Before release, the developers described Limbo as "Trial-and-Death". This doesn't invalidate your critique, as it's a matter of taste, but it is a deliberate design decision and not accidental. If you look back at Heart of Darkness, Heart of the Alien and Another World, the sheer variety of death of animations make up a substantial chunk of game content, so it makes sense that the developers would want you to see it. I think Inside and Limbo wanted to emulate that style of design.
But... seeing the gruesome and twisted ways a cinematic platformer kills you is half of the fun for me... It doesn't spoil my immersion at all, it adds to it. Having the kid in Inside die horribly on the first minute of the game told me the devs would not play around at all.
That ending with Somerville is my main problem with the game. How on Earth do they expect players to figure out that they were supposed to memorize the light color patterns those small ball alien robos were blinking during their gatherings throughout the game so they can get the good ending? And that good ending doesn't even have any closure. Like, "Oh, they just.. left like that? That's it?"
I've played Trek to Yomi and I wouldn't personally think of it as a cinematic platformer. I can see the similarity but it's more of a straight up action game in my opinion. Of the others you mentioned, White Shadows looks intriguing from the Steam page - I'll check it out. As for upcoming games in the genre, I have my eye on Planet of Lana, Selini and Full Void. Thanks for the comment and the recommendations!
Just stumbled on your channel and I'm thoroughly enjoying your work! Brilliantly made and very engaging. ♥ While it's a relatively shallow perspective, I find the forced deaths in Limbo/Inside to just be good old fashioned fun, akin to Happy Wheels gore or Mortal Kombat fatalities. Whether it's being mauled by a dog or torn to shreds by sharp objects, there's genuine artistry in each of those unique sequences, so if it means being knocked back a few seconds in order to ensure I see the animator's hard work, I'm all for that. I'd feel very different if they were generic messages or I lost something of gameplay value. Both games IMO intentionally play on morbid curiosity. After seeing my first death animation in Limbo, the rest of my time was a battle of two conflicting thoughts; I REALLY don't want to die here - I REALLY want to know what happens if I die here. In the example of the Inside dog, I actually had the thought after escaping the first one "ah man I wonder what would've happened if it got me". I was genuinely thankful the second one force-fed me that answer without having to replay the whole game. You see something cool, you learn the single bit of info you need, you move on. No harm done. Of course there is still valid discussion to be had around being tricked into an insta death, but I don't think it applies near as much to these games since everything is very much intended to be a spectacle, including the deaths. IMO the artistry is more than a valid reason for those little moments to exist. All the best with your channel dude! Back to the binge I go. ^_^
I can understand that position, and I agree completely that morbid curiosity is a major motivator in both games. For me, however, the loss of immersion that comes from failing and finding out how meaningless death is really takes away from the atmosphere and ends up being a negative. I also think there's a lot of repetition in the death animations that makes for a less interesting spectacle - there are multiple points where dogs can eat you, and being grabbed by the siren or blown up by the soundwave look the same regardless of where you are. Thanks for the comment and I appreciate the kind words - I hope my other videos can give you some interesting things to think about too.
I don’t feel a loss of immersion from these deaths. I think of them more as alternate endings. They increase the feeling of accomplishment at the end because you know how many iterations it took you to actually make it through this deadly world and that the odds were against you.
Dayum, you put Somerville in the 'Don't bother'-tier, that feels a bit harsh. One persons tedium is anothers persons relaxation i guess. I am a very patient person though. Or maybe my brain ignores the annoying stuff and only retain the good memories from the game after completion idk haha. Taking away the controls is a big no-no though, I agree with that. I'm playing Ratuz at the moment. Oh boy, sure is a lot of dying. I think it's the obsessive-compulsive in me that actually enjoys it, not for everone. But anyways always nice to see someone talking about cinematic platformers 👍.
Seeing how they have a lot in common with walking simulators, it's definitely quite interesting looking into all these kinda stuff. Both of em show the best of atmosphere and interest in the environment to drive players as possible in a special way no typical game can even with the most of simple controls, esp more than the David Cage like cinematic "games" riddled with QTEs or ones that even have lore and story brought to life, only to be relegated as a framing device for gameplay, and then watchu mention at 8:00 ofc. I know the name walking sim is rather an unofficial term (initially pejorative) to stuff like Dear Esther, Firewatch, Edith Finch, P.T., Stanley Parable, ect., and I do be a fan of em despite massive stigmatization they have. Don't get me wrong, there are crappy walking sims (mostly passionless ones that do be uncommon, but seemingly most P.T. clones seem to be the case of popping up in that kinda category) out there as do good ones, but it's sad the latter is ignored simply because of people not willing to try things out of their comfort zone and it shows. That's what got me into modding and game development as well with all these stuff being experimented with and the potential they have. Sorry if this be a bit rather unrelated to the video, it do be kinda a vent on the ignorance of people out there. Aside that, it's definitely interesting seeing how you talk through about the gameplay aspect of cinematic platformers, I wouldn't have thought of you having some qualms about some of the aspects these games have. Funnily enough the ones, as say the walking sims, definitely avoided this problem, although interestingly results rather a win-lose situation when taking away death or the need for trial and error, which is what I think partially resulted in its hatred from some people. I can agree that sure it can have its problems and should say give better hints, like akin to Valve's game design principles and as you mention with Little Nightmares, sometimes it prob won't bother me too much some cases. Otherwise there is Amnesia: The Dark Descent's approach to death by deliberately having no enemies spawn again until you move to a certain section, making it less frustrating and repetitive in order to make the scares all the more effective again, which woulda helped this well if I can give suggestions to that. On a side note, I feel like trying ICO now that you mentioned it, def looks like a unique fusion of the PlayStation survival horror stuff (Silent Hill, Parasite Eve, and Resident Evil as examples ofc) with as said (cinematic platformers ofc), considering it looks like a natural evolution on the fixed camera angles from the former's, bit kinda RE: Code Veronica a way.
As I was thinking about your video I realized that I think The Last of Us is a cinematic platformer. It has all the elements. A but more action but you can stealth through most of it and even when you are spotted it often turns into a chase sequence.
I like Limbo and I love Inside, but to me Little Nightmares kinda surpassed Playdead's games. Aside from the gameplay being more fair and forgiving, which leads to less reloads, I also felt like Little Nightmares setting was more detailed and thought-through, which led to more interesting set pieces and cinematic moments, and their variety. The second game is especially impressive in that regard. And I think it also got an upper hand when it comes to narrative and the characters, it's still heavily shrouded in mystery, but you have a cast of characters with clear roles and the protagonists show more personality, sometimes surprising you in certain story moments. Great video, as always!
With this type of game, I think the atmosphere and visuals play a big role in how much you enjoy them, which means that it mostly comes down to personal preference which one you like best. I enjoyed Little Nightmares, and the chapter where you have to avoid being eaten by the 'guests' was a really memorable experience, but I have to give it to Inside just for the pure shock value of the final 15 minutes. Outside of those 'experience' moments, both games have an almost identical set of flaws in terms of gameplay. Thanks for the comment and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!
@@Erumore Overall I agree, but I think when it comes to breaking immersion with too much death, in Little Nightmares it comes from either being confused in a moment of action with what to do, which sometimes is on the game, sometimes is on the player, or failing in mechanical execution which can be a bit too tight in some cases, but otherwise I find that Little Nightmares tends to telegraph danger miles away and usually gives you a decent chance at escaping it. So, while it's still easy to die there, I never felt like the game actively tries to kill you with "gotcha" moments like Inside or Limbo does. Also, I recommend trying the sequel too if you haven't, I think it's a bit worse than the first one when it comes to dying and reloading, but at the same time pushes the bar on having more great set pieces.
I think you nailed down why I've always been interested in these games, but have never actually gotten around to trying them. It's difficult to balance actual gameplay with scripted narrative moments, so I'd rather play a "pure" platformer (like Celeste) over a "cinematic" one. I suppose the closest I've played would have to be the escape sequences in Ori, but at least you always have to complete those in one big seamless run, and the music doesn't completely reset between deaths, so the flow keeps going.
There's definitely something to be said for the tightly scripted experience you can get from a cinematic platformer, but you won't see much in the way of interesting gameplay and their replay value is close to zero. Still, the great ones really are worth your time and I would highly recommend ICO if you haven't played it (and Inside too, though this video will have spoiled a lot of it). I'm actually not a huge fan of the Ori games - I don't love the painted visuals and the gameplay felt a bit shallow to me, but I still took the time to 100% both so there's a solid pair of games in there at least. Thanks for the comment as always!
Before release, the developers described Limbo as "Trial-and-Death". This doesn't invalidate your critique, as it's a matter of taste, but it is a deliberate design decision and not accidental. If you look back at Heart of Darkness, Heart of the Alien and Another World, the sheer variety of death of animations make up a substantial chunk of game content, so it makes sense that the developers would want you to see it. I think Inside and Limbo wanted to emulate that style of design.
But... seeing the gruesome and twisted ways a cinematic platformer kills you is half of the fun for me... It doesn't spoil my immersion at all, it adds to it. Having the kid in Inside die horribly on the first minute of the game told me the devs would not play around at all.
That ending with Somerville is my main problem with the game. How on Earth do they expect players to figure out that they were supposed to memorize the light color patterns those small ball alien robos were blinking during their gatherings throughout the game so they can get the good ending? And that good ending doesn't even have any closure. Like, "Oh, they just.. left like that? That's it?"
Trek to yomi, White Shadows, Unto the End, Deadlight, and Song of Iron are among some recent cinematic platformers that offer varied gameplay.
I've played Trek to Yomi and I wouldn't personally think of it as a cinematic platformer. I can see the similarity but it's more of a straight up action game in my opinion. Of the others you mentioned, White Shadows looks intriguing from the Steam page - I'll check it out. As for upcoming games in the genre, I have my eye on Planet of Lana, Selini and Full Void.
Thanks for the comment and the recommendations!
@@Erumore planet of Lana, full void, and replaced are cinematic platformers I’m looking forward too as well.
Just stumbled on your channel and I'm thoroughly enjoying your work! Brilliantly made and very engaging. ♥
While it's a relatively shallow perspective, I find the forced deaths in Limbo/Inside to just be good old fashioned fun, akin to Happy Wheels gore or Mortal Kombat fatalities. Whether it's being mauled by a dog or torn to shreds by sharp objects, there's genuine artistry in each of those unique sequences, so if it means being knocked back a few seconds in order to ensure I see the animator's hard work, I'm all for that. I'd feel very different if they were generic messages or I lost something of gameplay value.
Both games IMO intentionally play on morbid curiosity. After seeing my first death animation in Limbo, the rest of my time was a battle of two conflicting thoughts; I REALLY don't want to die here - I REALLY want to know what happens if I die here. In the example of the Inside dog, I actually had the thought after escaping the first one "ah man I wonder what would've happened if it got me". I was genuinely thankful the second one force-fed me that answer without having to replay the whole game. You see something cool, you learn the single bit of info you need, you move on. No harm done.
Of course there is still valid discussion to be had around being tricked into an insta death, but I don't think it applies near as much to these games since everything is very much intended to be a spectacle, including the deaths. IMO the artistry is more than a valid reason for those little moments to exist.
All the best with your channel dude! Back to the binge I go. ^_^
I can understand that position, and I agree completely that morbid curiosity is a major motivator in both games. For me, however, the loss of immersion that comes from failing and finding out how meaningless death is really takes away from the atmosphere and ends up being a negative. I also think there's a lot of repetition in the death animations that makes for a less interesting spectacle - there are multiple points where dogs can eat you, and being grabbed by the siren or blown up by the soundwave look the same regardless of where you are.
Thanks for the comment and I appreciate the kind words - I hope my other videos can give you some interesting things to think about too.
I don’t feel a loss of immersion from these deaths. I think of them more as alternate endings. They increase the feeling of accomplishment at the end because you know how many iterations it took you to actually make it through this deadly world and that the odds were against you.
Dayum, you put Somerville in the 'Don't bother'-tier, that feels a bit harsh. One persons tedium is anothers persons relaxation i guess. I am a very patient person though. Or maybe my brain ignores the annoying stuff and only retain the good memories from the game after completion idk haha. Taking away the controls is a big no-no though, I agree with that.
I'm playing Ratuz at the moment. Oh boy, sure is a lot of dying. I think it's the obsessive-compulsive in me that actually enjoys it, not for everone.
But anyways always nice to see someone talking about cinematic platformers 👍.
Inside felt like a A24 movie definitely one of my favorite games of all time
Seeing how they have a lot in common with walking simulators, it's definitely quite interesting looking into all these kinda stuff. Both of em show the best of atmosphere and interest in the environment to drive players as possible in a special way no typical game can even with the most of simple controls, esp more than the David Cage like cinematic "games" riddled with QTEs or ones that even have lore and story brought to life, only to be relegated as a framing device for gameplay, and then watchu mention at 8:00 ofc.
I know the name walking sim is rather an unofficial term (initially pejorative) to stuff like Dear Esther, Firewatch, Edith Finch, P.T., Stanley Parable, ect., and I do be a fan of em despite massive stigmatization they have. Don't get me wrong, there are crappy walking sims (mostly passionless ones that do be uncommon, but seemingly most P.T. clones seem to be the case of popping up in that kinda category) out there as do good ones, but it's sad the latter is ignored simply because of people not willing to try things out of their comfort zone and it shows. That's what got me into modding and game development as well with all these stuff being experimented with and the potential they have. Sorry if this be a bit rather unrelated to the video, it do be kinda a vent on the ignorance of people out there.
Aside that, it's definitely interesting seeing how you talk through about the gameplay aspect of cinematic platformers, I wouldn't have thought of you having some qualms about some of the aspects these games have. Funnily enough the ones, as say the walking sims, definitely avoided this problem, although interestingly results rather a win-lose situation when taking away death or the need for trial and error, which is what I think partially resulted in its hatred from some people. I can agree that sure it can have its problems and should say give better hints, like akin to Valve's game design principles and as you mention with Little Nightmares, sometimes it prob won't bother me too much some cases. Otherwise there is Amnesia: The Dark Descent's approach to death by deliberately having no enemies spawn again until you move to a certain section, making it less frustrating and repetitive in order to make the scares all the more effective again, which woulda helped this well if I can give suggestions to that.
On a side note, I feel like trying ICO now that you mentioned it, def looks like a unique fusion of the PlayStation survival horror stuff (Silent Hill, Parasite Eve, and Resident Evil as examples ofc) with as said (cinematic platformers ofc), considering it looks like a natural evolution on the fixed camera angles from the former's, bit kinda RE: Code Veronica a way.
As I was thinking about your video I realized that I think The Last of Us is a cinematic platformer. It has all the elements. A but more action but you can stealth through most of it and even when you are spotted it often turns into a chase sequence.
I like Limbo and I love Inside, but to me Little Nightmares kinda surpassed Playdead's games. Aside from the gameplay being more fair and forgiving, which leads to less reloads, I also felt like Little Nightmares setting was more detailed and thought-through, which led to more interesting set pieces and cinematic moments, and their variety. The second game is especially impressive in that regard. And I think it also got an upper hand when it comes to narrative and the characters, it's still heavily shrouded in mystery, but you have a cast of characters with clear roles and the protagonists show more personality, sometimes surprising you in certain story moments.
Great video, as always!
With this type of game, I think the atmosphere and visuals play a big role in how much you enjoy them, which means that it mostly comes down to personal preference which one you like best. I enjoyed Little Nightmares, and the chapter where you have to avoid being eaten by the 'guests' was a really memorable experience, but I have to give it to Inside just for the pure shock value of the final 15 minutes. Outside of those 'experience' moments, both games have an almost identical set of flaws in terms of gameplay.
Thanks for the comment and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!
@@Erumore Overall I agree, but I think when it comes to breaking immersion with too much death, in Little Nightmares it comes from either being confused in a moment of action with what to do, which sometimes is on the game, sometimes is on the player, or failing in mechanical execution which can be a bit too tight in some cases, but otherwise I find that Little Nightmares tends to telegraph danger miles away and usually gives you a decent chance at escaping it. So, while it's still easy to die there, I never felt like the game actively tries to kill you with "gotcha" moments like Inside or Limbo does.
Also, I recommend trying the sequel too if you haven't, I think it's a bit worse than the first one when it comes to dying and reloading, but at the same time pushes the bar on having more great set pieces.
ico is peako
I think you nailed down why I've always been interested in these games, but have never actually gotten around to trying them. It's difficult to balance actual gameplay with scripted narrative moments, so I'd rather play a "pure" platformer (like Celeste) over a "cinematic" one. I suppose the closest I've played would have to be the escape sequences in Ori, but at least you always have to complete those in one big seamless run, and the music doesn't completely reset between deaths, so the flow keeps going.
There's definitely something to be said for the tightly scripted experience you can get from a cinematic platformer, but you won't see much in the way of interesting gameplay and their replay value is close to zero. Still, the great ones really are worth your time and I would highly recommend ICO if you haven't played it (and Inside too, though this video will have spoiled a lot of it). I'm actually not a huge fan of the Ori games - I don't love the painted visuals and the gameplay felt a bit shallow to me, but I still took the time to 100% both so there's a solid pair of games in there at least.
Thanks for the comment as always!