Hey Camon, since there's still not that much on HDR out here on UA-cam I thought I'd watch this even though I don't use Premiere because with these things I feel that workflows outside your own have a good chance of giving new insight. I know that Adobe software is showing its age a bit (Photoshop was initially released in 1990) but I didn't expect this. It reminded me a bit of Microsoft. Officially, Word and Excel should play nice but when trying to insert a table from Excel into a Word document it didn't really do it. It just inserted an image which I had to resize to fit. Now every time the Word document updated the table size changed back messing up the layout of everything in Word. But that was at work where I had decided that any quality-of-life feature that takes up more than have an hour of my time to figure out is not worth it. I simply made a screenshot of the table manually and inserted it into Word. 😅 Now, if I cannot go nerd-berserk in this comment section, I don't know where. 😜 I film under water where white balance is mild insanity. It's generally said that more colors get absorbed the deeper you go but I have to stress that this is true in all directions. If there's water, it absorbs different wavelengths at different rates. Meaning, even if you push in horizontally towards a subject the colors shift appreciably in as little as 1 meter. I mainly use FCP because even though it's not deemed the best at either color grading or audio mastering, the UI allows me to realize new ideas quickly and intuitively. I find myself roundtripping only for very specific reasons or features. Like adding a binaural effect to an audio clip. For filming under water I knew I needed RAW video because it'd be impossible to set the white balance while shooting. Color should not only be accurate (if at all possible depending on depth) but also needs to match between clips with long camera moves. And when exactly the cut is going to be is something that I cannot predict ahead of time with sufficient accuracy. I'm a freediver and I hold my breath when filming. The camera is in an underwater housing making the screen even harder to see and discern color in that shifting ambient light cannot yield good results. Now, I've expected a roundtripping workflow with Resolve. Initial tests seemed to suggest that FCP with the installed Canon RAW-Plugin didn't allow for proper changing of white balance. In Resolve I set the white balance to something acceptable at depth (like 10.000K and a very high tint setting) and exported a ProRes to use in FCP. In FCP I color graded with keyframes to adjust for the shifting white balance but to my dismay the ProRes files just fell apart when the white balance was close to daylight at the surface of the sea. Think primary yellow and magenta with some weird and colorful noise. However, something got updated before I actually went filming. I don't know if it was FCP or the Canon RAW Plugin. Mind you, it still wasn't possible to set white balance (or anything else for that matter) for individual RAW clips but the color grading tools seemed to actually take advantage of RAW and setting WB for a RAW clip which technically doesn't have any wasn't necessary. I have not empirically tested this and maybe Resolve could get more out of the files but FCP does a far better job than I thought possible even at depths of 20m / 66ft where all but bluest hues (and the orange glow of my fluorescent trunks which I failed to predict) had been absorbed. FCP automatically switches back and forth between SDR (IRE%) scopes and HDR scopes (nits). As in, the moment you click on something that requires the other scope. What also surprised me is FCP's or actually macOS's "tone mapping." I was surprised by how solid the SDR versions of HDR videos generated by UA-cam were... BUT macOS makes an HDR clip played back on a shoddy FullHD office monitor look mega (without creating profiles or anything, just plugged into the computer via HDMI)... So much so, I initially thought I'd made a mistake somewhere and the clip hadn't been HDR but SDR. 😅 HDR clips are HDR in the Finder previews. Only in Apple's Photos App they aren't. Here the brightness levels above SDR are missing (replaced by a solid color) and upon opening/enlarging them the HDR information appears. FCP by default automatically color conforms clips to the timeline setting offering various manual controls for every clip including a setting for peak brightness. But I have to say, I haven't noticed the automatic default messing up so far. Historically speaking, macs have been used for desktop publishing and I remember seeing color management tools in macOS as far back as the 90s. And apparently the iTunes store used to be the only place where The Matrix (1999) had its "correct" color grade (not the green tinted one from the DVD) until the recent bluray release. I mean, HDR has been a surprisingly pleasant journey for me. Yes, under water footage is challenging and it took some time until I found a color grading workflow that works. It does require at least 4 effects/color grading tools (occasionally a 5th) in a specific order (not counting noise reduction which is a must with these Canon RAW Video clips) but I'm quite pleased with the results so far. I knew from the get-go this wouldn't be easy and I never expected instant results. FCP has some weird quirks that require a workaround. E.g. when applying a LUT to a clip (i.e. import LUT) FCP sometimes clips the highlights and even though the information is in the clip it cannot be recovered in color grading. The solution is not applying any LUT to the clip directly and doing the transform with the "Custom LUT"-effect when color grading where you can manually arrange the order in which the effects are applied to the clip. I chose HDR because it's the way of the future, UA-cam supports it (even though the UI doesn't show anything about HDR processing), and because when seeing how blue the blue of the sea could be in HDR I was sold... Immediately. And while there's still so much to learn about the standard (i.e. 2020 PQ) every new thing that I understand just makes me like it even more. It seems so elegant. It's like someone out there REALLY cared when coming up with this standard. However, while HDR screens find increasing adoption, there's still the question about UA-cam's downconversion. It's good but why not grade for SDR if all displays (including HDR ones) support it? Well, I've seen some of my SDR grades played back on SDR screens... Some of those screens are good but there's a surprisingly many potatoes out there. Some are so inaccurate none of the effort that I put into grading seemed to matter. The HDR standard on the other hand... How it accounts for variations of display specs is just *chef's kiss*! 😅 So yeah... It's been a journey, I had to write it down sooner or later, and here it might be found and help someone desperate who's looking for answers. Best. 🙌🏻
This is exactly what i was looking. You dig deep into hdr thing. And i was looking for this video for so long. Finally someone with proper knowledge making video on hdr topic. Amazing work.
Yep. Engaging because I was definitely looking for this video. Searched some things a few times and never got served this vid about HDR footage in Premiere.
Hi, I'm working on this problem and I can say that Premiere now supports Sony, Canon and Panasonic log when overriding the color space. You can find these options under: Modify > Interpret footage > Color > Override media color space It's looking better now for a log workflow in Premiere.
I'm so thankful for your video. I'm using a different setup than you, but everything that didn't work for you it happened flawlessly in my end. I started with curiosity and now I'm on full throthle doing my first HDR video. Amazing, thank you! 8btw, I'm using version 23.0 of premiere, and I didnt have any issues folloing your tutorial)
Just like all TVs are 4k now, eventually all TVs will be HDR. Until then the majority of content is edited with SDR in mind, then dealing with HDR in grading and mastering. Resolve is designed for color grading and mastering first, with other tools added on and expanded. That's why it's so easy to set up Resolve in HDR for editing. The other NLEs are designed for editing and add on tools for color etc based on user demand. Color management could be better with NLEs, but they are designed for offline/online style workflows where dailies are given basic color correction with synced audio and sent to editorial. Sometimes there is a show lut for an overall look that can be applied within the NLE. The Adobe HDR for Broadcasters page shows it's for taking HDR content and creating deliverables out of Premiere, not for editing. After Effects supports Log because VFX uses Log for film scanned plates. Luts are used at a shot level, so there is a effects plug-in for it. Adobe and others will add more HDR features as HDR overtakes SDR. Your workflow for editing in HDR is like when editors wanted to edit in higher resolutions and support was limited at first. Eventually the hardware and software began to make it possible.
I don’t even know that much about color grading but I also noticed that switching the scopes to HDR made it look like the blacks were crushed as well when I was just messing around with grading in HDR. I thought I was doing something wrong but I guess not.
lol. DUDE. Thank you for this video! If you have ANY idea how frustrated I've been with Adobe PP over the last 18 months -it's been SO hard to find this info (and update, it's 2.1.24, and Adobe has STILL NOT FIXED THE SCOPES)
Hey, awesome video. I am in the process of making some videos regarding HDR workflows as well and your findings are great help! One thing regarding color management - in 2023 version of premiere Adobe added SLOG support for colour management, but not other cameras, which is still a big problem.
And to add to that - I am using an oled HDR monitor as my primary display and when colour management settings and extended range monitoring in premiere enabled, it is closer to displaying true video, but still not perfect. Shadows are lifted and i think peak luminance isn't as high as i should be, but it's not controlled based on peak SDR brightness anymore. It is better if you can't afford an IO card and allows you to estimate things more easily, but IO cards still yelds better results. Not even close to professional solution, but on a "budget "I think you can still give it a shot.
Oh damn, the frustration.. I'm editing all my UA-cam videos for HDR delivery now, happy with the HDR and SDR conversion results. I would not dare in Premiere, just from the list you showed, it's impractical. You gave a pretty good task list to Adobe of things to fix tho, that should be helpful. By the way, neither Resolve nor Premiere supports HDR output via the standard GPU HDMI out on Windows? It's so easy on my Macbook Pro 16, with HDR output in Resolve preview on the integrated HDR display, and just the same on an external monitor / TV. It would be useful if Premiere had an option to select your own SDR preview LUT (same you'd attach in UA-cam uploads) instead of their hard clipped output. That's a really easy fix.
Hey, i use OLED HDR monitor as my primary display and after setting colour management like in the video i get pretty accurate mapping of HDR image in the preview window
I've found the HLG workflow (shoot in HLG, import, create HLG timeline, use HLG scopes) does indeed work. I think Premiere's PQ handling is not fully baked.
I sat an whole day trying to figure it out researching online and so on, I had to scrap my HDR10+ s22ultra video convert it to rec.709 and upload it. Not easy in premiere pro maybe I should test the Davinchi Resolve next time. Thanks for making the video.
I've always been confused by Adobe's implementation of ICC profiles, going all the was back to the first edition of Photoshop CS. I will say this however, the thing with weird banding or patterns when using a calibrated LUT or ICC can be caused during the calibration process, if the probe is pushed up against an LCD screen with too much pressure. Also, it's best to use a monitor where you can load your calibrated ICC onto the monitor, rather than rely on Windows, which I'm not sure can do anything more than 1D. I see you are using CalMAN, have you tried using CalMAN's Client3 instead of Windows for ICC management?
I'm using DisplayCAL to generate my ICC profile. I didn't have the colorimeter pressed against the screen too hard, just loosely hanging against it. Even if I did perform the calibration incorrectly, why does it work correctly in every other program except for those made by Adobe? Yes, applying the calibration to the monitor itself would be ideal, but my displays don't support this.
hwllo, may i ask, can premiere pro use hardware encoding to make hdr metadata? because i cannot checked metadata when i use hardware encoding but software encoding can. and the result of export when i use hardware metadata is SDR 10bit, unlike software metadata HDR 10bit.
Actually I got way better HDR results in Premiere than Davinci Color Managed / ACES. But I develop my 'way around' and I shoot everything in GH5 HLG so it's easy. But Premiere generally is SLOW and crushes constantly, so I don't use it anymore. But all my best HDR visuals I made in Premiere. the thing is that your timeline color space, your scopes, your managed footage doesn't work together...for example it doesn't matter how you set your EVERYTHING, lumetri scopes always show things in 709.
18:00 this is what I faced many times and frustratedly gone to resolve and sometimes fcp x which have already moved on to consistent preview and render of hdr clips in the workflow..
As a fellow HDR nerd, you really should embrace Apple. They’re way, way ahead with HDR integration and Final Cut is great for HDR editing, it even has auto tone mapping now.
Hey man, I have a question that I hope you can answer as you seem to know the most about a true HDR workflow. Adobe Camera Raw now supports an HDR workflow, so naturally, I'm trying to make timelapses from still photos to display in an HDR video. Premiere doesn't support AVIF or JPEGxl, so my only options when exporting are basically TIFF, but even though they are exported in Rec2020, they dont display correctly in Premiere, and still require alot of added contrast. Is this something that's just missing from Premiere, or should I be exporting differently from ACR?
I had to do it that way to get correct colors in one of my projects by performing a Rec.709 -> Rec.601 conversion, which I was only able to do by searching Google and miraculously finding a zip archive containing a LUT cube file that worked perfectly in Premiere. Why it would not be included in Premiere by default is beyond my understanding. What a mess.
Where are you seeing this option? In the Lumetri panel I only see the option to add an input LUT, not an input transform. I did also see an article claiming that log input transforms have been added to the interpret footage panel in the beta version of Premiere, but it's been over a year and those features haven't been added to the stable release.
I honestly can’t find a good enough reason to recommend Premiere to anyone as long as Davinci exists. Both paid or free are immensely more powerful in grading and editing. Adobe feels like a paid scam nowadays
Interesting video but you have many mistakes in your video. no problem iam here to help ya all. 3:35 max bit depth and quality does not effect your timeline preview, only the video files when you prerender stuff in the timeline. 4:18 u want to select 100 nits not more 6:13 premieres hdr waveform readout in the lower part below 0 nits is truly buggy. just use your eyes to grade the dark stuff 7:20 u dont need a declink whatever thats a big fat lie. enable color management in premiere uses dircetx hdr implementation to give you an correct hdr signal in windows and mac. 8:50 if you really wanna grade HDR on a SDR display you are just dumb. sorry but there is no other way to say it. premiere does not allow you to monitore an sdr preview of your hdr timelines. for that u need the "sdr conform" effect for tone mapping ;) 13:20 as i said, hdr to sdr tone mapping is done by "sdr conform" effect. simply rendering your hdr timeline in sdr does not mean automatic tone mapping, it makes sens that everything clips above in sdr. premiere has NO automatic tone mapping feature or something... working between after effects and premiere in hdr its bad, because after effects isnt on that "great" hdr level as premiere is (e.x. monitoring hdr). never will hdr workflows as easy to use as sdr ones. simply by the fact that u have so much knowledge about hdr that it is impossible for beginners to get something started. 22:10 resolves hdr worklfow is much more complicated than premieres due to many more settings, premiere is just enable color management and hdr on your OS, done! have a nice day
Let me try and address each of your points: 1. I believe you're right. I missed this in my initial research. 2. On what basis have you made that decision? 100 nits is a perfectly valid graphics white level if that's your preference, but there's nothing wrong with using one of the other options. I use 203 nits because it's my personal preference and seems to be used more frequently than 100 nits as a graphics white level. 3. Sure, you can grade using your eyes, but that's no excuse for the waveforms to be broken. The waveform is a tool to help you understand what you're looking at. You don't NEED it, but it's helpful to have. And if the waveform doesn't work properly, why have it? 4. I've had some very inconsistent results when trying to get HDR previewing working without a DeckLink. I tried it once a long time ago and it worked, then while I was researching this video I couldn't get it to work no matter how hard I tried. When I found an article on Adobe's website stating that "Premiere does not send a signal with HDR metadata attached through the normal video-out process from your computer. So first, you must have a device that can "see" the Premiere Pro HDR signal, and send that via HDMI with proper metadata to a proper HDR capable monitor," I assumed it was no longer possible. I tried it again just now and was able to get it working. Not sure what changed. Regardless, a DeckLink is still a good idea for proper monitoring :) 5. Why is it "dumb" to want to be able to preview an HDR video on an SDR display? Sure, it's less accurate than viewing it in its native HDR, but in my experience as long as the software has some good tone mapping then it's definitely possible to get good results as long as you keep an eye on your scopes. And if there were no good reason to want to preview in SDR, then why does Premiere attempt to perform the tone mapping for you? Premiere is clearly performing some sort of tone mapping from HDR to SDR, it's just doing it wrong. Why have the feature if it's broken? I know it's possible to give a good SDR preview of HDR content, because Resolve does it. 6. I didn't know the SDR Conform effect existed. Now that I do, I'm once again forced to ask the question: When rendering an HDR timeline in SDR, why does Premiere perform tone mapping at all if it's not going to do it correctly? I could understand if Adobe decided that Premiere won't perform tone mapping automatically and that the user should have to manually request it via the SDR Conform effect. That would be inconvenient, but understandable from a design perspective. Yet, they decided that Premiere WILL automatically perform tone mapping, it will just use an inferior method to do so unless the user opts to apply the SDR conform effect. As I said in the video, I can sort of understand the decision to clip specular highlights when in the preview window. But what possible reason could someone have to want to render out an HDR project as SDR, but with the highlights hard-clipped instead of rolled off? Is there any circumstance in which the user would NOT want the SDR Conform effect applied? And if there isn't any reason to not have it applied, then why not apply it automatically? If Adobe really felt that it was necessary to let people see the specular highlights hard-clipped, then why isn't there an option somewhere to choose between rolled-off highlights and clipped highlights? 7. Sure, Resolve has more settings, which can be intimidating to some people. That's one of the reasons why I want Premiere's HDR workflow to be good. But as things stand now, I can't recommend Premiere's workflow even if it does involve fiddling with fewer settings
Hey Camon,
since there's still not that much on HDR out here on UA-cam I thought I'd watch this even though I don't use Premiere because with these things I feel that workflows outside your own have a good chance of giving new insight. I know that Adobe software is showing its age a bit (Photoshop was initially released in 1990) but I didn't expect this. It reminded me a bit of Microsoft. Officially, Word and Excel should play nice but when trying to insert a table from Excel into a Word document it didn't really do it. It just inserted an image which I had to resize to fit. Now every time the Word document updated the table size changed back messing up the layout of everything in Word. But that was at work where I had decided that any quality-of-life feature that takes up more than have an hour of my time to figure out is not worth it. I simply made a screenshot of the table manually and inserted it into Word. 😅
Now, if I cannot go nerd-berserk in this comment section, I don't know where. 😜 I film under water where white balance is mild insanity. It's generally said that more colors get absorbed the deeper you go but I have to stress that this is true in all directions. If there's water, it absorbs different wavelengths at different rates. Meaning, even if you push in horizontally towards a subject the colors shift appreciably in as little as 1 meter.
I mainly use FCP because even though it's not deemed the best at either color grading or audio mastering, the UI allows me to realize new ideas quickly and intuitively. I find myself roundtripping only for very specific reasons or features. Like adding a binaural effect to an audio clip. For filming under water I knew I needed RAW video because it'd be impossible to set the white balance while shooting. Color should not only be accurate (if at all possible depending on depth) but also needs to match between clips with long camera moves. And when exactly the cut is going to be is something that I cannot predict ahead of time with sufficient accuracy. I'm a freediver and I hold my breath when filming. The camera is in an underwater housing making the screen even harder to see and discern color in that shifting ambient light cannot yield good results.
Now, I've expected a roundtripping workflow with Resolve. Initial tests seemed to suggest that FCP with the installed Canon RAW-Plugin didn't allow for proper changing of white balance. In Resolve I set the white balance to something acceptable at depth (like 10.000K and a very high tint setting) and exported a ProRes to use in FCP. In FCP I color graded with keyframes to adjust for the shifting white balance but to my dismay the ProRes files just fell apart when the white balance was close to daylight at the surface of the sea. Think primary yellow and magenta with some weird and colorful noise. However, something got updated before I actually went filming. I don't know if it was FCP or the Canon RAW Plugin. Mind you, it still wasn't possible to set white balance (or anything else for that matter) for individual RAW clips but the color grading tools seemed to actually take advantage of RAW and setting WB for a RAW clip which technically doesn't have any wasn't necessary. I have not empirically tested this and maybe Resolve could get more out of the files but FCP does a far better job than I thought possible even at depths of 20m / 66ft where all but bluest hues (and the orange glow of my fluorescent trunks which I failed to predict) had been absorbed.
FCP automatically switches back and forth between SDR (IRE%) scopes and HDR scopes (nits). As in, the moment you click on something that requires the other scope. What also surprised me is FCP's or actually macOS's "tone mapping." I was surprised by how solid the SDR versions of HDR videos generated by UA-cam were... BUT macOS makes an HDR clip played back on a shoddy FullHD office monitor look mega (without creating profiles or anything, just plugged into the computer via HDMI)... So much so, I initially thought I'd made a mistake somewhere and the clip hadn't been HDR but SDR. 😅 HDR clips are HDR in the Finder previews. Only in Apple's Photos App they aren't. Here the brightness levels above SDR are missing (replaced by a solid color) and upon opening/enlarging them the HDR information appears.
FCP by default automatically color conforms clips to the timeline setting offering various manual controls for every clip including a setting for peak brightness. But I have to say, I haven't noticed the automatic default messing up so far.
Historically speaking, macs have been used for desktop publishing and I remember seeing color management tools in macOS as far back as the 90s. And apparently the iTunes store used to be the only place where The Matrix (1999) had its "correct" color grade (not the green tinted one from the DVD) until the recent bluray release. I mean, HDR has been a surprisingly pleasant journey for me. Yes, under water footage is challenging and it took some time until I found a color grading workflow that works. It does require at least 4 effects/color grading tools (occasionally a 5th) in a specific order (not counting noise reduction which is a must with these Canon RAW Video clips) but I'm quite pleased with the results so far. I knew from the get-go this wouldn't be easy and I never expected instant results.
FCP has some weird quirks that require a workaround. E.g. when applying a LUT to a clip (i.e. import LUT) FCP sometimes clips the highlights and even though the information is in the clip it cannot be recovered in color grading. The solution is not applying any LUT to the clip directly and doing the transform with the "Custom LUT"-effect when color grading where you can manually arrange the order in which the effects are applied to the clip.
I chose HDR because it's the way of the future, UA-cam supports it (even though the UI doesn't show anything about HDR processing), and because when seeing how blue the blue of the sea could be in HDR I was sold... Immediately. And while there's still so much to learn about the standard (i.e. 2020 PQ) every new thing that I understand just makes me like it even more. It seems so elegant. It's like someone out there REALLY cared when coming up with this standard. However, while HDR screens find increasing adoption, there's still the question about UA-cam's downconversion. It's good but why not grade for SDR if all displays (including HDR ones) support it? Well, I've seen some of my SDR grades played back on SDR screens... Some of those screens are good but there's a surprisingly many potatoes out there. Some are so inaccurate none of the effort that I put into grading seemed to matter. The HDR standard on the other hand... How it accounts for variations of display specs is just *chef's kiss*! 😅
So yeah... It's been a journey, I had to write it down sooner or later, and here it might be found and help someone desperate who's looking for answers.
Best. 🙌🏻
This is exactly what i was looking. You dig deep into hdr thing. And i was looking for this video for so long. Finally someone with proper knowledge making video on hdr topic. Amazing work.
Yep. Engaging because I was definitely looking for this video. Searched some things a few times and never got served this vid about HDR footage in Premiere.
Hi, I'm working on this problem and I can say that Premiere now supports Sony, Canon and Panasonic log when overriding the color space.
You can find these options under: Modify > Interpret footage > Color > Override media color space
It's looking better now for a log workflow in Premiere.
I'm so thankful for your video. I'm using a different setup than you, but everything that didn't work for you it happened flawlessly in my end. I started with curiosity and now I'm on full throthle doing my first HDR video. Amazing, thank you! 8btw, I'm using version 23.0 of premiere, and I didnt have any issues folloing your tutorial)
Just like all TVs are 4k now, eventually all TVs will be HDR. Until then the majority of content is edited with SDR in mind, then dealing with HDR in grading and mastering.
Resolve is designed for color grading and mastering first, with other tools added on and expanded. That's why it's so easy to set up Resolve in HDR for editing.
The other NLEs are designed for editing and add on tools for color etc based on user demand. Color management could be better with NLEs, but they are designed for offline/online style workflows where dailies are given basic color correction with synced audio and sent to editorial. Sometimes there is a show lut for an overall look that can be applied within the NLE.
The Adobe HDR for Broadcasters page shows it's for taking HDR content and creating deliverables out of Premiere, not for editing.
After Effects supports Log because VFX uses Log for film scanned plates. Luts are used at a shot level, so there is a effects plug-in for it.
Adobe and others will add more HDR features as HDR overtakes SDR. Your workflow for editing in HDR is like when editors wanted to edit in higher resolutions and support was limited at first. Eventually the hardware and software began to make it possible.
I don’t even know that much about color grading but I also noticed that switching the scopes to HDR made it look like the blacks were crushed as well when I was just messing around with grading in HDR. I thought I was doing something wrong but I guess not.
Oh my god.... I spent so long smashing my head against a wall trying to get this to work, I am officially giving up and going back to rec 709
Hey man, has any of these issues been fixed now? Would like an update.
Everything made by Adobe is broken.
FACTS! 🤝
lol. DUDE. Thank you for this video! If you have ANY idea how frustrated I've been with Adobe PP over the last 18 months -it's been SO hard to find this info (and update, it's 2.1.24, and Adobe has STILL NOT FIXED THE SCOPES)
THANK. YOU. 🤯🤯🤯 The Pr to Ae workflow melts my dang brain. Why would those two have any differences in color management?!!!??!! Very validating.
There is so much in Adobe Premiere that’s broken. It aggravates me to no end.
Hey, awesome video. I am in the process of making some videos regarding HDR workflows as well and your findings are great help! One thing regarding color management - in 2023 version of premiere Adobe added SLOG support for colour management, but not other cameras, which is still a big problem.
And to add to that - I am using an oled HDR monitor as my primary display and when colour management settings and extended range monitoring in premiere enabled, it is closer to displaying true video, but still not perfect. Shadows are lifted and i think peak luminance isn't as high as i should be, but it's not controlled based on peak SDR brightness anymore. It is better if you can't afford an IO card and allows you to estimate things more easily, but IO cards still yelds better results. Not even close to professional solution, but on a "budget "I think you can still give it a shot.
Oh damn, the frustration..
I'm editing all my UA-cam videos for HDR delivery now, happy with the HDR and SDR conversion results.
I would not dare in Premiere, just from the list you showed, it's impractical.
You gave a pretty good task list to Adobe of things to fix tho, that should be helpful.
By the way, neither Resolve nor Premiere supports HDR output via the standard GPU HDMI out on Windows?
It's so easy on my Macbook Pro 16, with HDR output in Resolve preview on the integrated HDR display, and just the same on an external monitor / TV.
It would be useful if Premiere had an option to select your own SDR preview LUT (same you'd attach in UA-cam uploads) instead of their hard clipped output. That's a really easy fix.
Hey, i use OLED HDR monitor as my primary display and after setting colour management like in the video i get pretty accurate mapping of HDR image in the preview window
I've found the HLG workflow (shoot in HLG, import, create HLG timeline, use HLG scopes) does indeed work. I think Premiere's PQ handling is not fully baked.
I sat an whole day trying to figure it out researching online and so on, I had to scrap my HDR10+ s22ultra video convert it to rec.709 and upload it. Not easy in premiere pro maybe I should test the Davinchi Resolve next time. Thanks for making the video.
I've always been confused by Adobe's implementation of ICC profiles, going all the was back to the first edition of Photoshop CS.
I will say this however, the thing with weird banding or patterns when using a calibrated LUT or ICC can be caused during the calibration process, if the probe is pushed up against an LCD screen with too much pressure.
Also, it's best to use a monitor where you can load your calibrated ICC onto the monitor, rather than rely on Windows, which I'm not sure can do anything more than 1D. I see you are using CalMAN, have you tried using CalMAN's Client3 instead of Windows for ICC management?
I'm using DisplayCAL to generate my ICC profile. I didn't have the colorimeter pressed against the screen too hard, just loosely hanging against it. Even if I did perform the calibration incorrectly, why does it work correctly in every other program except for those made by Adobe?
Yes, applying the calibration to the monitor itself would be ideal, but my displays don't support this.
Thank you! I thought it was just me.
Good vid but do you always talk to the wall, and not the camera (audience) ?
hwllo, may i ask, can premiere pro use hardware encoding to make hdr metadata? because i cannot checked metadata when i use hardware encoding but software encoding can.
and the result of export when i use hardware metadata is SDR 10bit, unlike software metadata HDR 10bit.
Actually I got way better HDR results in Premiere than Davinci Color Managed / ACES. But I develop my 'way around' and I shoot everything in GH5 HLG so it's easy. But Premiere generally is SLOW and crushes constantly, so I don't use it anymore. But all my best HDR visuals I made in Premiere. the thing is that your timeline color space, your scopes, your managed footage doesn't work together...for example it doesn't matter how you set your EVERYTHING, lumetri scopes always show things in 709.
You can change how scopes behave in resolve, for example it can work in “nits” mode with a maximum luminance of 10000nits.
@@nuoxu2922did you export media with hardware encoding ?
18:00 this is what I faced many times and frustratedly gone to resolve and sometimes fcp x which have already moved on to consistent preview and render of hdr clips in the workflow..
So my theory is that if premiere pro coded just for based on Apple Mac, will it less broken?
Adobe needs to hire you.
i'm focusing to the cat hehehe
Thanks a lot. I hought I'm crazy, but looks like the right decision is still to not to work with HDR in PR((
As a fellow HDR nerd, you really should embrace Apple. They’re way, way ahead with HDR integration and Final Cut is great for HDR editing, it even has auto tone mapping now.
Ever heard about DaVinci Resolve?
Hey man, I have a question that I hope you can answer as you seem to know the most about a true HDR workflow. Adobe Camera Raw now supports an HDR workflow, so naturally, I'm trying to make timelapses from still photos to display in an HDR video. Premiere doesn't support AVIF or JPEGxl, so my only options when exporting are basically TIFF, but even though they are exported in Rec2020, they dont display correctly in Premiere, and still require alot of added contrast. Is this something that's just missing from Premiere, or should I be exporting differently from ACR?
bravo sir!!!
I think that you do your color space transform in Premiere in the lumetri panel. It has slog 3 I think.
I had to do it that way to get correct colors in one of my projects by performing a Rec.709 -> Rec.601 conversion, which I was only able to do by searching Google and miraculously finding a zip archive containing a LUT cube file that worked perfectly in Premiere. Why it would not be included in Premiere by default is beyond my understanding. What a mess.
Where are you seeing this option?
In the Lumetri panel I only see the option to add an input LUT, not an input transform. I did also see an article claiming that log input transforms have been added to the interpret footage panel in the beta version of Premiere, but it's been over a year and those features haven't been added to the stable release.
GREAT RANT ,,, COMMON ADOBE , MANY ARE LEAVING
did you try turning off clamp signal in the scope ?
At 5:44, the "Clamp Signal" option looks checked and greyed out.
bueno bro no te calente, sos crack bo! tkm desde argentina
I honestly can’t find a good enough reason to recommend Premiere to anyone as long as Davinci exists.
Both paid or free are immensely more powerful in grading and editing.
Adobe feels like a paid scam nowadays
If you need a HDR workflow switch to a serious grading software, or even better hire a professional colorist. 🤷🏿♀️
Interesting video but you have many mistakes in your video. no problem iam here to help ya all.
3:35 max bit depth and quality does not effect your timeline preview, only the video files when you prerender stuff in the timeline.
4:18 u want to select 100 nits not more
6:13 premieres hdr waveform readout in the lower part below 0 nits is truly buggy. just use your eyes to grade the dark stuff
7:20 u dont need a declink whatever thats a big fat lie. enable color management in premiere uses dircetx hdr implementation to give you an correct hdr signal in windows and mac.
8:50 if you really wanna grade HDR on a SDR display you are just dumb. sorry but there is no other way to say it. premiere does not allow you to monitore an sdr preview of your hdr timelines. for that u need the "sdr conform" effect for tone mapping ;)
13:20 as i said, hdr to sdr tone mapping is done by "sdr conform" effect. simply rendering your hdr timeline in sdr does not mean automatic tone mapping, it makes sens that everything clips above in sdr. premiere has NO automatic tone mapping feature or something...
working between after effects and premiere in hdr its bad, because after effects isnt on that "great" hdr level as premiere is (e.x. monitoring hdr).
never will hdr workflows as easy to use as sdr ones. simply by the fact that u have so much knowledge about hdr that it is impossible for beginners to get something started.
22:10 resolves hdr worklfow is much more complicated than premieres due to many more settings, premiere is just enable color management and hdr on your OS, done!
have a nice day
Let me try and address each of your points:
1. I believe you're right. I missed this in my initial research.
2. On what basis have you made that decision? 100 nits is a perfectly valid graphics white level if that's your preference, but there's nothing wrong with using one of the other options. I use 203 nits because it's my personal preference and seems to be used more frequently than 100 nits as a graphics white level.
3. Sure, you can grade using your eyes, but that's no excuse for the waveforms to be broken. The waveform is a tool to help you understand what you're looking at. You don't NEED it, but it's helpful to have. And if the waveform doesn't work properly, why have it?
4. I've had some very inconsistent results when trying to get HDR previewing working without a DeckLink. I tried it once a long time ago and it worked, then while I was researching this video I couldn't get it to work no matter how hard I tried. When I found an article on Adobe's website stating that "Premiere does not send a signal with HDR metadata attached through the normal video-out process from your computer. So first, you must have a device that can "see" the Premiere Pro HDR signal, and send that via HDMI with proper metadata to a proper HDR capable monitor," I assumed it was no longer possible. I tried it again just now and was able to get it working. Not sure what changed. Regardless, a DeckLink is still a good idea for proper monitoring :)
5. Why is it "dumb" to want to be able to preview an HDR video on an SDR display? Sure, it's less accurate than viewing it in its native HDR, but in my experience as long as the software has some good tone mapping then it's definitely possible to get good results as long as you keep an eye on your scopes. And if there were no good reason to want to preview in SDR, then why does Premiere attempt to perform the tone mapping for you? Premiere is clearly performing some sort of tone mapping from HDR to SDR, it's just doing it wrong. Why have the feature if it's broken? I know it's possible to give a good SDR preview of HDR content, because Resolve does it.
6. I didn't know the SDR Conform effect existed. Now that I do, I'm once again forced to ask the question: When rendering an HDR timeline in SDR, why does Premiere perform tone mapping at all if it's not going to do it correctly? I could understand if Adobe decided that Premiere won't perform tone mapping automatically and that the user should have to manually request it via the SDR Conform effect. That would be inconvenient, but understandable from a design perspective. Yet, they decided that Premiere WILL automatically perform tone mapping, it will just use an inferior method to do so unless the user opts to apply the SDR conform effect. As I said in the video, I can sort of understand the decision to clip specular highlights when in the preview window. But what possible reason could someone have to want to render out an HDR project as SDR, but with the highlights hard-clipped instead of rolled off? Is there any circumstance in which the user would NOT want the SDR Conform effect applied? And if there isn't any reason to not have it applied, then why not apply it automatically? If Adobe really felt that it was necessary to let people see the specular highlights hard-clipped, then why isn't there an option somewhere to choose between rolled-off highlights and clipped highlights?
7. Sure, Resolve has more settings, which can be intimidating to some people. That's one of the reasons why I want Premiere's HDR workflow to be good. But as things stand now, I can't recommend Premiere's workflow even if it does involve fiddling with fewer settings
Is your cat deaf, or just extremely used to your voice? I noticed that his ears don't move around when you talk. 😃