Bring back the old brown wylex consumer unit . 2 screws for every connection, lives neutrals and tails . No flimsy caged terminals. Also put ferrules onto meter tails , this would stop the splaying of the individual strands . Hager supplied tail ferrules with their consumer units years ago . They were clearly ahead of their time
With tails I always flatten a bit with pliers, terminate, and wiggle/re-tighten a couple of times. And another one: when doing a board is tighten as you go, but always to a full check of every terminal top left to bottom right before the lid goes on. I will admit until recently I haven't been a big user of the torque screwdriver, and even now I find it a bit funny that the importance of torque values (which i do not doubt are important) is stressed for distribution boards/consumer units, but its fine to use your own judgment for almost everything else. I've seen just as many cooked terminals in electric shower units and their isolation switches as I have in any switchgear enclosure. I also have to wonder, do all DNOs and suppliers insist on using torque drivers when they put their plastic cutout and meter on the bit of cheap chipboard that goes under our nice non-combustible/torqued up consumer unit? 😂
Totally agree. The poor manufacture of even expensive equipment is appalling now days and it seems to be getting worse. Why aren't all the screw heads, on all boards and accessories deep terminals with hex heads, as per most DNO equipment? Just seems a no brainer to me.
Use an isolator with round holes specifically for meter tails. Henley blocks also have round holes. Most DNO'S and suppliers now use the Proteus double screw round hole iso.
It would be easy enough for the consumer unit manufacturers to make the incoming side of the main switch with round terminals , even if they keep the cage design .
@@dennisphoenix1 Or better still, the manufactures stop this race to the bottom with extremely shallow cage clamp terminals (expecting the installer to somehow overcome their poor design) and use round tunnel terminals, with double screws for the main switch & larger OCPDs & accessories. And the main one, for christ sake get rid of these useless plus/minus screw heads, which are always made of the softest metals known to man, and use hex heads like the DNO equipment.
@@jonanders76 I'd hope they switch to torx as it is superior to Hex since it has more surface area for the driver to catch on, that's why wera made "Hex plus" to try and solve the issue of screws rounding out.
Cross-threaded bolts. See it a lot on screw-in battery terminals. Bolt gets stuck, but you got the right torque on it, so everything must be fine right? But the cable is totally loose.
Focus on the terminal hole size. The conductor should be twisted (for stranded conductors)and folded so as to fill the hole with as much copper as practical. Visually examine every termination as you go and then check every terminal again when finished. If you making bad connections it might be time to give it up..
As a meter engineer, I lean towards flattening out the cable strands except when its really fine multi strand as it tends to get cut by the terminal screws. I cleat the consumer unit tails to the board after de-energising but before removing them from either the meter outlet or isolator. Always try and swap any single screw/clamp terminal isolator for double screw. I have a method of doing a final check for tightness before sealing up and everything gets a little tug test. Had cutouts where the DNO haven’t tightened anything.
In the old days it was rare to have problems with the old Wylex consumer units where every live and neutral terminal had 2 screws. Lots of the old wylex had wooden backs. Guess what we were told we couldn’t use them as the wood was combustible and we had to use plastic consumer units . What a joke the plastic ones were 20 times more combustible
Professionals don’t use torque because they want to, it’s because if something goes wrong they can blame the manufacturer. It’s about responsibility transfer, from the user to the manufacturer.
We have all come across the over tightened screw in a socket where one side of the screw slot has broken off! Or, one wire has acted a a fuse and blown off in a fault leaving an open ring! Over tightening a screw isn't doing anyone any favours. It's nearly as bad as under tightening! Good video again!
I always said from when torque settings were introduced to regs, it's a nonsense, because you can tighten a screw up to a certain torque, wiggle it, it will come looser, tighten it again, wiggle it, it will again come loose, copper is a malleable metal, and no amount of torque will make it 100% secure, but not moving the conductors will stabilise that movement and reduce its looseness in a terminal. I think cage terminals should also be circular to accept circular conductors.. Not square!.. Seems like mcbs/rcbos are designed solely for flat bus bar. The Conductor end clamp should be round or semi circular. Seems an easy fix to me but hey ho..
It's 2022, wheres wago RCBOs? Saves any messing about with torque screwdrivers, and if manufacturers are smart about it, it'll stop DIY DAVE putting a 3rd 2.5mm into a 32a
I agree with the extendable flip mirror to check ✔ ✅ 👌 😉 got myself one, I must say fantastic work, thankyou for your amazing and informative videos 📹.
I always find once you have put away your ends in the mcbs or main switch I always try leve my connections abt 15mins or so & more often than not you will get a good quarter turn on your connections that tip was passed on to me by an older experienced guy at the time & for me it's just a final wee nip up 👍
You have to do something really weird for WAGOs to not have near perfect contact. That's the advantage of springs over screws---they automatically re-tighten themselves.
The springs actually make very little contact, but it’s not degraded by movement (it gets better, if anything) and that makes it Enough for their rating.
Henley blocks and old Wilex boxes their twin screws, can't beat them. 55 years in the business, (now retired) never owned a torque screwdriver, there simply is no substitute for a good feel and common sense. Physics exams state, measure twice. Carpenters measure twice cut once. These values are not taught today. Youngsters today will rely too much on that click, and not really have the experience of the correct feel.
This is another reason why 100 amp DP isolators should be mandatory. Any new CU change should include a 100 amp DP isolator. Any subsequent meter change will not disturb the tails within the CU. Any meter change where there is no isolator should be forced to also install an isolator and check inside the CU main isolator for tightness. New CU or new meter, whoever's there first should install an isolator. Sadly, there's a lack of joined up thinking in the industry and too much passing the buck. Mike.
thats a properly thightened connection right there :D throw away those torque screw drivers and they wont bite you in the ass later. m12 bolt on a 300mm2 lug was tightened with torque wrench set to 80nm i was able to move the lug and we ended up using a regular wrench and tightened till it was held in place, no issues years later, as for the rating on the terminals that is a joke it will come loose within a year mostly, we can argue about it thats why maintance is important, but if you tighten it by hand good it wont come lose, if the breaker breaks when thightened all the way its a crappy construction.
In my experience as a competent DIYer and site manager, the worst places for potential fire and burn out in sockets etc that I have seen is with electric shower supplies. Found 3 now. Damn lucky that each time the fire never spread but the fittings were badly damaged. Always hard to tell how tight or not they might have been after it has all melted. One consistent thing I have found though is they were all damp with corroded wires still evident with plenty of green corrosion on the copper. Found it a couple of times in other sockets as well but more of a tripping issue than fires. So a big issue in the millions of old homes with solid masonry walls and no DPCs I guess.
The good thing with traditional UK electrical accessories and patress boxes is they tend to be made of thermosetting resins like Urea-Formaldehyde which are pretty good at retaining their integrity under exposure to excessive heat. So a loose connection on a shower circuit does severe damage to the accessory but the problem generally remains contained within the accessory and it's box. Plastic din rail enclosures (used for consumer units before the "metal consumer units" rule came in) OTOH tend to be made of thermoplastics like ABS which are much worse at retaining their integrity in overheating scenarios (though much better from an impact resistance point of view).
@@TheFool2cool good point. In the cases I have found the masonry has been damp which is why I have assumed dampness/moisture as the issue. Sometimes I have had to make the call to get the sparky to replace the in wall back boxes with surface mounted ones. I had to do the same for BT master sockets in my own house as 3 of them fried themselves before I realised the problem. Once surface mounted it was fine.
Busbar misalignment..... Love the Crabtree Starbreaker for it's plugin, impossible to screw up, arrangement..... IEEE Entrance Exam; 1. Which of the following is likely to cause a catastrophic house fire? a. The DIY rats nest, which is technically sound, and has tight connections. b. The neatest, most expensive job in the world, where no care has been paid to correctly tightening connections.
Just a question, with stranded wiring should you not default use a crimp sleeve? And a remark about torque, if find it often rather difficult to find the specs specifically on older stuff.
@@efixx Thanks for the response. Thankfully I don't deal with high current stuff, but you never know when you are going to start. Gonna start saving for a Wiha.
does anyone know the Estation Smart from Innogy and the house connection box ... 2 brass crimped cables under a U-clamp ... I saw so much bad things done by Superstar Electricians
More grist to the mill for my favourite gripes: 1. IRRESPECTIVE of the cable type ALWAYS use the right sized ferrule. Even solid core cables benefit due to the extra crush resistance. Ideally for screw terminals use a quad crimper and set the ferrule flat side up when screwing down and use a hex crimper when fitting into cage clamps. 2. Fires inside CU's would RARELY if EVER happen if a proper temp sensor of below 85° were fitted and triggering - a contactor (resettable type that consumes zero power in normal use (nc contacts) opens on a fault and will not reset except manually. No high temp ... NO fire! In the worst case even causing rcd or rcbo tripping to isolate when a temp fault occurs. 3. WHY are busbars fitted below not above the breakers where they should be? Yes I know UK breakers suck with stupid flying neutrals instead of proper double pole RCBOs and standard breakers too . Top in bottom out SHOULD be the norm not what we have now. MUCH easier to check for a single cable connection in the bottom rather than the mainly hidden busbar under insulation. At the top the busbar connections can EASILY be seen!
The problem with reliance on torque screwdrivers, IMHO, is it depends on the medium being tightened. Copper is ductile, and I think we need to encourage a common sense tug test mentality. I have experience in aviation maintenance, torque loading is normal 'steel to steel' I am not so sure with this 'copper to brass' obsession.
So much whine around strands twisting out. You guys there in UK. Have you heard anything about ferrules? Absolute fail if not installed on fine stranded wires here....
I'm being taught atm. I've been taught to always tighten terminals give the cables a good pull to check. Then once everything is finish go around for a final check as by then the copper strands should of settled in place. None of the sparkies that teach me have used a torque screwdriver or think they're worth it so long as you got half a brain and don't under torque.
Worked in the game 16 years and never used a torque screwdriver it’s a utube sparky thing. I think I seen one bloke use one once. These lads are sponsored to sell tools
Technology move on & the torque screw driver is not the cure for all problems. I've been in the game for 30 yrs and never used one. I think like most things the price of these are way to expensive plus it needs calibration after 12 months £££ I would be sticking to my screwdriver and to date I have not had to make a claim on my public liability 🤑
@@gggggppppp - 'Well your honour, I didn't think that the manufacturer's instructions would ever come back and bite me on the arse. Didn't realise how the legal system worked... '
Unguarded clamp terminals should be banned. There's no reason to use them over guarded ones, other than the manufacturer saving 1/10 penny worth of material...
So I am right after all 🤣 use torque screwdriver is a complete waste of time, as as you have just proved with the main switch demonstration, I have said before for if you put a single conductor in the terminal then double the over the ends as it gives the screws a bigger area to clamp down on . Gaz that’s what you tort your Lerner’s for 19 years and it is how you and I were tort . Fantastic video guy’s as always 👍❤️👍👍👍👍
Torx screwdriver, waste of time and dangerous. Just use a screwdriver, give the cable a little wiggle while you tighten up the cable and you will always know you got it properly 😎
proper visual inspection & then a good tug test of terminated ends always makes sense
Bring back the old brown wylex consumer unit . 2 screws for every connection, lives neutrals and tails . No flimsy caged terminals. Also put ferrules onto meter tails , this would stop the splaying of the individual strands . Hager supplied tail ferrules with their consumer units years ago . They were clearly ahead of their time
With tails I always flatten a bit with pliers, terminate, and wiggle/re-tighten a couple of times. And another one: when doing a board is tighten as you go, but always to a full check of every terminal top left to bottom right before the lid goes on.
I will admit until recently I haven't been a big user of the torque screwdriver, and even now I find it a bit funny that the importance of torque values (which i do not doubt are important) is stressed for distribution boards/consumer units, but its fine to use your own judgment for almost everything else. I've seen just as many cooked terminals in electric shower units and their isolation switches as I have in any switchgear enclosure.
I also have to wonder, do all DNOs and suppliers insist on using torque drivers when they put their plastic cutout and meter on the bit of cheap chipboard that goes under our nice non-combustible/torqued up consumer unit? 😂
Maybe if the manufacturers started to use terminal screws that dont strip before you get to the torque setting might help.
Most breakers use PZ/SL 2 slot.
And there exists PZ/SL 2 screwdriver.
@@tommymack3210 can't argue with that but I still stand on what I say about the very soft screws used by manufacturers.
@@tommymack3210 can you recommend one that is narrow enough to fit deep slots on some RCBOs please?
Totally agree. The poor manufacture of even expensive equipment is appalling now days and it seems to be getting worse. Why aren't all the screw heads, on all boards and accessories deep terminals with hex heads, as per most DNO equipment? Just seems a no brainer to me.
@@jonanders76 - maybe they do not buy into the 'over engineering' of 'potential fires' in consumer units....
Use an isolator with round holes specifically for meter tails. Henley blocks also have round holes.
Most DNO'S and suppliers now use the Proteus double screw round hole iso.
It would be easy enough for the consumer unit manufacturers to make the incoming side of the main switch with round terminals , even if they keep the cage design .
@@dennisphoenix1 Or better still, the manufactures stop this race to the bottom with extremely shallow cage clamp terminals (expecting the installer to somehow overcome their poor design) and use round tunnel terminals, with double screws for the main switch & larger OCPDs & accessories. And the main one, for christ sake get rid of these useless plus/minus screw heads, which are always made of the softest metals known to man, and use hex heads like the DNO equipment.
@@jonanders76 I'd hope they switch to torx as it is superior to Hex since it has more surface area for the driver to catch on, that's why wera made "Hex plus" to try and solve the issue of screws rounding out.
Experience is key. Efixx is a reminder. Common sense is a requirement. Nice video
Cross-threaded bolts. See it a lot on screw-in battery terminals. Bolt gets stuck, but you got the right torque on it, so everything must be fine right? But the cable is totally loose.
Focus on the terminal hole size. The conductor should be twisted (for stranded conductors)and folded so as to fill the hole with as much copper as practical. Visually examine every termination as you go and then check every terminal again when finished. If you making bad connections it might be time to give it up..
As a meter engineer, I lean towards flattening out the cable strands except when its really fine multi strand as it tends to get cut by the terminal screws.
I cleat the consumer unit tails to the board after de-energising but before removing them from either the meter outlet or isolator. Always try and swap any single screw/clamp terminal isolator for double screw. I have a method of doing a final check for tightness before sealing up and everything gets a little tug test.
Had cutouts where the DNO haven’t tightened anything.
So,why are the ferrules on cable called "bootlaces ferrules" and the ferrules on Bootlaces are called Aiglets? Just curious
In the old days it was rare to have problems with the old Wylex consumer units where every live and neutral terminal had 2 screws.
Lots of the old wylex had wooden backs. Guess what we were told we couldn’t use them as the wood was combustible and we had to use plastic consumer units . What a joke the plastic ones were 20 times more combustible
Professionals don’t use torque because they want to, it’s because if something goes wrong they can blame the manufacturer. It’s about responsibility transfer, from the user to the manufacturer.
When in any fuse box, I routinely go left to right, top to bottom to check terminal tightness. There’s usually some loose.
We have all come across the over tightened screw in a socket where one side of the screw slot has broken off! Or, one wire has acted a a fuse and blown off in a fault leaving an open ring! Over tightening a screw isn't doing anyone any favours. It's nearly as bad as under tightening! Good video again!
I always said from when torque settings were introduced to regs, it's a nonsense, because you can tighten a screw up to a certain torque, wiggle it, it will come looser, tighten it again, wiggle it, it will again come loose, copper is a malleable metal, and no amount of torque will make it 100% secure, but not moving the conductors will stabilise that movement and reduce its looseness in a terminal. I think cage terminals should also be circular to accept circular conductors.. Not square!.. Seems like mcbs/rcbos are designed solely for flat bus bar. The Conductor end clamp should be round or semi circular. Seems an easy fix to me but hey ho..
Absolutely schocking that you guys over there still use Screws on anything.. sockets,switches,light fitting,terminals in 2022.
It's 2022, wheres wago RCBOs? Saves any messing about with torque screwdrivers, and if manufacturers are smart about it, it'll stop DIY DAVE putting a 3rd 2.5mm into a 32a
I agree with the extendable flip mirror to check ✔ ✅ 👌 😉 got myself one, I must say fantastic work, thankyou for your amazing and informative videos 📹.
I always find once you have put away your ends in the mcbs or main switch I always try leve my connections abt 15mins or so & more often than not you will get a good quarter turn on your connections that tip was passed on to me by an older experienced guy at the time & for me it's just a final wee nip up 👍
There are two types of tight
1tight .
2stupid tight .
How much contact do wago connectors make with the cable compared to screw terminals?
You have to do something really weird for WAGOs to not have near perfect contact. That's the advantage of springs over screws---they automatically re-tighten themselves.
The springs actually make very little contact, but it’s not degraded by movement (it gets better, if anything) and that makes it Enough for their rating.
@@JasperJanssen The springs are just there to push the conductor against the busbar, they are not required to conduct themselves.
Boot lace ferrules should be used on all screw down terminals
Henley blocks and old Wilex boxes their twin screws, can't beat them.
55 years in the business, (now retired) never owned a torque screwdriver, there simply is no substitute for a good feel and common sense.
Physics exams state, measure twice. Carpenters measure twice cut once. These values are not taught today.
Youngsters today will rely too much on that click, and not really have the experience of the correct feel.
This is another reason why 100 amp DP isolators should be mandatory. Any new CU change should include a 100 amp DP isolator. Any subsequent meter change will not disturb the tails within the CU. Any meter change where there is no isolator should be forced to also install an isolator and check inside the CU main isolator for tightness.
New CU or new meter, whoever's there first should install an isolator. Sadly, there's a lack of joined up thinking in the industry and too much passing the buck.
Mike.
Awesome guys nice to see information like this making it out to a wider arena
thats a properly thightened connection right there :D throw away those torque screw drivers and they wont bite you in the ass later. m12 bolt on a 300mm2 lug was tightened with torque wrench set to 80nm i was able to move the lug and we ended up using a regular wrench and tightened till it was held in place, no issues years later, as for the rating on the terminals that is a joke it will come loose within a year mostly, we can argue about it thats why maintance is important, but if you tighten it by hand good it wont come lose, if the breaker breaks when thightened all the way its a crappy construction.
Spot on guys, 👍
excellent videos chaps!
In my experience as a competent DIYer and site manager, the worst places for potential fire and burn out in sockets etc that I have seen is with electric shower supplies. Found 3 now. Damn lucky that each time the fire never spread but the fittings were badly damaged. Always hard to tell how tight or not they might have been after it has all melted. One consistent thing I have found though is they were all damp with corroded wires still evident with plenty of green corrosion on the copper. Found it a couple of times in other sockets as well but more of a tripping issue than fires. So a big issue in the millions of old homes with solid masonry walls and no DPCs I guess.
I think the "corrosion" is actually evidence of long term thermal damage, I've seen it on quite a few things that have been hot for a long period.
The good thing with traditional UK electrical accessories and patress boxes is they tend to be made of thermosetting resins like Urea-Formaldehyde which are pretty good at retaining their integrity under exposure to excessive heat. So a loose connection on a shower circuit does severe damage to the accessory but the problem generally remains contained within the accessory and it's box.
Plastic din rail enclosures (used for consumer units before the "metal consumer units" rule came in) OTOH tend to be made of thermoplastics like ABS which are much worse at retaining their integrity in overheating scenarios (though much better from an impact resistance point of view).
@@TheFool2cool good point. In the cases I have found the masonry has been damp which is why I have assumed dampness/moisture as the issue. Sometimes I have had to make the call to get the sparky to replace the in wall back boxes with surface mounted ones. I had to do the same for BT master sockets in my own house as 3 of them fried themselves before I realised the problem. Once surface mounted it was fine.
Busbar misalignment..... Love the Crabtree Starbreaker for it's plugin, impossible to screw up, arrangement.....
IEEE Entrance Exam;
1. Which of the following is likely to cause a catastrophic house fire?
a. The DIY rats nest, which is technically sound, and has tight connections.
b. The neatest, most expensive job in the world, where no care has been paid to correctly tightening connections.
Wise words Paul! - tidy doesn't always mean the best.
why aren't all stranded wire termination be crimped?
would be good to see - but it doesn't happen in the domestic setting
Seen many a burnt out contactor screw terminal.....
Thanks
Just a question, with stranded wiring should you not default use a crimp sleeve? And a remark about torque, if find it often rather difficult to find the specs specifically on older stuff.
Visual inspection every time, a good light and "dentist" mirror.
Stranded wire? FERRULE IT! What?? I SAID: "STRANDED WIRE? Put a BLOODY FERRULE on it!!! PERIOD.
Tight is tight, a trained hand can feel the limit of the screw.
Worth watching 👇🏻
You'll be Shocked By How Much Torque Changes Electrical Resistance
ua-cam.com/video/EB-Zh89nHnk/v-deo.html
Crimping leg terminal solutions
Crimped ferrules on all stranded should be in the British Standard. Whatever tools you may use, remember it is a bad workman who blames his tools.
Should low voltage (12-24V) terminals also be torqued down? Is it considered good practice or overkill?
Low voltage is higher risk - higher currents and I2R losses! - we've seen LED strip installs cause fires!
@@efixx Thanks for the response. Thankfully I don't deal with high current stuff, but you never know when you are going to start. Gonna start saving for a Wiha.
Voltage does not cause heat. It's current that does. Are you a qualified electrician?
Extra low voltage...
does anyone know the Estation Smart from Innogy and the house connection box ... 2 brass crimped cables under a U-clamp ... I saw so much bad things done by Superstar Electricians
More grist to the mill for my favourite gripes:
1. IRRESPECTIVE of the cable type ALWAYS use the right sized ferrule. Even solid core cables benefit due to the extra crush resistance. Ideally for screw terminals use a quad crimper and set the ferrule flat side up when screwing down and use a hex crimper when fitting into cage clamps.
2. Fires inside CU's would RARELY if EVER happen if a proper temp sensor of below 85° were fitted and triggering - a contactor (resettable type that consumes zero power in normal use (nc contacts) opens on a fault and will not reset except manually. No high temp ... NO fire!
In the worst case even causing rcd or rcbo tripping to isolate when a temp fault occurs.
3. WHY are busbars fitted below not above the breakers where they should be? Yes I know UK breakers suck with stupid flying neutrals instead of proper double pole RCBOs and standard breakers too . Top in bottom out SHOULD be the norm not what we have now. MUCH easier to check for a single cable connection in the bottom rather than the mainly hidden busbar under insulation. At the top the busbar connections can EASILY be seen!
The problem with reliance on torque screwdrivers, IMHO, is it depends on the medium being tightened. Copper is ductile, and I think we need to encourage a common sense tug test mentality. I have experience in aviation maintenance, torque loading is normal 'steel to steel' I am not so sure with this 'copper to brass' obsession.
So much whine around strands twisting out. You guys there in UK. Have you heard anything about ferrules? Absolute fail if not installed on fine stranded wires here....
Ferrules on class 2 conductors is a grey area.
see discussion in the video - ua-cam.com/video/Ia13o1I6DkM/v-deo.html
I'm being taught atm. I've been taught to always tighten terminals give the cables a good pull to check. Then once everything is finish go around for a final check as by then the copper strands should of settled in place. None of the sparkies that teach me have used a torque screwdriver or think they're worth it so long as you got half a brain and don't under torque.
Worked in the game 16 years and never used a torque screwdriver it’s a utube sparky thing. I think I seen one bloke use one once. These lads are sponsored to sell tools
Technology move on & the torque screw driver is not the cure for all problems. I've been in the game for 30 yrs and never used one. I think like most things the price of these are way to expensive plus it needs calibration after 12 months £££ I would be sticking to my screwdriver and to date I have not had to make a claim on my public liability 🤑
@@gggggppppp - 'Well your honour, I didn't think that the manufacturer's instructions would ever come back and bite me on the arse. Didn't realise how the legal system worked... '
Unguarded clamp terminals should be banned. There's no reason to use them over guarded ones, other than the manufacturer saving 1/10 penny worth of material...
So I am right after all 🤣 use torque screwdriver is a complete waste of time, as as you have just proved with the main switch demonstration, I have said before for if you put a single conductor in the terminal then double the over the ends as it gives the screws a bigger area to clamp down on . Gaz that’s what you tort your Lerner’s for 19 years and it is how you and I were tort .
Fantastic video guy’s as always
👍❤️👍👍👍👍
I still fit plastic consumer units. Cheaper than metallic
My mate has a calibrated nipple. exactly 1mt from his finger tips.
I believe we are all blessed with this accurate measurement. A flook of nature .
Torx screwdriver, waste of time and dangerous. Just use a screwdriver, give the cable a little wiggle while you tighten up the cable and you will always know you got it properly 😎
Torques don’t have the FEEL that a competent electrician has