It Michele had more of a mature look she probably would have won, I think the pink and the ponytail made her look like a little girl and then the next year she started wearing a bun and more interesting costumes that gave her a more grown up look. As we know a lot of judging had little to do with the actual skating.
Great skating performance from Michelle, but loved even more Nicole Bobek's shocked reaction at the end, and Dick & Peggy's commentary!!...Miss them commentating on figure skating....The 90's and early 00's were the best years of figure skating being televised on ABC...Miss those times....:(
She wasnt robbed of a medal. She was 3rd in the long which was right since Chen had much more artistry, and Bonaly didnt have stronger artistry but got the nod for her triple-triples and bigger jumps. She beat Bobek in the long at worlds as she should have, but Bobek got the bronze due to winning the short. Kwan totally should have beat Bonay for 4th in the short, but it wouldnt have made a difference.
I feel the same. I stared watching and recording in the late 90s and I feel the sport jst isn't the same since 2006, or even before that. I hate NBCs coverage.
Can someone explain how on earth she finished 2nd here. I saw Tonia's performance and she clearly should have beaten this. Those marks are way too high. First off what is with 5.8s and 5.9s for technical. She had 3 mistakes- falling on a 2nd triple lutz, two footing a triple loop, and stumbling going into her first triple toe. And 5.8s and 5.9s for artistry is too high for this skate too, she didnt even have great artistry too.
Bottom line, Michelle was simply a better skater than Tonia. Even at 14, she had better flow and polish in her elements than Kwiatkowski who was 10 years her senior. The devil is in the details. Tonia heavily pumped her back during her crossovers and stroking to gain speed, her jump landings were scratchy and at near standstill with no flow, her edges were shallow and not secure (evidenced in the wild landing on her 3toe and the bobble during her footwork sequence), and she had little to no stretch in her spins. Michelle's basics were so much cleaner. Her cleanly landed jumps all had better flow and security in the landing edge than Tonia, her stroking and edging had more control, and she had better speed and stretch in her spins. These are seemingly small but significant qualitative differences in technical skill and mastery of the skating blade. Then you add the fact that Michelle landed 5 triples to Tonia's 4--including a flip and salchow which Tonia respectively fell on and did not attempt--and it's easy to see why the judges placed her over Tonia. She was simply better in every respect. There's a reason why Michelle went on to win 9 National titles, 5 World titles and 2 Olympics medals, while Tonia's highest achievement at the elite level was 2nd at Nationals.
Roger, clearly you are not to judge on how Michelle Kwan should be scored. Michelle Kwan is not someone who been ice skating around the rink during this competition. This was her moment as a competitor trying to make to the top of her class. Michelle has passion, artistry and grace. She’s not someone who plays hockey or trying to make a pass to reach the goal post. It’s about her meeting the challenges as a competitive figure skater.
@@rolandgreen7484 Her daughter would've gotten results if she had skated better. When Tonya was on she won - 1991 US Nationals, 1991 Skate America. She may have been underscored when she was younger, it happens to most skaters, but after 91, it was no one's fault but her own that she didn't place higher in competitions.
Peggy Fleming loved Michelle and hated Nicole Bobek. You can tell how pissed off she is her nightmare Nicole won and not her beloved Michelle. Even Tonia Kwiatkowski would have been easier for Peggy to digest and stomach than Nicole.
Getreakandchoke has to see for herself how physically alike michelle kwan IS with her sister Karen. Even if Karen skated a bit differently from her younger sister Michelle. Michelle and Karen both have excellent sense of humor.
Karen was such a beautiful and elegant skater. Moreso than Michelle at this point, and even equal to Michelle after she became the "artiste". It is a shame she was such a shitty jumper so could never progress, as she had the artistic ability and other elements.
@skatefan9495 I wouldnt have put Michelle more than .1 ahead on the first mark and Tonia I would have had atleast .1 ahead on the 2nd mark. So Tonia would have been ahead for me for sure. I think the reason Michelle was so overmarked and placed on the team was she was already touted as the U.S teams future while Tonia was an old broad they just wanted to retire already.
This committee has a strong political side. They Owed it to Kwan. The year before she came in 2nd place behind Harding. They had Just interviewed her about going to the Olympics with Tonya. Seconds later Kwan and the interviewer still seating next to each other made the announcement that Nancy was going instead of Kwan. Kwan was right there hearing it being announced with no regards of Kwan's feelings. That was so disrespectful. They owed it to her.
Regardless our respective opinions Tonia had 2 judges place her over Kwan, 4 judges had Kwan ahead who tied or had Kwan ahead on the 2nd mark. The clearly off scoring was 3 judges who had Kwan .1 behind Tonia on the 2nd mark but .2 ahead on the technical mark. The technical mark is more objective, and Kwan did not deserve anymore than .1 higher on the technical mark. She landed only 1 more triple, and the same number as Bobek who had bigger jumps and better elements.
The media and the skating world had decided that Michelle was the chosen one. The only reason she didn't win this was because of the fall on the second lutz. I grew to be a Kwan fan but I hated her in 1994-1996.
@@rolandgreen7484 Yamaguchi wasn't over-scored, there just wasn't that much competition in the U.S. for her. Nancy lacked consistency and Tonya lacked artistry. Kristi was way more of a complete skater in comparison.
To suggest Kwan deserved to win the title over Bobek is ridiculous. Kwan's marks were way too high for her performance as it was and Bobek was the clear winner of this event. Kwan winning would have been a scandal.
Yes you are right. I love Michelle, but honestly she didnt even really deserve to beat Kwiatkowski at this event. As always Kwiakowski getting the short end of the stick from the judges due to lack of hype, not being very talented, and being a late bloomer, and uncontroversial nice girl figure.
I had not seen this competition until now. I disagree with you. I always thought your analysis, overall, was right on regarding other clips and skaters. However, you seem to have a bit of a hang up when it comes to Kwan, at least in 1995 and 1996. Comparing this and Tonya's free skates, I felt Kwan's was stronger. Her flow out of jumps was, by far, superior, and I found Tonya's artistry forced and clunky. Plus, Tonya's pumping back during cross overs drives me crazy. Kwan earned the spot.
I hated the way Tonia wore his hair in a tight bum athough atleast she didnt do that here. She did have more maturity and polish than Kwan at t his point though and landed only 1 less clean triple so I would probably put her ahead. Her spins were a bit stronger than Kwan's too.
She did not deserve to make the team this year. 2 judges had her behind Kwiatkowski. 3 other judges had her .1 behind Kwiatkowski on the presentation mark but .2 ahead on the technical. She only did 1 more triple than Tonia (5 to 4) so no more than 1. on the technical mark was justified and had those 3 judges given only .1 higher on the technical mark she would be behind.
Why is Michelle skating against an adult? That makes no sense? Of course Michelle would lose because she was so young. Why didn’t they just separate them into groups? That would’ve made more sense.
This was before the age laws in figure skating were put into place. Michelle became a senior around age 12, which would never happen these days. Same with Tara.
Michelle so young here - the making of a champion.
Frank Carroll is such a dignified and classy coach.
Yay! This was the only Michelle National long program from 93-05 that was not on UA-cam. Thanks!
Spectacular, Michelle! Thank you. So fun to watch! God Bless.
I think Michelle Kwan is an awesome skater
It Michele had more of a mature look she probably would have won, I think the pink and the ponytail made her look like a little girl and then the next year she started wearing a bun and more interesting costumes that gave her a more grown up look. As we know a lot of judging had little to do with the actual skating.
She wrote about that very point in her book!
You can see the skill already but waay over marked. .5.9 for tech and artistry is ridiculous.
Great skating performance from Michelle, but loved even more Nicole Bobek's shocked reaction at the end, and Dick & Peggy's commentary!!...Miss them commentating on figure skating....The 90's and early 00's were the best years of figure skating being televised on ABC...Miss those times....:(
This was before Dick became a pretentious dick, and after Peggy no longer was, so the rare best time for this crew.
Say what you will but one thing she's always had over every other skater is fight!! That's a champion!!
Michele is so pretty in pink
Thanks for posting. I'd never seen this performance before. At World's that year, she performed it perfectly and was robbed of a medal.
She wasnt robbed of a medal. She was 3rd in the long which was right since Chen had much more artistry, and Bonaly didnt have stronger artistry but got the nod for her triple-triples and bigger jumps. She beat Bobek in the long at worlds as she should have, but Bobek got the bronze due to winning the short. Kwan totally should have beat Bonay for 4th in the short, but it wouldnt have made a difference.
I feel the same. I stared watching and recording in the late 90s and I feel the sport jst isn't the same since 2006, or even before that. I hate NBCs coverage.
She was gifted to even be at this Worlds this year so she should consider herself lucky.
Can someone explain how on earth she finished 2nd here. I saw Tonia's performance and she clearly should have beaten this. Those marks are way too high. First off what is with 5.8s and 5.9s for technical. She had 3 mistakes- falling on a 2nd triple lutz, two footing a triple loop, and stumbling going into her first triple toe. And 5.8s and 5.9s for artistry is too high for this skate too, she didnt even have great artistry too.
Reputation. If both Michelle and Tonia wore bags over their heads Tonia would have won silver for sure.
Bottom line, Michelle was simply a better skater than Tonia. Even at 14, she had better flow and polish in her elements than Kwiatkowski who was 10 years her senior. The devil is in the details. Tonia heavily pumped her back during her crossovers and stroking to gain speed, her jump landings were scratchy and at near standstill with no flow, her edges were shallow and not secure (evidenced in the wild landing on her 3toe and the bobble during her footwork sequence), and she had little to no stretch in her spins. Michelle's basics were so much cleaner. Her cleanly landed jumps all had better flow and security in the landing edge than Tonia, her stroking and edging had more control, and she had better speed and stretch in her spins. These are seemingly small but significant qualitative differences in technical skill and mastery of the skating blade. Then you add the fact that Michelle landed 5 triples to Tonia's 4--including a flip and salchow which Tonia respectively fell on and did not attempt--and it's easy to see why the judges placed her over Tonia. She was simply better in every respect. There's a reason why Michelle went on to win 9 National titles, 5 World titles and 2 Olympics medals, while Tonia's highest achievement at the elite level was 2nd at Nationals.
Roger, clearly you are not to judge on how Michelle Kwan should be scored. Michelle Kwan is not someone who been ice skating around the rink during this competition. This was her moment as a competitor trying to make to the top of her class. Michelle has passion, artistry and grace. She’s not someone who plays hockey or trying to make a pass to reach the goal post. It’s about her meeting the challenges as a competitive figure skater.
@@rolandgreen7484 Her daughter would've gotten results if she had skated better. When Tonya was on she won - 1991 US Nationals, 1991 Skate America. She may have been underscored when she was younger, it happens to most skaters, but after 91, it was no one's fault but her own that she didn't place higher in competitions.
@@erika6651 Tonya won this very competition the year before 1994. Kwan was second.
Peggy Fleming loved Michelle and hated Nicole Bobek. You can tell how pissed off she is her nightmare Nicole won and not her beloved Michelle. Even Tonia Kwiatkowski would have been easier for Peggy to digest and stomach than Nicole.
Getreakandchoke has to see for herself how physically alike michelle kwan IS with her sister Karen. Even if Karen skated a bit differently from her younger sister Michelle. Michelle and Karen both have excellent sense of humor.
Karen was such a beautiful and elegant skater. Moreso than Michelle at this point, and even equal to Michelle after she became the "artiste". It is a shame she was such a shitty jumper so could never progress, as she had the artistic ability and other elements.
@skatefan9495 I wouldnt have put Michelle more than .1 ahead on the first mark and Tonia I would have had atleast .1 ahead on the 2nd mark. So Tonia would have been ahead for me for sure. I think the reason Michelle was so overmarked and placed on the team was she was already touted as the U.S teams future while Tonia was an old broad they just wanted to retire already.
This committee has a strong political side. They Owed it to Kwan. The year before she came in 2nd place behind Harding. They had Just interviewed her about going to the Olympics with Tonya. Seconds later Kwan and the interviewer still seating next to each other made the announcement that Nancy was going instead of Kwan. Kwan was right there hearing it being announced with no regards of Kwan's feelings. That was so disrespectful. They owed it to her.
Regardless our respective opinions Tonia had 2 judges place her over Kwan, 4 judges had Kwan ahead who tied or had Kwan ahead on the 2nd mark. The clearly off scoring was 3 judges who had Kwan .1 behind Tonia on the 2nd mark but .2 ahead on the technical mark. The technical mark is more objective, and Kwan did not deserve anymore than .1 higher on the technical mark. She landed only 1 more triple, and the same number as Bobek who had bigger jumps and better elements.
The media and the skating world had decided that Michelle was the chosen one. The only reason she didn't win this was because of the fall on the second lutz. I grew to be a Kwan fan but I hated her in 1994-1996.
@@rolandgreen7484 Yamaguchi wasn't over-scored, there just wasn't that much competition in the U.S. for her. Nancy lacked consistency and Tonya lacked artistry. Kristi was way more of a complete skater in comparison.
In the warmup I heard she had a 3salchow/3loop planned... perhaps she missed her 3loop because she threw it in as plan B?
No that was just false commentary. She probably meant the triple loop. Kwan has never done that combo at anytime in her career.
To suggest Kwan deserved to win the title over Bobek is ridiculous. Kwan's marks were way too high for her performance as it was and Bobek was the clear winner of this event. Kwan winning would have been a scandal.
Yes you are right. I love Michelle, but honestly she didnt even really deserve to beat Kwiatkowski at this event. As always Kwiakowski getting the short end of the stick from the judges due to lack of hype, not being very talented, and being a late bloomer, and uncontroversial nice girl figure.
I had not seen this competition until now. I disagree with you. I always thought your analysis, overall, was right on regarding other clips and skaters. However, you seem to have a bit of a hang up when it comes to Kwan, at least in 1995 and 1996. Comparing this and Tonya's free skates, I felt Kwan's was stronger. Her flow out of jumps was, by far, superior, and I found Tonya's artistry forced and clunky. Plus, Tonya's pumping back during cross overs drives me crazy. Kwan earned the spot.
I hated the way Tonia wore his hair in a tight bum athough atleast she didnt do that here. She did have more maturity and polish than Kwan at t his point though and landed only 1 less clean triple so I would probably put her ahead. Her spins were a bit stronger than Kwan's too.
MIchelle Kwan couldn't do a proper layback to save her life. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that is why the judges gave the nod to Nicole Bobek.
In 1995 yes 3rd was appropriate but in later years Michelle earned every 2nd or 1st World Championship she was labored to win
.
@@electrictroy2010 , MK deserved every win she got. Here, 2nd was appropriate.
@@rolandgreen7484 I'm sure some will say the same about you. Sounds like you are projecting.
She did not deserve to make the team this year. 2 judges had her behind Kwiatkowski. 3 other judges had her .1 behind Kwiatkowski on the presentation mark but .2 ahead on the technical. She only did 1 more triple than Tonia (5 to 4) so no more than 1. on the technical mark was justified and had those 3 judges given only .1 higher on the technical mark she would be behind.
Why is Michelle skating against an adult? That makes no sense? Of course Michelle would lose because she was so young. Why didn’t they just separate them into groups? That would’ve made more sense.
kkstar 12 Tara skated against adults her whole career and won nationals, worlds, and the Olympics.
This was before the age laws in figure skating were put into place. Michelle became a senior around age 12, which would never happen these days. Same with Tara.
Michelle *deliberately* left juniors to enter adult competition. It was her choice
.
Two groups? What nonsense!! Geez!