“My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge” - Hosea 4:1 Many Christians fall to temptation and allow spiritual attacks into our lives simply because of ignorance, and unwillingness to do research and understand why the Bible tells us this: “Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;” 1 Timothy 4:7
But this is cool & hip in many churches...everybody who is into finding out more about themselves is into it. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ So sad so many are ignorant.
"Perhaps Christians have gotten bored with what the Bible has to offer, so they go and find a deeper, more thoughtful structure, like the Enneagram, appealing." Sounds a lot like how the Israelites in the wilderness got tired of waiting for Moses to come back down from the mountain so they fashioned a golden calf for themselves instead, because it was something shiny and new.
@SHAMAR WASHINGTON Well tbh with you, sometimes I find certain chapters boring. Not trying to be offensive whatsoever. For example, I suffered trying to get past Numbers chapter 7. Personally I enjoy the New Testament more than the Old Testament.
@@ElliottWong2024 I totally get it, but when you dive into the Word, and try to understand how everything points to Jesus, you’ll realize there are so much wisdom worth a life time of learning.
Wow, this explains why I felt so uncomfortable with it! I didn’t even know 😳. Also, the whole “self” discovery, SELF actualization, SELF SELF SELF thing bugs the snot out of me. Can we just forget ourselves?
i think without knowing oneself, it's hard to know the things around us authentically. yes, i agree the Bible teaches us about being selfless and letting God and others be the focus on our lives and not ourselves. However, i believe they are speaking about different things ultimately. I see your point, but i don't think that's the point of Enneagram or personality tests or self-knowledge at all. How should we love others as ourselves if we don't even know our own deepest desires and fears? If this doesn't matter, much of therapy and counselling probably wouldn't be of much value either, but I guess you wouldn't agree with that. Whether Enneagram is a good tool for self-knowledge or not, that is one thing; whether self-knowledge is essential or not, is another. And i believe self-knowledge is essential to perceiving the things around us as real as we can.
I'm still not sure where I stand on this issue. I see both sides for now. But does anyone remember the song that goes "let's forget about ourselves, and magnify the Lord, He's coming soon?" This comment reminded me of that. I love that song💕 ua-cam.com/video/moDeHc2t_zs/v-deo.html
So many believers are practicing divination and don't think its a big deal. (enneagram, astrology, angel cards, etc) Even though the Bible expressly forbids it.
I agree and people think its harmless. I think they are omignorant and just don't know any better. I think we should always be lead by the Holy Spirit.
I remember feeling a bit left out couple years ago when everyone was like “I’m number blah blah blah.” But for some reason .. never moved forward taking the test. It seemed weird to me. I understand now that it was the Holy Spirit protecting me...giving me discernment. 😳🙏🏼
I did take the test, but my results were "no doesn't make sense... No doesn't make sense.. bye" its funny because that was all before I became a Christian and then later begin seeing videos how it's not good
a friend sent it to me and wanted me to take it. I had never heard of it but I'm not interested in personality tests of any kind. I tried to take it to appease her, but I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't get the site to work, or open, or whatever. I just said, sorry, I guess I'm too stupid to take this thing.
Same thing with me as a child but with horoscopes/zodiacs... i always found that stuff dumb and fake thank God i never picked up interest in it and never will
This is scary because I got a degree from a Christian University that taught and used this. Thank you for your channel, it's really helping me recognize that I've essentially been apart of a church, which I left 6 months ago that was occultish and new age. They even started practicing sozo. I couldn't run fast enough.
@@ziz.ranchero But as Christians God can change anything, and anyone. The Enneagram implies we’re going to be like our type forever, but the Bible says that just isn’t true (when you think about all the types represent a certain sin too) so we should look to God not to this stuff. I fell into the enneagram and am still trying to climb out of personality typology, I don’t think there’s anyway I can use it to help spread the Gospel, Jesus is all we need!
@@taylorcunningham7931 exactly. Interesting correlation with the seven points as well. "Here are six things the Lord despises, yea even seven". Enneagram excuses sin as "personality" and deceives even Christians into not realizing what they need to repent of and entrust to Jesus Christ. It lulls you into comfort, thinking you have nothing to be forgiven for, which is the ultimate path to destruct. It's heartbreaking.
Spirits aren’t necessarily demons, WE are spirits in physical form. I’m certainly not a demon. Our outside and our perspective is based off our inside, what we think, how we talk to ourselves, how were programmed to see the world and ourselves. God provided EVERYTHING. It’s what we DO with what is available.
The biggest problem with personality tests like these is that they take your focus from the Lord, back to yourself. They stoke your ego, your pride. They do not further your walk with Christ; they do not glorify Him.
I absolutely agree with this! I was really into the “16 personalities” test a couple of years ago, and it started being weird, like I inadvertently had my whole personality fit into 1 of the 16, and it limited my life in so many ways that I didn’t even realize... And it was actually somewhat like an idol 🤔😨🤭 Glad that it’s in the past now, but I gotta pay better attention from now on 😪
Learning that the 'enneotypes' were channelled from a spirit via automatic writing leads me to put use of the enneagram under the category of consulting mediums. Consulting channelled material is the same as consulting a medium, it's just what the medium wrote down. Consulting mediums is clearly forbidden in Scripture so I don't know how any Christian can get around that. They burnt all the demonic witchcraft books and writings in Acts. Unfortunately I've heard Christians I love and respect defend using it as 'taking something the enemy meant for evil and using it for good' or 'redeeming it'. How do you redeem something that came from the mouth of a demon? And why would we be at all interested in what a demon might have to say about our personality when they are under the direction of the father of lies?
Hello. I hope you are doing well today. I just wanted to let you know that there's actually no proof that that happened someone I think just made that up. sometimes people who are very legalistic in the faith will create ideas and stories in order to debunk them when actually there's no real evidence to that.
@@rabbig777 Hi Mark, there is literally a video of an interview with Claudio Naranjo, the creator of the enneagram personality types, where he says how he channelled it from a spirit via automatic writing. I don't know how there could be any more solid evidence than that. Feel free to look it up of Doreen Virtue's channel, it's titled 'Proof that the enneagram is new age, not Christian'. We're not being sensationalist or legalistic, the guy literally said it himself.
@@annabel6038 Yes, I watched that. The man next to Naranjo even repeated "automatic writing?" and Naranjo affirmed this and no one took him to task over it.
@@sarahthompson1407 Hi Sarah, I've heard this argument used before to defend Christians using new age tools like the enneagram, but unfortunately it's based on false application of that verse out of context. In Genesis 50:20, Joseph tells his brothers 'what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this-to preserve the lives of many people.' They had sold him into slavery, but God is so sovereign and powerful that he can achieve His will even through man's evil choices. This verse is about God's power and sovereignty. It's absolutely not giving permission for people to engage in sinful occult practices and say that God has redeemed it. There is not one instance of occult practices being 'turned' for good. Every time occult practices are mentioned in the Bible they are utterly condemned as an abomination and God is very clear that we are to have nothing to do with it. He tells the Israelites to tear down the altars of other nations' idols. They are not to worship Him as the pagans worship their gods (Deut 12:31). In the New Testament, the new believers publicly burned their spellbooks (Acts 19:19) and we are warned that Christians will be led astray by 'doctrines of demons' (1 Tim. 4:1). We have concrete proof that the enneagram is straight from a demon. Sarah, I pray that you are not led astray!
I learned about the enneagram last year from a Christian friend and thought it was a neat tool to use for improvement. Once I learned of my number I became fascinated with learning as much as I could about it. In time I started to feel unease about it. It highlighted aspects of my childhood that seemed inescapable and pointed to it as my identity. Our identity is not to be grounded in worldly ideals but in our Father Himself. I now see the Holy Spirit was moving in me.
one thing I have noticed is that Christians who follow deceptive ways end up embracing those ways and leaving a relationshoip Christ, but they often don't realize it..
Agreed! There is a woman from my church who is cleaving unto false teachings. Since she started leaning away, she has been "tired" and needing a lot more "personal time" to recharge. It is because she is not being refreshed in the Lord.
2 Timothy 3:5 KJV - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. this, zodiac, astrology ,etc. They have truth in them, but they deny the TRUTH.
You have misunderstood the scripture and there is no TRUTH in those. Salvation is the only TRUE way. This scripture is speaking specifically to discerning false followers who appear to have a form of godliness but deny the power. May God help them. So individuals who deny the Holy Spirit and His gifts and do not agree and live by the doctrine and who do not heed to the Spirit. Also Christians need to stop with all this zodiac nonsense. Study to show yourselves approved.
It's been so long since I was taken in by new age jibber-jabber, but I can still spot that kind of twisted talk given by this author at 05:03. I would add this. When a Christian gets "bored" with the Bible and wants something new, they will surely search until they find it. This is a dangerous place to be. That's why pastors have such a burden placed on them: "...Preach the word....reprove, rebuke, exhort....for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires..." 2 Tim 4:2,3.
Also, I don't really understand how you can even get bored with the bible. There's just way too much to unpack for that. And (especially the new testament writers) and genuinely engaging!! It's not lacking in sense of humor or pros. Anyone who thinks they're bores of the bible is reading it the wrong way.
One of the pastors in my church is constantly posting about the enneagram, and it’s never sat right with me, even without me knowing anything about it. Maybe time to find a new church... Thank you for this video, your videos have helped me so much! God bless you🙏🏼
It's not a small issue but it's not heresy. By all means correct me, but it sounds like you're waiting for a reason to leave your church. Maybe you should. But your relationship to your pastor and your commitment to your local body is a very important and meaningful thing that you shouldn't dismiss so easily. Bring it up to the pastor like the word says in Matthew 18.
This is why I no longer go to church... I go to the Catholic ones and theres incence, altars and hail marys, I go to more modern ones and theyre talking about prosperity and superpowers, i went to a church of england, they went on bashing trump... I wish I could go to an orthodox service but its in greek 🤷♀️😂. I dont know...I wish I had a church
@@KKKaTTT123 Lots of good Biblical churches. Go to their webpage and look at "our beliefs" and test it to Scripture (1 The 5:21; Acts 17:11). If the church doesn't post their beliefs, then don't go. They could be hiding something.
Thoughts on Myers Briggs Type Indicator? As a personlity type nerd (for the purposeof understanding people) I love hearing Christian perspectives about these things
You’re awfully young to be so wise but I must say I greatly appreciate it your commentary on the majority of things that you are gracious enough to share with me truly helps God bless you Melissa and keep doing what you’re doing
I was deep in the Enneagram for a couple years and then last year during the pandemic, I discovered the truth and I was set free from the Enneagram. So thankful for people like you getting the word out there!
Wowser Melissa. My daughter introduced me to the Enneagram about 6 weeks ago or so. I had never heard of it. We went through the questions to get to my type and I found the information about my number to pretty accurately describe some aspects of my personality. I did a quick search, found a few websites, and did some reading. And then thought to myself, this stuff seems off. I left it where I found it that day. But she is into it. She mentioned it again this past week. I made a mental note of her mention but did not acknowledge it during our conversation. And here you are shining a light on the lie of it all. Thank you! And no, my daughter is not a Christian. Please keep her in your prayers.
Your daughter is incredibly smart and if I were you, I would much rather listen to her than this false Prophet. I invite you to read Luke 17:20-21. Enneagram will give you a close glimpse of the Kingdom of God that lies within us, just as Jesus promised us.
Dear Melissa, There are things in the world (like science, psychology, therapy, activities, medicine). Now any group can go and claim these things (unless it originated in a certain culture). A good example is the term and practice of meditation. The world connects it to eastern religions but if we strip it down to the core it is a very helpful practice that just happens to be part of a religious life (like praying and studying scripture). Personally I find it to be a loss for Christians that a vast majority doesn't do certain things because another group has claimed it. Don't get me wrong. I think it's very important to not hype something like the Enneagram and make life choices based on it (I'm with you, that is so so dangerous in our walk with Christ) but your Richard Rohr argument sounds to me a little bit like: the doctor who invented the cure for cancer was not a Christian/didn't live a Christian lifestyle as I'd like to see it, therefore I reject the cure. In this logic you'd have to reject als medicine and cure there is on earth because you believe that only by the power of God's spirit you can be healed and everything that is not directly coming from there is evil. To take our mental health seriously and seek professional help or help like the Enneagramm to understand oneself better does not go against the bible. The way we do it, how we hope to find all healing and solution in a pill or treatment, that is mighty dangerous but to lay all things at the feet of Jesus and make it obedient to him and serve him. (Of course I believe there are certain practices that the bible explicitly warns us not to observe and other behavior that makes us rather walk away from Christ than towards him and that should be considered. But it's not black and white)
I had no idea about this until late last year and I first suspected something was fishy because it took my focus off of God but I placed it on myself. Then I discovered the origins and was shocked. I was deceived and praise Jesus I don’t use the enneagram anymore.
I have to say I didn't even get that far because as soon as I saw the shape itself -- my brain waved a red flag and went, WHAT IS THIS?!? But yeah, so creepy really to hear the origin story discussion between Melissa and the others!
@Bailey Patterson I saw a video by Alisa Childers on it last year, when learned of it's true occultic origin.. I was shocked like you, because the churches were promoting it, so had no idea. I'm happy that I was already long gone from it as I never got that much into it at all.. maybe a few months? because like you, I felt it took my focus off of Jesus and instead onto myself.. . It was wrong.. its almost like a religion..ღ
I had a similar thing, someone presented if to me as just a fun personality test. I did it, and thought it was cool, but a few months later began to see youtube videos pop up from trustworthy people who condemned it. I put off looking into it out of pride; I didn't want to know I had been deceived. Looking back, some things didn't quite sit right, and the "formula" for "becoming a better person" just seemed off. I thought people were too obsessed with it. Now, I try to let others know ths truth, especually those who I've discussed it with.
Thank you so much for this bc I had never heard about this until I became a leader in a homeschool group and EVERYBODY kept asking me, “what’s your enneagram number?” I had no idea, but kept being told what I was or why they did what they did.....I felt like we were all being put into a box. I was always a little uneasy with it. Yoga next. Another one that Christians are apathetic to.
I LOVED the enneagram...until I learned it’s origins. Now I’ve been telling friends/family and am so discouraged at how unreceptive they are. I’ve been told things like “God redeems” or “it’s just a tool” . I’ve stopped being as vocal and am just praying God opens the churches eyes.
I told my friend about them this morning because she posted a book "Bible Verses for Ennegrams" or something like that. I told her these are new age/occult and not something Christians should be a part of. But she said "there's no wrong way to get into God's Word".... Unfortunately there is.
I would explain to them that the Enneagram has the same roots & really is the same thing as Astrology which the Bible clearly condemns. They will say, no, it's just psychology. Then you can ask which psychologists developed it through human studies over a period of time (like all psychology is developed). They won't find an answer to this. There's also a video with one of the founders himself saying this information was given to him through automatic writing and spirit channeling. It's not science. Not psychology. It's now being used in professional psychology (much like other new age tools), but it's not a scientifically developed psychological tool.
Girl, so FREAKY! I literally just messaged a friend of mine this morning because I can tell, even though she says she loves Jesus, that she is going over to the new age side of things. She shared a pic of a "Bible Verses for Enneagrams" book so I told her about Enneagrams. Not sure if it was received well, but I did it with love and that's all I can do.
@@karenwebber9200 me too! It's shocking how Christians don't know that occultism and astrology and witchcraft was Israel's idols God punished punished for
Yes, I'm very into understanding people's psychology, so was intrigued when a few Christian friends told me about the enneagram.... until I looked at it myself. My very first thought was how occultic it looked. First red flag.
I know, like I was going to have some of my abuela’s “cabrito” the other day and then I said, “No way, abuela, this cabrito is like real goat! Goats are satanic!” That’s a red flag, “¡Si mon!”
Good video, Melissa! Thank you. The Ennegram was one of my last "tools" when I was in the NA, along with contemplative meditation. Both were useless because there was no change in me. I'm seeking and cherishing the holy spirit now for true healing of my ❤
This is kind of confusing. I don’t use the enneagram at all but your definition of it wasn’t how I’ve ever seen it used. It definitely has occult roots but this is kind of misleading. It’s been described as a tool to help you see where you have weaknesses because of your personality type or causes like trauma etc and then to help you be aware and work through them. It’s not at all used like astrology to blame your personality on a “type”. So that explains better why churches fell for this. And for all the people saying your identity should be in Christ: YES. But identity and personality are different things. We all have the same identity as sons and daughters of God but we all have different personalities and we can’t deny that there are personality types. Should we use that as a means to attain anything or define ourselves? NO But I don’t think that’s why any churches have used it. It’s used differently and that’s how they never even looked at the roots of this thing before running with it.
Adding to this, if you look up the definition of 'identity', it refers to the collective caracteristics of a group that tells them apart from the rest, meanwhile 'personality' is the _individual_ caracteristics of someone. Several people can have the same identity, but have different personalities, since the former is collective and the latter individual
I’m reading Rohr’s book now and finding the “secret” is the enneagram will draw you away from God to Rohr’s universal believing in all religions lead to God, with this “tool” of destruction. Good teaching, Melissa!!!
I’m curious about your thoughts on the Myers Briggs type indicator. While, as far as I know, it doesn’t have roots in the occult, I see it used in the same way as the enneagram a lot of the time. Some people see it as a way to better understand their preferences and behaviors rather than finding their “true self,” but I can see how it could also be a way to elevate self over Christ.
I had to do the Myers Briggs for college (degree in HR), but I never thought of it as religion. Maybe because I went to a Christian college or maybe because I'm strong in my faith (Lutheran, LCMS).
From what I do know about the Myers break typing, comma it is far more influenced by unions psychology than anything else, At the very least it was young who came up with the cognitive functions functions on which the typing is based These functions have more to do with how individuals individuals interpret and react to stimulus then it has to do with an ego driven view of the world
When I worked in the Catholic hospital,we were having a problem with a new charge nurse who disregarded most of what we told her. As experienced nurses,we could tell before the vital signs crashed that the patient was going downhill. The patient needed to be a higher priority. Unless that patient's vital signs were in the dumpster,she refused to even have interest. The reason I tell you this is because the nuns also owned the College of St. Catherine. They arranged an evening for floats to cover the evening shift. Then all of us had dinner at the college,and took a Briggs Meyer personality test. There was a professor who interpreted our results. She used a discussion to talk about the problems we were having. It turns out the new charge nurse was strictly scientific and wanted only hard facts. The rest of us scored intuitive which the professor explained as being able to notice small changes in our patients that would lead to a change in their condition. Since the charge nurse now understood our reasoning process,she changed her behavior. Intuitive doesn't mean psychic though some people think it does. It just means that a person unconsciously picks up signals from another person or situation. It saved her job.
I would recommend checking out content from David Hunt or the Berean Call ministry. Like this channel, he's exposed many occult practices and has talked about Carl Jung and Myers Briggs.
I'll be honest and admit that I was not regularly reading my Bible until fairly recently. I seriously believed that I just didn't have time. How sad and ridiculous is that? Anyway, even just after a couple of months of TRULY SEARCHING the word, I already feel so much more aware and able to understand the world around me and why so many of the rules given to Christians in the new testament (which people always try to dismiss or weasle their way out of) actually make sense!!! Honestly, there are even people I know who DO read their bible every day, but do so with a specific devotional or only one verse out of time out of context and they have no more insight on what is truly intended by God through the writers than they did before.
I keep on hearing Christians say 'What the enemy meant for evil, God meant for good' as an argument to defend Christians using the enneagram when they learn of its demonic origins. That's based on false application of that verse out of context. In Genesis 50:20, Joseph tells his brothers 'what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this-to preserve the lives of many people.' They had sold him into slavery, but God is so sovereign and powerful that he can achieve His will even through man's evil choices. This verse is about God's power and sovereignty. It's absolutely not giving permission for people to engage in sinful occult practices and say that God has redeemed it. There is not one instance of occult practices being 'turned' for good. Every time occult practices are mentioned in the Bible they are utterly condemned as an abomination and God is very clear that we are to have nothing to do with it. He tells the Israelites to tear down the altars of other nations' idols. They are not to worship Him as they worship their Gods (Deut 12:31). In the New Testament, the new believers publicly burned their spellbooks (Acts 19:19) and we are warned that Christians will be led astray by 'doctrines of demons' (1 Tim 4:1). We have concrete proof that the enneagram is straight from a demon. Praying that people who use this argument dig into Scripture and are not led astray!
I attended several classes on this at my former church and for a while I thought it was rather interesting. But all the teachers of the enneagram at this church always began with explaining that it really wasn't thus and such. If you have to start out explaining something by saying it really isn't this, you're in trouble, you are not the real deal.
Good point. My mum's friend is one of those "enneagram coaches" and she told us to not believe people who said it was pagan, because "it has nothing to do with that." I believed her at first.
We used this at a Christian workplace and I participated in taking the test :(immediately when seeing the picture of the emneagram, something felt wrong about it. I should have listened to that feeling and I regret participating. I should have learned by now that even if something seems innocent or not that big of a deal, and even if I cannot pinpount why it feels wrong, I should just not do it. Jesus please help me stay away from bad things from now on and to listen to you when you warn me 🙏
I view the enneagram similarly to the love languages or the “lion/otter/golden retriever” personality quiz, and it helped my husband and I put words to how we viewed or processed things around us/events. Similarly to the love languages. Never used to find our “true selves” - just help articulate why we act or respond the way we do in different situations. Although obviously it’s not perfect because we’re all different. But it did help me not feel like an outcast in feeling a certain way about things. A personality quiz that you answer questions for is vastly different than the star signs that are based off a birthday. I hate that comparison. A better comparison would be love languages or another personality quiz like the Myers Briggs or something. Thank you for the heads up. This video reminded me a lot of a friend who used to be atheist and heavily into the spirituality stuff and yoga in particular and now can’t practice yoga because she knows the spiritual meaning behind each pose and doesn’t think other Christians should either. I’ve always avoided hippie type yoga and looked for more stretch-based “yoga” because it felt weird with the stuff they would say. I am in no way “bored of the Bible” because I like personality quizzes even if they’re as silly as my organizing style or “my color quiz”. As long as people aren’t making it their main identity or idolizing any of these things and putting God and the Bible first, I think people can use a lot of “worldly” things in a God-honoring way. Condemning people for using or doing something that they didn’t know the roots of does seem a bit self-righteous. I don’t know if any of this will make sense to anyone, but that’s my unpopular opinion I guess.
I have seen the enneagram stuff but never heard of the history. Honestly I think in part the enneagram looks at the psychology of one's personality. I agree it doesn't give me my identity and people need to be careful about it. I think of it as a tool. One may fall into a black and white fallacy here thinking this is all bad. I will give you an anecdotal instance. My family, friends and I looked at the psychology behind the enneagram and saw that it was helpful to understand certain personalities. But there was some untrue aspects about it, so we disregarded those things. I don't think it is something to be preached in the church necessarily. I think one just needs to understand what it is and the history and maybe just focus on the psychology of it.
I completely agree that some Christians may be looking for external meaning and that putting the focus on themselves alone can lead them down a dark path, but I just don't think the core problem is necessarily that it has origins in familiar spirits. The only connection it has with the occult is the structure, the design. As you said, personality traits were only introduced later with their roots in some verified psychology. So if a Christian only uses it for that purpose, and disregards any New Age ideas of "enlightenment" and their "true self," I believe the Enneagram can be used to bring them closer to God. For me, understanding why I sometimes fail in my walk with God through the lens of my type has allowed me to overcome those habits and carry on in the fight. What does any of that have to do with spirits or the New Age? I believe that what the Enneagram was in the 1800s has nothing to do with what it is today, and is therefore not *inherently* dangerous. Only when it is used for extra-biblical purposes can it truly become a weapon of the enemy.
Our church staff has been using this. They have also been promoting a book by Peter Scazzero titled “Emotionally Healthy Spirituality”. I read the first two chapters and had a lot of red flags. Lots of “true self” talk. Could you please comment on this.
Depending on the denomination, it sounds like the practitioners have an allegorical POV of the bible. You still are obligated to show them via scriptures the warnings in Lev, and Deut as well as the NT warnings about being deceived and the punishment for heresy. Many people do not believe in hell or in the Day of the Lord. If they don't listen, move on. Someone corrected me once and it made a difference. (:
Interesting because I'm actually reading it right now. I agree that at first a lot of it seemed interesting, but getting to the latter half of the book, it provides practices that are very biblical and focus entirely on relationship with the Lord as the source of our growth and change. Pulling in the importance of the Sabbath. Just my thoughts. Haven't finished the book yet
I had several books on this and the personality types that I had purchased many, many years ago. I had read through them, answered the questions to get my personality type, and had things highlighted as though it was divine insight. I forgot that I had them - they were boxed away and forgotten about until a recent move when I found them. I threw them out in the trash. I suggest anyone who has books about it to do the same.
@@strangerinmoscow6858 No, you should recycle it! Burning might be therapeutic but it releases a load of carbon into the atmosphere which isn't good. Much better that you tear the pages out and put them in with your paper recycling ♻️. That way they can make it into something that is ACTUALLY useful (such as toilet roll!)
New Age got woven into my Christian faith when I was an impressionable student at a Christian college. Now even 6-10 years later, I am still finding elements of New Age that I need to prune away from my belief system and these videos help me so much. I work for a Christian ministry and all the higher ups love the Enneagram and require it on the job application. I declined to answer that part. I don’t know how to lovingly encourage people away from the Enneagram. They are so attached to it and protective over it
I’m really glad I haven’t gone to a church that promotes it. I have gone to an event where a woman mentioned it in passing, but it was just in the sense of personality. I spoke to her about it after and she seemed open to researching it. She had mentioned it in the first place as a tool similar to Meyers-Briggs to help find what you’re good at. She made it pretty clear that even that test wouldn’t bring you closer to God but rather help you see things better, like learning something new about yourself. She didn’t call it a Christian tool either, thank God, but it’s definitely important to address the occult origins. Similarly, no one should use personality types to determine compatibility. It’s all ridiculous.
GIRL THIS POPPED UP IN MY RECOMMENDATION ON PURPOSE... I think this was actually the first video I watched today, Later on, in my time on UA-cam I watched a Faith channel and she started talking about how she was a 2 on the enneagram, i watched this travel channel (who r Christian) and they talked about the enneagram too! Btw- (todays the very first time I've heard of this enneagram) If it wasn't for this video I watched earlier today I would have gotten really deep into this enneagram stuff! Coincidence? I think not!!
Our church just had Ian Cron to present the enneagram to the congregation during the sermon. That is when I researched it and found out it’s evil roots. Thanks Melissa for this very well done video.
instead of running, bring the information to the church. Help others in your church see what it really is. If no one listens, then shake off the dust and leave.
Could you talk about things that seems harmless but are really demonic?? Like, for example, dreamcatchers and stuff like that. Thanks for the vid🧡 God bless!!
When The Most High tells us to stay away from these corruptible things He isn’t saying it to spoil our fun, He wants to preserves and keep us from spiritual bondage
THANK YOU< THANK YOU!!! I was invited to a meeting and the Holy Spirit within me gave me a huge warning. I spent the whole time doing spiritual warfare over those that were there.
This is the WORST description of the enneagram I have EVER heard. COMPLETELY inaccurate and misleading. Your 'true self' is another way of outlining your 'soul', or who you are as a person at your core, with all of the crap of life set aside and free from distracting us. An 'enlightened person' is able to arrive at that point, in a way to BETTER communicate and relate to God....as this is how God sees us too - who we are at our core. And yet this is somehow being pitched in this video - and by MANY other conservative Christians - as being 'wrong' or something we shouldn't be doing????? INSANE.
Um, were is the enneagram or "outlining your soul" in the Bible? I couldn't find it. Jesus seems to be pretty clear on how we are to correctly communicate to God in Matthew 6:9-15. And Romans 8:26-27 tells us that God the Holy Spirit CLEARLY communicates for us on a level we cannot. So there is no "way to BETTER communicate and related to God" than how He tells us to do so. Ergo, enneagram is attempts to create an unbiblical method of relating to God, apart from how He has commanded us to do so. That is called disobedience.
One way I have found it really helpful, is in understanding my wife more and improving the way I communicate with her. I guess I have found it less practically helpful for me personally - as it's a bit abstract. I believe there is value in understanding yourself, but only to a certain extent - true humility or godliness isn't thinking more or less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less (which the enneagram does not encourage - so I'm in agreement with you there)
Love the core question: Can you form your identity based on information acquired by contact with a familiar spirit? This really drives it home for me and gives me a simple way to show friends its dangers. Thanks Melissa!
It's called a loaded question, my friend. It's a common trick of deception. But maybe your friends are gullible and will believe this familiar spirit story without any evidence whatsoever.
I'll start by saying, I actually generally agree with your negative view of the enneagram. However, I don't think the arguments given are ideal and wanted to address them. Firstly, I think you make a few leaps which I'm not convinced of given your video alone. You mention this concept of true self a lot, often equating it to inner divinity, which I take issue with. I think the term true self is too vague and the leap between its raw meaning and inner divinity is too large to make such a comparison without a detailed discussion of what has lead you to such a belief. A more detailed description of your understandings of these concepts (and what links them) would be helpful for a stand-alone video of this sort. Secondly, you use a quote from some New Age teacher regarding the Enneagram as proof of its being wrapped up in these concepts of true self and inner divinity. A singular quote from an unnamed author which supports your ideas does nothing to prove them. For example, what I say about someone else (whether positive or otherwise) doesn't make it true. If you had multiple quotes from prominent authors, you might establish this to be a cultural belief held amongst big-time names within the enneagram group, but one quote from someone who did not create the enneagram doesn't prove its inherent or intended maliciousness or say much of anything about it unless it's what you want to hear. If you want to say something about the intended design or nature of the enneagram, I think your best source for a quote that holds weight would be the original author or the Enneagram Institute (which seems to be the current defacto source within the enneagram group?). Lastly, I don't like what seems like an unfounded "familiar spirit" basis you set forth regarding the enneagram. Correct me if I've missed it, but I didn't hear any proof. My problem with language like that is similar to modern progressivism throwing around the term Nazi: these terms refer to such terrible things that we want to immediately dismiss anything associated as evil without any further thought (often for fear of ourselves being associated with these ideas). You say a few things about the author of the enneagram and give a loose basis for these claims but it lacks hard evidence and could be therefore easily misrepresented. I think we have a duty to argue the best we can as a body because although the American concept of double jeopardy doesn't strictly exist outside the court system, people often decide their positions based on the first arguments they hear. Overall, I think my issue with the enneagram is very simple: it's not the Bible, but (and this is just anecdotal) it's treated as a 67th book. The Bible must always be the root. PS: I appreciate your videos on NA stuff and your openness about having at one point been victim to it.
The Enneagram is the best personality tool I know. It is a shame that Christians are attacking it just because some New Age teachers like Richard Rohr has taken advantage of it to broadcast their worldview. People in the comments say that the origins of the Enneagram is “demonic” but actually no one actually knows what its origin is. There are still so many debates about its history. I have never had any spiritual conflicts during years of studying the Enneagram (I don’t read Rohr because I know he has some weird ideas about God and spirituality). It has never replaced the Bible for me and I do not agree with everything the writers said. I just use what I find helpful.
I’ve never seen or heard of an enneagram before until last week. I didn’t really care or thought much of learning about it. But then so many people have been posting what their personality was with this. I’m so glad I came to your channel and learn not to get caught up in all the new age thinking.
I never thought the Enneagram had anything to do with religion. I just thought it was a psychological tool used to best describe your personality traits and use that to find a way out or solutions to improve yourself as a person. I don't think it has a strict religious backing to it
The enneagram doesn't need me to defend it, but I'll say I'm a pastor who teaches enneagram and have used it for years as a counseling tool with tremendous success. I think your nine minute video is more of a showcase of your not understanding what it is but maybe feeling the pressure to create content. It would go a long way if, as you say in your description, you admit that you generally don't know what it is and lack a working knowledge of it- and therefore want to dialogue about it before creating guidance for others. Instead, you render a verdict despite admitting you have more to learn. It's such a frustrating position that christians feel the need to take. It keeps us in a defensive posture yet while claiming we have the keys to life and peace. It's so tired.
Your comment makes me pretty worried that you’re a pastor and yet never mention the Gospel or the Bible. We “claim” to hold the keys to life and peace because we know Jesus, who himself is life and peace. But surely, you know this right Pastor?
I love the enneagram, but only the part where it helps me understand my own behavior and relationships. Not the 'spiritual enlightenment' part. This is the first I have heard of it. I always thought it was simply a personality test. It has helped me understand myself better. But most definitely not a 'path to enlightenment',
Completely agree, and I think it's important to discern between those who view it in that way and those who don't. For me, understanding myself leads to wisdom which leads me closer to Christ. I have been a more faithful follower because I understood why I sometimes struggle to be. But for others, they stop at the introspection. Their focus is on themselves and only themselves, and they forget to recenter their lives in Christ. While I disagreed with some points in her video, I think it's very important for the Christian community to continue making them so that those who are on the New Age path can be warned and realize that they can never save themselves.
I am so sick of people posting about their enneagram. 🤦🏻♀️ I feel like it’s their way to justify bad behavior rather than working to fix it. “Oh well, I’m an enneagram 5, I just can’t help the way I am.” 🤦🏻♀️ Also…the first ad about 3 minutes into this video was, “How does an enneagram 4 want to be loved?” 🤣🤣🤦🏻♀️
Thank you, Melissa! I am so tired of people, even those who seem to be "on-fire" Christians, introducing and defending things like yoga for themselves and in the church. It seems that most people in church don't truly understand what it means to glorify God through His bride. Ugh.
Thank you for making a shorter video about this. Hopefully, it is enough to turn some away or to look deeper on the points you have brought up. Praying about this issue! I have heard of a few people being delivered after repenting of this.
My husband was told by one of these "personality" tests that he couldn't serve in a church because his "personality" traits weren't compatible with the pastor's traits.
God's Word is His Word! we expect non-Christians to not want to believe it, but Believers??? out of boredom and discomfort? come on! at the very least, your Christianity should have you admit that you're backsliding, and not try and find excuses to make God's Word meaningless and irrelevant! man up!
I think it is dangerous when people elevate these personality ...things... to a degree where it becomes about us, especially when it has occult origins. But how do you feel about something like the MBTI? So long as we don't idolize it/live strictly within its confines. Could we see Meyers-Briggs assessment as something just to get a little understanding of ourselves without blowing it out of proportion? I've been wondering this because as a former New Ager (particularly focused on personality astrology) I'm drawn to people and how we're uniquely different from one another.
Thanks Melissa! I don't know much about the enneagram other than what I've learned from you and Marcia!! Thanks for the info! How would I address this in my church though, if I found out someone in the church is practicing enneagram?
Please hear me out. I am currently getting a degree in Christian Spiritual Formation, where we are taught to use exegesis to discover what the Bible really means. Because the truth is… the Bible only ever meant what it meant to the authors, so we need to find out what the Bible actually means instead of using hermeneutics to make the Bible mean what we THINK it means. That being said I am not being taught anything at my school that is not exegetically Biblical, but I am being taught about the enneagram. The truth is, I have studied the enneagram and know a lot about it. Like almost anything that is created, it can be used in an improper way. If you are using the enneagram like astrological signs, you are using it WRONG. A lot of people use the enneagram as an excuse for their mistakes or how they act, when in reality it is a tool to show you how you can work on yourself. Is the enneagram biblical (as in, is it in the Bible)??? No it’s not, but neither is any form of psychology and many types of medicine. You don’t have to be Christian to use the enneagram, just like you don’t have to be Christian to go get counseling. It should also be noted that you can be a Christian and get counseling, some Christians are afraid of this because they are told that they have mental disorders because they don’t have enough faith. If you are using the enneagram to give yourself divinity, YOU ARE USING IT WRONG. If you are using the enneagram to define who you are. YOU ARE USING IT WRONG. No one is one number on the enneagram. You can only resonate with a certain number most. The enneagram is not mean to put people in boxes, even though people do that all the time. If you think the enneagram is evil because of its origins, then you have to be consistent with yourself and say that yoga is evil as well. Yoga was created to worship gods, and now we use it to improve our health. I’m perfectly okay with someone being against the enneagram because of its origins, I just want their opinion to be consistent with other things with questionable origins. I have been taught that the enneagram is a very accurate personality test that can help you find out what your tendencies are, so that you can work on yourself, and set yourself up well to be healthy. As a major in Christian Spiritual Formation, they teach us the enneagram so that we can help ourselves and others become mature as we disciple them. A very small example would be, as someone who resonates with number 2, if I find that I am driven to help someone out, I can take a step back and ask myself if I sincerely want to help, or if it is because I want them to like me. If the motive for helping is bad I can correct my motive. One last thing, the enneagram is not meant to define God, that’s what the Bible is for. I don’t even know how the enneagram could define God
Not sure you can only look at the origins of things. We have such a horrific history in the church... The Bible has some horrific history in it. That would be enough to turn most people off Jesus. What we can be sure of is that all things good are from God, because God is all good. So the good in things are actually... Good. The good in yoga, which is a lot of the stretches that your kids and you will be doing before working out and after working out...is... Good. It's good for the body and God made us not disembodied people, but people that are to look after our bodies. Meditation is good and biblical.. The breathing exercises and meditation that comes from Eastern mystisysm is actually good for you. It changes your nervous system and helps the parasympathetic nervous system kick in, helping to reduce anxiety and stop illnesses. What Christians cannot seem to do, is to be able to be in the world and take the good, and leave the bad or do things, like yoga, whilst praying to God or meditating on scripture in their minds if that's what they want to to do, but still do the excersises that are actually good for them. What is it with Christians that they have to make such a fuss. So many more people would be tempted to seek out Jesus if they saw Christians in real places doing real things but still not being moved and being strong in their faith. It seems more like living in fear the way things are portrayed in these videos. Are there no Christians out there that can go into mosques and temples and reach people but still manage to hold on to their faith in Jesus. Are we simply that weak and watery?
Meditating on Scripture and Eastern Meditation are not the same thing. The latter is designed to empty the mind, the former is designed to fill it with God's word.
I don't think discernment means discarding every aspect of a thing because it has touched something wicked (demonic or otherwise), but we do have to test all things according to scripture. Is it true that people have motivations and fears that drive them more than other motivations and fears? Yes. Is it true that we can reach our "divine selves" or discover "ourselves" through the ennegram. No, since you need some self knowledge to even answer "What number do u most align with?" Also, there's the old self (the sinner) and the new creation (transformed by Christ). Therefore, the whole divine identity can be dropped. And pretty sure the problem of "she's a 4, I can't get along with her" is a general people problem that appears no matter what personality tool they use (ennegram, Myers briggs, Disc) or even don't use (for example, people can measure others by clothes worn, brand of car, way of speech or other superficial measure).
I totally agree. To be honest when I started reading the enneagramm I felt so overwhelmed and thought "Wow FINALLY someone understands me". I LOVED it and recommended it to so many people, even read it to my husband and family. Then I got informed about where it comes from etc. and wow.. This is so toxic. It's a lie that the enneagramm knows me best - it's JESUS! He's always loved me (and you!), we're made in his image with our own personality. Other personality tests etc can be helpful I think but the enneagramm is definitely deceiving. The problem is: it seems to be so close to truth but it's still not the truth. So thank you for the video, brothers and sisters let us remember Jesus loves and knows us best and HE is the one who can change and transform us day by day! God bless you all.
I think there are a few things here that need clarifying. Firstly 'inner divinity' is what Christians might call the indwelling Holy Spirit. God living in us as taught in the New Testament, the indwelling Spirit. Some of the earliest theologians talked about Jesus and said 'he became what we are, that we might become what he is'. I.e. human in union with the divine via the indwelling spirit. It's such a shame that clumsy language is being labelled 'new age' or 'occult' when it's a core christian idea. Secondly, 'true self'. While this phrase is now being used by all kinds of people, it originates in Trappist monk Thomas Merton. The true self is our self in Christ, our objective identity in God. The false self Is an identity built on anything else, status, success, appearance etc. Again a very christian idea, that we put on Christ and receive a new identity hidden in Christ in God. Again It's such a shame that clumsy language is being labelled 'new age' or 'occult' when it's a core christian idea. I think a little more nuance and a little less fear mongering would really improve your videos!
Not trying to start anything here but share another perspective- the enneagram as we know it today is a tool. Unfortunately, many tools have been misused or have unsound origins, but that doesn’t discount their helpfulness. A fantastic take on the enneagram is a book written in the 90’s called “the wisdom of the enneagram,” in which the authors describe the intent as not being to put you in a box, but to show you the box you are already in, and the way out. It’s helpful tools and terms to observe and catch the behavior that (as a Christian) keeps you from living like the new creation you are in Christ. We flippantly use terms like “type A” and “type B,” as a understood and objective way to describe someone or ourselves as having traits and habits like being more or less organized, focused, or creative. I’d ask you to consider, what’s the harm in delving into more extensive “types,” to understand ourselves and others in our life? As a Christian you don’t have to shy away from both your understanding of universal fallen human nature (the condition), and your new identity as broken-yet redeemed and righteous as a follower of Christ (the solution.) You can embrace those unchangeable truths fully while still using work done by other Christians to better understand your brokenness and what brings it out, and the ways that by God’s grace you can grow some of those broken tendencies to be more like the Jesus we follow!
When a "Christian" doesn't lift the name of Jesus in the context that it deserves, I always wonder. Mr. Rohr was not on my radar but after several videos I noticed he NEVER states that Jesus Is Lord. and that really, really bothers me. Be blessed and renew your prayer life. We are in dark times. G.
Good gracious the Bible and a persons walk with the one true God is anything but boring. The reason why these people turning to New Age practices is happening is because they don’t want to come to the one true God. First of all they would have to stop sinning. Because the Holy Spirit who is God would be living with in them leading them on a daily walk to stop what ever sin is at hand in their life at the moment. Then of course when you are a true Christian you are doing the work of the Lord and you get attacked a lot. You get a lot of demonic hits at you and that’s truly what everybody is trying to avoid. Oh that gray area in which to live is the goal of almost every Christian out there.
Funny how something intended to decode the stars and use math to map out the universe turned into an egocentric discovery tool. Vanity of vanity. I'm glad your calling this stuff out. Thats why I subscribed to this channel.
A car can be used to drive us to church, or it can be used to run over a pedestrian. The enneagram is nothing more than a vehicle. The bible doesn't talk about the use of cars does it? Some of your examples such as people using it to define their personality, and say "Oh we are / are not compatible" is a misuse of the vehicle. I assure you it's not boredom. That argument is like saying that people who use hammers to drive in nails must be board of driving in nails in with their bare hands. Is it boredom that lead man to use a car over a horse and buggy? Is it boredom that lead man to plowing a field with a tractor rather than using a mule? The enneagram if used correctly, is a vehicle that will bring one closer to god. If used incorrectly can be destructive. It's a tool. A tool to be understood and used responsibly. And if used responsibly, can be a life changing tool. You arguments are on the side of those who are irresponsible. And this should be called out. But do not throw the baby out with the bathwater, for there are those who do use it responsibly, and as a result, they become closer to God.
Melissa, speaking and affirming/declaring the word of God in your life and situations is not 'Law of Attraction'. The Lord told Moses to tell the Israelites to take note that whatever they say is what he will hear and do for them. What does that mean? Let the weak say I am strong, and let the poor say I am rich. Is this law of attraction? I think you shd read the Bible more intently
This is really interesting. I get what you're saying, but I think things like the enneagram and MBTI can be used in a positive way as tools. For example, they are great for giving other people insight into how you think/operate and vice versa. I think, just as with most things, that your intent and how you use things are more important than how or why something was created in the first place.
And as Christians, we are required to love one another despite our personality differences....whatever test or quiz you use. We are even called to love our enemies and be at peace wherever possible with them. Do we naturally get along better with certain personalities or common hobbies or shared pet peeves? Yes. But that should not be our primary focus. And Christ tells us how to get along or choose friends or spouses
I just googled Metatron and he wants to be conjured up through geometric symbolism. So that's definitely demonic. I will now be more conscious about geometric symbols.
The creepiest part about the enneagram is how scarily accurate it is. I didn’t know it was occultic at the time of taking the official test on the enneagram site but when I did read the results it literally described every single aspect of my personality to a T. Like 100%. And I’m a very deep and overly complex person so the fact it laid all things bare I was shocked. Still don’t know what to think of it but have since repented.
“My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge” - Hosea 4:1
Many Christians fall to temptation and allow spiritual attacks into our lives simply because of ignorance, and unwillingness to do research and understand why the Bible tells us this:
“Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;”
1 Timothy 4:7
Right on!
Amen!! So much truth in your comment. I could not agree more.
But this is cool & hip in many churches...everybody who is into finding out more about themselves is into it. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ So sad so many are ignorant.
Amen! I agree
🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
"Perhaps Christians have gotten bored with what the Bible has to offer, so they go and find a deeper, more thoughtful structure, like the Enneagram, appealing."
Sounds a lot like how the Israelites in the wilderness got tired of waiting for Moses to come back down from the mountain so they fashioned a golden calf for themselves instead, because it was something shiny and new.
Oof, yes, good one.
Right on, Sis!
Truth!!!
👍
True!!
If people really dive into their Bibles, they will never get bored!
Amen! The old testament is epic
@SHAMAR WASHINGTON Well tbh with you, sometimes I find certain chapters boring. Not trying to be offensive whatsoever. For example, I suffered trying to get past Numbers chapter 7. Personally I enjoy the New Testament more than the Old Testament.
Have you tried the naked bible podcast? ❤🙏
@@ElliottWong2024 I totally get it, but when you dive into the Word, and try to understand how everything points to Jesus, you’ll realize there are so much wisdom worth a life time of learning.
#facts
We have to remember that satan is also "ancient"!
Great t shirt.
Video on yoga and chakras next!!!
Agree!!!
Yes. I do stretches but I can't stand the integration of the chakra garbage.
Please!!🙌🏽
YESSSSSSSSSS PLEASE
Yes!
Wow, this explains why I felt so uncomfortable with it! I didn’t even know 😳. Also, the whole “self” discovery, SELF actualization, SELF SELF SELF thing bugs the snot out of me. Can we just forget ourselves?
i think without knowing oneself, it's hard to know the things around us authentically. yes, i agree the Bible teaches us about being selfless and letting God and others be the focus on our lives and not ourselves. However, i believe they are speaking about different things ultimately. I see your point, but i don't think that's the point of Enneagram or personality tests or self-knowledge at all. How should we love others as ourselves if we don't even know our own deepest desires and fears? If this doesn't matter, much of therapy and counselling probably wouldn't be of much value either, but I guess you wouldn't agree with that. Whether Enneagram is a good tool for self-knowledge or not, that is one thing; whether self-knowledge is essential or not, is another. And i believe self-knowledge is essential to perceiving the things around us as real as we can.
I'm still not sure where I stand on this issue. I see both sides for now. But does anyone remember the song that goes "let's forget about ourselves, and magnify the Lord, He's coming soon?" This comment reminded me of that. I love that song💕
ua-cam.com/video/moDeHc2t_zs/v-deo.html
Can we just DIE to ourselves as the Bible calls us to do?
So many believers are practicing divination and don't think its a big deal. (enneagram, astrology, angel cards, etc) Even though the Bible expressly forbids it.
Its all witchcraft
Not forgetting yoga and meditation
I agree and people think its harmless. I think they are omignorant and just don't know any better. I think we should always be lead by the Holy Spirit.
Then are they believers
I remember feeling a bit left out couple years ago when everyone was like “I’m number blah blah blah.” But for some reason .. never moved forward taking the test. It seemed weird to me. I understand now that it was the Holy Spirit protecting me...giving me discernment. 😳🙏🏼
Me, too, it just seemed simplistic and stupid. Who can discern the mind of the Lord--or the mind of His followers?
I did take the test, but my results were "no doesn't make sense... No doesn't make sense.. bye" its funny because that was all before I became a Christian and then later begin seeing videos how it's not good
Right.
a friend sent it to me and wanted me to take it. I had never heard of it but I'm not interested in personality tests of any kind. I tried to take it to appease her, but I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't get the site to work, or open, or whatever. I just said, sorry, I guess I'm too stupid to take this thing.
Same thing with me as a child but with horoscopes/zodiacs... i always found that stuff dumb and fake thank God i never picked up interest in it and never will
Your identity should be in Christ, not in a number or trait.
This sums it up.
The enneagram doesn't give you an identity, it's just a tool to find possible ways you are veering away from Christ so you can "shed the old man".
Am I the only person who didn't even know what an enneagram was before watching these type videos? 🤣
@Nicholas Mancinelli: 🙋 clueless one here too...
This new creature in Christ had never heard about it before.
I am glad to now be informed of this pitfall. Many thanks to Melissa.
I had never heard of it before this excellent video
This is scary because I got a degree from a Christian University that taught and used this. Thank you for your channel, it's really helping me recognize that I've essentially been apart of a church, which I left 6 months ago that was occultish and new age. They even started practicing sozo. I couldn't run fast enough.
Reading the whole bible is important because this is divination seeking wisdom from spirits aka demons instead of seeking wisdom from God.
Thank you for this video. I fell into this trap and nobody ever explained it was wrong. Better to read the Bible and watch God change us.
@@ziz.ranchero But as Christians God can change anything, and anyone. The Enneagram implies we’re going to be like our type forever, but the Bible says that just isn’t true (when you think about all the types represent a certain sin too) so we should look to God not to this stuff. I fell into the enneagram and am still trying to climb out of personality typology, I don’t think there’s anyway I can use it to help spread the Gospel, Jesus is all we need!
@@taylorcunningham7931 exactly. Interesting correlation with the seven points as well.
"Here are six things the Lord despises, yea even seven".
Enneagram excuses sin as "personality" and deceives even Christians into not realizing what they need to repent of and entrust to Jesus Christ. It lulls you into comfort, thinking you have nothing to be forgiven for, which is the ultimate path to destruct. It's heartbreaking.
Spirits aren’t necessarily demons, WE are spirits in physical form. I’m certainly not a demon. Our outside and our perspective is based off our inside, what we think, how we talk to ourselves, how were programmed to see the world and ourselves. God provided EVERYTHING. It’s what we DO with what is available.
I prefer the repentagram
;)
☺ good one!
Pentagram you say?
The biggest problem with personality tests like these is that they take your focus from the Lord, back to yourself. They stoke your ego, your pride. They do not further your walk with Christ; they do not glorify Him.
Well said! My thoughts exactly!
Exactly, the make you look inwards instead of upwards!
Amen
I absolutely agree with this! I was really into the “16 personalities” test a couple of years ago, and it started being weird, like I inadvertently had my whole personality fit into 1 of the 16, and it limited my life in so many ways that I didn’t even realize... And it was actually somewhat like an idol 🤔😨🤭 Glad that it’s in the past now, but I gotta pay better attention from now on 😪
@@JulianCaesaro Yeah, this is exactly how I've felt recently, thanks for sharing!
My pastor referenced this in church yesterday, but briefly. I don't touch it. I'm beginning to see New Age practices in so many things.
Learning that the 'enneotypes' were channelled from a spirit via automatic writing leads me to put use of the enneagram under the category of consulting mediums. Consulting channelled material is the same as consulting a medium, it's just what the medium wrote down. Consulting mediums is clearly forbidden in Scripture so I don't know how any Christian can get around that. They burnt all the demonic witchcraft books and writings in Acts. Unfortunately I've heard Christians I love and respect defend using it as 'taking something the enemy meant for evil and using it for good' or 'redeeming it'. How do you redeem something that came from the mouth of a demon? And why would we be at all interested in what a demon might have to say about our personality when they are under the direction of the father of lies?
Hello. I hope you are doing well today. I just wanted to let you know that there's actually no proof that that happened someone I think just made that up. sometimes people who are very legalistic in the faith will create ideas and stories in order to debunk them when actually there's no real evidence to that.
@@rabbig777 Hi Mark, there is literally a video of an interview with Claudio Naranjo, the creator of the enneagram personality types, where he says how he channelled it from a spirit via automatic writing. I don't know how there could be any more solid evidence than that. Feel free to look it up of Doreen Virtue's channel, it's titled 'Proof that the enneagram is new age, not Christian'. We're not being sensationalist or legalistic, the guy literally said it himself.
@@annabel6038 Yes, I watched that. The man next to Naranjo even repeated "automatic writing?" and Naranjo affirmed this and no one took him to task over it.
only Jesus can turn what the enemy meant for evil.
@@sarahthompson1407 Hi Sarah, I've heard this argument used before to defend Christians using new age tools like the enneagram, but unfortunately it's based on false application of that verse out of context. In Genesis 50:20, Joseph tells his brothers 'what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this-to preserve the lives of many people.' They had sold him into slavery, but God is so sovereign and powerful that he can achieve His will even through man's evil choices. This verse is about God's power and sovereignty. It's absolutely not giving permission for people to engage in sinful occult practices and say that God has redeemed it.
There is not one instance of occult practices being 'turned' for good. Every time occult practices are mentioned in the Bible they are utterly condemned as an abomination and God is very clear that we are to have nothing to do with it. He tells the Israelites to tear down the altars of other nations' idols. They are not to worship Him as the pagans worship their gods (Deut 12:31). In the New Testament, the new believers publicly burned their spellbooks (Acts 19:19) and we are warned that Christians will be led astray by 'doctrines of demons' (1 Tim. 4:1). We have concrete proof that the enneagram is straight from a demon. Sarah, I pray that you are not led astray!
I learned about the enneagram last year from a Christian friend and thought it was a neat tool to use for improvement. Once I learned of my number I became fascinated with learning as much as I could about it. In time I started to feel unease about it. It highlighted aspects of my childhood that seemed inescapable and pointed to it as my identity. Our identity is not to be grounded in worldly ideals but in our Father Himself. I now see the Holy Spirit was moving in me.
one thing I have noticed is that Christians who follow deceptive ways end up embracing those ways and leaving a relationshoip Christ, but they often don't realize it..
Isn’t that terrifying?
Agreed! There is a woman from my church who is cleaving unto false teachings. Since she started leaning away, she has been "tired" and needing a lot more "personal time" to recharge. It is because she is not being refreshed in the Lord.
2 Timothy 3:5 KJV - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
this, zodiac, astrology ,etc. They have truth in them, but they deny the TRUTH.
You have misunderstood the scripture and there is no TRUTH in those. Salvation is the only TRUE way. This scripture is speaking specifically to discerning false followers who appear to have a form of godliness but deny the power. May God help them. So individuals who deny the Holy Spirit and His gifts and do not agree and live by the doctrine and who do not heed to the Spirit. Also Christians need to stop with all this zodiac nonsense. Study to show yourselves approved.
You have so well said. A form
It's been so long since I was taken in by new age jibber-jabber, but I can still spot that kind of twisted talk given by this author at 05:03. I would add this. When a Christian gets "bored" with the Bible and wants something new, they will surely search until they find it. This is a dangerous place to be. That's why pastors have such a burden placed on them: "...Preach the word....reprove, rebuke, exhort....for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires..." 2 Tim 4:2,3.
Also, I don't really understand how you can even get bored with the bible. There's just way too much to unpack for that. And (especially the new testament writers) and genuinely engaging!! It's not lacking in sense of humor or pros. Anyone who thinks they're bores of the bible is reading it the wrong way.
It is wonderful to see a young woman who sees the deception invading the church and explains it well. God bless u daugther of the Most High God
One of the pastors in my church is constantly posting about the enneagram, and it’s never sat right with me, even without me knowing anything about it. Maybe time to find a new church... Thank you for this video, your videos have helped me so much! God bless you🙏🏼
It's not a small issue but it's not heresy. By all means correct me, but it sounds like you're waiting for a reason to leave your church. Maybe you should. But your relationship to your pastor and your commitment to your local body is a very important and meaningful thing that you shouldn't dismiss so easily. Bring it up to the pastor like the word says in Matthew 18.
This is why I no longer go to church... I go to the Catholic ones and theres incence, altars and hail marys, I go to more modern ones and theyre talking about prosperity and superpowers, i went to a church of england, they went on bashing trump... I wish I could go to an orthodox service but its in greek 🤷♀️😂. I dont know...I wish I had a church
@@KKKaTTT123 Lots of good Biblical churches. Go to their webpage and look at "our beliefs" and test it to Scripture (1 The 5:21; Acts 17:11). If the church doesn't post their beliefs, then don't go. They could be hiding something.
Thoughts on Myers Briggs Type Indicator?
As a personlity type nerd (for the purposeof understanding people) I love hearing Christian perspectives about these things
You’re awfully young to be so wise but I must say I greatly appreciate it your commentary on the majority of things that you are gracious enough to share with me truly helps God bless you Melissa and keep doing what you’re doing
I was deep in the Enneagram for a couple years and then last year during the pandemic, I discovered the truth and I was set free from the Enneagram. So thankful for people like you getting the word out there!
Wowser Melissa. My daughter introduced me to the Enneagram about 6 weeks ago or so. I had never heard of it. We went through the questions to get to my type and I found the information about my number to pretty accurately describe some aspects of my personality. I did a quick search, found a few websites, and did some reading. And then thought to myself, this stuff seems off. I left it where I found it that day. But she is into it. She mentioned it again this past week. I made a mental note of her mention but did not acknowledge it during our conversation. And here you are shining a light on the lie of it all. Thank you!
And no, my daughter is not a Christian. Please keep her in your prayers.
Your daughter is incredibly smart and if I were you, I would much rather listen to her than this false Prophet. I invite you to read Luke 17:20-21. Enneagram will give you a close glimpse of the Kingdom of God that lies within us, just as Jesus promised us.
@@RoopaDudleyPaintings rubbish
This reminds me of Numerology. It has personality types besed on numbers.
Dear Melissa,
There are things in the world (like science, psychology, therapy, activities, medicine). Now any group can go and claim these things (unless it originated in a certain culture). A good example is the term and practice of meditation. The world connects it to eastern religions but if we strip it down to the core it is a very helpful practice that just happens to be part of a religious life (like praying and studying scripture). Personally I find it to be a loss for Christians that a vast majority doesn't do certain things because another group has claimed it.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's very important to not hype something like the Enneagram and make life choices based on it (I'm with you, that is so so dangerous in our walk with Christ) but your Richard Rohr argument sounds to me a little bit like: the doctor who invented the cure for cancer was not a Christian/didn't live a Christian lifestyle as I'd like to see it, therefore I reject the cure.
In this logic you'd have to reject als medicine and cure there is on earth because you believe that only by the power of God's spirit you can be healed and everything that is not directly coming from there is evil.
To take our mental health seriously and seek professional help or help like the Enneagramm to understand oneself better does not go against the bible. The way we do it, how we hope to find all healing and solution in a pill or treatment, that is mighty dangerous but to lay all things at the feet of Jesus and make it obedient to him and serve him.
(Of course I believe there are certain practices that the bible explicitly warns us not to observe and other behavior that makes us rather walk away from Christ than towards him and that should be considered. But it's not black and white)
Just another pentagram lol.
I had no idea about this until late last year and I first suspected something was fishy because it took my focus off of God but I placed it on myself. Then I discovered the origins and was shocked. I was deceived and praise Jesus I don’t use the enneagram anymore.
I have to say I didn't even get that far because as soon as I saw the shape itself -- my brain waved a red flag and went, WHAT IS THIS?!?
But yeah, so creepy really to hear the origin story discussion between Melissa and the others!
Same!
@Bailey Patterson I saw a video by Alisa Childers on it last year, when learned of it's true occultic origin.. I was shocked like you, because the churches were promoting it, so had no idea. I'm happy that I was already long gone from it as I never got that much into it at all.. maybe a few months? because like you, I felt it took my focus off of Jesus and instead onto myself.. . It was wrong.. its almost like a religion..ღ
@@Jessica_Jones Praise God for your quick awarenessღ
I had a similar thing, someone presented if to me as just a fun personality test. I did it, and thought it was cool, but a few months later began to see youtube videos pop up from trustworthy people who condemned it. I put off looking into it out of pride; I didn't want to know I had been deceived. Looking back, some things didn't quite sit right, and the "formula" for "becoming a better person" just seemed off. I thought people were too obsessed with it. Now, I try to let others know ths truth, especually those who I've discussed it with.
Thank you so much for this bc I had never heard about this until I became a leader in a homeschool group and EVERYBODY kept asking me, “what’s your enneagram number?” I had no idea, but kept being told what I was or why they did what they did.....I felt like we were all being put into a box. I was always a little uneasy with it.
Yoga next. Another one that Christians are apathetic to.
First time hearing about this. But the second I saw it reminded me of the pentagram..
Yeah. Different things entirely
I LOVED the enneagram...until I learned it’s origins. Now I’ve been telling friends/family and am so discouraged at how unreceptive they are.
I’ve been told things like “God redeems” or “it’s just a tool” .
I’ve stopped being as vocal and am just praying God opens the churches eyes.
I told my friend about them this morning because she posted a book "Bible Verses for Ennegrams" or something like that. I told her these are new age/occult and not something Christians should be a part of. But she said "there's no wrong way to get into God's Word".... Unfortunately there is.
I’ve had the same thing happen in my conversations. I think it’s indicative of someone pursuing ‘rightness’ as opposed to righteousness.
You must stand for truth, then the Lord is your defender!
I would explain to them that the Enneagram has the same roots & really is the same thing as Astrology which the Bible clearly condemns.
They will say, no, it's just psychology. Then you can ask which psychologists developed it through human studies over a period of time (like all psychology is developed). They won't find an answer to this.
There's also a video with one of the founders himself saying this information was given to him through automatic writing and spirit channeling. It's not science. Not psychology. It's now being used in professional psychology (much like other new age tools), but it's not a scientifically developed psychological tool.
I had to leave a church cause of the staff using it and saying it changed their lives. No repentance of it at all
Girl, so FREAKY! I literally just messaged a friend of mine this morning because I can tell, even though she says she loves Jesus, that she is going over to the new age side of things. She shared a pic of a "Bible Verses for Enneagrams" book so I told her about Enneagrams. Not sure if it was received well, but I did it with love and that's all I can do.
I once shared with a church sister that astrology was witchcraft. She had NO idea... she was grateful I let her know! Praise God
Wow
@@karenwebber9200 me too! It's shocking how Christians don't know that occultism and astrology and witchcraft was Israel's idols God punished punished for
I was intrigued until I *saw* the diagram. Then I was repulsed, because it just looked occultic.
Same here!
It is.
Yes, I'm very into understanding people's psychology, so was intrigued when a few Christian friends told me about the enneagram.... until I looked at it myself. My very first thought was how occultic it looked. First red flag.
I know, like I was going to have some of my abuela’s “cabrito” the other day and then I said, “No way, abuela, this cabrito is like real goat! Goats are satanic!” That’s a red flag, “¡Si mon!”
Good video, Melissa! Thank you. The Ennegram was one of my last "tools" when I was in the NA, along with contemplative meditation. Both were useless because there was no change in me. I'm seeking and cherishing the holy spirit now for true healing of my ❤
This is kind of confusing. I don’t use the enneagram at all but your definition of it wasn’t how I’ve ever seen it used. It definitely has occult roots but this is kind of misleading.
It’s been described as a tool to help you see where you have weaknesses because of your personality type or causes like trauma etc and then to help you be aware and work through them. It’s not at all used like astrology to blame your personality on a “type”.
So that explains better why churches fell for this.
And for all the people saying your identity should be in Christ: YES. But identity and personality are different things. We all have the same identity as sons and daughters of God but we all have different personalities and we can’t deny that there are personality types.
Should we use that as a means to attain anything or define ourselves? NO
But I don’t think that’s why any churches have used it. It’s used differently and that’s how they never even looked at the roots of this thing before running with it.
Adding to this, if you look up the definition of 'identity', it refers to the collective caracteristics of a group that tells them apart from the rest, meanwhile 'personality' is the _individual_ caracteristics of someone.
Several people can have the same identity, but have different personalities, since the former is collective and the latter individual
I’m reading Rohr’s book now and finding the “secret” is the enneagram will draw you away from God to Rohr’s universal believing in all religions lead to God, with this “tool” of destruction. Good teaching, Melissa!!!
I’m curious about your thoughts on the Myers Briggs type indicator. While, as far as I know, it doesn’t have roots in the occult, I see it used in the same way as the enneagram a lot of the time. Some people see it as a way to better understand their preferences and behaviors rather than finding their “true self,” but I can see how it could also be a way to elevate self over Christ.
I had to do the Myers Briggs for college (degree in HR), but I never thought of it as religion. Maybe because I went to a Christian college or maybe because I'm strong in my faith (Lutheran, LCMS).
From what I do know about the Myers break typing, comma it is far more influenced by unions psychology than anything else, At the very least it was young who came up with the cognitive functions functions on which the typing is based
These functions have more to do with how individuals individuals interpret and react to stimulus then it has to do with an ego driven view of the world
When I worked in the Catholic hospital,we were having a problem with a new charge nurse who disregarded most of what we told her. As experienced nurses,we could tell before the vital signs crashed that the patient was going downhill. The patient needed to be a higher priority. Unless that patient's vital signs were in the dumpster,she refused to even have interest. The reason I tell you this is because the nuns also owned the College of St. Catherine. They arranged an evening for floats to cover the evening shift. Then all of us had dinner at the college,and took a Briggs Meyer personality test. There was a professor who interpreted our results. She used a discussion to talk about the problems we were having. It turns out the new charge nurse was strictly scientific and wanted only hard facts. The rest of us scored intuitive which the professor explained as being able to notice small changes in our patients that would lead to a change in their condition.
Since the charge nurse now understood our reasoning process,she changed her behavior. Intuitive doesn't mean psychic though some people think it does. It just means that a person unconsciously picks up signals from another person or situation. It saved her job.
I would recommend checking out content from David Hunt or the Berean Call ministry. Like this channel, he's exposed many occult practices and has talked about Carl Jung and Myers Briggs.
Is anyone reading their Bible ?
Apparently not because we're even having this conversation
Humor just the way I like it.
Dry as the Sahara.
I'll be honest and admit that I was not regularly reading my Bible until fairly recently. I seriously believed that I just didn't have time. How sad and ridiculous is that? Anyway, even just after a couple of months of TRULY SEARCHING the word, I already feel so much more aware and able to understand the world around me and why so many of the rules given to Christians in the new testament (which people always try to dismiss or weasle their way out of) actually make sense!!!
Honestly, there are even people I know who DO read their bible every day, but do so with a specific devotional or only one verse out of time out of context and they have no more insight on what is truly intended by God through the writers than they did before.
As 4w3, INTJ, Phlegmatic, Ravenclaw, and Leo setting on Virgo. I think you are spot on. Well said.
lol
There’s nothing wrong about being a Leo. Just don’t make it your identity or be delusional about not being an actual cat.
I keep on hearing Christians say 'What the enemy meant for evil, God meant for good' as an argument to defend Christians using the enneagram when they learn of its demonic origins. That's based on false application of that verse out of context. In Genesis 50:20, Joseph tells his brothers 'what you intended against me for evil, God intended for good, in order to accomplish a day like this-to preserve the lives of many people.' They had sold him into slavery, but God is so sovereign and powerful that he can achieve His will even through man's evil choices. This verse is about God's power and sovereignty. It's absolutely not giving permission for people to engage in sinful occult practices and say that God has redeemed it.
There is not one instance of occult practices being 'turned' for good. Every time occult practices are mentioned in the Bible they are utterly condemned as an abomination and God is very clear that we are to have nothing to do with it. He tells the Israelites to tear down the altars of other nations' idols. They are not to worship Him as they worship their Gods (Deut 12:31). In the New Testament, the new believers publicly burned their spellbooks (Acts 19:19) and we are warned that Christians will be led astray by 'doctrines of demons' (1 Tim 4:1). We have concrete proof that the enneagram is straight from a demon. Praying that people who use this argument dig into Scripture and are not led astray!
Our true self is that we are sinners in need of God's grace; and we find that grace at the foot of the cross.
I attended several classes on this at my former church and for a while I thought it was rather interesting. But all the teachers of the enneagram at this church always began with explaining that it really wasn't thus and such. If you have to start out explaining something by saying it really isn't this, you're in trouble, you are not the real deal.
Good point. My mum's friend is one of those "enneagram coaches" and she told us to not believe people who said it was pagan, because "it has nothing to do with that." I believed her at first.
The phrase, "This isn't for everybody, so..." comes to mind.
@@chekovcall2286 , Yep, because Jesus IS for everybody.
We used this at a Christian workplace and I participated in taking the test :(immediately when seeing the picture of the emneagram, something felt wrong about it. I should have listened to that feeling and I regret participating. I should have learned by now that even if something seems innocent or not that big of a deal, and even if I cannot pinpount why it feels wrong, I should just not do it. Jesus please help me stay away from bad things from now on and to listen to you when you warn me 🙏
I view the enneagram similarly to the love languages or the “lion/otter/golden retriever” personality quiz, and it helped my husband and I put words to how we viewed or processed things around us/events. Similarly to the love languages. Never used to find our “true selves” - just help articulate why we act or respond the way we do in different situations. Although obviously it’s not perfect because we’re all different. But it did help me not feel like an outcast in feeling a certain way about things. A personality quiz that you answer questions for is vastly different than the star signs that are based off a birthday. I hate that comparison. A better comparison would be love languages or another personality quiz like the Myers Briggs or something.
Thank you for the heads up. This video reminded me a lot of a friend who used to be atheist and heavily into the spirituality stuff and yoga in particular and now can’t practice yoga because she knows the spiritual meaning behind each pose and doesn’t think other Christians should either. I’ve always avoided hippie type yoga and looked for more stretch-based “yoga” because it felt weird with the stuff they would say.
I am in no way “bored of the Bible” because I like personality quizzes even if they’re as silly as my organizing style or “my color quiz”. As long as people aren’t making it their main identity or idolizing any of these things and putting God and the Bible first, I think people can use a lot of “worldly” things in a God-honoring way.
Condemning people for using or doing something that they didn’t know the roots of does seem a bit self-righteous. I don’t know if any of this will make sense to anyone, but that’s my unpopular opinion I guess.
I have seen the enneagram stuff but never heard of the history. Honestly I think in part the enneagram looks at the psychology of one's personality. I agree it doesn't give me my identity and people need to be careful about it. I think of it as a tool. One may fall into a black and white fallacy here thinking this is all bad. I will give you an anecdotal instance. My family, friends and I looked at the psychology behind the enneagram and saw that it was helpful to understand certain personalities. But there was some untrue aspects about it, so we disregarded those things. I don't think it is something to be preached in the church necessarily. I think one just needs to understand what it is and the history and maybe just focus on the psychology of it.
I always thought it was a freaky looking thing. Looks like something used for witchcraft.
I completely agree that some Christians may be looking for external meaning and that putting the focus on themselves alone can lead them down a dark path, but I just don't think the core problem is necessarily that it has origins in familiar spirits. The only connection it has with the occult is the structure, the design. As you said, personality traits were only introduced later with their roots in some verified psychology. So if a Christian only uses it for that purpose, and disregards any New Age ideas of "enlightenment" and their "true self," I believe the Enneagram can be used to bring them closer to God. For me, understanding why I sometimes fail in my walk with God through the lens of my type has allowed me to overcome those habits and carry on in the fight. What does any of that have to do with spirits or the New Age? I believe that what the Enneagram was in the 1800s has nothing to do with what it is today, and is therefore not *inherently* dangerous. Only when it is used for extra-biblical purposes can it truly become a weapon of the enemy.
I hear about enneagram all the time in a Christian community and people praise how it's changes their lives. JESUS changes lives! Not the enneagram.
Our church staff has been using this. They have also been promoting a book by Peter Scazzero titled “Emotionally Healthy Spirituality”. I read the first two chapters and had a lot of red flags. Lots of “true self” talk. Could you please comment on this.
Depending on the denomination, it sounds like the practitioners have an allegorical POV of the bible.
You still are obligated to show them via scriptures the warnings in Lev, and Deut as well as the NT warnings about being deceived and the punishment for heresy. Many people do not believe in hell or in the Day of the Lord. If they don't listen, move on. Someone corrected me once and it made a difference. (:
Interesting because I'm actually reading it right now. I agree that at first a lot of it seemed interesting, but getting to the latter half of the book, it provides practices that are very biblical and focus entirely on relationship with the Lord as the source of our growth and change. Pulling in the importance of the Sabbath. Just my thoughts. Haven't finished the book yet
I had several books on this and the personality types that I had purchased many, many years ago. I had read through them, answered the questions to get my personality type, and had things highlighted as though it was divine insight. I forgot that I had them - they were boxed away and forgotten about until a recent move when I found them. I threw them out in the trash. I suggest anyone who has books about it to do the same.
You should have burned it. I want to burn any book I read that could lead ppl away
@@strangerinmoscow6858 No, you should recycle it! Burning might be therapeutic but it releases a load of carbon into the atmosphere which isn't good. Much better that you tear the pages out and put them in with your paper recycling ♻️. That way they can make it into something that is ACTUALLY useful (such as toilet roll!)
@@naomispencer2696 A toilet roll! Haha, that is funny. I give my false teaching books to our pet rabbits, they tear them up good!!
@@strangerinmoscow6858 I live in a residential development that doesn't allow any kind of burning.
@@TheNickels86 I have rabbits...didn't think about that
New Age got woven into my Christian faith when I was an impressionable student at a Christian college. Now even 6-10 years later, I am still finding elements of New Age that I need to prune away from my belief system and these videos help me so much. I work for a Christian ministry and all the higher ups love the Enneagram and require it on the job application. I declined to answer that part. I don’t know how to lovingly encourage people away from the Enneagram. They are so attached to it and protective over it
Does "ancient" make anything reliable?
I’m really glad I haven’t gone to a church that promotes it. I have gone to an event where a woman mentioned it in passing, but it was just in the sense of personality. I spoke to her about it after and she seemed open to researching it.
She had mentioned it in the first place as a tool similar to Meyers-Briggs to help find what you’re good at. She made it pretty clear that even that test wouldn’t bring you closer to God but rather help you see things better, like learning something new about yourself. She didn’t call it a Christian tool either, thank God, but it’s definitely important to address the occult origins. Similarly, no one should use personality types to determine compatibility. It’s all ridiculous.
Core should never be finding 'real self'....but finding Jesus. The Truth, Way and Life.
GIRL THIS POPPED UP IN MY RECOMMENDATION ON PURPOSE... I think this was actually the first video I watched today, Later on, in my time on UA-cam I watched a Faith channel and she started talking about how she was a 2 on the enneagram, i watched this travel channel (who r Christian) and they talked about the enneagram too! Btw- (todays the very first time I've heard of this enneagram) If it wasn't for this video I watched earlier today I would have gotten really deep into this enneagram stuff! Coincidence? I think not!!
Our church just had Ian Cron to present the enneagram to the congregation during the sermon. That is when I researched it and found out it’s evil roots. Thanks Melissa for this very well done video.
instead of running, bring the information to the church. Help others in your church see what it really is. If no one listens, then shake off the dust and leave.
Could you talk about things that seems harmless but are really demonic?? Like, for example, dreamcatchers and stuff like that. Thanks for the vid🧡
God bless!!
When The Most High tells us to stay away from these corruptible things He isn’t saying it to spoil our fun, He wants to preserves and keep us from spiritual bondage
THANK YOU< THANK YOU!!! I was invited to a meeting and the Holy Spirit within me gave me a huge warning. I spent the whole time doing spiritual warfare over those that were there.
This is the WORST description of the enneagram I have EVER heard. COMPLETELY inaccurate and misleading. Your 'true self' is another way of outlining your 'soul', or who you are as a person at your core, with all of the crap of life set aside and free from distracting us. An 'enlightened person' is able to arrive at that point, in a way to BETTER communicate and relate to God....as this is how God sees us too - who we are at our core. And yet this is somehow being pitched in this video - and by MANY other conservative Christians - as being 'wrong' or something we shouldn't be doing????? INSANE.
Um, were is the enneagram or "outlining your soul" in the Bible? I couldn't find it. Jesus seems to be pretty clear on how we are to correctly communicate to God in Matthew 6:9-15. And Romans 8:26-27 tells us that God the Holy Spirit CLEARLY communicates for us on a level we cannot. So there is no "way to BETTER communicate and related to God" than how He tells us to do so. Ergo, enneagram is attempts to create an unbiblical method of relating to God, apart from how He has commanded us to do so. That is called disobedience.
God is way more creative than this little test
One way I have found it really helpful, is in understanding my wife more and improving the way I communicate with her. I guess I have found it less practically helpful for me personally - as it's a bit abstract. I believe there is value in understanding yourself, but only to a certain extent - true humility or godliness isn't thinking more or less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less (which the enneagram does not encourage - so I'm in agreement with you there)
Love the core question: Can you form your identity based on information acquired by contact with a familiar spirit?
This really drives it home for me and gives me a simple way to show friends its dangers. Thanks Melissa!
It's called a loaded question, my friend. It's a common trick of deception. But maybe your friends are gullible and will believe this familiar spirit story without any evidence whatsoever.
If you have to ask yourself if something offends a Holy God, it probably does... Think about that.
Amen!
Right. He is a jealous God in that He wants no other gods to have you and abuse you.
I'll start by saying, I actually generally agree with your negative view of the enneagram. However, I don't think the arguments given are ideal and wanted to address them.
Firstly, I think you make a few leaps which I'm not convinced of given your video alone. You mention this concept of true self a lot, often equating it to inner divinity, which I take issue with. I think the term true self is too vague and the leap between its raw meaning and inner divinity is too large to make such a comparison without a detailed discussion of what has lead you to such a belief. A more detailed description of your understandings of these concepts (and what links them) would be helpful for a stand-alone video of this sort.
Secondly, you use a quote from some New Age teacher regarding the Enneagram as proof of its being wrapped up in these concepts of true self and inner divinity. A singular quote from an unnamed author which supports your ideas does nothing to prove them. For example, what I say about someone else (whether positive or otherwise) doesn't make it true. If you had multiple quotes from prominent authors, you might establish this to be a cultural belief held amongst big-time names within the enneagram group, but one quote from someone who did not create the enneagram doesn't prove its inherent or intended maliciousness or say much of anything about it unless it's what you want to hear. If you want to say something about the intended design or nature of the enneagram, I think your best source for a quote that holds weight would be the original author or the Enneagram Institute (which seems to be the current defacto source within the enneagram group?).
Lastly, I don't like what seems like an unfounded "familiar spirit" basis you set forth regarding the enneagram. Correct me if I've missed it, but I didn't hear any proof. My problem with language like that is similar to modern progressivism throwing around the term Nazi: these terms refer to such terrible things that we want to immediately dismiss anything associated as evil without any further thought (often for fear of ourselves being associated with these ideas). You say a few things about the author of the enneagram and give a loose basis for these claims but it lacks hard evidence and could be therefore easily misrepresented.
I think we have a duty to argue the best we can as a body because although the American concept of double jeopardy doesn't strictly exist outside the court system, people often decide their positions based on the first arguments they hear. Overall, I think my issue with the enneagram is very simple: it's not the Bible, but (and this is just anecdotal) it's treated as a 67th book. The Bible must always be the root.
PS: I appreciate your videos on NA stuff and your openness about having at one point been victim to it.
The Enneagram is the best personality tool I know. It is a shame that Christians are attacking it just because some New Age teachers like Richard Rohr has taken advantage of it to broadcast their worldview. People in the comments say that the origins of the Enneagram is “demonic” but actually no one actually knows what its origin is. There are still so many debates about its history. I have never had any spiritual conflicts during years of studying the Enneagram (I don’t read Rohr because I know he has some weird ideas about God and spirituality). It has never replaced the Bible for me and I do not agree with everything the writers said. I just use what I find helpful.
I’ve never seen or heard of an enneagram before until last week. I didn’t really care or thought much of learning about it. But then so many people have been posting what their personality was with this. I’m so glad I came to your channel and learn not to get caught up in all the new age thinking.
Hello. I just wanted to clarify it is not new age thinking. Someone just labeled it that. Hope you have a wonderful day.
@@rabbig777 The video expresses why it is new age thinking. God bless you and keep you.
I never thought the Enneagram had anything to do with religion. I just thought it was a psychological tool used to best describe your personality traits and use that to find a way out or solutions to improve yourself as a person. I don't think it has a strict religious backing to it
The enneagram doesn't need me to defend it, but I'll say I'm a pastor who teaches enneagram and have used it for years as a counseling tool with tremendous success. I think your nine minute video is more of a showcase of your not understanding what it is but maybe feeling the pressure to create content. It would go a long way if, as you say in your description, you admit that you generally don't know what it is and lack a working knowledge of it- and therefore want to dialogue about it before creating guidance for others. Instead, you render a verdict despite admitting you have more to learn. It's such a frustrating position that christians feel the need to take. It keeps us in a defensive posture yet while claiming we have the keys to life and peace. It's so tired.
Your comment makes me pretty worried that you’re a pastor and yet never mention the Gospel or the Bible. We “claim” to hold the keys to life and peace because we know Jesus, who himself is life and peace. But surely, you know this right Pastor?
"Everywhere you look, you'll see what you're looking for."
I love the enneagram, but only the part where it helps me understand my own behavior and relationships. Not the 'spiritual enlightenment' part. This is the first I have heard of it. I always thought it was simply a personality test. It has helped me understand myself better. But most definitely not a 'path to enlightenment',
Completely agree, and I think it's important to discern between those who view it in that way and those who don't. For me, understanding myself leads to wisdom which leads me closer to Christ. I have been a more faithful follower because I understood why I sometimes struggle to be. But for others, they stop at the introspection. Their focus is on themselves and only themselves, and they forget to recenter their lives in Christ. While I disagreed with some points in her video, I think it's very important for the Christian community to continue making them so that those who are on the New Age path can be warned and realize that they can never save themselves.
How can anyone look at that circle and not think it's witchcraft? (It totally is)
Sounds like people don't want to know in depth what the bible says. Also what people think they know about vs what the bible actually says.
I am so sick of people posting about their enneagram. 🤦🏻♀️ I feel like it’s their way to justify bad behavior rather than working to fix it. “Oh well, I’m an enneagram 5, I just can’t help the way I am.” 🤦🏻♀️ Also…the first ad about 3 minutes into this video was, “How does an enneagram 4 want to be loved?” 🤣🤣🤦🏻♀️
Do you have a video about familiar spirits?
Thank you, Melissa! I am so tired of people, even those who seem to be "on-fire" Christians, introducing and defending things like yoga for themselves and in the church. It seems that most people in church don't truly understand what it means to glorify God through His bride. Ugh.
Thank you for making a shorter video about this. Hopefully, it is enough to turn some away or to look deeper on the points you have brought up. Praying about this issue! I have heard of a few people being delivered after repenting of this.
My husband was told by one of these "personality" tests that he couldn't serve in a church because his "personality" traits weren't compatible with the pastor's traits.
God's Word is His Word! we expect non-Christians to not want to believe it, but Believers??? out of boredom and discomfort? come on! at the very least, your Christianity should have you admit that you're backsliding, and not try and find excuses to make God's Word meaningless and irrelevant! man up!
I think it is dangerous when people elevate these personality ...things... to a degree where it becomes about us, especially when it has occult origins. But how do you feel about something like the MBTI? So long as we don't idolize it/live strictly within its confines. Could we see Meyers-Briggs assessment as something just to get a little understanding of ourselves without blowing it out of proportion? I've been wondering this because as a former New Ager (particularly focused on personality astrology) I'm drawn to people and how we're uniquely different from one another.
Thanks Melissa! I don't know much about the enneagram other than what I've learned from you and Marcia!! Thanks for the info! How would I address this in my church though, if I found out someone in the church is practicing enneagram?
Please hear me out. I am currently getting a degree in Christian Spiritual Formation, where we are taught to use exegesis to discover what the Bible really means. Because the truth is… the Bible only ever meant what it meant to the authors, so we need to find out what the Bible actually means instead of using hermeneutics to make the Bible mean what we THINK it means. That being said I am not being taught anything at my school that is not exegetically Biblical, but I am being taught about the enneagram.
The truth is, I have studied the enneagram and know a lot about it. Like almost anything that is created, it can be used in an improper way. If you are using the enneagram like astrological signs, you are using it WRONG. A lot of people use the enneagram as an excuse for their mistakes or how they act, when in reality it is a tool to show you how you can work on yourself.
Is the enneagram biblical (as in, is it in the Bible)??? No it’s not, but neither is any form of psychology and many types of medicine. You don’t have to be Christian to use the enneagram, just like you don’t have to be Christian to go get counseling. It should also be noted that you can be a Christian and get counseling, some Christians are afraid of this because they are told that they have mental disorders because they don’t have enough faith.
If you are using the enneagram to give yourself divinity, YOU ARE USING IT WRONG. If you are using the enneagram to define who you are. YOU ARE USING IT WRONG. No one is one number on the enneagram. You can only resonate with a certain number most. The enneagram is not mean to put people in boxes, even though people do that all the time.
If you think the enneagram is evil because of its origins, then you have to be consistent with yourself and say that yoga is evil as well. Yoga was created to worship gods, and now we use it to improve our health.
I’m perfectly okay with someone being against the enneagram because of its origins, I just want their opinion to be consistent with other things with questionable origins.
I have been taught that the enneagram is a very accurate personality test that can help you find out what your tendencies are, so that you can work on yourself, and set yourself up well to be healthy.
As a major in Christian Spiritual Formation, they teach us the enneagram so that we can help ourselves and others become mature as we disciple them.
A very small example would be, as someone who resonates with number 2, if I find that I am driven to help someone out, I can take a step back and ask myself if I sincerely want to help, or if it is because I want them to like me. If the motive for helping is bad I can correct my motive.
One last thing, the enneagram is not meant to define God, that’s what the Bible is for. I don’t even know how the enneagram could define God
I’ve mostly heard Christians calling it a personality tool, like Meyers Briggs. 🤷♀️
I had never heard of this until I heard your "Women's Bible study" video (30 mins ago). Thank you for teaching.
Wasn't it amazing? (:
Not sure you can only look at the origins of things. We have such a horrific history in the church... The Bible has some horrific history in it. That would be enough to turn most people off Jesus. What we can be sure of is that all things good are from God, because God is all good. So the good in things are actually... Good. The good in yoga, which is a lot of the stretches that your kids and you will be doing before working out and after working out...is... Good. It's good for the body and God made us not disembodied people, but people that are to look after our bodies. Meditation is good and biblical.. The breathing exercises and meditation that comes from Eastern mystisysm is actually good for you. It changes your nervous system and helps the parasympathetic nervous system kick in, helping to reduce anxiety and stop illnesses. What Christians cannot seem to do, is to be able to be in the world and take the good, and leave the bad or do things, like yoga, whilst praying to God or meditating on scripture in their minds if that's what they want to to do, but still do the excersises that are actually good for them. What is it with Christians that they have to make such a fuss. So many more people would be tempted to seek out Jesus if they saw Christians in real places doing real things but still not being moved and being strong in their faith. It seems more like living in fear the way things are portrayed in these videos. Are there no Christians out there that can go into mosques and temples and reach people but still manage to hold on to their faith in Jesus. Are we simply that weak and watery?
God forbids lots of things, including the ones you mentioned. Isn't that good enough reason to not do it?
Meditating on Scripture and Eastern Meditation are not the same thing. The latter is designed to empty the mind, the former is designed to fill it with God's word.
I don't think discernment means discarding every aspect of a thing because it has touched something wicked (demonic or otherwise), but we do have to test all things according to scripture. Is it true that people have motivations and fears that drive them more than other motivations and fears? Yes. Is it true that we can reach our "divine selves" or discover "ourselves" through the ennegram. No, since you need some self knowledge to even answer "What number do u most align with?" Also, there's the old self (the sinner) and the new creation (transformed by Christ). Therefore, the whole divine identity can be dropped. And pretty sure the problem of "she's a 4, I can't get along with her" is a general people problem that appears no matter what personality tool they use (ennegram, Myers briggs, Disc) or even don't use (for example, people can measure others by clothes worn, brand of car, way of speech or other superficial measure).
I totally agree. To be honest when I started reading the enneagramm I felt so overwhelmed and thought "Wow FINALLY someone understands me". I LOVED it and recommended it to so many people, even read it to my husband and family. Then I got informed about where it comes from etc. and wow.. This is so toxic. It's a lie that the enneagramm knows me best - it's JESUS! He's always loved me (and you!), we're made in his image with our own personality. Other personality tests etc can be helpful I think but the enneagramm is definitely deceiving. The problem is: it seems to be so close to truth but it's still not the truth. So thank you for the video, brothers and sisters let us remember Jesus loves and knows us best and HE is the one who can change and transform us day by day! God bless you all.
I think there are a few things here that need clarifying. Firstly 'inner divinity' is what Christians might call the indwelling Holy Spirit. God living in us as taught in the New Testament, the indwelling Spirit. Some of the earliest theologians talked about Jesus and said 'he became what we are, that we might become what he is'. I.e. human in union with the divine via the indwelling spirit. It's such a shame that clumsy language is being labelled 'new age' or 'occult' when it's a core christian idea.
Secondly, 'true self'. While this phrase is now being used by all kinds of people, it originates in Trappist monk Thomas Merton. The true self is our self in Christ, our objective identity in God. The false self Is an identity built on anything else, status, success, appearance etc. Again a very christian idea, that we put on Christ and receive a new identity hidden in Christ in God. Again It's such a shame that clumsy language is being labelled 'new age' or 'occult' when it's a core christian idea.
I think a little more nuance and a little less fear mongering would really improve your videos!
Not trying to start anything here but share another perspective- the enneagram as we know it today is a tool. Unfortunately, many tools have been misused or have unsound origins, but that doesn’t discount their helpfulness. A fantastic take on the enneagram is a book written in the 90’s called “the wisdom of the enneagram,” in which the authors describe the intent as not being to put you in a box, but to show you the box you are already in, and the way out. It’s helpful tools and terms to observe and catch the behavior that (as a Christian) keeps you from living like the new creation you are in Christ.
We flippantly use terms like “type A” and “type B,” as a understood and objective way to describe someone or ourselves as having traits and habits like being more or less organized, focused, or creative. I’d ask you to consider, what’s the harm in delving into more extensive “types,” to understand ourselves and others in our life?
As a Christian you don’t have to shy away from both your understanding of universal fallen human nature (the condition), and your new identity as broken-yet redeemed and righteous as a follower of Christ (the solution.) You can embrace those unchangeable truths fully while still using work done by other Christians to better understand your brokenness and what brings it out, and the ways that by God’s grace you can grow some of those broken tendencies to be more like the Jesus we follow!
When a "Christian" doesn't lift the name of Jesus in the context that it deserves, I always wonder. Mr. Rohr was not on my radar but after several videos I noticed he NEVER states that Jesus Is Lord. and that really, really bothers me. Be blessed and renew your prayer life. We are in dark times. G.
Good gracious the Bible and a persons walk with the one true God is anything but boring. The reason why these people turning to New Age practices is happening is because they don’t want to come to the one true God. First of all they would have to stop sinning. Because the Holy Spirit who is God would be living with in them leading them on a daily walk to stop what ever sin is at hand in their life at the moment.
Then of course when you are a true Christian you are doing the work of the Lord and you get attacked a lot. You get a lot of demonic hits at you and that’s truly what everybody is trying to avoid. Oh that gray area in which to live is the goal of almost every Christian out there.
Funny how something intended to decode the stars and use math to map out the universe turned into an egocentric discovery tool.
Vanity of vanity. I'm glad your calling this stuff out. Thats why I subscribed to this channel.
A car can be used to drive us to church, or it can be used to run over a pedestrian. The enneagram is nothing more than a vehicle. The bible doesn't talk about the use of cars does it? Some of your examples such as people using it to define their personality, and say "Oh we are / are not compatible" is a misuse of the vehicle. I assure you it's not boredom. That argument is like saying that people who use hammers to drive in nails must be board of driving in nails in with their bare hands. Is it boredom that lead man to use a car over a horse and buggy? Is it boredom that lead man to plowing a field with a tractor rather than using a mule? The enneagram if used correctly, is a vehicle that will bring one closer to god. If used incorrectly can be destructive. It's a tool. A tool to be understood and used responsibly. And if used responsibly, can be a life changing tool. You arguments are on the side of those who are irresponsible. And this should be called out. But do not throw the baby out with the bathwater, for there are those who do use it responsibly, and as a result, they become closer to God.
Melissa, speaking and affirming/declaring the word of God in your life and situations is not 'Law of Attraction'. The Lord told Moses to tell the Israelites to take note that whatever they say is what he will hear and do for them. What does that mean? Let the weak say I am strong, and let the poor say I am rich. Is this law of attraction?
I think you shd read the Bible more intently
This is really interesting. I get what you're saying, but I think things like the enneagram and MBTI can be used in a positive way as tools. For example, they are great for giving other people insight into how you think/operate and vice versa. I think, just as with most things, that your intent and how you use things are more important than how or why something was created in the first place.
And as Christians, we are required to love one another despite our personality differences....whatever test or quiz you use. We are even called to love our enemies and be at peace wherever possible with them. Do we naturally get along better with certain personalities or common hobbies or shared pet peeves? Yes. But that should not be our primary focus. And Christ tells us how to get along or choose friends or spouses
It is also not accepted by science so its basically bunk
My first impression of the Enneagram curiously was of Metatron, which raised a red flag.
I just googled Metatron and he wants to be conjured up through geometric symbolism. So that's definitely demonic. I will now be more conscious about geometric symbols.
The creepiest part about the enneagram is how scarily accurate it is.
I didn’t know it was occultic at the time of taking the official test on the enneagram site but when I did read the results it literally described every single aspect of my personality to a T. Like 100%. And I’m a very deep and overly complex person so the fact it laid all things bare I was shocked.
Still don’t know what to think of it but have since repented.