I really like the lyrics “You can’t believe In honesty That your children can win a war” because it makes a callback to volume 3 when Ironwood asks Ozpin if he really believes that the children at the Academies can win a war.
I think it becomes even more potent when you consider the fact that we see neon and flint who are part of atlas academy not the military fighting on the front lines in vol.8
@@731winter helps Ironwood's character showing that he isn't someone to send children to die sucks they made him a bad guy but most villains have redeeming qualities
I'm sorry, but am I the only one that notices the repeating line of "Take my Hand" when in the fight that this song plays, Ironwood literally sacrifices his remaining non-cyborg arm to break out of Watt's hardlight shield? Cuz that alone makes the writing in this song incredible.
Caleb hyles has knocked it out the park with this one, Ironwood's heart is fading away and his actions as a "hero" may turn out for the better or for worse. "You can't believe in honesty that your children can win a war." *I really felt that.*
Daaaaamn, that artwork is chilling. Hero or antagonist, no question that Ironwood carried this whole volume. And Caleb's voice was the lynchpin in a song that carries the whole soundtrack.
@@madenightwing5989 I really hope that they dont make Ironwood into just a total psycho by the end of the volume. I'd like him to have a bit of redemption. Perhaps his calls in the long run end up saving RWBY and Co and drive back Salem, but seeing that they saved the people he was trying to protect he steps down as general and headmaster.
Bad Luck Charm I Must Say is Just As Accurate to me. But I'm probably just Biased A little because Qrow And Ironwood Have Always been tied for my Favorite Character Spot
My father served in the army before me and now it is my turn to carry out his legacy. He is a kind man and Ironwood reminds me a lot of him. But during his birthday he was not allowed to come and visit me due to the corona virus, the roads were blocked and he was left alone. He was so sad when i called him to check up on him. After i finished talking with him, i sent him this song and told him that he is my hero. And now here i am, an army officer making his father proud, i can't wait to see him again.
Ironwood went from just another character to my single favorite character in this entire series in one volume. You got to see who he is as a character through so many different situations. Even before the big shift in Gravity, you know him as a character well enough that you already knew what was going to happen. He was done so well. You get to see him as a competent leader at the start, actively taking advice from the Ace Ops and Team RWBY, with a solid plan (Maybe not the best plan, but definitely a better plan than anyone else had provided him with), rewarding Team RWBY for all of their help, trusting them with the relics, and overall being the best display of an authority figure in the show. But throughout all of that, you get the little hints of his more 'Unfortunate tendencies' as Lionheart put them. Unilaterally taking the old Schnee mine, jumping immediately to declaring Martial Law when the situation turns, sending his troops against Robin as an alternative. You get to see both sides of him through the volume, so when the shoe drops, you understand exactly what is going on, and you're left hoping you're wrong. For what little it's worth, I'm of the opinion that Ironwood is right. Obviously, saving people is what you should do, but the fact is that it's pretty easy to see why Ironwood would believe that it's not possible. They don't have time to evacuate, the resources they stock piled to fend off Salem were used up early to quell the invasion Watts caused, the army is exhausted, and Salem herself, an immortal magic wielding, grimm infected monstrosity, is coming to do the deed herself with no way to stop her. It would be wonderful to save the people of Mantle, but doing that runs the risk of saving no one. You can either try and save everyone or almost assuredly save some. It's a heartless decision, but sometimes, you have to save what you can. Besides, as far as people to try and change Ironwood's mind, team RWBY probably isn't the best choice since they spent the first 2/3 of the season keeping important information that may have changed everything from him. Had he known what he does now, maybe he'd have used that time to expanded Atlas, evacuating the people of mantle to safety so that when this situation came up, they could save everyone. Not saying it would have, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that he'd change his plan from a direct assault when he finds out she can't be killed.
The main problem with Ironwood's plan has always been what he doesn't know... and a lack of flexibility in case something goes wrong. It's a truth, one lesson I fear James never learned: It is a bad plan which cannot be changed.
@@kereminde lack of flexibility is definitely a weakness of the tinman. But the way i see it, Team RWBY has said that Ironwood's plan is unacceptable. But if you're going to do that, you have to have something better to replace it. If Team RWBY had an actual coherent plan to counter Salem's Invasion, then maybe they'd have a leg to stand on. But as dangerous as Ironwood's cold logic may be, Ruby's blind emotion is arguably worse. Ironwood would definitely save some. Ruby may well kill everyone. Though that may change in volume 8, since the additon of Ozpin gives them a serious edge as far as information goes. Still, we'll have to see what happens. It may also force Ironwood to adapt since his initial plan is no longer possible without Penny's cooperation, willing or otherwise.
@@PhantomNull13 Oh I agree in principle, RWBY and JN-R needed some counter-argument with merit. But they couldn't come up with one on the spot, and had the ultimatum put in front of them "with me or against me". (And let's be honest, that's actually fairly realistic they have no plan. They've been largely reactive rather than proactive most of the series, and having smaller-scale goals to deal with.) The big problem is: Ironwood's solution is a short-term solution. Long-term, it's not going to work as well as he thinks it is. Especially not as there's a saboteur around which he knows about (and let slip his mind). Conversely the "Beacon gang" have something which isn't going to work in the short-term but could likely work out long-term if they can get over the current danger. But the centerpoint of RWBY's issue isn't how Ruby's leadership is "blind emotion". It's how all the help is actually available to turn that impulse into something which can work... if anyone there had been willing to help. Again, I don't expect Ruby and her friends to have all the information they need to make a solid plan... that would be unrealistic, since they're all still very young and inexperienced. To bend a quote from somewhere else: "They don't even know what they need to know." And the best part I have out of ending Volume 7 is thinking "both sides have a point here, but they're working against each other away from a solution instead of working together towards one". But I'm betting the actual solution to come out of Volume 8 is going to rely on a lot of compromises and inability to pull anything more than a "we live to keep fighting" out of this. Like Penny said... it's gonna be Beacon all over again.
@@kereminde yeah, if they could reach an actual compromise, things would be much better. But if the ending showed anything, it's that they really didn't have a chance to try. There wasn't really that much time between Salem's message and her arriving. So sitting down to try and work something out simply wasn't feasible if by the time both sides are done laying down their sides, mantle is on fire and grimm are feasting on the citizens of Atlas. You're entirely right that his plan is a short term victory, but in the face of a full invasion looking to murder everyone, ensuring that people survive is an immediate concern. What happens after can be worked out once they have a moment to breath. The sabotuer was Watts, wasn't it? And Ironwood personally threw him into a cell, so i think it's pretty safe to say that as long as Salem doesn't have more forces in Atlas, he's out of commission for the time being. Unless I'm forgetting something? Volume 8 is going to be crazy. Maybe they'll somehow end up on the same side again, saving Atlas and Mantle and handing Salem her most direct defeat yet. Or it could be a complete loss with Atlas being destroyed, Mantle burning, and Team RWBY forced to flee to Vacuo to escape her wrath.
@@PhantomNull13 The saboteur I actually meant was *Cinder*. Who also was responsible for Beacon's fall, so it's no small feat to completely forget about her - even leaving the same message in "the black queen".
The chorus can be read in two ways. Either as a hero who will risk his life to keep others safe, or as a tyrant who will do what he thinks is best for you whether you like it or not.
There's a thin line between those, and in some cases the only way to determine what side of it someone is on is perspective. No man believes himself to be evil.
I absolutely freaked out when I heard “I would die” in the episode. Literally screamed out Caleb’s name and felt so proud of him. This full version shows of his vocals more. Amazing work from him as always, awesome song from Jeff, and great lyric video, Flynt! Thanks!
I suspected he would be making an appearance in Vol 7 after he uploaded a cover of Red Like Roses featuring Cassie le Williams (I still lost my shit when this started playing though, no denying that)
@@buddyb3165 I didn’t see it coming. Really thought Caleb had just reached out to her and got her on board cuz he was just plain awesome. Only after hearing “Hero” did I make the link and see...Like, “Oh.....OOOOOOOOH!” XD
I just watched the whole series and despite being a pretty big fan of Caleb for a really long time, knowing he did covers of some RWBY songs and such, I had ZERO idea he did an actual song in the show so getting to that made my jaw drop, I hear those insane guitars with the "I would DIE" and felt the hairs on the back of my neck
Ironwood was my favorite character this volume. He was so emotionally and motivationally complex. His VA and his facial expressions were just: mm yes. And his fight with Watts was one of the most visually spectacular this volume ALSO CALEB HYLES IS ALWAYS A YES YES YES I'm so glad he got to be on the soundtrack!! Thanks for the video Flynt! It looks amazing as always!
@@tomsimpkins1211 fr. Even though both sides were not always in the right, Ironwood was actively trying to make things better and trying to plan things out for the long run. Team RWBY has fought and lived through the fall of Beacon, as well as other dangerous threats, which you think would have taught them things, but are still too naive. They suffer from the hero trope of wanting to save everyone, so that, and ESPECIALLY the writing (let's not get into that), is what's making the main cast less enjoyable and side characters like Ironwood stand out. But of course, pRoTaGoNisTs and ships will always win over logic and reason in this fandom, sadly
@@tomsimpkins1211 Is that true? I've seen a lot of people hate team RWBY and think they're stupid/naive for wanting to save Mantle and opposing Ironwood.
Tom Simpkins Eh, more power to the people who still side with him then. RWBY has so little hope of actually being relevant in the upcoming battle against Salem compared to an entire army and academy of Huntsmen that I don’t really want to follow anyone but Ironwood, just to see how he fights this battle.
I really hope we get more backstory on how Ironwood got to be this way. He didn't live through the Great War, so odds are he was raised by someone who did. And I can't help but feel like he's very inspired by the King of Vale (possibly Ozpin's prior incarnation), and the willingness he had to win by using the relics. I wonder if that means that Oz is looking back at a reflection of who he used to be...
It can be that, since se know Ironwood knows about Ozpin's reincarnations. But I thunk which most made him like how he is right now is the Fall of Beacon, which left him extremely traumatized and paranoic that his defenses will never be enough. He filled up himself with fear, and therefore actually became the main reason Grimm attack Atlas, while he just tries to run away.
Vale is a big part of his current trauma and paranoia. Whatever caused him to lose most of his body probably plays another part of his "sacrifice anything for victory" mentality.
I think the Fall of Beacon really affected him because of how completely Ozpin failed. He had a lot of faith in Oz, and really wasn't ready to take over as leader of the fight when Oz died. You can see that in how he reacts when he learns Oscar is the new Ozpin, and how shattered he looks when he's told Ozpin isn't speaking to anyone. He feels the burden of saving humanity has fallen to him (SOLELY him), and he begins to crack under that pressure, because he can't share it with anyone. He tries to implement the antithesis of Ozpin's plan (revealing the truth to the world rather than hiding it), but ends up in a similar position. His fatal flaw is not only his willingness to do anything to win the fight, but also his belief that, absent Ozpin, he and he alone can solve the problem. In contrast, Ruby has put up with a lot, but she shares that burden with her team, and that makes them collectively more resilient than Ironwood ever could be alone.
"What if all the plans you made... were not worth the price you paid?" certainly sounds like it could be aimed at Ironwood. The defiant "You can't have my life, I'm not your sacrifice" could also be seen as being directed at Ironwood, rather than Cinder/Salem, since he talks so much about sacrificing things for the greater good.
I actually think that Sacrifice is a song about Raven and how she know the secrets of Ozpin since we don't know who use the first question I just asume that was Raven but since she seems didn't know how the Vault work I asume that it was the previews maiden that use that question and knew she couldn't handle that war
@@michaelramon2411 ah but sacrifice also has the lyrics "Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your goal" which sounds an awful lot like a criticism of Ozpin's constant reincarnation.
@@Shadowlegendlover It becomes even worse when you realize it could possibly be foreshadowing for Atlas and Mantle being destroyed by the end of volume 8. Imagine Ironwood surviving the destruction, and realizing that if he put more effort into protecting Mantle, then perhaps it wouldn't have been destroyed. I wonder what Ironwood would do if CRWBY went this route.
I love how -- in the intro version of the chorus -- the "trust me" is practically spoken instead of sung. It has so much more impact and drives the tired yet fiercely determined mind of Ironwood home.
Ironwood is without a doubt the best written character in the series. His story is a tragedy. I hope it's not too late for him, but it's not looking good.
When he shoots Oscar at the end of the volume, you can see the brightness in his eyes dissapear, like when characters die. He's dead inside, there's no salvation for him now
There’s only two ways I see his story ending now. Dying at Salem’s hands broken or sacrificing himself in a blaze of glory to save everyone, knowing that he wasn’t perfect.
The worst part about all of this is that Ironwood is not completely wrong. He goes to extreme yes... but well... "There are people in this world who only deal on extremes, and if you think you can beat them with anything less then extreme measures, then you are naive"
And his actions are a mix of due to the scale of the problem being something he cannot do alone and therefore large-scale control is strictly necessary, and the “heroes” of the show lying to his face and withholding critical information.
@midgetydeath Honestly? I don't blame Ruby. The situation was completely fucked and they had no idea who to trust. But I don't blame Ironwood either. Salem is the one I blame. And no, I don't blame Oz, at least nowhere near as much as I blame Salem.
@@joemaxwel1997 Yang should have trusted him, he watched her (apparently) butcher a fellow competitor on national television and gave her a hyper-advanced replacement arm with the deepest sympathy he could offer. He *literally* gave her the power to recover the spirit she'd lost, by trusting in her when not everyone did. Blake... Probably shouldn't have trusted him. End of the day he's the top brass in *the* military force keeping her people under bootheel. Even if Ironwood employs Faunas himself, that doesn't change what he's done for the SDC in the past, and I doubt she'd be perfectly fine with letting him into her circle of trust without a *lot* of action. Weiss, by contrast, *should* trust him implicitly. More than anyone else in RWBY she's *definitely* seen the lengths he's gone to fighting directly to keep things in order, defending her and her line as best he can, as well as *her* kingdom. She should be standing by his side from line one, just like her *sister* does, and at *least* try to work out a compromise. And Ruby... Ruby should have trusted him too. She knows he was there at the Battle of Beacon. He stood there, without an army, without power, without a *shirt,* and still stood, fought, defended the people when they needed him to. For no personal gain, but the good of the many, he fought like a hero then, and directly acted to inspire those around him. But nope, gotta just throw that all out the window and treat him like a paranoid despot who *isn't* facing down an immortal witch god with his bare/iron fists and the world's most fucked up "Semblance." Lets just act like it was an honest mistake or that RWBY were actually *right* not to trust him and that wasn't a self-fulfilling prophecy, good grief...
Strategically Ironwood’s plan was the best. It maximized Atlas’s ability to continue fighting. Basic military tactics say that if the situation goes as FUBAR as it was in Atlas the best thing to do is retreat with as many of your forces as possible and reengage from a better position. As ruthless as it sounds, the civilians of Mantle are nowhere near as useful for fighting Salem as the Atlas military, and a giant flying fortress is just too much of an asset to throw away
If you was on Gen. Ironwood position. Having the biggest military power in the whole world, and knowing that EVIL itself was coming to get something that would kill many. You can't tell anyone close to you about that EVIL, you can't trust who is allied or not with Salem. And to make things even worst, later someone comes to you and say: "Salem can't be killed", shattering any hope you have. Would you make better choices than him? I'm sure would not. What a great character Ironwood is.
I'd definitely not resort to nuking the people I'm supposed to be saving. That's insanity, if you want to generalize that you are batshit nuts too. If it got to that point, I'd cut my losses and distract said EVIL and have the rest of my forces take as many people and the object said EVIL wants to have away to safety ASAP.
Don't put an embargo attracting grim. Don't shoot escape craft saving a city you plan on abandoning anyways. Don't leave Robin alive. Those were his three biggest mistakes. You can certainly do better.
For some reason, this resembles like Lionize, where the character feels he's the only one that can make the difference and isnt able to trust on anybodys help. Btw, pretty nice work Flynt
Adam and Ironwood are both "false heroes" - characters who think they are heroic but are not. In Adam's case, he was ultimately selfish, viewing his heroism as a path to gratification, reward and power. ('"It's time I get what I deserve.") Ironwood is, strangely enough, too selfLESS. He is so concerned with the big picture, and with protecting people no matter the cost (especially to himself), that he completely sheds any system designed to hold him back, which means there is nothing to stop him from making terrible decisions but his own judgment. Both characters, however, have an all-consuming sense of their own righteousness that makes it impossible for them to recognize or correct their flaws.
@@michaelramon2411 Indeed! While Ironwood isn't trying to be Lionized in the way Adam was, he is in the fact that it is sorta his way or the highway type of attitude, and believing his way is the absolute right way regardless of consequences. Everyone is a Hero in their own story regardless if that's actually true or not. It's true Team RWBY wasn't as honest with him as they should have been right off the bat and it's fine for him to be upset about that, but getting hung up on that during a crisis isn't the time or place. Did their choices cause him problems? For the most part no, it actually helped more often then not during most of the volume. Point is Ironwood goes on and on about trust but it's him that doesn't trust others or is to willing to give them a chance if you pay attention. Look how much push back he gave Team RWBY when it came to most of their suggestions and possible solutions. And ironically they got good results by Team RWBY taking their own initiative in things more often then not, that Ironwood had to adapt to as a result. Does that mean Team RWBY is always correct on how they handle things or the choices they make and can do no wrong? No! Absolutely not. And Ironwood isn't a bad guy either, but he isn't willing to often take chances out of "Fear" and thus over all only majorly trust himself to know what's the right thing to do for everyone rather then hear out others/consider others ideas or opinons on the matter, and thus why he also values loyalty more then actual companionship. Ironwood is afraid of losing control of things and the unknown, so there is a desire to always take charge of everything but you can't know everything or control everything, life doesn't work that way. And you do need to take unknown risks, and realize when a situation is out of your control and that sometimes you need help/support more then loyalty/obediency from others as different opinions and perceptives can find solutions maybe you can't see but they can because they think differently as a free thinking individual where someone who mearly follows orders and doesn't think for themselves can offer. In short, neither Ironwood or Team RWBY are wrong in their ways but divided as Salem wants, and not coming to a compromise or understanding they will fall. The only way both I feel can achieve results close to what both desire at the very least is if they work together instead of against each other. And I feel Team RWBY was always holding out their hand in a sign of friendship and trust (despite with holding some stuff for a long while there) but Ironwood's behavior made them feel uncertain/uneasy about just doing so as well because they could see he wasn't a trusting individual/less of a team player then he puts himself off to be. Ironwood always being more closed off on his end, demanding loyalty over cooperation and thus is the type not to out faith in others though I do think in his own way he was kinda trying but not really all that much as he should have. That's why Ironwood out of the two though will fail the hardest, not because he doesn't have his own good ideas or intentions but he only trusts himself in the end/he seems almost afraid to trust others. I mean look how he shot poor Oscar in the end. Like I get the fact he is upset, but literally trying to murder someone over it? The guy is very mentally and emotionally unstable/paranoid at this point to where he is dangerous in my opinion. Oscar wasn't threating him so there was no need to shot him, Ironwood has lost total self control at this point and he definitely isn't acting in anyone's self interest other then his own self righteous. Edit: Also "There is no sacrifice that I won't make" well I hate to say it but he isn't really personally sacrificing anything in the end. The people of Mantle who have sacrificed countless times being given the short end of the stick in Atlas are the ones being forced to sacrifice everything at the end of the volume while Ironwood flees. "I'll risk it all to keep you safe." Also sounds hypocritical under said context but yeah.. Sorry I understand why he's doing what he is tactically to a degree, but I got to point out the irony in those words there. 😅(I like Ironwood but to say he did nothing wrong/made no mistakes on his end I feel like is looking at him with rose colored glasses. As a character the guy isn't perfect, or always right, he is human like anyone else and can be a hypocrite and make bad calls. The problem is the guy refuses to forgive others for theirs or accept making his own(he overly obsesses over them as well when he does) which isn't a good thing. ) (Actually considering how much the people of Mantel is forced to sacrifice for the sake of Atlas and Ironwood's plans, I think their the real heroes. Like seriously the guy is so quick to forsake Mantle and it's people for the sake of winning a war, (he only helps protect it when it's safety jeopardizes Atlas and his plans as well) in that light it's kinda hard to say Ironwood is actually being heroic there more so then as cold and indifferent that he seems ok with being according to the song. 😅 Though I thought the point about being a hero was to care about others thus why you strive to try and save them, not just because it's your job to Ironwood. And sorry for the shade Ironwood fans but had to call him out on that.) (Apologises for the long explanation/comment there. 😅)
@@xKrispmasx It is worth noting that Blake and Yang, disobeying Ironwood and leaking information about the communications tower to Robyn actually solved one of Ironwood's biggest problems (the raids on his supply convoys). They understood what needed to be done to get the job done, and they did it. Exactly what Ironwood believes he does. The problem is, Ironwood views Team RWBY as assets rather than allies - he doesn't treat them as equals with autonomy and the ability to make decisions, but as more soldiers to follow HIS decisions. True trust is not just about sharing information and not keeping secrets; it is also about believing that if a person does do something behind your back, they did it with good intentions. That's really why Ironwood snaps - he won't accept that a secret kept from him made things better. In his (nearsighted, and somewhat hypocritical) view, RWBY could only have withheld the information for bad reasons. I would say that Ironwood has made some personal sacrifices. He tore up his arm to defeat Watt. He's endured hits to his reputation and public standing (not the most important things, but still something) and ignored threats and insults. Most importantly, he's undergone an enormous amount of stress that is crushing him emotionally (as seen, for example, in his awkward hug with Qrow). Is that the same as the sacrifices of the Mantleans? Probably not, and Ironwood has volunteered to make sacrifices while Mantle has not. But I don't think his commitment should be questioned (or even necessarily his empathy), only his farsightedness.
I find there's a really interesting contrast between this song and "Lionize", the two "false hero" songs. Lionize is entirely Adam ranting about his enemies and how much everyone will love him for destroying them. There's almost no mention of the people he his allegedly fighting for outside of how much they will love him when he's done destroying everything. It's pretty easy to see that he's mostly deluding himself. "Hero", by contrast, is all about the people Ironwood wants to protect, and how much he's willing to give up for them. He specifically mentions that he cares nothing about his reputation, and how he'll accept hate if that's the cost of saving the people. But it goes over some of the same beats as Lionize, most notably "I am might, I am power, I'm due process, I will smite..." which reminds me of Adam's "I have the strength to do what's needed...". Of particular note there is "I'm due process", which, yes, is a cute reference to his weapon name, but is also a horrifying line - Ironwood believes he IS the law. There is no check on him at all, and no one who can overrule him when he is wrong about something. Ironwood is willing to do anything to protect his people, but he has also convinced himself that he and he alone is right about EVERYTHING, and there is no contingency for if he is not. The people don't get a say in how they are protected, or what is done for them or sacrificed for them. They just have to trust him. And if they don't? He'll ignore them. Remove them if they get in his way. Because he is always right, and what he thinks should be done is always the best course of action for everyone. Ironwood thinks he is nobly sacrificing for the public good, but really he's just made himself a tyrant, if a well-meaning one, and that shows he's almost as delusional as Adam. (This is especially relevant as Volume 7 repeatedly demonstrates that Ironwood is actually cracking under the pressure of facing Salem on his own, and his judgment is slipping. There is nothing more dangerous than a determine man who is incapable of realizing when he is wrong.) There's also the fact that, as Volume 7 demonstrates, being willing to sacrifice ANYTHING is not actually a good quality, but I think I've said enough.
I don't know if he's singing about those he wants to protect or about those he don't want to fail. "My oath to you I won't forsake" in particular, seems directed to someone instead of everyone. Just to who did he make that promise? He never promised Remnant's safety, just Atlas and Mantle, and he'll willingly abandon Mantle if it means that Salem will be defeated, which makes it rather weird. So, I submit the theory that the song isn't about protecting the people but upholding his promise to Ozpin, as a guardian of the world.
Thats a great take on the matter because kinda it plays into to who he referenced after which is the "Tin Man" who is heartless, so sacrificing anything and everything to protect others is a heartless outlook but its not all bad when you look at how the odds are stacked against him
Yeah And Mariquit, I think that is definitely a decent interpretation, especially considering lines like “I would fly into the sun if that would keep *OUR* dream alive”. He’s clearly talking to Oz in that moment. But with the other lines about sheltering in his arms, (which would be kinda weird if directed at a millennias old warrior) make me think it’s a mix of both talking to Ozpin and the people of Atlas.
Yup. For all that that others dehumanize him (and that he dehumanizes himself), Ironwood is one of the most emotionally driven characters in this series, for better and for worse. He can play it cool sometimes, especially when he needs to convince himself he's making a rational decision, but he's almost always on crisis mode.
"I am might I am power I'm due process I will smite" 1) Ironwood is a paladin confirmed 2) this is the ultimate paladin song 3) Civil War Part 2: Electric Boogaloo is going to have a kickass soundtrack
Nothing paints General Ironwood in such a true light as this song. he was a man who would give it all, do ANYTHING to protect those he swore to protect. but in that asperation, in his will to give it all, do anything, he crossed lines. it was for everyone, but it cost so many. he truly did care for them, that's why he was willing to be the monster for them, but some lines aren't worth crossing no matter what.
I disagree. Being a hero isn't about fighting villains. It's about protecting people, helping them, giving them hope and courage. Fighting villains is often a part of that, but if a hero is nothing without someone to beat up, they're not a hero.
True. But, there's something that's been bothering me. If the villain gets defeated, what will happen to the hero in the end? A hero's main purpose is to defeat the villain. What will happen to the hero? Will he or she lose their main purpose in life? Their meaning of existence? And what will happen if they screw up? Won't everyone will condone them for the mistakes they made? They saved the world but they made one mistake. For example, collateral damage or some of the people they saved were injured in the fight. The public will condone them for not trying hard enough. It didn't matter if they saved their lives or saved the world. One mistake, boom. Everyone's pointing the finger. Also, what about the heroes that didn't originally wanted to be the hero? Those people didn't choose to be one. Instead, they were immediately given the job of hero due to people thrusting the burden onto them. For example, you were summoned into another world and already, you were tasked to defeat the demon king. You didn't want to do it. You just want to live a quiet life. But, you have no choice. You have no choice but to defeat the demon king. And that's not accounting for whether the demon king is truly evil or a victim of circumstances or fate. To me, becoming a hero or a villain is the greatest tragedy. Cause in the end, they will either be forgotten or condone by society due to their past mistakes, origin or anything at that matter. Of course, this is my personal opinion and if you don't agree with this, I understand. Just wanted to put in my two-cents. That's all.
@@brianbrush5107 Wasn't directly thinking of Ironwood at the time, but it's one of the reasons I tend to get angry at him/worry about him. He's too focused on the idea of some single tangible victory.
@@willieoelkers5568 This is my personal view again, if you don't agree with me, that's fine but to me, Ironwood is neither hero nor villain. He's a victim. He wanted to protect his people whatever it takes even at the cost of his humanity. Same with Ozpin. He did everything he could to make Salem nothing but a myth because, let's be honest. An immortal queen of monsters that has been causing humanity nothing but pain and death will definitely freak me out. It'll definitely cause a global panic. That's why he kept her existence a secret because he knew that humans can't handle it. The reason Mantle took it well because Robyn was there and she's a symbol. They love Robyn. If it was only Ironwood, they'll probably lose their minds. Not to mention that he didn't know that Salem's immortal. So, they all believed that Salem can be killed but she's not. Let's go back to Ozpin. In a sense, he's done nothing wrong and him being a little more distrusting is reasonable. He's been alive and trying to stop Salem for God knows how long. How many times he's been backstabbed. So, Ozpin's technically hasn't done anything wrong. He's been a 'hero' who's been defending humanity for decades now. But, when his secret got out, boom. Ozpin can't be trusted. He's a bad person. It's all his fault. Humans are like that. Team RWBY talked about not being like him and they pass the buck onto Oz but they still acted like him. One can argue that they kept it from Ironwood because if he knew early, he'll probably succumb to despair quickly. But, I digress. The same thing is happening to Ironwood. He's technically doing good and his reasons are just but because he made mistakes and has done some things wrong, he's labeled as a villain now. Humans are selfish. It's easy to put the blame on someone instead of stopping and thinking whether is this right or not. When something clashes with your ideals, you'll do anything to reject it and stay true to yours. That's what's happening in RWBY. Well, the infighting between Team RWBY and Ironwood. The ideals of sacrifice vs save everyone. In the end, no one wins. Everyone's contradicting each other.
A lot of people in this comment section caught the Due Process thing, but not many people caught the “Mettle I’ll deploy” line, which is a reference to his Semblance. Speaking of Ironwood’s Semblance, it may just be the stupidest thing in RWBY, because ALL IT FUCKING DOES IS GIVE HIM DETERMINATION. It’s not even a Semblance at that point.
When you stop looking at Ironwood as "The guy opposing Team RWBY," he's a very complex and tragic character. He's just a man who was forced to stand against a god, and it's breaking him.
@@snowpegasi What plan? When he realized she was unkillable the only solution he could come up with was to abandon his plans and gtfo with the city. I'll leave any debate as to whether or not he was right aside, but that wasn't a plan, that was a kneejerk reaction.
@@ChaosDraguss His plan was to draw back from the frontlines to consolidate more forces in the way of a unified and informed Remnant, and to get the artifact away from Salem, it wasn't perfect but it would solve mantles problems as Salem was only after the artifacts and would have chased him away from Mantle, yeah things worked out fine in the end, but only through bad writing and people magically coming forth with ideas they should have mentioned to Ironwood way earlier when there was time to weigh the consequences of their actions instead of during an emergency where you can't afford to second guess your plans and just have to move on with what you have prepared in advance.
@@snowpegasi You're basically making shit up to paint him as being more level headed than he was. Rewatch the end of volume 7; he started cracking with paranoia when he realized Cinder had been inside. He also acknowledged that he was leaving mantle to die, so none of this "solve mantle's problems" bs. He didn't give RWBY even a moment to try and come up with an alternative plan, his reaction was "this is what is going to happen, and I know you're gonna get in my way so I'm arresting you." He didn't even say anything about the rest of the plan you made up in your head, his only "plan" at this point was to get the artifacts away from Salem at all costs.
@@pyro4755 That's not what he's talking about. Ironwood's plan before he snapped was solid, no one argues against that. But that's not what this guy is talking about, see his reply about Ironwood's plan to "draw back from the frontlines."
@SuperMarioWilliam Huh? Who did he brainwash? Ironwood has been incredibly honestly to his friends and allies (The same can't be said for RWBY) he never manipulated anyone. Anyone who trusts and believes him have made that decision on their own. He hasn't tricked anyone into trusting him.
Listening to the lyrics make Ironwood's fall so much more tragic. Stuff like 'Hope's not gone, just hold on' and 'my oath to you I won't forsake' show that he's deadly serious about being a protector. He wasn't taking power or doing terrible things for its own sake, but because he's convinced that he has to. That if he didn't do everything in his power and failed, then that would be all on him. If Team RWBY had been willing to trust him and not act like they know better, things might not have gotten so extreme.
During his "trial" once it was revealed what Jacques did, the other council members including Robyn mentioned that ironwood was never after the power, but the means to protect Atlas (Mantle) and the rest of the world. Only when things started to fall apart did he get desperate and try to take full control, removing everyone who got in his way. I don't see this as him "turning evil". He just broke under the pressure of trying to stop Salem. This just goes to show how powerful Salem is even when she isn't directly influencing the situation.
I don’t think either Ironwood or RWBY were objectively wrong when it came to the choices they made here, which is what makes the whole thing a tragedy. It’s not a clear-cut situation at all.
@@CT22222 Yep. Salem’s dangerous because she creates situations where there’s no right or easy solution, and watch her enemies fight over what they consider the best option.
@@CT22222 Agreed. Their objectives were different, and Ironwood went a little crazy at the end, but up until that point, he just tried to stop salem from destroying the world. He had his sights set on the bigger picture, not just one city. It's a morally gray area, but I kinda agree with him on a lot of things. I think there should've been much more communication between RWBY and Ironwood, though. It might have turned out different if they had RWBY's plan as plan A and Ironwood's plan as plan B, incase RWBY failed.
@@everettbernsen46Sorry but what plan? Ruby and her dumbass team at no point offered an alternative. They just paid lipservice to the idea, never actually putting forward anything useful beyond killing some grimm. All their "plan" amounted to was "deal with salem without destroying her because impossible" (how?) and "save people" (cant save everyone all the time). They actively lied to Ironwood and refused to trust him when not only was his plan reasonable and quite moral with the available information, but also actually may have united humanity, like the gods wanted. Literally the only debatable action of his was shooting Oscar at the end of volume 7. Afterwards they steer hard into making him stupid to overcompensate for accidentally writing a smart and reasonable character.
I really love this song and Ironwood it really sells the idea that Ironwood really is trying his best to save his people. He for all his faults is entirely selfless. He doesn’t care that he might be hated if that saves a few more lives. You put this man In a situation where if he sacrifices himself he will save countless people he will do that without hesitation. He has the potential to be the greatest hero. But he was ill suited to this war and circumstances drove him away from the correct path. It’s a modern tragedy of a man whom so desperately wants to save people and in the end lost sight of the persons he was so desperate to serve.
Honestly I think Ironwood made the right move. If he shot Atlas up he’d keep two very important relics from Salem, now Salem is poised to get all the relics. From the get go RWBY are seen to be unnecessarily distrusting of ironwood and lie to him from the start. After this they continue to lie to him dispite Ironwood clearly trusting them and being glad they’re there, it’s only after RWBY’s deceit comes to light where he starts to go off the rails. Throughout the series he is seen to be more selfless and human than characters like Weiss for example who, once fully believing ironwood can’t be trusted, gives him more power by getting rid of her father, one of his few sources of opposition. The Schnee patriarch is a prick don’t get me wrong but Weiss is clearly shown to be unable to see past herself. Then comes the idealism. RWBY refuse to comprise when it comes to lives which is commendable but rather than abandon mantle to save the rest of remnant they take their chances with a being that they flat out know is unstoppable. That I believe is the line where idealism becomes stupidity, risking two relics and a maiden on bad odds would be foolish enough but they know that they can’t beat Salem and still hand her those vital pieces on their little chess board.
what are you on about? he was doing the objectively best possible thing in the situation. team rwby were the ones to ruin quite literally everything, even ren points out how they are not ready to even be huntsmen, let alone make the decisions that ironwood is making. if rwby never went to atlas then ironwood would have saved both the city of atlas and the rest of the planet at the cost of one city (who were free to evacuate on their own before rwby made ironwood go totally off the rails for no reason).
@@comyuse9103 he was right up until he lost it about RWBY telling the councilwoman. And they were right to tell her and bring her on board. He was *This* close but he allowed his paranoia to get the better of him. Hell all he had to do was prioritize the staff and winter maiden over RWBY and secure them both before he siced his team on them and humanity would have won regardless. Rwby were complete fuck ups but Ironwood’s flaw was what pushed things sideways.
@@claytondavis6835 they were completely wrong to tell anyone else. ironwood and salem were fighting as shadow war with each other, literally every single person in the city should have been considered a potential enemy and kept in the dark unless proven otherwise. i'll admit he should have acted much faster with the staff, but that is about the only mistake he made.
@@comyuse9103 considering she was acting against Salem’s agents? Probably could have been trusted especially as she was the one running against The candidate Salem was backing. His response should have been anger sure but going from that to “let’s kill them and Ozpin’s reincarnation and prioritize this over the theart to the maiden and artifact” is the issue. RWBY were idiots but they are well meaning idiots whom are the only people he can trust outside of his most inner circle to be anti-Salem. Kick them off Atlas first chance you get? Sure that’s understandable. But killing them and ignoring the fact you have hostiles going after your VIP and the thing keeping your city in the air? That is stupid. If he had at least tolerated their existence for another 30 minutes he would have Cinder and Neo buried under 3 teams worth of hunters. Winter as the winter maiden and everything under control even if he decides to off them after that. He just needed to hold off for a short while.
If vol 8 is what they did to ironwood, I want to see them make team RWBYJN-R put in situations where each individual has to deal with an equal amount of trials testing their character at its limits.
Take my hand I'm here to protect you Nothing will stop me Understand There's no sacrifice that I won't make I'll risk it all to keep you safe Trust me to be strong I'll be your hero, just hold on I would die Without regret, I'd offer up my life With zero reservations I would fly Into the sun, if that would keep our dream alive Deliver you from harm Shelter in my arms The fear will surely fade Know right now the plan I made will guide us home We'll survive this storm I will fight For you no matter how I am despised Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might I am power, I'm due process, I will smite Our enemies destroy Mettle I'll deploy No chance that I won't take My oath to you, I won't forsake Hope's not gone, just hold on Take my hand I'm here to protect you Nothing will stop me Understand There's no sacrifice that I won't make I'll risk it all to keep you safe Trust me to be strong I'll be your hero, just hold on What if it's true as they say That I don't have a heart That I'm more a machine than a man? What would that change Would it matter at all? I've made my plan Hearts and minds may not agree Emotions topple strategy You can't believe in honesty That your children can win a war Take my hand I'm here to protect you Nothing will stop me Understand There's no sacrifice that I won't make I'll risk it all to keep you safe Trust me to be strong I'll be your hero, just hold on
Atlas true and only protector, too noble in volume 7 he was the victim of character assassination on vol 8, he deserved better, Rest in peace Tin WoodMan.
I remember when I first heard this song in the show and looked at the lyrics I thought it sounded like a father protecting his kid. And came up with the theory (or well, headcannon) that Ironwood actually had a kid but they died somehow. Even though the full song kinda debunks that I still like to think of that. Especially the line “You can’t believe in honesty that your children can win a war.” Like his kid once fought Salem or died trying to protect someone. I also think Ironwood would be a pretty good dad.
HUGE SPOILER: (do not click unless you have finished watching Volume 8) Miles (one of the main writers) confirmed that James Ironwood died in the finale of Volume 8. Rip potential storylines and the potential fight with Qrow. ;( very very sad news. The loss of Ironwood is in my opinion a larger loss than Penny.
When I got to this song on the soundtrack I was like “I swear to god they better utilise Caleb’s vocal range on this damn song”... *I wasn’t disappointed*
Volume 7 left a bitter taste in my mouth. Volume 6 team rwby and co give Oz flack for keeping secrets that'd be useful for their predicament but they become hypocrites in volume 7 by doing exactly what they criticized Oz for. Hell most of the problems could've been solved if they actually took the time to explain why Ironwood's plan suck instead of leaving him in the dark like they criticized Ozpin did to them.
I'm hella late to this comment because I just started watching the show again, but that's kind of the point. Not to sound like I'm belittling your criticism or anything - it is annoying, but it was clearly written with that intent. It shows the main characters aren't infallible. They even address that Ozpin made the same mistakes, and in the end they're proven wrong that the ends don't justify the means. They gave Ozpin character growth without him even being present for it, because by the time he returns, now they understand him on a deeper level, having done the same fuckup for reasons they thought were just. I dunno, maybe it's my smooth lizard brain, but I think that was great writing.
@@AWACS_SnowblindOzpin made no mistake in refusing to inform the CHIILDREN of his secret, he had every right and reason to do so. Ironwood on the other hand did everything right with the information at hand. I cannot stress this enough, the man has never done anything wrong up to that point. In fact, he's only ever helped and got no thanks for it. Ruby's retarded "argument" boiled down to "it aint right" while presenting no alternatives, literal child behaviour. She then witholds CRUCIAL information from him all while reaping the benefits of the TRUST Ironwood placed in them. Point is, where Ozpin had some rationale behind his decision, the dumb kids just acted on their fefees and a good man and his whole nation paid for it.
@@AWACS_Snowblind " It shows the main characters aren't infallible." Yet the team faces no real consequences or flack and has alot of plot relevant people even a god saying how correct they are and none of them actually have any real time introspection of the F up the caused
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." That's probably one of the most over-used quotes these days, but it fits.
I mean he's not though honestly compared to the main cast he's the only one with a plan to save as many lifes as he can he's the only really noble one here and before anyone brings up "He shot Oscar" No he shot Ozpin Oscar is going to die anyway consumed by the ageless monster that is Ozpin.
@@viraltang his plan when he thinks Salem can be killed is basically take over the world. pull the military back to Atlas, tell everyone that she will kill everyone let the world panic causing Grimm attacks leaving the rest of Remnant to ruin, then sent the military to "pick up the pieces and help rebuild the kingdoms" aka install his people as administrators of the rest of the world with no force that can stop him. and his plan when he learns she can't is to leave the straight up abandon the world and take Atlas into low orbit with him as dictator
Ironwood is so misunderstood. You just have to listen to this song and see what he had to do while Team RNJR was traveling to understand him. He's fricking DONE. Months of stress, fighting, planing, keeping secrets and a deadly dosis of Jacques Schnee killed his human heart, his empathy and somehow his mind. He's just following his plan to protect the people because this IS the only thing he can even think about without completely melting down... It's totally wrong what he did, but at this moment he was afraid and lost his trust in Team RWBY/JNPR and Qrow... You remember when they said "He looks tired" in EP 1 of V7? They where god damn right. He literally is the Hero who sacrificed everything. They couldn't have done a better job with this song.
The fact this song was used before Ironwood turned heel was genius. It's like that old saying goes. "You either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain...."
Except he's far from being the villain. An antagonist, maybe, but one that people can rightly side with due to Team RWBY's hypocrisy and wishy-washy attitude.
@@YormanGina Exactly. Everyone is deeply in love with the protagonists-understandable-but then overlook how hypocritical and selfish they are being. Ironwood has been willing to be the hated one for everyones sake.
And yet, he reacted exactly how she wanted him to when she announced her arrival. It's funny... in insisting he won't be "another Lionheart" he threw himself to the other extreme and made himself an enemy all the same.
Today I learned that this song is much MUCH more meaningful than it seems on the surface. The lyrics go "I will fight For you no matter how I am despised Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might I am power, I'm due process, I will smite Our enemies destroy Mettle I'll deploy" Mettle is the name of Ironwood's semblance. I didnt know this until today but the way it works is that Mettle is basically tunnel vision. Mettle is a passive semblance, like Qrow's Bad Luck, and it gives Ironwood a constant emotional buff in so far as he will not waver in focus or resolve, to the point of extreme tunnel vision. When James says "I will fight" he means it, to the death. "For you no matter how I am despised" He's saying that no matter how bad it gets he wont give up. "Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might." He's willing to be the villain for the sake of the greater good and he has the strength to back it up. "I am power, I am due process, I will smite" He is the Judge, the Jury and the executioner (and its a double entendre) "Our enemies destroy" We are in danger "Mettle I'll deploy" My semblance will win this war. James isnt a madman turning villain, he's a fallen paladin (Remember when he introduced the Atlesian Paladins in...seaason 2 I think?) He's a good person with greatness in him but due to the monumental circumstances his own semblance is pushing him more and more into being a cold, heartless, metal warlord....almost like a Tin Man. Bonus points, remember when Ozpin said he'd seen good friends and allies turn towards darkness and betray him because of Salem? We thought he meant the Cowardly Lion.....but it turns out it was James Ironwood we had to worry about the entire time.
pretty sure v8 only happened because people liked him more than rwby and the writers forgot the one thing that made him great from earlier volumes and that would be his empathy, every disagreement he had with ozpin was based on saving lives or being worried about sending children out to fight his wars, he made the Knight robots to keep actual people off the battle field, he gave all the kids at the fall of Beacon the option to save themselves with no judgement, he gave a stranger an arm because he felt responsable, he defended Weiss at the cost of his own image with the upper crust of atlas, his downfall was just the writing team not knowing their own characters well enough.
@@snowpegasi i don't agree it is a great story of rise power downfall and regret. Ironwood is a awesome character and even his downfall is perfectly written in my opinion. A man can only take so much before he breaks inside and as seen in v7 and v8 it was to much for him. Great character writing. As they say either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
Really, the only thing Ironwood did wrong was threatening to blow up Mantle, and even then, I get why he did it. Even as worst, general Ironwood made more sense to me than all of team RWBY & Co. Their basic mentality is “the power of friendship will unite the world”: but it didn’t. Now they’re who-knows-where, with no known means of escape. Nice job girls, you really showed the big bad general who is the boss. Now Salem has two relics, not just one, an entire kingdom was wiped off the map, no need for Grimm & all the people you just saved; are now stuck in the middle of a giant grim incursion. Well done, bravo.
You know what, your both right ! It is Ruby’s fault ! Even after admitting it and supposedly vowing to do better, she was still being childish ! And not in a good way like she used to ! If you want to really blame someone for Penny’s death, don’t blame poor Jaune, blame her !!
@@dylananthonyriley254 she could have at least taken responsibility for the things she did wrong...it won't bring anyone back, but at least it would she that she's matured at least a little bit...
Yo this songs brings so many emotions, from Ironwood trying to stand strong for Atlas for his people, to facing true fear and trying to what seemed him running away and thinking those at the top will survive. This song slaps my emotions so hard! I love it!💘
A good theme song can express ideas about a character, thus strengthening how their story is told. A GREAT theme song can tell a character's entire story all on its own.
I find it ironic that, given the name of his Kingdom, Ironwood made the mistake of taking upon himself the burden of Atlas, to hold up the sky, to hold up the world by himself. He truly thought that he could do it, that he and those he trusted could stand against an immortal being and the nightmares she had spawned and stop her once and for all, to save everyone, not just Atlas but all of Remnant from Salem and her plans, only to collapse under a weight that no one person could ever hope to bare. After all the Atlas who held up the sky was a Titan, and Ironwood is but a man, no matter how much he may try and be something else he is bound by the laws of humanity and no human can hope to hold up the world by themselves. In the end, the sky came down upon him and crushed him, it shattered him into a thousand-thousand pieces and broke him, the realization of the impossibility of his self-appointed task driving him to become the very thing he sought to save his people from, a monster, after all "You either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".
Thank you so much for this. Ironwood is one of my favorite characters and I'm so glad we finally get a deeper look inside in song form. My favorite track off the new album
I love the idea that the three headmasters, besides Ozpin, are inverted versions of the characters in 'The Wizard of Oz'. Lionheart: The lion who lost his courage. Ironwood: The robot that emptied his heart. Theodore: The scarecrow who lost his mind.
@@JM-vr1br From what I gather, Theodore's notorious for being quirky and changing his mind constantly. I could see that somehow spiraling into, shall we say, insanity.
Best character in RWBY right now. Love this man so much! RWBY has needed a character with moral complexity for a long time and Ironwood did it perfectly. The kind of complexity where a portion of the audience can plausibly go "He's doing the right thing" And this song is AWESOME!
Like the overbearing parent having the best interest in mind for the child they are trying to protect; Ironwood is doing his best with the situation he was given though going about it in the wrong way. How can you expect the child to protect themselves when we all kick the bucket if you don't allow the child to make the mistakes. Ironwood's character in the volume was fantastic and I won't deny that he had the best interests of the people under him in mind when he did what he did. Imagine being your countries best defense against a danger that they have no idea against and the fear that would cause to form in most individuals. By saying Team RWBY is honestly not their best chance at stopping the invasion of Grimm with Ruby's silver eye power (though we don't know how often she can use this power and how much of a toll it takes upon her body.) An ability that can basically oneshot any Grimm is paramount to success against Salem. Ironwood doesn't do much to elicit trust from those who don't follow him to a tee. Team RWBY actively are on the fence in the Volume on telling him that Salem is immortal and learning that they "betrayed" him doesn't help either in Team RWBY's favor. Can you save everyone in a situation like RWBY's ideology is; no absolutely not and the naivety of Team RWBY is one their biggest flaw to Ironwood. Ironwood's flaw is that no sacrifice that he isn't willing to take. Ironwood is treating the lives that he is supposed to protect like pawns and we see is downfall into a antihero at best and a villain at worst because of it.
I agree with most of what you said. My only disagreement is about team RWBY and JNR believing that they can save everybody. I saw the actions they took as knowingly taking the higher risk of battling Salem as their moral position on handling peoples lives. Ironwood tries to take the acion with the lover number of people saved but a higher succes rate. Team RWBY wants to take the route with the lower success-rate but the higher number of potentialy saved lives. Team RWBY and company are no longer naive enough to believe they can save all people. Rens near mental breakdown at the end is testament to that.
@@justaredstring7517 I am in favor of team RWBY and JNR that's mostly because theyre the main characters and their choices will likely be the correct ones(because this is a story) That said I think Ironwood's choices and actions are understandable(cept trying to kill oscar, that was a bit much). Everyone's choices, actions and morality is a matter of perspective. For example, Team RWBY and JNR's desire to save everyone is commendable and I honestly want them to succeed but from Ironwood's perspective, they're far too much a wildcard and most importantly they follow their hearts over their head. They withheld vital information from him(for logical reasons) and betrayed him by informing Robyn about his plan. It worked out because Robyn as Team RWBY suspected wanted the truth and worked with them but that was a direct betrayal of trust. If they'll do it once what's stopping them from doing it twice? Thrice? What happens if they go rogue again and trust the wrong person? I also agree with your comparison of ironwood taking the chance of higher success rate over team RWBY lower one. That said I don't think they have the experience, ability or power to take on Salem. Just because something is harder to do doesn't mean you can accomplish it with enough willpower, faith and emotion. I'm sure that they will eventually overcome these limitations but I hope that there are many more sacrifices before they do. Afterall neither side is truly 'wrong' they just have vastly different views and at the core of it all both Ironwood and RWBY want as many people as possible to be safe. Team RWBY wants a 'perfect victory' while Ironwood wants a victory.
From what I can understand RWBY's hesitance to reveal what they learned is tied to both Lionheart being a Traitor, and Ozpin himself not telling them the whole story
In this case it's the overbearing parent vs A literal army of nightmare creatures, and he has the choice of saving his immediate family, or risking everything in a fruitless endeavor to save his more distant relatives.
Can't help but respect ironwood for his iron will (keke, get it?) Although he definitely could of done better to achieve his goals, he wasn't exactly in the wrong. This song also pretty much captures him perfectly, so nice job!
I think about it this way, even though ironwoods plan is bad, he is a war general. He not only wants to win the battle, but the war as well, and sacrificing lives may have to be a reality for that to come to fruition. He played it calm when he found out what team RWBY did and not telling him about Salem, it was a justified reaction. Also, this man who doesn’t know who he can trust, or if he can trust anyone anymore, he put his trust in the few people that he could, and those people betrayed him yet again, first Lionheart, now team RWBY. The whole Oscar thing, in all honesty was justified, as he was about to hear the same spiel from another teenager who thinks they got this whole thing figured out and how his plan was wrong, and would not work (even if it wasn’t a good plan) I understand that he is tired of being questioned and lectured by teenagers who think they know more about this than him, so I think that he does deserve the hero song, because he knows when to make the tough decisions, and when to say that enough is e-fucking-nough
Not to mention he knew about Salem loonnnggg before RWBY did. Oz surely must have told him SOME stuff about her, even if he did hide mountains worth of secrets. He, in reality, would be ANYONE’s best bet against Salem because unlike Oscar, whom all he really has is Oz in his head, Ironwood has the experience needed to be able to actually fight Salem. Not her specifically, but her bigger, badder guys like Watts. He’s trying to do everything he can, and thats the worst part.
Connor McClure Those teenagers are the only reason mantle didn’t get destroyed so far, working with them was the only time he was actually stopping Salem’s minions plans and it’s him not listening sooner that caused this mess
*SPOILER WARNING* Following Ironwood's death, listening to this song now has more of a impact to me listening to it, just gives me more respect and wants me to bang my head to this song even more
Ironwood is still a Hero. But only in the Classical Greco-Roman understanding of the term 'Hero'. For them, the term 'Hero' combined attributes of Christian-moral based Heroes and Villains both and the basic description of 'Hero' was Olivander's Harry Potter quote: "But I think it is clear that we can expect great things from you. After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things. Terrible! Yes. But great." Which brings me to the next point. All Classical Heroes will eventually enter their downfall slope where their failure can only be atoned by their tragic and, most of the time, meaningless death and it follows a simple thematic plan: -Ignorance (thanks to the Deus Ex Machina of Ozpin not telling him need to know details earlier) -Hysteria (when learning of Salem from Ozma's tidbits) -Paranoia (when learning of her allies and their capabilities from Ozma's tidbits) -Circumstances (the world post-Fall of Beacon) -Relentless (his post-Beacon actions to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING he knew to do) -Insomnia (he hasn't slept in over a year...literally) -Haste (Ironwood's fucked up decisions during Team RWBY stay, all done for the Greater Good and At Any Cost because he didn't know better) -Withershins (meaning 'in a direction contrary to the sun's course, considered as unlucky; anticlockwise', Ironwood turning away from Ruby and the Simple Soul, ordering the arrest of Team RWBY) -And, finally, Hamartia. (Which means 'to err' or better yet, 'to miss the mark' *Pyrrha×Cinder flashback*. Where the inherent tragic flaw of Ironwood, arrogance, overpowers all his other virtues thanks to all the above said, what qualifies as the error or flaw can include an error resulting from ignorance, an error of judgment, a flaw in character, or wrongdoing. Ironwood had all of that. But the point of James' irreversible tragic fall is him shooting Oscar Pine who still was mostly the little kid and not Ozma)
Sorry man, but the "simple soul" is not the simple soul that started out. I would never consider supporting Team RWBY anymore. Its quite clear that their arrogance yet delusions of morality to be a better embodiment of the writers of RWBY than that of functioning heroes.
@@NoahofWill nine people disagree with you. and even if they did not, he still has the right to express it. furthermore, it is not an opinion-it's an objective FACT.
His willingness to sacrifice anything for the sake of all he holds dear-Atlas, humanity, Remnant-is James Ironwood’s greatest strength and his greatest weakness both at once.
Indeed that seems to be the intention. And since Ironwood is planning to take Atlas out into space, there would be no telling what would happen. They can't be certain about how safe they'll up there sinse no one on Remnant has gotten to space. I feel he's making a huge risk that wouldn't give back as much as he hopes to.
I love this character, but i hate what they did with him, that excuse of it happening because of his semblance is stupid. apparently "mettle" is a passive semblance that is always active and constantly effects his decisions , but with no indication of when it's taking effect and when it isn't, it sounds more like a convenient excuse for him to suddenly go super villain and start shooting innocent people, and then want to blow up his own city. that's doubly so when you realize it was never mentioned in the show at any point whatsoever, and even the writers can't agree on when it was active. One says that when ironwood pulls his arm out of watts hard light shield, it was mettle that made him do so, while another says that no, his aura was gone, so mettle couldn't have been active. not to mention there's never been a "passive" semblance that's just always on. they have always needed to be consciously used, then again they bounce back and forth between how aura works too sometimes it's passive, other times characters forget to turn it on. the lack of clarity and consistency aside, having a mind altering semblance active at all times brings up many questions about his agency and decision making, how much of ironwood was actually ironwood? if his aura is depleted would he be free from the mind controlling effects of his own ability? which that alone takes away from his downward spiral into doing bad for the greater good, because it's just the semblance making him do that. or not, since there's no way to know if it was always in effect, never took effect, or flickered on and off.
Mettle was the excuse for the poor writting this season, It was completely possible to make Ironwood the antagonist without going all out moustache twirling villain like they did. All it would take would be to keep making things going wrong and he needing to escalate little by little until by the end he'd have become the monster that they turned him into instantly
Yeah, I hate that they passed everything off as "its his semblance so we don't have to explain it", especially when he was ALREADY PERFECTLY SET UP TO BE A COMPLICATED VILLAIN. Everything about villain Ironwood (at least in theory) is in line with his previous characterization. He believes that he knows best, that only Atlas (an extension of him) can save everyone else, that he and he alone can be trusted to fix things and that everyone else just needs to fall in line for their own sake. It's why he's a hero under Ozpin's guidance and a villain without it- his sometimes overbearing but goodnatured attempts to protect his loved ones and the world, combined with his paranoia and fear, result in the Atlas and Mantle we see, and all of his actions honestly make sense looking at them from his point of view. But no, it's just semblance bullshit. Fuck the writing in this show
It makes me sad that Ironwood gets so much hate when he's possibly the emotionally and mentally strongest characters in the show. The man cares more about protecting as many people as he can than he cares about himself. But yet people will call him a villain and say team RWBY are the heroes as they're seen abandoning a kingdom to die.
I've tended to use 'protagonist' and 'antagonist' in most cases. (Except for Salem's group, that's some card-carrying villains right there.) Between the start of things and now, we've moved into a situation where the world isn't painted in black and white, it's much more complicated than it looked at the start. The sad thing is, much like the Fall of Beacon, there's not really any good choices here. There's only "bad and less-bad".
@@kereminde that's my point. Ironwood knows the situation he's in and is making a difficult choice and being logical. But so many people hate him for it and side with team RWBY who's only argument as things are falling apart is basically "the power if friendship will save us all"
@@ShawneeLad117 I don't hate him for it. I understand his reasoning, and I sympathize. But he's wrong with thinking it's going to work out. Salem does not need to take Atlas, she simply needs it 'out of play'. Me? I don't side with either of these two groups. Or Salem's. I'm with the people waiting for Arnold to lose his shit when the new Volume starts, and getting popcorn ready.
The thing I love about this song is that you’re either hearing the desperate plea of a hero who wants to save someone, anyone, after failing previously, or you’re hearing the justifications of a tyrant who believes they know best
Why did they butcher such a fantastic character ;-; At least this song and your edit of it is great especially if I don't think about how his semblance ruins his moment vs Watts
“It is said that while this Tin Man found his heart long ago, that he forgot one important thing; It was nowhere near as tough as the rest of him. His skin turned away blades and his resolve bolstered hope in his ally’s, but it would be his heart, his empathy, that would be his undoing. Not in losing it, but thinking it invincible. Nothing destroys someone quite as much as putting trust in another, sacrificing for them, and then being betrayed. In the end, the Tin Man did not lose his heart. It was his heart that would fail to hold the weight of the sky. He was no titan, no immortal, no god. Only a man who thought he could save someone. But None could have saved the world alone. And so, the sky fell.”
Ironwood has an honestly shocking character development, but also a really well done one. He believes he is doing what is right, but since Glynda isn't there to guide him and care about him (she challenged him, but she truly cared), he let his work and duty crush him into misguided fear and hate.
Hm. Well, that, and Team RWBY actively refused to trust him even though he gave Ruby the Relic as a sign of trust. Ruby was worried about what Ironwood would do if he learned that Salem can't be killed. Ironwood took it in stride, meaning that Ruby got worked up for nothing. So when Ironwood demanded the Relic back because she proved herself to be dishonest, I rolled my eyes when Ruby started whining.
ironwood was doing what was right, the fact that he was betrayed at every turn by people who either didn't know what was going on (which is understandable, the people of mantle were out of the loop for a reason) or by total idiots who never matured past 13 (team rwby might have single-handedly given salem the win at atlas)
I like how theres two ways of interpreting the song. As a hero determinted to protect everyone no matter what, or a tyrant who thinks he knows what best to help everyone.
I absolutely love this song to death. As a member of the military, Caleb really hit the perfect pitch and feeling as the singer here. The lyrics also really hit home with me. As a soldier, we're always willing to give our lives to protect those we love. Also, as a side note, I just have a sickening feeling the very slow opening to this song might play during something tragic. It just has that tone to it. However, this is awesome regardless and I may or may not have had this on repeat all day while I cleaned the house, tahaha.
Question: What do you think of the "I'm due process" lyric? Doesn't that imply that Ironwood sees himself as the law, and won't let anyone tell him he's wrong?
@@CABRALFAN27 Well, if we take the series at face value, then no. He's a member of a council which decides the laws, yeah, but he seems himself as "due process" meaning people have to indeed go through him in order to break the laws and get away with it but he's only one part of that cog. I left my opinion on this song and Ironwood as a whole over on Adel Aka's channel on his "Ironwood: Hero or Villain" video. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
And as a soldier you should understand how easy it is for someone who believes in sacrificing and fighting for the sake of others to become like Ironwood when taken too far. It's an issue all throughout the chains of command. Fascist egocentric paranoids who believe they know best. That's what Ironwood became and it's a tragedy because a military lifestyle makes it easy to be that way.
Imagine if Ironwood was team RWBY's temporary adopted dad/guardian lmao. I'm not sure if he would be all overprotective dad mode or if he would pull an ozpin. "General ironwood sir, the children have started a food fight and are currently destroying the cafeteria, sir!" "It's fine." "But sir, one of the children was blasted though the roof!" "It's fine" "But sir-" "It's FINE"
This should've been volume 8. He doesn't overreact, looks outside and doesn't see the world on fire "Oh okay Salem's just a big ass liar. Let's go beat up a fire witch, maybe meet the winter maiden whilst doing so"
![Symphony [With Lyrics] (A.B.A Theme) - Guilty Gear Strive OST](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mQM6Oq5OkBk/mqdefault.jpg)
![RWBY - Red Like Roses [FULL Cover] - Caleb Hyles (feat. Casey Lee Williams)](/img/n.gif)
"It takes twenty years or more of peace to make a man; it takes only twenty seconds of war to destroy him." ~ Boudewijn I, King of Belgium
nice one
Our former kings name is Boudewijn
Still, good try at writing it if you only heard it and don't know the Dutch language
It wasn't in a RWBY cover that I would expect to se the name of one of our Kings. But he's right.
@@shneizeldream6444 sorry, I used his English name
@@ultron4724 In French, it's the same, don't worry about it.
I really like the lyrics “You can’t believe In honesty That your children can win a war” because it makes a callback to volume 3 when Ironwood asks Ozpin if he really believes that the children at the Academies can win a war.
Volume 2, episode 2
200th like pog
I think it becomes even more potent when you consider the fact that we see neon and flint who are part of atlas academy not the military fighting on the front lines in vol.8
@@731winter helps Ironwood's character showing that he isn't someone to send children to die sucks they made him a bad guy but most villains have redeeming qualities
@@731winter in a perfect world, they wouldn't be there.
I'm sorry, but am I the only one that notices the repeating line of "Take my Hand" when in the fight that this song plays, Ironwood literally sacrifices his remaining non-cyborg arm to break out of Watt's hardlight shield? Cuz that alone makes the writing in this song incredible.
Mind blown.
That's so ironically hilarious 😂😂
"Take my hand", Makes sense.
It’s not “hold hands with me” it’s Full Metal Alchemist shit like he’s sacrificing a limb for the people’s safety in return
Jeff Williams is a goddamn genius.
Caleb hyles has knocked it out the park with this one, Ironwood's heart is fading away and his actions as a "hero" may turn out for the better or for worse. "You can't believe in honesty that your children can win a war." *I really felt that.*
He forgets, they're not children anymore.
He did
Same, I felt it too
Willie Oelkers yeah, he did forget
I loved that reference to Volume 2, but they're not children anymore
This song fits him too well. Feels like he's pushing himself so much, hell makes me wanna give the guy a hug.
Don’t worry qrow gave him one.
@@Lost_045 he needs another one i think
I volunteer a hug as well!!
@@Rebecca-nw2ce I volunteer as tribute
Don't try, I don't like the thought of him pushing anyone else off a cliff
Caleb Hyles + Gen. Ironwood + FlyntofRWBY = *PERFECTION*
Uncanny allies form together
Honestly ironwood had some of the best character development
"I will fight for you no matter how I am despised" that deep
Caleb’s voice was just perfect for this song
Yes
I've been following Caleb for a while now and discovered he had been making covers for RWBY and is finally solidifying an official song is awesome!
Vladthe Grim
Probably thanks to Casey Lee Williams who is the main vocalist on RWBY songs except for this one.
Daaaaamn, that artwork is chilling. Hero or antagonist, no question that Ironwood carried this whole volume. And Caleb's voice was the lynchpin in a song that carries the whole soundtrack.
True heroes have to make tough sacrifices.
@@slayer8284 And sometimes generals have to make horrific decisions to win wars. There were never any easy answers for Ironwood.
@@madenightwing5989 I really hope that they dont make Ironwood into just a total psycho by the end of the volume. I'd like him to have a bit of redemption.
Perhaps his calls in the long run end up saving RWBY and Co and drive back Salem, but seeing that they saved the people he was trying to protect he steps down as general and headmaster.
It’s very fitting for his monologue in chapter 10
@@NasonStClair-qj3iw You mean where he cackles like a supervillain? How did the writing get so bad so quickly? :(
No RWBY song ever captured the essence of its character's personality as much as this one.
One thing lmao
Bad Luck Charm I Must Say is Just As Accurate to me. But I'm probably just Biased A little because Qrow And Ironwood Have Always been tied for my Favorite Character Spot
My father served in the army before me and now it is my turn to carry out his legacy. He is a kind man and Ironwood reminds me a lot of him. But during his birthday he was not allowed to come and visit me due to the corona virus, the roads were blocked and he was left alone. He was so sad when i called him to check up on him. After i finished talking with him, i sent him this song and told him that he is my hero. And now here i am, an army officer making his father proud, i can't wait to see him again.
Thank you for both your and your fathers service
I am a future navy medic. Corona sadly has delayed my processing so now I'm going to boot camp at like September sometime?
Antistaticc Sorry to hear your training has been delayed, but good luck for September and your time in the navy!
Thanks Aidan, means a lot and i hope that your training goes well Antistaticc and please never give up no matter how hard your training will be.
Hooah sir
Ironwood went from just another character to my single favorite character in this entire series in one volume. You got to see who he is as a character through so many different situations. Even before the big shift in Gravity, you know him as a character well enough that you already knew what was going to happen. He was done so well. You get to see him as a competent leader at the start, actively taking advice from the Ace Ops and Team RWBY, with a solid plan (Maybe not the best plan, but definitely a better plan than anyone else had provided him with), rewarding Team RWBY for all of their help, trusting them with the relics, and overall being the best display of an authority figure in the show. But throughout all of that, you get the little hints of his more 'Unfortunate tendencies' as Lionheart put them. Unilaterally taking the old Schnee mine, jumping immediately to declaring Martial Law when the situation turns, sending his troops against Robin as an alternative. You get to see both sides of him through the volume, so when the shoe drops, you understand exactly what is going on, and you're left hoping you're wrong.
For what little it's worth, I'm of the opinion that Ironwood is right. Obviously, saving people is what you should do, but the fact is that it's pretty easy to see why Ironwood would believe that it's not possible. They don't have time to evacuate, the resources they stock piled to fend off Salem were used up early to quell the invasion Watts caused, the army is exhausted, and Salem herself, an immortal magic wielding, grimm infected monstrosity, is coming to do the deed herself with no way to stop her. It would be wonderful to save the people of Mantle, but doing that runs the risk of saving no one. You can either try and save everyone or almost assuredly save some. It's a heartless decision, but sometimes, you have to save what you can. Besides, as far as people to try and change Ironwood's mind, team RWBY probably isn't the best choice since they spent the first 2/3 of the season keeping important information that may have changed everything from him. Had he known what he does now, maybe he'd have used that time to expanded Atlas, evacuating the people of mantle to safety so that when this situation came up, they could save everyone. Not saying it would have, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that he'd change his plan from a direct assault when he finds out she can't be killed.
The main problem with Ironwood's plan has always been what he doesn't know... and a lack of flexibility in case something goes wrong. It's a truth, one lesson I fear James never learned:
It is a bad plan which cannot be changed.
@@kereminde lack of flexibility is definitely a weakness of the tinman. But the way i see it, Team RWBY has said that Ironwood's plan is unacceptable. But if you're going to do that, you have to have something better to replace it. If Team RWBY had an actual coherent plan to counter Salem's Invasion, then maybe they'd have a leg to stand on. But as dangerous as Ironwood's cold logic may be, Ruby's blind emotion is arguably worse. Ironwood would definitely save some. Ruby may well kill everyone.
Though that may change in volume 8, since the additon of Ozpin gives them a serious edge as far as information goes. Still, we'll have to see what happens. It may also force Ironwood to adapt since his initial plan is no longer possible without Penny's cooperation, willing or otherwise.
@@PhantomNull13 Oh I agree in principle, RWBY and JN-R needed some counter-argument with merit. But they couldn't come up with one on the spot, and had the ultimatum put in front of them "with me or against me".
(And let's be honest, that's actually fairly realistic they have no plan. They've been largely reactive rather than proactive most of the series, and having smaller-scale goals to deal with.)
The big problem is: Ironwood's solution is a short-term solution. Long-term, it's not going to work as well as he thinks it is. Especially not as there's a saboteur around which he knows about (and let slip his mind). Conversely the "Beacon gang" have something which isn't going to work in the short-term but could likely work out long-term if they can get over the current danger.
But the centerpoint of RWBY's issue isn't how Ruby's leadership is "blind emotion". It's how all the help is actually available to turn that impulse into something which can work... if anyone there had been willing to help. Again, I don't expect Ruby and her friends to have all the information they need to make a solid plan... that would be unrealistic, since they're all still very young and inexperienced. To bend a quote from somewhere else: "They don't even know what they need to know."
And the best part I have out of ending Volume 7 is thinking "both sides have a point here, but they're working against each other away from a solution instead of working together towards one".
But I'm betting the actual solution to come out of Volume 8 is going to rely on a lot of compromises and inability to pull anything more than a "we live to keep fighting" out of this. Like Penny said... it's gonna be Beacon all over again.
@@kereminde yeah, if they could reach an actual compromise, things would be much better. But if the ending showed anything, it's that they really didn't have a chance to try. There wasn't really that much time between Salem's message and her arriving. So sitting down to try and work something out simply wasn't feasible if by the time both sides are done laying down their sides, mantle is on fire and grimm are feasting on the citizens of Atlas.
You're entirely right that his plan is a short term victory, but in the face of a full invasion looking to murder everyone, ensuring that people survive is an immediate concern. What happens after can be worked out once they have a moment to breath.
The sabotuer was Watts, wasn't it? And Ironwood personally threw him into a cell, so i think it's pretty safe to say that as long as Salem doesn't have more forces in Atlas, he's out of commission for the time being. Unless I'm forgetting something?
Volume 8 is going to be crazy. Maybe they'll somehow end up on the same side again, saving Atlas and Mantle and handing Salem her most direct defeat yet. Or it could be a complete loss with Atlas being destroyed, Mantle burning, and Team RWBY forced to flee to Vacuo to escape her wrath.
@@PhantomNull13 The saboteur I actually meant was *Cinder*. Who also was responsible for Beacon's fall, so it's no small feat to completely forget about her - even leaving the same message in "the black queen".
The chorus can be read in two ways. Either as a hero who will risk his life to keep others safe, or as a tyrant who will do what he thinks is best for you whether you like it or not.
There's a thin line between those, and in some cases the only way to determine what side of it someone is on is perspective. No man believes himself to be evil.
Like the other reply said, it's a thin line
Ironwood crossed it
That second bit reminds me of the robot from rouge one. "YOU ARE BEING RESCUED. PLEASE DO NOT RESIST."
Ok
It can be a call out to how he sees himself, and how he knows he is seen. He is not an evil man, he is trying to do what HE thinks is best.
I absolutely freaked out when I heard “I would die” in the episode. Literally screamed out Caleb’s name and felt so proud of him. This full version shows of his vocals more. Amazing work from him as always, awesome song from Jeff, and great lyric video, Flynt! Thanks!
I did the same thing when I first hear the song in the episode^^ I was so excited and so proud to hear this wonderful voice of Caleb ^^ 💕
I suspected he would be making an appearance in Vol 7 after he uploaded a cover of Red Like Roses featuring Cassie le Williams (I still lost my shit when this started playing though, no denying that)
@@buddyb3165 I didn’t see it coming. Really thought Caleb had just reached out to her and got her on board cuz he was just plain awesome. Only after hearing “Hero” did I make the link and see...Like, “Oh.....OOOOOOOOH!” XD
I just watched the whole series and despite being a pretty big fan of Caleb for a really long time, knowing he did covers of some RWBY songs and such, I had ZERO idea he did an actual song in the show so getting to that made my jaw drop, I hear those insane guitars with the "I would DIE" and felt the hairs on the back of my neck
Ironwood was my favorite character this volume. He was so emotionally and motivationally complex. His VA and his facial expressions were just: mm yes. And his fight with Watts was one of the most visually spectacular this volume
ALSO CALEB HYLES IS ALWAYS A YES YES YES
I'm so glad he got to be on the soundtrack!!
Thanks for the video Flynt! It looks amazing as always!
Same!
Ironwood was so well done, of course so much of the fanbase had to side with the main cast against him...
@@tomsimpkins1211 fr. Even though both sides were not always in the right, Ironwood was actively trying to make things better and trying to plan things out for the long run. Team RWBY has fought and lived through the fall of Beacon, as well as other dangerous threats, which you think would have taught them things, but are still too naive. They suffer from the hero trope of wanting to save everyone, so that, and ESPECIALLY the writing (let's not get into that), is what's making the main cast less enjoyable and side characters like Ironwood stand out. But of course, pRoTaGoNisTs and ships will always win over logic and reason in this fandom, sadly
@@tomsimpkins1211 Is that true? I've seen a lot of people hate team RWBY and think they're stupid/naive for wanting to save Mantle and opposing Ironwood.
Tom Simpkins Eh, more power to the people who still side with him then.
RWBY has so little hope of actually being relevant in the upcoming battle against Salem compared to an entire army and academy of Huntsmen that I don’t really want to follow anyone but Ironwood, just to see how he fights this battle.
Didn't expect that broadway singing at the start, but holy shit it's fire!
You stole my face!
Give his face back!!!!
4 years later and you still kept the man’s face. How low society has fallen
Rest in Power to the greatest hero Remnant *has* ever, and *will* ever have.
I really hope we get more backstory on how Ironwood got to be this way. He didn't live through the Great War, so odds are he was raised by someone who did. And I can't help but feel like he's very inspired by the King of Vale (possibly Ozpin's prior incarnation), and the willingness he had to win by using the relics. I wonder if that means that Oz is looking back at a reflection of who he used to be...
It can be that, since se know Ironwood knows about Ozpin's reincarnations. But I thunk which most made him like how he is right now is the Fall of Beacon, which left him extremely traumatized and paranoic that his defenses will never be enough. He filled up himself with fear, and therefore actually became the main reason Grimm attack Atlas, while he just tries to run away.
Vale is a big part of his current trauma and paranoia. Whatever caused him to lose most of his body probably plays another part of his "sacrifice anything for victory" mentality.
I think the Fall of Beacon really affected him because of how completely Ozpin failed. He had a lot of faith in Oz, and really wasn't ready to take over as leader of the fight when Oz died. You can see that in how he reacts when he learns Oscar is the new Ozpin, and how shattered he looks when he's told Ozpin isn't speaking to anyone. He feels the burden of saving humanity has fallen to him (SOLELY him), and he begins to crack under that pressure, because he can't share it with anyone. He tries to implement the antithesis of Ozpin's plan (revealing the truth to the world rather than hiding it), but ends up in a similar position. His fatal flaw is not only his willingness to do anything to win the fight, but also his belief that, absent Ozpin, he and he alone can solve the problem. In contrast, Ruby has put up with a lot, but she shares that burden with her team, and that makes them collectively more resilient than Ironwood ever could be alone.
It could be something like Jax from Mortal Kombat he realise that a simple human can't last this war
He could’ve lived through the Faunus rights revolution. That happened after the Great War and the exact timeline hasn’t been given.
This feels very juxtaposed against “Sacrifice”, which has to be intentional.
"What if all the plans you made... were not worth the price you paid?" certainly sounds like it could be aimed at Ironwood.
The defiant "You can't have my life, I'm not your sacrifice" could also be seen as being directed at Ironwood, rather than Cinder/Salem, since he talks so much about sacrificing things for the greater good.
I actually think that Sacrifice is a song about Raven and how she know the secrets of Ozpin since we don't know who use the first question I just asume that was Raven but since she seems didn't know how the Vault work I asume that it was the previews maiden that use that question and knew she couldn't handle that war
@@michaelramon2411 ah but sacrifice also has the lyrics "Even with the lives you stole, still no closer to your goal" which sounds an awful lot like a criticism of Ozpin's constant reincarnation.
Sacrifice is great because of how many different interpretations you can take away from it.
@@Shadowlegendlover It becomes even worse when you realize it could possibly be foreshadowing for Atlas and Mantle being destroyed by the end of volume 8. Imagine Ironwood surviving the destruction, and realizing that if he put more effort into protecting Mantle, then perhaps it wouldn't have been destroyed. I wonder what Ironwood would do if CRWBY went this route.
I love how -- in the intro version of the chorus -- the "trust me" is practically spoken instead of sung. It has so much more impact and drives the tired yet fiercely determined mind of Ironwood home.
Ironwood is without a doubt the best written character in the series. His story is a tragedy. I hope it's not too late for him, but it's not looking good.
When he shoots Oscar at the end of the volume, you can see the brightness in his eyes dissapear, like when characters die.
He's dead inside, there's no salvation for him now
@@whateverguy9204 It certainly seems that way
There’s only two ways I see his story ending now. Dying at Salem’s hands broken or sacrificing himself in a blaze of glory to save everyone, knowing that he wasn’t perfect.
He matches the beats of a Greek Tragic Hero
@@blueshadowdx Personally, I'm thinking that he'll go out like Ahab trying to take out the Whale Grimm
The worst part about all of this is that Ironwood is not completely wrong. He goes to extreme yes... but well... "There are people in this world who only deal on extremes, and if you think you can beat them with anything less then extreme measures, then you are naive"
Unfortunately way to many who take power for these reasons are corrupted by the power and start doing evil things just like Ironwood ends up doing.
And his actions are a mix of due to the scale of the problem being something he cannot do alone and therefore large-scale control is strictly necessary, and the “heroes” of the show lying to his face and withholding critical information.
@midgetydeath Honestly? I don't blame Ruby. The situation was completely fucked and they had no idea who to trust. But I don't blame Ironwood either. Salem is the one I blame. And no, I don't blame Oz, at least nowhere near as much as I blame Salem.
@@joemaxwel1997 Yang should have trusted him, he watched her (apparently) butcher a fellow competitor on national television and gave her a hyper-advanced replacement arm with the deepest sympathy he could offer. He *literally* gave her the power to recover the spirit she'd lost, by trusting in her when not everyone did.
Blake... Probably shouldn't have trusted him. End of the day he's the top brass in *the* military force keeping her people under bootheel. Even if Ironwood employs Faunas himself, that doesn't change what he's done for the SDC in the past, and I doubt she'd be perfectly fine with letting him into her circle of trust without a *lot* of action.
Weiss, by contrast, *should* trust him implicitly. More than anyone else in RWBY she's *definitely* seen the lengths he's gone to fighting directly to keep things in order, defending her and her line as best he can, as well as *her* kingdom. She should be standing by his side from line one, just like her *sister* does, and at *least* try to work out a compromise.
And Ruby... Ruby should have trusted him too. She knows he was there at the Battle of Beacon. He stood there, without an army, without power, without a *shirt,* and still stood, fought, defended the people when they needed him to. For no personal gain, but the good of the many, he fought like a hero then, and directly acted to inspire those around him.
But nope, gotta just throw that all out the window and treat him like a paranoid despot who *isn't* facing down an immortal witch god with his bare/iron fists and the world's most fucked up "Semblance." Lets just act like it was an honest mistake or that RWBY were actually *right* not to trust him and that wasn't a self-fulfilling prophecy, good grief...
Strategically Ironwood’s plan was the best. It maximized Atlas’s ability to continue fighting. Basic military tactics say that if the situation goes as FUBAR as it was in Atlas the best thing to do is retreat with as many of your forces as possible and reengage from a better position. As ruthless as it sounds, the civilians of Mantle are nowhere near as useful for fighting Salem as the Atlas military, and a giant flying fortress is just too much of an asset to throw away
If you was on Gen. Ironwood position.
Having the biggest military power in the whole world, and knowing that EVIL itself was coming to get something that would kill many. You can't tell anyone close to you about that EVIL, you can't trust who is allied or not with Salem. And to make things even worst, later someone comes to you and say: "Salem can't be killed", shattering any hope you have.
Would you make better choices than him? I'm sure would not.
What a great character Ironwood is.
Ironwood was just a Man that had to make to many hard choices to keep everyone safe
That can fuckup the mind of anyone
I'd definitely not resort to nuking the people I'm supposed to be saving. That's insanity, if you want to generalize that you are batshit nuts too. If it got to that point, I'd cut my losses and distract said EVIL and have the rest of my forces take as many people and the object said EVIL wants to have away to safety ASAP.
Do what many are doing in Ukraine. Die standing.
Don't put an embargo attracting grim. Don't shoot escape craft saving a city you plan on abandoning anyways. Don't leave Robin alive. Those were his three biggest mistakes. You can certainly do better.
the best thing I could think of is putting a lock on the door to the room with the door of the vault
A fricking good and complex character. He truly acts like a military: Lose ethics to get victories. I love this moral ambiguity...
Until season 8 because if a character makes the audience think than they will realize that the rest are horribly written
For some reason, this resembles like Lionize, where the character feels he's the only one that can make the difference and isnt able to trust on anybodys help.
Btw, pretty nice work Flynt
That’s a very good point, I hadn’t thought of that before
Adam and Ironwood are both "false heroes" - characters who think they are heroic but are not. In Adam's case, he was ultimately selfish, viewing his heroism as a path to gratification, reward and power. ('"It's time I get what I deserve.") Ironwood is, strangely enough, too selfLESS. He is so concerned with the big picture, and with protecting people no matter the cost (especially to himself), that he completely sheds any system designed to hold him back, which means there is nothing to stop him from making terrible decisions but his own judgment. Both characters, however, have an all-consuming sense of their own righteousness that makes it impossible for them to recognize or correct their flaws.
@@michaelramon2411 Indeed! While Ironwood isn't trying to be Lionized in the way Adam was, he is in the fact that it is sorta his way or the highway type of attitude, and believing his way is the absolute right way regardless of consequences. Everyone is a Hero in their own story regardless if that's actually true or not.
It's true Team RWBY wasn't as honest with him as they should have been right off the bat and it's fine for him to be upset about that, but getting hung up on that during a crisis isn't the time or place. Did their choices cause him problems? For the most part no, it actually helped more often then not during most of the volume.
Point is Ironwood goes on and on about trust but it's him that doesn't trust others or is to willing to give them a chance if you pay attention. Look how much push back he gave Team RWBY when it came to most of their suggestions and possible solutions. And ironically they got good results by Team RWBY taking their own initiative in things more often then not, that Ironwood had to adapt to as a result. Does that mean Team RWBY is always correct on how they handle things or the choices they make and can do no wrong? No! Absolutely not. And Ironwood isn't a bad guy either, but he isn't willing to often take chances out of "Fear" and thus over all only majorly trust himself to know what's the right thing to do for everyone rather then hear out others/consider others ideas or opinons on the matter, and thus why he also values loyalty more then actual companionship.
Ironwood is afraid of losing control of things and the unknown, so there is a desire to always take charge of everything but you can't know everything or control everything, life doesn't work that way. And you do need to take unknown risks, and realize when a situation is out of your control and that sometimes you need help/support more then loyalty/obediency from others as different opinions and perceptives can find solutions maybe you can't see but they can because they think differently as a free thinking individual where someone who mearly follows orders and doesn't think for themselves can offer.
In short, neither Ironwood or Team RWBY are wrong in their ways but divided as Salem wants, and not coming to a compromise or understanding they will fall. The only way both I feel can achieve results close to what both desire at the very least is if they work together instead of against each other. And I feel Team RWBY was always holding out their hand in a sign of friendship and trust (despite with holding some stuff for a long while there) but Ironwood's behavior made them feel uncertain/uneasy about just doing so as well because they could see he wasn't a trusting individual/less of a team player then he puts himself off to be. Ironwood always being more closed off on his end, demanding loyalty over cooperation and thus is the type not to out faith in others though I do think in his own way he was kinda trying but not really all that much as he should have. That's why Ironwood out of the two though will fail the hardest, not because he doesn't have his own good ideas or intentions but he only trusts himself in the end/he seems almost afraid to trust others.
I mean look how he shot poor Oscar in the end. Like I get the fact he is upset, but literally trying to murder someone over it? The guy is very mentally and emotionally unstable/paranoid at this point to where he is dangerous in my opinion. Oscar wasn't threating him so there was no need to shot him, Ironwood has lost total self control at this point and he definitely isn't acting in anyone's self interest other then his own self righteous.
Edit:
Also "There is no sacrifice that I won't make" well I hate to say it but he isn't really personally sacrificing anything in the end. The people of Mantle who have sacrificed countless times being given the short end of the stick in Atlas are the ones being forced to sacrifice everything at the end of the volume while Ironwood flees. "I'll risk it all to keep you safe." Also sounds hypocritical under said context but yeah.. Sorry I understand why he's doing what he is tactically to a degree, but I got to point out the irony in those words there. 😅(I like Ironwood but to say he did nothing wrong/made no mistakes on his end I feel like is looking at him with rose colored glasses. As a character the guy isn't perfect, or always right, he is human like anyone else and can be a hypocrite and make bad calls. The problem is the guy refuses to forgive others for theirs or accept making his own(he overly obsesses over them as well when he does) which isn't a good thing. )
(Actually considering how much the people of Mantel is forced to sacrifice for the sake of Atlas and Ironwood's plans, I think their the real heroes. Like seriously the guy is so quick to forsake Mantle and it's people for the sake of winning a war, (he only helps protect it when it's safety jeopardizes Atlas and his plans as well) in that light it's kinda hard to say Ironwood is actually being heroic there more so then as cold and indifferent that he seems ok with being according to the song. 😅 Though I thought the point about being a hero was to care about others thus why you strive to try and save them, not just because it's your job to Ironwood. And sorry for the shade Ironwood fans but had to call him out on that.)
(Apologises for the long explanation/comment there. 😅)
I was about to comment how Ironwood and Adam are alike even though they're so different.
@@xKrispmasx It is worth noting that Blake and Yang, disobeying Ironwood and leaking information about the communications tower to Robyn actually solved one of Ironwood's biggest problems (the raids on his supply convoys). They understood what needed to be done to get the job done, and they did it. Exactly what Ironwood believes he does. The problem is, Ironwood views Team RWBY as assets rather than allies - he doesn't treat them as equals with autonomy and the ability to make decisions, but as more soldiers to follow HIS decisions. True trust is not just about sharing information and not keeping secrets; it is also about believing that if a person does do something behind your back, they did it with good intentions. That's really why Ironwood snaps - he won't accept that a secret kept from him made things better. In his (nearsighted, and somewhat hypocritical) view, RWBY could only have withheld the information for bad reasons.
I would say that Ironwood has made some personal sacrifices. He tore up his arm to defeat Watt. He's endured hits to his reputation and public standing (not the most important things, but still something) and ignored threats and insults. Most importantly, he's undergone an enormous amount of stress that is crushing him emotionally (as seen, for example, in his awkward hug with Qrow). Is that the same as the sacrifices of the Mantleans? Probably not, and Ironwood has volunteered to make sacrifices while Mantle has not. But I don't think his commitment should be questioned (or even necessarily his empathy), only his farsightedness.
I find there's a really interesting contrast between this song and "Lionize", the two "false hero" songs. Lionize is entirely Adam ranting about his enemies and how much everyone will love him for destroying them. There's almost no mention of the people he his allegedly fighting for outside of how much they will love him when he's done destroying everything. It's pretty easy to see that he's mostly deluding himself.
"Hero", by contrast, is all about the people Ironwood wants to protect, and how much he's willing to give up for them. He specifically mentions that he cares nothing about his reputation, and how he'll accept hate if that's the cost of saving the people. But it goes over some of the same beats as Lionize, most notably "I am might, I am power, I'm due process, I will smite..." which reminds me of Adam's "I have the strength to do what's needed...". Of particular note there is "I'm due process", which, yes, is a cute reference to his weapon name, but is also a horrifying line - Ironwood believes he IS the law. There is no check on him at all, and no one who can overrule him when he is wrong about something. Ironwood is willing to do anything to protect his people, but he has also convinced himself that he and he alone is right about EVERYTHING, and there is no contingency for if he is not. The people don't get a say in how they are protected, or what is done for them or sacrificed for them. They just have to trust him. And if they don't? He'll ignore them. Remove them if they get in his way. Because he is always right, and what he thinks should be done is always the best course of action for everyone. Ironwood thinks he is nobly sacrificing for the public good, but really he's just made himself a tyrant, if a well-meaning one, and that shows he's almost as delusional as Adam. (This is especially relevant as Volume 7 repeatedly demonstrates that Ironwood is actually cracking under the pressure of facing Salem on his own, and his judgment is slipping. There is nothing more dangerous than a determine man who is incapable of realizing when he is wrong.)
There's also the fact that, as Volume 7 demonstrates, being willing to sacrifice ANYTHING is not actually a good quality, but I think I've said enough.
Yes. This, EXACTLY. Thank you for putting it so well.
I don't know if he's singing about those he wants to protect or about those he don't want to fail. "My oath to you I won't forsake" in particular, seems directed to someone instead of everyone. Just to who did he make that promise? He never promised Remnant's safety, just Atlas and Mantle, and he'll willingly abandon Mantle if it means that Salem will be defeated, which makes it rather weird. So, I submit the theory that the song isn't about protecting the people but upholding his promise to Ozpin, as a guardian of the world.
to be fair rwby and ironwood are the same in that team rwby is 100% right about everything and that ironwood is crazy and wrong and must be stopped
Thats a great take on the matter because kinda it plays into to who he referenced after which is the "Tin Man" who is heartless, so sacrificing anything and everything to protect others is a heartless outlook but its not all bad when you look at how the odds are stacked against him
Yeah And Mariquit, I think that is definitely a decent interpretation, especially considering lines like “I would fly into the sun if that would keep *OUR* dream alive”. He’s clearly talking to Oz in that moment. But with the other lines about sheltering in his arms, (which would be kinda weird if directed at a millennias old warrior) make me think it’s a mix of both talking to Ozpin and the people of Atlas.
Everyone In the rwby fandom can agree. They know how to make character music
Caleb’s voice was such a great fit for this song, especially in finding Ironwoods emotion!!
Yup. For all that that others dehumanize him (and that he dehumanizes himself), Ironwood is one of the most emotionally driven characters in this series, for better and for worse. He can play it cool sometimes, especially when he needs to convince himself he's making a rational decision, but he's almost always on crisis mode.
"I am might
I am power
I'm due process
I will smite"
1) Ironwood is a paladin confirmed
2) this is the ultimate paladin song
3) Civil War Part 2: Electric Boogaloo is going to have a kickass soundtrack
Paladin with fear what a bullshit
Due process is the name of his gun
Nothing paints General Ironwood in such a true light as this song.
he was a man who would give it all, do ANYTHING to protect those he swore to protect.
but in that asperation, in his will to give it all, do anything, he crossed lines.
it was for everyone, but it cost so many.
he truly did care for them, that's why he was willing to be the monster for them, but some lines aren't worth crossing no matter what.
Even after Volume 8, Ironwood will always be my favorite character 🤧
A hero is nothing without it's villian.
Just like a villian is the hero within their own story.
I disagree. Being a hero isn't about fighting villains. It's about protecting people, helping them, giving them hope and courage. Fighting villains is often a part of that, but if a hero is nothing without someone to beat up, they're not a hero.
@@willieoelkers5568 I'm not sure if you meant this, but you just perfectly described one of the issues with James POV and why he's not the hero.
True. But, there's something that's been bothering me. If the villain gets defeated, what will happen to the hero in the end? A hero's main purpose is to defeat the villain. What will happen to the hero? Will he or she lose their main purpose in life? Their meaning of existence? And what will happen if they screw up? Won't everyone will condone them for the mistakes they made? They saved the world but they made one mistake. For example, collateral damage or some of the people they saved were injured in the fight. The public will condone them for not trying hard enough. It didn't matter if they saved their lives or saved the world. One mistake, boom. Everyone's pointing the finger. Also, what about the heroes that didn't originally wanted to be the hero? Those people didn't choose to be one. Instead, they were immediately given the job of hero due to people thrusting the burden onto them. For example, you were summoned into another world and already, you were tasked to defeat the demon king. You didn't want to do it. You just want to live a quiet life. But, you have no choice. You have no choice but to defeat the demon king. And that's not accounting for whether the demon king is truly evil or a victim of circumstances or fate. To me, becoming a hero or a villain is the greatest tragedy. Cause in the end, they will either be forgotten or condone by society due to their past mistakes, origin or anything at that matter. Of course, this is my personal opinion and if you don't agree with this, I understand. Just wanted to put in my two-cents. That's all.
@@brianbrush5107 Wasn't directly thinking of Ironwood at the time, but it's one of the reasons I tend to get angry at him/worry about him. He's too focused on the idea of some single tangible victory.
@@willieoelkers5568 This is my personal view again, if you don't agree with me, that's fine but to me, Ironwood is neither hero nor villain. He's a victim. He wanted to protect his people whatever it takes even at the cost of his humanity. Same with Ozpin. He did everything he could to make Salem nothing but a myth because, let's be honest. An immortal queen of monsters that has been causing humanity nothing but pain and death will definitely freak me out. It'll definitely cause a global panic. That's why he kept her existence a secret because he knew that humans can't handle it. The reason Mantle took it well because Robyn was there and she's a symbol. They love Robyn. If it was only Ironwood, they'll probably lose their minds. Not to mention that he didn't know that Salem's immortal. So, they all believed that Salem can be killed but she's not. Let's go back to Ozpin. In a sense, he's done nothing wrong and him being a little more distrusting is reasonable. He's been alive and trying to stop Salem for God knows how long. How many times he's been backstabbed. So, Ozpin's technically hasn't done anything wrong. He's been a 'hero' who's been defending humanity for decades now. But, when his secret got out, boom. Ozpin can't be trusted. He's a bad person. It's all his fault. Humans are like that. Team RWBY talked about not being like him and they pass the buck onto Oz but they still acted like him. One can argue that they kept it from Ironwood because if he knew early, he'll probably succumb to despair quickly. But, I digress. The same thing is happening to Ironwood. He's technically doing good and his reasons are just but because he made mistakes and has done some things wrong, he's labeled as a villain now. Humans are selfish. It's easy to put the blame on someone instead of stopping and thinking whether is this right or not. When something clashes with your ideals, you'll do anything to reject it and stay true to yours. That's what's happening in RWBY. Well, the infighting between Team RWBY and Ironwood. The ideals of sacrifice vs save everyone. In the end, no one wins. Everyone's contradicting each other.
A lot of people in this comment section caught the Due Process thing, but not many people caught the “Mettle I’ll deploy” line, which is a reference to his Semblance.
Speaking of Ironwood’s Semblance, it may just be the stupidest thing in RWBY, because ALL IT FUCKING DOES IS GIVE HIM DETERMINATION. It’s not even a Semblance at that point.
they needed a way to make him not stop the bs
Well, considering they made 2 semblances that gave both bad luck and good luck, something like Mettle isn't shocking to me.
His Semblance is a fucking mental illness
When you stop looking at Ironwood as "The guy opposing Team RWBY," he's a very complex and tragic character. He's just a man who was forced to stand against a god, and it's breaking him.
No he had a plan for the god, it was the snakes he let near him that were his downfall.
@@snowpegasi What plan? When he realized she was unkillable the only solution he could come up with was to abandon his plans and gtfo with the city. I'll leave any debate as to whether or not he was right aside, but that wasn't a plan, that was a kneejerk reaction.
@@ChaosDraguss His plan was to draw back from the frontlines to consolidate more forces in the way of a unified and informed Remnant, and to get the artifact away from Salem, it wasn't perfect but it would solve mantles problems as Salem was only after the artifacts and would have chased him away from Mantle, yeah things worked out fine in the end, but only through bad writing and people magically coming forth with ideas they should have mentioned to Ironwood way earlier when there was time to weigh the consequences of their actions instead of during an emergency where you can't afford to second guess your plans and just have to move on with what you have prepared in advance.
@@snowpegasi You're basically making shit up to paint him as being more level headed than he was. Rewatch the end of volume 7; he started cracking with paranoia when he realized Cinder had been inside. He also acknowledged that he was leaving mantle to die, so none of this "solve mantle's problems" bs. He didn't give RWBY even a moment to try and come up with an alternative plan, his reaction was "this is what is going to happen, and I know you're gonna get in my way so I'm arresting you." He didn't even say anything about the rest of the plan you made up in your head, his only "plan" at this point was to get the artifacts away from Salem at all costs.
@@pyro4755 That's not what he's talking about. Ironwood's plan before he snapped was solid, no one argues against that. But that's not what this guy is talking about, see his reply about Ironwood's plan to "draw back from the frontlines."
it feels like hes talking to Atlas itself not the people and that makes the lyrics much darker on second glance
Someone gets it!
@SuperMarioWilliam what, did he kick a puppy in front of you or something? He's bad, but not THAT bad
@SuperMarioWilliam Oscar's the puppy
@SuperMarioWilliam Huh? Who did he brainwash? Ironwood has been incredibly honestly to his friends and allies (The same can't be said for RWBY) he never manipulated anyone. Anyone who trusts and believes him have made that decision on their own. He hasn't tricked anyone into trusting him.
@SuperMarioWilliam That's just him though. If you think Ironwood wasn't honest in volume 7 you weren't paying attention. The man is no liar.
Listening to the lyrics make Ironwood's fall so much more tragic. Stuff like 'Hope's not gone, just hold on' and 'my oath to you I won't forsake' show that he's deadly serious about being a protector. He wasn't taking power or doing terrible things for its own sake, but because he's convinced that he has to. That if he didn't do everything in his power and failed, then that would be all on him. If Team RWBY had been willing to trust him and not act like they know better, things might not have gotten so extreme.
During his "trial" once it was revealed what Jacques did, the other council members including Robyn mentioned that ironwood was never after the power, but the means to protect Atlas (Mantle) and the rest of the world. Only when things started to fall apart did he get desperate and try to take full control, removing everyone who got in his way.
I don't see this as him "turning evil". He just broke under the pressure of trying to stop Salem. This just goes to show how powerful Salem is even when she isn't directly influencing the situation.
I don’t think either Ironwood or RWBY were objectively wrong when it came to the choices they made here, which is what makes the whole thing a tragedy. It’s not a clear-cut situation at all.
@@CT22222 Yep. Salem’s dangerous because she creates situations where there’s no right or easy solution, and watch her enemies fight over what they consider the best option.
@@CT22222 Agreed. Their objectives were different, and Ironwood went a little crazy at the end, but up until that point, he just tried to stop salem from destroying the world. He had his sights set on the bigger picture, not just one city. It's a morally gray area, but I kinda agree with him on a lot of things. I think there should've been much more communication between RWBY and Ironwood, though. It might have turned out different if they had RWBY's plan as plan A and Ironwood's plan as plan B, incase RWBY failed.
@@everettbernsen46Sorry but what plan? Ruby and her dumbass team at no point offered an alternative. They just paid lipservice to the idea, never actually putting forward anything useful beyond killing some grimm. All their "plan" amounted to was "deal with salem without destroying her because impossible" (how?) and "save people" (cant save everyone all the time). They actively lied to Ironwood and refused to trust him when not only was his plan reasonable and quite moral with the available information, but also actually may have united humanity, like the gods wanted. Literally the only debatable action of his was shooting Oscar at the end of volume 7. Afterwards they steer hard into making him stupid to overcompensate for accidentally writing a smart and reasonable character.
The “take my hand”s have the same energy as: you’re being rescued, please do not resist
Caleb’s semblance is making everything he appears in a masterpiece.
I really love this song and Ironwood it really sells the idea that Ironwood really is trying his best to save his people. He for all his faults is entirely selfless. He doesn’t care that he might be hated if that saves a few more lives.
You put this man In a situation where if he sacrifices himself he will save countless people he will do that without hesitation. He has the potential to be the greatest hero. But he was ill suited to this war and circumstances drove him away from the correct path.
It’s a modern tragedy of a man whom so desperately wants to save people and in the end lost sight of the persons he was so desperate to serve.
Honestly I think Ironwood made the right move. If he shot Atlas up he’d keep two very important relics from Salem, now Salem is poised to get all the relics. From the get go RWBY are seen to be unnecessarily distrusting of ironwood and lie to him from the start. After this they continue to lie to him dispite Ironwood clearly trusting them and being glad they’re there, it’s only after RWBY’s deceit comes to light where he starts to go off the rails. Throughout the series he is seen to be more selfless and human than characters like Weiss for example who, once fully believing ironwood can’t be trusted, gives him more power by getting rid of her father, one of his few sources of opposition. The Schnee patriarch is a prick don’t get me wrong but Weiss is clearly shown to be unable to see past herself. Then comes the idealism. RWBY refuse to comprise when it comes to lives which is commendable but rather than abandon mantle to save the rest of remnant they take their chances with a being that they flat out know is unstoppable. That I believe is the line where idealism becomes stupidity, risking two relics and a maiden on bad odds would be foolish enough but they know that they can’t beat Salem and still hand her those vital pieces on their little chess board.
what are you on about? he was doing the objectively best possible thing in the situation. team rwby were the ones to ruin quite literally everything, even ren points out how they are not ready to even be huntsmen, let alone make the decisions that ironwood is making. if rwby never went to atlas then ironwood would have saved both the city of atlas and the rest of the planet at the cost of one city (who were free to evacuate on their own before rwby made ironwood go totally off the rails for no reason).
@@comyuse9103 he was right up until he lost it about RWBY telling the councilwoman. And they were right to tell her and bring her on board. He was *This* close but he allowed his paranoia to get the better of him.
Hell all he had to do was prioritize the staff and winter maiden over RWBY and secure them both before he siced his team on them and humanity would have won regardless.
Rwby were complete fuck ups but Ironwood’s flaw was what pushed things sideways.
@@claytondavis6835 they were completely wrong to tell anyone else. ironwood and salem were fighting as shadow war with each other, literally every single person in the city should have been considered a potential enemy and kept in the dark unless proven otherwise.
i'll admit he should have acted much faster with the staff, but that is about the only mistake he made.
@@comyuse9103 considering she was acting against Salem’s agents? Probably could have been trusted especially as she was the one running against The candidate Salem was backing.
His response should have been anger sure but going from that to “let’s kill them and Ozpin’s reincarnation and prioritize this over the theart to the maiden and artifact” is the issue. RWBY were idiots but they are well meaning idiots whom are the only people he can trust outside of his most inner circle to be anti-Salem.
Kick them off Atlas first chance you get? Sure that’s understandable. But killing them and ignoring the fact you have hostiles going after your VIP and the thing keeping your city in the air? That is stupid.
If he had at least tolerated their existence for another 30 minutes he would have Cinder and Neo buried under 3 teams worth of hunters. Winter as the winter maiden and everything under control even if he decides to off them after that.
He just needed to hold off for a short while.
If vol 8 is what they did to ironwood, I want to see them make team RWBYJN-R put in situations where each individual has to deal with an equal amount of trials testing their character at its limits.
Ironwood: Take my hand!
Watts: Okay.
too soon. it's still too soon.
Take my hand
I'm here to protect you
Nothing will stop me
Understand
There's no sacrifice that I won't make
I'll risk it all to keep you safe
Trust me to be strong
I'll be your hero, just hold on
I would die
Without regret, I'd offer up my life
With zero reservations I would fly
Into the sun, if that would keep our dream alive
Deliver you from harm
Shelter in my arms
The fear will surely fade
Know right now the plan I made will guide us home
We'll survive this storm
I will fight
For you no matter how I am despised
Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might
I am power, I'm due process, I will smite
Our enemies destroy
Mettle I'll deploy
No chance that I won't take
My oath to you, I won't forsake
Hope's not gone, just hold on
Take my hand
I'm here to protect you
Nothing will stop me
Understand
There's no sacrifice that I won't make
I'll risk it all to keep you safe
Trust me to be strong
I'll be your hero, just hold on
What if it's true as they say
That I don't have a heart
That I'm more a machine than a man?
What would that change
Would it matter at all?
I've made my plan
Hearts and minds may not agree
Emotions topple strategy
You can't believe in honesty
That your children can win a war
Take my hand
I'm here to protect you
Nothing will stop me
Understand
There's no sacrifice that I won't make
I'll risk it all to keep you safe
Trust me to be strong
I'll be your hero, just hold on
Atlas true and only protector, too noble in volume 7 he was the victim of character assassination on vol 8, he deserved better, Rest in peace Tin WoodMan.
I remember when I first heard this song in the show and looked at the lyrics I thought it sounded like a father protecting his kid. And came up with the theory (or well, headcannon) that Ironwood actually had a kid but they died somehow. Even though the full song kinda debunks that I still like to think of that.
Especially the line “You can’t believe in honesty that your children can win a war.”
Like his kid once fought Salem or died trying to protect someone.
I also think Ironwood would be a pretty good dad.
HUGE SPOILER:
(do not click unless you have finished watching Volume 8)
Miles (one of the main writers) confirmed that James Ironwood died in the finale of Volume 8. Rip potential storylines and the potential fight with Qrow. ;( very very sad news. The loss of Ironwood is in my opinion a larger loss than Penny.
How??? All we saw was cinder saying "and that's checkmate" and flying off?
I don't count a random cameo as 'confirmation' if it isnt confirmed in the actual show or on a panel
Didn't they confirm first death of penny too? In vol.3
OH THIS SOME BULLSH- you know what, I won't stand for this.
*Writer / Artist mode activated*
@@PikablueRay Penny was a robot even though she did the possibility was still there to bring her back because of that.
Ironwood, the hero we don't deserve but the one we need
When I got to this song on the soundtrack I was like “I swear to god they better utilise Caleb’s vocal range on this damn song”... *I wasn’t disappointed*
Volume 7 left a bitter taste in my mouth. Volume 6 team rwby and co give Oz flack for keeping secrets that'd be useful for their predicament but they become hypocrites in volume 7 by doing exactly what they criticized Oz for. Hell most of the problems could've been solved if they actually took the time to explain why Ironwood's plan suck instead of leaving him in the dark like they criticized Ozpin did to them.
I'm hella late to this comment because I just started watching the show again, but that's kind of the point.
Not to sound like I'm belittling your criticism or anything - it is annoying, but it was clearly written with that intent. It shows the main characters aren't infallible. They even address that Ozpin made the same mistakes, and in the end they're proven wrong that the ends don't justify the means. They gave Ozpin character growth without him even being present for it, because by the time he returns, now they understand him on a deeper level, having done the same fuckup for reasons they thought were just.
I dunno, maybe it's my smooth lizard brain, but I think that was great writing.
@@AWACS_SnowblindOzpin made no mistake in refusing to inform the CHIILDREN of his secret, he had every right and reason to do so.
Ironwood on the other hand did everything right with the information at hand. I cannot stress this enough, the man has never done anything wrong up to that point. In fact, he's only ever helped and got no thanks for it.
Ruby's retarded "argument" boiled down to "it aint right" while presenting no alternatives, literal child behaviour. She then witholds CRUCIAL information from him all while reaping the benefits of the TRUST Ironwood placed in them.
Point is, where Ozpin had some rationale behind his decision, the dumb kids just acted on their fefees and a good man and his whole nation paid for it.
@@AWACS_Snowblind " It shows the main characters aren't infallible."
Yet the team faces no real consequences or flack and has alot of plot relevant people even a god saying how correct they are and none of them actually have any real time introspection of the F up the caused
Got to see Caleb perform this live just last month, its a memory I wont soon forget
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
That's probably one of the most over-used quotes these days, but it fits.
Overused but still alive to this day
I mean he's not though honestly compared to the main cast he's the only one with a plan to save as many lifes as he can he's the only really noble one here and before anyone brings up "He shot Oscar" No he shot Ozpin Oscar is going to die anyway consumed by the ageless monster that is Ozpin.
@@Cringekeen That's what I said yeah.
@@viraltang his plan when he thinks Salem can be killed is basically take over the world. pull the military back to Atlas, tell everyone that she will kill everyone let the world panic causing Grimm attacks leaving the rest of Remnant to ruin, then sent the military to "pick up the pieces and help rebuild the kingdoms" aka install his people as administrators of the rest of the world with no force that can stop him. and his plan when he learns she can't is to leave the straight up abandon the world and take Atlas into low orbit with him as dictator
@@viraltang don't you mean ozma?
Ironwood is so misunderstood. You just have to listen to this song and see what he had to do while Team RNJR was traveling to understand him. He's fricking DONE. Months of stress, fighting, planing, keeping secrets and a deadly dosis of Jacques Schnee killed his human heart, his empathy and somehow his mind. He's just following his plan to protect the people because this IS the only thing he can even think about without completely melting down... It's totally wrong what he did, but at this moment he was afraid and lost his trust in Team RWBY/JNPR and Qrow... You remember when they said "He looks tired" in EP 1 of V7? They where god damn right. He literally is the Hero who sacrificed everything. They couldn't have done a better job with this song.
Press F to pay respects
@@dontshareyournameonline7587 F
F
F
F
The fact this song was used before Ironwood turned heel was genius. It's like that old saying goes. "You either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain...."
Except he's far from being the villain. An antagonist, maybe, but one that people can rightly side with due to Team RWBY's hypocrisy and wishy-washy attitude.
@@YormanGina Exactly. Everyone is deeply in love with the protagonists-understandable-but then overlook how hypocritical and selfish they are being. Ironwood has been willing to be the hated one for everyones sake.
Its the other way around in dragonball
@@morganr9825 even if he didn’t join Salem he might as well as handed most of mantle to her given how helpless they are now.
Once vol.9 come, the whole world is fuck once they learn Salem destroyed Atlas and Team Rwby are going to blame themselves.
What a contrast from Salem's refrain that the "hearts of man are easily swayed."
And yet, he reacted exactly how she wanted him to when she announced her arrival.
It's funny... in insisting he won't be "another Lionheart" he threw himself to the other extreme and made himself an enemy all the same.
Its a further display of it, he did exactly as both Salem and Cinder wanted
Hook line sinker
Today I learned that this song is much MUCH more meaningful than it seems on the surface. The lyrics go
"I will fight
For you no matter how I am despised
Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might
I am power, I'm due process, I will smite
Our enemies destroy
Mettle I'll deploy"
Mettle is the name of Ironwood's semblance. I didnt know this until today but the way it works is that Mettle is basically tunnel vision. Mettle is a passive semblance, like Qrow's Bad Luck, and it gives Ironwood a constant emotional buff in so far as he will not waver in focus or resolve, to the point of extreme tunnel vision. When James says "I will fight" he means it, to the death. "For you no matter how I am despised" He's saying that no matter how bad it gets he wont give up. "Portrayed as cruel and heartless, I am might." He's willing to be the villain for the sake of the greater good and he has the strength to back it up. "I am power, I am due process, I will smite" He is the Judge, the Jury and the executioner (and its a double entendre) "Our enemies destroy" We are in danger "Mettle I'll deploy" My semblance will win this war. James isnt a madman turning villain, he's a fallen paladin (Remember when he introduced the Atlesian Paladins in...seaason 2 I think?) He's a good person with greatness in him but due to the monumental circumstances his own semblance is pushing him more and more into being a cold, heartless, metal warlord....almost like a Tin Man.
Bonus points, remember when Ozpin said he'd seen good friends and allies turn towards darkness and betray him because of Salem? We thought he meant the Cowardly Lion.....but it turns out it was James Ironwood we had to worry about the entire time.
pretty sure v8 only happened because people liked him more than rwby and the writers forgot the one thing that made him great from earlier volumes and that would be his empathy, every disagreement he had with ozpin was based on saving lives or being worried about sending children out to fight his wars, he made the Knight robots to keep actual people off the battle field, he gave all the kids at the fall of Beacon the option to save themselves with no judgement, he gave a stranger an arm because he felt responsable, he defended Weiss at the cost of his own image with the upper crust of atlas, his downfall was just the writing team not knowing their own characters well enough.
V8 was probably written by the time V7 aired, so it's unlikely that the response to Ironwood drove the writing in V8.
@@snowpegasi i don't agree it is a great story of rise power downfall and regret.
Ironwood is a awesome character and even his downfall is perfectly written in my opinion. A man can only take so much before he breaks inside and as seen in v7 and v8 it was to much for him. Great character writing.
As they say either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
@Vice- Virgo uhh I think everyone know that by know.
The best fight song of v7 caleb did awesome singing this song
Yes
Love the lyrics in this song. Really cements Ironwood's ideal of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
Really, the only thing Ironwood did wrong was threatening to blow up Mantle, and even then, I get why he did it.
Even as worst, general Ironwood made more sense to me than all of team RWBY & Co.
Their basic mentality is “the power of friendship will unite the world”: but it didn’t. Now they’re who-knows-where, with no known means of escape. Nice job girls, you really showed the big bad general who is the boss.
Now Salem has two relics, not just one, an entire kingdom was wiped off the map, no need for Grimm & all the people you just saved; are now stuck in the middle of a giant grim incursion. Well done, bravo.
not to mention Penny's f$cking dead!
I hope you're proud of yourself, Ruby!
You know what, your both right ! It is Ruby’s fault ! Even after admitting it and supposedly vowing to do better, she was still being childish ! And not in a good way like she used to ! If you want to really blame someone for Penny’s death, don’t blame poor Jaune, blame her !!
@@dylananthonyriley254 she could have at least taken responsibility for the things she did wrong...it won't bring anyone back, but at least it would she that she's matured at least a little bit...
The people they plopped in Vacuo are also used to cold environments, they just put them all in a desert.
@@thomasraines1396 I hadn't even considered that.
Yo this songs brings so many emotions, from Ironwood trying to stand strong for Atlas for his people, to facing true fear and trying to what seemed him running away and thinking those at the top will survive. This song slaps my emotions so hard! I love it!💘
A good theme song can express ideas about a character, thus strengthening how their story is told.
A GREAT theme song can tell a character's entire story all on its own.
I find it ironic that, given the name of his Kingdom, Ironwood made the mistake of taking upon himself the burden of Atlas, to hold up the sky, to hold up the world by himself. He truly thought that he could do it, that he and those he trusted could stand against an immortal being and the nightmares she had spawned and stop her once and for all, to save everyone, not just Atlas but all of Remnant from Salem and her plans, only to collapse under a weight that no one person could ever hope to bare. After all the Atlas who held up the sky was a Titan, and Ironwood is but a man, no matter how much he may try and be something else he is bound by the laws of humanity and no human can hope to hold up the world by themselves. In the end, the sky came down upon him and crushed him, it shattered him into a thousand-thousand pieces and broke him, the realization of the impossibility of his self-appointed task driving him to become the very thing he sought to save his people from, a monster, after all "You either die the hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain".
Thank you so much for this.
Ironwood is one of my favorite characters and I'm so glad we finally get a deeper look inside in song form. My favorite track off the new album
Just found out the line "do you think your children can win a war" was something Ironwood himself said on Vol. 2, Ch. 2.
I love the idea that the three headmasters, besides Ozpin, are inverted versions of the characters in 'The Wizard of Oz'.
Lionheart: The lion who lost his courage.
Ironwood: The robot that emptied his heart.
Theodore: The scarecrow who lost his mind.
Qrow is the scarecrow it's implied Theodore is Dorothy
Pam Griffin I think the losing his mind thing can also apply to Qrow. He DID kill his best friend.😂
@@JM-vr1br From what I gather, Theodore's notorious for being quirky and changing his mind constantly. I could see that somehow spiraling into, shall we say, insanity.
@@magic8ball134 That... is a very good point. Didn't catch the name hint.
Raven stuck me as the Dorothy
Best character in RWBY right now. Love this man so much! RWBY has needed a character with moral complexity for a long time and Ironwood did it perfectly. The kind of complexity where a portion of the audience can plausibly go "He's doing the right thing" And this song is AWESOME!
Ironwood has quickly become one of my new favorite characters.
Like the overbearing parent having the best interest in mind for the child they are trying to protect; Ironwood is doing his best with the situation he was given though going about it in the wrong way. How can you expect the child to protect themselves when we all kick the bucket if you don't allow the child to make the mistakes. Ironwood's character in the volume was fantastic and I won't deny that he had the best interests of the people under him in mind when he did what he did. Imagine being your countries best defense against a danger that they have no idea against and the fear that would cause to form in most individuals. By saying Team RWBY is honestly not their best chance at stopping the invasion of Grimm with Ruby's silver eye power (though we don't know how often she can use this power and how much of a toll it takes upon her body.) An ability that can basically oneshot any Grimm is paramount to success against Salem. Ironwood doesn't do much to elicit trust from those who don't follow him to a tee. Team RWBY actively are on the fence in the Volume on telling him that Salem is immortal and learning that they "betrayed" him doesn't help either in Team RWBY's favor. Can you save everyone in a situation like RWBY's ideology is; no absolutely not and the naivety of Team RWBY is one their biggest flaw to Ironwood. Ironwood's flaw is that no sacrifice that he isn't willing to take. Ironwood is treating the lives that he is supposed to protect like pawns and we see is downfall into a antihero at best and a villain at worst because of it.
I agree with most of what you said. My only disagreement is about team RWBY and JNR believing that they can save everybody. I saw the actions they took as knowingly taking the higher risk of battling Salem as their moral position on handling peoples lives. Ironwood tries to take the acion with the lover number of people saved but a higher succes rate. Team RWBY wants to take the route with the lower success-rate but the higher number of potentialy saved lives. Team RWBY and company are no longer naive enough to believe they can save all people. Rens near mental breakdown at the end is testament to that.
@@justaredstring7517 so what you're saying is, they KNOW they can't save everyone, but they still want to try to save as many people as possible
@@justaredstring7517 I am in favor of team RWBY and JNR that's mostly because theyre the main characters and their choices will likely be the correct ones(because this is a story) That said I think Ironwood's choices and actions are understandable(cept trying to kill oscar, that was a bit much).
Everyone's choices, actions and morality is a matter of perspective. For example, Team RWBY and JNR's desire to save everyone is commendable and I honestly want them to succeed but from Ironwood's perspective, they're far too much a wildcard and most importantly they follow their hearts over their head. They withheld vital information from him(for logical reasons) and betrayed him by informing Robyn about his plan. It worked out because Robyn as Team RWBY suspected wanted the truth and worked with them but that was a direct betrayal of trust. If they'll do it once what's stopping them from doing it twice? Thrice? What happens if they go rogue again and trust the wrong person?
I also agree with your comparison of ironwood taking the chance of higher success rate over team RWBY lower one. That said I don't think they have the experience, ability or power to take on Salem. Just because something is harder to do doesn't mean you can accomplish it with enough willpower, faith and emotion. I'm sure that they will eventually overcome these limitations but I hope that there are many more sacrifices before they do. Afterall neither side is truly 'wrong' they just have vastly different views and at the core of it all both Ironwood and RWBY want as many people as possible to be safe. Team RWBY wants a 'perfect victory' while Ironwood wants a victory.
From what I can understand RWBY's hesitance to reveal what they learned is tied to both Lionheart being a Traitor, and Ozpin himself not telling them the whole story
In this case it's the overbearing parent vs A literal army of nightmare creatures, and he has the choice of saving his immediate family, or risking everything in a fruitless endeavor to save his more distant relatives.
The best song for the best RWBY character.
Can't help but respect ironwood for his iron will (keke, get it?) Although he definitely could of done better to achieve his goals, he wasn't exactly in the wrong. This song also pretty much captures him perfectly, so nice job!
I think about it this way, even though ironwoods plan is bad, he is a war general. He not only wants to win the battle, but the war as well, and sacrificing lives may have to be a reality for that to come to fruition. He played it calm when he found out what team RWBY did and not telling him about Salem, it was a justified reaction. Also, this man who doesn’t know who he can trust, or if he can trust anyone anymore, he put his trust in the few people that he could, and those people betrayed him yet again, first Lionheart, now team RWBY. The whole Oscar thing, in all honesty was justified, as he was about to hear the same spiel from another teenager who thinks they got this whole thing figured out and how his plan was wrong, and would not work (even if it wasn’t a good plan) I understand that he is tired of being questioned and lectured by teenagers who think they know more about this than him, so I think that he does deserve the hero song, because he knows when to make the tough decisions, and when to say that enough is e-fucking-nough
Not to mention he knew about Salem loonnnggg before RWBY did. Oz surely must have told him SOME stuff about her, even if he did hide mountains worth of secrets. He, in reality, would be ANYONE’s best bet against Salem because unlike Oscar, whom all he really has is Oz in his head, Ironwood has the experience needed to be able to actually fight Salem. Not her specifically, but her bigger, badder guys like Watts.
He’s trying to do everything he can, and thats the worst part.
Connor McClure Those teenagers are the only reason mantle didn’t get destroyed so far, working with them was the only time he was actually stopping Salem’s minions plans and it’s him not listening sooner that caused this mess
@@jadenramos4030 Yea and those teenagers also want to try and fight a losing battle and risk losing everything because of morals
@@jadenramos4030 is this a joke ?...... Because it sounds like one.
@@agenttex5973 it's like nobody learn anything from shiro vs archer Or reading human history.
I don’t see enough people talking about Caleb Hyles???? He’s covered Rwby songs before and now he’s on the flipping soundtrack!
Yes this is so cool !
*SPOILER WARNING*
Following Ironwood's death, listening to this song now has more of a impact to me listening to it, just gives me more respect and wants me to bang my head to this song even more
@Bionicle 2007 They made them look stupid.
Ironwood is still a Hero. But only in the Classical Greco-Roman understanding of the term 'Hero'. For them, the term 'Hero' combined attributes of Christian-moral based Heroes and Villains both and the basic description of 'Hero' was Olivander's Harry Potter quote:
"But I think it is clear that we can expect great things from you. After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things. Terrible! Yes. But great."
Which brings me to the next point. All Classical Heroes will eventually enter their downfall slope where their failure can only be atoned by their tragic and, most of the time, meaningless death and it follows a simple thematic plan:
-Ignorance (thanks to the Deus Ex Machina of Ozpin not telling him need to know details earlier)
-Hysteria (when learning of Salem from Ozma's tidbits)
-Paranoia (when learning of her allies and their capabilities from Ozma's tidbits)
-Circumstances (the world post-Fall of Beacon)
-Relentless (his post-Beacon actions to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING he knew to do)
-Insomnia (he hasn't slept in over a year...literally)
-Haste (Ironwood's fucked up decisions during Team RWBY stay, all done for the Greater Good and At Any Cost because he didn't know better)
-Withershins (meaning 'in a direction contrary to the sun's course, considered as unlucky; anticlockwise', Ironwood turning away from Ruby and the Simple Soul, ordering the arrest of Team RWBY)
-And, finally, Hamartia. (Which means 'to err' or better yet, 'to miss the mark' *Pyrrha×Cinder flashback*. Where the inherent tragic flaw of Ironwood, arrogance, overpowers all his other virtues thanks to all the above said, what qualifies as the error or flaw can include an error resulting from ignorance, an error of judgment, a flaw in character, or wrongdoing. Ironwood had all of that. But the point of James' irreversible tragic fall is him shooting Oscar Pine who still was mostly the little kid and not Ozma)
Sorry man, but the "simple soul" is not the simple soul that started out. I would never consider supporting Team RWBY anymore. Its quite clear that their arrogance yet delusions of morality to be a better embodiment of the writers of RWBY than that of functioning heroes.
@@OneManCast How about that's just your opinion and no one has to listen to you. For that matter, no one asked your opinion.
@@NoahofWill nine people disagree with you.
and even if they did not, he still has the right to express it.
furthermore, it is not an opinion-it's an objective FACT.
Dude, I’m so happy for Caleb to actually be part of the OST!!! He’s amazing!!!
James the most legendary of the headmaster
Yeah...Ironwood should had gone out as a hero. Even just for the last instant ,he should had a last stand as hero.
His willingness to sacrifice anything for the sake of all he holds dear-Atlas, humanity, Remnant-is James Ironwood’s greatest strength and his greatest weakness both at once.
I feel like the lyric “I would fly into the sun” might be a reference to Icarus.
Indeed that seems to be the intention. And since Ironwood is planning to take Atlas out into space, there would be no telling what would happen.
They can't be certain about how safe they'll up there sinse no one on Remnant has gotten to space. I feel he's making a huge risk that wouldn't give back as much as he hopes to.
I feel like Ironwood is going to put everyone in the city below atlas and use the floating city to take the wale into the sun. Sacrificing himself
@@thepokeflynn5760 I think he's going to drop Atlas on the whale, reuniting Mantle and Atlas on the ground. And killing the whale lol
That makes me thing that ironeood will vs mercury in one point
I love this character, but i hate what they did with him, that excuse of it happening because of his semblance is stupid. apparently "mettle" is a passive semblance that is always active and constantly effects his decisions , but with no indication of when it's taking effect and when it isn't, it sounds more like a convenient excuse for him to suddenly go super villain and start shooting innocent people, and then want to blow up his own city. that's doubly so when you realize it was never mentioned in the show at any point whatsoever, and even the writers can't agree on when it was active. One says that when ironwood pulls his arm out of watts hard light shield, it was mettle that made him do so, while another says that no, his aura was gone, so mettle couldn't have been active. not to mention there's never been a "passive" semblance that's just always on. they have always needed to be consciously used, then again they bounce back and forth between how aura works too sometimes it's passive, other times characters forget to turn it on.
the lack of clarity and consistency aside, having a mind altering semblance active at all times brings up many questions about his agency and decision making, how much of ironwood was actually ironwood? if his aura is depleted would he be free from the mind controlling effects of his own ability? which that alone takes away from his downward spiral into doing bad for the greater good, because it's just the semblance making him do that. or not, since there's no way to know if it was always in effect, never took effect, or flickered on and off.
It sounds like a convenient excuse because that’s exactly what it is.
Mettle was the excuse for the poor writting this season, It was completely possible to make Ironwood the antagonist without going all out moustache twirling villain like they did. All it would take would be to keep making things going wrong and he needing to escalate little by little until by the end he'd have become the monster that they turned him into instantly
Im not disagreeing with you
But qrow's semblane is another passive one. His bad luck is always active
i mean it was definitely made up on the spot considering they didnt even tell ironwoods va about it so he could act differently while really using it
Yeah, I hate that they passed everything off as "its his semblance so we don't have to explain it", especially when he was ALREADY PERFECTLY SET UP TO BE A COMPLICATED VILLAIN. Everything about villain Ironwood (at least in theory) is in line with his previous characterization. He believes that he knows best, that only Atlas (an extension of him) can save everyone else, that he and he alone can be trusted to fix things and that everyone else just needs to fall in line for their own sake. It's why he's a hero under Ozpin's guidance and a villain without it- his sometimes overbearing but goodnatured attempts to protect his loved ones and the world, combined with his paranoia and fear, result in the Atlas and Mantle we see, and all of his actions honestly make sense looking at them from his point of view.
But no, it's just semblance bullshit. Fuck the writing in this show
It makes me sad that Ironwood gets so much hate when he's possibly the emotionally and mentally strongest characters in the show. The man cares more about protecting as many people as he can than he cares about himself. But yet people will call him a villain and say team RWBY are the heroes as they're seen abandoning a kingdom to die.
I've tended to use 'protagonist' and 'antagonist' in most cases. (Except for Salem's group, that's some card-carrying villains right there.) Between the start of things and now, we've moved into a situation where the world isn't painted in black and white, it's much more complicated than it looked at the start.
The sad thing is, much like the Fall of Beacon, there's not really any good choices here. There's only "bad and less-bad".
@@kereminde that's my point. Ironwood knows the situation he's in and is making a difficult choice and being logical. But so many people hate him for it and side with team RWBY who's only argument as things are falling apart is basically "the power if friendship will save us all"
@@ShawneeLad117 I don't hate him for it. I understand his reasoning, and I sympathize. But he's wrong with thinking it's going to work out. Salem does not need to take Atlas, she simply needs it 'out of play'.
Me? I don't side with either of these two groups. Or Salem's. I'm with the people waiting for Arnold to lose his shit when the new Volume starts, and getting popcorn ready.
@@kereminde Arnold always manages to hype up every detail of RWBY.
@@BIackFrieza And RvB. And when he was playing Persona....
“I am not going to end up like Lionheart”
Volume 8:Well Ironwood ya did
The thing I love about this song is that you’re either hearing the desperate plea of a hero who wants to save someone, anyone, after failing previously, or you’re hearing the justifications of a tyrant who believes they know best
3:15 "I'm hoping they'll never have to."
I read this comment at the exact time that line hit O.o
Well Oz it seems that you were wrong and they also fucked up royally.
I think this might be my favorite rwby song
Why did they butcher such a fantastic character ;-;
At least this song and your edit of it is great especially if I don't think about how his semblance ruins his moment vs Watts
This song hits home more now than it ever has in the past. Thanks for the upload.
i know that this would matter to people. but this was actually release in my birthday. wish i found it sooner
He is my third favorite Character. I REALLY hope he wont die in the next volume...
Me protecting my favorite NPCs from other players and enemies.
The intro gives me chills, man. This song just hits different to the other soundtracks in this volume, and I love it!
“It is said that while this Tin Man found his heart long ago, that he forgot one important thing; It was nowhere near as tough as the rest of him. His skin turned away blades and his resolve bolstered hope in his ally’s, but it would be his heart, his empathy, that would be his undoing. Not in losing it, but thinking it invincible. Nothing destroys someone quite as much as putting trust in another, sacrificing for them, and then being betrayed.
In the end, the Tin Man did not lose his heart. It was his heart that would fail to hold the weight of the sky. He was no titan, no immortal, no god. Only a man who thought he could save someone.
But None could have saved the world alone. And so, the sky fell.”
Ironwood has an honestly shocking character development, but also a really well done one. He believes he is doing what is right, but since Glynda isn't there to guide him and care about him (she challenged him, but she truly cared), he let his work and duty crush him into misguided fear and hate.
Ptsd can take much out of a man
Hm. Well, that, and Team RWBY actively refused to trust him even though he gave Ruby the Relic as a sign of trust. Ruby was worried about what Ironwood would do if he learned that Salem can't be killed. Ironwood took it in stride, meaning that Ruby got worked up for nothing. So when Ironwood demanded the Relic back because she proved herself to be dishonest, I rolled my eyes when Ruby started whining.
@@Mark-fc7tu Rwby is literally the worst character in the series, right next to Blake and Yang.
Yes but if he was told the truth by the last few people he trusted (team RWBY) he wouldn’t have gone down that road
ironwood was doing what was right, the fact that he was betrayed at every turn by people who either didn't know what was going on (which is understandable, the people of mantle were out of the loop for a reason) or by total idiots who never matured past 13 (team rwby might have single-handedly given salem the win at atlas)
It'll never unhear the fighting in the background.
I like how theres two ways of interpreting the song. As a hero determinted to protect everyone no matter what, or a tyrant who thinks he knows what best to help everyone.
Not messing, I had this and War playing back to back when the soundtrack first dropped and I got serious chills. So GOOD!
I've been a RWBY fan for years and I was shook when I heard Caleb sing this ABSOLUTE banger so Caleb my friend your a legend
This man is the best character he’s more then a general he’s KING James Ironwood of altas
I absolutely love this song to death. As a member of the military, Caleb really hit the perfect pitch and feeling as the singer here. The lyrics also really hit home with me. As a soldier, we're always willing to give our lives to protect those we love. Also, as a side note, I just have a sickening feeling the very slow opening to this song might play during something tragic. It just has that tone to it. However, this is awesome regardless and I may or may not have had this on repeat all day while I cleaned the house, tahaha.
Question: What do you think of the "I'm due process" lyric? Doesn't that imply that Ironwood sees himself as the law, and won't let anyone tell him he's wrong?
@@CABRALFAN27 Well, if we take the series at face value, then no. He's a member of a council which decides the laws, yeah, but he seems himself as "due process" meaning people have to indeed go through him in order to break the laws and get away with it but he's only one part of that cog. I left my opinion on this song and Ironwood as a whole over on Adel Aka's channel on his "Ironwood: Hero or Villain" video. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.
@@CABRALFAN27 The due process is a neat throwaway to Jimmy's gun. It's name is Due Process
@@CABRALFAN27 perhaps he sees himself and his weapon as being one and the same.
And as a soldier you should understand how easy it is for someone who believes in sacrificing and fighting for the sake of others to become like Ironwood when taken too far. It's an issue all throughout the chains of command. Fascist egocentric paranoids who believe they know best. That's what Ironwood became and it's a tragedy because a military lifestyle makes it easy to be that way.
Imagine if Ironwood was team RWBY's temporary adopted dad/guardian lmao. I'm not sure if he would be all overprotective dad mode or if he would pull an ozpin. "General ironwood sir, the children have started a food fight and are currently destroying the cafeteria, sir!"
"It's fine."
"But sir, one of the children was blasted though the roof!"
"It's fine"
"But sir-"
"It's FINE"
Considering Ironwood just CHUCKLED when he found out they stole an Atlas airship, I can 100% see this happening and now I’m sad that it didn’t! 😂😂😂
Au where instead of going off the deep end everyone just has an open conversation and things go fine
This should've been volume 8. He doesn't overreact, looks outside and doesn't see the world on fire
"Oh okay Salem's just a big ass liar. Let's go beat up a fire witch, maybe meet the winter maiden whilst doing so"
Caleb KILLED THIS.
I mean, those children are doing a laughably good job at winning the war... for Salem maybe but they still are.