Great video. I'm going thru the EXACT thing. 2 years and I hate being a manager. I used to love my work, now I dread it daily. It's time to step back to what I loved doing. THANKS!
Thanks for sharing this insight Karo! I've had a similar experience of managing folks and if I ever had to go back to the corporate world, I'll probably want to be an individual contributor still :) Thank you for normalizing this!
That sounds so much like my experience. If someone is thinking of trying to be an EM, they should absolutely do it! Worst case, it will be a great adventure. Thanks for sharing, and it is great to hear you enjoy your new role!
Ah man, can I relate! I just stepped down from my engineering manager role as well just recently. I did learn a lot more because I had to manage a multi-national team, but it eventually came down to the fact that I prefer to develop apps and not necessarily administrate a team. So, to be completely honest with you, I know I can easily handle multiple developers, but I much prefer the business development and thus app development side of things.
Thanks for being so honest and opening about your experience Karo, it was really insightful! I was wondering if you don't mind sharing - what was the process/convo like to ask for and prepare for an EM role? What has it been like to come back to being an IC in the same company from a manager role?
Of course! 😊 Re EM process: I have regular catch-ups with my manager where we chat about my goals and career aspirations. During one of the early ones I mentioned I wanted to eventually become an EM and asked if I could shadow him in some meetings + what else I could do to prepare myself for the role. He then made sure to give me more project leadership opportunities where I'd need to lead the delivery of a feature that would usually involve 2 or more engineers + PM and a designer. I'd only get help if I asked for it so that I had a chance to figure things out by myself. We also have an internal career coach at Canva and she coached me through couple of programs like Unstoppable Me (eng leadership for women) and Coaching Essentials (general coaching workshops for new managers) and recommended a few books to read. At some point I took an intern and then he became my first hire :) Re getting back to IC: it was quite easy. I moved to another team (altho within the same group) and started working on a FE/graphics project with one other engineer. It needed some more clarity which I helped bring (my EM experience helped) while also having a chance to implement most of it 😁 So far it's been quite nice easing back into coding - smoother than I expected probably due to me working on personal projects during the break 🤓
That’s fantastic that you got a chance to be an EM and find how it worked for you. I’ve known quite a few people who have gone back and forth between management and IC roles (myself a couple times before I ended up on EM). In the end, it really is about finding your joy and what makes you excited to get the work done. For anyone who may consider a “people leader” role, my biggest insight is that your effectiveness moves from being about your technical abilities to being about how you build, grow, and utilize those abilities in others. And it’s hard to know how you truly feel about it without doing it first. While it’s common in starting EM roles (when you have a smaller team), I’m also not the biggest fan of the “coding manager” philosophy (though I know it’s a divisive topic). It makes it too easy for dueling priorities to make the EM feel like they cannot succeed, no matter how hard they work (borrowing from one will always cost the other). Everyone should have a “If I only got one thing done today…” for their role.
Thanks for your sharing of the thoughts of being as both roles. I'm surprised to hear that you're an introvert! I also had similar experience because I was not only an IC but also a scrum master. And I think it's my maximum capability and I would be drained if I was an EM lol.
Great video and I really love your honesty. Engineering management isn't for everyone. A lot of engineering managers I mentor were superstar engineers. One of the reasons they became managers was because they see management as a level up from an engineer role. But as you said, engineering management role is a linear and completely different role to an engineer role. Good on you realising what you really want in your career and for giving your best when you were a manager.
A lot of things i can relate to and I never really get insight into how other people approach Engineer Managing especially as they grow into the role, so this was super valuable
Thank your for sharing your experience and choosing what you felt was the best for you. Amazing video 🎉 Maybe I will be able to meet you in person soon, I applied to Canva in Sydney recently 😊
Feels like you become an EM without knowing what it takes to be an EM. It’s very obvious that you will not have more time to code etc. it feels to me like you took a blunt decision but not it’s not anything extraordinary that led you to take this decision to move back to Individual contributor.
Great video. I'm going thru the EXACT thing. 2 years and I hate being a manager. I used to love my work, now I dread it daily. It's time to step back to what I loved doing. THANKS!
Well done for mastering English to the point of absolute fluency. I was also surprised to learn you were Polish as your accent doesn't give it away!
Thanks for sharing this insight Karo! I've had a similar experience of managing folks and if I ever had to go back to the corporate world, I'll probably want to be an individual contributor still :) Thank you for normalizing this!
It's great we had a chance to try both pathways and understand which one we prefer! 🥰
That sounds so much like my experience. If someone is thinking of trying to be an EM, they should absolutely do it! Worst case, it will be a great adventure.
Thanks for sharing, and it is great to hear you enjoy your new role!
💯
Ah man, can I relate! I just stepped down from my engineering manager role as well just recently. I did learn a lot more because I had to manage a multi-national team, but it eventually came down to the fact that I prefer to develop apps and not necessarily administrate a team. So, to be completely honest with you, I know I can easily handle multiple developers, but I much prefer the business development and thus app development side of things.
Great video, thank you for sharing 😃
Thanks for being so honest and opening about your experience Karo, it was really insightful! I was wondering if you don't mind sharing - what was the process/convo like to ask for and prepare for an EM role? What has it been like to come back to being an IC in the same company from a manager role?
Of course! 😊
Re EM process: I have regular catch-ups with my manager where we chat about my goals and career aspirations. During one of the early ones I mentioned I wanted to eventually become an EM and asked if I could shadow him in some meetings + what else I could do to prepare myself for the role. He then made sure to give me more project leadership opportunities where I'd need to lead the delivery of a feature that would usually involve 2 or more engineers + PM and a designer. I'd only get help if I asked for it so that I had a chance to figure things out by myself. We also have an internal career coach at Canva and she coached me through couple of programs like Unstoppable Me (eng leadership for women) and Coaching Essentials (general coaching workshops for new managers) and recommended a few books to read. At some point I took an intern and then he became my first hire :)
Re getting back to IC: it was quite easy. I moved to another team (altho within the same group) and started working on a FE/graphics project with one other engineer. It needed some more clarity which I helped bring (my EM experience helped) while also having a chance to implement most of it 😁 So far it's been quite nice easing back into coding - smoother than I expected probably due to me working on personal projects during the break 🤓
@@KaroCodes That's awesome to hear. Thanks for sharing and glad you are enjoying your role again! :)
That’s fantastic that you got a chance to be an EM and find how it worked for you. I’ve known quite a few people who have gone back and forth between management and IC roles (myself a couple times before I ended up on EM). In the end, it really is about finding your joy and what makes you excited to get the work done.
For anyone who may consider a “people leader” role, my biggest insight is that your effectiveness moves from being about your technical abilities to being about how you build, grow, and utilize those abilities in others. And it’s hard to know how you truly feel about it without doing it first.
While it’s common in starting EM roles (when you have a smaller team), I’m also not the biggest fan of the “coding manager” philosophy (though I know it’s a divisive topic). It makes it too easy for dueling priorities to make the EM feel like they cannot succeed, no matter how hard they work (borrowing from one will always cost the other). Everyone should have a “If I only got one thing done today…” for their role.
So on point!💡💯
Thanks for your sharing of the thoughts of being as both roles. I'm surprised to hear that you're an introvert!
I also had similar experience because I was not only an IC but also a scrum master. And I think it's my maximum capability and I would be drained if I was an EM lol.
Ooo that's a great way to test if you're interested in more people-oriented role without fully committing to EM! 💡 Thanks for sharing 😊
Great video and I really love your honesty. Engineering management isn't for everyone. A lot of engineering managers I mentor were superstar engineers. One of the reasons they became managers was because they see management as a level up from an engineer role. But as you said, engineering management role is a linear and completely different role to an engineer role. Good on you realising what you really want in your career and for giving your best when you were a manager.
A lot of things i can relate to and I never really get insight into how other people approach Engineer Managing especially as they grow into the role, so this was super valuable
Thank your for sharing your experience and choosing what you felt was the best for you. Amazing video 🎉
Maybe I will be able to meet you in person soon, I applied to Canva in Sydney recently 😊
Love your energy! thanks for sharing!
great video.
manager is not linear progression, it's a totally different job.
What do you mean? Can you elaborate on it?
Feels like you become an EM without knowing what it takes to be an EM. It’s very obvious that you will not have more time to code etc. it feels to me like you took a blunt decision but not it’s not anything extraordinary that led you to take this decision to move back to Individual contributor.
Are you Polish? Same here. Did you quit Canva?
Great video So happy for you Karo.