As a lifelong Doom enthusiast (40+ dude), I have trouble putting Doom2 in a critical perspective. It's like critiquing individual details of one's girlfriend in highschool. Impossible. Certain things have to be experienced and retained as a whole. The only thing I feel when I replay Doom2 two decades down the line is how *huge* everything was to us in the mid-90s, how every situation in the game, even the ones described as "bland", were totally unique, unprecedented, fearsome, and how they required an amount of improvisation and learning on the job that no younger player can even begin to imagine. We basically went from Sonic to Doom2 in the time it took to squeeze a pimple. Even the "bad" levels are tattooed in my brain, pixel by pixel, challenge by challenge. The Pit? Terrific! Downtown? Unforgettable. Monster Condo? One of the scariest memories... Of course now we have Sunlust and other gems of design, but Doom2, like Doom, did so many things right it's unfathomable. Eeeh, old man's rant over :)
Thanks for this comment. I couldn't agree and relate more, especially when mentioning the maps. Back in those days Doom2 was the one you played and I always thought it got more interesting after Trick and Traps.
Francesco Peri - Right on man! I could not have said it better myself. My obsession with Doom and Doom 2 began back in 1995 during my freshman year of college while I was living in the dorms. The original Doom series on PC was so epic and iconic that only those of us who were actually playing it back in the 90's can truly understand.
I love everything new added in doom 2. Archviles, pain elementals, revenants, hell knights and of course the super shotgun. Seriously, nearly everything added in doom 2 has become a series staple.
The level "Gotcha" is named so because the level before hand makes it seem like you need all three keys top complete but only need two. I spent a good hour trying to get to the blue key which I could see just out of reach. Suddenly realised that they'd pulled a fast one on me and I didn't even need it. To then finish the level and see "Gotcha!". That's my thinking behind it anyways.
@@TahirTheProfessionalYapper To a point but the general look of Doom 1’s maps at least changed with every mission, the mars base vs hell maps look like it could be a different game.
@@mikeg2491 when i said repetitive i said you do not really want to play it often. this is a flaw i cannot point out when it comes to plutonia, the difficulty keeps you on edge and allows for good replayability to a certain degree
There's an interview with John Romero where he says your should make your first level last, so it is your best one, I think that philosophy of placing your "best levels" first may explain the "quality dip" seen in Doom level designs. I remember the logic being that the first level is the one to make an impression, and that the first levels are the ones that most people are going to play, it probably comes from the shareware model too
Downtown is a great idea, the game is called Hell on Earth and it is one of the only levels that is "clearly" an actual place. The problem is that it really lacks a sense of direction, so much so they had to put a giant "go here" arrow on the ground. I loved it as a kid, even though i always got lost. These days ive learned how to beat it in like 5 minutes so it isnt so bad.
I feel like there's really something for everyone in doom 2, personally am a fan of of The Chasm for the tense atmosphere but find The Living End a bit too cramped for my liking
@@IAmTyler100 I love The Chasm too. I also memed about it alot when people complained about DOOM Eternal platforming and that it doesn't belong in DOOM, I was like "hehe, do you remember The Chasm?"
I too hate Industrial Zone, mainly so on vanilla, as without mouse look, trying to snipe the hitscanners high up that you can't see is hell, and as a whole the map is pretty hitscan hell-lite. With mouse look I still don't like it and find it bland, but it becomes tolerable.
I'm pretty sure "Gotcha!" is called that because the very first thing you do in the level is shoot a zombie from behind - a sorta "gotcha!" moment, and if you're not paying attention, you'll soon after begin to be shot in the back yourself, double-gotcha'd!
I feel Doom 1 had more open ended maps to explore and because of that many of the map could even be ignored, while Doom 2 had somewhat more linear but more puzzly type maps, the problem is that due to the nature of doom 2 maps as the difficulty ramps up they become far more frustrating and even unfun, also it often feels like doom 2 had enemy placement ment to get you of guard and kill you with bigger mobs which can be frustrating too
This was shamefully also a problem with Plutonia, TNT and Master Levels as well. Im very glad Heretic existed since it solved practically all the issues i have with Doom 2, and Hexen managed to make bigger maps but without making it clunky to navigate. Hell, i wouldnt even complain if someone thinks Heretic is better than Doom 1.
I must say this - Sandy's maps are amazing on technical level. Think about him as a toolmaker of sorts. He's got the editor and did with it things that didn't seem possible at first glance. With this, he created the tools, the very concepts and ideas that could be later used by other map makers. That alone is quite astonishing. I mean, come on - Tricks and Traps - the map that basically made Doom into a dungeon crawl, almost like in D&D. Or Dead Simple along with American McGee - perhaps the most iconic Doom 2 map. Sure, there are some weird things in Petersen's maps, some strange empty spaces, or not so great flow of some levels, like in Downtown - but looking back at it - seeing something like a city area was incredibly ambitious, and even if I don't exactly like this particular map, I simply must respect the effort and skill put in working around all the technical limitations. Because hey - we should not forget that technology was not what it is now and there was more than just engine limitations to consider at the time.
As I understand, John Carmack was SO mad at him for making Mt. Etebus, thus effectively forcing him to improve the engine and push the technology to its absolute limits to render such large spaces.
You also really can’t hold the maps in doom 2 to a too high standard considering how the game’s development looked like. id were trying to do a lot at once back then with quake’s engine and development. Having only 9 people in your company (if I’m correct) work on 2 projects at once with one helping out with another company’s games isn’t gonna create great results
@@D00000T Oh, true, but all things considered, maps in Doom and Doom 2 are in a very high standard. At the time of Doom's release, this type of game was still very new, and PC gaming was on a far more primitive level than consoles at the time in terms of gameplay. The gold standard of the... Proto FPS were clones of Wolfenstein, which were for all intents and purposes just glorified mazes. Even PC platformers at this time were mostly massive mazes and collect-a-thons. While Doom didn't completely deviate from this idea, there is a running theme to a lot of the maps, clearer variety. Much more custom and creative work than a simple re-arrangement of corridors.
I'm not a speedrunner or anything but I never had a problem with that level. I like the high ceilings and waterfalls of slime, it has a cool aesthetic. It's also not that hard to walk on the narrow platforms if you have any skill at all
By the standards of the time, The Chasm was a good game. Not sure why people are so hard in it. Yes it's not Quake but any young boy back then would be happy to get any new FPS let alone a true 3D one.
I always figured that "Gotcha!" was named as such because the end of The Citadel looks like you're finally going through the Hell Gate, only to be teleported elsewhere for one final Earth map before actually going into Hell.
I'm surprised everyone likes The Crusher so much. The introduction of the Revenant feels underwhelming; he's in really tight quarters so you never get to see the full impact of his homing rockets. The Spider Mastermind feels absolutely wasted; she's such a badass and seeing her introduced so early and only to be killed as a joke is just irritating to me. Not to mention the rest of the level just feels... diffuse. There's no rhyme or reason to the design, which feels very unusual for American McGee. On the other hand, I *loved* The Inmost Dens - I think it's the strongest level in the game. Really well designed aesthetically, plus the hitscan fights keep you on your toes.
Your complaint about the Chasm is 100% valid because I also generally only save after level completion, but... an F6 quicksave is a technically "non-cheat" loophole around those little annoyances.
I also think the game heads downhill as soon as Tricks and Traps comes up. Downtown is why I think overall the levels in Doom II were a letdown. id did nothing with a demonic invasion of earth. The super shotgun and the new enemies all became classics, but the levels hold this game back. And looking at the levels one after another in this video show how they are overwhelming brown and drab.
Yeah, it's strange how Earth looks exactly like Phobos and Deimos. They didn't even bother with new textures. Doom 2 had potential, but it was just a cash grab in the end.
Sorry for a year later comment, but I feel exactly the same about Doom II. I finished Doom 1993 with GZDoom 4 times, 1 with just free aim and 3 with beatifull doom mod. Then a couple more times with other mods. But just 3 months ago I was able to finish Doom 2 and I was just pushing it as an acomplishment for myself. I tried so many times to finish it, but its when Tricks and Traps hits that the game starts losing me. The addition of the super shotgun and especially the new enemies is really nice, but the level design is either frustating or, most of the time, not fun at all. Do you know any mappack megawad made by fans for GZDoom that keeps the game insteresting?
3:57 The reason it was an issue was because in Doom 1, though the level design was abstract it still FIT a progression of themes... That is until Thy Flesh Consumed came along and was just a medley of levels. E1 is a tech base. E2 is a tech base being consumed/overtaken by Hell. E3 is all out Hell, and where the levels start to become really abstractive and surreal. Even with E3 though, there was a sense of building towards the final conflict. Doom 2 tends to meander about during the middle of the campaign. I do, absolutely, agree that Doom 2 would have benefitted from retaining the episode structure. Indeed, it basically breaks down into three parts in terms of narrative. Starport-City to Hellish dimensions, to the deeper Hell sections.
Doom 2's biggest contribution is arguably to the modding community, since it's basically Doom 1 with more enemies and items. Granted, I also feel very nostalgic for some of the levels.
Refueling Base is one of the maps Tom Hall created for Doom 1 but it wasn't put in to the final game. If you play the Doom 1 Alphas it's of the maps in there.
My earliest doom memory is so 90s. We used to only have the internet intermittently, whenever a free AOL or Compuserve trial cd (or even disk sometimes) fell into our hands. The whole family used to sit around the computer to "go on the Internet". I remember us all sitting around the monitor, and looking on a doom 2 custom levels site. There was a was that was like 5mb or something, much bigger than normal levels. Some of the internet free trials were a number of mb traffic, so we had a mini family meeting about whether I could download the level! Haha, the budget was approved, I downloaded it, and then right near the end, it being dialup internet, the download failed! Disaster. And we were soured against trying again. I never got to play the mysterious level, and still to this day it pops up in my mind, wondering what it was and what I missed out on. I have no idea the name of it, and no chance of ever tracing it, so its just a memory that will always be kicking around :P
The only thing in this video I really disagree with is how critical you were of the 2 secret levels. Personally, I never saw them as particularly in-depth celebrations of Id's history... rather I think it's more like the developers being like "haha what if we put a wolfenstein level in as a secret." They're like the original shitpost maps. And I'm cool with that.
To be honest, i think they were great inclussions, if not, even the highlight of the game, since they were more open than in the OG, and they are one of the few levels on the game that is open and lack any kind of shitty maze, with tons of enemies and action packed. The only thing that i dislike is that they lack other enemies from Wolfenstein 3d, but other than that, it was one of the few actually good designed levels of the game.
Monster Condo with its music and gory visuals are creepy as hell. Love that map and decades later, that maps still makes me uncomfortable when playing it
Its my favourite game exactly because of its experimental nature - it is a game that wanted to fuck with me and I appreciate that a lot. I love Doom 1 too, but its just that for me DOOM 2's design of gimmicks and playfulness and the middle finger at the player is what I like.
I have always preferred the level design from the first Doom. I always felt like Doom 2 was trying to push the engine capabilities by creating larger areas that resembled real life structures such as cities. In my opinion this ended in disaster. The engine was better around surreal and abstract level design. The maps in Doom 1 were much more memorable. I liked both Romero and Petersen's level design in Doom 1. They took different approaches but both created memorable maps. Some notable ones by Petersen where, Containment area, Refinery, Deimos lab, House of Pain and Pandemonium. Notable ones for me by Romero are the whole first episode. Both worked togeather to give us different maps. The best looking maps were provided by Romero but the most creative and inovative maps wree provided by Petersen. I can not pick a favourite. They both brough unique talents to the table. Its a game from childhood that has always stayed with me. It scared me snd intrigued me at the same time. It is still fun to play today. Doom is a piece of gaming history. Even though Doom 2 introduced more features i was not as impressed with the level design for Doom 2.
My favorite map: Monster Condo (also it has my favorite music) My most hated map: The Spirit World (Try to guess why...) I Can't belive that FP did not mention the biggest trap on "The Spirit World"... The player MUST shoot a wall so he can exit the level. Yes, MANY people got stuck at this level because of this crap.
I wish all the fan-made wads from the early BBS days were archived. Lots of super unique maps and challenges were created during that time. Some wads were just perfect for deathmatch. Also, if anyone ever comes across the "Stargate" wad that was based off the movie and was probably made around the 1993 timeline, give me a head's up! Who ever made that wad really had an eye for surreal art and the spirit of the movie.
My problem is that there not enough creative lighting usage, like flashing lights in doom 1's E1 levels, it doesn't have enough environmental hazards like crushers or barrels, or environmental visuals like the "donut" elevator thingy and the levels all feel so different.
No mention of music. The atmosphere of Doom and Doom II was what I loved the most, and the music was a big part of that. The urgent soundtrack of Spirit World was amazing and frightening. Dead Simple was defined by the doomed metal sound that started as the level began. One of the things I find so underwhelming about new Doom content, be it mods like Sunlust or the new Doom games since 2016, is the lack of atmospheric music. It makes everything feel so much less immersive when the music is only generic guitar or looping ambience.
Oh, I had no idea that you were a Doom fan Geekdom. Awesome! Would you do some videos on the Doom lore if you are interested? 2016 and Eternal are especially ripe for some great videos.
Tricks and Traps becomes way more interesting on a Pistol Start as you don't have the ammunition to deal with all pinkies and cacos together. You need to lure the pinkies to the cacos and have the bulk of them destroy each other. It's then also the first level where you need to deal with pinkies the berserker way because again, not enough ammo otherwise.
I've always preferred Doom 1 over 2 despite the improvements. Something about the levels just felt perfect in the original while in the 2nd one I kept feeling like it was all over the place and very inconsistent, as much as I loved it. Doom 1/Ultimate, and Doom 64 are forever my favorite games in the franchise. Great video, man.
26:27 My favorite Doom map of all time, because it actually resembles a town for once! And I love the shooting galleries of chain gunners and shotgunners.
Anyone interested in soft-locking the Doom game? Step 1, go to level E1M8. Step 2, leave as many pinkie monsters alive as possible. Step 3, kill the barons. Step 4, run outside as QUICKLY as you can and stand right next to the elevator you took to fight the barons. Step 5, with any luck at least ONE pinkie demon will come dawn when the star goes down. Step 6, go to the teleporter and activate the steps and trick the pinkie into going up it. Congratulations. You're stuck on Mars' moon!
You actually inspired me today. I've been getting out of my responsibilities as a member of the United Aerospace Armed Forces. I've beaten Doom 2 on PS1 Ultra-Violence a thousand times, but not yet on original PC difficulty with Arch-Viles.
I have only one question: texture filtering whhyy? : D Okay, I have a second one: is this the way you normally talk (as in how you "pushing" certain words and consonants/vowels here and there) in everyday conversations? Not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just honestly curious for a while now if this is for achieving a certain theatrical effect or this is just the natural you. Anyways, I agree most of your points, keep on playing this awesome game and keep on with the videos! Cheers,
This is older Doom footage that had laying about, and I have since turned filtering off. As for the voice, definitely not lmao. I don't actively put anything on, but I think this is just my "reading voice". I script all my videos, and this is the result of that.
@@FPMedia_ Texture filtering: all forgiven. : D Yup, also crossed my mind that it might be something like that. Scripting (at least to a certain degree) is a nice thing for most people and for most content. Have you tried the keyword approach? I mean you are quite familiar with the topic you make a video/script about, so basically (almost, if not) all the knowledge is already in your head, so you use the script only to put order in the "chaos". Am I correct? How about writing down some keywords and/or thoughts only, not the complete monologue, and come up with the rest on the fly? Might take a bit of practice and a little time to be accustomed to this, but it might give you a more natural flow after a while. Or I'm just stupid and have no clue about this whole stuff. : D I don't want to dictate how you do things, it's just a thought, a friendly take on your content, nothing more; you might consider it or not. Would love to see your channel grow, especially since I don't think ~9k subs equals the effort you are putting in. : >
@@zatozatoichi7920 Thank you for the kind words, yeah my reading voice (aka my video voice) is very different to my normal voice lol. Without a script, I think my video quality would go downhill and if I did just use notes, I would have to edit the audio around a lot more. I'll probably have some videos where I have non-scripted parts (check my Quake 3 video as an example), but that's about it I think. I appreciate the comments :)
@@FPMedia_ Yep, it might take more effort (in terms of editing and/or practice) to circumvent the fact that you are not that comfortable with the notes just yet, but it might also pay off big time in the long run, because the more you become a natural presenter, the more easily you can grab the attention of the potential audience. I think this is because the fresh viewers can identify with you more easily when they feel you are acting on a more casual/life-like manner while delivering your content; this is approaching professionalism from the other way around in my opinion. But I lay off with my rant now, it would be the best if I could start my daily work, even though I'm not that motivated to do so. : D Cheers,
@@FPMedia_ i know you dont have it on anymore but why did you play with it in the first place Seriusly in genuinely curious why people play with it did you think it looked good? Or did you not know how to disable it initially? Maybe forgot? Really i want to know
I love the classic dooms more than the modern ones. As someone who mods the game and enjoys playing the mods and the amazing multiplayer servers from GZDOOM, it just like them more. I still like the modern dooms but I think I like the classics better
The classics were just objectively better games, better controls (incredible being very old games), unique artstyle, better level design, better soundtrack and more revolutionary overall. The new Dooms are as revolutionary as any other COD....................................................................................................................................................................... So nothing.
I played downtown for the first time and I was surprised that people hated it, it's my favourite level. I had no issue with the point of not knowing where to go because of the automap, and I felt like it gave the automap a much-needed purpose. Most people probably got lost in what to do next due to forgetting about the automap, which I did a first, but then I remembered about it and the level got a lot easier in knowing where to go, cooler and funner to play.
I love the Doom 2 maps. Best in series. Notably the urban levels 10-20. 10, 12, 13, 15, and 16 were awesome. Downtown might be my favorite Doom level ever. I wish we could have gone with a more realistic style in the newer Dooms. I even thought about scanning actual areas of real cities and making levels based on them.
Ive always loved suburbs slew of enemies enclosing and trying to psyche me out by teleporting in. Its honestly a crucial level for me, despite the murky mood
I personally do believe doom 2 to be a weak game. Doom was the first fps I really played (I played it about 4 years ago) and the game design is masterful! I was excited to play the sequel but I really disliked it. Design-wise Doom 2 seems like a mindless happy-go-lucky sequel. It can be fun, because it uses the same building blocks as the original, but the design is such a stepdown from the first game that it would baffle me if I didn't know how doom 2 was made very quickly (and if I remember correctly, mostly for money)
Its easy to be a armchair critic on Doom 2 20 something years later. Remember when this came out in 1994 it was new and unique. A lot of maps are experimental and level designers John Romero, Sandy Peterson and American McGee were trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t because it was that cutting edge. Its unfair to compare levels, because it kind of laid a foundation for future map designers to build on. You have to look at it as a whole package and that package is pretty awesome.
When did this trend of emphasizing the last syllable of every word begin, cause I hear it in almost every youtube video now. Especially with the Brit/Aussie ones.
True, I practically pissed my pants when I went through the door and saw around 50 of the tall demons all standing in rows, only to later realize I could kill them pretty easily by just letting them fight each other and taking out the stragglers using the invincibility orb in that room
Very interesting to watch. When I played Doom to death in the 90s, I never judged the maps by their level design, but just searched for ways to beat them on nighmare skill level. I liked the ones than can be beaten by consistent playing and feared the ones that were dependent on luck, since they often ruined multi level runs.
Shame that one of Doom 2's best songs got wasted on The Pit, but it did make the map more tolerable, and it would have been just hell to play through if it had something like The Focus' song on it.
Fortress of Mystery is epic if you encounter it the first time. It's so schocking to see being surrounded by barons in episode 2, together with the first time hearing the mouth for war midi.
I first properly played the classic Dooms in the late 90s, after the games had been out a little while. I played the first two Dooms and then the Final Doom stuff straight through, as though they were one massive game (I had the complete box-set thing for the PC). The only other time I seriously played the old Dooms again, about six or so years later, I again played through the trio in order, over a week or so. In that sense, I’ve never really been able to think of those three instalments as anything other than an exhilarating, scary and exhausting (but mostly scary and exhilarating) epic. If I *had* to separate the games and rank them, Doom 2 would be my favourite. I love the new creatures and weapons and to me it feels like Doom’s missing something until the super shotgun, Revenants etc show up. Oh, and thanks for the great videos, Mr FP. Enjoying the trip down a demonblood-stained memory lane. EDIT: Just wanted to add that I thought Downtown was cool. It’s weird, unfriendly, and otherworldly in a peculiar way (as opposed to the more obviously hellish levels like Erebus). Downtown feels uncanny, like a snatch of a dream, with shapes and architecture that’re sort of recognisable from the waking world but all smoothed off and undercut with wrongness... I loved the *height* of it and the swathes of open space. It might all have been due to accidents and limitations but it *works* for me, even so. I find that I’m at odds with your experiences of most of the Doom 2 levels, but I think your points are excellently argued and entirely valid. Even without a degree in Doom Science, your insights into what’s sound and savvy in Doom level design is... well, sound and savvy. But how these things are then experienced is of course subjective (as you recognise). I think the aesthetic, in a sorta ineffable way, means more for me (the aesthetic, that is, as divorced from a secondary - or maybe primary - ‘gamey’ functionality: y’know, stuff like certain textures being used to link areas or suggest pathways etc). There are weird cities or fortresses or arenas or catacombs or spirals (or one within another), sometimes coming in bizarre non-sequitur transitions in Doom 2, that I just kinda love. There’s this feeling of Lovecraftian non-Euclidean geometry or the hellish labyrinth of Hellraiser 2 that I find really intriguing and atmospheric, and which then hugely infused the gaming experience for me with loads of weird feels, making them scarier, more immersive and perturbing and finally more memorable. When I think of oldskool Doom and *that* strange vibe, it’s invariably Doom 2 I’m thinking of.
While i would say that arguably Doom 1 has the best level design, Hexen and Heretic are also objectively better than Doom 2 due to the latter having clunky, very trial and error and confusing level design and more engine problems than its prequel. Doom 2 aged poorly in comparison.
I am a massive Doom fan that loves every game in the series... but Doom 2 is definitely my least favorite. For every moment of awesome, exhilarating action, there's a moment that just absolutely pisses you off. The new monsters and Super Shotgun are amazing additions that really fleshed out the formula, but the level design is so spotty that those additions rarely have a time to shine. Doom 64, despite not having quite as many monsters, is the much better experience imo. I frickin love that game. Fantastic video! :D
I thought I was going to get some Decino level analysis of mechanics, monster AI, monster health anomalies and map logic flaws but what I got was subjective analysis of all maps where one map is categorized as good just "for a strange reason". Not sure why I sat through the video(-e)
I honestly never noticed when I picked up the Super Shotgun... I remember Underhalls because on one of my first attempts at playing DOOM II I hit the invisible secret level switch while looking for secrets. Well before I actually solved the level. (It wasn't until years later I realized that you could sprint, and that it was required to get through the window in the building near the invisible switch).
I love suburbs and the courtyard. Most of the other large open levels missed the mark but having these huge areas with the enemy and projectile count to match the space felt great. Suburbs as a kid on ultra violence felt like a proto-slaughter map to me. I prefer doom 1 levels slightly more on average, but goddamn did I get bored plinking pinkies and cacodemons to death with single barrel shotguns a while ago.
Doom 2 is one of my favorite games. When it first came out it pushed the envelope of what we knew from Doom and game designers back then had to take some risks and experiment. The landscape of gaming back then was wild and designers had to constantly innovate to hone their design skills. That resulted in an extremely original experience in Doom 2 that felt like the Doom world was going in a dark and exhilarating direction (we Doom gamers love the unknown). However, as gaming changed and our senses have evolved over the years, the level of quality to Doom 2 doesn’t quite hold up to the original. It’s an incredibly important contribution especially since it added our beloved new demons and super-shotgun along with some great levels. It just doesn’t seem as great as time has gone on. Doom 1 has really stood up to the rest of time in terms of level design and I love both games immensely. By the way, I’ve recently discovered this channel and I love the Doom content. Great job and keep it up! 👍🏻
love the vid, but that mod or whatever ur using to blend the pixels together and make the game look less pixelated is so hard to look at, its just an eyesore
if doom 2 had a episodic format like doom 1 I think the themes could somewhat be divided into 4 groups Techbases (pretty much any map before Map10) Urban (levels like Factory, Downtown, Industrial Zone, Suburbs, Tenaments) Medieval/Ruins (levels like Inmost Dens, Courtyard, Citadel) Tunnels to the depth of Hell (levels like The Chasm, Bloodfalls, Abandoned Mines, Spirit World, Living End)
Actually, one of the most brilliant and important aspects of Doom at the time was its multiplayer modes. In the mid '90s, before they were fairly standard, our family had a LAN, which provided us with endless hours of multiplayer Doom and Doom 2. Many of the weaknesses of level design apparent in the single player game are fixed when played as multiplayer. For example, those small, shorter level such the super secrect level are among the best deathmatch levels and those massive ones are fantastic cooperative mode levels.
The crusher is an awful example of a gimmick map well done. Generally you want to make sure the gimmick is both interesting *And* necessary to the level, not unnecessary.
They totally messed up the scale of the brick textures and windows in Doom 2. The weird scale is most evident in the Wolfenstein levels. I can’t understand it. The SS guards look like midgets.
While I know it is sacriliege to bring up in some circles I must give Brutal Doom's retexture work of downtown a lot of credit to make it look more like a cityscape.
8:01 idk, the hell knight being a literal reskin with different health makes it a little underwhelming, maybe not QUITE a throwaway, but definitely close
@@soulsphere9242 nah its totally fine. The ai is not that intelligent, then they're very easily to make infight, they barely move. So they need at least more health and firepower to balance the ai weaknesses out. And you see in slaughtermaps you need hundreds of them xD
Jesus Christ, please turn Texture Filtering off. And also maybe turn explosions vertical knockback off too so that Cacos don't go flying up from rockets.
"Instead of Civvie's twits and great sense of humor, you replace with some Austrailian twat."
So GManLives?
Every time he says "Doom Two(-e)", take a shot.
Are you trying to kill us?
@@hardcoredoom5892nnnnnnooooooo...
also new(-e) and Romero(-e)
You just heard an extra e? I heard about 7 vowels mashed together
It's like Banjo Kazooie
As a lifelong Doom enthusiast (40+ dude), I have trouble putting Doom2 in a critical perspective. It's like critiquing individual details of one's girlfriend in highschool. Impossible. Certain things have to be experienced and retained as a whole. The only thing I feel when I replay Doom2 two decades down the line is how *huge* everything was to us in the mid-90s, how every situation in the game, even the ones described as "bland", were totally unique, unprecedented, fearsome, and how they required an amount of improvisation and learning on the job that no younger player can even begin to imagine. We basically went from Sonic to Doom2 in the time it took to squeeze a pimple. Even the "bad" levels are tattooed in my brain, pixel by pixel, challenge by challenge. The Pit? Terrific! Downtown? Unforgettable. Monster Condo? One of the scariest memories... Of course now we have Sunlust and other gems of design, but Doom2, like Doom, did so many things right it's unfathomable. Eeeh, old man's rant over :)
Thanks for this comment. I couldn't agree and relate more, especially when mentioning the maps. Back in those days Doom2 was the one you played and I always thought it got more interesting after Trick and Traps.
I loved reading this comment.
Francesco Peri - Right on man! I could not have said it better myself. My obsession with Doom and Doom 2 began back in 1995 during my freshman year of college while I was living in the dorms. The original Doom series on PC was so epic and iconic that only those of us who were actually playing it back in the 90's can truly understand.
This!
Well said. Things escalated quickly in the 90s. We went from Wolf 3D in 92 to UT and Q3A in '99.
The Chasm is so ahead of it's time, after 27 years it's time still hasn't come.
I have heard, from the man himself, that it was based on a nightmare he had.
So maybe he just made his dream a little *too* real XD
I like Chasm. Its actually a cool idea with these thin ledges
Why do you come? 😎
xD
The Chasm was streets ahead!
"Dewm Teowee"
Right?
that texture filtering looks horrible dude
Trust no man who uses texture filtering in Doom.
being honest for me doom 2 kind starts felling boring around maps 9-13, while in the first doom i never felt bored in any map
Based
So, largely the "Episode 2: Urban Environments" vicinity of the game.
Exactly how I feel. I get to tricks and traps and I slowly start to lose interest.
I'm glad I share this opinion with someone, I thought it was just me!
@@AgainstTheeWickedlyMusic You are not alone at all, so it seems. I feel the same way
I love everything new added in doom 2. Archviles, pain elementals, revenants, hell knights and of course the super shotgun. Seriously, nearly everything added in doom 2 has become a series staple.
Imps , Cacodemons .I remember this monsters .
Oh god the pain elemental is still there?
I like everything but the pain elementals. Those can get thrown in the bin.
Wolfenstein ss
@@ELFanatic and the chaingunners?
The level "Gotcha" is named so because the level before hand makes it seem like you need all three keys top complete but only need two. I spent a good hour trying to get to the blue key which I could see just out of reach. Suddenly realised that they'd pulled a fast one on me and I didn't even need it. To then finish the level and see "Gotcha!". That's my thinking behind it anyways.
Actually, you only need the red key! Just glide through the space, and bingo!
@@strangevol5264he got got twice
I consider DooM to be better than the sequel solely because DooM II is more hit-or-miss with its maps.
It just gets old with how every map is the same grey and brown wall textures
@@mikeg2491 in hindsight i will say that they are both very repetitive
@@TahirTheProfessionalYapper To a point but the general look of Doom 1’s maps at least changed with every mission, the mars base vs hell maps look like it could be a different game.
@@mikeg2491 when i said repetitive i said you do not really want to play it often. this is a flaw i cannot point out when it comes to plutonia, the difficulty keeps you on edge and allows for good replayability to a certain degree
@@TahirTheProfessionalYapper fair enough
After Tricks & Traps, every map is full of tricks and full of traps. It gets really tricky and trappy.
Trick and traps are a scary level.
It's tricking and trappying time
@@Gian04*tricks and traps all over the place*
There's an interview with John Romero where he says your should make your first level last, so it is your best one, I think that philosophy of placing your "best levels" first may explain the "quality dip" seen in Doom level designs. I remember the logic being that the first level is the one to make an impression, and that the first levels are the ones that most people are going to play, it probably comes from the shareware model too
I believe Shigeru Miyamoto has also issued the same sentiment as well.
the quality dip comes because john romero designed first 7-8 maps and sandy designed the later ones.
@@toptier2800 wrong. The first map designed by romero, if you play them from level 1 onwards is level 11.
@@MatheusGomes-ej3mr Yeah I know, replying to 1 year old comment but top tier most certainly meant first Doom game, not the second one.
@@toptier2800 America McGee designed the majority of the earlier maps. Someone else already pointed out that Romero doesn't come in until map 11.
I don't really know why, but I love downtown and hate Industrial zone and just rush towards the secret exit.
Downtown is a great idea, the game is called Hell on Earth and it is one of the only levels that is "clearly" an actual place. The problem is that it really lacks a sense of direction, so much so they had to put a giant "go here" arrow on the ground. I loved it as a kid, even though i always got lost. These days ive learned how to beat it in like 5 minutes so it isnt so bad.
I feel like there's really something for everyone in doom 2, personally am a fan of of The Chasm for the tense atmosphere but find The Living End a bit too cramped for my liking
@@darrellgardner4561 yeah, I have the same feeling, I love the lack of direction on this map. Also I just prefer darker tone of this map.
@@IAmTyler100 I love The Chasm too. I also memed about it alot when people complained about DOOM Eternal platforming and that it doesn't belong in DOOM, I was like "hehe, do you remember The Chasm?"
I too hate Industrial Zone, mainly so on vanilla, as without mouse look, trying to snipe the hitscanners high up that you can't see is hell, and as a whole the map is pretty hitscan hell-lite. With mouse look I still don't like it and find it bland, but it becomes tolerable.
I'm pretty sure "Gotcha!" is called that because the very first thing you do in the level is shoot a zombie from behind - a sorta "gotcha!" moment, and if you're not paying attention, you'll soon after begin to be shot in the back yourself, double-gotcha'd!
I feel Doom 1 had more open ended maps to explore and because of that many of the map could even be ignored, while Doom 2 had somewhat more linear but more puzzly type maps, the problem is that due to the nature of doom 2 maps as the difficulty ramps up they become far more frustrating and even unfun, also it often feels like doom 2 had enemy placement ment to get you of guard and kill you with bigger mobs which can be frustrating too
This was shamefully also a problem with Plutonia, TNT and Master Levels as well.
Im very glad Heretic existed since it solved practically all the issues i have with Doom 2, and Hexen managed to make bigger maps but without making it clunky to navigate. Hell, i wouldnt even complain if someone thinks Heretic is better than Doom 1.
I must say this - Sandy's maps are amazing on technical level. Think about him as a toolmaker of sorts. He's got the editor and did with it things that didn't seem possible at first glance.
With this, he created the tools, the very concepts and ideas that could be later used by other map makers. That alone is quite astonishing.
I mean, come on - Tricks and Traps - the map that basically made Doom into a dungeon crawl, almost like in D&D.
Or Dead Simple along with American McGee - perhaps the most iconic Doom 2 map.
Sure, there are some weird things in Petersen's maps, some strange empty spaces, or not so great flow of some levels, like in Downtown - but looking back at it - seeing something like a city area was incredibly ambitious, and even if I don't exactly like this particular map, I simply must respect the effort and skill put in working around all the technical limitations. Because hey - we should not forget that technology was not what it is now and there was more than just engine limitations to consider at the time.
His secret level on doom 1 with the barons and cacodemons was where the company learned about monster I fighting, so he claims.
As I understand, John Carmack was SO mad at him for making Mt. Etebus, thus effectively forcing him to improve the engine and push the technology to its absolute limits to render such large spaces.
@@Lugbzurg If that's true, bless Sandy for doing so. We got a better engine because of it.
You also really can’t hold the maps in doom 2 to a too high standard considering how the game’s development looked like. id were trying to do a lot at once back then with quake’s engine and development. Having only 9 people in your company (if I’m correct) work on 2 projects at once with one helping out with another company’s games isn’t gonna create great results
@@D00000T Oh, true, but all things considered, maps in Doom and Doom 2 are in a very high standard.
At the time of Doom's release, this type of game was still very new, and PC gaming was on a far more primitive level than consoles at the time in terms of gameplay.
The gold standard of the... Proto FPS were clones of Wolfenstein, which were for all intents and purposes just glorified mazes.
Even PC platformers at this time were mostly massive mazes and collect-a-thons.
While Doom didn't completely deviate from this idea, there is a running theme to a lot of the maps, clearer variety. Much more custom and creative work than a simple re-arrangement of corridors.
I must be some kind of genetic aberration, but I really enjoyed The Chasm. It was so unique and interesting that I forgave its frustrating everything.
LOL, I've softened up on it a little too.
It's a speed runner's nightmare
I'm not a speedrunner or anything but I never had a problem with that level. I like the high ceilings and waterfalls of slime, it has a cool aesthetic. It's also not that hard to walk on the narrow platforms if you have any skill at all
By the standards of the time, The Chasm was a good game. Not sure why people are so hard in it. Yes it's not Quake but any young boy back then would be happy to get any new FPS let alone a true 3D one.
@@lordterra1377 The level not the game, lol
problem 1: they made the pain elemental a thing
Yes I hate that enemy. Such a waste of ammo.
I always figured that "Gotcha!" was named as such because the end of The Citadel looks like you're finally going through the Hell Gate, only to be teleported elsewhere for one final Earth map before actually going into Hell.
Thats a good point actually.
I'm surprised everyone likes The Crusher so much. The introduction of the Revenant feels underwhelming; he's in really tight quarters so you never get to see the full impact of his homing rockets. The Spider Mastermind feels absolutely wasted; she's such a badass and seeing her introduced so early and only to be killed as a joke is just irritating to me. Not to mention the rest of the level just feels... diffuse. There's no rhyme or reason to the design, which feels very unusual for American McGee.
On the other hand, I *loved* The Inmost Dens - I think it's the strongest level in the game. Really well designed aesthetically, plus the hitscan fights keep you on your toes.
even in the 90s those city levels were bad tbh.
Especially compared to duke3d
@@JeremyForTheWinwell Duke was on the much more capable Build engine a few years later. Doom 2 is just Doom 1 DLC
Your complaint about the Chasm is 100% valid because I also generally only save after level completion, but... an F6 quicksave is a technically "non-cheat" loophole around those little annoyances.
But the ledges at the exit are much wider. kill the souls first and then just go to exit. Its not that hard there^^
Save scumming is named as such for a reason
@@chonchjohnch Still isnt cheat if the game provides you with the save option (so no savestates).
I love how people are just NOW realizing how great the Casali bros. Were...
I’ve beaten Doom 1 multiple times. I’ve beaten Doom 2 once.
Damn, I tought I was the only one lol It's good I'm not alone
I'm guessing you didn't enjoy it or??
I also think the game heads downhill as soon as Tricks and Traps comes up. Downtown is why I think overall the levels in Doom II were a letdown. id did nothing with a demonic invasion of earth. The super shotgun and the new enemies all became classics, but the levels hold this game back. And looking at the levels one after another in this video show how they are overwhelming brown and drab.
Yeah, it's strange how Earth looks exactly like Phobos and Deimos. They didn't even bother with new textures. Doom 2 had potential, but it was just a cash grab in the end.
Sorry for a year later comment, but I feel exactly the same about Doom II. I finished Doom 1993 with GZDoom 4 times, 1 with just free aim and 3 with beatifull doom mod. Then a couple more times with other mods.
But just 3 months ago I was able to finish Doom 2 and I was just pushing it as an acomplishment for myself. I tried so many times to finish it, but its when Tricks and Traps hits that the game starts losing me.
The addition of the super shotgun and especially the new enemies is really nice, but the level design is either frustating or, most of the time, not fun at all.
Do you know any mappack megawad made by fans for GZDoom that keeps the game insteresting?
@@binho2224 A couple megawads I like are Whispers of Satan and Going Down.
@@contrabandresearch8409 thank you!
@@binho2224 You're welcome.
3:57 The reason it was an issue was because in Doom 1, though the level design was abstract it still FIT a progression of themes... That is until Thy Flesh Consumed came along and was just a medley of levels. E1 is a tech base. E2 is a tech base being consumed/overtaken by Hell. E3 is all out Hell, and where the levels start to become really abstractive and surreal. Even with E3 though, there was a sense of building towards the final conflict.
Doom 2 tends to meander about during the middle of the campaign. I do, absolutely, agree that Doom 2 would have benefitted from retaining the episode structure. Indeed, it basically breaks down into three parts in terms of narrative. Starport-City to Hellish dimensions, to the deeper Hell sections.
Monster Condo actually has a secret that only opens for 1 minute after the map starting
Doom 2's biggest contribution is arguably to the modding community, since it's basically Doom 1 with more enemies and items. Granted, I also feel very nostalgic for some of the levels.
Bro is talking about doom with texture filtration enabled, I cant just take his words seriously
Refueling Base is one of the maps Tom Hall created for Doom 1 but it wasn't put in to the final game. If you play the Doom 1 Alphas it's of the maps in there.
My earliest doom memory is so 90s. We used to only have the internet intermittently, whenever a free AOL or Compuserve trial cd (or even disk sometimes) fell into our hands. The whole family used to sit around the computer to "go on the Internet". I remember us all sitting around the monitor, and looking on a doom 2 custom levels site. There was a was that was like 5mb or something, much bigger than normal levels. Some of the internet free trials were a number of mb traffic, so we had a mini family meeting about whether I could download the level! Haha, the budget was approved, I downloaded it, and then right near the end, it being dialup internet, the download failed! Disaster. And we were soured against trying again. I never got to play the mysterious level, and still to this day it pops up in my mind, wondering what it was and what I missed out on. I have no idea the name of it, and no chance of ever tracing it, so its just a memory that will always be kicking around :P
What a beautiful memory
The only thing in this video I really disagree with is how critical you were of the 2 secret levels. Personally, I never saw them as particularly in-depth celebrations of Id's history...
rather I think it's more like the developers being like "haha what if we put a wolfenstein level in as a secret." They're like the original shitpost maps. And I'm cool with that.
still Lazy
To be honest, i think they were great inclussions, if not, even the highlight of the game, since they were more open than in the OG, and they are one of the few levels on the game that is open and lack any kind of shitty maze, with tons of enemies and action packed. The only thing that i dislike is that they lack other enemies from Wolfenstein 3d, but other than that, it was one of the few actually good designed levels of the game.
Monster Condo with its music and gory visuals are creepy as hell. Love that map and decades later, that maps still makes me uncomfortable when playing it
There is a library in Monster Condo.
@@ВиториоКлиментов
It was the best part.
Doom Tooey sounds like a fun game! Is it much different from Doom 2? xD
Its my favourite game exactly because of its experimental nature - it is a game that wanted to fuck with me and I appreciate that a lot. I love Doom 1 too, but its just that for me DOOM 2's design of gimmicks and playfulness and the middle finger at the player is what I like.
I agree. I have no clue why Maps 31 and 32 didn't have references to Fallout, Skyrim and GTA. 0/10 would recommend.
"Doom Twooi"
😂😂😂😂😂
I have always preferred the level design from the first Doom. I always felt like Doom 2 was trying to push the engine capabilities by creating larger areas that resembled real life structures such as cities. In my opinion this ended in disaster. The engine was better around surreal and abstract level design. The maps in Doom 1 were much more memorable. I liked both Romero and Petersen's level design in Doom 1. They took different approaches but both created memorable maps. Some notable ones by Petersen where, Containment area, Refinery, Deimos lab, House of Pain and Pandemonium. Notable ones for me by Romero are the whole first episode. Both worked togeather to give us different maps. The best looking maps were provided by Romero but the most creative and inovative maps wree provided by Petersen. I can not pick a favourite. They both brough unique talents to the table. Its a game from childhood that has always stayed with me. It scared me snd intrigued me at the same time. It is still fun to play today. Doom is a piece of gaming history. Even though Doom 2 introduced more features i was not as impressed with the level design for Doom 2.
"The shewting mechonics of dewm tewie ahr exahcly the saim as its preddacessah"
My favorite map: Monster Condo (also it has my favorite music)
My most hated map: The Spirit World (Try to guess why...)
I Can't belive that FP did not mention the biggest trap on "The Spirit World"... The player MUST shoot a wall so he can exit the level.
Yes, MANY people got stuck at this level because of this crap.
You see, the ganeplay has smoothed textures and thus i am allowed to ignore any points i do not agree with
(And i can now legally borrow your lungs)
for Icon Of Sin I would've preferred an entire new boss enemy instead of a wall texture..
same, i always thought it should've been a large baphoment-eque entity, with a body made of flaming brimstone n shit
well... technically the boss is behind the wall texture, but I see what you mean
Am I the only person in the whole goddamn world who likes when Doom is a metroidvania?
It sure feels like it
Yes you are, even with a vivid imagination I can't put those two together man sorry I have no idea why you come to that conclusion
I wish all the fan-made wads from the early BBS days were archived. Lots of super unique maps and challenges were created during that time. Some wads were just perfect for deathmatch. Also, if anyone ever comes across the "Stargate" wad that was based off the movie and was probably made around the 1993 timeline, give me a head's up! Who ever made that wad really had an eye for surreal art and the spirit of the movie.
My problem is that there not enough creative lighting usage, like flashing lights in doom 1's E1 levels, it doesn't have enough environmental hazards like crushers or barrels, or environmental visuals like the "donut" elevator thingy and the levels all feel so different.
Thumbs up for the Civvie 11 reference.
No mention of music. The atmosphere of Doom and Doom II was what I loved the most, and the music was a big part of that. The urgent soundtrack of Spirit World was amazing and frightening. Dead Simple was defined by the doomed metal sound that started as the level began.
One of the things I find so underwhelming about new Doom content, be it mods like Sunlust or the new Doom games since 2016, is the lack of atmospheric music. It makes everything feel so much less immersive when the music is only generic guitar or looping ambience.
Hopefullly this guy learned how to turn of pixel filtering since this video
wacky
You remind me of that Geekdom guy from UA-cam.
Oh, I had no idea that you were a Doom fan Geekdom. Awesome! Would you do some videos on the Doom lore if you are interested? 2016 and Eternal are especially ripe for some great videos.
I was not a fan of the level design in Doom 2. Doom 1 had much better levels.
It’s just a hell of a lot of brown re-used textures everywhere. I think doom 64 was way better as a spiritual sequel.
Doom 2's good maps are great, the bad maps are terrible. Overall it's lovely!
Tricks and Traps becomes way more interesting on a Pistol Start as you don't have the ammunition to deal with all pinkies and cacos together. You need to lure the pinkies to the cacos and have the bulk of them destroy each other. It's then also the first level where you need to deal with pinkies the berserker way because again, not enough ammo otherwise.
I've always preferred Doom 1 over 2 despite the improvements. Something about the levels just felt perfect in the original while in the 2nd one I kept feeling like it was all over the place and very inconsistent, as much as I loved it. Doom 1/Ultimate, and Doom 64 are forever my favorite games in the franchise. Great video, man.
26:27 My favorite Doom map of all time, because it actually resembles a town for once! And I love the shooting galleries of chain gunners and shotgunners.
Anyone interested in soft-locking the Doom game?
Step 1, go to level E1M8.
Step 2, leave as many pinkie monsters alive as possible.
Step 3, kill the barons.
Step 4, run outside as QUICKLY as you can and stand right next to the elevator you took to fight the barons.
Step 5, with any luck at least ONE pinkie demon will come dawn when the star goes down.
Step 6, go to the teleporter and activate the steps and trick the pinkie into going up it.
Congratulations. You're stuck on Mars' moon!
The history of Chasm's speedrunning is fun
You actually inspired me today. I've been getting out of my responsibilities as a member of the United Aerospace Armed Forces. I've beaten Doom 2 on PS1 Ultra-Violence a thousand times, but not yet on original PC difficulty with Arch-Viles.
I have only one question: texture filtering whhyy? : D
Okay, I have a second one: is this the way you normally talk (as in how you "pushing" certain words and consonants/vowels here and there) in everyday conversations? Not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just honestly curious for a while now if this is for achieving a certain theatrical effect or this is just the natural you.
Anyways, I agree most of your points, keep on playing this awesome game and keep on with the videos!
Cheers,
This is older Doom footage that had laying about, and I have since turned filtering off. As for the voice, definitely not lmao. I don't actively put anything on, but I think this is just my "reading voice". I script all my videos, and this is the result of that.
@@FPMedia_ Texture filtering: all forgiven. : D
Yup, also crossed my mind that it might be something like that. Scripting (at least to a certain degree) is a nice thing for most people and for most content.
Have you tried the keyword approach? I mean you are quite familiar with the topic you make a video/script about, so basically (almost, if not) all the knowledge is already in your head, so you use the script only to put order in the "chaos". Am I correct?
How about writing down some keywords and/or thoughts only, not the complete monologue, and come up with the rest on the fly? Might take a bit of practice and a little time to be accustomed to this, but it might give you a more natural flow after a while.
Or I'm just stupid and have no clue about this whole stuff. : D I don't want to dictate how you do things, it's just a thought, a friendly take on your content, nothing more; you might consider it or not. Would love to see your channel grow, especially since I don't think ~9k subs equals the effort you are putting in. : >
@@zatozatoichi7920 Thank you for the kind words, yeah my reading voice (aka my video voice) is very different to my normal voice lol. Without a script, I think my video quality would go downhill and if I did just use notes, I would have to edit the audio around a lot more. I'll probably have some videos where I have non-scripted parts (check my Quake 3 video as an example), but that's about it I think. I appreciate the comments :)
@@FPMedia_ Yep, it might take more effort (in terms of editing and/or practice) to circumvent the fact that you are not that comfortable with the notes just yet, but it might also pay off big time in the long run, because the more you become a natural presenter, the more easily you can grab the attention of the potential audience.
I think this is because the fresh viewers can identify with you more easily when they feel you are acting on a more casual/life-like manner while delivering your content; this is approaching professionalism from the other way around in my opinion.
But I lay off with my rant now, it would be the best if I could start my daily work, even though I'm not that motivated to do so. : D
Cheers,
@@FPMedia_ i know you dont have it on anymore but why did you play with it in the first place
Seriusly in genuinely curious why people play with it did you think it looked good? Or did you not know how to disable it initially? Maybe forgot? Really i want to know
I love the classic dooms more than the modern ones. As someone who mods the game and enjoys playing the mods and the amazing multiplayer servers from GZDOOM, it just like them more. I still like the modern dooms but I think I like the classics better
I disagree but okay!
@@emin166 I like your politeness, I’ve been bashed for this opinion by other doom players. Thank you my friend!
@@bucketzzz. No problem!
The classics were just objectively better games, better controls (incredible being very old games), unique artstyle, better level design, better soundtrack and more revolutionary overall. The new Dooms are as revolutionary as any other COD.......................................................................................................................................................................
So nothing.
Monster Condo was always my favourite map
👍
4:28: But that's just GManLives!
I have never seen anyone with the balls to critique Doom 2 besides saying they prefer the first game. Nice job man.
Thanks for playing with texture filtering. Now I am diagnosed with eye cancer.
I personally love Downtown, but that may just be nostalgia. When I first played Doom 2 as a kid, Downtown was so cool to me, and I still enjoy it
I played downtown for the first time and I was surprised that people hated it, it's my favourite level. I had no issue with the point of not knowing where to go because of the automap, and I felt like it gave the automap a much-needed purpose. Most people probably got lost in what to do next due to forgetting about the automap, which I did a first, but then I remembered about it and the level got a lot easier in knowing where to go, cooler and funner to play.
I love the Doom 2 maps. Best in series. Notably the urban levels 10-20. 10, 12, 13, 15, and 16 were awesome. Downtown might be my favorite Doom level ever. I wish we could have gone with a more realistic style in the newer Dooms. I even thought about scanning actual areas of real cities and making levels based on them.
Ive always loved suburbs slew of enemies enclosing and trying to psyche me out by teleporting in. Its honestly a crucial level for me, despite the murky mood
I personally do believe doom 2 to be a weak game. Doom was the first fps I really played (I played it about 4 years ago) and the game design is masterful! I was excited to play the sequel but I really disliked it. Design-wise Doom 2 seems like a mindless happy-go-lucky sequel. It can be fun, because it uses the same building blocks as the original, but the design is such a stepdown from the first game that it would baffle me if I didn't know how doom 2 was made very quickly (and if I remember correctly, mostly for money)
Its easy to be a armchair critic on Doom 2 20 something years later. Remember when this came out in 1994 it was new and unique. A lot of maps are experimental and level designers John Romero, Sandy Peterson and American McGee were trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t because it was that cutting edge. Its unfair to compare levels, because it kind of laid a foundation for future map designers to build on. You have to look at it as a whole package and that package is pretty awesome.
Another great video, my only real disagreement has to be on suburbs, It’s my second favorite Doom 2 level after courtyard.
When did this trend of emphasizing the last syllable of every word begin, cause I hear it in almost every youtube video now. Especially with the Brit/Aussie ones.
Tricks and traps is honestly one of my favorite maps. Infighting never gets old
True, I practically pissed my pants when I went through the door and saw around 50 of the tall demons all standing in rows, only to later realize I could kill them pretty easily by just letting them fight each other and taking out the stragglers using the invincibility orb in that room
Very interesting to watch. When I played Doom to death in the 90s, I never judged the maps by their level design, but just searched for ways to beat them on nighmare skill level. I liked the ones than can be beaten by consistent playing and feared the ones that were dependent on luck, since they often ruined multi level runs.
Dat map 09 music though! I find myself liking some parts of the Pit, but not so much others.
Shame that one of Doom 2's best songs got wasted on The Pit, but it did make the map more tolerable, and it would have been just hell to play through if it had something like The Focus' song on it.
Fortress of Mystery is epic if you encounter it the first time. It's so schocking to see being surrounded by barons in episode 2, together with the first time hearing the mouth for war midi.
This video actually provides very useful insight about game design and communicating with players.
I agree with the episodic argument. We could've had some nice and detailed lore and artwork
I first properly played the classic Dooms in the late 90s, after the games had been out a little while. I played the first two Dooms and then the Final Doom stuff straight through, as though they were one massive game (I had the complete box-set thing for the PC). The only other time I seriously played the old Dooms again, about six or so years later, I again played through the trio in order, over a week or so. In that sense, I’ve never really been able to think of those three instalments as anything other than an exhilarating, scary and exhausting (but mostly scary and exhilarating) epic.
If I *had* to separate the games and rank them, Doom 2 would be my favourite. I love the new creatures and weapons and to me it feels like Doom’s missing something until the super shotgun, Revenants etc show up.
Oh, and thanks for the great videos, Mr FP. Enjoying the trip down a demonblood-stained memory lane.
EDIT: Just wanted to add that I thought Downtown was cool. It’s weird, unfriendly, and otherworldly in a peculiar way (as opposed to the more obviously hellish levels like Erebus). Downtown feels uncanny, like a snatch of a dream, with shapes and architecture that’re sort of recognisable from the waking world but all smoothed off and undercut with wrongness... I loved the *height* of it and the swathes of open space. It might all have been due to accidents and limitations but it *works* for me, even so.
I find that I’m at odds with your experiences of most of the Doom 2 levels, but I think your points are excellently argued and entirely valid. Even without a degree in Doom Science, your insights into what’s sound and savvy in Doom level design is... well, sound and savvy. But how these things are then experienced is of course subjective (as you recognise). I think the aesthetic, in a sorta ineffable way, means more for me (the aesthetic, that is, as divorced from a secondary - or maybe primary - ‘gamey’ functionality: y’know, stuff like certain textures being used to link areas or suggest pathways etc). There are weird cities or fortresses or arenas or catacombs or spirals (or one within another), sometimes coming in bizarre non-sequitur transitions in Doom 2, that I just kinda love. There’s this feeling of Lovecraftian non-Euclidean geometry or the hellish labyrinth of Hellraiser 2 that I find really intriguing and atmospheric, and which then hugely infused the gaming experience for me with loads of weird feels, making them scarier, more immersive and perturbing and finally more memorable. When I think of oldskool Doom and *that* strange vibe, it’s invariably Doom 2 I’m thinking of.
While i would say that arguably Doom 1 has the best level design, Hexen and Heretic are also objectively better than Doom 2 due to the latter having clunky, very trial and error and confusing level design and more engine problems than its prequel. Doom 2 aged poorly in comparison.
I am a massive Doom fan that loves every game in the series... but Doom 2 is definitely my least favorite. For every moment of awesome, exhilarating action, there's a moment that just absolutely pisses you off. The new monsters and Super Shotgun are amazing additions that really fleshed out the formula, but the level design is so spotty that those additions rarely have a time to shine.
Doom 64, despite not having quite as many monsters, is the much better experience imo. I frickin love that game. Fantastic video! :D
I thought I was going to get some Decino level analysis of mechanics, monster AI, monster health anomalies and map logic flaws but what I got was subjective analysis of all maps where one map is categorized as good just "for a strange reason". Not sure why I sat through the video(-e)
Doom 2 is my favorite entry in the entire franchise, but this is still a great video
What about the reveille of TWO ENEMIES in Dead Simple? Did everyone forget how crazy it was to fight them on that map for the first time!?!?!?!?!
The super shotgun changed the game more than people give credit. Balance became difficult.
Me when I see the title: "But wait, Doom and problems don't go in the same sentence!"
*thinks about it*
"yeah okay"
I honestly never noticed when I picked up the Super Shotgun... I remember Underhalls because on one of my first attempts at playing DOOM II I hit the invisible secret level switch while looking for secrets. Well before I actually solved the level. (It wasn't until years later I realized that you could sprint, and that it was required to get through the window in the building near the invisible switch).
I enjoyed the video and your pronounciation: "Doom tooey"
I love suburbs and the courtyard. Most of the other large open levels missed the mark but having these huge areas with the enemy and projectile count to match the space felt great. Suburbs as a kid on ultra violence felt like a proto-slaughter map to me.
I prefer doom 1 levels slightly more on average, but goddamn did I get bored plinking pinkies and cacodemons to death with single barrel shotguns a while ago.
Doom 2 is one of my favorite games. When it first came out it pushed the envelope of what we knew from Doom and game designers back then had to take some risks and experiment. The landscape of gaming back then was wild and designers had to constantly innovate to hone their design skills. That resulted in an extremely original experience in Doom 2 that felt like the Doom world was going in a dark and exhilarating direction (we Doom gamers love the unknown).
However, as gaming changed and our senses have evolved over the years, the level of quality to Doom 2 doesn’t quite hold up to the original. It’s an incredibly important contribution especially since it added our beloved new demons and super-shotgun along with some great levels. It just doesn’t seem as great as time has gone on. Doom 1 has really stood up to the rest of time in terms of level design and I love both games immensely.
By the way, I’ve recently discovered this channel and I love the Doom content. Great job and keep it up! 👍🏻
love the vid, but that mod or whatever ur using to blend the pixels together and make the game look less pixelated is so hard to look at, its just an eyesore
Before watching I'll just say it's the best sequel and worst sequel ever.
if doom 2 had a episodic format like doom 1
I think the themes could somewhat be divided into 4 groups
Techbases (pretty much any map before Map10)
Urban (levels like Factory, Downtown, Industrial Zone, Suburbs, Tenaments)
Medieval/Ruins (levels like Inmost Dens, Courtyard, Citadel)
Tunnels to the depth of Hell (levels like The Chasm, Bloodfalls, Abandoned Mines, Spirit World, Living End)
Actually, one of the most brilliant and important aspects of Doom at the time was its multiplayer modes. In the mid '90s, before they were fairly standard, our family had a LAN, which provided us with endless hours of multiplayer Doom and Doom 2. Many of the weaknesses of level design apparent in the single player game are fixed when played as multiplayer. For example, those small, shorter level such the super secrect level are among the best deathmatch levels and those massive ones are fantastic cooperative mode levels.
I know this is a useless comment, but the way you say "2".... I can't 😖 2:55
The crusher is an awful example of a gimmick map well done. Generally you want to make sure the gimmick is both interesting *And* necessary to the level, not unnecessary.
They totally messed up the scale of the brick textures and windows in Doom 2. The weird scale is most evident in the Wolfenstein levels. I can’t understand it. The SS guards look like midgets.
28:21 I can never unsee that lol.
Wait, woah woah woah
Is that TEXTURE FILTERING!?
While I know it is sacriliege to bring up in some circles I must give Brutal Doom's retexture work of downtown a lot of credit to make it look more like a cityscape.
8:01 idk, the hell knight being a literal reskin with different health makes it a little underwhelming, maybe not QUITE a throwaway, but definitely close
yes. Even same fireball. Everything the same. I would've preferred an entire new enemy instead.
@@soulsphere9242 nah its totally fine. The ai is not that intelligent, then they're very easily to make infight, they barely move. So they need at least more health and firepower to balance the ai weaknesses out. And you see in slaughtermaps you need hundreds of them xD
Jesus Christ, please turn Texture Filtering off.
And also maybe turn explosions vertical knockback off too so that Cacos don't go flying up from rockets.