A Debate on Gaza: Ali Abunimah of Electronic Intifada vs. J.J. Goldberg of the Jewish Daily Forward
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- www.democracyno... - We host a debate on U.S. media's coverage of the Israel-Gaza conflict and the roots of the crisis with two guests: Ali Abunimah, co-founder of the website Electronic Intifada & author of the new book, "The Battle for Justice in Palestine"; and J.J. Goldberg, editor-at-large and columnist at the newspaper, The Jewish Daily Forward. Abunimah and Goldberg discuss news headlines that ignore the massive Palestinian toll, whether the ceasefire should address the Gaza blockade, and the history of the conflict.
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I've never seen Ali like this. Amazing. Thank you for your passion and dedication, Ali. Keep up your amazing work.
Oh my, Ali has completely annihilated JJ here, left speechless.
9 years later and things haven’t changed. 😢
Not one bit.. 😢
Yes, my thought exactly. I can only hope and pray that the horrific situation today in Gaza from Israel will results in big changes as more people are aware of the terror and inhumane conditions of the Palestinian people which are the results of crimes against humanity and war crimes by the Israeli government with US approval.
Was thinking the same thing!!!!! Stumbled across this today.
Exactly😩😭
Ali Abunimah is on fire in this debate.. He completely destroys J,J, Goldberg.. But i do give Goldberg credit in admitting the blockade is collective punishment, IE against international law
*in at least admitting
That's a bare absolute minimum. I wouldn't bother crediting literal common decency. But I get you're trying to extend a olive branch, I just don't feel it's worth it with lying sacks of shit like Goldberg. They don't care for peace or truth, they just want power.
By the end JJ was so outright humiliated he couldn't even bring himself to say anything and had to hide behind a smile.
Pathetic.
Pathetic like all zionists.
Goodness gracious. Ali absolutely demolished this guy.
The main goal is not to leave JJG speechless, but to bring to the US society information about what is going on there in Gaza and the West Bank.
Ali does it.
Absolutely, also correcting the words that they use to normalize their crimes.
Can see how JJ bites his lip, looks solemn and reflective, and knows he is conflicted inside. But yet he knows he has to choose his words wisely, for he would lose his position and career if he dares slander Israel's "humanitarian and moral" record on air, where in America that would most certainly be a swift sentence to being labeled as a "self hating jew" , "terrorist sympathiser/ supporter" , "holocaust denier" etc.
Good on Ali, for making JJ feel the guilt we all should feel for allowing such massacre to continue.
Ali you legend!
well done ali.
JJ got some asskicking....I like that guy Ali. He is a hero. I never heard of him before but I will be doing more research on him.
look up electric intifada, that's his publication
I heard the rapper Lowkey mention him & a Jeremiah Wright in the song Obamanation.
JJ. IS SPEECHLESS. ALI IS ELOQUENT!
Good job Mr Ali.
JJ your not too far from your grave , stop lying and be afraid of the time you will stand in front of god
Amy Goodman and DN! are really doing a fine job of reporting on Gaza.
I had to watch every single minute of her shows, lately. Thank You, DN!
It is refreshing, considering the lack of accuracy and the absense of any in-depth analysis, regarding their coverage of the 9/11 WTC false-flag bombing!
Amy, you moderated perfectly. You only took a few seconds to stop Ali so JJ could respond. Any other so called "news program" would be all too courteous and let the talking head go on. Everyone should actually listen to Democracy Now with an open minded ear and observant eye. Ali was full of passion and JJ was thinking about how to respond to everything Ali threw at him. That is all. Sometimes there is nothing to read into people's actions if they are genuine. JJ agrees this is collective punishment (as do I) which is a war crime. Israel should stop immediately.
Peace be with all the families involved in this horrible war.
Ali, your words packed a punch, and JJ seemed clearly overpowered in this interview, highlighting your well-informed perspective.
❤🇵🇸❤️
Thank you, Democracy Now. It's delightful to see a reporter being allowed to presents the facts and highlight the aggressive nature of the language used to speak about Palestine and the Palestinians. Thank you also to Mr. Goldberg for having the courage to admit when he is wrong. Finally, thank you, Mr. Abunimah, for exploring the issue of the Palestinian occupation with such candor.
Nothing delightful here
Just hard truth
Ali is wonderful
We love you Ali! Such Heart!
Ali tells the truth and even moves JJ Goldberg towards admitting the truth about the Nakba
Amy: - "Last 15 seconds Mr. JJ?" .........
JJ: - "Im sorry, there is nothing to say to the boss....."
Goldberg represented zionism Ali represented humanity
Ali represented Arab Nazism
I don't think that jj really believes what he is saying. I think that he has accepted a job that requires that he spout a line. That's why he can't respond to Ali. In his heart of hearts he knows that Ali is right, he just can't admit that publicly.
Nobody better than Ali A..maybe Chris Hedges is even with him! I love Ali..just discovered him, April, 2024!
Amazing how those who support this insanity try to rationalize it, and justify it. There is no excuse.
Ali spittin 🔥 🔥 🔥 in this debate. Master class in counter Hasbara.
Kudos DN! for bringing on advocates for both sides of the conflict. I watched Bill Maher last Friday, and he had made sure that all of his guests shared his pro bomb-Gaza view.
Using the word "conflict" to describe a brutal, decades-long occupation is now faux pas. It's nice to see these positive changes in society. Also, I hope you're not still watching Bill Maher. There are more entertaining ways to waste time.
old j.j. didnt do to well. i wonder WHY.
Because lie can't never beat the TRUTH!!!
Maybe he should have tag-teamed with Jen Psaki.
i think his conscience is not letting him continue to lie about this anymore
+MrDyer65 Palestinians are better at rhetoric and propaganda, and screaming. Facts don't hold up well in the face of that, unfortunately.
Sean L.
you're obviously a fuckhead douchebag just like jj
John Bolton mustache sums it up
😂😂😂
Well done Ali, JJ did not know what to respond. "He choked !!" ... He couldn't respond! What JJ Goldberg said was completely insignificant. Because of 'Evil Cowards and Scumbags' like JJ Goldberg hundreds of innocent kids are getting slaughtered in Gaza everyday! #freepalestine
10:30 Wow. It only took him thirty seconds to go from honesty to total flat out propaganda BS.
Ali, you did hammer your words so convincingly and powerfully that I believe JJ will shudder for the rest of his life anytime he remember this hour.
it's now 2021 and nothing has changed for the better.
The mention of Raafat Areer makes me sad.
Ali is a brilliant journalist.....Thanks Amy
Wow, this hits so hard now. 😢
Great video but why is Democracy Now's video quality 240p?
So on point!
Wow. I’m astonished at JJ calling the daily massacre of Palestinians a boring headline. In that statement alone, there is admittance that Israel is killing so many Palestinians so often, it’s no longer interesting to the news cycle. And of course, we all know if it were Jewish Israelis, or US Americans being slaughtered every day, the papers would have no trouble formulating proper headlines that conveyed the reality each and every time. My mouth literally dropped when JJ said news coverage of Israeli massacres of Palestinians are “monotonous”. I wonder if JJ has self reflected and realized the deep racism within that would produce such a statement. Ali was incredible in his statements and responses. Sadly, I was not tuned in 10 years ago, and obviously too many others were not either, because here we are. A full blown genocide of Palestinians perpetrated by Israel, propped up by the US, UK, Germany, and Denmark. Never again means never again for anyone and the West has shown its ugly face of hypocrisy, racism, imperialism, and fascism.
Ali was talking about the killing of Reafat's best friend.
9 years later, israel had killed Reefat, too. They will never be juat numbers.
The United States and Israel share the same foreign policy strategy - that of brutality. I have a stupid question. Has this been a "winning" strategy across history?
BOTH journalists agreed that Israel continuously violated the previous ceasefire or "peace" until Israel provoked the Hamas govt (or rogues) into a violent response.
Love you Ali
Bravo Ali, you showed that Zio and I'm only realizing now, as I'm typing, that this upload is 9 years old. Nothing's changed. Things have only gotten worse.
Finish spitting out the furrball so you can pronounce Hamas
JJ aint got the chutzpah!
Wow… this is kind of weird. Actually it’s disgusting how eerily similar this all is.
On J.J Goldberg's gibberish about Iron Dome:
According to the IDF’s figures:
Before Iron Dome 2008-2009 War: 925 rockets fired. 3 civilian casualties.
Ratio: 300:1
After Iron Dome 2014 War: 1,350 rockets fired. 4 civilian casualties.
Ratio: 300:1.
'Ted Postol, a physicist at [M.I.T] and expert in missiles and missile defenses, has found evidence that only about 5% of Iron Dome engagements result in the targeted rocket being destroyed or even sufficiently damaged to disable its explosive warhead. In the other 95 percent of cases, the interceptor either misses entirely or just lightly damages the enemy munition, allowing the rocket’s intact warhead to continue arcing toward the ground.'
I believe Israel uses Iron Dome more as glorified fireworks for scaring people in Israel and B.S'ing media
I sure appreciate how you let everyone speak. Most debates are constant interruption. You hear nothing and get a headache.
This is amazing - DE JA VU - in 9 years nothing has changed!
LOL...that poor guy got owned so bad here........I don't think he was ready!!!
I'm not seeing any easy man made
solutions to Israel's problem. Their
escalation in their sustained and
continual destruction of Palestine is
only going to create bitter enemies
for generations. Are we about to witness
Palestine's Masada ?
Hamas was democratically elected because previous Palestinian representatives have failed to bring them a state of their own.
Wow
Gaza don't vote for you but you want to rule them.
That JJ is one bizarre AH.
TY Ali... You killed JJ! #gazaunderattack
Two questions. If there is in fact a blockade of Gaza how did Hamas bring in all those rockets? Also, how come we never hear about the Egyptian blockade of Gaza?
Doesn't sound like a very effective blockade as they claim. How come nobody talks about the Egyptian blockade?
ouch
Ali don't take no shit.
Ali is spot on
They came from the incenerator in jermany to put the Palestinians in the incenerator.
Ali ! Ali ! Ali ! .. the Jewish gentleman got his butt handed to him .
10:10 Credit where credit is due, J.J. Goldberg does get a plus point in the end
Did Goldberg ever tell the truth? I had to stop listening after his first statement.
Umm I totally thought this was current. Fuck me.
Ali Ur a champion 🏆
Free Palestine!!
If some one felt uneasy about Ali's passionate response, try understanding it in the context of the gravity of the sufferings of the Palestinians which Goldberg and MSM treat with passive indifference (tightly fit within Local story content "bang-Bang"-- per Goldberg)!
Oh JJ, JJ, JJ....
When the oppressor convinces itself it is not responsible for the death of innocent civilians and children.
Well J.J. is right whe he says if he goes to Gaza he will get shot, i don't think he's lying.
9 yeas ago, still is going on ,free Palestine .
Hamas did not honor the ceasefire, this is debate between who can lie the most. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2013
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014
May someone tell me what Ali's last sentence was, it was something like "let her do service"?
Earlier in the interview, JJ called the Israeli acts a "disservice" to the Israelis and the Palestinians, and Ali scorned him for simplifying/undermining the massacre (pogrom) by using that word. So at the end he sarcastically suggested that JJ should use that word again.
And who are the 70 others???????? Palestinian civilians??????Why not acknowledge this for what it is.....This is more of the dehumanisation........Ali is a hero big time......
Who counted to ten thousand rockets
"the word 'חוצפּה'" will remain with me for a day
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔Serious question: Is it actually terrorism to resist or fight against a nuclear power occupying force thats keeping you imprisoned and building settlements in your own home or land that you've lived on for thousands of generations???? The people who call themselves Gewish all trace their roots back to European nations and leave the mythology of the bible out unless you have proof that the people in is-real are the Israelites of the bible which there is no proof today. So ive been trying to find what others think. Can you be considered a terrorist in your own home if i break in and hold you hostage and you fight me back? Can i call police on you for assault???? Remember im only asking because im trying to see from all sides of the issue 💯😢
TRUTH yes i am 4 years behind but
Why isn' t the current Israelis goverment policy of never allowing a Palestinians state under any circumstances every mentioned?
I knew the problem was the headline writers! Even when people were saying that Israel is destroying Palestine, I knew, it was the headline writers.
Goldberg is lucky that his ass-whoopin' was only verbal, bloodless, ans he still gets to walk out of the studio.
Destroyed shit bag - Ali FTW!
Actually if you listen to jj you can see that he explicitly agrees with Ali to a much greater degree than we are are giving him credit. Although he represents the Zionist position, he is amongst the most left wing of that insane ideology as you get these days.
I pretty much agree, and Ali was just dragging down the level of the conversation, venting, reusing over-used propaganda and generally being rude. I expected much more from the cofounder of EI.
JJ lying like every sentence.
Nelson Mendella said free Palestine , that is enough, convey the correct message ! Stop making Palestine non humans! This is bad policies!
Refaat Alhariri ❤
still classic with the KHAMAS ugh so timeless from these zionists
Yes the world will see the evil. It will...
Goldberg was reasonable, and I understand the emotion in Ali's words.
No, he wasn't reasonable, he behaved like the scheming hasbara bullshitter that he is.
Yes agrea with ya'll and despite everything that israel does no one holding it accountable and in most cases it is supported
J.J OWNED. Jewish man confused himself
Look at that twisted rodent smile at the end
Lol 'jj' get ownd 😂💁
I agree with Ali, but it has to be said that he doesn't have to interrupt and shout to get his points through. The emotionality is quite understandable, but it gives Goldberg opportunity to stand out as the calm and informed one - in many westerners eyes.
Hey come. Me and my 7 year old son was about to go to Israel on holliday from Sweden. Now Hamas is targeting my son if we travel to Ben Gurion. Why is that. I havent done anything against palestinians.
wadawaddah, Hamas does not target children. Their missles do not have any guidance sysytems. Israel actually targets children. if you do a litttle research you will find out the truth. do not believe what you hear in western media. open your eyes my friend.
Aydan Asmar If you'll place your children around the rocket launcher, they will be hurt!
Stop manipulating us, please!
That's not good at all but the most defenseless, vulnerable and the most in need of protection and attention right now are the Palestinian, and by far! And that's why I denounce and call for stopping the bombing of Gaza now.
Pwned
I don't find JJ Goldberg so unreasonable in this debate. It's mainly his inability to respond properly to the accusations and the tone of Ali that makes Goldberg doesn't look good in the debate. When I'm seeing through that Goldberg is quite reasonable. I don't know a lotta things he has written, but he acknowledges a lot of wrongdoing by Israel, so I don't think it's fair to refer to him as 'Jews in New York like JJ Goldberg talking about ...." as Ali said. I don't live in the US so I've no idea how these stories are reported there, but I agree with Goldberg that besides the horrific killings that are going on, it's important to maintain sight on the politics behind it. Why is Israel responding a certain way, why is Hamas responding a certain way, what are th conditions of the ceasefire by both sides. This is what Goldberg tries to point out. It's not 'whining that there isn't enough coverage of Israel being bombarded.....' as Ali said. I actually felt that for Goldberg when I watched it the second time.
JJ looks bad only by a very superficial assesment. I've watched the interview to the end and I was getting sick and tired from Ali's cheap nagging attacks and venting. I wouldn't say that he made JJ look bad.
juliandereus2
It is not about "acknowledging wrongdoings by Israel", that is the worst thing you can say because it normalises the massacre. It is not about "responding by two sides", it is about ethnic cleansing. Maybe this sounds radical to you but I doubt you can disprove it.
Israel has been expelling Palestinians from their land since 1948, and there are no two sides to that. You need to cleanse the land in order to establish a ethnic-religious exclusive state. Any peace talks, Israel in fact had nothing to win from them as long they were expanding and the strong one. All it does is distract the general public from the slow annexation of the West Bank. And to Palestinians, with dead babies, there are no two sides to that. Israel can do whatever it wants, make whatever statements they want, and the international media will take it as the more credible one. Israel will always try to come off as the "reasonable" and "democratic" one, there is nothing reasonable about theft, and killing babies. To think there is anything reasonable about that means portraying the Palestinians as savages, that somehow deserve to be killed? It's a logical consequence of their behavior and they need to be punished?
As Ali puts it: "What we have is this liberal Zionist navel gazing about how to preserve Israel as a so-called Jewish and democratic state. Enough Palestinian babies have been blown to pieces for this insanity. Enough of lecturing Palestinians that their resistance is illegitimate or futile."
Annelies Lotteke I said nothing about which side is 'good' and which side is 'bad'. I just pointed out that Goldberg made a reasonable point that the coverage focuses on things that are emotionally attachable. It makes sense for the news to do this because it's sensational and sensation scores. What I think is much more interesting is the politics behind all this. Figuring out why the two sides are operating the way they are isn't rationalizing or normalizing the massacre. Far from it. It actually could help bringing the situation to an end. What if US citizens knew what is going on there, knew what the US role is and were able to form an opinion on the situation there, so they can protest, write letters to politicians and talk to each other about it. Isn't that much more valuable than just showing the monstrosity of the situation? Then people just despise the situation without actually getting into the content of the situation.
juliandereus2
Don't you think the dead children IS the most important factor in the story? Is it sensational to report on the death of children? What if those children would have been white? All decisions, including on an international level, are made based on emotions. Emotionally attachable arguments is how the West justifies its neo-colonial interventions too.
That is what is happening. Dead children. And I don't understand what you mean about "the politics" of it, you mean news reporters should say "children were killed with US weapons"? In fact, if Israel would not have been an ally of the United States, it would have been very easy to frame it and do an intervention: occupier kills occupied's children. Do you want the media to report more on how much money the US is providing Israel with each year? How ethnic cleansing of Palestine happened in 1948, and how what is happening now, is still a continuation of that? People are not informed about this. Does this sound too threatening to you, or too emotional? What if it's true?
In this video, I feel a bit sorry for JJ Goldberg, because he knows he cannot defend the indefensible. I know Ali Abunimah comes off as very aggressive, but he has every right to do that. If they would have been massacring white people, don't you think the first thing on our mind would be to FUCKING STOP IT. To not rationalize away the deaths, the children. The Palestinians have 67 years of humiliation, occupation, and they are tired of it. What would help bring the situation to an end would be to portray the Palestinians as humans.
Annelies Lotteke I absolutely agree that every aggressor portrays himself as an innocent victim and justify his own violence that way, but that does not mean that I think it's right to do so. The questions you put forward are indeed some of the questions that need to be raised in the media, because these questions are essential for people to understand what's going on AND TO ACT UPON IT. Most people simply have no idea what's going on. Seeing dead pictures of children without knowing the context and knowing that you're in the position to stop it, won't change the situation. That's all I'm saying. For the sake of the Palestinians we should try to inform people about what's going on and stop solely focusing on emotionally-attached content. I hardly doubt you would disagree.
Ali Abunimah was very weak and not convincing. His chanting is tedious and silly sometimes..Democracy Now could have done much better :(
Ali was convincing?
Let's see. Almost 9 months had passed. And what is left? Hamas stopped shooting and got no achievements. No airport. No port. No political power outside gaza of any significance.
So many Palestinians died and what does Hamas has to show for it? Israel is strong than ever and the Palestinians still have a very long way to go only to rebuild its infrastructure and lots of graves..
Ali Abunimah - tell us more lies.