Forty some years ago, I was discussing gear with my WWII uncle. I had mentioned my mess kit had been stamped “USA 1943”… it turns out we had the same type of mess kits, shelter halves, three tent poles, and tent stakes in common.
The same thing went for my .45, which was made in 1944. I'm sure that the Army kept records of when it was issued and it would have been interesting to trace its history.
@@Snargfargleif you still have the serial number you can request the government look it up for you. It might not show anything or it’ll show something.
@@curiousentertainment3008 After having to recite it a hundred or more times when checking my .45 out of the armory, I still know its serial number after 50 years. I might look into that.
I remember when I was stationed in aunsbach Germany in 84 I was at our tac site we was cleaning out a storage shed and found a couple cases of c rats stamped 1945 we opened them and ate couple cans of spaghetti wasn't bad but our mre's sucked brings back some memories wow thk u and your uncle for your service God bless
@@terrywolf2260 same to you Brother. Mechanics pulled a tanker’s pack in Buedingen, mid 1980s. Under the engine was a lone, main meal, C ration can, I think it was the one that looked like cat food. The mechanic ate it, he said it was fine. Think about that, a can of potted meant, banging around under a tank engine, bathed in bilge oil, heat/ cold soaked for who knows how long, and still edible. The tank was an M60, the food had no date - I’m guessing it was probably from the very end of rations, before the MRE took over, maybe late 1970s? Good times.
That shelter half was part time tent half and part time mummy bag wrapper to keep you dry. It just depended on how mobile you were going to be the next day.
When I was in the Marines I was issued a two man pitch tent that still smelled like the previous lance corporals ball sack who used it, every time it rained I woke up soaked because the thing had 50 holes in it
E6000 glue is my goto for fixing that type of stuff. I'll use it to re waterproof boots from time to time. Although be careful of the fumes from it, unless you want to simulate a hangover.
I was never issued a tent as an army infantryman. You could make a shelter with 550 cord and a poncho if you had time. I did that maybe twice. But generally I was sleeping in my bivy cover during patrol base ops-regardless of weather.
One early war event in the early 2000's my unit had a 42 man strong company and some guy owned a few Sibley tents which we set up. Those things were freaking amazing.... so warm.
Before anyone concludes that this tent ratio is some kind of revelation today’s US Army uses the same general standard, especially with regard to all soldiers ranked below battalion level. As a veteran commissioned officer I carried my two shelter halves so that I had a “pup” tent to myself. My unit was a light infantry battalion, one of four in a Separate Brigade, and I served as intelligence staff officer reporting to the commander. For operational purposes the entire staff worked out of one wall tent, not three. We could have used those additional wall tents but the effort and machines needed to move them dictated that one was sufficient. I point this out for the benefit of those who have not served because the re-enactor in the video clearly leaves the impression that the Union Army soldiers were making some kind of monumental sacrifice. They were not!
Maybe he does, but he is likely referencing in context all the "common tents" for enlisted that were used in the previous era and early in the 1860s war. Based on French design about 2 meters long, wide and high. Intended to house a section of men 5 privates and a cpl. Those are popular in living history camps. The 1862 reorganization on both sides of that conflict would streamline things tremendously. The USA had never mounted a force with over 140,000 men before 1860 that marched way ahead of teamsters wagons...much less two armies about a million strong each trying to outflank each other.
I began my career in the Army in 1976. One "shelter half" was still standard issue for enlisted men into 1986. After that, I went to a unit that didn't carry shelter with them. We either slept well or hidden in the open.
I would think (not a historian here, so just my opinion) the reason for Staff officer's or higher getting bigger, besides rank=privilege is that their tents could also double as offices/Conference areas. I'm drawing this conclusion because I've worked in the S3 of an Regiment and had to deal with (modern) Staff officer's and higher.
When i was in the army we didnt get issued tents. We just got a sleeping bag and a "waterproof" cover. Also a poncho. So when we were in the field we just slept under the stars and prayed it didnt rain or snow. If there was a camp engineers and the like set up tents or fobs ahead of our arrival.
Wow. Years ago I had an 1846 wedge tent. I bought it from a WTBS reinactor I never would have guessed it wasn’t standard issue as you see so many photos of rows or wedges. A shelter is next to useless
Those were issued for every 6 to 8 men in a company (every corporals section)...but in 1862/63 reorganization the cost and cumbersome movement of those tents were eliminated. Instead the emphasis was on the man being nearly self contained on the march. A half would work as a bivy, ground cloth or kit waterproof ....or could be coupled to any other man's standard half to make a dog tent.
After ITD, I think I built a shelter half like 2x in the fleet. Both for overnight crew serve shoots where we were mostly admin and no humps. The rest of the time we used ponchos and ponchos and poncho liner, wrapped up like a soft taco
Sure, thats what the regs said, but the soldiers got pretty creative during winter encampments. They had little cabins complete with hearths and chimneys built of stone.
Army had a half shelter. Then, the full team got a tent for all of us. The shock we gave some folks was that as Signal and Ammo Spec, I shared a common tent/room with guys. We didn't have enough females to be separated.
I really wish to see other military tents or useful stuff that are good, bad or even better than ours I find it interesting and rarely seen like yeah weapon and uniform or rations is cool but there are many cool things out there that is nice
22 years in the army and NOT ONE TIME after basic training did I ever erect a shelter half. The single most useless peice of sh*t ever issued to a grunt.
Just like every other army, things would be "acquired" to make their lives easier and or more comfortable in the field. The army generally doesn't care as long as they are not paying for it. Just don't lose that shelter half or they will charge you for it....
That's not to bad. I was only able to use my shelter half once at NTC for the first and last week. the rest of the time in the Army was sleeping under the stars in a sleeping bag and p*ssy pad
I remember getting my shelter half in basic training. So in order to set up a tent you and your battle buddy had to cooperate and set one shelter up for two people.
What is a 3 wall tent? I had a shelf half. I used more than you would think. Basic, NTC, 4 times, when you get there and when you come out of the box. And PLDC
Remember shelter haves in my basic-ait Regular army we had GP mediums in the field, and sometimes we wouldnt sleep in those some nights after setting them up.
Every soldier takes one strip of cloth, four sticks and one sting. No you can make a tent for two people by combining two. Or a tent for four people by combining four, with the option of fire in the center.
@@ericoberlies7537 I was often put out in isolated areas. There was no one to check on me. I was in trouble plenty of times for doing the right thing(not the Army thing). A CSM, an LTC, and a COL appreciated the way that I got things done and I was left alone. By the 1980s I was with Civil Works in the USACE and never was in the field again. I hope that you benefited from your service. Good Luck, Rick
IN THE ARMY RESERVES SUMMER CAMP IN 1965AT FT LEONARD WOOD MO WE HAD 3 DAYS WITH BIVOUAC CAMPING WITH HALF TENTS AND AN UNEVEN NUMBER OF US WITH HALF TENTS! AS IT WAS WE HAD NO EXTRA HALF TENTS TO ATTACH TO MY HALF! I THEN WENT TO WHERE WE HAD OUR TRUCKS PARKED AND CLIMBED INTO THE COVERED TRUCK BED TO SLEEP! THIS WAS NOT VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE HARD STEEL FLOOR OF THE TRUCK BED! THE CANVAS BED COVER WAS LOOSE AND FLOPPY , SO I SLEPT BETWEEN THE BOWS AND ATOP THE CANVAS AND HAD AN HAMMOCK TYPE PLACE TO SLEEP! IT WAS COMFORTABLE , AND AFTERWARDS SLEPT WELL THERE! THAT WAS MY LAST OPPORTUNITY TO SLEEP IN ARMY MANUVERS!
Pure luxury compared to the napoleonic era - these men had zero tents at all. Bivouacing hat the meaning of sleeping in the open, just with your greatcoat, hay etc. if available. Even in 1870 the Germans did it that way with bad results.
Wall tents are larger like a small canvas room roughly 10x15feet and room to stand, the shelter is the tiny triangle tent, so a half shelter would be 2 guys per tiny tent.
Those shelter tents with a high open "gable end" are horrible, a bit of rain in the wrong direction would soak half the tent. We were taught [UK] to never have the "high side" above knee height when we bashaed up - and American Civil War soldiers weren't stupid. So what gives.
Fascinating. I'm guessing the commissioned officers in question are the Company commanders, ie Captains, and Lieutenants. The Colonel and his staff are the Lt. Colonel and Major?
Officers should be ashamed of themselves getting such better conditions when they have the least risk. Pampered while the enlisted people sometimes FORCED on penalty of death, are stuck sharing an even worse tent than an officer gets to himself.
Historians and reenactors. It's part of a human experience and if you lack the empathy to connect to those of the past, then you must live a miserable life.
Someone's not as smart as they think they are. Verb edit bivouac (third-person singular simple present bivouacs or bivouacks, present participle bivouacing or bivouacking, simple past and past participle bivouacked) To set up camp. quotations ▼ We'll bivouac here tonight.
When in marine boot camp, the DI said remember those tents in the Civil War movies....Well we use the same shit
Do you at least get to pick what color you get?
@@elgoog7830The pink ones went first. 😅
I was in the army in 84 and we used the same bs tents they sucked thk u for your service brother
Wouldn't surprise me if some of those tents were from the Civil War era, too.
@@itskarl7575 they sure smelled like it, the two man tent I got issued in the Marines was nasty
Forty some years ago, I was discussing gear with my WWII uncle. I had mentioned my mess kit had been stamped “USA 1943”… it turns out we had the same type of mess kits, shelter halves, three tent poles, and tent stakes in common.
The same thing went for my .45, which was made in 1944. I'm sure that the Army kept records of when it was issued and it would have been interesting to trace its history.
@@Snargfargleif you still have the serial number you can request the government look it up for you. It might not show anything or it’ll show something.
@@curiousentertainment3008 After having to recite it a hundred or more times when checking my .45 out of the armory, I still know its serial number after 50 years. I might look into that.
I remember when I was stationed in aunsbach Germany in 84 I was at our tac site we was cleaning out a storage shed and found a couple cases of c rats stamped 1945 we opened them and ate couple cans of spaghetti wasn't bad but our mre's sucked brings back some memories wow thk u and your uncle for your service God bless
@@terrywolf2260 same to you Brother.
Mechanics pulled a tanker’s pack in Buedingen, mid 1980s. Under the engine was a lone, main meal, C ration can, I think it was the one that looked like cat food. The mechanic ate it, he said it was fine. Think about that, a can of potted meant, banging around under a tank engine, bathed in bilge oil, heat/ cold soaked for who knows how long, and still edible. The tank was an M60, the food had no date - I’m guessing it was probably from the very end of rations, before the MRE took over, maybe late 1970s? Good times.
I had a shelter half while serving in the USMC. haha
They didn’t change much from the civil war era.
Same in the Army when I went thru basic in mid-80’s
I got one from a friend of mine when I was like 8 years old. He was in the air force
That shelter half was part time tent half and part time mummy bag wrapper to keep you dry. It just depended on how mobile you were going to be the next day.
Me too but army. I was wondering where that came from.
The ‘Shelter Half’ was standard organization issue for every U.S. Army Enlisted personnel in 1970.
When I was in the Marines I was issued a two man pitch tent that still smelled like the previous lance corporals ball sack who used it, every time it rained I woke up soaked because the thing had 50 holes in it
I have a Civil War shelter half. It didn't need holes. If it rained hard enough a mist came through the canvas. We through our ponchos over it.
@@shawnb4938. Only 50 holes?
Mfs out there with tents that took Spanish machine gun fire in 1898
E6000 glue is my goto for fixing that type of stuff. I'll use it to re waterproof boots from time to time.
Although be careful of the fumes from it, unless you want to simulate a hangover.
I was never issued a tent as an army infantryman. You could make a shelter with 550 cord and a poncho if you had time. I did that maybe twice. But generally I was sleeping in my bivy cover during patrol base ops-regardless of weather.
One early war event in the early 2000's my unit had a 42 man strong company and some guy owned a few Sibley tents which we set up. Those things were freaking amazing.... so warm.
Those were intended to house an entire platoon and their kit.
Before anyone concludes that this tent ratio is some kind of revelation today’s US Army uses the same general standard, especially with regard to all soldiers ranked below battalion level. As a veteran commissioned officer I carried my two shelter halves so that I had a “pup” tent to myself.
My unit was a light infantry battalion, one of four in a Separate Brigade, and I served as intelligence staff officer reporting to the commander. For operational purposes the entire staff worked out of one wall tent, not three. We could have used those additional wall tents but the effort and machines needed to move them dictated that one was sufficient.
I point this out for the benefit of those who have not served because the re-enactor in the video clearly leaves the impression that the Union Army soldiers were making some kind of monumental sacrifice. They were not!
Maybe he does, but he is likely referencing in context all the "common tents" for enlisted that were used in the previous era and early in the 1860s war. Based on French design about 2 meters long, wide and high. Intended to house a section of men 5 privates and a cpl. Those are popular in living history camps.
The 1862 reorganization on both sides of that conflict would streamline things tremendously. The USA had never mounted a force with over 140,000 men before 1860 that marched way ahead of teamsters wagons...much less two armies about a million strong each trying to outflank each other.
I began my career in the Army in 1976. One "shelter half" was still standard issue for enlisted men into 1986. After that, I went to a unit that didn't carry shelter with them. We either slept well or hidden in the open.
When I got to Ft. Drum in 1995, it was still the shelter half.
I would think (not a historian here, so just my opinion) the reason for Staff officer's or higher getting bigger, besides rank=privilege is that their tents could also double as offices/Conference areas.
I'm drawing this conclusion because I've worked in the S3 of an Regiment and had to deal with (modern) Staff officer's and higher.
When i was in the army we didnt get issued tents. We just got a sleeping bag and a "waterproof" cover. Also a poncho. So when we were in the field we just slept under the stars and prayed it didnt rain or snow. If there was a camp engineers and the like set up tents or fobs ahead of our arrival.
Wow.
Years ago I had an 1846 wedge tent. I bought it from a WTBS reinactor I never would have guessed it wasn’t standard issue as you see so many photos of rows or wedges.
A shelter is next to useless
Those were issued for every 6 to 8 men in a company (every corporals section)...but in 1862/63 reorganization the cost and cumbersome movement of those tents were eliminated.
Instead the emphasis was on the man being nearly self contained on the march. A half would work as a bivy, ground cloth or kit waterproof ....or could be coupled to any other man's standard half to make a dog tent.
I do NOT miss sleeping on the cold wet ground during a winter rain storm inside a shelter half tent 🥴
Sleeping is a strong word for such action
After ITD, I think I built a shelter half like 2x in the fleet. Both for overnight crew serve shoots where we were mostly admin and no humps. The rest of the time we used ponchos and ponchos and poncho liner, wrapped up like a soft taco
I was in the Army from 1987-1992. We were still issued shelter halves at that time.
Sure, thats what the regs said, but the soldiers got pretty creative during winter encampments. They had little cabins complete with hearths and chimneys built of stone.
Yup. That's what we had back in the early 1960s.
Out in the field, about 6pm. "Battle buddy up and get your fucking shelter halves put together on the double!"
Ahh the good days
My dad had a shelter half when in Europe in WWII.
And here Ive spent the last 11 years sleeping in a bag or under a poncho. And the Army doesnt even issue ponchos anymore!
Subscribed!
That's what we had in the 80s. A shelter half, 3 poles and 5 pegs. You had to buddy up so you better be friends with a small guy.
Do Remember when you got caught pitching a Tent!!😂😅
In December after the Battle of Fredericksburg they had a lot more free tents
I would just sleep in my truck.
In the lap of luxury, living in style, living large all saying that dont describe the army life.
Army had a half shelter. Then, the full team got a tent for all of us. The shock we gave some folks was that as Signal and Ammo Spec, I shared a common tent/room with guys. We didn't have enough females to be separated.
I really wish to see other military tents or useful stuff that are good, bad or even better than ours I find it interesting and rarely seen like yeah weapon and uniform or rations is cool but there are many cool things out there that is nice
2 man shelter tent. Cozy.
22 years in the army and NOT ONE TIME after basic training did I ever erect a shelter half. The single most useless peice of sh*t ever issued to a grunt.
If it works don’t break it. Shelter halves are perfect for military use.
In other words ever single civil war movie ever got tents wrong lol
Just like every other army, things would be "acquired" to make their lives easier and or more comfortable in the field.
The army generally doesn't care as long as they are not paying for it. Just don't lose that shelter half or they will charge you for it....
That's not to bad. I was only able to use my shelter half once at NTC for the first and last week. the rest of the time in the Army was sleeping under the stars in a sleeping bag and p*ssy pad
Be real cool if i already knew what those looked like
That was intense.
My great great grandpas put up with a lot.
I had a shelter half in 1992. I used it at ntc. Ft Irwin. Lol
Never pitch your tent uphill me boys, never pitch your tent uphill me boys.
In 2004 during Basic Training, I had half a shelter half just like this for the field exercises we did. Sucks having to share a space that small
I remember getting my shelter half in basic training. So in order to set up a tent you and your battle buddy had to cooperate and set one shelter up for two people.
Nice, next time I am on Jeopardy, I'm sure to win.
What is a 3 wall tent? I had a shelf half. I used more than you would think. Basic, NTC, 4 times, when you get there and when you come out of the box. And PLDC
*Retired USAF sips his hazelnut flavored coffee from his worn out & comfy ChAirForce and shivers at thought*
Remember shelter haves in my basic-ait
Regular army we had GP mediums in the field, and sometimes we wouldnt sleep in those some nights after setting them up.
Would be nice if he showed the different type on tents
US army today. “Wait you guys got tents?”
I've used poncho as a shelter. No big deal
Consider that most the cotton was coming from the south and then it wasn't
That makes a lot of sense.
Every soldier takes one strip of cloth, four sticks and one sting.
No you can make a tent for two people by combining two. Or a tent for four people by combining four, with the option of fire in the center.
I didn’t know Scott from full house was in the Civil War
War IS hell
War. War never changes
Would like to see you do a video on if wearing the entire dress officers uniform on campaign or at a re enactment is NUG. Even for general officers. 😁
What is “NUG”?
@@garyowen9044 in re-enactor parlance.its an acronym for Normal, Usual, General. Boots and Saddles! "garryowen".
@@unitedwithbritian thank you!
Seventh First!
I swore this was Tom Cruz from the 80's😂
Me, too. Lol😂
Don’t go to a civil war reenactment. Wall tents for every soldier in the company
What is Tom cruise doing there?
I was an PL in the Army in the 1970s. I had 2 shelter halves but usually just slept in the back of my jeep.
By the time I was in, in the Eighties, there was a policy or rule against sleeping in vehicles.
@@ericoberlies7537 I was often put out in isolated areas. There was no one to check on me. I was in trouble plenty of times for doing the right thing(not the Army thing). A CSM, an LTC, and a COL appreciated the way that I got things done and I was left alone. By the 1980s I was with Civil Works in the USACE and never was in the field again. I hope that you benefited from your service. Good Luck, Rick
Same here but in the 1990s and back of my HMWV
poncho, woobie, sleeping mask (sometimes known as a watch cap.
And homeless people in Ca demand free apartments.
What an in-tents video.
Gotcha. Funny😂😂😂
IN THE ARMY RESERVES SUMMER CAMP IN 1965AT FT LEONARD WOOD MO WE HAD 3 DAYS WITH BIVOUAC
CAMPING WITH HALF TENTS
AND AN UNEVEN NUMBER OF US WITH HALF TENTS!
AS IT WAS WE HAD NO EXTRA HALF TENTS TO ATTACH TO MY HALF!
I THEN WENT TO WHERE WE HAD OUR TRUCKS PARKED
AND CLIMBED INTO THE COVERED TRUCK BED TO SLEEP!
THIS WAS NOT VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE HARD STEEL FLOOR OF THE TRUCK BED!
THE CANVAS BED COVER WAS LOOSE AND FLOPPY , SO I SLEPT BETWEEN THE BOWS AND ATOP THE CANVAS AND HAD AN HAMMOCK TYPE PLACE TO SLEEP!
IT WAS COMFORTABLE , AND AFTERWARDS SLEPT WELL THERE!
THAT WAS MY LAST OPPORTUNITY TO SLEEP IN ARMY MANUVERS!
Shelter half’s ate good; except when in odd numbers!
All that stress. They were 'two tents".. Ahem....
Why does this guy look like a young Tom Cruise?
What about when they requestitioned a home as headquarters? Did officers sleep there?
Those sleeves looking rather short for you solder
It was 'did' because it was past tents from back then lol
Pure luxury compared to the napoleonic era - these men had zero tents at all. Bivouacing hat the meaning of sleeping in the open, just with your greatcoat, hay etc. if available. Even in 1870 the Germans did it that way with bad results.
Tom Cruise? Is that you?
Bureaucrats in action.
Bivy sac and nothing else basically every field exercise
Subscribe engaged!
All Past tents...
What is the difference between,since I have never heard of those types of tents?
Wall tents are larger like a small canvas room roughly 10x15feet and room to stand, the shelter is the tiny triangle tent, so a half shelter would be 2 guys per tiny tent.
Those shelter tents with a high open "gable end" are horrible, a bit of rain in the wrong direction would soak half the tent.
We were taught [UK] to never have the "high side" above knee height when we bashaed up - and American Civil War soldiers weren't stupid.
So what gives.
Any good recommendations for period correct tents?
What're you portraying? Federal or Confederate?
What is a 3 wall tent?!
How do ya'll deal with lightning 🌩????
We don't get struck. I've been at a few events where it's storming and you take cover the best you can, just like they did
Only the enlisted have to carry their tents.
It was a war, not a camping trip.
Did he just say servants!?sounds suspicious!?
Why did I need to know this?
We didnt have shelters . Only the officers.
Gee I wonder why staff officers have a bad rap. I was one before and yes we got better billiting.
Is his jacket supposed to fit like that?
Standard issue sizes are notorious for not fitting! Lol.
@@Elk6903 That much seems clear!
A single tent with three walls. Not three separate tents with walls. The forth wall if the tent is made up of the door.
The tents are called ‘wall tents.’ A full regiment would have three of them for regimental staff.
Nothing much changed in the Army from 1862 to 1972.
March tents on March tenth? 😂
Fascinating. I'm guessing the commissioned officers in question are the Company commanders, ie Captains, and Lieutenants. The Colonel and his staff are the Lt. Colonel and Major?
you didn't say non officers like the privates
That’s what the enlisted are
@@user-be6hs8rp3d privates aren't officers
@@0011peace yeah that would be when he said all others towards the end of the vid
Right
Don’t obey that now
I carried a shelter half in basic training. In bat i never carried a tent just a poncho. We slept in a GP medium in the field.
But they only ordered 150,000 sets of tent poles to over 2.5 million shelters lol
You didn't carry poles, you made them by cutting down sapplings on campaign. Or by tying the seller half off your rifles or a tree.
Officers should be ashamed of themselves getting such better conditions when they have the least risk. Pampered while the enlisted people sometimes FORCED on penalty of death, are stuck sharing an even worse tent than an officer gets to himself.
Nah, they had a high risk job in the war too. They lead from the front and were just as much in harm's way.
So 160 years later who really gives a damn what they slept in?😂
Historians and reenactors. It's part of a human experience and if you lack the empathy to connect to those of the past, then you must live a miserable life.
@@davisjacobs5748 / historians what the hell do they know they haven’t got anything correct🤷♂️
@ronroberti8082 ah yes, because historians are wrong when they say the Union won the war
Wouldn't Airbnb be more comfortable ?
The Army of the Potomac 👎👎👎👎👎
Union army is boring
Bruhhh, this guy really said "bivouac". Lmaoooo
Bushwhack....
Someone's not as smart as they think they are.
Verb
edit
bivouac (third-person singular simple present bivouacs or bivouacks, present participle bivouacing or bivouacking, simple past and past participle bivouacked)
To set up camp. quotations ▼
We'll bivouac here tonight.
You never heard the term "bivouac"? Please don't say you were in the US military.