Just remember what the Taliban did to Buddist statues in Afghanistan, among other items of worldwide historical interest. They took great delight in destroying them.
There is much to write, but, in simple terms, it is OUR museum, NOT the curators’. Academics they may be, but in my world UNEMPLOYED they should be. 👍🇬🇧👍🇮🇱👍🇬🇧👍🇮🇱👍🇬🇧👍
On 8 October 1938 the British Museum Standing Committee found that "through unauthorised and improper efforts to improve the colour of the Parthenon sculpture for Lord Duveen's new gallery, some important pieces had been greatly damaged " Because the ignorant British 'experts' washed the marbles in corrosive liquids to make them .look better.'
@@bentspoon1805 In 2015 National Geographic reported that: “As the Greek economic crisis has intensified over the past five years police detectives with the Greek Department of Antiquities and Cultural Heritage have noticed not only that illegal excavations and thefts of archaeological artifacts increased, but also that the typical profile of looters has changed. Before the crisis, many looters were members of criminal networks that also trafficked in guns and narcotics. Now it appears that regular people with access to tools for digging are unearthing pieces of Greece's past and selling them for quick cash. This surge comes at a time when agencies charged with protecting the country’s antiquities are underfunded and understaffed because of government budget cuts.” Because the incompetent Greek Government is unable to manage tax collection or budget sufficiently to provide protection for national artefacts.
@@bentspoon1805 Shall we also discuss the various conflicts that were fought in Greece since the removal of the Elgin marbles in 1812, and the damage caused to artefacts during these wars? How about the Greek War of Independence (1821-1829) when Greek “monasteries were often used during the war as fortresses or places to store ammunition; in some cases the books they contained were destroyed to provide paper for cartridges.” Ηλίθιοι ηλίθιοι!
It is high time that schools reminded our students that slavery has always existed in Africa and that Africans were both the chief slavers and victims of that pernicious trade.
The people that want the items would much rather them be blown up or looted than be in our hands. Once things are polished up nicely, reveared and in other hands, they want them. Some people too are doing this to divide us with taking our eyes of the real issues.
Given the unknown fate of the German half of the Benin Bronzes, this is just a stupid discussion to have. For those of you unaware, we have no idea what happened to them after they were returned to the Nigerian government, they’re missing, presumed sold.
For your information - the money the Brits 'donated' to 'help' the Greek liberation cause was in the form of a loan which the Greek state had to pay back with loan shark interest, which they did. And the only reason they wanted to help Greece was that they saw that the Greeks were pushing the Turks out, and at the last minute gave that money because they thaught that Greece would not be able to pay the money back and Greece would become one of their colonies, which didn't happen.
I think the BM should do what's for the best for the preserving objects (i.e. where do they have the safest long term future) and not get involved in these political trends. Long term 'loans' is just a way to give stuff back and make it more palatable to taxpayers who pay for the museum. Come on -no country which gets "its heritage" back is ever gonna return it !
Tax payers do not pay for the museum. The museum is a self-funding trust supported by historic bequests and current donations. It must be remembered that nearly all that is in the museum was given or loaned to it on the condition or at least expectation that the items would be in the care of the museum in perpetuity.
Those countries are not civilised enough to keep these artifacts safe. Look at the disaster that happened to our historical treasures in Iraq - thankfully the British Museum has some artifacts remaining so not all were lost. When these nations sufficiently develop, perhaps then they can be trusted as custodians. Until then, the response, must be an emphatic NO!
@Nii1978 would you rather them all returned, then possibly destroyed and lost forever due to radicals and instability? Why do you not understand that these ancient treasures do not belong to a specific nation, as they are the historical inheritance of all people and must be protected. I would rather the British Museum collect all of these treasures, rather than to risk bearded extremists destroy any more of them with sledgehammers and explosives.
Give everything away. The population of this country under the age if sixty has no interest in anything historical. Give it back to whoever and they will sell it to private collectors and it will never be seen again.
What if a foreign museum got some important artifact found in Britain or related to it (like the sword of an English king or an inscription in stone about Camelot...). Should that museum return it to Britain?
So are all the museums in other countries going to return all of their artifacts to their countries of origin as well? Well except for the ones that are in Islamic territories I suppose, since they systemically destroy religious iconography of other belief systems
Think of those Ancient Summerian statues shot to pieces by ISIS. You don't want all eggs in one basket, best to have cultural artifacts stored at museums around the world to ensure something survives if the worst happens.
No need to do that as Africa is coming here. In any event people from those cultures have no interest in museums etc. It's a fact you wont find many ethnic family days out to our world leading museums on any day of the week!
@@johnnyhollis9977good points, but Greece etc should have it back now, and developmentcountries when they are ready. Their schools etc can take kids to museums in the future.
Well ever thought that if they actually had their own artifacts it might help with tourism in those countries. The economy would be boosted and they wouldn't need to come here?
@@elpistolerosolitario8257 What rubbish. Learn the truth, he stole them by pulling them down. Many broke into small and large pieces. They had not touched until then , even by the Ottomans. They had given Elgin permission to study them, but he stole them. He was nothing but a big time thief.
Leave them where they will be protected forever, as a resource and record of human endeavours and cultural development. Ancient items are a legacy for the whole of humanity. We know they will not be conserved for posterity in their countries of geographic origin. In some cases the items have no interest for the modern population, were ignored neglected or deliberately damaged by subsequent waves of different ethnic or religious groups throughout history. They were not valued by anyone until western archaeologists came along! They would not exist now if they had not been brought to western museums with the resources and expertise to conserve them. We already know that famous items given back over recent decades to countries with dodgy regimes, have NOT been made available for locals to see and appreciate the legacy of their ancient forbears. We KNOW FOR FACT that many were sold to private collectors, or consigned to incompetent care without proper curatorship.
Pick your battles. It’s widely accepted that the brits stole the koorinoor diamond from Raja Ranjit Singh - something as extraordinary and priceless would never have been gifted as the brits claimed. As for items that mad extremists would have blown up, stolen or otherwise yes, the brits prob saved them. But there’s a time to give them back.
Stand firm brothers and sisters don't let the muslims intimidate you
Just remember what the Taliban did to Buddist statues in Afghanistan, among other items of worldwide historical interest. They took great delight in destroying them.
Vote Labour get the third world as a neighbour.
Vote reform, get more of the norm
Neighbour? They'll be moving into your house making you homeless more like.
Vote Conservative, get invadedative.
Labour won't win
Excellent, lets give the people from those countries back at the same time.
There is much to write, but, in simple terms, it is OUR museum, NOT the curators’.
Academics they may be, but in my world UNEMPLOYED they should be.
👍🇬🇧👍🇮🇱👍🇬🇧👍🇮🇱👍🇬🇧👍
The British Museum should definitely not return anything. More often than not the Museum has protected artefacts from being damaged/destroyed.
Benin was destroyed by the British. Crooks.
@@HuntingdonnTheir record in many places is destroying artistic, historical, cultural, religious artefacts!!!
On 8 October 1938 the British Museum Standing Committee found that "through unauthorised and improper efforts to improve the colour of the Parthenon sculpture for Lord Duveen's new gallery, some important pieces had been greatly damaged " Because the ignorant British 'experts' washed the marbles in corrosive liquids to make them .look better.'
@@bentspoon1805 In 2015 National Geographic reported that: “As the Greek economic crisis has intensified over the past five years police detectives with the Greek Department of Antiquities and Cultural Heritage have noticed not only that illegal excavations and thefts of archaeological artifacts increased, but also that the typical profile of looters has changed.
Before the crisis, many looters were members of criminal networks that also trafficked in guns and narcotics. Now it appears that regular people with access to tools for digging are unearthing pieces of Greece's past and selling them for quick cash. This surge comes at a time when agencies charged with protecting the country’s antiquities are underfunded and understaffed because of government budget cuts.” Because the incompetent Greek Government is unable to manage tax collection or budget sufficiently to provide protection for national artefacts.
@@bentspoon1805 Shall we also discuss the various conflicts that were fought in Greece since the removal of the Elgin marbles in 1812, and the damage caused to artefacts during these wars? How about the Greek War of Independence (1821-1829) when Greek “monasteries were often used during the war as fortresses or places to store ammunition; in some cases the books they contained were destroyed to provide paper for cartridges.” Ηλίθιοι ηλίθιοι!
It is high time that schools reminded our students that slavery has always existed in Africa and that Africans were both the chief slavers and victims of that pernicious trade.
And the British did the most to end it.
The people that want the items would much rather them be blown up or looted than be in our hands. Once things are polished up nicely, reveared and in other hands, they want them. Some people too are doing this to divide us with taking our eyes of the real issues.
The artefacts won't be so well looked after. For me it's not about visiting and seeing them in person but for them to be looked after for ever more.
India has preserved its 4000 years old artifacts, what you are on about.
@@tusharsharma1363 I agree London isn't what it was and is likely to be damaged.
Given the unknown fate of the German half of the Benin Bronzes, this is just a stupid discussion to have.
For those of you unaware, we have no idea what happened to them after they were returned to the Nigerian government, they’re missing, presumed sold.
Probably in private collections of some very unpleasant people now.
@@cherrob48 I imagine most people willing to buy monuments to brutal, recidivist slave traders in a back alley fit that description.
The royal navy helped free Greece from the ottomans, British citizens donated millions of pounds to help with the liberation in 1828.
For your information - the money the Brits 'donated' to 'help' the Greek liberation cause was in the form of a loan which the Greek state had to pay back with loan shark interest, which they did. And the only reason they wanted to help Greece was that they saw that the Greeks were pushing the Turks out, and at the last minute gave that money because they thaught that Greece would not be able to pay the money back and Greece would become one of their colonies, which didn't happen.
@@bentspoon1805 I'm hugely disappointed....
Send every piece backand let them take care of it, screw it.
I think the BM should do what's for the best for the preserving objects (i.e. where do they have the safest long term future) and not get involved in these political trends. Long term 'loans' is just a way to give stuff back and make it more palatable to taxpayers who pay for the museum. Come on -no country which gets "its heritage" back is ever gonna return it !
Tax payers do not pay for the museum. The museum is a self-funding trust supported by historic bequests and current donations. It must be remembered that nearly all that is in the museum was given or loaned to it on the condition or at least expectation that the items would be in the care of the museum in perpetuity.
And coincidentally theres a really strong push of the idea that the British "stole everything" as a meme.
Not a meme.
The British had NOTHING bar the Magna Carta to offer the world
Yawn, ours now.
Those countries are not civilised enough to keep these artifacts safe. Look at the disaster that happened to our historical treasures in Iraq - thankfully the British Museum has some artifacts remaining so not all were lost. When these nations sufficiently develop, perhaps then they can be trusted as custodians. Until then, the response, must be an emphatic NO!
But they don’t belong to us? How hard is this to understand.
@Nii1978 would you rather them all returned, then possibly destroyed and lost forever due to radicals and instability?
Why do you not understand that these ancient treasures do not belong to a specific nation, as they are the historical inheritance of all people and must be protected.
I would rather the British Museum collect all of these treasures, rather than to risk bearded extremists destroy any more of them with sledgehammers and explosives.
@@globalpropertyinvestmentThey don’t belong to specific nations? I’m sure the creators made them to be ‘shared’. Jesus, let’s end this here.
@@Nii1978 they are the inheritance of all humanity. Not for some troglodytes to destroy.
@@globalpropertyinvestmentexactly so
Give everything away. The population of this country under the age if sixty has no interest in anything historical. Give it back to whoever and they will sell it to private collectors and it will never be seen again.
Your point is valid. The Mandela family have destroyed his legacy
What if a foreign museum got some important artifact found in Britain or related to it (like the sword of an English king or an inscription in stone about Camelot...). Should that museum return it to Britain?
Tom Harwood is a gay lefty, should get together with Benbumming Butterworth.
"I don't think so; we're still looking at it" (James Acaster)
So are all the museums in other countries going to return all of their artifacts to their countries of origin as well? Well except for the ones that are in Islamic territories I suppose, since they systemically destroy religious iconography of other belief systems
Exactly true
Thank God for Rafe!
Think of those Ancient Summerian statues shot to pieces by ISIS. You don't want all eggs in one basket, best to have cultural artifacts stored at museums around the world to ensure something survives if the worst happens.
Ends suddenly when artefacts appearing on the open market was mentioned!
Well the British museum was selling stuff on eBay. Funny how that story has been forgotten.
Send it back or exchange.
Of course other countries want their Heritage placed in their museums. So would we.
No need to do that as Africa is coming here. In any event people from those cultures have no interest in museums etc. It's a fact you wont find many ethnic family days out to our world leading museums on any day of the week!
@@johnnyhollis9977good points, but Greece etc should have it back now, and developmentcountries when they are ready. Their schools etc can take kids to museums in the future.
Agreed, Europe is different as people do visit their own museums! 😉@@Slumbert
Well ever thought that if they actually had their own artifacts it might help with tourism in those countries. The economy would be boosted and they wouldn't need to come here?
They are NOT the Elgin marbles!
He did NOT make them.
He did NOT create them.
He did NOT sculpt them.
HE STOLE THEM!
Give them back!
Elgin saved what was left of the marbles Many of them had already been ground down to make cement by locals. They were not treasured at the time.
@@elpistolerosolitario8257 What rubbish. Learn the truth, he stole them by pulling them down. Many broke into small and large pieces. They had not touched until then , even by the Ottomans. They had given Elgin permission to study them, but he stole them. He was nothing but a big time thief.
Who did he steal them from?
@@mywholesomechannel The Greeks, to whom theybelonged
@@bentspoon1805 The Greeks? The population that lives in the land known as "Greece" nowadays? When were the marbles taken?
Send it all back and close the stupid museum
😢GIVE THEM BACK 😢CALL BACK UR SETTLERS 😢AN WE WILL LEAVE ❤
These treasures now belong to us by right of conquest we conquered these countries they belong to us😅
Likewise, the citizens of the countries you ‘conquered’ have every right to settle in the U.K - and stay.
@@Nii1978They have been pain hundreds of millions to improve their countries. They do not need to come here.
Leave them where they will be protected forever, as a resource and record of human endeavours and cultural development. Ancient items are a legacy for the whole of humanity. We know they will not be conserved for posterity in their countries of geographic origin. In some cases the items have no interest for the modern population, were ignored neglected or deliberately damaged by subsequent waves of different ethnic or religious groups throughout history. They were not valued by anyone until western archaeologists came along! They would not exist now if they had not been brought to western museums with the resources and expertise to conserve them. We already know that famous items given back over recent decades to countries with dodgy regimes, have NOT been made available for locals to see and appreciate the legacy of their ancient forbears. We KNOW FOR FACT that many were sold to private collectors, or consigned to incompetent care without proper curatorship.
india has preserved its hindu artifacts of 4000 years old
They are still here
And you think we won't be able to preserve a few paintings
There's difference between collecting and looting😢😮😕😒🤔
As long as they also return the foreign humans along with the artifacts?? Fair do’s after all.
You don't have to, unsecured community
👏👏👏
'Molon labe'
Pick your battles. It’s widely accepted that the brits stole the koorinoor diamond from Raja Ranjit Singh - something as extraordinary and priceless would never have been gifted as the brits claimed. As for items that mad extremists would have blown up, stolen or otherwise yes, the brits prob saved them. But there’s a time to give them back.
Where does it stop? Can we demand land back too?
If we stole them , we should return them.
So if they were paid for or are spoils of war they are honestly come by.
Being paid for is not the same as being stolen ?@@johnwade1095
Do we return land too?