for Dimension 20 s1, they actually talk about how saturated the dnd actual play scene already was AT THAT TIME, and how they felt they had to do something to distinguish them from others, especially critical role, and that’s why they had minis and play sets for all the first seasons until corona forced them to change the format.
Fantabulous title
Oh boy am I ever glad that our group is as solid as it is. Sure we had a few heated moments here and there but we’ve had the same dm for over 5 years, one player dm’d a campaign for a couple years through for the main dm to have a crack at playing. We have a couple others who dm a one shot here and there. We all have slightly different play styles but one thing we agree on is that we’re all co collaborators to the world creation. Our dm challenges us but the golden rule of “fun first” is always very present. I’ve never had the displeasure of having to deal with toxic people like this and I pray I never do.
Internet sleuths you gotta find this twitch for me. Obviously we shouldn’t harass this guy or his players, but I just want to watch this crazy manipulation
I can help narrow it down, with the information provided by the OP this stream might've taken place between the release date of PF2e and the release of Secrets of Magic playtest, so this stream occured between August 12th 2019 and September 8th 2020
Update: I think it might be "World of Evindale", the videos from two years ago have been deleted, I used to watch them and suddenly they disappeared, you can find them here on YT searching the name above, if you go to 0:30 of the video titled "Curiosities | Crossroads S1•E25" you can see the tiers of donations are the same described by OP.
@@Saruva_Eduardo thank you internet detective. Ten thousand blessings upon your house
@@Saruva_Eduardo Impressive work! You’re 100% right.
@@Saruva_Eduardo Luckily they are not too big and I am shocked that they still want to do this. I do see, with their past history, that they get new players coming in. Maybe the DM learned his lesson or is using a different source for the modules...
I totally agree about trying to compete with the big dogs, that is not something you should expect. My group streams D&D every week and we don't have a huge viewer ship, but we did grow a small following and it's fun to play for the people that are invested in our story and also that they join us and talk about their campaigns and characters in our discord. We are a small community, and we are happy with that. Never once, when we started did we expect to become CR because we know they were all professionals with a fanbase of their own before they even started this. I think when it comes to streaming, if you do it to have fun and enjoy the community, then that's perfect, if you expect more, you will just get frustrated. Success shouldn't be the goal, it should be the biproduct of doing something you enjoy doing.
What's your series? 😊
@@bezerkoid oh we’re called 4initiative we usually stream on twitch on Sunday nights stream4initiative
@@Roxxolotl amazing!
I’m honestly not sure how they had any donations. Maybe it was one of the most successful small streams, and somehow the DM wanted to milk things even further, causing it to crash and burn?
None of them were getting paid out of the donations? Wow, that guy is incredibly lucky that he has anyone to play with.
The way OP makes it sound, the players probably contributed mostly to donations
You would be surprised by the amount of money some people are willing to give to streamers... Even if they were nobodies... It could have been donations from friends the DM knows that wanted to support them.
Microtransactions in D&D.........I genuinely thought it would be impossible
Whenever people want to be the "next Critical Role", they forget two crucial things: Every member of critical role has been (voice-) acting professionally for YEARS before the show started. They made it before CR became a thing, and a whole lot of them having honed their craft this way goes into the show. Also, they have all been friends and/or lovers who'd been gaming together for years before the show started. They know each other inside and out. These two things, and yes, Matt's skill as a DM and writer for the campaigns, make the perfect storm that is CR.
When people play and stream their games, they always want to catch lightning in a bottle again, disregarding the fact that what happened with CR was due to a unique combination of individuals and chance. That's also why some people keep spitting poison about the show, because they want to see it fail. Because they think THEY deserve at least a part of the success because they've been playing D&D at least as long. Thing is, nobody deserves anything like that (not even because of "diversity") and you can work as hard as you like if you don't bring the creativity, the connections, the chemistry or just sheer luck to the table. Life is unfair. Be yourself, play with your friends, be glad for what you have and whatever happens happens.
You know its going to be a good one when crab has angy eyes at the start
"...And to top all of this off, none of then were getting paid."
Why is that the part that drives home what a d!ck the GM was?
It's just the proverbial shit cherry on top of the shit cake.
Great vid as always :D
On the edition change, I will just say that changing from Pathfinder 1e to 2e midway seems like a fair move. Including the increase viewer count reason.
2e is way easier to understand for someone who doesn't know Pathfinder at all, which is the majority of people. It also seems easier to run and improves on a lot of stuff, so there is good reason to change editions, even if you can't change all your previous episodes too. Considering the alternative is to keep going with 1e for who knows how long, I'd say that even with the general negatives that kind of change can bring, I feel it's still a good move. *To make it clear, I mean that for Pathfinder 1e to 2e.* Other systems would require each their own separate analysis.
*Now it's baffling to me how the DM can't even keep themselves in check for their own sake.* I imagine losing your players who have been in this world since day one would be akin to losing your lead actors in a movie series. Imagine if Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson and Rupert Grint just went up and quit midway through Harry Potter. Just how much of the most loyal part of your audience would you think you'd lose? And all that for what? Pride? *There is being horrible, and then there is being dumb. I feel this is both.*
Ah, so the whole donations part explains all of the weird behaviour. He doesn't want a high level party because that would mean more ways to get out of dangerous situations. If the party can succeed on their own, he can't get the money from the donations. So he needed the party to stay low and thus make the threats more realistic, while impossible without donations. Having the party be at high level kicked him into this god-level frenzy of threats to make impossible situations, and made the whole charade obvious.
He essentially designed an impossible game and made the audience pay to fudge the rolls. I can't believe someone would try to sell that as entertaining. Literally pay-to-win dnd lol
Pay-2-see-someone-else-win
@@koalabro6118Not even pay to win, even people who do pay to win would not pay for that, since it's a chance. Unless you have thousands of dollars to waste, no one is going to constantly spend money on chances that you might never get again, like characters dying. With pay to win, you get what you paid for; here, it was not guaranteed.
The worst part is, he could've kept the threat going by doing even more tougher encounters. Low level and low skills means less flashy and epic fights, even if they are impossible.
I had a fun idea for a D&D stream that I started recently! It's a little unorthodox though.
I'm writing my own homebrew one-shots every month (wow so original), but I stream every week leading up to it, and have the viewers collaborate on 1 or 2 of the characters in the creation process. I also invite the viewers to play the one-shot live. I'm still working out the kinks, but the first game went well!
I'm not focusing on building a following right now because I want to make sure the system is fun and interesting first.
“These shows did not start from the bottom.”
Critical Role started as a one-shot birthday game for Liam O’Brien that grew into a longer campaign just because everyone was having a lot of fun with it, and someone with clout watched a few sessions and convinced them to make their games public and began directing an audience their way for a while before hiring them on to livestream.
And even when they were hired on, the production quality was absolutely bare-bones compared to what it is today. The set and audio production back then? Woof. I can still recall the slight echo in hearing Matt and the others speak because they didn’t have great microphones, sitting around a plain, boring table in an empty, bland room. Yet nobody in the audience cared about that. Everyone watching was just too enamored by the story they all were crafting, creating insane and memorable moments along the way, and how much fun they were having doing it.
From cheap, geeky cosplay to _fantastic_ cosplay and cinematography to an animated opening, and now some excellent cinematography for the latest opening with a gorgeous set that puts that empty, cramped little room into perspective.
It literally started as a simple little thing done in private for fun. That’s about as “at the bottom” as you can get in terms of audience traction regarding its beginning. And it primarily gained its massive following because everyone from the DM to the players were just being their genuine selves, having an absolute blast playing some D&D, and sharing it with the world. If it didn’t have that, few people would be watching it today - even with the hosting of Geek & Sundry in its early days.
They did start at the bottom, got lucky once, and earned everything they gained from there.
A better message to anyone looking to make their D&D games public:
Don’t go into it expecting overnight success. Don’t drain your funds on production value. Don’t quit your jobs over it (just treat it as a hobby at first. Only _consider_ making it your profession if you gain enough fans to support you enough to fund a fair wage for everyone involved). And don’t do it if you can’t at least make your games happen once every 2 weeks. Consistency is important in any recurring medium.
If you can do regular sessions, then just be genuine, try to have fun, and be open to sharing it with anyone who’ll watch. Maybe one day you’ll get lucky and catch the eye of a production company. Maybe you won’t (you most likely won’t - you usually need to know someone with connections to something like that). The audience will come on its own regardless - small at first, but steadily growing over time, usually years. And so long as you have fun and don’t take it so seriously that you turn into a jackass like the DM in the story, everything should go relatively ok.
Everyone having a good time should be the paramount goal of something like this. And if it ever comes to a point where you all can get paid for it - bonus.
I think CritCrab's comment though still pointed out that once CR went public, it had some organized backing in Geek & Sundry's support... which eventually the series grew into its own individual corporate set up with merchandise, an animated series, official tie ins to D&D through Wizards of the Coast and 3rd Party material (I have Explorer's Guide to Wildemount and Tal'Dorei Reborn on my shelves for example), etc. So while there was a "starting at the bottom with a private game for friends" origin for Critical Role, its public face has almost always had some level of organized backing even if very barebones at the start. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on CR's origins, since I really only know it through the TV series and the books and haven't watched any full episodes of the original livestream itself; but its still clear at least now that it benefits from an organized sheen an amateur streamer is not going to recreate overnight.
@@jacoblyman9441 They did have that support of a popular production company. I’m not going to argue against that.
As I addressed, though, even with that it wouldn’t have gained the audience it has if they weren’t just being their genuine, goofy selves and having fun playing D&D.
Watch a few sessions when you have the chance. Even before the game starts, they get silly and mess with and rib each other. They don’t take it too seriously. Everyone is just there to play a game and have fun, and the audience feels that and they have fun, too. Sometimes Matt flubs a line or mistakes are made and a detail is a bit off and they all kinda collectively resolve it or laugh at the error. They don’t try to portray themselves as perfect or professional. They may be voice actors, but at the table they’re just best buds trying to have a good time.
If even one of them was like the DM in the story CritCrab was telling, it wouldn’t be as engaging or endearing to watch and its audience wouldn’t be as big as it is now.
The best name for a video about dnd.)
Wow. Generic title. Description says "sauce." I got here wicked early.
Since watching this channel, I’ve learned that I have had toxic player behaviors in the past but the advice here has also taught me how to be a better player (and also that maybe I was being toxic to a toxic DM)
An old art teacher once gave me a great piece of advice that can also be applied to DMing: "Never compare yourself to anybody else."
If you focus on trying to do what Matt Mercer does, then you're only going to blind yourself to what *you* can offer. It's okay to experiment and take inspiration from the big-name DMs and streaming groups, but ultimately, your players are there to play *your* game. Forget about trying to be the next Critical Role, Dimension 20, High Rollers or whatever and just have fun, in your own way.
Also, don't turn your actual play stream into a pay-to-win game (where the P2W mechanics don't even grant any meaningful benefit) without even paying your collaborators. That's called a "scam".
I think people forget that Critical Role didn't just pop up over night, they played long before they started streaming.. and they didn't get overnight succsess. They were playing from home without any lights/sound effects/studio even when they started their first campaign.. Not to mention they're all voice actors/do improv as a job, and have access to networking most wouldn't have.. and even with their show being now massive.. Most watchers are watching the backlog because they can't dedicate the 4 hours each week to a new episode (Currently on Episode 19 of C2). It's a niche genre, if you want to copy the formula.. you're going to need to be likable/fun/not annoying ect ect ... Even when you watch CR, it looks basic with the cameras, you don't need to go all out.. You might even fail for a year before you get anywhere, or you just might not get anywhere haha
not gonna lie, i kind of want to know the name of the stream to see how much of a dumpter fire it actually was lol
Hey, CritCrab! Thanks for the spotlight on the post! Love your takeaways.
As a clarification: the money spent on the rolls came from the audience, not player pockets (thank God)
Yo, but whoever that DM was, I hope all the players cut ties with him for that bullshittery.
Imagine monetizing your dice rolls...
I could see it with a charity one-shot, but otherwise not in a million years.
Now, imagine doing something that stupid and greedy, and not even paying your players.
I would say this is a parody, but Gamigo exists
EA wants to know your location.
So season 2 was the DM trying to kill them so her could write them out
One of my favorite D&D streams (that consistently got thousands of viewers) was literally the quality of a screen recorded zoom call, and I loved every minute of it. You don't NEED a professional set-up to stream your game
my D&D party stream our games, not because we expect anyone to watch but for ourselves. we have a lot of players and not everyone can make it on game day so we record it all for folks to catch up on during the week when they have the free time.