Ep. 205 | Long Overdue - The Fundamentals of Marksmanship Talk
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2021
- Ask any coach of any sport and they’ll say - “you need to master the fundamentals.” The fundamentals of marksmanship are no exception. Mark and Jim grab coach Nick to get all learned up so they (and you) can become better shots.
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Awesome video, always nice listening to a master it helps the novices like myself.
It would be cool if you had 10-15 minute videos breaking down and displaying some of the things Nick talks about, the PRS videos were very cool but if you could do something similar with the more simple techniques and fundamentals.
that would be pretty awesome - we'll look into whipping some of those videos up for ya :)
As someone who recently transitioned from rimfires to my first centerfire rifle, and starting to practice longer shots (nothing crazy yet, still trying to get my 200-300 yard shots right) this is great information. Next time I go practice I'll make a point to be mindful of all this. Thanks guys!
Nick is easy to listen to, more Nick!
I was an Appleseed instructor at one time and what we taught was The 6 Steps of Firing a Shot.
1 Sight Alignment
2 Sight Picture
3 Respiratory pause
4a Focus your eye on the front sight
4b Focus your mind on keeping the front sight on target
5 Trigger squeeze
6 Follow through and call your shot
Pertaining to the reason that people lay at an angle to the rifle in a prone position: In an unsupported prone position you want to place your supporting arm directly below the rifle to provide “bone support” to the weapon as opposed to “muscle support”. The only way to do that and still have a proper natural point of aim is to lay at an angle to the weapon.
My one thing that I have always emphasized with my boys is staying in the shot, ie follow through. I see so many shooters breaking the shot and then instantly you see their head come off the stock as if looking over the scope to see where the point of impact is. Keeping your head on the stock with your cheek weld and maintaining your vision in the scope is very important. Thanks for sharing this video. It is full of great fundamentals.
😢e 😢😢nm itz
Yes sir great advice. My dad said the same thing
GREAT Job. The fundamentals are everything. I just start precision shooting and I greatly increased when I paid attention to the fundamentals just as you said great job !
NPOA is incredibly important. I learned it at age 28 in the Maple seed program (Canadian version of appleseed) and it drastically changed my shooting.
Absolutely!
Absolutely awesome information, I do some of that stuff at the range. Talk myself through. this podcast is a wealth of great information. Hopefully people will put this information to Great use and improve their skill. Thanks again
Lots of great info. I've been hunting my whole life, mostly off hand shooting. It's amazing how much I didn't know. Thanks and keep it coming.
The reason we are more relaxed when we have exhaled is because that's the default position - our lungs are collapsed by default. It is the job of the diaphragm to pull air into the lungs, and to do that, it has to work. When it relaxes, the air leaves the lungs without the same effort required as it takes to inhale. Also, regarding having a scope that is not level will cause the bullet to fly off the centerline because the rifle is rolled to the side - think of it this way (imagine your turrets are not adjustable, so you need to move your POA by holdover), if you need to adjust for height (known as pitch), you tip the rifle up or down, and if you need to adjust for windage, you 'slide' the tip of the rifle left or right (which makes the back of the rifle do the opposite) - this is known as yaw - but if your scope is canted, it means your entire rifle is leaning over, in a roll - like when an airplane does a barrel roll, because, to make your brain make it think the scope is level, you make the crosshairs straight up and down in your sight, but the rifle is rolled in one direction or the other - so in that case, let's say the scope crosshairs are canted to the left, then the front of the rifle is pointed off to the right, and the back is pointed off to the left, no longer in a straight line to the target - and you're not likely to hit anything farther than 200-300y away - and you might not even know it is canted, if you never shoot farther than that. I make sure the rifle is level, and then level the scope to the receiver, and then I check it with a plumb line set up far enough away that I can focus on it, and make sure the rifle is level while looking through the scope.
Did my first ever PRS22 match and hit 49/50 targets. Fundamentals got me there.
An excellent way to spend an hour. Awesome conversation and details. Wholeheartedly agree with the 5 Fundamentals and the many tips from Nick. . . As a Provincial Level Cert Coach in two sports, whomever wrote in the Description Sec: "Ask any coach of any sport and they’ll say - “you need to master the fundamentals.” .... has their thinking cap on.... Love these Pod Casts. Keep Up the wonderful work gentleman. Happy Shooting.
Glad you enjoyed - thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation :)
@@VortexNation Cheers. I LOVE it.
All the good tips. And what I find is that it is helpful to find a moment of tranquility and stillness. Whether that is the exact bottom of an exhale, or not. That suspended moment where the trigger squeeze is a singularity on the event horizon before the bullet is sucked into a black hole. For me, sometimes, that is not at the bottom of an exhale.
But definitely work into the routine how you will normally shoot and what is your philosophy of use. I hunt whitetail, so, what I do is going to be geared to that. My intention is to be sub MOA in as many circumstances as possible so that when I have no choice but to shoot off-hand, I can do so, realizing that I am no more than 1 MOA wide on a shot. Aim small, miss small, even if you are hunting.
I would add call the shot.
Definitely agree 👍.
I agree with that statement that there are some episodes where Jimmy doesn't say his name!
Great series!
I certainly agree with you that some people just have horrible follow through, but I wonder if it’s also a carry over from pistol or AR shooting.
In pistol and AR shooting, pinning the trigger to the rear in the way that you’re talking about for bolt guns (for one one thousand) is a bad practice. It’s called “shooting off the reset.”(which of course I’m sure you guys have heard about, so I’m preaching to the choir) There’s supposed to be a good balance between resetting the trigger during the recoil cycle, but NOT allowing your finger to leave the face of the trigger. In this way YOU, as the shooter, are dictating when you reset the trigger. Instead of the trigger “click” dictating the reset.
However all that said, I think a good “follow through” for a pistol or AR-15 IS that moment when you take up the slack on the semi auto trigger in preparation for the next shot while re-acquiring the sights.
Actually! Typing this just gave me a great idea for my next range day! I’m gonna take my AR, my pistol AND my bolt gun and force myself to individualize the resets for AR and pistol while doing the bolt gun trigger follow through that you just mentioned, and force myself to not carry over because of “habit,” but to “knock off the rust” as you said. Thanks for the great idea!
Hey Guys
Awesome session great refresher on the basics of marksmanship I feel dry firing very important to bring my fundamentals back , thank you , Aussie Steve
Thanks for tuning in, Steve! 👊
My theory on the canted body position for soldiers is not using a bipod. When we would qualify in the prone unsupported position our left arm would act as the bipod. And the right arm would be rear support. It's hard to do that with your body square.
Over 50 years ago, I was taught to set up prone at an angle. Even with a sling we still set up at an angle. No bipods so maybe you’re onto something.
Guys, go ahead and make some "How To" shorts or indepth videos!
Stay tuned ;)
Great video!! I notice that marksmanship videos don’t mention benchrest type shooting.
Legit I didn’t know his name haha. I’d send this video to friends and say “hey the ‘podcast guy’ asked a good question at 23:40” lol
Good Podcast. On lying straight behind the rifle. Could the reason some people cant their body be because of mimicking the position from sitting on a bench that makes you sit to the side?
Nick comments on using pad of trigger finger vs. inside of first knuckle. I am tall, long length of pull (16" nominal) with long hands and fingers. Even with thumb to right and not gripping rifle tight with right hand. Using the finger tip pad of my tigger finger. It seem to be an over extension and pushes/pulls the rifle off target. I welcome comments.
33:00 Tilting the body to the side while prone might also have something to do with most people having a bit of a gut these days...
I say also something with shooting prone without a bipod
Thank you very much for this podcast!!! Being a new shooter and enthusiast, i have been waiting for something that explains the fundamentals so i could learn to correct the way I shoot! Only thing missing is practical and actual training and having to find a much easily accessible range that could accommodate up to a mile so I can practice more!!!
You bet - glad you found it helpful :)
Probably one of my favorite Podcast.
Nick did write a book?
What book do you recommend to a beginner of Long Distance Shooting?
Always learning something new watching your podcasts.
Thank you.
Long Range Shooting Handbook by Ryan Cleckner
If you go to flinching it is much worse than just a wasted shot. You're digging a hole. It's all about reflex arcs and neural pathways. Every time you flinch you reinforce the unconditioned reflexes you are trying to suppress and they WILL grow stronger. Stop. Rest. Dry fire. Dry hold. Put the rifle up for the day, consider a cartridge/ build that has less recoil and blast. Do the dummy round thing with the intent of identifying witch muscles are causing the uncommanded motion. Sometimes being aware of that can help your concentration to suppress the undesired reflex. Don't worry so much about where the bullet hits rather concentrate on being able to call your shots. If you can't immediately think where that bullet hit or you think it went straight through the bullseye and in actuality it's way off you are reflexively closing you eyes before the shot breaks. The really insidious thing about flinching is there is absolutely no identifiable sensation that will tell the shooter that it is happening. Don't obsess over trigger quality or pull weight lots of rifles with 6 pound creepy triggers will shoot 1/2 moa. If you can dry fire without moving the sights you can shoot without moving the sights.
So how much rearward pressure should we have with a recoiling hunting rifle?
Good one 👍🏻
Thanks :)
Good conversation.
Thanks for tuning in, Nathan!
Great video, keep the knowledge coming....just curious, when did you guys start selling crayons, lol...seeing them on the shelf, cracking me up....
Good weight of trigger pull for hunting rifle? I thought we were talking about quite heavy trigger, but at the end Nick mentioned 1lb trigger pull on Mark's rifle helped him out?
Wouldn’t a bit a rearward pressure with the trigger hand help with that follow through? Or do you believe that any amount of muscle beyond the trigger finger is going to compromise the shot?
Shooting prone with a sling a person typically lays 15-30 degrees behind their rifle
Key qualifier "with a sling."
Aiming? Trigger squeeze? Breathing…….come on man….all over rated. I hunt with a grenade launcher……JK……great episode. Very informative….I have many of those bad habits.
Having just completed a Project Appleseed course, which teaches the use of the "GI sling", I have a problem with labeling a system as "fundamental" when it relies on bipods and rear bags. Sure, these are great for shooting prone, but fall short when shooting from standing, sitting or kneeling positions.
Interesting, I know all about breathing and heart ❤️ ticks and when you look trough the scope your own heart doesn’t let you to aim because you know from the inherent training that you will miss it..I more like “cold weapons “ no noise and an arrow can hit you from 100 meters away without any problem…
I struggle with keeping my eye open.
Mark, what is that 70’s song that Eric sung to you in the hunting trip mentioned in episode 100 that put you so close to the edge? If you don’t come out with it, it will fester and haunt you for the rest of your days… and inquiring minds want to know!
Mark would not be pleased if we leaked this information😂 If you guess it though, we might just confirm or deny 😉
Maybe part of the chicken wing is pulling force. To make it easier to pull the stock into your shoulder.
Mark, is the hunting vest video the pinnacle of your acting career, or, are there more Oscar worthy moments on their way?
Been a Long time since Edson Range, Camp Pendleton
👍👍
Nice
As far as the bubble level is concerned, does it get leveled to the reticle once the reticle is leveled to gravity?
Yes
I have a request: Why do certain numbers get skipped when developing new calibers? Like for example, there’s numerous 22’s and 24’s, but I’ve never seen say a 23, or like how there’s a multitude of 40’s, 41’s, 44’s and 45’s, but I don’t recall having ever seen a 42 and the only use I know of the 43 was in revolutionary-era American long guns.
That would be a cool to dive into - we appreciate the request, Josh!
@@VortexNation Absolutely, keep up the good work y’all!
Gents!!! I'm looking to purchase either the Vortex Venom 5-25x56 OR the Bushnell 4.5-27x50 Forge......both with a EBR-7C like reticle and both FFP. What are your thoughts??
We're obviously a bit biased, but if you do have any questions on the Venom, please let us know :)
@@VortexNation So I pulled the trigger and picked up the Venom 5-25x56. Are you guys aware of any ARD's that will fit the front?? I see some 56mm ones but none of them list Vortex as being compatible.
@@kjh1227 We are not aware of any, but Tenebraex is where we would recommend looking. Are the ones you are looking at threaded in or slipping over the objective?
Do a 10 minute talk on 6.5x55 plz
What rifle is that 300WSM? Tikka?
It's a Browning A-Bolt. That model has morphed into the AB3, though you might find an A-Bolt used. I know it is this brand of rifle because I saw some earlier episodes dealing with his rifle, especially around the time of Mark's black bear hunt, where he actually got to use his Browning A-Bolt .300 Win Short Mag.
@@ronws2007 THANK YOU!
3min till the intro starts. We read the title.
You forgot follow through
9 out 10 bubble levels are not plumb to the action or the reticle.
You seem to have some knowledge on this. What’s the best method to get everything level? I’ve used wheeler scope mounting kits where you transfer the action level to a barrel clamp, mount the rings and level the scope based off the barrel clamp level. Seems to be a lot of error when transferring level 3 times before the scope is torqued. If my scope body has enough clearance I love to avoid the bubbles altogether and shove a leveling wedge in between the scope base and bottom of turret body, then I just level my scope bubble when my crosshairs are lined up on a plumb bob. There’s always going to be a little human error eyeballing a bubble between 2 lines. I think the fact I’m getting as precise as I can with my scope level doesn’t mean my setup won’t be canted at all, I’ve just done the best I can and won’t be horribly canted when I take a longer shot.
@@ssgslaughter4639 I first use the Long Range Arms digital level, which mounts to the pic rail of the action and is accurate to .2 of a degree. Once the action is set, I use a wedge tool or Spuhr mount with the wedge to align the base of the scope to the action. When using the wedge, you must keep removing the wedge to ensure the wedge is not stuck between the action and scope base. If the wedge is stuck, you are putting unwanted tension on the scope. Also, removing the wedge and checking alignment ensures, as you torque the rings, you are not inducing cant based on your torquing method. I then mount the rifle outside to where it can't move when turning the turrets but is also level to .2 of a degree. From about 30yds away, I setup a plumb line and check to see how the reticle and scope tracks from top to bottom of the plumb line. At that point, you get to decide how much vertical tracking cant is acceptable to you. Nothing is perfect but this helps me sleep better.
Do you turn your head and shoulders when you pour milk? Eating a taco? Why.... why not.
Can anyone actually lay out time links where he actually discusses the 5 parts explicitly instead of the two hosts trying to make themselves sound relevant?
In the voice of Billy Connelly: Jimmy, Jim, Jimmy, Jim, Jimmy, Jim, Jim. Stop saying WIZEM.
Only one practice.if not let me ask you this. Is it better to shoot as a child, and learn all fundamentals at a young age. Or going to a course in your mid 30s and learning. The more you shoot them better you get ive been told by people that say no your not doing it right. The problem is if i can shoot better, shooting the way I shoot. Dont need to be told by someone who watched a video that im wrong at the same time ill listen try it to see any difference.
Link go bipod talked about. Google bring up ammuent park
Some schools teach to shoot with body at an angle (vs square behind the rifle). Example: school in Canada where they teach “Olympics style” shooting. So, it may not be a bad habit or sleeping position.