To me the reasons Ghibli characters are more effective is simply because they're quiet. Disney characters are always doing something, singing, moving, talking, everything is a task, their motion is their existence. But ghibli characters are so quiet. They pause, take their time, they exist in a world rather being the world. Disney characters are archetypes and they act as such. But ghibli characters are real. They may fill a role but they are alive on their own. They are living things beyond the story.
This is actually such a good point I hadn't thought about. You're right, Ghibli characters are so much more still than Disney. They take time to ponder, reflect, etc.
In reality people don't sing out of nowhere and don't talk and move so much, so yeah Ghibli character more real than this delusional princess with caffeine overdose😂
Unfortunately these days that's true. But the thing is they have released some pretty great movies the last 15 years. Zootopia, Princess & the frog, Moana, etc. they all have some great female characters and stories
@@vincenthoule5643 😡💢💢You'd better watch what you say!!! That's the most ASININE thing I've EVER heard! Hearing stuff like this really ticks me off! That's NOT gonna happen anymore!!! Disney DOES and WILL want to create another official Disney Princess movie with romance and without quirky personality, and I'm going to make that happen!!! And no, this isn't a joke whatsoever. I don't care what anyone says or thinks! Once I get to work at Disney as a screenwriter, I'll create beautifully written romance stories that audiences will love! It's high time that things have changed at Disney, and my friends and I are going to make those changes happen!
As a girl watching this, I agree that modern Disney films write TERRIBLE women. But, I don't think 90s films wrote "bad" women characters, and earlier Disney films (like from the 30s-50s) were still following very simplistic fairy-tail formats. So it was a different style for a different purpose and really not comparable. Having said that, yes. Modern Disney can't write female characters. But to be fair, it seems like they can't write original stories in general, so there's that.
That's the thing, some of the 90s female characters were great, like Mulan that I mention or even Meg from Hercules. I agree though that it's hard to compare those Disney classics because they were following fairy tale formulas, that being said I'm not arguing that, I'm simply debating what it takes for a well written female character to be portrayed and I don't think those classics portrayed that. Even if they weren't trying to! :) you get what I mean?
I actually like Rapunzel, Judy, Moana, and Mirabel (and Luisa! I love seeing a huge female character who isn't a villain), so we'll have to disagree on that point. But Asha, being the most recent, does poison the well a bit.
@@kelleyceccato7025 Zootopia was actually VERY well made story and character-wise. Very strong, and probably one of their strongest films in the last 10 years. Rapunzel was also well made, too. Those I'm not necessarily referring to. That said, many of them--like Moana and Mirabel, I felt were really flat. (And Raya's just awful). For instance, I actually enjoyed watching Moana, but she doens't grow that much. She's overly perfect, and her only flaw is mainly that she has to "believe" in "herself" more and be "true" to "herself." Yuck. Plus, it seemed really disingenuous that ALL the male characters were plot foils. Her dad is the only family member who doesn't support her, Maui (despite being a likable character and the one with the most character growth), is just there to be saved by Moana--emotionally, physically, and (it turns out), she didn't even NEED him in the climax. At best, he was a distraction (which, I learned later was because they changed his role at last minute). I like Moana, but those sorts of themes are weak and worn. And Mirabel's problem is that we simply don't have time to get to know her. She's cute and fun, but despite the movie being long, there are SO MANY characters crammed in there that we don't really get to know much about her beyond the stereotypical outcast of "no one gets me or appreciates me" troupe--nor did we really get to see her bonds with any of the characters beyond a couple minutes of surface-level scenes here or there because of the number of characters we had to interact with in a short time. What is her relationship with Luisa? We see it at a glimpse (in that it seems she's not as hostile toward Mirabel at least)--but their main interaction is a 3 minute song that's more about Luisa's fears. And why is her relationship so heavy-handedly bad with her other sister? It's disproportionately hateful for just "you embarrass me." What about her other relationships? It's all just thrown in there really quickly with no real time to build upon or explore them more than an animated short's worth of content. Even the resolution with Bruno is fast. Apparently, they went from his name being taboo and them blaming him for everything to 100% being happy to see him (As if they hadn't just sung an entire song about how he was trouble and creeped them all out). It was too fast. So, that's more what I meant about writing terrible women. It's like everything Disney releases lately starts as a "good idea" that never was fully polished or explored before it's release.
@@iamSketchHmoana has a whole character arc from being incompetent to becoming a confident leader and saves her people!? saying we don’t know much about mirabel is funny because she’s actually one of the most fleshed out protagonists and we see almost every facet of her personality in the movie? you say we don’t know much about her relationships what about the scenes with Antonio, her mother?, even her and isabelas relationship evolves over the movie. I don’t understand when you say we don’t get to know her when the movies progression is centered on her and her insecurities and her goals and her flaws
@@ReedSolutions she was basically using the flower's power for so long, she was sooo old like she shouldve been dead long ago. so when rapunzel's hair's effect wore off the kidnapper mother, she turned to dust. she was basically dead if you know what i mean
i like how the male characters in ghibli ADD value to the female main characters (and also the other way around). the dragon guy quietly supporting chihiro and being by her side, howl bringing confidence to sophie, ashitaka shows monomoke the beauty of humanity, the castle in the sky guy helps her homeland and gave her comfort. meanwhile, the goat in wish? idk what he really did
Important to also say that the male leads don't fall into the modern "feminist" trope of "supportive male", i.e. be the cheerleader. Ashitaka challenges San, he's a strong, willful, and noble hero whether San exists in his life or not, he's not just there to be her cheerleader or just a plot device for her growth. That makes his relationship with her so much more meaningful. So Princess Mononoke gets to be a movie with meaningful female empowerment without shitting on men, unlike the way modern western media tries to do it.
How was Disney shitting on men? They animated Grimm fairy tales where women were only safe if they married a wealthy male. Back in the day men use to incarcerate women and children en mass then send them to slave for rich people as punishment for not being a man who was allowed to fight back. Used those poverty slaves to start colonies. People are still damaged from that behavior. Exploring it in media is still fascinating. Men hate looking at it but yet are still making illegal laws, creating badly steered communities, and still complaining when a female tries to gain leadership.
@@Ashitaka255 That's why I call Ghibli "post-feminist". They have female leads with true strength; but they are not resentful, vengeful, or needing to prove how strong they are. Hollywood feminism is all of those negative things. We just need to understand that everyone is human and needs respect. The west wants to take a dump on whichever category they blame to continue the cycle of hatred and dehumanization. That's why anime and foreign film (the good ones) are a breath of fresh air. It's like living in a house where you go nose-blind and stepping outside. Suddenly you can breath again.
What I hope happens is Disney or any other animation company just stops thinking adorkable equals sympathetic. We aren’t all clumsy. 😭 Not that there is a problem with being a clumsy. Also, the fact that the internet prefers the original concept of wish where it’s a star boy and Asha vs an evil king and queen. Boy, where we robbed 💀 💔 Finally, the deeply human line at the end, I actually felt that. That was so beautiful written. A+ 🥹❤
Hahaha there's no problem with being clumsy or anything, but it's a problem when that's just something you resort to for your characters over and over 😭 and yeah I agree..wish they would've given us that version hahah So glad you liked it 🥹♥️ honestly makes me super happy to know you guys enjoy the videos
I always related to the Adorkable Princess, especially Repunzel, but that's because I, an autistic adhd girl, act exactly like that. But, each to their own *shrugs*
@@erinbathie-moore8478 I love it too, I just don't like it when it's used for characters over and over again. I just think it's good to have diversity in the personality traits of characters :)
I wanna see an adorkable villain commit just the worst atrocities (maybe not intentionally but also with no remorse, y’know?) in a movie that takes them 100% seriously and then watch the fans try to justify the behavior on the basis of the adorkableness.
Disney movies set in Hawaii have to be approved by an Hawaiian cultural group. That’s why they’re always superior. They literally dictate how the characters can look and act. Like Moana was supposed to throw coconuts in one scene because she was angry and they changed it because that would be disrespecting food.
I would also argue Mulan (from the animation, not that awful remake). As a little girl, I looked up to her. She didn't quite fit in the role society had for her, but she also wasn't as strong as men were. Instead, she was able to find her strengths in combining her intellect and physical fitness/technique into saving the day. Stopping Shan-yu's army by creating an avalanche with their last rocket, climbing a pole while carrying weights by using the weights to her advantage, having her friends dress up to trick the guards etc. made her into a powerful, strong woman without the need to make her unnaturally (physically) strong. She doesn't singlehandedly roundhouse kick 3 guys coming after her (thanks, Peter Pan remake with Wendy fighting off 2 grown male pirates whose swords she casually blocks and deflects....). And in the end, even though Mulan had to hide her femininity to be allowed into the male army (in a reckless attempt of saving her father), she was still able to be feminine AND she got the guy after saving China. And all of that was thanks to her own efforts, hard work and dedication. I felt inspired as a little white girl in the 90's and wanted to be like Mulan: intelligent, but strong enough to help myself and to not be held back by my physical form as female. Mulan went through significant character development, or rather, character growth as she discovered her own strengths and self-worth. To this day, Mulan is my favourite Disney female character and I still identify with her a lot!
Because miyazaki is a creator that sees women as worthy and different to men at the same time. Hollywoof only sees women as worthy when they are masculine (nothing against masculine women. What i mean is that they only see as worthy women who are physically strong, leaders, who talk loud and firm and prefer generally male stuff, like motorcycles, violent sports, etc)
@@yoonahkang7384 How are Mirabelle, Asha and Moana masculin ? Because they are not in an all pink dress ? Because they are not quiet ? Even Raya still feminin. The only we could be seen as masculin could be Mulan and yet only when she pretend to be a man
I hate that women (and all female animals) often just feel like subcategories. Like there are humans, then there are the "female variants". This is just how men, once upon a time, shaped society to view them and it often shows in all forms of media. To have a strong female character, have a STRONG WRITTEN CHARACTER and go from there. So this is indeed what I like about Ghibi's characters, they are written as strong CHARACTERS first and foremost.
Absolutely. When it comes to the writers room tr conversation and thought should be 'how do we write a compelling and amazing character', the gender should never be a part of it
@@miguelmunuera2601 I disagree with your second statement - I think their gender can affect how your character views things and can be very meaningful for your audience if it’s addressed!
Ariel wasn't motivated by eric! She always wanted to be on land. She is more boy crazy in the animation then in the new live-action, but the sentiment is the same. Her love for the land exceeds her love for him. Ultimately, Ursula takes her voice in exchange for the promise of being on land forever, not having Eric's love forever.
@@willlyon7129 People says that the true main character is her father because the movie is about him accepting that is daughter is becoming an adult but then most of his devloppement is offscreen and a good part of the movie would be useless
@@willlyon7129she gets consequences! And she got preyed on when she was emotionally vulnerable. I’d say her dad is pretty realistic but his actions weren’t good also “racism” and Ariel’s actions weren’t good either but she’s still a kid figuring herself out.
One of the most apt Ghibli-to-Disney heroine comparisons might be Kiki to Elsa. Both of them have magical powers, but while Elsa's vulnerability may feel, as you say, like a plot device, Kiki's vulnerability feels real, which makes it all the more rewarding when she takes flight and saves the day (and the guy) at the climax. Kiki and Shizuku (Whisper of the Heart) are my favorite Studio Ghibli heroines, and I feel they don't always get the appreciation they deserve. Thanks for giving Kiki the shout-out. I would argue, however, that Disney's "Down With Love" tendencies actually began with The Emperor's New Groove. Prior to this film, adult male Disney protagonists had love interests, and those love interests were often pretty great characters (e.g. Meg, Esmeralda, Jane). Kingdom of the Sun was originally supposed to include a romantic subplot, but when the project got scaled down into The Emperor's New Groove, it became a male-buddy comedy. Only later did Disney decide its heroines didn't need love interests any more than its heroes did. The most regrettable difference, for me, is that while the non-romantic emphasis in the male-led movies has generally been guy-guy friendship... well, we haven't really seen anything similar for its heroines. Their ride-or-die friend, when they have one, generally turns out to be a guy (e.g. Nic Wilde, Maui). Where are the girl-girl friendships that occupy a substantial role in the story? Answer: they're at Ghibli (e.g. Kiki and Ursula, Chihiro and Lin, Anna and Marnie. Even San and Moro kind of count.) The only female friendship in animation that challenges the Ghibli ones in importance, development, and complexity, is that of Robyn and Mebh in Cartoon Saloon's excellent Wolfwalkers.
Very good point! Shizuku is also one of my fave characters, I would've loved to give her some shine as well since she's kind of underrated but I thought the video was too long already hahah
Female friendships: I want to include Madame Gina and Fio from Ghiblis Porco Rosso. The first time I watched it, I thought they would somehow start a obvious rival fight of who is the better girlfriend for Porco ala ladida-romantic love-triangle drama like in so, soooo many movies. Boy I enjoyed this unexpected outcome. At the end of the movie I believe Fio even says that they (Gina & Fio) stayed in touch and visited each other every once in a while the following years. So refreshing. I'm a week to late for this comment, but I'm happy to finally speak this out loud 😅 Edit: spelled unexpected wrong
@@miguelmunuera2601 She has some similarites with Nausicaa; both are the princess of a small kingdom/village; both have to go on a quest where they interact with the violent outside world to save to prevent the destruction of everything alive; in the end they save the world by showing compasion to a being that appear at first dangerous. But the tone of the two movies are so different that in the end Nausicaa and Moana are really different.
I don’t see that personally. Moana is shown to do a lot of extraordinary things, as well as being absurdly gifted. Ghibli heroines tend to be rather ordinary and mundane, aside from a special skill or two.
I love how Ghibli treats male and female characters equally. Unlike Disney where the girls always have to be girl bosses while the guys are just accesories or slaves to them
true. Not only are they messed up for girls, they're messed up for boys too. You're even this big strong dumb hunk prince who saves the underage girl, or a big strong dumb hunk love interest who's used as just "the guy".
@@eleonorepb4565- pretty sure the OP was talking about all _modern_ Disney movies. They didn’t do this most of the time in older Disney movies, but they always do nowadays. The male characters are always cow towing to the female characters’ “girlboss brilliance”.
@@milo_thatch_incarnate The guy in Moana is quite important, he has some funny aspect but the main character too, he is actually way more devlopped and important than the princes in Snow White, Cinderella,Sleeping Beauty or the Little Mermaid.
This is a fantastically written video, Miguel! I especially liked your talk about allowing female characters to be strong and independent while also being vulnerable and having room to grow. These days, it’s very common that female characters are portrayed as nearly perfect with no obvious flaws, but that just isn’t realistic or relatable. I love it when artists, writers, and directors let their characters be human; let them be wrong, let them learn, and let them grow into better people because of it. Again, this is a great video and I’m excited to see more of your content in the future! 👏
This honestly made my day. I'm so glad this video resonated with you, I was super excited to talk about the topic and share it with you all 🥹♥️ it's SO IMPORTANT to get female characters right and so many studios/companies just fail miserably. Hopefully we can continue to get better written girls and women in the movies we watch :)
@@miguelmunuera2601 Exactly! I’ve been watching Disney-owned studios like Marvel and Star Wars evolve over these past few years, and a very emphasized theme seems to be the kick-ass female character; it’s like we’ve forgotten that women can be strong while exhibiting other positive traits like compassion, kindness, self-sacrifice, and so on and so forth. The Star Wars character, Omega, is an example of a female character who’s journey and development felt so refreshing to me. The writers of the Bad Batch let her be a kid, let her make mistakes, and let her simply be human. Her starting traits weren’t kick-ass at all; she was curious, sweet, and loved her family of defective clone brothers. She was far from perfect, she knew little about the world outside and her curiosity often got her in trouble, but her heart was in the right place and her brothers taught her how to survive and help others survive in the age of the oppressive Empire. And that’s why it was so amazing to see her grow from a young, inexperienced child with no knowledge of the world to a young woman ready to fight in the Rebellion. Her more confident self slowly took form over the course of three whole seasons, and it pays off in the most beautiful way when she helps children just like her break out of an Imperial facility, using everything her brothers taught her to cause a massive diversion and sneak out safely. I absolutely love her journey, and she’s realistic and relatable, too. Such an awesome character; I am always eager to see more characters like her pop up in media.
I think most people forget Ariel was always interested in the surface world, the fact she met a handsome Prince in addition was just the cherry on top.
@miguelmunuera2601 well yeah she needed to kiss him in order secure her legs and retain her voice. Also people don't give Eric enough credit for his compassion; he finds a naked disabled woman with probable head trauma alone on the beach and he takes her in and nurses her back to health.
@@willlyon7129Dude, that all mess happened because of Ariel's actions. Ursula tricking her, taking over the ocean, Triton being turned to a plant all happened because of Ariel's actions. Have you even watched the movie? 😑
While I overall agree with your assessment of Studio Ghibli writing better female characters, I completely disagree about the part that so many of the Disney princess characters were badly written. If you were only referring to the modern ones, then yes, I would agree, but it seems like you are trashing on almost all of them saying that we love them despite them being "badly written", especially if they are part of a romantic plot even if that romantic plot is well written. The 90s ones I feel don't deserve that kind of trashing. As for the classic ones, most of them don't really do much and were made to follow a fairy tale format. Characters like, Belle and Rapunzel were not solely focused on their future romantic partners, they just wanted to do more in life, and their romances with their partners were built up naturally over the course of their films. Ariel also initially didn't want to go to the human world because of Eric, she wanted to go there because of what they do and what she can explore. It was Ursula who made up this rule that she had to fall in love with Eric.
Yeah there are definitely some that I think are great! Like I mentioned Mulan for example. I think Belle and Rapunzel are also great female characters for sure :) That is true about Ariel but that lasted for very little of the movie until she met Eric so idk (that doesn't mean I don't love her tho)
@@Simon-A.-Tan 😡💢💢What kind of ASININE bs is that?! How DARE you say such STUPID words?! Most of the old Disney characters are NOT "worse garbage with zero depth to them"!!! NONE of them are garbage at all! They do have a LOT of depth to them!!! You'd better watch your mouth before you say something you'll sorely regret later on!!!
In general Disney's movie are more superfical (just compare the Little Mermaid to Andersen's story) but some of its characters movies are well written, Lilo is a realistic depiction of a child having to deal with her parent's death and her big sister who had to be the adult of the house despit being a young adult herself.
Lilo is actually a great example, I honestly completely missed thinking about her I wish I could've mentioned her in the video. She's a great and realistic depiction of a child going through what she went through 100%
@@miguelmunuera2601 We also have Tiana from the Princess of the Frog who , even if not as well written as most Ghibli’s character, is a bit more complexe than most other princesses, sadly she is one of the least popular.
Ikr I hate the Disney version of Little Mermaid for a multitude of reasons. Like, I can write a whole hate essay on the Disney Little Mermaid, but I love Ponyo and that it's based off the OG Hans Christian Anderson version of Little Mermaid
The concept of Love futher explains Wish's lost potential. In the originial script, Asha was supposed to be accompanied by a Starboy was was meant to be her love interest. Not because all characters need a love interest in movies, but Starboy was meant to help Asha grow from her original reserved and pessimistic personality (Yes, this was the Asha we were originally going to get. Not the adorkable one we have now). Even if her and Starboy just remained friends, love in all shapes and sizes helps characters develop, feel relatable in their interactions and makes them complex, which is what would've been done for Wish had Disney not been so afraid of taking chances
Although I 100% agree with this, I dug into this theory and apparently Starboy was supposed to be Sabino, but a younger version of him apparently. So that would've been a friendship. I still would've loved for them to have given her a love interest tho 🥹
@@Simbala-bq5vy It's in the concept art. And I don't know if Starboy was supposed to be Asha's love interest, but like I stated earlier, they didn't need to be in love because love can be platonic as well
Some of these things also apply to many animes. Female characters most times are there only to be eye candy for the male audience. They don't have a personality nor goes through self growth, their lives most times revolves around a male character. This is honestly one of the reasons i stopped watching anime.
That's very true. A lot of the time they're just there for eye candy 100%. Naruto is a good example of many female characters not done great.. (Sakura and Karin)
You should watch Attack on Titan. It has many female characters that have their own goals and do things because of their own strength. Yes, I agree Mikasa's arc revolves mostly around Eren and his actions, but I see it more like a sister trying protect a brother. What I also like about this anime, is that female characters are not overly sexualized. They don't have typical "waifu look" on them but actually have quite realistic bodies.
I greatly limited my selection of anime for that reason. You really have to do research to find good shows (just like with western animation). I could give some recommendations if you want.
@@Ghibli-Dudeman the same story here. My taste is so specific and I will not put myself through things I don’t have to see. It’s hard to find the good stuff but when you do it’s really worth it
I would also like to point out that most of Disney's main Heroins, especially the princesses, look often the same. Sure they have a different hair colour or, like these days, even a different ethnicity, but they also have the same slim figure and height. I really would love to see more representation for differnt body shapes and sizes
@@Kotifilosofi I mean, if you have the same guy to make the character design for every movie, then of course many of the characters will look very alike. I mean, that happened even more to 2D Dreamworks movies too, to the point I'm slightly surprised Altivo from Road to El Dorado and Spirit don't look the same but with different colours.
Kinda reminds me Frozen and how literally every female character looks exactly the same: the idunna, elsa, and anna. All have the exact same body and face with big eyes, teensy nose, and tiny slim waist. The mom is supposed to be middle aged but she looks the same age as the daughters who are in their early twenties. Compare the female characters to the male characters-agnarr, kristoff, hans. all look different, different face and body type. but the women get to be generic barbie dolls.
Imo, some disney MCs that have great development matching close to ghibli females are Mirabel from Encanto, Moana & Mulan. -Mirabel shows how she wants to be recognized by others but in the end, her inner character is in & itself, special & beautiful all along. (Depicted well in the song “All of You”) -Moana shows how she fully embraces her adventurous side by her own will & not solely because of her ancestors’ call. (Depicted in the “I am Moana” song) -Mulan, as we know, tells us how she breaks the norm & finds her life purpose in order to protect her family & beloved. They all grew facing their flaws & insecurities throughout the series, I like it. Im sharing this from my perspective as a ghibli fan since my childhood..
Mulan, yeah. But Moana and Mirabel? Sure they are likable and heroic in their own way but I wouldn’t call them great characters because they aren’t given much depth. Tell me why exactly Moana feels attracted to the ocean? The movie never bothers to tell you why, it shows her fascinated by the ocean for reasons unspecified and then she grows up with everyone telling her to stay away from the ocean. If you grew up your whole life being told something is dangerous, why do you feel compelled to it? Is it a form of rebellion? Nope. Is she just fascinated by the ocean because plot? Yes. And what are her flaws? She is a little quirky? Thats not a flaw! As for Mirabel…her entire personality is “I’m ordinary.”
I like Mirabel. She’s one where “adorkable” works. She’s supposed to be an oddball who doesn’t fit in, she hast fit in since she was very little and she’s accepted it while everyone else is killing themselves to be perfect.
Nah. Moana wants to explore. She knows there’s a whole world out there. Some people are just like that; they want to see what’s across the horizon or on the other side of the mountain. Voyagers are like that. Still agree she’s one-dimensional and boring overall.
@Personally I think they were a good product of their time. But maybe dated nowadays! I will give you that. But do you think being fun and entertaining can be enough? I would like to know your opinion.
@@A-Ni-MeInspired Well, that's going to change once I get to work at Disney as a screenwriter. I plan to create animated movies with amazing, brilliant storylines and well-written, likable, relatable characters. It's high time that Disney's attitude towards female characters got improved. And I aim to improve it.
This video really got my brain buzzing. Just dreamed up an entirely new element to add some nuance to one of the female characters in a story I’m writing. Thanks for sharing these great insights.
I don’t consider mulan to be written by Disney…? Since it’s been a traditional Chinese tale that was originally written by a poet in ancient china and as a child growing up I’ve heard a lot about mulan’s story whether from my grandparents, documentaries or children’s book. I only found out years later that it was a Disney movie…
Yeah definitely but it's an adaptation so they have creative liberties as to how they want to tell the story, so technically they did write most of what Mulan is like in the movie :) it's not a 1:1 retelling of the ancient Chinese story at all
Apparently Mulan was a real girl as well ( I don't know if that's true !) and her story is supposed to represent that of filial piety that's a core part of Chinese culture.
Well that's also the case for most Disney movies, who were adaptations of European tales (Cinderella, Pinocchio, Beauty and the Beast, The little mermaid and I could go on for a very long time)
Excellent point about Elsa from Frozen. Her anxiety and vulnerability makes her stand out against other disney female characters because it adds a extra layer of complexity but, as you said, her vulnerability does feel like a plot device, its there to move the story along and when the movie ends, all of that fear and anxiety just disappears and everything feels so superficially resolved just so we can get that fairytale happy ending. Even the citizens of her kingdom just immediately forget that she nearly froze them to death and just start ice skating with her. Its a shame because Frozen is such a great film but its largely hindered by a serious lack of character development.
Female Disney characters are not badly written or unreliable, Elsa is a really strong example of someone who struggles with anxiety on a daily basis and she learns to cope with it from the support of her loved ones, Tiana had to learn to look at the different perspectives of life, Moana went on a journey to save her home and she had moments where she wasn’t sure of what she was doing
When I was watching princess Mononoke, I was thrilled when I was introduced to Lady Eboshi AND SHE WAS A VILLIAN! She was strong because of her compassion, leadership, guts of steel! she wasn’t pure good or evil. She had ambition that lined up with who she is and her surroundings. She wasn’t a statement, she was a PERSON!
Thank you. Ive been struggling with trying to make my female characters more relateable and didnt know if I was doing a good job. This video was very informative and now I can compare. 😊
Great video, but I still disagree that Ariel is a reactive and passive character who is only motivated by a man. Her main drive was also to go to on land, since she felt like an outsider under the sea and wanted to escape her controlling father. She wanted to do that long before Eric came into the picture. Plus, she makes plenty of active choices throughout the movie. Like before Sebastian sings under the sea, she immediately starts making plans to talk with Eric to show him as her true self. It's just that Ursula made her change those plans after her father destroyed her collection. She still made the choice to take the deal and saves Eric multiple times. Granted, I would've liked it more if Ariel learnt that the real world has just as much problems as hers, but we have to deal with issues as they come, but that would've been a different movie. In fact, I think the most of the 90s princesses are well written, though I wish Jasmine and Pocahontas were more fleshed out. I just think some of the modern Disney female characters could have been written better minus ones like Judy, Moana and Rapunzel. Disney has placed a bigger importance on "strong female characters" and "adorkability" in more recent years that they forgot to make their female characters flawed and real. (Not counting the early ones, since their goal wasn't to make them relatable back then, but on retelling a fairy tale and showing off the animation.) I'm also surprised that you never mentioned Nani and Lilo in this. They were super relatable, being girls suffering after the loss of their parents. They can be messy, make mistakes and things don't always go right for them. They're the most Ghibli-like leads in the whole lineup so far.
Honestly you're absolutely right, I should've mentioned Lilo and Nani in the relatable section, they're such great characters imo. And I definitely understand where you're coming from in the Ariel part, it's true that she was definitely motivated by getting to know the human world, it just felt like to me after she meets Eric that her motivations are like 80% Eric-centric for the rest of the movie. I just would've loved to see her explore her love for the human world a bit more, and have that emphasized. I guess that's also kind of hard when you don't have a voice though hahah
But here's the thing you don't realize how many Leading female characters there are Ghibli films Because they're just written so well that they're not trying to be oh so heroic and I don't need a man I'm a strong independent independent woman!
I agree on that. Chihiro needed the help from Haku to get into the bathhouse and Haku encouraged her when he shared the riceballs with her. She also relied on Kamachi and Lin. Chihiro took the help because she needed it while trying to do things on her own when needed, like visiting Zeniba or doing her job in the bathhouse.
In my opinion, Eboshi is one of the most interesting characters Ghibli has. One of my favourites for sure. Eboshi is indeed strong and independent woman, and not just "because". She had a nightmarish background and saw world's worst sides, saw what men are capable of and what women have to go through. She cares for her people and is willing to take any risks to protect and provide them, she cares even for those nobody wants to care for. Eboshi rescues girls from being used and basically enslaved, just like the way she once was, and gives them a job. An absolute badass of a leader. And even despite the grudges she may have against men, she still treats them as people, not as monsters. What's important, despite the absence of "villains", which is another great part of this movie, we can see two sides (and Ashitaka in the middle of it all). Most of the viewers are probably rooting for San's side or Ashitaka, as I see. And it's clear why, because what Eboshi does is kinda cruel and extreme. She's stubborn and quite narrow-minded, basically does not believe in "peace" between sides. She has flaws and her actions lead to terrible mistakes. But even so, she admitts and learns from them in the finale. Also her motives are quite understandable despite the recklessness of the methods she uses. She is in the middle of the war where they are either the ones to lose and die or win and keep living. They live on the territory with access to iron and other resources, which they use to trade, to improve their town and self-protection. They Need It. The iron is the blood running through their veins. So it means Eboshi has to invade the forest and fight with its' inhabitants for the territory and resources to protect her own people, she isn't doing that because she "hates nature" or "stupid" or simply a "villian". Just like when she heads to hunt down the Spirit of the Forest she's guided not by "arrogance", "hatred" and "naiveté ", but garantee for safety and wealth the emperor promised to her and her people for doing that. Have anybody ever wondered why the Spirit never tried to actually stop her? Because he was weak or just couldn't? I believe it's simply because this confrontation is natural to it. That's the way people work and the world we live in. Everyone wants to live. Eboshi isn't evil to the Spirit. She's just a human fighting for those important to her, those she swore to protect. Her reasons are believable, the situation is difficult. She's a noble and firm leader, yet caring and responsible woman with her flaws and delusions. I love her. And just "Princess Mononoke" in general ❤
Eboshi represents order, humanity, and its industrial side. Yes, of course she damages the nature San and the rest of the spirits try to protect, but as you said, she doesn't do it because of malevolence or ignorance, but because, as any other creature on this world, humans also need to consume, to survive. Also, one thing that many people disregard, is the fact that Eboshi welcomes Ashitaka and offers him a place to stay, while San lashes out at him almost every time, thus showing both the warmth of the order humanity and civilization provides, as well as the cruelty of mother nature and the wilderness shows to anyone, as life in the wild is based on the survival of the fittest.
@@Burn_AngelI've also seen people say that Eboshi is greedy, but I don't see evidence of that in the movie, she does mention that the land she's in will become rich, but she says that to Ashitaka when she first meets him and is trying to get him to stay so I do believe she was trying to appeal to his greed (that he doesn't have anyway). She gets the iron out of need to keep the town working and fed and to trade for what she can't get from her surroundings, she keeps the forest creature away with violence because her town's survival depends on the business, she helps Jigo because she owes him for favours and doesn't want to get on the bad side of the emperor, she goes after the forest spirit because of this and also because she thinks his blood could heal the lepers. In the end nothing of what she does is selfish even tho it might seem that way on the surface. People just want her to be worse than she already is because they're not accustomed to a narrative without a clearly defined villain I think.
George RR Martin was asked how he makes well written female characters. His response: "I've always considered women to be people." All the little points you bring up I think fit into that statement rather neatly. A real person can be complicated. They can be strong in some ways and weak in others. They can have a career and a romantic interest separate from each other. Some are smart, others dumb. Some are brave, and others cowards. When you try to write a character with all the little details that make up the sum of a real human being, then they feel much more authentic to the viewer. The sex or gender is mostly irrelevant.
For me personally when writing female characters, I tend to push the factor of gender for the last. Make the characters unique without letting gender define the character as a whole.
ghibli also doesn't hesitate to show different sides of female characters. sophie was shy and insecure, chihiro is whiny, annoying but genuinely relatable, mononoke was badass, cool. disney has been trying too hard to appeal to the new generation of "women has to be badass, quirky, funny" and i think thats their problem
Is it me or Nala, despite not being the main character, is better than most female Disney characters? Think about it. 1. She, as a kid, wasn't treated no different from Simba by the movie (expect for the obv stuff, like him being the prince) She was an energetic kid that likes to play with fire, just like him. 2. When they grow up she didn't run away to find Simba, and even when she does, love wasn't why she wanted him back - she cared for her people and wanted to help them. She still fell in love with him, but he WASN'T her goal and she was ready to give up on him because he hurt her and, in a way, betrayed her and their pride by refusing to come back. She expressed vulnerability to him, but she also showed to him that the pride meant the most to her. He wasn't merely a love interest, he was her friend and the help her people needed. Once they came back she didn't stay silent neither - she also spoke out and then fought alongside Simba. People may tend to overlook her, as she had lot less screen time and wasn't the main character, but she feels like a female character that could potentially be seen as pretty well written female character.
I fucking love Nala, and I agree with you ngl - she's a great character. That being said though I'm so sad she didn't get more screentime. It would've been awesome to see a glimpse of her life while Simba was growing up with Timon & Pumba. It would've given us so much more context for things
@@miguelmunuera2601 After rereading, I think I went too overboard with what I wrote, and it's definitely going out of topic. Won't be surprised if you don't read it😅 I just really love this franchise.... *Anyway.* There's a lot of stuff I wish we could have seen more of when it comes to The Lion King in general. This is one of the only Disney franchises that feels like it could benefit from fourth or even fifth movie. Ariel didn't need continuation of her story, nor did Cinderella or Beauty and The Beast.. But The Lion King is different. The Lion King has many compelling characters, unlike some other movies, in which most characters are merely supporting cast or details to the story. The movie makes you wonder about who Rafiki is? What was Simba's time with Timon and Pumbaa like while growing up? What was Nala and the rest of the lionesses time while under Scar's regime? Why are Scar and Mufasa so different and why did they hate eachother? How did Scar get his scar? I could list many more questions lol. All characters are either interesting and mysterious, or just fun to follow and watch, making you want more of them. Another thing that makes The Lion King feel like franchise that could not only benefit from, but in my opinion, NEEDS more movies.. is it's overarching theme. The circle of life. The first movie shows us the birth of the prince, the balance of the ecosystem, the end of a king, the consequences of betraying said balance and the new beginning.. but it also teached us about the loss of the ones we love, legacy, responsibility and love. The second movie teaches us about forgiveness, second chances and how past mistakes shouldn't be held over the heads of the newer generation.. it teaches peace, and in a way, goes over several things that were off with the original movie. Scar's design was a stark contrast to every other character in the movie, which is cool for character design.. but also feels weird that the antagonist is marked through visual design. The second movie shows us that it isn't your upbringing, your parents or even your looks that make you a bad person - it's you. Kovu chose not to be like Scar, and so he wasn't. The third movie was mostly comedic, which I love, but it also showed a glimpse at the backstories of many of the beloved characters while also letting us see more about Simba's cubhood, teenagehood and how Timon and Pumbaa handled it. What I think would fit perfectly alongside all these is a movie where it's time for Simba to step down and let Kiara and Kovu take over. Think about it - all of the movies followed steps in Simba's life, and the last missing piece is him passing his legacy to the next generation. It could teach a lot to adults who struggle with realising their own limitations once their prime passes and also help them give more trust to their successors. The movie could also show Kiara and Kovu preparing for the future, show their growth together. This would feel like a fitting ending for the franchise imo.
@@Simbala-bq5vy Ikr? If anything, she's one of the rare love interest that has personality, goals and feelings other than "Oh, I love the protagonist and need to be saved/win over".
@@Emz_yeleveleThere's another lion king movie coming soon in December 2024 - it's called Mufasa The Lion King. Talks about Mufasa's life before Simba. It's not animation, and many people may dislike it but I really like these "live action" CGI films. Worth watching to know more about The Lion King's series for anyone who's a fan.
Although I tend to prefer Ghibli as a whole, Belle is my favorite character from either by far. Whether she's twiddling her fingers behind the tree, pushing a strand of hair back, or mocking the idea of being Gaston's wife, she's just so alive and brimming with warmth and depth.
I absolutely ADORE Belle. She might be one of my favourites as well along with Mulan and Tiana. But Belle is just the cutest 🥹 plus I'm a sucker for girls that read
@@miguelmunuera2601 We have similar taste! Mulan was my fave as a little girl and Tiana plain rules. I prefer the Disney ladies who seem like they do their own taxes. Esmeralda and Kida are also high up there for me. I agree fully with you on Ariel. She may have "wanted to go to the surface before Eric" but Eric was the reason she DID, and getting his approval is the one and only goal. I don't actually care if love is the goal but she knew less about him than the OG princesses did before they committed. That's saying something. She's the rare Disney princess I think is genuinely a bad role model. Kiki, San, Taeko, Sheeta and Nausicaa are my top Ghibli gals. 😄
@@bespectacledheroine7292 oh my god ESMERALDA!! I can't believe I forgot to mention her in the video damnit 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ she's incredible too and would definitely do her own taxes hahaha And yeah definitely, I don't mind love being the sole focus of a story, I'm a romantic, but it has to make sense you know? (All of those ghibli girls are incredible, great taste ;)
@@miguelmunuera2601 Esmeralda is shafted by Disney itself because I guess she's the exact opposite of "the BrandTM", so it's understandable. No less a legend to me. More so than Mulan honestly because although she's a good character she fell into heroism because of familial duty over desire per se. Esmeralda is a heroine by choice. And yeah, I call myself a hopeful, not hopeless, romantic. Hope for the best but expect the worst and all. Sheeta and Castle in the Sky generally are so underappreciated.
@bespectacledheroine7292 that's actually a very good point of desired herione vs not..I hadn't thought about that but you're right! Castle in the sky 🥹🥹
What can I say? A splendid video, which I agree with from start to finish! [insert "Homelander perfect" meme] I add a personal consideration: I re-watched The boy and the heron, where the protagonist is a boy. Nonetheless, there are three female figures who have an impact on his life: at the beginning, he does not approve of his father's relationship with Natsuko, but the journey into the fantasy world leads him not only to recover, in part, the bond with his mother , but also to get to know one of the servants of the house where he resides in the human world, who turns out to be very different from the fearful old lady who accompanied him. Each of the three teaches Mahito one thing, and this is a trait that is found in almost all Ghibli films: the protagonist is educated and grows thanks to the support of other characters (Chihiro), or his actions have consequences for other characters ( Sophie). This is a characteristic that could be found in several less recent Disney films: in Aladdin, for example, Jasmine does not undergo a real change, but influences the character of the protagonist, leading him to mature. If he first wanted to use the Genie's powers to conquer Jasmine, once he starts dating her seriously he no longer knows if it's the right thing to do. Hercules begins his journey to become divine again, but his meeting with Megara leads him to understand that what matters to him is not accessing Olympus. But beyond my mumblings, a really interesting video. Congratulations!🍻 Just as a suggestion: it would be very interesting to hear your opinion on the growth of the Berserk characters.
What an awesome comment 🥹 always appreciate these! And the new perspective you give on the video too is super interesting. That's a great point that a lot of these characters usually have great side characters to help them grow and to propel them further. Might be interesting to make a video on support characters and the part they play in a great film 👀 Unfortunately in terms of berserk I haven't watched/read it yet 😭 but I have the first few chapters!
Ghiblis female characters are written the way they are, because the writers are interested in human beings and want to tell stories about humanity. The way Disney writes their characters the way they do is because they want to adopt a certain ideology or cater to a certain audience. In one case, the writing is organic and genuine, in the other case, its formulaic and shallow. (As a side not: Ghiblis characters are so good because the writers most probably do not apply something as superficial as the bechdel-test.)
Great video dude! Both studio Ghibli and Arcane have AMAZINGLY written women (and men). In fact, there's a UA-camr named Schnee who goes in depth into how Arcane writes men and women (and the differences in their writing), and I highly recommend you check him out. (if I ever right a book, I'll probably use his video as a reference guide)
Thanks so much!! Yeah you're right, Arcane has amazingly written characters 😍 and season 2 is out today so I'm so excited. I'll definitely check him out cause that sounds like a super interesting video :)
Actually Disney at one point did make female characters that were realistic. Like Esmeralda from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Megan from Hercules, and Kida from Atlantis. To me I found them more realistic than the Disney princesses. You have Esmeralda who is fighting for her people's rights, Megan who doesn't need a man to rescue her, and Kida who is a powerful strong female warrior. But as time went on they were forgotten along with other female characters that show that the world is not a fairy tale. Disney took that away because it didn't fit with how other people felt and now people barely talk about them. To me I always look up to them. I just wish that they got more respect as the years went on because they deserve to be a representation of female characters in Disney.
you gotta love how shallow Disney's philosophy goes. they don't seem to ask the question "**why** do men even want power?" ...SO WE CAN BE WORTHY OF THE LOVE OF A WOMAN. at the center, the foundation of every powerful male in history, is the necessity to procreate, to protect their procreation, to leave behind a legacy that their procreation can continue to use after the father dies. has Disney ever shown a woman gaining power so she can be worthy of a man? has Disney ever shown a woman gaining power so she can protect herself, her man, and their children? has Disney ever shown any philosophical depth on the topic of why one (male or female) should even want power?
2:50 HER VULNERABILITY IS THE *FOCUS* OF THE STORY That's the whole point. She's afraid of expressing love due to an accident and growing fear and then learns to do so
An excellent video essay, and I struggle to find anything I disagree with. I'm especially glad you called out Japanese anime and its blatant hypersexualization of women, and how improbable it would seem to be that Ghibli, a Japanese studio, is also the one shining light in the animation industry when it comes to creating the best female characters. A lot of people probably don't realize just how unique Hayao Miyazaki really is.
I think a Disney movie or more like Disney remake that should be mentioned is the 2015 Cinderella live action adaptation. The story added so much more depth to Cinderella's character as well as the Prince, which is more than welcome since we can actually see the two building up a relationship with somewhat realistic pacing. It becomes less of a "damsel in distress" story and instead shows how femininity can be powerful as well. Cinderella never gave up her femininity, kindness, and compassion in the remake, she stayed strong even after when she felt that all was lost. I think that this is what Disney should've strived for in my personal opinion, or at least something similar.
The body dismorphia thing wasn't talked about in this video but I'll add to that later, too. The main reason is that I just feel like characters like Shizuku and Kiki are more relatable for the majority of teenage girls than Disney princesses are. Growing up, the only princess I could relate to was honestly Anna in Frozen, and that movie came out when I was 11! Also I agree that Disney girls don't have as much depth and complexity unless we count Els and Anna, who we don't give enough credit to. Frozen used to be overhyped, but now it's underhyped. I think people were sick and tired of the marketing and "let it go" being played 24/7 in every public place. I think having Elsa and Anna as the two different women with two different goals, and both being accepted (like Elsa wanted to be her own boss queen and Anna wanted to find true love, and it was shown both being a positive thing). Also, I know the body dysmorphia thing wasn't tackled in this video but princesses like Ariel and Jasmin are too hyper sexualized, and they're supposed to be teenagers which is disgusting. Kiki, Shizuku, Arriety, they all have the bodytype of a normal teen girl. Also, the romance aspects in Kiki's delivery service and Whisper of the heart aren't forced like in the Disney movies. It's not like "I'm just a little bimbo in a tiny seashell bra that doesn't cover me, and I need a big strong man to save me" sort of thing. For Kiki and Shizuku, they aren't even interested at first but the male love interests actually help with their character development.
I couldn't agree with you more. Most Disney princesses are not relatable at all and aren't exactly depicted in a normal way as a teen girl should. That's why Ghibli does such a great job here..thanks a ton for the great comment! :)
one thing I can say as someone writing a very confident female character, there is a way to give them growth. I'm not saying you're wrong in some cases, but with my character, she is a very confident and enthusiastic artist. but the thing she lacks is the ability to truly connect with someone and have a real bond with people. Throughout the show, she learns empathy and other things she lacked at the beginning. You did make really good points here, though 👍
That's actually a really good point! You're right 100%. You don't have to start out with a totally flawed character, merely a character that has room to grow in some aspects for sure :)
i always thought Gibili is more story cantered, even if you take out the main characters, there is still a whole world to explore. If you take out Disney main character, there is nothing much there.
About the Ariel, tho. It's been like years since I've watched it when I was a child. But, either way, looking back, Disney could've focused and expanded more on the "mermaid feels pain walking on two legs" to show her strength as she needs to do so in everyday life, her persistence to live on land, undeterred by the pain and discomfort, wanting to be able to live normally without help, freely just like when she was on the sea. They could've also focused more on the 'living on land' part, like taking a stroll through town (with or without guide, hopefully not the prince tho), seeing how humans live and work, buying and interacting with stuff and people, old, young, men, woman; learning the difference between various cultures and things (like the way they live) from land and in the sea, maybe even made friends (playing with children, conversing with people similar to her age who isn't hostile, dismissive or catering to her, etc). She can even study, learning to write and read, about history, geography, law, etc from a strict but not mean teacher whose words paints a picture in one's mind (just like a storyteller). She can see how the prince works too, his responsibility as a Royal Family and how it relates to the people, etc. As I've said, it's been a long time since I've watched this, so maybe Disney shown some of the things I mentioned? Maybe, who knows. I only remember a few parts like her liking human things, signing a contract with the witch, saving the prince, the prince going to marry another woman (disguised witch), her father getting back that weapon thing (I forgot the name), and her marrying the prince.
No you're absolutely right. I wish they would've focused more on her learning about the human world (which was her initial goal in the first place anyway), but they barely explore that which is so sad
10:07 Wait, how does Mulan passes the Bechdel test while having only one female character, and Wreck-it Ralph doesn't?! (For those who don't remember, there's also Tamora who's pretty important, and _does_ speak to Vanellope, and _not_ about men.)
You can easily replace it by “Why (older) Disney’s female characters (may or may not) feel real (and newer characters just don’t)” The last good female characters from Disney were in Moana. From Pixar, Inside Out (or maybe Soul). From Marvel, Infinity War (part 1). From Lucas Film, Rebels and Clone Wars (forget the movies and series).
I don't think Disney did a bad job in the past with their female characters. It's only recently with Elsa, Raya, pretty much all of the females in the live action Disney remakes and Asha. A traditional, feminine woman getting swept off her feet by an ideal man due to her good nature is not poorly written female.
I agree that a feminine woman getting swept off her feet isn't a poorly written one, but she has to have more to her personality than just the romance, or her love for that man. If not she has 0 depth
the "woke" comment was really unecessary, great video overall, but refrain from using the word "woke" as a negative bc thats not what the word means and it just spreads misinformation
This is such a fascinating video but I am curious! Did you know that Howl's Moving Castle is based on the book of the same name by Diana Wynn Jones? A lot of Sophie's traits that this video mentioned were traits taken from the book.
I know!! And that's fucking awesome. sometimes adaptations screw things up and stray away from the OG material but Miyazaki did a great job with this one
The problem isn't that disney make bad female characters, they just make bad characters in general. Their male characters are no better really. They're also outlandish tropes of princes, street urchins, and the like. Ghibli and Disney are just very different things with different goals. Disney is making the most basic saccharine crap to appeal to kids and get big box office numbers and merchandising deals. Ghibli is serious art, the product of imagination and uncompromising vision of a creator who isn't so focusde on making good male or female characters, just making the best art they can.
Whisper of the heart os my favorite ghibli movie ever. The movie gets over looked all the time, but show a girl's growth in her craft where she has depth and meaning, but she also has moments of great friendship and love
There is a lot in this video that I can't agree with, simply becouse I think it takes a verry shallow look at disney movies, while in contrast grazing Ghibli movies with the indepth look they deserve. But on thing I can agree with, is that character development is handled extremly different between Ghibli and Disney. And I think there is a reason for it, that neather makes it good or bad, but explains it. That reason beeing the "nature" of the storys that are beeing told. By and larg, Ghibli movies are what many would consider "coming of age" stories. Thus they thrive on character development, since that is the entire point of a story like that. There are still antagonists and obstacles to overcome, but they are there to further the characters growing up. (This is also aided by the fact that many of those obstacles and atagonists are more abstract, rather than actual characters. Natural disaster, the loss of passion, greed, etc.) Disney movies on the other hand are more akine to "adventure" stories. You have your vilain or (easily) defeatable obstacle that needs to be overcome by the end of the movie. That's the main focus. The goal that needs to be reached. Thus character development takes a back seat and ocationaly only shows up in it's bare minimum. I think the best example for this is "The Lion King". A movie that by all acords could have been a coming of age story. But instead we skip all the "growing up" part. We get a montage of Simba growing from a cub to a lion, but we don't actually experience his coming off age. That's becouse the movies fokus is on Simba defeating Scar.
8:40 Minor point, but seeking out Prince Eric was more of a means to an end. Her main desire, even prior to meeting him, was to be a part of the human world due to her dissatisfaction with ocean life.
I love how you can explain such a complex idea without your videos being three hours long, it is so concise and engaging! And for a guy to be doing this type of video without making a type of comment that makes me pause just to cringe is incredible - and its such a plus that you cite ur sister all the time for perspective! 🤩
This made my day 🥹 thanks so much, I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I do try to make things concise but still packed with info. And of course, I love my sis so I'm glad I got to feature her in a vid :)
To be honest, your video is incredibly pleasant to watch, and even more pleasant to realize that you are perceived as a person who can be different. I loved watching anime from this studio since childhood and this helped to better understand people and not drive myself into the framework. You have done an amazing job and I am sure that a huge number of women are grateful to you for this video.💚✨
I think this is a great video but I was confused about the point about masculine female characters. I can't think of a single disney lead who was notably masculine, or any disney movie where the heroine is expected to give up feminine presentation because they're seen as 'lesser' or not as serious as characters with masculine presentation, and that expectation is portrayed as a good thing (ie, I have seen that expectation been shown as an ideal of the villains or an obstacle that the heroine must overcome, but never as a goal for her to aspire to). Except Mulan, and thats only because her having to disguise herself as a man in order to do what she needs to is the entire premise of the plot. She still returns to femininity in the end (although a less "hyper" version of what she was expected to perform at the start) and that is seen as a happy ending rather than something to be ashamed of. Personally I think the difference is less to do with masculine/feminine presentation, and more to do with depth of character. I would argue Kiki is a fairly boistrous heroine, but Ghibli movies actually care to give their characters lots of moments of quiet introspection, and so those 'masculine' traits/behaviours seem more balanced and realistic. If Disney had done Kiki's delivery service, I imagine they would make her seem a lot more obnoxious without even changing much about her character simply because Disney movies tend to avoid quiet moments like the plague. Everything is either an exciting event/revelation that forwards or complicates the main plot, a big visually cinematic moment, or a comedy bit. There's no breathing room for us to see the nuances of the heroine's character. Personally, I would like to see more *actually* masculine female characters in films, I just don't think that Disney would do a good job at it and its not because they're "woke". It's because they are writing from a profit-focused formula and have been for some time now, you can tell because literally all of their characters are badly written including those that were at one point compelling. It doesn't matter what they make because it will always have those same deep-rooted issues.
the irony of a man making this type if vid is there, but I really think its necessary. I think you did a great job talking about this, and I believe this video was so well done. 👍
Cinderella (animated not the remake) is one of the few female Disney characters from the early days that actually has depth. She’s often overlooked. She is empathetic and sincere, but also spirited, opinionated, and does what little she can to exist with some dignity in an abusive environment.
My Favorite is Elsa, I love that my younger sister took Anna as her Favorite, then we would say that our brother (middle child) is Hans 😂 Because it would be ridiculous if he took Kristoff as Kristoff will be Anna's lover later, and my brother would be mad cause he become the villain, so he choose Olaf instead. But still, we love to tease him as Hans 🤣 Oh, good old memory ❤
Mulan was definitely an awesome one. She was so in depth with her being insecure about herself then grows to being a confident woman who saves China whilst crushing on a general. THAT is good character development. They should have lore regarding them that shows how they learn from their mistakes and grow from them, just like how people in real life do. I like how Ghibli takes real life struggles and has the characters grow and learn from them by having friendships and love interests, but not having those love interests be the main priority.
I think equating personal experiences with the ability to write those that supposedly share a fraction of those experiences is a folley that most who think about writing fall under. Writing is in itself a skill that is independent of the life you lived. Like how just because you lived your life around flowers doesn't mean you are an expert in drawing them, or can even do a recognizable sketch of a daisy. Despite living with a human body their entire life, professional artists spend hundreds of hours studying the human anatomy just so they can competantly draw them, and it's the same for writing I believe. So it's no wonder that Miyazaki is so able to write female characters so well when he has gone through the work to become such a great writer. There's no more proof of this than in Castle of Cagliostro, where Clarisse is just the stereotypical damsel in distress, yet she is still such an amazing and complex character. She fails every single test regarding making a good female character, yet she is far better than 90% of all female characters ever written, including protagonist female characters. She has depth, complexity, character development, and even gains agency where appropriate despite being forced to become passive by not only the villain, but the hero and the plot. Every aspect of the movie treats her as just a damsel in distress, yet she's the one who starts the story both by actively running away from her marriage at the beginning, as well as saving the hero twice in a flashback and halfway throughout the movie. She's instrumental to many parts of the story despite being treated as nothing more than a goal by both the villain and hero, yet what happens instead is that she gains independence and the will and drive to act upon it in the end. The theoretically worst of Miyazaki's female characters ends up better than pretty much any Disney female characters (or most of Hollywood's for that matter) is quite telling of his skill and the lack of skill in western writers, particularly modern ones. Especially in terms of writing deep and complex characters, regardless of gender.
Wow I didn't even know this about the castle of Cagliostro since I haven't watched it yet. But that's honestly amazing that she's that incredible of a character
@@miguelmunuera2601 It gets forgotten a lot because it predates Ghibli, but it is 100% a Miyazaki movie. I don't remember off the top of my head, but he also directed a few episodes from the Lupin III show back in the 70s as well, though I imagine he didn't have the freedom back then to do anything too incredible, but it's thanks to that time that he made this movie which helped jump-start Ghibli.
Great video! It’s amazing how adding depth to a character can make them so interesting-it seems like such a simple concept, yet it’s becoming rare these days. I think early Disney movies often drew from books, which naturally provided some depth or at least a sense of nostalgic value. Nowadays, characters often feel formulaic because the primary goal isn’t to tell a great story or even to reimagine one. The focus is on making money by appealing to the masses with safe, non-confrontational content. It doesn’t even matter if the movie is forgettable, as long as people watch it-it’s still profitable. Without a financial incentive to tell great stories, we’re left with shallow characters. I think is we are honest, there’s a lack of memorable male characters too. The live-action remakes of Mulan and Avatar: The Last Airbender are prime examples. What made the originals great-the character flaws, growth, depth, redemption-was stripped away and replaced with shallow, forgettable eye candy. In contrast, Miyazaki is commitment to telling a great story, and that really shows.
why do people always have a "Disney is bad" mentality? i get they are kinda megalomaniacs and they're taking over a bunch of the movie world but some of you are predisposed to thinking their movies are bad. they've made some good movies in recent years and have some great ones from the early 2010s with likeable characters, Joe from Soul is a great protagonist for example, and Soul was made in 2020. Encanto had a whole cast of likeable, unique and even complex characters (Abuela for example). Mai from Turning Red also feels like a real pre-teen girl, but she won't be relatable to everyone.
Soul was GREAT but it's a Pixar movie. Encanto in my opinion was kind of average. The characters were interesting but the story didn't really intrigue me all that much tbh. They've made good movies 100%, but the bad ones outweigh the good ones recently
Please do not take this the wrong way, but as a female who is fed up with a majority of horribly written female leads, I have always had big thoughts on this topic. I'm taking the time to write down my honesty and it is very appreciated if it gets read. 🥰 I'm also a geek for both Disney AND Ghibli, so I've compared both a lot! Yes, I do agree that Studio Ghibli writes females accurately, more in depth, and actually gives them heroics that aren't focused on a heavy attraction for a male (which seems to happen a lot). These Ghibli women feel real and relatable. There are two Studio Ghibli female characters I personally relate to: Chihiro (Spirited Away) and Haru (The Cat Returns). Those two girls make me feel great in my own shoes and they inspired me in real life that my goals really do matter and that fighting for my freedom, voice, and passions are achievable. The male characters in both films are supportive of the female lead's strength and courage. That's really awesome. It's something I haven't felt from a Disney Princess, that's for sure. Anyway, Disney has been obviously picking away at stereotypes for a long time, but you also have to understand that even their male characters are placed into stereotypical zones as well. Studio Ghibli is fantastical in setting but yet very realistic with their characters and people. But does this make Disney all together horrible at writing a female character? Absolutely not! There are plenty of female Disney leads that have depth. Tiana is one of them, and probably one of the most notable. You can see every single expression of hope, sadness, etc. in her face. You can see how she grows in spirit and how she maintains a beautiful strength throughout its entirety. Tiana is relatable for her strong-will and also life/racial struggles. Disney dives into a culture, time, and place and gives that woman a story. Mulan is also a very relatable character for any female who wants to be at any male's level in any field or goal. Merida is also an example of a strong female, but also a stubborn one who actually has moments of downfall. That is really realistic and even does a lot of tomboy or tough spirited girls a comforting service. They will feel a connection to her and relate to all forms of her pain. If anything, Disney's SCRIPTS are the problem and not their characters. The script ties everything together. Ghibli just has really good scripts, sorry Disney. (There's been plenty of good Disney scripts, don't worry.) I honestly mainly put that warning up there at the top of my comment because I know I'm going to receive hate for feeling a lot like Asha from Wish. I know why people are hating on the movie, but to hate on Asha because of a bad script? I want you to observe her without the "bad script". Asha feels like she has a soul, despite what the internet says. If you pay attention to how she was portrayed, she is an empathetic hero, and a hero that isn't very common. She's in tune with the needs of others and puts that ahead of herself. Instead of letting herself struggle in her own cement, she motivates her journey around the needs of others. She's strong and capable and very brave. Her awkward and dorky traits are showing that she isn't perfect, which then adds to a realistic charm. She even put herself at so much risk! She even had moments of tearing up with a smile on her face... And those tears are a further symbol of empathy. As someone who was struggling to be understood because of high empathetic scales that I couldn't control, the balance Asha brought to it was absolutely soothing and brilliant. Forget about a bad script, Asha was fantastic. We're going to agree to disagree here, okay? So please don't spread hate to me solely based on my opinion about Asha. Also, Alice from Alice in Wonderland is another amazing female character. How about someone like Webby Vanderquack from DuckTales 2017? AMAZING. Watch that show for amazing female characters! Strong ones, too. Even the females in Disney cartoons like Phineas and Ferb are likable and relatable. And then think of Pixar... We have Elastigirl (Incredibles) and Colette (Ratatouille)! And one more thing about Asha (because I cannot keep talking this is too long)... I am so glad she was written without a love interest (Starboy). Because asexual and apothisexual women need their voices to be heard in our world. We need more movies for them that have no lack of romance. I'm not saying to ban love interests for strong women, but I'm only saying that we do need to cut back from it. The issue isn't about Asha losing her love interest! The issue is the script being messy. Keep in mind, the movie is a tribute to Disney 100 and is there as celebratory and for references and isn't supposed to be perfect or your average Disney movie. You can dislike the movie if you want, but I strongly believe this hate has to stop. ESPECIALLY any hate aimed towards Asha. I appreciate this video by the way, so thank you for taking the time to make it. I know how it probably feels awkward being a male and making the video, but you have my respect. We need more men to talk about how we can make female characters better. Of course, Ghibli is better at writing most females for sure! Both studios are just different, you know? I felt compelled to share this with the comments and I hope it left people in good spirits. Have a blessed day.
Thanks for the awesome comment!! I really loved reading through it and getting the thoughts and opinions of a girl that's put herself in the shoes of a lot of these great characters :) There are definitely some great Disney characters like the ones that you mentioned, in terms of Asha and Wish, I definitely see what you're saying but like you said I think we're going to have to agree to disagree hahah and that's okay! I do think she has some good traits for sure, I think she's more so just hampered by the bad script and story in general tbh. It's hard for a character to shine when the script/story are just poor. And definitely I think there should be characters with no love interests, I just think recently there have been many in Disney animated movies and I'd love to see a love story sometime soon :)
Thanks for taking the time to read my comment! Yes, I agree. I'm not saying no to romance in general, so I think it'd be great if Disney attempted romance again and added some more depth to it. You know, like the Ghibli romances! 😂 Not just about the prince and the princess being wed if you get what I'm saying. Just something way more meaningful.
I'm 100% in agreement with you about appreciating the move away from all female leads "needing" a romantic arc. It's refreshing to have focus on friends/family and other types of relationships as well, rather than constantly pushing the narrative that all people must want/prioritise a romantic partner.
I honestly think the last good princess disney made was Diana. She's relatable (at least to me) and pretty realistic, she works so hard everyday for her dream, and almost couldn't get it. Something Disney rarely made you actually feel bad for their princesses, we're shown how much her dream means to her, one we can relate, and almost take it all away from her.
This is why I love Merida fr💔 she may seem like a tomboy girlboss at first, but she has a lot of moments where she is vulnerable, scared, confused and in genuine need of help. She grows when she learns from her mother and starts seeing her point of view. She starts out *unwise* and if the movie was entirely directed by one person then I'm sure she would've had a compelling and complete character arc
Super underrated channel. It was nice to hear everything you said and I definitely agree with your sister! This is also a good reminder for writers. I sometimes struggle in making characters (female and male) independent from the plot and letting them just be themselves.
I also despise how women are seen as a two side to a story. Like you wouldn't think of a woman when you would hear someone say knight or a soldier, or even a chef (which is ironic because women are often told to go to the kitchen, but once there's an opportunity to reach success suddenly they shouldn't be there), but they were, are and will be in those fields.
Thanks so much 🥹 Really appreciate it, and I'm so glad this can serve as a nice tool for writers :) and also don't be too hard on yourself, it's definitely hard to make great characters sometimes
I've recently started reading Robin Hobb (extremely late to the party, I know). Her female characters are AMAZING. I love their humanity and complexity, including quirks, obsessions, and contrasts. Maybe because her books are so fresh in my memory, but I think she's one of the greatest writers of female characters out there.
While I do love Ghibli, the classic Disney Princesses still have a special place in my heart particularly Cinderella, Belle and Mulan. Some shown strenth through courage, some have the strength of character, like Cinderella whose kind heart ultimately rescued her from her bad home life by having loyal friends. I believe it's like how Waymond from Everything Everywhere All At Once who said it best- "When I choose to see the good side of things, I'm not being naive. It is strategic and necessary. It's how I learned to survive through everything. I know you see yourself as a fighter. Well, I see as myself one too. This is how I fight." I don't need some Girl Boss™ character who is already perfect on paper, I need a character who struggles with relatable issues, someone to cheer for. This is why '98 Mulan worked and New Mulan didn't for me.
Beautifully said. I couldn't agree more. As someone that also chooses to see the good side of things for the most part, I can totally relate with that quote. The best characters aren't some unflawed Girl Bosses, but rather the ones that can learn and grow and adapt
I love the sheer RESPECT that Ghibli shows their movies. They respect the women, the men, the neurodivergent characters, the children, the landscape, the culture, the art, the story. All of it. They give all their heart and soul to the story because it's a story they want to tell, not because it's a story they think people will buy. It feels complete.
Miyazaki has always said that he refuses to make movies for his audience, he just makes stories he thinks are great stories, and that's the difference. He cares about the art of storytelling, not about selling
To me the reasons Ghibli characters are more effective is simply because they're quiet. Disney characters are always doing something, singing, moving, talking, everything is a task, their motion is their existence. But ghibli characters are so quiet. They pause, take their time, they exist in a world rather being the world. Disney characters are archetypes and they act as such. But ghibli characters are real. They may fill a role but they are alive on their own. They are living things beyond the story.
This is actually such a good point I hadn't thought about. You're right, Ghibli characters are so much more still than Disney. They take time to ponder, reflect, etc.
@@miguelmunuera2601 。Are you guys stupid? They are literally musicals.
@@miguelmunuera2601 quiet girl is more Attractive
The lo-fi girl is Shizuku Tsukishima from Whisper of the Heart.
In reality people don't sing out of nowhere and don't talk and move so much, so yeah Ghibli character more real than this delusional princess with caffeine overdose😂
Disney doesnt make characters in the same way that they make films; more often than not, they prioritize making a product first (at least these days)
Unfortunately these days that's true. But the thing is they have released some pretty great movies the last 15 years. Zootopia, Princess & the frog, Moana, etc. they all have some great female characters and stories
Disney doesn't want to make another official disney princess movie with romance and without quirky personnality anymore.
Modern (with a few diamonds in the rough) or classic?
@@vincenthoule5643 😡💢💢You'd better watch what you say!!! That's the most ASININE thing I've EVER heard!
Hearing stuff like this really ticks me off! That's NOT gonna happen anymore!!!
Disney DOES and WILL want to create another official Disney Princess movie with romance and without quirky personality, and I'm going to make that happen!!!
And no, this isn't a joke whatsoever. I don't care what anyone says or thinks!
Once I get to work at Disney as a screenwriter, I'll create beautifully written romance stories that audiences will love!
It's high time that things have changed at Disney, and my friends and I are going to make those changes happen!
@@annien.1727merchandise
As a girl watching this, I agree that modern Disney films write TERRIBLE women. But, I don't think 90s films wrote "bad" women characters, and earlier Disney films (like from the 30s-50s) were still following very simplistic fairy-tail formats. So it was a different style for a different purpose and really not comparable. Having said that, yes. Modern Disney can't write female characters. But to be fair, it seems like they can't write original stories in general, so there's that.
That's the thing, some of the 90s female characters were great, like Mulan that I mention or even Meg from Hercules. I agree though that it's hard to compare those Disney classics because they were following fairy tale formulas, that being said I'm not arguing that, I'm simply debating what it takes for a well written female character to be portrayed and I don't think those classics portrayed that. Even if they weren't trying to! :) you get what I mean?
I actually like Rapunzel, Judy, Moana, and Mirabel (and Luisa! I love seeing a huge female character who isn't a villain), so we'll have to disagree on that point. But Asha, being the most recent, does poison the well a bit.
@@kelleyceccato7025 Rapunzel, Judy and Moana are some great ones 100%
@@kelleyceccato7025 Zootopia was actually VERY well made story and character-wise. Very strong, and probably one of their strongest films in the last 10 years. Rapunzel was also well made, too. Those I'm not necessarily referring to.
That said, many of them--like Moana and Mirabel, I felt were really flat. (And Raya's just awful). For instance, I actually enjoyed watching Moana, but she doens't grow that much. She's overly perfect, and her only flaw is mainly that she has to "believe" in "herself" more and be "true" to "herself." Yuck. Plus, it seemed really disingenuous that ALL the male characters were plot foils. Her dad is the only family member who doesn't support her, Maui (despite being a likable character and the one with the most character growth), is just there to be saved by Moana--emotionally, physically, and (it turns out), she didn't even NEED him in the climax. At best, he was a distraction (which, I learned later was because they changed his role at last minute). I like Moana, but those sorts of themes are weak and worn.
And Mirabel's problem is that we simply don't have time to get to know her. She's cute and fun, but despite the movie being long, there are SO MANY characters crammed in there that we don't really get to know much about her beyond the stereotypical outcast of "no one gets me or appreciates me" troupe--nor did we really get to see her bonds with any of the characters beyond a couple minutes of surface-level scenes here or there because of the number of characters we had to interact with in a short time. What is her relationship with Luisa? We see it at a glimpse (in that it seems she's not as hostile toward Mirabel at least)--but their main interaction is a 3 minute song that's more about Luisa's fears. And why is her relationship so heavy-handedly bad with her other sister? It's disproportionately hateful for just "you embarrass me." What about her other relationships? It's all just thrown in there really quickly with no real time to build upon or explore them more than an animated short's worth of content. Even the resolution with Bruno is fast. Apparently, they went from his name being taboo and them blaming him for everything to 100% being happy to see him (As if they hadn't just sung an entire song about how he was trouble and creeped them all out). It was too fast.
So, that's more what I meant about writing terrible women. It's like everything Disney releases lately starts as a "good idea" that never was fully polished or explored before it's release.
@@iamSketchHmoana has a whole character arc from being incompetent to becoming a confident leader and saves her people!? saying we don’t know much about mirabel is funny because she’s actually one of the most fleshed out protagonists and we see almost every facet of her personality in the movie? you say we don’t know much about her relationships what about the scenes with Antonio, her mother?, even her and isabelas relationship evolves over the movie. I don’t understand when you say we don’t get to know her when the movies progression is centered on her and her insecurities and her goals and her flaws
Rapunzel was a good one. I wish people remembered her more
She's underrated af
I still have the movie somewhere in my closet. 😝
I vaguely remember how her abusive kidnapper pretending to be mother died by disappearing?
@@ReedSolutionsshe became dust
@@ReedSolutions she was basically using the flower's power for so long, she was sooo old like she shouldve been dead long ago. so when rapunzel's hair's effect wore off the kidnapper mother, she turned to dust. she was basically dead if you know what i mean
i like how the male characters in ghibli ADD value to the female main characters (and also the other way around). the dragon guy quietly supporting chihiro and being by her side, howl bringing confidence to sophie, ashitaka shows monomoke the beauty of humanity, the castle in the sky guy helps her homeland and gave her comfort. meanwhile, the goat in wish? idk what he really did
Hahahaha I couldn't agree more. The support characters in ghibli movies are so good at propping up the main character and helping them learn & grow
Important to also say that the male leads don't fall into the modern "feminist" trope of "supportive male", i.e. be the cheerleader. Ashitaka challenges San, he's a strong, willful, and noble hero whether San exists in his life or not, he's not just there to be her cheerleader or just a plot device for her growth. That makes his relationship with her so much more meaningful.
So Princess Mononoke gets to be a movie with meaningful female empowerment without shitting on men, unlike the way modern western media tries to do it.
Wish was the origin story of guy condemned in mirror. Watch snow white then see wish.
How was Disney shitting on men? They animated Grimm fairy tales where women were only safe if they married a wealthy male. Back in the day men use to incarcerate women and children en mass then send them to slave for rich people as punishment for not being a man who was allowed to fight back. Used those poverty slaves to start colonies. People are still damaged from that behavior. Exploring it in media is still fascinating. Men hate looking at it but yet are still making illegal laws, creating badly steered communities, and still complaining when a female tries to gain leadership.
@@Ashitaka255 That's why I call Ghibli "post-feminist". They have female leads with true strength; but they are not resentful, vengeful, or needing to prove how strong they are. Hollywood feminism is all of those negative things. We just need to understand that everyone is human and needs respect. The west wants to take a dump on whichever category they blame to continue the cycle of hatred and dehumanization. That's why anime and foreign film (the good ones) are a breath of fresh air. It's like living in a house where you go nose-blind and stepping outside. Suddenly you can breath again.
What I hope happens is Disney or any other animation company just stops thinking adorkable equals sympathetic. We aren’t all clumsy. 😭 Not that there is a problem with being a clumsy.
Also, the fact that the internet prefers the original concept of wish where it’s a star boy and Asha vs an evil king and queen. Boy, where we robbed 💀 💔
Finally, the deeply human line at the end, I actually felt that. That was so beautiful written. A+ 🥹❤
Hahaha there's no problem with being clumsy or anything, but it's a problem when that's just something you resort to for your characters over and over 😭 and yeah I agree..wish they would've given us that version hahah
So glad you liked it 🥹♥️ honestly makes me super happy to know you guys enjoy the videos
I always related to the Adorkable Princess, especially Repunzel, but that's because I, an autistic adhd girl, act exactly like that. But, each to their own *shrugs*
@@erinbathie-moore8478 I love it too, I just don't like it when it's used for characters over and over again. I just think it's good to have diversity in the personality traits of characters :)
I wanna see an adorkable villain commit just the worst atrocities (maybe not intentionally but also with no remorse, y’know?) in a movie that takes them 100% seriously and then watch the fans try to justify the behavior on the basis of the adorkableness.
idk where we robbed, where WERE we robbed?
I'd say the stand out exception for Disney is Lilo from Lilo and Stitch. I would consider her the most complex and real female Disney character.
Absolutely. It's a crime that I didn't mention her 🤦🏻♂️
Disney movies set in Hawaii have to be approved by an Hawaiian cultural group. That’s why they’re always superior. They literally dictate how the characters can look and act. Like Moana was supposed to throw coconuts in one scene because she was angry and they changed it because that would be disrespecting food.
I would also argue Mulan (from the animation, not that awful remake).
As a little girl, I looked up to her. She didn't quite fit in the role society had for her, but she also wasn't as strong as men were. Instead, she was able to find her strengths in combining her intellect and physical fitness/technique into saving the day. Stopping Shan-yu's army by creating an avalanche with their last rocket, climbing a pole while carrying weights by using the weights to her advantage, having her friends dress up to trick the guards etc. made her into a powerful, strong woman without the need to make her unnaturally (physically) strong. She doesn't singlehandedly roundhouse kick 3 guys coming after her (thanks, Peter Pan remake with Wendy fighting off 2 grown male pirates whose swords she casually blocks and deflects....).
And in the end, even though Mulan had to hide her femininity to be allowed into the male army (in a reckless attempt of saving her father), she was still able to be feminine AND she got the guy after saving China. And all of that was thanks to her own efforts, hard work and dedication. I felt inspired as a little white girl in the 90's and wanted to be like Mulan: intelligent, but strong enough to help myself and to not be held back by my physical form as female. Mulan went through significant character development, or rather, character growth as she discovered her own strengths and self-worth.
To this day, Mulan is my favourite Disney female character and I still identify with her a lot!
Because miyazaki is a creator that sees women as worthy and different to men at the same time. Hollywoof only sees women as worthy when they are masculine (nothing against masculine women. What i mean is that they only see as worthy women who are physically strong, leaders, who talk loud and firm and prefer generally male stuff, like motorcycles, violent sports, etc)
@@yoonahkang7384 How are Mirabelle, Asha and Moana masculin ? Because they are not in an all pink dress ? Because they are not quiet ? Even Raya still feminin. The only we could be seen as masculin could be Mulan and yet only when she pretend to be a man
There's definitely an aspect of this but it doesn't apply to all Disney girls
That’s such a black and white way of seeing it. You’re making generalizations based on a few examples.
Being strong, loud, firm and a leader makes a woman masculine??
@@JazmínLópez-q8n The worst is that I don't see any recent Disney princess that would fit this description.
I hate that women (and all female animals) often just feel like subcategories. Like there are humans, then there are the "female variants". This is just how men, once upon a time, shaped society to view them and it often shows in all forms of media. To have a strong female character, have a STRONG WRITTEN CHARACTER and go from there. So this is indeed what I like about Ghibi's characters, they are written as strong CHARACTERS first and foremost.
Absolutely. When it comes to the writers room tr conversation and thought should be 'how do we write a compelling and amazing character', the gender should never be a part of it
@@miguelmunuera2601
I disagree with your second statement - I think their gender can affect how your character views things and can be very meaningful for your audience if it’s addressed!
Ariel wasn't motivated by eric! She always wanted to be on land. She is more boy crazy in the animation then in the new live-action, but the sentiment is the same. Her love for the land exceeds her love for him. Ultimately, Ursula takes her voice in exchange for the promise of being on land forever, not having Eric's love forever.
Hmm that's true but I thought her love for Eric far exceeded her wanting to be on land..but I get what you're saying :)
But it make the romance quite superfical while we are expected to root for it, the movie litterally end with their wedding
But in the end, Ariel has no character arc and no reproductions for the consequences of her actions, all because a guy she loves.
@@willlyon7129 People says that the true main character is her father because the movie is about him accepting that is daughter is becoming an adult but then most of his devloppement is offscreen and a good part of the movie would be useless
@@willlyon7129she gets consequences! And she got preyed on when she was emotionally vulnerable. I’d say her dad is pretty realistic but his actions weren’t good also “racism” and Ariel’s actions weren’t good either but she’s still a kid figuring herself out.
One of the most apt Ghibli-to-Disney heroine comparisons might be Kiki to Elsa. Both of them have magical powers, but while Elsa's vulnerability may feel, as you say, like a plot device, Kiki's vulnerability feels real, which makes it all the more rewarding when she takes flight and saves the day (and the guy) at the climax.
Kiki and Shizuku (Whisper of the Heart) are my favorite Studio Ghibli heroines, and I feel they don't always get the appreciation they deserve. Thanks for giving Kiki the shout-out.
I would argue, however, that Disney's "Down With Love" tendencies actually began with The Emperor's New Groove. Prior to this film, adult male Disney protagonists had love interests, and those love interests were often pretty great characters (e.g. Meg, Esmeralda, Jane). Kingdom of the Sun was originally supposed to include a romantic subplot, but when the project got scaled down into The Emperor's New Groove, it became a male-buddy comedy. Only later did Disney decide its heroines didn't need love interests any more than its heroes did. The most regrettable difference, for me, is that while the non-romantic emphasis in the male-led movies has generally been guy-guy friendship... well, we haven't really seen anything similar for its heroines. Their ride-or-die friend, when they have one, generally turns out to be a guy (e.g. Nic Wilde, Maui). Where are the girl-girl friendships that occupy a substantial role in the story? Answer: they're at Ghibli (e.g. Kiki and Ursula, Chihiro and Lin, Anna and Marnie. Even San and Moro kind of count.) The only female friendship in animation that challenges the Ghibli ones in importance, development, and complexity, is that of Robyn and Mebh in Cartoon Saloon's excellent Wolfwalkers.
Very good point! Shizuku is also one of my fave characters, I would've loved to give her some shine as well since she's kind of underrated but I thought the video was too long already hahah
Wouldn't that be Chihiro and Lin? Also, San and Moro weren't really friends so much as mother and daughter.
@@Godzillakingofkaiju1 Lin. Yes. That's a typo; I've fixed it.
Disney female friendship? Charlotte and Tiana
Female friendships: I want to include Madame Gina and Fio from Ghiblis Porco Rosso. The first time I watched it, I thought they would somehow start a obvious rival fight of who is the better girlfriend for Porco ala ladida-romantic love-triangle drama like in so, soooo many movies. Boy I enjoyed this unexpected outcome. At the end of the movie I believe Fio even says that they (Gina & Fio) stayed in touch and visited each other every once in a while the following years. So refreshing.
I'm a week to late for this comment, but I'm happy to finally speak this out loud 😅
Edit: spelled unexpected wrong
Is it weird to say Moana reminded me of some female ghibli characters?
Nah not at all (I kind of agree haha), what about Moana reminds you of them?
@@miguelmunuera2601 She has some similarites with Nausicaa; both are the princess of a small kingdom/village; both have to go on a quest where they interact with the violent outside world to save to prevent the destruction of everything alive; in the end they save the world by showing compasion to a being that appear at first dangerous. But the tone of the two movies are so different that in the end Nausicaa and Moana are really different.
I don’t see that personally. Moana is shown to do a lot of extraordinary things, as well as being absurdly gifted.
Ghibli heroines tend to be rather ordinary and mundane, aside from a special skill or two.
@@tetrastreamxvii having the ocean "choose" her and being special from the start doesnt rly help hhh
Moana sucked
I love how Ghibli treats male and female characters equally. Unlike Disney where the girls always have to be girl bosses while the guys are just accesories or slaves to them
Yes!! Exactly, it's crazyy
I wouldn't say that Aladin is an acessory; actually it's Jasmin that should be seen as one
true. Not only are they messed up for girls, they're messed up for boys too. You're even this big strong dumb hunk prince who saves the underage girl, or a big strong dumb hunk love interest who's used as just "the guy".
@@eleonorepb4565- pretty sure the OP was talking about all _modern_ Disney movies. They didn’t do this most of the time in older Disney movies, but they always do nowadays. The male characters are always cow towing to the female characters’ “girlboss brilliance”.
@@milo_thatch_incarnate The guy in Moana is quite important, he has some funny aspect but the main character too, he is actually way more devlopped and important than the princes in Snow White, Cinderella,Sleeping Beauty or the Little Mermaid.
This is a fantastically written video, Miguel! I especially liked your talk about allowing female characters to be strong and independent while also being vulnerable and having room to grow. These days, it’s very common that female characters are portrayed as nearly perfect with no obvious flaws, but that just isn’t realistic or relatable. I love it when artists, writers, and directors let their characters be human; let them be wrong, let them learn, and let them grow into better people because of it. Again, this is a great video and I’m excited to see more of your content in the future! 👏
This honestly made my day. I'm so glad this video resonated with you, I was super excited to talk about the topic and share it with you all 🥹♥️ it's SO IMPORTANT to get female characters right and so many studios/companies just fail miserably. Hopefully we can continue to get better written girls and women in the movies we watch :)
@@miguelmunuera2601
Exactly! I’ve been watching Disney-owned studios like Marvel and Star Wars evolve over these past few years, and a very emphasized theme seems to be the kick-ass female character; it’s like we’ve forgotten that women can be strong while exhibiting other positive traits like compassion, kindness, self-sacrifice, and so on and so forth.
The Star Wars character, Omega, is an example of a female character who’s journey and development felt so refreshing to me. The writers of the Bad Batch let her be a kid, let her make mistakes, and let her simply be human. Her starting traits weren’t kick-ass at all; she was curious, sweet, and loved her family of defective clone brothers. She was far from perfect, she knew little about the world outside and her curiosity often got her in trouble, but her heart was in the right place and her brothers taught her how to survive and help others survive in the age of the oppressive Empire.
And that’s why it was so amazing to see her grow from a young, inexperienced child with no knowledge of the world to a young woman ready to fight in the Rebellion. Her more confident self slowly took form over the course of three whole seasons, and it pays off in the most beautiful way when she helps children just like her break out of an Imperial facility, using everything her brothers taught her to cause a massive diversion and sneak out safely. I absolutely love her journey, and she’s realistic and relatable, too. Such an awesome character; I am always eager to see more characters like her pop up in media.
@@MJCam1130 I wasn't even aware of this example!! That's honestly awesome
Depends tbh sometimes the general public is stupid so they'd hate it when the protag has flaws at all or act like an actual child 🫠
I think Ghibli/ Miyazaki simply write women (and also men) as humans ... as people and not as tropes of different kind.
Definitely, we need more of that with other studios
@@miguelmunuera2601he prioritizes character and personality first
I think most people forget Ariel was always interested in the surface world, the fact she met a handsome Prince in addition was just the cherry on top.
But After that it feels like the entire plot revolved around prince Eric :/
@miguelmunuera2601 well yeah she needed to kiss him in order secure her legs and retain her voice.
Also people don't give Eric enough credit for his compassion; he finds a naked disabled woman with probable head trauma alone on the beach and he takes her in and nurses her back to health.
@@georgeprchal3924 Yet she has no character growth and no representation for her actions.
@@willlyon7129Dude, that all mess happened because of Ariel's actions. Ursula tricking her, taking over the ocean, Triton being turned to a plant all happened because of Ariel's actions. Have you even watched the movie? 😑
@ I much prefer the original Hans Christian Andersen story.
While I overall agree with your assessment of Studio Ghibli writing better female characters, I completely disagree about the part that so many of the Disney princess characters were badly written. If you were only referring to the modern ones, then yes, I would agree, but it seems like you are trashing on almost all of them saying that we love them despite them being "badly written", especially if they are part of a romantic plot even if that romantic plot is well written. The 90s ones I feel don't deserve that kind of trashing. As for the classic ones, most of them don't really do much and were made to follow a fairy tale format. Characters like, Belle and Rapunzel were not solely focused on their future romantic partners, they just wanted to do more in life, and their romances with their partners were built up naturally over the course of their films. Ariel also initially didn't want to go to the human world because of Eric, she wanted to go there because of what they do and what she can explore. It was Ursula who made up this rule that she had to fall in love with Eric.
Yeah there are definitely some that I think are great! Like I mentioned Mulan for example. I think Belle and Rapunzel are also great female characters for sure :) That is true about Ariel but that lasted for very little of the movie until she met Eric so idk (that doesn't mean I don't love her tho)
Dude, most of the old Disney characters are even worse garbage with zero depth to them.
@@Simon-A.-Tan 😡💢💢What kind of ASININE bs is that?! How DARE you say such STUPID words?!
Most of the old Disney characters are NOT "worse garbage with zero depth to them"!!!
NONE of them are garbage at all! They do have a LOT of depth to them!!!
You'd better watch your mouth before you say something you'll sorely regret later on!!!
@@annien.1727🧩
@annien.1727 You ok, buddy?
In general Disney's movie are more superfical (just compare the Little Mermaid to Andersen's story) but some of its characters movies are well written, Lilo is a realistic depiction of a child having to deal with her parent's death and her big sister who had to be the adult of the house despit being a young adult herself.
Lilo is actually a great example, I honestly completely missed thinking about her I wish I could've mentioned her in the video. She's a great and realistic depiction of a child going through what she went through 100%
@@miguelmunuera2601 We also have Tiana from the Princess of the Frog who , even if not as well written as most Ghibli’s character, is a bit more complexe than most other princesses, sadly she is one of the least popular.
@@eleonorepb4565 she's actually one of my favourite characters of all of Disney! I talk about her in the vid too :)
Ikr I hate the Disney version of Little Mermaid for a multitude of reasons. Like, I can write a whole hate essay on the Disney Little Mermaid, but I love Ponyo and that it's based off the OG Hans Christian Anderson version of Little Mermaid
@@jocelynecupcake Ponyo is indeed a way better movie and it didn't tried to remplace the original story.
Ghibli writes people. Disney writes...either a stereotype or an exaggerated caricature, depending on the era. Simple as.
Say it louder for the people in the back
The concept of Love futher explains Wish's lost potential. In the originial script, Asha was supposed to be accompanied by a Starboy was was meant to be her love interest. Not because all characters need a love interest in movies, but Starboy was meant to help Asha grow from her original reserved and pessimistic personality (Yes, this was the Asha we were originally going to get. Not the adorkable one we have now). Even if her and Starboy just remained friends, love in all shapes and sizes helps characters develop, feel relatable in their interactions and makes them complex, which is what would've been done for Wish had Disney not been so afraid of taking chances
Although I 100% agree with this, I dug into this theory and apparently Starboy was supposed to be Sabino, but a younger version of him apparently. So that would've been a friendship. I still would've loved for them to have given her a love interest tho 🥹
@miguelmunuera2601 I would've been down for either; Love interest or friendship. I just wanted someone there to help her grow 😭
Wrong! It was never planned that Asha is getting a love interest! We just all thought it!
@@Simbala-bq5vy It's in the concept art. And I don't know if Starboy was supposed to be Asha's love interest, but like I stated earlier, they didn't need to be in love because love can be platonic as well
@@begreen2809 No, it was just supposed to be her Soulmate, nothing more. It was never planned them becoming a couple.
Some of these things also apply to many animes. Female characters most times are there only to be eye candy for the male audience. They don't have a personality nor goes through self growth, their lives most times revolves around a male character. This is honestly one of the reasons i stopped watching anime.
That's very true. A lot of the time they're just there for eye candy 100%. Naruto is a good example of many female characters not done great.. (Sakura and Karin)
You should watch Attack on Titan. It has many female characters that have their own goals and do things because of their own strength. Yes, I agree Mikasa's arc revolves mostly around Eren and his actions, but I see it more like a sister trying protect a brother. What I also like about this anime, is that female characters are not overly sexualized. They don't have typical "waifu look" on them but actually have quite realistic bodies.
I greatly limited my selection of anime for that reason. You really have to do research to find good shows (just like with western animation). I could give some recommendations if you want.
@@Ghibli-Dudeman the same story here. My taste is so specific and I will not put myself through things I don’t have to see. It’s hard to find the good stuff but when you do it’s really worth it
@@bookeater1599 I think my favourite genre is ones that tear your heart out, demolish it, and put it back together again, lol.
You really should make a video to compared where Anastasia and the swan princess succeeded where Wish failed.
Anastasia and the swan princess? I'll have to watch them both then! I think I watched Anastasia but only a long time ago. Are they both great movies?
@@miguelmunuera2601 yes. They are both great.
@@vincenthoule5643 do you think they would be a good comparison to wish? More than say Princess & the frog for example?
@@miguelmunuera2601 I like the princess and the frog.
@@miguelmunuera2601let’s watch them together mi anastasia has been on my list for so long 🦧
I would also like to point out that most of Disney's main Heroins, especially the princesses, look often the same. Sure they have a different hair colour or, like these days, even a different ethnicity, but they also have the same slim figure and height. I really would love to see more representation for differnt body shapes and sizes
That's actually a really good point!
To be fair, Ghibli does the same, only thing that makes any difference is the age of the characters and hair style 😄
@@Kotifilosofi I mean, if you have the same guy to make the character design for every movie, then of course many of the characters will look very alike. I mean, that happened even more to 2D Dreamworks movies too, to the point I'm slightly surprised Altivo from Road to El Dorado and Spirit don't look the same but with different colours.
@@Burn_Angel they were talking about the diversity of body shapes, to which I replied, however a good point anyway ☺️
Kinda reminds me Frozen and how literally every female character looks exactly the same: the idunna, elsa, and anna. All have the exact same body and face with big eyes, teensy nose, and tiny slim waist. The mom is supposed to be middle aged but she looks the same age as the daughters who are in their early twenties. Compare the female characters to the male characters-agnarr, kristoff, hans. all look different, different face and body type. but the women get to be generic barbie dolls.
Imo, some disney MCs that have great development matching close to ghibli females are Mirabel from Encanto, Moana & Mulan.
-Mirabel shows how she wants to be recognized by others but in the end, her inner character is in & itself, special & beautiful all along. (Depicted well in the song “All of You”)
-Moana shows how she fully embraces her adventurous side by her own will & not solely because of her ancestors’ call. (Depicted in the “I am Moana” song)
-Mulan, as we know, tells us how she breaks the norm & finds her life purpose in order to protect her family & beloved.
They all grew facing their flaws & insecurities throughout the series, I like it.
Im sharing this from my perspective as a ghibli fan since my childhood..
I definitely agree that these are some of the better Disney female characters! Especially Moana I'm a big fan of :)
Mulan, yeah. But Moana and Mirabel? Sure they are likable and heroic in their own way but I wouldn’t call them great characters because they aren’t given much depth. Tell me why exactly Moana feels attracted to the ocean? The movie never bothers to tell you why, it shows her fascinated by the ocean for reasons unspecified and then she grows up with everyone telling her to stay away from the ocean. If you grew up your whole life being told something is dangerous, why do you feel compelled to it? Is it a form of rebellion? Nope. Is she just fascinated by the ocean because plot? Yes.
And what are her flaws? She is a little quirky? Thats not a flaw!
As for Mirabel…her entire personality is “I’m ordinary.”
I like Mirabel. She’s one where “adorkable” works. She’s supposed to be an oddball who doesn’t fit in, she hast fit in since she was very little and she’s accepted it while everyone else is killing themselves to be perfect.
Nah. Moana wants to explore. She knows there’s a whole world out there. Some people are just like that; they want to see what’s across the horizon or on the other side of the mountain. Voyagers are like that.
Still agree she’s one-dimensional and boring overall.
Disney doesn’t write bad females, they just started making less quality movies pretty recently.
Would you say historically their female characters have been well written?
@Personally I think they were a good product of their time.
But maybe dated nowadays! I will give you that.
But do you think being fun and entertaining can be enough?
I would like to know your opinion.
@@A-Ni-MeInspired 🙄Who the HELL cares if they're dated? They're NOT even "dated" at all! They're timeless, imo.
@@annien.1727 yeah!
You’re right!
@@A-Ni-MeInspired Well, that's going to change once I get to work at Disney as a screenwriter.
I plan to create animated movies with amazing, brilliant storylines and well-written, likable, relatable characters. It's high time that Disney's attitude towards female characters got improved. And I aim to improve it.
This video really got my brain buzzing. Just dreamed up an entirely new element to add some nuance to one of the female characters in a story I’m writing. Thanks for sharing these great insights.
Amazing!! So glad it helped you out :)
I don’t consider mulan to be written by Disney…? Since it’s been a traditional Chinese tale that was originally written by a poet in ancient china and as a child growing up I’ve heard a lot about mulan’s story whether from my grandparents, documentaries or children’s book. I only found out years later that it was a Disney movie…
Yeah definitely but it's an adaptation so they have creative liberties as to how they want to tell the story, so technically they did write most of what Mulan is like in the movie :) it's not a 1:1 retelling of the ancient Chinese story at all
using that logic, you could say the same thing about 70% of Disney movies.
Apparently Mulan was a real girl as well ( I don't know if that's true !) and her story is supposed to represent that of filial piety that's a core part of Chinese culture.
Well that's also the case for most Disney movies, who were adaptations of European tales (Cinderella, Pinocchio, Beauty and the Beast, The little mermaid and I could go on for a very long time)
Ever heard of the Brother's Grimm then? Lol. That's like 70% of all Disney princesses prior to the 2000s (and even afterwards, with Rapunzel etc.).
Excellent point about Elsa from Frozen. Her anxiety and vulnerability makes her stand out against other disney female characters because it adds a extra layer of complexity but, as you said, her vulnerability does feel like a plot device, its there to move the story along and when the movie ends, all of that fear and anxiety just disappears and everything feels so superficially resolved just so we can get that fairytale happy ending. Even the citizens of her kingdom just immediately forget that she nearly froze them to death and just start ice skating with her. Its a shame because Frozen is such a great film but its largely hindered by a serious lack of character development.
Exactly!!!
Esmeralda is a good female char trust me yall
She's amazing and I'm mad at myself for not including her 😭
Female Disney characters are not badly written or unreliable, Elsa is a really strong example of someone who struggles with anxiety on a daily basis and she learns to cope with it from the support of her loved ones, Tiana had to learn to look at the different perspectives of life, Moana went on a journey to save her home and she had moments where she wasn’t sure of what she was doing
Definitely good points. I talk about Tiana and Elsa, and Moana is also one of the highlight Disney female characters in my eyes!
0:42 as long as you’ve done your research it doesn’t matter who is presenting it
True but I thought it important to include the disclaimer hahah
Um no it certainly does matter..?
When I was watching princess Mononoke, I was thrilled when I was introduced to Lady Eboshi AND SHE WAS A VILLIAN! She was strong because of her compassion, leadership, guts of steel! she wasn’t pure good or evil. She had ambition that lined up with who she is and her surroundings. She wasn’t a statement, she was a PERSON!
She was a badass fucking person
@ HELL YEAH
Thank you. Ive been struggling with trying to make my female characters more relateable and didnt know if I was doing a good job. This video was very informative and now I can compare. 😊
I'm so glad !! What are you doing female characters for??
@miguelmunuera2601 Lots of stories I'm making that I've been working on for like 6+ years. Writing good characters is harder than it seemed. 😅
@@PascallionXIII for literature? Or film? Or what exactly? :) that's so exciting honestly
@@miguelmunuera2601 Sorry. I didn't see this till today. 😅 All of those, yes. I want to make stories for cinema and just books.
@@PascallionXIII haha no worries! That's super exciting 😍
Great video, but I still disagree that Ariel is a reactive and passive character who is only motivated by a man. Her main drive was also to go to on land, since she felt like an outsider under the sea and wanted to escape her controlling father. She wanted to do that long before Eric came into the picture. Plus, she makes plenty of active choices throughout the movie. Like before Sebastian sings under the sea, she immediately starts making plans to talk with Eric to show him as her true self. It's just that Ursula made her change those plans after her father destroyed her collection. She still made the choice to take the deal and saves Eric multiple times. Granted, I would've liked it more if Ariel learnt that the real world has just as much problems as hers, but we have to deal with issues as they come, but that would've been a different movie.
In fact, I think the most of the 90s princesses are well written, though I wish Jasmine and Pocahontas were more fleshed out. I just think some of the modern Disney female characters could have been written better minus ones like Judy, Moana and Rapunzel. Disney has placed a bigger importance on "strong female characters" and "adorkability" in more recent years that they forgot to make their female characters flawed and real. (Not counting the early ones, since their goal wasn't to make them relatable back then, but on retelling a fairy tale and showing off the animation.)
I'm also surprised that you never mentioned Nani and Lilo in this. They were super relatable, being girls suffering after the loss of their parents. They can be messy, make mistakes and things don't always go right for them. They're the most Ghibli-like leads in the whole lineup so far.
Honestly you're absolutely right, I should've mentioned Lilo and Nani in the relatable section, they're such great characters imo. And I definitely understand where you're coming from in the Ariel part, it's true that she was definitely motivated by getting to know the human world, it just felt like to me after she meets Eric that her motivations are like 80% Eric-centric for the rest of the movie. I just would've loved to see her explore her love for the human world a bit more, and have that emphasized. I guess that's also kind of hard when you don't have a voice though hahah
OMG RYUKO CHAN❤️❤️❤️
But here's the thing you don't realize how many Leading female characters there are Ghibli films Because they're just written so well that they're not trying to be oh so heroic and I don't need a man I'm a strong independent independent woman!
100%!!
I agree on that. Chihiro needed the help from Haku to get into the bathhouse and Haku encouraged her when he shared the riceballs with her. She also relied on Kamachi and Lin. Chihiro took the help because she needed it while trying to do things on her own when needed, like visiting Zeniba or doing her job in the bathhouse.
In my opinion, Eboshi is one of the most interesting characters Ghibli has. One of my favourites for sure. Eboshi is indeed strong and independent woman, and not just "because". She had a nightmarish background and saw world's worst sides, saw what men are capable of and what women have to go through. She cares for her people and is willing to take any risks to protect and provide them, she cares even for those nobody wants to care for. Eboshi rescues girls from being used and basically enslaved, just like the way she once was, and gives them a job. An absolute badass of a leader. And even despite the grudges she may have against men, she still treats them as people, not as monsters.
What's important, despite the absence of "villains", which is another great part of this movie, we can see two sides (and Ashitaka in the middle of it all). Most of the viewers are probably rooting for San's side or Ashitaka, as I see. And it's clear why, because what Eboshi does is kinda cruel and extreme. She's stubborn and quite narrow-minded, basically does not believe in "peace" between sides. She has flaws and her actions lead to terrible mistakes. But even so, she admitts and learns from them in the finale.
Also her motives are quite understandable despite the recklessness of the methods she uses. She is in the middle of the war where they are either the ones to lose and die or win and keep living. They live on the territory with access to iron and other resources, which they use to trade, to improve their town and self-protection. They Need It. The iron is the blood running through their veins. So it means Eboshi has to invade the forest and fight with its' inhabitants for the territory and resources to protect her own people, she isn't doing that because she "hates nature" or "stupid" or simply a "villian". Just like when she heads to hunt down the Spirit of the Forest she's guided not by "arrogance", "hatred" and "naiveté ", but garantee for safety and wealth the emperor promised to her and her people for doing that.
Have anybody ever wondered why the Spirit never tried to actually stop her? Because he was weak or just couldn't? I believe it's simply because this confrontation is natural to it. That's the way people work and the world we live in. Everyone wants to live. Eboshi isn't evil to the Spirit. She's just a human fighting for those important to her, those she swore to protect.
Her reasons are believable, the situation is difficult. She's a noble and firm leader, yet caring and responsible woman with her flaws and delusions. I love her. And just "Princess Mononoke" in general ❤
Eboshi is simply incredible, you're absolutely right. She's by far one of the best antagonists in all of film in my eyes :)
Eboshi represents order, humanity, and its industrial side. Yes, of course she damages the nature San and the rest of the spirits try to protect, but as you said, she doesn't do it because of malevolence or ignorance, but because, as any other creature on this world, humans also need to consume, to survive.
Also, one thing that many people disregard, is the fact that Eboshi welcomes Ashitaka and offers him a place to stay, while San lashes out at him almost every time, thus showing both the warmth of the order humanity and civilization provides, as well as the cruelty of mother nature and the wilderness shows to anyone, as life in the wild is based on the survival of the fittest.
@@Burn_AngelI've also seen people say that Eboshi is greedy, but I don't see evidence of that in the movie, she does mention that the land she's in will become rich, but she says that to Ashitaka when she first meets him and is trying to get him to stay so I do believe she was trying to appeal to his greed (that he doesn't have anyway). She gets the iron out of need to keep the town working and fed and to trade for what she can't get from her surroundings, she keeps the forest creature away with violence because her town's survival depends on the business, she helps Jigo because she owes him for favours and doesn't want to get on the bad side of the emperor, she goes after the forest spirit because of this and also because she thinks his blood could heal the lepers. In the end nothing of what she does is selfish even tho it might seem that way on the surface. People just want her to be worse than she already is because they're not accustomed to a narrative without a clearly defined villain I think.
George RR Martin was asked how he makes well written female characters. His response: "I've always considered women to be people." All the little points you bring up I think fit into that statement rather neatly. A real person can be complicated. They can be strong in some ways and weak in others. They can have a career and a romantic interest separate from each other. Some are smart, others dumb. Some are brave, and others cowards. When you try to write a character with all the little details that make up the sum of a real human being, then they feel much more authentic to the viewer. The sex or gender is mostly irrelevant.
THIS! George RR Martin was onto something
For me personally when writing female characters, I tend to push the factor of gender for the last. Make the characters unique without letting gender define the character as a whole.
That's a great way to do it!
ghibli also doesn't hesitate to show different sides of female characters. sophie was shy and insecure, chihiro is whiny, annoying but genuinely relatable, mononoke was badass, cool. disney has been trying too hard to appeal to the new generation of "women has to be badass, quirky, funny" and i think thats their problem
I love how varied Ghibli characters are in general, that's something that they do incredibly well
Is it me or Nala, despite not being the main character, is better than most female Disney characters? Think about it.
1. She, as a kid, wasn't treated no different from Simba by the movie (expect for the obv stuff, like him being the prince) She was an energetic kid that likes to play with fire, just like him.
2. When they grow up she didn't run away to find Simba, and even when she does, love wasn't why she wanted him back - she cared for her people and wanted to help them. She still fell in love with him, but he WASN'T her goal and she was ready to give up on him because he hurt her and, in a way, betrayed her and their pride by refusing to come back. She expressed vulnerability to him, but she also showed to him that the pride meant the most to her. He wasn't merely a love interest, he was her friend and the help her people needed. Once they came back she didn't stay silent neither - she also spoke out and then fought alongside Simba. People may tend to overlook her, as she had lot less screen time and wasn't the main character, but she feels like a female character that could potentially be seen as pretty well written female character.
I fucking love Nala, and I agree with you ngl - she's a great character. That being said though I'm so sad she didn't get more screentime. It would've been awesome to see a glimpse of her life while Simba was growing up with Timon & Pumba. It would've given us so much more context for things
@@miguelmunuera2601
After rereading, I think I went too overboard with what I wrote, and it's definitely going out of topic. Won't be surprised if you don't read it😅 I just really love this franchise.... *Anyway.*
There's a lot of stuff I wish we could have seen more of when it comes to The Lion King in general. This is one of the only Disney franchises that feels like it could benefit from fourth or even fifth movie. Ariel didn't need continuation of her story, nor did Cinderella or Beauty and The Beast.. But The Lion King is different.
The Lion King has many compelling characters, unlike some other movies, in which most characters are merely supporting cast or details to the story. The movie makes you wonder about who Rafiki is? What was Simba's time with Timon and Pumbaa like while growing up? What was Nala and the rest of the lionesses time while under Scar's regime? Why are Scar and Mufasa so different and why did they hate eachother? How did Scar get his scar? I could list many more questions lol.
All characters are either interesting and mysterious, or just fun to follow and watch, making you want more of them.
Another thing that makes The Lion King feel like franchise that could not only benefit from, but in my opinion, NEEDS more movies.. is it's overarching theme. The circle of life.
The first movie shows us the birth of the prince, the balance of the ecosystem, the end of a king, the consequences of betraying said balance and the new beginning.. but it also teached us about the loss of the ones we love, legacy, responsibility and love. The second movie teaches us about forgiveness, second chances and how past mistakes shouldn't be held over the heads of the newer generation.. it teaches peace, and in a way, goes over several things that were off with the original movie. Scar's design was a stark contrast to every other character in the movie, which is cool for character design.. but also feels weird that the antagonist is marked through visual design. The second movie shows us that it isn't your upbringing, your parents or even your looks that make you a bad person - it's you. Kovu chose not to be like Scar, and so he wasn't.
The third movie was mostly comedic, which I love, but it also showed a glimpse at the backstories of many of the beloved characters while also letting us see more about Simba's cubhood, teenagehood and how Timon and Pumbaa handled it.
What I think would fit perfectly alongside all these is a movie where it's time for Simba to step down and let Kiara and Kovu take over. Think about it - all of the movies followed steps in Simba's life, and the last missing piece is him passing his legacy to the next generation. It could teach a lot to adults who struggle with realising their own limitations once their prime passes and also help them give more trust to their successors. The movie could also show Kiara and Kovu preparing for the future, show their growth together. This would feel like a fitting ending for the franchise imo.
She's such a great character! I hate when people say she's just there just to be the love interest... Like no, she also has a character!
@@Simbala-bq5vy Ikr? If anything, she's one of the rare love interest that has personality, goals and feelings other than "Oh, I love the protagonist and need to be saved/win over".
@@Emz_yeleveleThere's another lion king movie coming soon in December 2024 - it's called Mufasa The Lion King. Talks about Mufasa's life before Simba. It's not animation, and many people may dislike it but I really like these "live action" CGI films. Worth watching to know more about The Lion King's series for anyone who's a fan.
Although I tend to prefer Ghibli as a whole, Belle is my favorite character from either by far. Whether she's twiddling her fingers behind the tree, pushing a strand of hair back, or mocking the idea of being Gaston's wife, she's just so alive and brimming with warmth and depth.
I absolutely ADORE Belle. She might be one of my favourites as well along with Mulan and Tiana. But Belle is just the cutest 🥹 plus I'm a sucker for girls that read
@@miguelmunuera2601 We have similar taste! Mulan was my fave as a little girl and Tiana plain rules. I prefer the Disney ladies who seem like they do their own taxes. Esmeralda and Kida are also high up there for me.
I agree fully with you on Ariel. She may have "wanted to go to the surface before Eric" but Eric was the reason she DID, and getting his approval is the one and only goal. I don't actually care if love is the goal but she knew less about him than the OG princesses did before they committed. That's saying something. She's the rare Disney princess I think is genuinely a bad role model.
Kiki, San, Taeko, Sheeta and Nausicaa are my top Ghibli gals. 😄
@@bespectacledheroine7292 oh my god ESMERALDA!! I can't believe I forgot to mention her in the video damnit 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ she's incredible too and would definitely do her own taxes hahaha
And yeah definitely, I don't mind love being the sole focus of a story, I'm a romantic, but it has to make sense you know?
(All of those ghibli girls are incredible, great taste ;)
@@miguelmunuera2601 Esmeralda is shafted by Disney itself because I guess she's the exact opposite of "the BrandTM", so it's understandable. No less a legend to me. More so than Mulan honestly because although she's a good character she fell into heroism because of familial duty over desire per se. Esmeralda is a heroine by choice. And yeah, I call myself a hopeful, not hopeless, romantic. Hope for the best but expect the worst and all.
Sheeta and Castle in the Sky generally are so underappreciated.
@bespectacledheroine7292 that's actually a very good point of desired herione vs not..I hadn't thought about that but you're right!
Castle in the sky 🥹🥹
Thanks Miguel, great video! You have helped me see these movies, and their female characters, in a new light 🙏
That's always the goal! To hopefully give you some new perspective :)
What can I say? A splendid video, which I agree with from start to finish!
[insert "Homelander perfect" meme]
I add a personal consideration: I re-watched The boy and the heron, where the protagonist is a boy. Nonetheless, there are three female figures who have an impact on his life: at the beginning, he does not approve of his father's relationship with Natsuko, but the journey into the fantasy world leads him not only to recover, in part, the bond with his mother , but also to get to know one of the servants of the house where he resides in the human world, who turns out to be very different from the fearful old lady who accompanied him.
Each of the three teaches Mahito one thing, and this is a trait that is found in almost all Ghibli films: the protagonist is educated and grows thanks to the support of other characters (Chihiro), or his actions have consequences for other characters ( Sophie).
This is a characteristic that could be found in several less recent Disney films: in Aladdin, for example, Jasmine does not undergo a real change, but influences the character of the protagonist, leading him to mature. If he first wanted to use the Genie's powers to conquer Jasmine, once he starts dating her seriously he no longer knows if it's the right thing to do.
Hercules begins his journey to become divine again, but his meeting with Megara leads him to understand that what matters to him is not accessing Olympus.
But beyond my mumblings, a really interesting video. Congratulations!🍻
Just as a suggestion: it would be very interesting to hear your opinion on the growth of the Berserk characters.
What an awesome comment 🥹 always appreciate these! And the new perspective you give on the video too is super interesting. That's a great point that a lot of these characters usually have great side characters to help them grow and to propel them further. Might be interesting to make a video on support characters and the part they play in a great film 👀
Unfortunately in terms of berserk I haven't watched/read it yet 😭 but I have the first few chapters!
@@miguelmunuera2601 A video about supporting characters would be very engaging!
I'll stay tuned.
Well, this is a good explanation on what should i focus as a writer, thanks! Great video btw. 12:04
So glad you enjoyed it!! Thanks a ton for the support :)
Ghiblis female characters are written the way they are, because the writers are interested in human beings and want to tell stories about humanity. The way Disney writes their characters the way they do is because they want to adopt a certain ideology or cater to a certain audience. In one case, the writing is organic and genuine, in the other case, its formulaic and shallow.
(As a side not: Ghiblis characters are so good because the writers most probably do not apply something as superficial as the bechdel-test.)
The writing is where all great movies are made imo. Ghibli has nailed that since the start
Artist and hopefully not too far future indie animator, I'm also trying to make realistic and relatable characters! Liked this vid very good
Let's go!! That's awesome, I'm sure you'll do great :)
9:32 ain’t no way I first thought at the start of this video “just use the bechdel test” and it actually came up in the video :’)
Hahaha 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Great video dude! Both studio Ghibli and Arcane have AMAZINGLY written women (and men). In fact, there's a UA-camr named Schnee who goes in depth into how Arcane writes men and women (and the differences in their writing), and I highly recommend you check him out. (if I ever right a book, I'll probably use his video as a reference guide)
Thanks so much!! Yeah you're right, Arcane has amazingly written characters 😍 and season 2 is out today so I'm so excited. I'll definitely check him out cause that sounds like a super interesting video :)
Actually Disney at one point did make female characters that were realistic. Like Esmeralda from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Megan from Hercules, and Kida from Atlantis. To me I found them more realistic than the Disney princesses. You have Esmeralda who is fighting for her people's rights, Megan who doesn't need a man to rescue her, and Kida who is a powerful strong female warrior. But as time went on they were forgotten along with other female characters that show that the world is not a fairy tale. Disney took that away because it didn't fit with how other people felt and now people barely talk about them. To me I always look up to them. I just wish that they got more respect as the years went on because they deserve to be a representation of female characters in Disney.
I would consider a bechdel test a starting point, but not an indicator that it has compelling female characters.
I completely agree. It's just one factor but not nearly the most important
you gotta love how shallow Disney's philosophy goes. they don't seem to ask the question "**why** do men even want power?" ...SO WE CAN BE WORTHY OF THE LOVE OF A WOMAN. at the center, the foundation of every powerful male in history, is the necessity to procreate, to protect their procreation, to leave behind a legacy that their procreation can continue to use after the father dies. has Disney ever shown a woman gaining power so she can be worthy of a man? has Disney ever shown a woman gaining power so she can protect herself, her man, and their children? has Disney ever shown any philosophical depth on the topic of why one (male or female) should even want power?
Oof this hits hard 😳😳
2:50 HER VULNERABILITY IS THE *FOCUS* OF THE STORY
That's the whole point. She's afraid of expressing love due to an accident and growing fear and then learns to do so
I agree I just don't think it's as deeply explored as it could've been tbh. But I love her character tbh
An excellent video essay, and I struggle to find anything I disagree with. I'm especially glad you called out Japanese anime and its blatant hypersexualization of women, and how improbable it would seem to be that Ghibli, a Japanese studio, is also the one shining light in the animation industry when it comes to creating the best female characters. A lot of people probably don't realize just how unique Hayao Miyazaki really is.
Thanks so much ♥️ and 1000%, he's so damn unique
I think a Disney movie or more like Disney remake that should be mentioned is the 2015 Cinderella live action adaptation. The story added so much more depth to Cinderella's character as well as the Prince, which is more than welcome since we can actually see the two building up a relationship with somewhat realistic pacing. It becomes less of a "damsel in distress" story and instead shows how femininity can be powerful as well. Cinderella never gave up her femininity, kindness, and compassion in the remake, she stayed strong even after when she felt that all was lost. I think that this is what Disney should've strived for in my personal opinion, or at least something similar.
Yes!! That's such a good adaptation, but few people ever really mention it
Disney characters make the world change to fit them.
Ghibli characters grow to fit their world.
Yesss
The body dismorphia thing wasn't talked about in this video but I'll add to that later, too. The main reason is that I just feel like characters like Shizuku and Kiki are more relatable for the majority of teenage girls than Disney princesses are. Growing up, the only princess I could relate to was honestly Anna in Frozen, and that movie came out when I was 11! Also I agree that Disney girls don't have as much depth and complexity unless we count Els and Anna, who we don't give enough credit to. Frozen used to be overhyped, but now it's underhyped. I think people were sick and tired of the marketing and "let it go" being played 24/7 in every public place. I think having Elsa and Anna as the two different women with two different goals, and both being accepted (like Elsa wanted to be her own boss queen and Anna wanted to find true love, and it was shown both being a positive thing).
Also, I know the body dysmorphia thing wasn't tackled in this video but princesses like Ariel and Jasmin are too hyper sexualized, and they're supposed to be teenagers which is disgusting. Kiki, Shizuku, Arriety, they all have the bodytype of a normal teen girl. Also, the romance aspects in Kiki's delivery service and Whisper of the heart aren't forced like in the Disney movies. It's not like "I'm just a little bimbo in a tiny seashell bra that doesn't cover me, and I need a big strong man to save me" sort of thing. For Kiki and Shizuku, they aren't even interested at first but the male love interests actually help with their character development.
I couldn't agree with you more. Most Disney princesses are not relatable at all and aren't exactly depicted in a normal way as a teen girl should. That's why Ghibli does such a great job here..thanks a ton for the great comment! :)
@@miguelmunuera2601 thank you finally someone who agrees
@@jocelynecupcake 🙄Well, I DON'T!
@@miguelmunuera2601 🙄That's a ASININE comment if you ask me. A very shallow comment, more likely!
Ghibli tells stories about men and women. Disney tells feminist propaganda and misandry. It's two different worldviews.
👀👀 shots fired
one thing I can say as someone writing a very confident female character, there is a way to give them growth. I'm not saying you're wrong in some cases, but with my character, she is a very confident and enthusiastic artist. but the thing she lacks is the ability to truly connect with someone and have a real bond with people. Throughout the show, she learns empathy and other things she lacked at the beginning.
You did make really good points here, though 👍
That's actually a really good point! You're right 100%. You don't have to start out with a totally flawed character, merely a character that has room to grow in some aspects for sure :)
@@miguelmunuera2601 Thank you!
i always thought Gibili is more story cantered, even if you take out the main characters, there is still a whole world to explore. If you take out Disney main character, there is nothing much there.
Exactly!!
About the Ariel, tho. It's been like years since I've watched it when I was a child. But, either way, looking back, Disney could've focused and expanded more on the "mermaid feels pain walking on two legs" to show her strength as she needs to do so in everyday life, her persistence to live on land, undeterred by the pain and discomfort, wanting to be able to live normally without help, freely just like when she was on the sea. They could've also focused more on the 'living on land' part, like taking a stroll through town (with or without guide, hopefully not the prince tho), seeing how humans live and work, buying and interacting with stuff and people, old, young, men, woman; learning the difference between various cultures and things (like the way they live) from land and in the sea, maybe even made friends (playing with children, conversing with people similar to her age who isn't hostile, dismissive or catering to her, etc). She can even study, learning to write and read, about history, geography, law, etc from a strict but not mean teacher whose words paints a picture in one's mind (just like a storyteller). She can see how the prince works too, his responsibility as a Royal Family and how it relates to the people, etc. As I've said, it's been a long time since I've watched this, so maybe Disney shown some of the things I mentioned? Maybe, who knows. I only remember a few parts like her liking human things, signing a contract with the witch, saving the prince, the prince going to marry another woman (disguised witch), her father getting back that weapon thing (I forgot the name), and her marrying the prince.
No you're absolutely right. I wish they would've focused more on her learning about the human world (which was her initial goal in the first place anyway), but they barely explore that which is so sad
Disney has so much money to hire good writers yet even random fans can write better story than them 🫠 why are they like this lol
10:07 Wait, how does Mulan passes the Bechdel test while having only one female character, and Wreck-it Ralph doesn't?! (For those who don't remember, there's also Tamora who's pretty important, and _does_ speak to Vanellope, and _not_ about men.)
Mulan has her mother, grandmother and stylist that she talked to :) and Wreck it Ralph I was on the fence about but it could pass too!
Man this was so well written and produced, I know this video will make it big!! 🎉🙌
This channel is going to blow up for sure
Been saying that since Day 1!!
😂😂 I love this
You can easily replace it by “Why (older) Disney’s female characters (may or may not) feel real (and newer characters just don’t)”
The last good female characters from Disney were in Moana. From Pixar, Inside Out (or maybe Soul). From Marvel, Infinity War (part 1). From Lucas Film, Rebels and Clone Wars (forget the movies and series).
Interesting 🤔
I don't think Disney did a bad job in the past with their female characters. It's only recently with Elsa, Raya, pretty much all of the females in the live action Disney remakes and Asha. A traditional, feminine woman getting swept off her feet by an ideal man due to her good nature is not poorly written female.
I agree that a feminine woman getting swept off her feet isn't a poorly written one, but she has to have more to her personality than just the romance, or her love for that man. If not she has 0 depth
the "woke" comment was really unecessary, great video overall, but refrain from using the word "woke" as a negative bc thats not what the word means and it just spreads misinformation
Yeah trust me I hate it too 😭 I'll try not to use it in the future
This is such a fascinating video but I am curious! Did you know that Howl's Moving Castle is based on the book of the same name by Diana Wynn Jones? A lot of Sophie's traits that this video mentioned were traits taken from the book.
I know!! And that's fucking awesome. sometimes adaptations screw things up and stray away from the OG material but Miyazaki did a great job with this one
The problem isn't that disney make bad female characters, they just make bad characters in general. Their male characters are no better really. They're also outlandish tropes of princes, street urchins, and the like.
Ghibli and Disney are just very different things with different goals. Disney is making the most basic saccharine crap to appeal to kids and get big box office numbers and merchandising deals. Ghibli is serious art, the product of imagination and uncompromising vision of a creator who isn't so focusde on making good male or female characters, just making the best art they can.
I need to make one about their make characters too 👀
Whisper of the heart os my favorite ghibli movie ever. The movie gets over looked all the time, but show a girl's growth in her craft where she has depth and meaning, but she also has moments of great friendship and love
It's such an underrated movie in general
FINALLY! 😁 I was waiting for this video for a while, but I didn't actually think you'd make this, and yet, I was wrong.
Thank you so much 😊
Hahaha oh really?? You should've asked for it!! I always consider recommendations :) So glad you're hyped for it 😍
@@miguelmunuera2601 Actually, I did ask you for this video as a request in your first female protagonist poll, so thank you again 👍🏻
@@deenadallas2802 oh okay awesome I'm glad haha then all the credit goes to you for the idea! :)
There is a lot in this video that I can't agree with, simply becouse I think it takes a verry shallow look at disney movies, while in contrast grazing Ghibli movies with the indepth look they deserve. But on thing I can agree with, is that character development is handled extremly different between Ghibli and Disney. And I think there is a reason for it, that neather makes it good or bad, but explains it. That reason beeing the "nature" of the storys that are beeing told.
By and larg, Ghibli movies are what many would consider "coming of age" stories. Thus they thrive on character development, since that is the entire point of a story like that. There are still antagonists and obstacles to overcome, but they are there to further the characters growing up. (This is also aided by the fact that many of those obstacles and atagonists are more abstract, rather than actual characters. Natural disaster, the loss of passion, greed, etc.)
Disney movies on the other hand are more akine to "adventure" stories. You have your vilain or (easily) defeatable obstacle that needs to be overcome by the end of the movie. That's the main focus. The goal that needs to be reached. Thus character development takes a back seat and ocationaly only shows up in it's bare minimum.
I think the best example for this is "The Lion King". A movie that by all acords could have been a coming of age story. But instead we skip all the "growing up" part. We get a montage of Simba growing from a cub to a lion, but we don't actually experience his coming off age. That's becouse the movies fokus is on Simba defeating Scar.
Very good point!
8:40
Minor point, but seeking out Prince Eric was more of a means to an end. Her main desire, even prior to meeting him, was to be a part of the human world due to her dissatisfaction with ocean life.
True but doesn't it later become more about being with Eric? Maybe I'm remembering wrong though
@@danofsteel785 Ok but in the end we end with a quite superficial romance wich make Ariel more unrealistic
I love how you can explain such a complex idea without your videos being three hours long, it is so concise and engaging! And for a guy to be doing this type of video without making a type of comment that makes me pause just to cringe is incredible - and its such a plus that you cite ur sister all the time for perspective! 🤩
This made my day 🥹 thanks so much, I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I do try to make things concise but still packed with info. And of course, I love my sis so I'm glad I got to feature her in a vid :)
To be honest, your video is incredibly pleasant to watch, and even more pleasant to realize that you are perceived as a person who can be different. I loved watching anime from this studio since childhood and this helped to better understand people and not drive myself into the framework. You have done an amazing job and I am sure that a huge number of women are grateful to you for this video.💚✨
Thanks so much, I appreciate it a ton 🥹 Means the world to me..
I think this is a great video but I was confused about the point about masculine female characters. I can't think of a single disney lead who was notably masculine, or any disney movie where the heroine is expected to give up feminine presentation because they're seen as 'lesser' or not as serious as characters with masculine presentation, and that expectation is portrayed as a good thing (ie, I have seen that expectation been shown as an ideal of the villains or an obstacle that the heroine must overcome, but never as a goal for her to aspire to). Except Mulan, and thats only because her having to disguise herself as a man in order to do what she needs to is the entire premise of the plot. She still returns to femininity in the end (although a less "hyper" version of what she was expected to perform at the start) and that is seen as a happy ending rather than something to be ashamed of.
Personally I think the difference is less to do with masculine/feminine presentation, and more to do with depth of character. I would argue Kiki is a fairly boistrous heroine, but Ghibli movies actually care to give their characters lots of moments of quiet introspection, and so those 'masculine' traits/behaviours seem more balanced and realistic. If Disney had done Kiki's delivery service, I imagine they would make her seem a lot more obnoxious without even changing much about her character simply because Disney movies tend to avoid quiet moments like the plague. Everything is either an exciting event/revelation that forwards or complicates the main plot, a big visually cinematic moment, or a comedy bit. There's no breathing room for us to see the nuances of the heroine's character.
Personally, I would like to see more *actually* masculine female characters in films, I just don't think that Disney would do a good job at it and its not because they're "woke". It's because they are writing from a profit-focused formula and have been for some time now, you can tell because literally all of their characters are badly written including those that were at one point compelling. It doesn't matter what they make because it will always have those same deep-rooted issues.
I definitely see what you're saying!
the irony of a man making this type if vid is there, but I really think its necessary. I think you did a great job talking about this, and I believe this video was so well done. 👍
Thanks I really appreciate that 🥹♥️
Cinderella (animated not the remake) is one of the few female Disney characters from the early days that actually has depth. She’s often overlooked. She is empathetic and sincere, but also spirited, opinionated, and does what little she can to exist with some dignity in an abusive environment.
That's trueee
Imagine a 2D animated disney movie with Ghibli's animation.
I NEED THIS in my life. Someone's gotta make it
Or Ghibli with Disney animation. 😍
@@alexisfreeze nah disneys artstyle is best described by "homophobic"
My Favorite is Elsa, I love that my younger sister took Anna as her Favorite, then we would say that our brother (middle child) is Hans 😂
Because it would be ridiculous if he took Kristoff as Kristoff will be Anna's lover later, and my brother would be mad cause he become the villain, so he choose Olaf instead.
But still, we love to tease him as Hans 🤣
Oh, good old memory ❤
Hahaha that's so cute 😂 yeah I'd rather be olaf than Hans too haha
this is why I adore ghibli films even when I get older
No matter what age they never lose their beauty
Mulan was definitely an awesome one. She was so in depth with her being insecure about herself then grows to being a confident woman who saves China whilst crushing on a general. THAT is good character development. They should have lore regarding them that shows how they learn from their mistakes and grow from them, just like how people in real life do. I like how Ghibli takes real life struggles and has the characters grow and learn from them by having friendships and love interests, but not having those love interests be the main priority.
RIGHT?! Mulan is so fucking awesome
Doesn't matter if you're a man writing a woman as long as you treat them like people.
yes!!!
I’m so glad that Hayao Miyazaki openly dispises Disney ❤
😂😂
I think equating personal experiences with the ability to write those that supposedly share a fraction of those experiences is a folley that most who think about writing fall under. Writing is in itself a skill that is independent of the life you lived. Like how just because you lived your life around flowers doesn't mean you are an expert in drawing them, or can even do a recognizable sketch of a daisy. Despite living with a human body their entire life, professional artists spend hundreds of hours studying the human anatomy just so they can competantly draw them, and it's the same for writing I believe.
So it's no wonder that Miyazaki is so able to write female characters so well when he has gone through the work to become such a great writer. There's no more proof of this than in Castle of Cagliostro, where Clarisse is just the stereotypical damsel in distress, yet she is still such an amazing and complex character. She fails every single test regarding making a good female character, yet she is far better than 90% of all female characters ever written, including protagonist female characters.
She has depth, complexity, character development, and even gains agency where appropriate despite being forced to become passive by not only the villain, but the hero and the plot. Every aspect of the movie treats her as just a damsel in distress, yet she's the one who starts the story both by actively running away from her marriage at the beginning, as well as saving the hero twice in a flashback and halfway throughout the movie. She's instrumental to many parts of the story despite being treated as nothing more than a goal by both the villain and hero, yet what happens instead is that she gains independence and the will and drive to act upon it in the end.
The theoretically worst of Miyazaki's female characters ends up better than pretty much any Disney female characters (or most of Hollywood's for that matter) is quite telling of his skill and the lack of skill in western writers, particularly modern ones. Especially in terms of writing deep and complex characters, regardless of gender.
Wow I didn't even know this about the castle of Cagliostro since I haven't watched it yet. But that's honestly amazing that she's that incredible of a character
@@miguelmunuera2601 It gets forgotten a lot because it predates Ghibli, but it is 100% a Miyazaki movie. I don't remember off the top of my head, but he also directed a few episodes from the Lupin III show back in the 70s as well, though I imagine he didn't have the freedom back then to do anything too incredible, but it's thanks to that time that he made this movie which helped jump-start Ghibli.
How are you so underrated? This is the best analysis ever-
Made my day 🥹♥️
@@miguelmunuera2601Instantly subscribed!!✨
Great video! It’s amazing how adding depth to a character can make them so interesting-it seems like such a simple concept, yet it’s becoming rare these days. I think early Disney movies often drew from books, which naturally provided some depth or at least a sense of nostalgic value. Nowadays, characters often feel formulaic because the primary goal isn’t to tell a great story or even to reimagine one. The focus is on making money by appealing to the masses with safe, non-confrontational content. It doesn’t even matter if the movie is forgettable, as long as people watch it-it’s still profitable. Without a financial incentive to tell great stories, we’re left with shallow characters.
I think is we are honest, there’s a lack of memorable male characters too. The live-action remakes of Mulan and Avatar: The Last Airbender are prime examples. What made the originals great-the character flaws, growth, depth, redemption-was stripped away and replaced with shallow, forgettable eye candy.
In contrast, Miyazaki is commitment to telling a great story, and that really shows.
Absolutely!! And thanks a ton, I'm glad you enjoyed the vid :)
Finally someone talked about these woke trends and what they did to female characters 😭 atrocious.
Loved this video!! ❤️❤️ amazing job.
All it takes is some depth and complexity, as opposed to disneys manufactured disingenuous bravado
Well said 👏🏻👏🏻
It's actually horrendous 🤦🏻♂️ I'm surprised more people don't call this shit out
If you use woke unironically, you’re clearly not even close to being smart. Just saying
@@miguelmunuera2601Yes! It's just bullshit! And the worst part, no one knows the heck what it means!
Ghibli makes female characters. Disney makes stereotypes.
Pixar makes some good ones
Facts
why do people always have a "Disney is bad" mentality? i get they are kinda megalomaniacs and they're taking over a bunch of the movie world but some of you are predisposed to thinking their movies are bad. they've made some good movies in recent years and have some great ones from the early 2010s with likeable characters, Joe from Soul is a great protagonist for example, and Soul was made in 2020. Encanto had a whole cast of likeable, unique and even complex characters (Abuela for example). Mai from Turning Red also feels like a real pre-teen girl, but she won't be relatable to everyone.
Soul was GREAT but it's a Pixar movie. Encanto in my opinion was kind of average. The characters were interesting but the story didn't really intrigue me all that much tbh. They've made good movies 100%, but the bad ones outweigh the good ones recently
One portrays what a strong female lead is
The Other Portrays the IDEA they have of a Strong female lead
💯💯
Please do not take this the wrong way, but as a female who is fed up with a majority of horribly written female leads, I have always had big thoughts on this topic. I'm taking the time to write down my honesty and it is very appreciated if it gets read. 🥰 I'm also a geek for both Disney AND Ghibli, so I've compared both a lot!
Yes, I do agree that Studio Ghibli writes females accurately, more in depth, and actually gives them heroics that aren't focused on a heavy attraction for a male (which seems to happen a lot). These Ghibli women feel real and relatable. There are two Studio Ghibli female characters I personally relate to: Chihiro (Spirited Away) and Haru (The Cat Returns). Those two girls make me feel great in my own shoes and they inspired me in real life that my goals really do matter and that fighting for my freedom, voice, and passions are achievable. The male characters in both films are supportive of the female lead's strength and courage. That's really awesome. It's something I haven't felt from a Disney Princess, that's for sure.
Anyway, Disney has been obviously picking away at stereotypes for a long time, but you also have to understand that even their male characters are placed into stereotypical zones as well. Studio Ghibli is fantastical in setting but yet very realistic with their characters and people. But does this make Disney all together horrible at writing a female character? Absolutely not! There are plenty of female Disney leads that have depth. Tiana is one of them, and probably one of the most notable. You can see every single expression of hope, sadness, etc. in her face. You can see how she grows in spirit and how she maintains a beautiful strength throughout its entirety. Tiana is relatable for her strong-will and also life/racial struggles. Disney dives into a culture, time, and place and gives that woman a story. Mulan is also a very relatable character for any female who wants to be at any male's level in any field or goal. Merida is also an example of a strong female, but also a stubborn one who actually has moments of downfall. That is really realistic and even does a lot of tomboy or tough spirited girls a comforting service. They will feel a connection to her and relate to all forms of her pain. If anything, Disney's SCRIPTS are the problem and not their characters. The script ties everything together. Ghibli just has really good scripts, sorry Disney. (There's been plenty of good Disney scripts, don't worry.)
I honestly mainly put that warning up there at the top of my comment because I know I'm going to receive hate for feeling a lot like Asha from Wish. I know why people are hating on the movie, but to hate on Asha because of a bad script? I want you to observe her without the "bad script". Asha feels like she has a soul, despite what the internet says. If you pay attention to how she was portrayed, she is an empathetic hero, and a hero that isn't very common. She's in tune with the needs of others and puts that ahead of herself. Instead of letting herself struggle in her own cement, she motivates her journey around the needs of others. She's strong and capable and very brave. Her awkward and dorky traits are showing that she isn't perfect, which then adds to a realistic charm. She even put herself at so much risk! She even had moments of tearing up with a smile on her face... And those tears are a further symbol of empathy. As someone who was struggling to be understood because of high empathetic scales that I couldn't control, the balance Asha brought to it was absolutely soothing and brilliant. Forget about a bad script, Asha was fantastic. We're going to agree to disagree here, okay? So please don't spread hate to me solely based on my opinion about Asha. Also, Alice from Alice in Wonderland is another amazing female character. How about someone like Webby Vanderquack from DuckTales 2017? AMAZING. Watch that show for amazing female characters! Strong ones, too. Even the females in Disney cartoons like Phineas and Ferb are likable and relatable. And then think of Pixar... We have Elastigirl (Incredibles) and Colette (Ratatouille)!
And one more thing about Asha (because I cannot keep talking this is too long)... I am so glad she was written without a love interest (Starboy). Because asexual and apothisexual women need their voices to be heard in our world. We need more movies for them that have no lack of romance. I'm not saying to ban love interests for strong women, but I'm only saying that we do need to cut back from it. The issue isn't about Asha losing her love interest! The issue is the script being messy. Keep in mind, the movie is a tribute to Disney 100 and is there as celebratory and for references and isn't supposed to be perfect or your average Disney movie. You can dislike the movie if you want, but I strongly believe this hate has to stop. ESPECIALLY any hate aimed towards Asha.
I appreciate this video by the way, so thank you for taking the time to make it. I know how it probably feels awkward being a male and making the video, but you have my respect. We need more men to talk about how we can make female characters better. Of course, Ghibli is better at writing most females for sure! Both studios are just different, you know? I felt compelled to share this with the comments and I hope it left people in good spirits. Have a blessed day.
Thanks for the awesome comment!! I really loved reading through it and getting the thoughts and opinions of a girl that's put herself in the shoes of a lot of these great characters :) There are definitely some great Disney characters like the ones that you mentioned, in terms of Asha and Wish, I definitely see what you're saying but like you said I think we're going to have to agree to disagree hahah and that's okay! I do think she has some good traits for sure, I think she's more so just hampered by the bad script and story in general tbh. It's hard for a character to shine when the script/story are just poor. And definitely I think there should be characters with no love interests, I just think recently there have been many in Disney animated movies and I'd love to see a love story sometime soon :)
Thanks for taking the time to read my comment! Yes, I agree. I'm not saying no to romance in general, so I think it'd be great if Disney attempted romance again and added some more depth to it. You know, like the Ghibli romances! 😂 Not just about the prince and the princess being wed if you get what I'm saying. Just something way more meaningful.
I'm 100% in agreement with you about appreciating the move away from all female leads "needing" a romantic arc. It's refreshing to have focus on friends/family and other types of relationships as well, rather than constantly pushing the narrative that all people must want/prioritise a romantic partner.
Thanks for commenting that. I'm really glad someone else agrees with me. 😀
I honestly think the last good princess disney made was Diana. She's relatable (at least to me) and pretty realistic, she works so hard everyday for her dream, and almost couldn't get it. Something Disney rarely made you actually feel bad for their princesses, we're shown how much her dream means to her, one we can relate, and almost take it all away from her.
Yesss!! She's one of my favourites in all of Disney. Also the Jazzy music is SO GOOD
This is why Mulan is my favourite Disney movie.
It's impeccable. The songs too?!
This is why I love Merida fr💔 she may seem like a tomboy girlboss at first, but she has a lot of moments where she is vulnerable, scared, confused and in genuine need of help. She grows when she learns from her mother and starts seeing her point of view. She starts out *unwise* and if the movie was entirely directed by one person then I'm sure she would've had a compelling and complete character arc
😍😍
Ghibli gives me fanservice with their amazing written female characters 🥵🥵😍😍😍
LITERALLY
Super underrated channel. It was nice to hear everything you said and I definitely agree with your sister! This is also a good reminder for writers. I sometimes struggle in making characters (female and male) independent from the plot and letting them just be themselves.
I also despise how women are seen as a two side to a story. Like you wouldn't think of a woman when you would hear someone say knight or a soldier, or even a chef (which is ironic because women are often told to go to the kitchen, but once there's an opportunity to reach success suddenly they shouldn't be there), but they were, are and will be in those fields.
Thanks so much 🥹 Really appreciate it, and I'm so glad this can serve as a nice tool for writers :) and also don't be too hard on yourself, it's definitely hard to make great characters sometimes
You need to watch Frieren: beyond Journey's End. It had got some interesting main female characters with LOTR kind of setting.
I'm watching it right now actually!! I'm on like episode 12..it's fucking incredible. I'm absolutely loving it so far
I've recently started reading Robin Hobb (extremely late to the party, I know). Her female characters are AMAZING. I love their humanity and complexity, including quirks, obsessions, and contrasts. Maybe because her books are so fresh in my memory, but I think she's one of the greatest writers of female characters out there.
Omg I haven't read any of her stuff, I'll have to check it out
While I do love Ghibli, the classic Disney Princesses still have a special place in my heart particularly Cinderella, Belle and Mulan.
Some shown strenth through courage, some have the strength of character, like Cinderella whose kind heart ultimately rescued her from her bad home life by having loyal friends.
I believe it's like how Waymond from Everything Everywhere All At Once who said it best-
"When I choose to see the good side of things, I'm not being naive. It is strategic and necessary. It's how I learned to survive through everything. I know you see yourself as a fighter. Well, I see as myself one too. This is how I fight."
I don't need some Girl Boss™ character who is already perfect on paper, I need a character who struggles with relatable issues, someone to cheer for. This is why '98 Mulan worked and New Mulan didn't for me.
Beautifully said. I couldn't agree more. As someone that also chooses to see the good side of things for the most part, I can totally relate with that quote. The best characters aren't some unflawed Girl Bosses, but rather the ones that can learn and grow and adapt
I love the sheer RESPECT that Ghibli shows their movies. They respect the women, the men, the neurodivergent characters, the children, the landscape, the culture, the art, the story. All of it. They give all their heart and soul to the story because it's a story they want to tell, not because it's a story they think people will buy. It feels complete.
Miyazaki has always said that he refuses to make movies for his audience, he just makes stories he thinks are great stories, and that's the difference. He cares about the art of storytelling, not about selling
It’s a shame Wish scrap the romance with the star boy and villain king and queen. Especially for a hundred year anniversary.
agreed
It was never supposed to be a love story! Soulmate ≠ love interest!