I appreciate this meaty video 😳 It’s interesting how much Enneagram origin theories can differ. I had to take some notes just to keep up. Notes: Relationists 2 - Toward people 5 - Away from people 8 - Lead people Pragmatists 3 - Best of ability in role 6 - Security 9 - Comfort Idealists 1 - Ideal world of their criteria 4 - World lives up to ideals of substance 7 - World free of pain and suffering Rejection (2, 5, 8) 2 - Felt rejected by caregivers, so doesn’t express own needs to avoid rejection 5 - Rejected intrusive caregivers, protect self with emotional distance 8 - Felt controlled by a caregiver, so identified with other independent caregiver Attachment (3, 6, 9) 3 - (Recognition) Got praise from mom and can nurture self 6 - (Stability) Aligned with Dad and can protect self 9 - (Independence) Connects with both caregivers Frustration (1, 4, 7) 1 - Unrealistic expectations, Autonomy, Disappointed with Protector, becoming them 4 - Intense introspection, Validation, Disappointed with lack of acceptance from both caregivers 7 - Closure to idea/experience is limiting, Opportunities, Nurturer didn’t give enough
I am 6, but I would describe myself as an idealistic person, rather than pragmatic. Why can't "idealistic/pragmatic/relational" be a separate parameter, similar to instinctual stacking?
2:27 example of groupings 3:32 harmony triads: 3 groups of 3 3:39 1st group relationalist: 2,5,8 3:49 2nd group: pragmatist: 3,6,9 3:55 3rd group: idealist: 1,4,7 4:00 "relate to the world through their connections" 5:28 5: 7:00 8 type: 8:00 Pragmatist: 3,6,9. Seeking their place in the world. They are seeking their place in relationships 8:28 3: 8:58 6: 9:14 9:
As a 9w1, I can relate to both the attachment and frustration types. I get along well with my parents for the most part. But in the back of my head I remember being frustrated and disappointed with my Dad as a kid when he didn’t defend me when I would get into arguments with my Mom. As a 9, I really dislike conflict and I would tend to suppress my feelings and stay quiet. So usually my Mom would get her way without understanding my side of things. Now as an adult, I usually keep the peace with my parents by being responsible and doing the right thing. It made me a better person but now I am my worst inner critic. Now I parent and call them out when they make mistakes lol They usually listen to me though since they say I’m a “woman of integrity”. Very interesting stuff Dr. Tom Lahue!
ua-cam.com/video/Rtfp_0-3hiQ/v-deo.html have you seen this talk? I saw this comment and thought about it. Really amazing job. I am balanced wings and I would tell you to rely on the soft 8 as it seems you do. Which is say when you get angry: "I don't blame anyone, I am just angry right now, and saying it made me calm." The moment you say you're angry, it will all fade away and you'll be clearheaded. Then when calm and quiet say "I love you, and felt my personal justice crossed by this triggering anger, is there a way we can fix this?" If this sounds weirdly phrased, well it's the best I got lol. Good luck :D :D Perfectionism I go "Would this be ok if someone I cared about did? And then troubleshoot: If unacceptable, ask for help, If acceptable then self- advocate." and then go "No matter what you do, I love you. Because you're just a person too. and this isn't helping anyone."
it's interesting to me to learn abt the different types because ive had the same situation as you when i was younger but as a more assertive type (a 7) i would always fight back in those situations and point out what i thought was unfair loud and clear! its also interesting to hear your perspective as a 9w1 because i love 9's, and my best friend is a 9w1 too.
Thanks so much Tom, very insightful. 24:00 As a Five I wholeheartedly agree that even - I'd even say especially - the good nurturing from parents (and kindergarten teachers) can also observed as an intrusive force. I hated it and as a very independent child I perceived it as not enough respect for my own competence. As a grown-up woman I'm not sure how one can successfully do motherhood with this view, and it scares me.
As far as you being worried about people having a problem with you not knowing enough or not sharing what you do know in the best way.....I think you should refer to your type 5 videos. You said they have a tendency to lock themselves in their room, study something intently and never really feel like they have studied enough to share their knowledge with others. You advise them to realize when good enough is good enough. It's ok for you to do that too even though you aren't a 5. I'm glad you haven't let this worry keep you from making these videos because you have been a big help to a lot of people.
Thank you for sharing this precious information! Many of the points you've shared literally gave freedom in the areas that I was praying about!! Thank you for making the most of social media that God have gifted us to make loving one another easier! Thankful for the gift and heart that God has given you and your ministry.
Love that the enneagram has depths to be explored for decades. Thank you for your clarity in sharing and the focus you hold. Minute 34:30ish - nailed it.
yes, let's "imagine".... lol :)) That's so interesting, the idea that the message we "think" our cargivers were trying to communicate with us, and how the way we related to them helped "lock in" our enneagram type. I've actually wondered a lot about this because I don't feel I ever "settled" on a particular "message" as a child...I was mostly confused, as there didn't seem to be any generalized coherent message...and I was rather just constantly taking in more and more "data" in the hopes that it would all culminate into some kind of "gestalt" at some point (I think, due to the introverted intuition that is my dominant cognitive function as an INFJ...and it actually HAS now, but it took 50 years!)....And yeah, I suppose you could say there was already a "type 5 lense" that was causing me to "hoard data!" as a child but honestly all I remember is being confused and really wanting to understand my entire family dynamic. It made no sense to me and I felt I "needed" to get it right for my own ability to navigate it effectively. I don't remember being "5 like" at all when I was a child...and I have wondered more than once if the general chaotic nature of my family is what brought my "5ness" about. I mean, there was plenty of loss, invasion & scarcity...and I think I may have "learned" to be a five as my own response. And here, again, there may have been some "innate tendency" that made this "solution" feel like the best fit for me so....Chicken?...Egg?....Most probably a bit of both along, possibly, with many other factors...such as my oldest sister (not that much older) basically taking on the primary "caregiving" role (and a bit invasive about it) and actual parents just not really being very tuned in to needs. I suppose it doesn't really matter "why" I'm a 5, although it's interesting to try and piece it together. "5ness" worked for me...and continues to....and I think there are bits of some of the other types within me that seem to crop up when I'm not feeling the need to retreat from anything and I've managed to meet all my own needs! lol :))
I think you do an AWESOME Job! Nothing fits us 100%, 100% of the time. If it doesn't fit it doesn't fit. If it stings, pay attention! Thank you for doing what you are doing. Share your videos and channel often. If they know me at all I always tell them to start with you describing the 8. That pretty much peaks there intrest as to how did this guy nail your personality by like 90-95% when he has no idea who she is. Then I tell them to watch your descriptions of each. Sorry this turned out very long to say keep doing what God is leading you to do! It is OBVIOUS He is in even you style of teaching it. Thank you again. God Bless you and your Family. ❤
I'm an eight and it's true my parents both mom and dad always told me what to do and my mom kind of manipulate me to think the exact way like she is, but nooo I won't. Actually I'm lacking of both nurturing and protecting side because I think all their love are just for my little brother, so I start to put up guard and hardening my heart so they don't need to worry about me. I grew up to be unbreakble older sister who will protect her little brother with all cost. I can't percieve all the thing my parents did to keep me safe and alive as a love because I still need to fight my way out there without them to keep me stand
Great video as usual, Tom. You do a great job helping people and I thank you for that. Just let me say something. I'm a 4, and let's speak the truth and not be politically correct, because that doesn't do any good: most parents destroy their children's lives. These parents of course were children one day, so my aim here is not to blame anyone, but simply clarify things. I'll repeat it again: most parents are the reason why we are broken, and the rest is bullshit. That's precisely why we must take responsability, which by the way, as a rather unhealthy 4, I find it so hard to do.
Hey, love your channel! In case you're responding to comments, I wanted to ask. Is it still 7-like to be "go go go" but more mentally than physically? I feel like I am just constantly keeping my brain running quickly: researching things, investing in a hobby like drawing or reading, calling someone on the phone, something of that sort. But for most of my life I haven't been as much of a person who wants to go rock climbing or scuba diving every weekend LOL. My "go go go" is definitely there, and while sometimes its with physical activities, it's mostly in my head. So yeah, just wondering if my situation is still likely for an enneagram 7 :)
Dr Tom this video was BRILLIANT. 5w6 here and happy with all I heard - it blends in and fills gaps and adds jisaw puzzle pieces to what I have learnt so far. I am also an Identical Twin so can 100% Agree with you on your comments. She is a 4w5. She had as much impact on my development into a 5w6 as my Parents 4w3(?) Dad and 8w7(?) Mum. My Twin Sister and I have sought insight into multiple birth members development for some time and I think this may be the best explanation I have found. While some relationship differences occur between personalities our Parents were the same people for both of us at the same time so Why the differences in us? Anyway - Thanks Heaps!!! Love your Teaching and find it very helpful.
Tom I love you 😂 But yeah I'm a 1 and my parents were shit. Your videos are sometimes just too accurate. Good job, thank you for taking the time and sharing all this 💝 I cant get enough.
Message was as a child... Fend for yourself. And no one cares. I did raise myself..didn't trust any adults around me. I was abused on many levels. I am also the archetype orphan. But my father was a orphan and Holocaust survivor. So with inherited trauma. Was the scapegoat/black sheep. I was born after the death of a sibling. I ended up splitting from a large highly dysfunctional family. My parents died some years ago. . So i am a adult orphan. A narcissist marriage of 20 years also. I am not looking for sympathy. Its what made me. Stronger wiser and better for it. And have healed greatly the last 7 years. I have always been different. Spiritual. A mystic/shaman type. Listening to your videos has been good.
As an example of a type 6 kid 'copying' some assertive bossy figure in the household, my youngest sister is way younger than the rest of us as in we're all adults & she's the only one who's still a kid, & she has this really cute worship of the next-older sister (also a 6) & even affectionately calls her 'Your Majesty' & always listens to her, tries to be cool like her etc, it's like a superhero and their sidekick. Honestly, I'm glad that she's copying Isabel, because Isabel is a reasonable discerning person & our father is useless.
Oh, this is so fun!😊 I love to analyze my friends and relations (and myself) I can totally see this with my sister and me. I was 3 when my sister was born, and she was sick, with a rare issue that was a mystery for a long time and then still a big deal to treat for several years (now she's good❤) I, naturally, got booted out of my parents spotlight in a more extreme way than most older siblings are. I was a daddy's girl and spent most of the time he was home being with him. My sister, naturally, was with my mom more. However, she ended up with a very similar job and skills as my dad. I ended up as a 7, she as a 6. (I'm pretty sure my dad is a 9 and my mom is a 4) I'm sure it's more complicated than that, as my grandmother played a huge role in raising me, and my sister and I had a big impact on each other as well. But it's really interesting! I'm diagnosing my husband's siblings now.😅 I worry a lot about my kids and what messages they're getting. I'm plenty intrusive as a 7, maybe too much sometimes, although I am not very overbearing with safety things if they can convince me that the fun is worth the risk (other moms think I'm neglectful sometimes, but to me it seems better for them to get physically injured than getting their spirits stifled), and my husband's a 5 and, to me, seems way too standoffish with the children. I wonder how they'll turn out. I don't want them to have ANY of the "childhood wounds" I hate the very idea!😢
It's fascinating how family dynamics shape who we become! Your insights into your sister's journey and your own are really thought-provoking. It's wonderful to hear how you're reflecting on your children's experiences too!
Thank you for these videos. I am still figuring out my type (6? 4?) but each thing I read or listen to about the Enneagram gives me more information. Truly I can identify with many though not all of the groups. Re: parents - I think that most do the best they can given their circumstances, background, their own issues, how well they know themselves and how they were raised. That was true for me anyways. And regardless of how we are raised we have to accept ourselves for who we are.
Ahhhh I always learn so much from your videos and yes, thank you so much for doing all of the reading for me because I yearn for knowledge but I don’t find it in books! Anyways - the bit about the siblings growing up and having two very different perspectives about their caregivers is dead on in my family. My brother and I are three years apart and grew up with the same parents in the same house and characterize our parents pretty differently, I (a 9 probably), much more favorably than my brother who might be a 5 (not quite sure). Great insights on all of this as always and thank you for sharing 💖
My partner is 1 with a 4 fix. Understanding the frustration group has probably encouraged me to be more patient and not blame myself for his unhappiness (with vacations, with my behaviors, with where we live, with pretty much anything lol). When a type 1 tells you he feels better in your relationship because he learned you're not perfect and that he should have reasonable expectations, it's almost romantic haha I'm 514 myself, so I kind of "get it", only I come at things from a more detached and objective (and therefore less idealistic and more realistic) angle and handle my disappointment a little better (or maybe I'm just more inclined to keep my disappointment to myself).
thanks very much, for this, man. it was a really useful and pertinent sub-theme, within the Enneagram. So…amongst the two books you recommended here, is the “‘The sacred Enneagram” the one i should pick up, in order to expand on this ? These sub-triads namely the Idealism/Rejection/Attachment feel to me, somewhat fundamental. PS: i’ve been watching quite a few of your videos, here…and they generally are pretty crisp & clear, and again.. _ useful . You do a good job in synthesizing what you learn. so thank you, again.
I wonder if he's biased. Because the attachment doesn't get much discussion compared to other groups. Also I think Frustration group gets more discussion than the other three.
If I had understood this better it wouldve saved me some grief with my 1 ex boyfriend. Cause with the 7s and 4s jitters look like jitters but with the 1 its way less obvious, like you don't look at an 1 and think comitment issues, it may look more like criticism & of course that just triggered my own bullshit
@@annayra6458 Ayyy I'm also INFJ-T 4w5 melancholic! They're referring to the four Greek temperaments: sanguine, melancholic, phlegmatic, & choleric. I believe they meant melancholic, not melancholy, but same thing basically ;P
I think people are born this way because there is always a kid that you can tell even at 4yrs old. One kid jumps off high dives and one kid doesn't want to walk by the pool side at all. Both have the same parents.
15:27 yes it may be confirmation bias but I have a different theory on it. If children are a response to their parents personality wise then the next child will be a response to all 3 and find a fourth path and so on and so on. Each child fills a niche at first in broad strokes and then further along they get more and more specific. I have a very big family, 9 in total & I think being a 5 is a response to being the youngest of 7 in my own situation. That said I would not be surprised if one of my older siblings is also a 5
I wonder how parents influence tritype. As a core 9 I was waiting on which caregiver I'd have an issue with, because I always had the view my parents were OK even though not perfect. They did not work well together. I felt I had to be close with both to feel safe.
So Im seeing a direct correlation between the stances and parental figures? Compliant Stance (1,2,6) : most impacted by protector/dad Assertive Stance (3, 7, 8): most impacted by nurturer/mom Withdrawn Stance (4, 5, 9): impacted by both
Can you talk a little bit more about the relationship between 9s and 4s? I thought I was a 4 for a long time and I identify with a lot of it. The need to be different. The need to be appreciated and loved for who I am. Etc, etc. All the 4 stuff. But now I think I may be a 9 based on what you've said. Those (admittedly awful) online tests put me in 4 or 9 depending on the day. And both make sense to me.
Type 9: idealist/romanticist vs Type 4: realist/romanticist Ideal normalcy vs Ideal deep originality 9 = Live inside of fantasy to find an ideal world when the real one is painful. The apex of type 9 is that they can enjoy just being normal, just existing and slowing down. Most of the other enneagram types don't want to chill, they feel a strong desire to achieve something ( not want to, they HAVE to otherwise they feel uneasy ). 9s just generally don't want to do much until they do. At best, bringing the sense of "being normal and chilling is ok" into the world, when normal just enjoying the little good things and disliking the mildly bad, and at most unhealthy, delusional/non-responsive and broken while being extremely angry in a repressed way. - Core fear: What if something I do causes everything I love to be taken away from me? What if my anger ( that I don't keep in touch with because it hurts others and therefore, my comfort ) causes my family and friends to not give me friendship and love I need? What if I can't pay my rent and then I die? If I have to take sides I feel like I am literally dying, I can see the good of both sides so I can't choose. >> What if being myself makes other people uncomfortable / what if being myself makes other people hate me? Can't do that! I don't need anything. I'm not mad, I just need my good place and it will all work out :) ( Delusion ) - 4 = Always searching for that ideal world in the real world sometimes in impossible ways to alleviate the pain of feeling outcasted / want more in their life. Type 4 can see so far inside of themselves that they can make bold choices and generally have better boundaries and qualifications better then type 9 can. - Core fear: What if nobody ever finds out who I am? What if I never find out who I am? What if my shame is right and I am worthless? What if everyone/ thing that spited me was right, what if the potential envy I am holding onto will never be fulfilled? What if nobody ever understands my feelings and I am alone in the world. What if I really *am* normal. Then what would that mean for my pain, what would that mean for my passion? - What if I was meaningless to the world, what if I never mattered to anybody. What if when I take off the masks there really is nothing underneath? ( Delusion ) Type 4 is especially important because they are always seeking more, to have what others have, to be a someone special, someone important in the world. And all type 4 people are important in the world regardless due to birthright, but want to find internally and externally show themselves ( who! they! are! ) to the world. When a type 4 really gets going they can create some crazy deep and awesome stuff. - The type 4's struggle is often to hate feeling normal. The type 9s struggle is often to hate feeling pulled on, they just want to be unbothered and maintain inner ok-ness. Advice for 4 from type 9: Learn to let go of everything, Learn you don't have to hold onto bad things. It is OK to treat yourself normally as you would any other person, and you will still be loved. Advice for 9 from type 4:: Learn who you are and strive to be that person, Learn it's ok to be sad and process emotions. It is OK to treat yourself normally as you would any other person, and you will still be loved. - I learned how to be introspective from a 4 friend and they sit with me in the darkest feelings I have and understood with me. I love type 4. I love all enneagram types though. I think most people can have feelings and problems from every part of the enneagram. I'm 9 but I have a lot of type 4 and 5 issues, but also big events in life and people you meet will generally change what problems you have to take on. Sometimes at work I feel 3 compulsions. Sometimes when I feel like nobody gets me because of my autism miscommunications, I feel 4 compulsions. The enneagram is just a fluid map of human- ness with your enneagram number at the starting point, the entry square on the boardgame of life. As people grow they'll get closer to understanding all types anyways, while still being their own. I sure typed out a lot, I hope it was able to answer your question well enough. Other replies welcome of course. (!!! yes! ) Here's a tri-type chart as well, because there is a theory that your gut, heart , and mind all operate on a type in that category : www.pinterest.com/pin/508625351645787037/
In terms of the harmony groups I strongly relate to the 5. In terms of domminant effect groups I strongly relate to both 5 and 4. To a lesser degree I relate to 8, 9, 1 as well in terms of domminant effect groups Therefore, as a 5w4, I have came to realize that love is only an illusion. Noone will ever be able to give you what you need because they don't even have enough for themselves. Also, noone would ever sacrifice their little to give you anything. Because they fear that they won't have enough for themselves. This shows the solipsistic human condition in that everyone looks only upon it's validation mechanism. Even if they give anything, they still get back more. Therefore, they will still get validation. Noone is only for the other, but they are all for themselves only. What I came to understand through those typloogical systems is that there will never be a perfect match. Nor should it be. The perfect match would still be the one who will nurture you and give everything to you. But why should they do that? Why should they enable your solipsistic limited human condition? It is better this way because we can see the limits of existence and that this life resources are limited. Therefore, we learn to use the little that we have instead of getting a ton of what we want and then wasting it on our solipsistic tendencies. Don't get me wrong, I would like to know as well that true love is possible. However, this isn't the case because we are not made to sustain a mechanism that would eject every resources that we have so that others would get it. Also, a little speculation. I think that the harmony groups are our innate enneagram fixation or nature, while the domminant effect group is how this fixation manifest and strengthens itself through nurture. Just a little hypothesis. Otherwise I can't explain myself why I only relate to the 5 in terms of harmony groups or main fixation or origin, and I relate to more in terms of the domminant effect groups or manifestations of that fixation. Also, it seems as tho it won't ever matter if we got our needs met, because by our fixation we will always try to find flaws and missing things. I relate to the 5 being annoyed by both his caregivers, and I can't really blame them. Yes, my mother was overnurturing, and my father was over protective, the extremes. But I can't blame them for this. Because at the end of the day is up to me to filter what I need and want, and what I reject. They only present me with the option. It is my choice if I choose what they give. Actually by presenting me with both extremes, not that I think, they offer me with a larger array of possibilities of development to choose from than if they would have been moderate scalings. I think that I see some 9 tendencies as well, but oh well. Humans are more complex than that. Maybe it's the fact that we have domminant fixations but we also have our shadow which would have a different sequence than our domminant ego. As long as they will be proved, they are only that theories and hypothesises.
I actually believe in people, and the thing that makes me feel like i have worth is through my ability to love others. but you have to love yourself first. i wouldnt ask someone to sacrifice themselves for me.
I appreciate this meaty video 😳
It’s interesting how much Enneagram origin theories can differ. I had to take some notes just to keep up.
Notes:
Relationists
2 - Toward people
5 - Away from people
8 - Lead people
Pragmatists
3 - Best of ability in role
6 - Security
9 - Comfort
Idealists
1 - Ideal world of their criteria
4 - World lives up to ideals of substance
7 - World free of pain and suffering
Rejection (2, 5, 8)
2 - Felt rejected by caregivers, so doesn’t express own needs to avoid rejection
5 - Rejected intrusive caregivers, protect self with emotional distance
8 - Felt controlled by a caregiver, so identified with other independent caregiver
Attachment (3, 6, 9)
3 - (Recognition) Got praise from mom and can nurture self
6 - (Stability) Aligned with Dad and can protect self
9 - (Independence) Connects with both caregivers
Frustration (1, 4, 7)
1 - Unrealistic expectations, Autonomy, Disappointed with Protector, becoming them
4 - Intense introspection, Validation, Disappointed with lack of acceptance from both caregivers
7 - Closure to idea/experience is limiting, Opportunities, Nurturer didn’t give enough
Wow!
Thank you! I used to work as a notetaker; it was one of my most favorite jobs ☺️
@@trustyourself-ashleyching3646 how could I possibly get a copy of that? What a gift you have!
Thank you so much!
I am 6, but I would describe myself as an idealistic person, rather than pragmatic.
Why can't "idealistic/pragmatic/relational" be a separate parameter, similar to instinctual stacking?
2:27 example of groupings
3:32 harmony triads: 3 groups of 3
3:39 1st group relationalist: 2,5,8
3:49 2nd group: pragmatist: 3,6,9
3:55 3rd group: idealist: 1,4,7
4:00 "relate to the world through their connections"
5:28 5:
7:00 8 type:
8:00 Pragmatist: 3,6,9. Seeking their place in the world. They are seeking their place in relationships
8:28 3:
8:58 6:
9:14 9:
As a 9w1, I can relate to both the attachment and frustration types. I get along well with my parents for the most part. But in the back of my head I remember being frustrated and disappointed with my Dad as a kid when he didn’t defend me when I would get into arguments with my Mom. As a 9, I really dislike conflict and I would tend to suppress my feelings and stay quiet. So usually my Mom would get her way without understanding my side of things. Now as an adult, I usually keep the peace with my parents by being responsible and doing the right thing. It made me a better person but now I am my worst inner critic. Now I parent and call them out when they make mistakes lol They usually listen to me though since they say I’m a “woman of integrity”. Very interesting stuff Dr. Tom Lahue!
ua-cam.com/video/Rtfp_0-3hiQ/v-deo.html have you seen this talk? I saw this comment and thought about it. Really amazing job. I am balanced wings and I would tell you to rely on the soft 8 as it seems you do. Which is say when you get angry: "I don't blame anyone, I am just angry right now, and saying it made me calm." The moment you say you're angry, it will all fade away and you'll be clearheaded. Then when calm and quiet say "I love you, and felt my personal justice crossed by this triggering anger, is there a way we can fix this?" If this sounds weirdly phrased, well it's the best I got lol. Good luck :D :D Perfectionism I go "Would this be ok if someone I cared about did? And then troubleshoot: If unacceptable, ask for help, If acceptable then self- advocate." and then go "No matter what you do, I love you. Because you're just a person too. and this isn't helping anyone."
it's interesting to me to learn abt the different types because ive had the same situation as you when i was younger but as a more assertive type (a 7) i would always fight back in those situations and point out what i thought was unfair loud and clear! its also interesting to hear your perspective as a 9w1 because i love 9's, and my best friend is a 9w1 too.
Thanks so much Tom, very insightful.
24:00 As a Five I wholeheartedly agree that even - I'd even say especially - the good nurturing from parents (and kindergarten teachers) can also observed as an intrusive force. I hated it and as a very independent child I perceived it as not enough respect for my own competence. As a grown-up woman I'm not sure how one can successfully do motherhood with this view, and it scares me.
As far as you being worried about people having a problem with you not knowing enough or not sharing what you do know in the best way.....I think you should refer to your type 5 videos. You said they have a tendency to lock themselves in their room, study something intently and never really feel like they have studied enough to share their knowledge with others. You advise them to realize when good enough is good enough. It's ok for you to do that too even though you aren't a 5. I'm glad you haven't let this worry keep you from making these videos because you have been a big help to a lot of people.
Harmony, triad, dominant... what is this, a music theory class? 😂 (I'm just kidding 😉)
I'm 4w3 i want someone that actually know and care about me more than myself, i think that the only thing that make myself satisfied
Another top notch video. 9w1 here commenting because what 9's have to say do matter!!☺️ Thank you
Thank you for sharing this precious information! Many of the points you've shared literally gave freedom in the areas that I was praying about!! Thank you for making the most of social media that God have gifted us to make loving one another easier! Thankful for the gift and heart that God has given you and your ministry.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks.
Love that the enneagram has depths to be explored for decades. Thank you for your clarity in sharing and the focus you hold. Minute 34:30ish - nailed it.
yes, let's "imagine".... lol :))
That's so interesting, the idea that the message we "think" our cargivers were trying to communicate with us, and how the way we related to them helped "lock in" our enneagram type.
I've actually wondered a lot about this because I don't feel I ever "settled" on a particular "message" as a child...I was mostly confused, as there didn't seem to be any generalized coherent message...and I was rather just constantly taking in more and more "data" in the hopes that it would all culminate into some kind of "gestalt" at some point (I think, due to the introverted intuition that is my dominant cognitive function as an INFJ...and it actually HAS now, but it took 50 years!)....And yeah, I suppose you could say there was already a "type 5 lense" that was causing me to "hoard data!" as a child but honestly all I remember is being confused and really wanting to understand my entire family dynamic. It made no sense to me and I felt I "needed" to get it right for my own ability to navigate it effectively. I don't remember being "5 like" at all when I was a child...and I have wondered more than once if the general chaotic nature of my family is what brought my "5ness" about. I mean, there was plenty of loss, invasion & scarcity...and I think I may have "learned" to be a five as my own response. And here, again, there may have been some "innate tendency" that made this "solution" feel like the best fit for me so....Chicken?...Egg?....Most probably a bit of both along, possibly, with many other factors...such as my oldest sister (not that much older) basically taking on the primary "caregiving" role (and a bit invasive about it) and actual parents just not really being very tuned in to needs. I suppose it doesn't really matter "why" I'm a 5, although it's interesting to try and piece it together. "5ness" worked for me...and continues to....and I think there are bits of some of the other types within me that seem to crop up when I'm not feeling the need to retreat from anything and I've managed to meet all my own needs! lol :))
I think you do an AWESOME Job! Nothing fits us 100%, 100% of the time. If it doesn't fit it doesn't fit. If it stings, pay attention! Thank you for doing what you are doing. Share your videos and channel often. If they know me at all I always tell them to start with you describing the 8. That pretty much peaks there intrest as to how did this guy nail your personality by like 90-95% when he has no idea who she is. Then I tell them to watch your descriptions of each. Sorry this turned out very long to say keep doing what God is leading you to do! It is OBVIOUS He is in even you style of teaching it. Thank you again. God Bless you and your Family. ❤
I'm an eight and it's true my parents both mom and dad always told me what to do and my mom kind of manipulate me to think the exact way like she is, but nooo I won't. Actually I'm lacking of both nurturing and protecting side because I think all their love are just for my little brother, so I start to put up guard and hardening my heart so they don't need to worry about me. I grew up to be unbreakble older sister who will protect her little brother with all cost. I can't percieve all the thing my parents did to keep me safe and alive as a love because I still need to fight my way out there without them to keep me stand
Great video as usual, Tom. You do a great job helping people and I thank you for that. Just let me say something. I'm a 4, and let's speak the truth and not be politically correct, because that doesn't do any good: most parents destroy their children's lives. These parents of course were children one day, so my aim here is not to blame anyone, but simply clarify things. I'll repeat it again: most parents are the reason why we are broken, and the rest is bullshit. That's precisely why we must take responsability, which by the way, as a rather unhealthy 4, I find it so hard to do.
Definitely some truth to that I'm a bit miserable because of the way my toxic mother raised me so I'm working to correct that
Hey, love your channel! In case you're responding to comments, I wanted to ask. Is it still 7-like to be "go go go" but more mentally than physically? I feel like I am just constantly keeping my brain running quickly: researching things, investing in a hobby like drawing or reading, calling someone on the phone, something of that sort. But for most of my life I haven't been as much of a person who wants to go rock climbing or scuba diving every weekend LOL. My "go go go" is definitely there, and while sometimes its with physical activities, it's mostly in my head. So yeah, just wondering if my situation is still likely for an enneagram 7 :)
Dr Tom this video was BRILLIANT. 5w6 here and happy with all I heard - it blends in and fills gaps and adds jisaw puzzle pieces to what I have learnt so far. I am also an Identical Twin so can 100% Agree with you on your comments. She is a 4w5. She had as much impact on my development into a 5w6 as my Parents 4w3(?) Dad and 8w7(?) Mum. My Twin Sister and I have sought insight into multiple birth members development for some time and I think this may be the best explanation I have found. While some relationship differences occur between personalities our Parents were the same people for both of us at the same time so Why the differences in us? Anyway - Thanks Heaps!!! Love your Teaching and find it very helpful.
"I am going to send them cards for Mothers Day and Fathers Day" well done Mr. LaHue 😃
Thank you! 😃
Tom I love you 😂 But yeah I'm a 1 and my parents were shit. Your videos are sometimes just too accurate. Good job, thank you for taking the time and sharing all this 💝 I cant get enough.
Message was as a child... Fend for yourself. And no one cares. I did raise myself..didn't trust any adults around me. I was abused on many levels. I am also the archetype orphan. But my father was a orphan and Holocaust survivor. So with inherited trauma. Was the scapegoat/black sheep. I was born after the death of a sibling. I ended up splitting from a large highly dysfunctional family. My parents died some years ago. . So i am a adult orphan. A narcissist marriage of 20 years also. I am not looking for sympathy. Its what made me. Stronger wiser and better for it. And have healed greatly the last 7 years. I have always been different. Spiritual. A mystic/shaman type. Listening to your videos has been good.
Rejection=Sensitive
Attachment=Placed
Frustration=Assertion
I love your content and think you do a fantastic job of simplifying these complex descriptions.
One of your best videos imo (5 here, I always appreciate the depth of info)
Timeless info. Diving in deeper
As an example of a type 6 kid 'copying' some assertive bossy figure in the household, my youngest sister is way younger than the rest of us as in we're all adults & she's the only one who's still a kid, & she has this really cute worship of the next-older sister (also a 6) & even affectionately calls her 'Your Majesty' & always listens to her, tries to be cool like her etc, it's like a superhero and their sidekick.
Honestly, I'm glad that she's copying Isabel, because Isabel is a reasonable discerning person & our father is useless.
Tom seems stressed today , Such a nice dude , saved my life
Oh, this is so fun!😊 I love to analyze my friends and relations (and myself)
I can totally see this with my sister and me. I was 3 when my sister was born, and she was sick, with a rare issue that was a mystery for a long time and then still a big deal to treat for several years (now she's good❤) I, naturally, got booted out of my parents spotlight in a more extreme way than most older siblings are. I was a daddy's girl and spent most of the time he was home being with him. My sister, naturally, was with my mom more. However, she ended up with a very similar job and skills as my dad. I ended up as a 7, she as a 6. (I'm pretty sure my dad is a 9 and my mom is a 4)
I'm sure it's more complicated than that, as my grandmother played a huge role in raising me, and my sister and I had a big impact on each other as well. But it's really interesting! I'm diagnosing my husband's siblings now.😅
I worry a lot about my kids and what messages they're getting. I'm plenty intrusive as a 7, maybe too much sometimes, although I am not very overbearing with safety things if they can convince me that the fun is worth the risk (other moms think I'm neglectful sometimes, but to me it seems better for them to get physically injured than getting their spirits stifled), and my husband's a 5 and, to me, seems way too standoffish with the children. I wonder how they'll turn out. I don't want them to have ANY of the "childhood wounds" I hate the very idea!😢
It's fascinating how family dynamics shape who we become! Your insights into your sister's journey and your own are really thought-provoking. It's wonderful to hear how you're reflecting on your children's experiences too!
As a 4, I fall into that Type 1 aesthetic where I would like everything to look perfect. I continually have to tell myself, ‘It’s perfect as it is.’ 😅
I'm a 7 in a relationship with a 4. 😅 We get along quite well.
Minute 15, about causation and the "message that we hear" is very interesting, and reminds me of retroactive temporality (Nachträglich) in Freud.
I think that Human Design very well explains with what type of personality we’re born with which then is the base of the enneagram personality type.
Thank you for these videos. I am still figuring out my type (6? 4?) but each thing I read or listen to about the Enneagram gives me more information. Truly I can identify with many though not all of the groups. Re: parents - I think that most do the best they can given their circumstances, background, their own issues, how well they know themselves and how they were raised. That was true for me anyways. And regardless of how we are raised we have to accept ourselves for who we are.
Ahhhh I always learn so much from your videos and yes, thank you so much for doing all of the reading for me because I yearn for knowledge but I don’t find it in books! Anyways - the bit about the siblings growing up and having two very different perspectives about their caregivers is dead on in my family. My brother and I are three years apart and grew up with the same parents in the same house and characterize our parents pretty differently, I (a 9 probably), much more favorably than my brother who might be a 5 (not quite sure). Great insights on all of this as always and thank you for sharing 💖
There are also non shared environments, head injuries and other variables
My partner is 1 with a 4 fix. Understanding the frustration group has probably encouraged me to be more patient and not blame myself for his unhappiness (with vacations, with my behaviors, with where we live, with pretty much anything lol). When a type 1 tells you he feels better in your relationship because he learned you're not perfect and that he should have reasonable expectations, it's almost romantic haha
I'm 514 myself, so I kind of "get it", only I come at things from a more detached and objective (and therefore less idealistic and more realistic) angle and handle my disappointment a little better (or maybe I'm just more inclined to keep my disappointment to myself).
thanks very much, for this, man.
it was a really useful and pertinent sub-theme, within the Enneagram.
So…amongst the two books you recommended here, is the “‘The sacred Enneagram” the one i should pick up, in order to expand on this ?
These sub-triads namely the Idealism/Rejection/Attachment feel to me, somewhat fundamental.
PS: i’ve been watching quite a few of your videos, here…and they generally are pretty crisp & clear, and again.. _ useful . You do a good job in synthesizing what you learn.
so thank you, again.
I wonder if he's biased. Because the attachment doesn't get much discussion compared to other groups. Also I think Frustration group gets more discussion than the other three.
If I had understood this better it wouldve saved me some grief with my 1 ex boyfriend.
Cause with the 7s and 4s jitters look like jitters but with the 1 its way less obvious, like you don't look at an 1 and think comitment issues, it may look more like criticism & of course that just triggered my own bullshit
Spot on, I am a 5 and I had an abusive father.
I enjoyed this video. This was great new information to me. Thank you for sharing!
I really appreciate this video ,
~INFJ-T , 4w5 , Melancholy
heyy Im also INFJ-T 4W5 lol, what does melancholy mean? is it another personality system?
@@annayra6458 Ayyy I'm also INFJ-T 4w5 melancholic! They're referring to the four Greek temperaments: sanguine, melancholic, phlegmatic, & choleric. I believe they meant melancholic, not melancholy, but same thing basically ;P
@@abbigailpandl1052 thank you very much!
Im INFJ, 1w9 but when im stressed, i become 4w5. 🥳
This is gold 🤩
24:28 I imagine it could look like parentification too.
Such a dense video. So much valuable content. Thank you so much:)
I think people are born this way because there is always a kid that you can tell even at 4yrs old. One kid jumps off high dives and one kid doesn't want to walk by the pool side at all. Both have the same parents.
That's so true! Kids really do have their own personalities from the get-go.
Oops first time I take notice about this likewise...ok need to hear this more then once..thanx for this eye opener..kindest regards from Isa 😁🤩👏👏👏💥
15:27 yes it may be confirmation bias but I have a different theory on it. If children are a response to their parents personality wise then the next child will be a response to all 3 and find a fourth path and so on and so on. Each child fills a niche at first in broad strokes and then further along they get more and more specific. I have a very big family, 9 in total & I think being a 5 is a response to being the youngest of 7 in my own situation. That said I would not be surprised if one of my older siblings is also a 5
SUCH a great video, Dr. Tom!
Many thanks!
Related with your description of parental behavior of a 4 child. But I want to know is -- by what age is type solidified in a child?
How can i thank you for your expetional effort and energy
Thank you friend for another amazing video!
I wonder how parents influence tritype. As a core 9 I was waiting on which caregiver I'd have an issue with, because I always had the view my parents were OK even though not perfect. They did not work well together. I felt I had to be close with both to feel safe.
I think your information about nuturing or protective parents doesnt make sense to me. I font think it corelates to the harmony.
Thanks for this. Could be a 1w9 after watching this
Interesting. And presented well.
What is the best enneagram test? My brother wants to take it
Very informative
Would you say the people in the frustration group are usually discontent?
Perfect prefect prefect
So Im seeing a direct correlation between the stances and parental figures?
Compliant Stance (1,2,6) : most impacted by protector/dad
Assertive Stance (3, 7, 8): most impacted by nurturer/mom
Withdrawn Stance (4, 5, 9): impacted by both
I am a 7 and affected by my father, hell even the childhood experiences of 8 is about their abusive father and how they stood up to them
Can you talk a little bit more about the relationship between 9s and 4s? I thought I was a 4 for a long time and I identify with a lot of it. The need to be different. The need to be appreciated and loved for who I am. Etc, etc. All the 4 stuff. But now I think I may be a 9 based on what you've said. Those (admittedly awful) online tests put me in 4 or 9 depending on the day. And both make sense to me.
Type 9: idealist/romanticist vs Type 4: realist/romanticist
Ideal normalcy vs Ideal deep originality
9 = Live inside of fantasy to find an ideal world when the real one is painful. The apex of type 9 is that they can enjoy just being normal, just existing and slowing down. Most of the other enneagram types don't want to chill, they feel a strong desire to achieve something ( not want to, they HAVE to otherwise they feel uneasy ). 9s just generally don't want to do much until they do. At best, bringing the sense of "being normal and chilling is ok" into the world, when normal just enjoying the little good things and disliking the mildly bad, and at most unhealthy, delusional/non-responsive and broken while being extremely angry in a repressed way.
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Core fear: What if something I do causes everything I love to be taken away from me? What if my anger ( that I don't keep in touch with because it hurts others and therefore, my comfort ) causes my family and friends to not give me friendship and love I need? What if I can't pay my rent and then I die? If I have to take sides I feel like I am literally dying, I can see the good of both sides so I can't choose.
>> What if being myself makes other people uncomfortable / what if being myself makes other people hate me? Can't do that! I don't need anything. I'm not mad, I just need my good place and it will all work out :)
( Delusion )
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4 = Always searching for that ideal world in the real world sometimes in impossible ways to alleviate the pain of feeling outcasted / want more in their life. Type 4 can see so far inside of themselves that they can make bold choices and generally have better boundaries and qualifications better then type 9 can.
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Core fear: What if nobody ever finds out who I am? What if I never find out who I am? What if my shame is right and I am worthless? What if everyone/ thing that spited me was right, what if the potential envy I am holding onto will never be fulfilled? What if nobody ever understands my feelings and I am alone in the world. What if I really *am* normal. Then what would that mean for my pain, what would that mean for my passion?
- What if I was meaningless to the world, what if I never mattered to anybody. What if when I take off the masks there really is nothing underneath?
( Delusion )
Type 4 is especially important because they are always seeking more, to have what others have, to be a someone special, someone important in the world. And all type 4 people are important in the world regardless due to birthright, but want to find internally and externally show themselves ( who! they! are! ) to the world. When a type 4 really gets going they can create some crazy deep and awesome stuff.
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The type 4's struggle is often to hate feeling normal. The type 9s struggle is often to hate feeling pulled on, they just want to be unbothered and maintain inner ok-ness.
Advice for 4 from type 9: Learn to let go of everything, Learn you don't have to hold onto bad things. It is OK to treat yourself normally as you would any other person, and you will still be loved.
Advice for 9 from type 4:: Learn who you are and strive to be that person, Learn it's ok to be sad and process emotions. It is OK to treat yourself normally as you would any other person, and you will still be loved.
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I learned how to be introspective from a 4 friend and they sit with me in the darkest feelings I have and understood with me. I love type 4. I love all enneagram types though. I think most people can have feelings and problems from every part of the enneagram. I'm 9 but I have a lot of type 4 and 5 issues, but also big events in life and people you meet will generally change what problems you have to take on. Sometimes at work I feel 3 compulsions. Sometimes when I feel like nobody gets me because of my autism miscommunications, I feel 4 compulsions.
The enneagram is just a fluid map of human- ness with your enneagram number at the starting point, the entry square on the boardgame of life. As people grow they'll get closer to understanding all types anyways, while still being their own. I sure typed out a lot, I hope it was able to answer your question well enough. Other replies welcome of course. (!!! yes! )
Here's a tri-type chart as well, because there is a theory that your gut, heart , and mind all operate on a type in that category : www.pinterest.com/pin/508625351645787037/
Check out subtypes. 9 sx is quite similar to 4.
Great video! Very poignant summaries about each type and group.
I'm a submissive bottom
wtf this is hilarious seeing that your comment is at the bottom lol
@@ibanezmonsterg lmao
epic
The egg comes first...
type four is true but painful to hear.
These groupings seem too simplistic
See dr amen neuroscientist
In terms of the harmony groups I strongly relate to the 5.
In terms of domminant effect groups I strongly relate to both 5 and 4. To a lesser degree I relate to 8, 9, 1 as well in terms of domminant effect groups
Therefore, as a 5w4, I have came to realize that love is only an illusion. Noone will ever be able to give you what you need because they don't even have enough for themselves.
Also, noone would ever sacrifice their little to give you anything. Because they fear that they won't have enough for themselves.
This shows the solipsistic human condition in that everyone looks only upon it's validation mechanism. Even if they give anything, they still get back more. Therefore, they will still get validation. Noone is only for the other, but they are all for themselves only.
What I came to understand through those typloogical systems is that there will never be a perfect match. Nor should it be. The perfect match would still be the one who will nurture you and give everything to you. But why should they do that? Why should they enable your solipsistic limited human condition?
It is better this way because we can see the limits of existence and that this life resources are limited. Therefore, we learn to use the little that we have instead of getting a ton of what we want and then wasting it on our solipsistic tendencies.
Don't get me wrong, I would like to know as well that true love is possible. However, this isn't the case because we are not made to sustain a mechanism that would eject every resources that we have so that others would get it.
Also, a little speculation. I think that the harmony groups are our innate enneagram fixation or nature, while the domminant effect group is how this fixation manifest and strengthens itself through nurture. Just a little hypothesis.
Otherwise I can't explain myself why I only relate to the 5 in terms of harmony groups or main fixation or origin, and I relate to more in terms of the domminant effect groups or manifestations of that fixation.
Also, it seems as tho it won't ever matter if we got our needs met, because by our fixation we will always try to find flaws and missing things.
I relate to the 5 being annoyed by both his caregivers, and I can't really blame them. Yes, my mother was overnurturing, and my father was over protective, the extremes. But I can't blame them for this. Because at the end of the day is up to me to filter what I need and want, and what I reject. They only present me with the option. It is my choice if I choose what they give. Actually by presenting me with both extremes, not that I think, they offer me with a larger array of possibilities of development to choose from than if they would have been moderate scalings. I think that I see some 9 tendencies as well, but oh well. Humans are more complex than that.
Maybe it's the fact that we have domminant fixations but we also have our shadow which would have a different sequence than our domminant ego. As long as they will be proved, they are only that theories and hypothesises.
Yes !!!
But no one believes me and they’ll call you a cynic.
I actually believe in people, and the thing that makes me feel like i have worth is through my ability to love others. but you have to love yourself first. i wouldnt ask someone to sacrifice themselves for me.