The Truth About Flexible Solar Panels
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2018
- Does off-grid solar confuse you?
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Wow, you managed to cram an hour's worth of info into six minutes. Will, this is the type of video I love. None of the fluff and time killer, just the facts!
Mark Conger pro tip. for 1 hour videos watch at 1.5x speed.
spot on comment.
Yeah, if they can't give me the info in ten minutes or less, they're either disorganized or think I'm lonely and need some company.
Minus the facts ...
He has a wild misunderstanding of how solar cells work, how they fail, or how they dissipate heat.
His thermal fails show signs of resulting from cracked crystals which frequently happens during the shipping and handling.
The sandwhiching layers are NOT, in fact, insulators. The thermal performance with one thin layer of plastic is very close to that of the glass (an actual insulator) on one side and air cooled aluminum on the other.
Failures frequently occur when people paste them to metal roofs that get hot in the sun.
They are less efficient, they are not as durable, but literally nothing this guy says is anything but counter-hype. He is enthusiastic and convincing, just not accurate.
Solar power is suffering terribly from over hype and the resultant backlash like this video.
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First, I’d like to start off by telling you why I am interested in the topic, and how I came about finding the information on this topic. Next, I am going to tell you about the history of this topic. Then I am going to tell you a personal anecdote that may or may not have anything to do with the topic. Before I end the video, I will dedicate at least a minute or two to the actual topic so people in the comments don’t claim I’m click baiting. Lastly, I will restate everything I said earlier, but also show you my pet who decided to interrupt me while recording on the set. Awe! Isn’t he/she cute?!? Thank you to our sponsor!
Perhaps you could redo this video with the newer CIGS panels?
Agreed! Some of what Will says doesn't seem to apply to them (like one cell damaged pulling down the panel). Also, Hobotechs experience doesn't seem to align with much of this and I haven't personally read of anyone else making these kinds of claims against Bouge/cigs flexible panels - quite the contrary.
Will, the world needs you bro. This video saved me a world of hurt. My instincts on these panels were vindicated. Thank you a million times.
Will: I think you need to update this. My Renogy flexible doesn't get any hotter than dark paint but my glass panel gets a lot hotter. Most are junk but there are several good ones now.
yes!!! please Will, we need an update!!
So happy i saw this comment. Just ordered a 175w renogy flexible panel, and was about to regret my decision, but now i feel good again 😁
@@elsyver They are quality.
But i guess that you still have air flowing underneath them right? I still dont trust them to be flush on the roof@@tonylatham5915
yep those older ones were booty
I'm happy with my semi-flexiblepanel after four years. I mounted it on a thin sheet of masonite. Light weight and shock resistance are essential to me. I keep it indoors when not charging. I never expose it to the night sky because freezing might harm it. Mine is the one shown in your video.
I have glass panels in all my permanent installs, but I bought a semi-flexible one to use as a temporary vehicle battery charger when my car is parked for long periods. A glass panel would take up more space when not in use and also be more likely to damage the dashboard or trim due to the weight and sharp corners. So far the flexible panel is working fine. I'm reasonably gentle with it and it is entirely exposed on the back for heat dissipation as it is held onto the windshield with suction cups.
I think the flexible panels your are talking about are the flexible crystalline ones. There is also thin film (aka amorphous), which are meant to work better in low light and shade. You made a lot of good points.
Dude your opinion is by far the best, I have ever seen. That’s saying a lot because, I have been selling and installing renewable, sense the early eighties. When I started, we made our own panels, I broke many cells while soldering the cells, to make a panel, not to mention the water proofing the panel. it’s so much better and easier today. Even after all of these years, I still feel that, a Home built, Axle Flux Wind Turbines is far better then, any manufactured wind turbine, on the market. NOW FOR ME, and for what I’m doing, I’m trying something very difficult, installing a panel on my boat. I would like to be sure my boat battery stays charged, I have a 20’ Thompson speed boat, that we use for fishing. While under power, I’m never worried about our charging abilities. There are those days, that we stay put all day fishing, our electronics, are always on. We have Humminbird Fish Finder/Deep finder, a Ship to Shore Radio, and other electronics. That’s a heavy drain of power, we start our boat every 1/2 hour or so, to keep the batteries charged. We added a extra battery in Parallel for extra capacity. My fear is if someone would ever forget to start the boat, they would drain out. I even keep a third battery on my boat on standby, just in case. Yes I’m paranoid, I would like to have a 200w solar panel charging them. I have always known for about the shittyness of flexible panels. Is there Something that you can suggest for my situation or is flexible my only answer, with the problems you have, rightfully explained. The next problem is the whole 12v thing, I hate them, I always considered them a waste of money. All of my off grid installations we use 36v panels. With Midnight Solar, Classic Charge controllers. I’m just in one of those weird situations, that I may need a flexible 12v panel, with some stupid and cheaply built controller. You would know this, what would be a decent small controller, that you would you suggest? I have never built such a small array before? Sorry for the novel dude. Your opinion is very valuable to me. I always send any new off grid costumer, of mine to you. They can get a education from someone, I consider one of the best that I have ever seen. You will go a long way in life, and will lead people to a much better future.
I agree that the inability to dissipate heat would cause failure of the panels or at least reduce its performance. Ambient temperature does account for a large portion of heat, but what is being show at 0:46 is from circulating current due to individual receiving different amounts of radiation, thus different currents. It has more to do with internal interactions rather than environmental temperatures. Also, this is an issue flat panels share, so his statements aren't technically true. It just happens more often with flexible panels because how they are being used.
The hot spot issue is not due to materials used, thin plastic sheet performs the same as a thick slab of glass.
The most likely culprit is in fact bending damage, these panels are handled 100x over and very likely to get small unnoticeable cracks which will keep getting worse once the material heat cycles, and once you have significant damage the cell no longer produces a comparable voltage to other cells so it becomes a power drain instead, now effectively working as a resistive heater.
It could also be bonding issues, but that is again a very small change in heat dissipation.
Yeah, he has misidentified the 'hot spot' cause. The encapsulation materials on glass panels are also insulators (-ish). While I deeply wish this weren't true, getting small orders shipped all the way from China/Indonesia means they get handled *alot* .
Thank you for this information, I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a kit I saw on eBay for $300 CAD a few days ago.
South-east England and I have just fitted a flexible panel, and the purchase was mostly based on the pop-top roof of our elderly camper. When we upgrade the camper, or the struts that hold that pop top! The mounted area is almost completely flat, so it shouldn't flex. It's a mono 150W etfe panel. It was cheap, fills a gap for us and can be replaced in a few years if the van is still with us. Nice work Will, love the videos, keep it up!
I'm at 5 months on top of my van with renogy flexible so far so good
Another excellent post from my GO2GUY Will, you've saved me a ton of headaches and money over the last couple of years Thank You!
I have 3 100w sunpower flexible panels on Eagle cap 1200 in northern California with corrugated plastic underneath them and haven't had a problem after 3 years . Still going strong.
Thank you - very helpful - originally I was going to do flexible but not now having seen this. You rock!
This may well be one of the most helpful videos on all of youtube.
Awesome information and advice. Thanks Will!
I appreciated the honesty at the end, we know you've bought a ton of equipment and you're being honest in your advice on what you spent on them and the disappointment. I've got two solar arrays and I'm looking for something to charge up a portable LifePO4 power station with. I was thinking flexible panels but now I'm thinking of just making a mounting system for a few glass panels.
Will, thank you so much for your time and concern here! I almost fell for these, seemed to good to be true
I watched your video last year and decided I'd take the risk and go flexible as I needed to keep weight down.
12 months later, my output is down 40%, a glass panel of the same weight would provide better performance... Do it right or do it twice!
Exactly what I needed to know. I was thinking of mounting flex panels on my Sienna stealth van. Nope. Gotta go with glass. Two 100 watt Renogys. They'll still be fairly unobtrusive. Thanks for this.
Thanks for your honest review. What is your review and lifetime of > PowerFilm 120 Watt F-120 Foldable Solar Panel?
Thanks for the tips! Sounds good. I haven't seriously started solar yet, but I been trying to think up cooling systems. Ones that can use the heat energy to do something productive too.
Excellent, you just saved me a few $100, I also saw a video in which the flex panel transfers heat into the interior of the vessel, ceiling temperatures increased by 5 deg F. thanks
I have never used a fixable panel simply because looking at them I could not think of anything but what you have just stated.
Great info and thanks for putting it out there.
Super helpful information. Hopefully someone invents a better way for flexible solar panels to dissipate heat, bit of a tough physics issue though.
they should put a copper sheet under solar panel, and some kind of passive heatsinks with a large surface area put on the copper sheet
what about a layer of Corroplast or corrugated polycarbonate greenhouse covering sandwiched between the flexible panel and the vehicle for airflow/cooling? I was thinking of trying this but haven't seen anybody else try this. I know the ETFE coated panels last longer before clouding up.
There are conductive flexible sheet materials... my guess is they're expensive...
Just did. Look at my comment from earlier today
I bought 2 x 100w of the ones you showed the advert for. They lasted 2.5 years before dying and replacing them with a 310w solid panel doubled my power output.
Good to know. I never liked flexible panels. My 98 monaco came with 100watt bp panels from factory. Still pulling almost 4.5amps at peak hours. I will be getting more panels soon. But not flexible ones. Thanks for the info!!
Appreciate the info. I’m actually planning to have it for my semi truck.
Thanks for the great info. Made my decision to go with hard panels. Just hate to change my trawler profile but can’t have something for nothing. Now just need to decide between 24 or 12 volt system. Thanks again!
Just got your solar power book. It is written very well.
Awesome!! Thank you
Thanks Will, this is the kind of video that you are best of. Really valuable info!.
I was getting ready to by the Renogy 160w flexible panel and you helped me to make my decision, thx
Thanks for the video. I was just about to order 2 100w flexable panels for my rv trailer. Now I know better.
Great review I agree with everything you said as everybody around me at the marina has flexible solar panels and I’ve never seen any last more than two years without falling apart except for a mate that has a pair of solbian panels , they are now 8 years old and the 100 watt panel is still putting out it’s 5 amps , the reason not every body has a good quality panel is because one of these panels costs 1300 Australian dollars
Unfortunately there has been a rush of super cheap prices advertised on flexible solar panels. The crystals in both the cheap and expensive ones are all the same at point of manufacture. The *mishandling* of the panels before point of sale is the major cause of these problems. Small cracks in individual crystals turn the the crystal into a resistive heater (it's not the sun melting them but the neighboring crystals pushing amperage through them, worsening the problem).
You get what you pay for and the cheap rush is going to ruin solar's reputation before long.
yeah the good ones are really costly!
Hey buddy! Great vid! Literally almost went for one this morning but my gut told me to wait a bit more and look a bit more more into it. What would you say instead about folding panels? Those that get really small usually in a folder with handles? Any good ones you came across?
Unfortunately I am in a situation where I can't install a fixed solution on my van and I am looking for alternatives.
Thanks for your help!
I have had my two 100 watt flexible solar panels on my van for almost 7 years now and I haven't had one single issue !!! I even go through the car wash from time to time !!! If you buy quality solar panels and take the proper precautions when installing them they should last for years !!!
Did you use any insulation underneath your panels ? I have white vinyl on my roof which should help to reduce the heat
What brand of solar
Thanks for the tips, young man. I'm starting to think about solar for my small travel trailer.
Awesome video William
Good job...
All true. I have experimented with them as well. One thing I have wondered about tho; was the panel abused before I received it? They can only bend so far.
I am with you, I don't use them anymore.
This information got to us just in time. Thank you!
I ahve seen several of your vids. Can only say, THANK YOU! You just saved me some $$.
Thanks for the heads up. looks like the rigid 120w solar panel is staying put!
is it possible to review flexible panels again to see the improvements?
Well that answered that question, THANK YOU !
Excellent videoclip!!! Thanks for all this super helpful info. I was about to place an order surrendering to an uninformed temptation,....
Will, you are AWESOME. i almost went with the goal zero yeti battery bank until i seen your videos... you made it sound so simple i just had to do my own build and i did and it is beautiful! thank you
for all your help man, seriously you are awesome. if you ever come through utah, id love to meet up and buy ya lunch
Thank you so much man!!! Glad to hear that you pulled it off. Great job and I'm glad I could help :D
Check MiPV Leisure series panels. Constructed using CIGS cells based on a stainless steel foil cannot crack and are extremely resistant to impact damage such as large hailstones or stones thrown from tyres etc.
Great presentation, very informative and well structured presentation with no bias--lets viewer make their own decision.
One of those last pics you showed of two flex panels on a fabric covering on a boat seems like possibly the best application for these panels. Tons of air flow!
This is my first time looking into them. I'm interested in them because of their low profile because anyone with an eye for van dwellers can see that I've got ridged panels on the roof of my box truck. I mounted mine about an inch up because I was aware of the issues around panels getting hot. It always sorta confounded me as to how flex panels don't get hot, but I always assumed they just costed more because they didn't have that issue. I'm glad I say your video before I bought.
hi, have your elastic panel mounted one inch above works well?
Thanks for info. What do you think about using this just held up or leaning on something for home or when out? Not tied down to the roof of a car. Just leaning on something.
Longitevity. My new fav word. Love your vids
That feel, when you dont have to skip a single part of the video. Thank you!
your eyes have no business being that pretty my dude
lmao so I wasnt the only one
Creepy
lmfao at this comment... but no lie dude I see alot of ladies trying to get their eyes like this guy lol all the stuff my lady does to her eyes from long eye lashes shaped eye brows contacts etc. not saying he does does of these things just saying alot of women mess with their face and eyes to get the same look around their eyes lmao
This is so suspect…but fr man answer the question… was it a question? I got lost in those sky marbles 😍 😩
GMO is link to homosexuality
Thanks for sharing this video you helped me make up my mind to go with rigid. 👌🏽
If you using MLto source flex panel did they warranty the damaged hot spot panels ? If so, how did you lose any monies ?
5 years later, does your opinion still stand with the current generation of flexibles on the market?
Hey Will,
Thank you for the Solar Milk Crate idea!
I know your a busy guy, but when you get a chance please make a follow up video to this.
Thank you so much I was about to buy one for my van conversion. I guess I'll go for solid glass
Very revealing,thank you for this informative upload.
your knowledge on all this is amazing, thanks.
Hi Will - great video. Question - I bought a 2019 travel trailer in October 2018 that has a 100W Go Power flexible panel on the roof. So far, it keeps my batteries charged great. Would you recommend changing it out to a non-flexible panel, maybe even one with a larger wattage? Thanks!
definitely, buttttttt.... proper mounting.
Sunflare panels are made of CIGS material and have stainless cells. They are a game changer.
Best synopsis I have seen. Thank-you.
I was just about to buy one thank you so much 🙏🏻
Thanks for telling the public. You are right.
Fortunately with Sunpower cells, even cracked cells don't produce significantly less output, as long as the copper traces on the back remain intact. They still collect electrons from the silicon and perform as normal.
Hi Will, I love your videos and enjoy the discovering detailed information you provide. I'm interested in flexible solar for my Ecoflow Delta 2 in my campervan. I wonder if the information you shared 5 years ago is still the same now.
I'm wondering too if they have improved since then!
Ive managed to dissipate the heat by mounting them to corrugated plastic roofing, that allows airflow underneath,
Thank you for the input. I bought a Renogy 100w Flexible panel, but haven’t installed it. I had an odd feeling that this wasn’t going to work out as I thought it would.
So the way I'm using it on top of a kayak for an occasional trip is perfect.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Much appreciated.
I've had flexible panels on my boat for 6 years and have noticed for at least the last three at least that the output has reduced dramatically. I was getting up to 25A from 360W but now only using 180W (2x90W panels) and getting 2.5-3.5A. A useful trickle but not much more... I will be going for solid panels when the time comes 👍
Mount cells on 1/8 polycarbonate (lexan), lightweight and can take massive impacts. Plastic is close to glass for heat conductance, balance thicknesses.
I use 100watt flex to Solarized my etrikes which increase range to 160km/sunny day.
Hello. Amazing video.
What are your thoughts about people in the model aircraft community using flexible panels? They’re lightweight, and the airflow during flight should take care of heating problems, right?
I'm glad you made this video I was debating on buying one. I won't now. Thanks
I have 2 Renergy 100 watt flexible portable panels that I built PVC pipe frames for them with legs to pivot & put them out in the sun, bring them in at night. After 6 months, still generating the same power when I bought them. Also, their on an open frame so the dissipate heat well. They should last much longer this way then roof mounting. I wouldnt do that at all.
Drum Crazy Crary I’d love another update man - so much contradictory information and sites with reviews they’ve handpicked (can’t trust). Any info from real people is welcome!
Also have the renogy and still going strong 7 months in.
Thanks for the information about the ETFE panels. How refreshing that they're no better than normal panels. Lol.
Hey Will, have you experimented with any treatment such as wax, clear-coat, etc... to prolong the degradation of the surface material?
As usual... good advice! Have you made a video yet on solar blankets?
Great info Will. Love your educational films! :)
Yeah, I was totally going to buy some flexible panels for my trailer. Now I need to figure out how to install rigid panels on my r pods roof.
Have you reviewed the Merlin flexible solar panel which claims you can walk on it, even shoot a arrow through it without affecting the output much
Since this review is 3 years old and things have changed I would love to see you review Sunflare solar’s panels.
QUESTION:
Has the flexible solar panel technolog improved since this video was made?
yup
Thanks for saving me the trouble! I was just about to buy some on eBay. 🌞
Good one - made me think from a different perspective. Thx.
Good info man,thanx.
i was going to add one of these to my system to test them out, but ill just stick to the old school panels after your review. most of mine are 5 years old now and still going strong. Sounds like these flexible panels have a long way to go. let us know when these panels are worthwhile!
Had a 50W flexible panel on the dash for camping. Vibration from driving killed it at the end of the road trip. Also it got somewhat warped from being in a hot car is summer.
Can you please review renergy 2nd generations flexible solar panels? I heard they did alot to improve these issues. Im jus afraid to try them out and all the videos on them are bias
Wow! You just busted my bubble! I was just about ready to install my solar setup and just received my Renogy flexible solar panels. I enjoy watching your videos because I've always deemed you as the solar sun king! lol Your very knowledgeable and have always steered me in the right direction, however after watching this particular video I was bummed out cause I already purchased the flex panels. I suppose I could return them as I have not installed them yet and still have the shipping boxes. The premise behind me using flexible solar is because I am soon to be a Van Stealth dweller. If you put framed, glass type panels on top of a van and also add a max air or fantastic fan ventilation system on top as well, then you just lost your stealth mode. Flex panels are more stealthier, and I had planned on putting mounts and side ladders to help mask the vent cowling a bit. I suppose if I elevate the ladders a bit more it could help mask the other style of panels if I choose to return the flex and go with the other type. hmmm what to do? Back to the drawing board!
Maybe just buy 1 flexible panel, rig it in parallel with the others and test for voltage/wattage output drop over time. Will has helped me out a lot with advice for my solar system; BUT in this video he talks a lot about, essentially cheap Chinese crap. And not a lot (any that I recall) about quality American owned and manufactured product like Renogy. I'm hearing a lot of anecdotal stories about people who have had their flexible panels for 5 years and are still working at 97% +, so maybe the jury is still out on the high end ones.
Agreed - I put some on my boat in Florida (on top of the bimini). Neither one lasted more than a year. They were fried by the sun. If they were smart they'd use flexible aluminum backing.
which framed solar panels do you recommend for high efficiency (21% + rating)..?
I was thinking to make a solar sea scooter and use a flexible solar panel. Nice video change my mind. my solar panel will be 1 metre above the sea ? Which panel do you recomend? Salt water damage monocristal regular panel? Or flexible panel 1 metre above sea manage heat problem? There will be nothing between panel and sea there will be just air.
Great video. Very useful information. What are your thoughts of the Sun Soaker 10W flexible solar panel for backpacking, etc?
Thanks I was gonna pull the trigger on a panel thanks again.
Would it help if you glued the flex cells to a metal backing with like heatsink-plaster to help with the heat dissipating?
Good vid my man. I have good luck with the harbor freight solar system. It's perfect for me.