We need to talk about APPLE MUSIC & hi-res audio
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2021
- Camera: Olaf von Voss | Editor: John Darko | Motion GFX: John Darko | Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
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Apple Music lossless + hires lossless announcement:
darko.audio/2021/05/apple-mus...
No, Bluetooth cannot deliver hi-res audio:
darko.audio/2020/11/no-blueto...
No, the Apple TV cannot do hi-res audio:
discussions.apple.com/thread/....
Set up audio devices in Audio MIDI Setup on Mac:
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How to change "sound control panel" settings in Windows 10:
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Zorloo Ztella:
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Japanese waves M1 Macbook Air case:
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LG V40:
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USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP):
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iPhone 6S Plus:
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Audeze Sine w/ Cipher MFi cable:
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Made for iPhone (MFi) certification:
mfi.apple.com/
Roon:
darko.audio/2021/02/a-short-f...
Audirvana Studio:
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#applemusic #hires #gotcha
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The best thing Apple Music has done is offer it at no added cost, no surprise that instantly led to Amazon dropping the supplemental cost for their 'HD' service and now the ball is in Spotify's court.
Yep. Spotify has momentum, a very big user base and great algorithms. I like it for the algorithms and breadth and volume of music on offer. I hope they follow the Apple and Amazon cue. I would not mind having a better quality Spotify. I'm sure the artists would welcome that too. The "digital costs" keep dropping, so it may just be possible. How much "slack" is there in the "cloud" right now?
Yep. I love this chan.
Amazon is in worser shape than Apple Music in the areas covered by this video.
@@danielwharton8332 The reason for mentioning Amazon was about the influence of Apple's decision on the marketplace and how it will make Spotify's pricing strategy for their 'HiFi tier' interesting.
A £/$5 cost undercutting Tidal would be a thing in the audiophile realm. In the more mainstream market consumers (whether they have the requisite equipment or not) will be making comparisons to Apple and wondering why the additional cost. That's if they care about lossless/Hi-Res at all.
The best thing now, but in the long run it can be very bad too. Seemingly no music streaming service makes money, even Spotify has operated on a regular loss for years and the small ones (Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer) can not compete with price. But for Apple and Amazon, the bottom line of the music service itself probably does not even matter since it's just a mandatory part of their ecosystem.
Supplemental reading for the hard of watching: darko.audio/2021/06/apple-musics-hi-res-streaming-is-a-bit-of-a-mess/
*PLEASE READ CAREFULLY* Please be a decent human being and keep your sexist/racist thoughts and conspiracy theories to yourself. External links are also a no-no. Comments that *advance* the conversation are most welcome.
@@Steven_Kiagiadakis Please see my Instagram for examples.
I can’t explain why I found those Gotcha’s so funny, but I was cracking up each time they popped up with that sound 😂 😂 😂
same
every time it made the sound effect I started laughing
LMAOOOO it was too funny
Gotcha!!!
😂😂
Personally, I think the only real gotcha for a large portion of the HiFi community is Airplay 2 only supporting CD quality streaming. Maybe I’m in a minority, but I don’t stream from my phone for long listening sessions and don’t have the equipment to even enjoy lossless in a portable format for out and about. I think increasing the streaming quality for no increase in money is a much better thing for HiFi than bad.
24/48 - Qobuz call this HRes.
Apple changes "standards" like socks. And Apple users are amazingly tolerant of this.
You’ve highlighted there why Apple probably COULDN’T charge for it. None of their own devices are capable of lossless listening without dongle-city, and no one will pay to stream cd quality music from their phone to an airplay device at home.
Hey man you can stream 24/48 kHz on air play 2 but not higher.
@@mf0u3021 The Apple lightning to 3.5mm dongle measures well enough. I think people can just use that, no need for another dongle.
Even if it isn't perfect now, having the option at all is still a huge step in the right direction. But always good to push for UX improvements.
LOL how's that step looking now? You still an Apple fanboy? I don't understand why you would be. THEY were the ones to take away the headphone jack and they STILL don't offer headphones capable of wireless Hi-Res. Hell, pretty sure that their dongles are capped at 24/44.1 as well. So it's STILL impossible to listen to Hi-Res without going with a 3rd party solution to shit Apple products.
I’m using two different systems at home. One is an AV with Atmos 7.4.2 and the other is a purely music setup. There I’m using a Cambridge CXN v2 into a stereo musical fidelity amp. Via airplay it sounds pretty good but using a laptop and the remote app, I get ALAC and it really tightens up the stereo image and baseline. Very, very nice.
In my movie room the spatial music sounds freaking amazing in Atmos (spatial). They really put the instruments in certain speakers and hold them there. Music sounds amazing.
All I can say is THANK YOU APPLE.
yeah, but not all tracks are good in Atmos on Apple Music, much is down to the mastering, mixing and editing wether it's hit or miss, most stuff by the Weeknd for example, sound awesome in Atmos Spatial, but others might not
Wait you have 4 subs???! Why
If you have CA CXN V2, connect your iPhone to the CXN using a lightning to USB type B cable. You will get Hi-Res audio.
There are a couple of DACs available for the iPhone without the "Dongle-Hell":
- Hiby FC3
- Lotoo Paw S1
- Hilidac Beam 2S
- Audirect Beam 2SE
- and then there is the Fiio LT-LT1 cable - something you can pair up with anything that has USB-C Input
Exactly. Lotoo paw s1 on my iphone 12 pro max is awesome, sounds good even on my trusty old hd600. No dongle hell at all, just pure hi-res lossless heaven.
@@paoc4818 do you have experience with other dacs and amps which are made for desktops?
Comments like these should be upvoted. Very informative. Thx for the tip.
ALO pilot !
With usb-c to lightning dongle out of box
The Lotoo Paw S1 doesnt work with the iphone...see amazon reviews
I wake up this morning and I have Lossless on Apple music, I got an improvement in audio quality for NO ADDITIONAL COST and all I had to do was wakeup.
Me too ! It’s brilliant
@@tomf1dublin1 Spatial audio is a fun feature on some tracks with headphones. Bit hit and miss, but once again a feature I didn't have and now I do for no extra money.
Works great in my car, it genuinely lifts the engagement level a lot.
No no no, you and everyone else signed up to apple music have been paying the company MONTHLY... You definitely deserve it, but it didn't come at "no additional cost".
Hi John, I really enjoy your channel.
There is just one thing about bluetooth audio I wants to add. There is a benefit to lossless streaming even if you use bluetooth. When you stream lossy your phone decodes the stream to 44.1/16 (or similar) and then codes it for Bluetooth lossy again. This effectively multiplies(!) errors from one lossy compression by the second one. If you would stream lossless you would get only one set of compression errors. It will definitely have potential to sound better and in my experience does.
Also, Bluetooth standard allows for sending music stream without transcoding, as long as receiver is able to decide the stream. This means that depending on Apple's current implementation it is perfectly possible that AAC stream from apple music is not transcoded and send directly to headphones. If that would be the case lossless would have no benefit. It would also be the first time no transcoding is used before sending music through Bluetooth in consumer electronics as far as I heard of. Everybody does it because it is easier to decode every input to one common bit depth / sample rate. This probably has something in common with android's resampling to 48kHz everything that goes through USB driver.
Isn't there a max of 256 kbps bitrate on non-transcoded Bluetooth passthru?
I’m off to listen to some cassettes on my Walkman.
This is all getting to be more bother than it’s worth.
🤪
🤣🤣🤣🤔🤔
What about using the Apple TV via HDMI? My Lyngdorf has a HDMI input.
Yes I was also thinking of using the Apple TV to feed my system. Wonder why Darko didn’t cover that?
Because I don't have a DAC with HDMI input that also tells me the incoming sample rate. However, to the best of my knowledge, the Apple TV resamples everything to 48kHz before sending it out of the HDMI/TOSLINK socket.
@@DarkoAudio Thanks for the reply, I watch most of your videos! You may want to consider trying a Lyngdorf system, just saying.
@@DarkoAudio I really don't understand why so many companies are so quick to have the audio resampled. There's so many products I won't even try because they resample in some capacity. Just give me the music as it exists!
@@DarkoAudio I am going nuts on this toppic the whole day. As you said, I dont want a laptop in the HiFi Rack. When i got this right, you get HiRes with the Apple TV Update later this year. I dont have an amp with HDMI either (I have an MCR 612). So I have to use the TV itself. But will HiRes through TV work? How do I get the HiRes in the amp. I considered switching to the Marantz Nr 1200. But some people say thats not a good amp. Any advice are appreciatetd!
I was just pondering this last night. Great timing!
Excellent overview, however it keeps me where I was, which is my "two worlds" audio system - full res FLAC in the home audio system for serious home playback, and a second set of high rate AAC files on the phone for all mobile listening, including car.
For me, using air play to my DigiOne streamer will be fine. I really don’t see many downsides since I don’t care about high res anyway, so still being able to play at cd quality is good enough for me. Someone please correct me if I’m misunderstanding.
I'm with you Dan. I buy-in to John's point of view that the jump to CD quality across the whole streaming library is a much more important consideration than the relatively limited hi-res catalogue. As an Apple user (Mac and iPhone) I took up the free trial of Apple Music when the lossless service was announced (to check app useability and the music catalogue) and today I checked if I liked what I heard over Airplay through my Chord Poly/Mojo in to my hi-fi. As a result I have now cancelled my Tidal subscription and reduced my monthly costs by 50%. The beauty of the current situation, with so many lossless streaming services and Spotify Hi-Fi coming soon, is that if I don't like it in the long run I can always change again with little pain.
Nope you’re not misunderstanding anything. If you want to believe you are listening to high res just buy a high res sticker and put it on your streamer 😂
The problem with Airplay is it sounds significantly worse than UPnP or Chromecast. At least that's the case on my system. Not to mention resampling any hires music to 44.1khz.
For me using air play to my ls50 wireless 2 working fine also with dragonfly and wired headphones I think apple give extra with this lossless
The problem is that the Apple bluetooth protocol LDAC only attains 990 kbps at best (and quite a bit less when moving around the house) and 16/44.1 bitrate is 1411 kbps.
But Apple users seriously believe in magic. CD quality when wired, slightly (or not so slightly) compressed in wireless. Apple is adamant in that LDAC conveys CD sound. Most people don't know the details but love wireless devices.
MQA is living proof that lossy compression is accepted when selling it as an "upgrade", a "great leap forward" that "sounds better" and that people "want it". Kids are not the only humans who play "pretend". (!)
Thanks for the heads up John. Keep them coming.
I have UA-cam music, hopefully they see how far behind they are and join the rest of the pack on bringing lossless
when I do not find a track on Qobuz I sometime find it on youtube but often I do not find it on Tidal which I cancelled anyway, having just taken Apple music Tonight is too early to tell but seems the choice not much better than Qobuz or Tidal (for hard to find stuff I mean)
so it would be good news indeed if youtube joint the CD quality new de facto standard…
AMEN!!!! My guess is it’s just a matter of time for UA-cam Music….just hope its not years….
I've had Spotify, Tidal & Qobuz. All great great platforms honestly. And I am 100% fully aware that YT Music has its flaws.
But I listen to a lot of live videos/versions, small UA-cam bands and creators, covers, bands & singers might post short videos or fun/alternative versions of songs.
This is all stuff I just cannot get anywhere else, or at least not as broadly
@@omarjimenez8895 unfortunately YT Music a quite a bit less detailed than Spotify for me. That much that I can even feel the difference even with $15 earphone. If not I would've move.
Why not a lightning to usb into a hip dac. I use that with my sundara headphones. Working good so far.
Same! I’m also using that. And it goes up to the highest Apple Music HiRes. Even my Walkman A55 using USB Dac Mode does it. 🤷🏻♂️
Was going to ask the same thing. Very happy with my hip DAC.
I’m going to try that taking it into my amps USB b input. But the 5 metre cable running across the room will be a nuisance.
Yep, works with my cheapo xDuoo out of the box, and it’s not even that bulky; considering it’s a free upgrade - what’s not to like?
Yeah, I use my phone with a lightning to MIDI usb cable into my dac. No complaints so far…
I can listen to ALAC 24/48 with just my iPhone, their very little dongle and my Audio Technica MSR7 for $9.99. That's for me a win situation. Dolby Atmos is a plus here btw. No other platform is offering me 24/48 audio for $9.99 (Amazon HD is not available in Mexico yet and Amazon doesn't has a lot of my favorite albums). I know and I understand that a lot of people who listen to 24/192 or that use network streamers or etc, etc, will have a lot of issues but, for a lot of people who only has an iPhone, their dongle and wired headphones, this is a win.
@@Endemoniada Just want to correct you, CD isn't lossy. CD is lossless. 16/44.1 is lossless. Apple's music used to be AAC 256 which is lossy audio. Apple Music went from AAC 256 TO 16/44.1 lossless. So in 'lossless' you have 16/44.1 up to 24/48. Anything above that is Hi-res lossless, so 24/96, 24/192
@@blakewarford1168 , great clarification! In reality, very few people can pick out the difference in music quality beyond 24/48 into hires territory. You would really need to train your hearing in near perfect listening environment. In fact, I believe the head of Apple Music admitted he couldn't tell the difference himself.
I bought an Oppo HA-2 Dac and headphone amplifier 6 years ago which I am still using and the design was made to take an iPod or an iPhone beautifully. It connects directly via USB, looks great and sounds superb. Oppo only make cell phones now, which is a shame, but I’ve never been able to understand why portable Dac producers have such poor designs as shown in this and previous videos. The biggest culprit must be the Chord Mojo which has been raved about, but John showed when reviewing it how poor it is for conveniently attaching to any phone or iPod.Some of the iFi dacs come close but have disappointed reviewers and customers for their portable inconvenience. I have purchased a Chord Hugo2 for listening at home but will stick with my Oppo HA-2 for travelling for the foreseeable future. The HA-2 is of course available second hand but now often more expensive than my original purchase! Worth a look though.
Great video as always, John. On the move I use TempoTec Sonata HD Pro. When I bought it, it came with Lightning to Micro USB for IPhone plus USB-C to Micro USB for iPad Air or any Android plus USB C to USB converter for laptop connection. Paired with Beyerdynamic Soul Byrds, the whole lot costs less than a Dragonfly Black! Very happy, no dongle hell.
My only streaming in the house is for headphones for Tidal, mostly for work when the radio is **** and also to choose which CDs to buy. For that I use iPad Air as streamer via USB into iFi Zen DAC and Zen CAN, both Signature editions with Sundaras. Have to say the sound is brilliant and I finally get why people like headphones. No illusions about high res, but wired CD quality is fine.
Thank you for this video. I've watched it through three times now because I always struggle with getting my head around this stuff. I think in my case I am fine with just switching to Apple Music. I have been using Tidal and I do like it but to pay that extra money over Apple Music does not make sense for me anymore. I listen to music with Sennheiser HD 800 S headphones connected to a Meridian headphone amp (with seperate power supply) connected to my Mac Mini (2019). With Tidal I had MQA and I always liked having that but I can live without it I think. I also listen to music with HomePods (controlled with my iPhone or my iPad) which I have dotted around my house, but that is not "attentive listening", however I am pretty much 100% in the Apple ecosystem so, Apple Music makes sense.
'Apple ecosystem' is like a 'walled garden'. :(
@@rsupp - I really like walled gardens 😀. If I was not in the Apple ecosystem maybe I’d have more options however I just don’t want to spend the time working it all out. I first started using Macs at the beginning of the 90s and I think that by staying with Apple and not switching to Windows I saved myself a huge amount of time over the years in not having to debug things and generally sort out problems. So now I feel it is the same thing, with Apple it all works pretty well and I don’t have to spend a lot of time figuring it out.
What about coverage through Apple TV?
Good question.
One thing he didn’t mention is if you airplay to an Apple TV, it streams from the Apple TV not your phone. Not as good as Spotify Connect but a similar concept. I use this feature all the time.
Will eventually work on the 4K version of AppleTV. Not the prior versions.
“First, the document indicates that the Apple TV 4K "currently doesn't support Hi-Res Lossless," with only the standard Lossless tier ranging from 16-bit at 44.1 kHz to 24-bit at 48 kHz to be available on the Apple TV 4K at launch. Apple's use of the word "currently" leaves the door open to a future software update with Hi-Res Lossless support for the device, but Apple has not confirmed this at this time.”
Working in the beta at capped 16/44, regardless of the source file.
@@jamesandtina nope, it'll need a hardware refresh for that as the dac in the current apple tv 4k maxes out to 24/48 sadly.
great review, thanks for the update!
This was such a useful video! As a noob in the field, I had no idea I had to manually change the bitrate.
I use ddHiFi lightning to type-c (it’s just a small adapter with no additional tail) / dragontail / dragonfly
That was far more "Gotchas" than I can handle. I'm a disaster at streaming in the first place.
Great video, very informative. . Love the sound effects for the Gotcha's.
Great informative video again John thanks. Still waiting for the dac part 3 though 😂😂😂 keeping me in suspenders 😂
I’m stoked, I’ve been on Apple Music for years and just juggled a tidal subscription for my “serious listening” this is going to make life so much easier. And I have a computer at my desk and in my entertainment center so it’s a win all around for me.
Why is every video focused on headphones. What if I want hifi at home or in the car and I want to use Apple Music. If I have high res lossless in Apple Music and an after market sound system, and hook up via usb then am I getting high res lossless? I feel like the quality is better but not sure if it is the best. Any help is greatly appreciated.
excellent info, love it 😊 thank you 4 sharing
Love this breakdown! Also, I lol'd at EVERY single Gotcha! audio tag - thank you 🖤
Love that graphic of you.
As for Apple, I’ve been buying their stuff since 1984. It’s a love hate thing. Lots of gotchas over the years.
Apple is not charging extra for this, which is probably based on their knowing that it is not going to be easy to get the stuff if you are not on a computer. Let's appreciate what we get for now, it's better than nothing. Apple is big, they often push the industry forward when they enter it, so it might be that they are working on something already.
yeah we also getting dolby & spatial audio.
Tidal is twice the price in my country.. and the mqa is messy..
@@MrPimpJuiice mqa sucks..
Great video addressing a lot of the thoughts I had on Apple Music going lossless.
Background - Previous video on Spotify with a DAC inspired me to hook up a 3rd gen Apple TV via optical cable to mid-90s Cambridge Audio DACMagic 2i. Spotify on that combo sounded much warmer, if a touch less detailed than my 1st Gen Blusound Node. Which started me wondering if I could get better than CD quality with that combination. Guess I'm sticking to my Blusound Node for that.
I was waiting for u to make this video.
Honest question: So if there’s a gotcha in almost all of the alternatives you’re mentioning then why are Apple upgrading at all? Does it somewhat imply they may be considering releasing more compatible hi-fi audio devices themselves in the future? Or is it to much of a niche market not worth considering?
It is too much of a niche market for them. They are doing it only so they can meintain their premium image because everything Aplle does is the best in they eyes of most of their customers.
Also, Apple has comparatively large profit margins to Windows competitors thanks to consumers buying their products with the mindset that it's a luxury brand. For them, going lossless can potentially help pull in a new market share (AKA audio enthusiasts) that will force them to purchase more Apple products to properly integrate and utilize their subscription. If Apple is able to produce a connection system with higher resolution than Bluetooth (like a wifi-based communication system), then they can produce a new series of products that wirelessly streams Dolby Atmos content, hi-res music, and smart speakers with higher computing potential.
I personally see it as an opportunity for them to make iPhones capable of streaming high quality video content and movies, seeing how UA-cam, Netflix, etc. are some of the biggest forms of media consumption. I doubt audiophiles are really present in their goals for producing high-res streaming. They probably just want to make their home audio market competitive with Sonos, Amazon, etc. Like some other commenters mentioned, Apple TV could potentially work as a lossless AirPlay endpoint, and since they're pushing their own TV streaming service, that's probably their truest endgame: have consumers purchase all forms of electronic entertainment from them by building a convenient product and software ecosystem.
I think they’re setting this up ahead of launching a compatible “HomePod 2.0”. Now is this thing going to satisfy audiophile purists - probably not. But will it differentiate them in a crowded smart speaker market where there assistant comes in 3rd at best? Absolutely.
Since Bluetooth cannot support hi-res audio I believe that Apple is in the process of developing a new format using Wifi instead of BT to transmit high quality audio to various devices.
That sound effect is perfect, and hilarious
Really enjoyed the video John. Learned something new, and I like your delivery.
Good overview John, thanks.
I use my iPad Pro to stream Tidal to my Primare Prism amplifier using AirPlay. It works fine and sounds great with CD quality, but no hi-res.
Another option I have is to stream hires from my nas to the Prism using the Prism app, but I only have a few recordings.
So, waiting for Primare to implement Tidal connect (they are working on it) and waiting for Spotify Hifi to release and see how that works out.
So interesting. I wouldn’t call myself an audiophile at all. All I know is my entire office just spent the last 3 hours sitting in my office equipped with Focal Solo6 through an Apollo Solo comparing the difference between Apple lossless and Spotify and were blown away. I’m sure there’s more to be had, but it doesn’t negate the huge improvement normal people have just received for free.
I was so disappointed with Apple Music when I first subscribed a couple months ago. Especially with the quality. I have compared files i bought on iTunes which should be the same as the one i streamed (as they supposedly use the same codec) but clearly there was something off. I then made a comparison and noticed these weird artifacts in streamed tracks on the side channel. It was like a ducking effect, the snare completely disappeared from the side signal when it appeared in the tracks. Today when I finally tried lossless on Apple Music it was so much better. No weird ducking effect just nice clean tone overall. I really appreciate your thoughts on that topic and getting into Hi-Res "gothcha's" but for someone like me, who really care about the sound quality it's a game changer. Even on my AirPods Pro the difference is significant and that's the reason I moved to AM.
Darko new to the channel.I really enjoyed. Appreciate your explanation and experience.Thanks so much for sharing Deb.💯✌
Thank for the video Mr. Darko. Would it work better using the Apple TV? Also, a recent realisation, the Apple Watch has a better amp than the iPhone, but not a better DAC.
Let’s celebrate the incremental yet imperfect progress. Does it stream CD quality? Yes! The rest is up to you to research and figure out!
Haha! This video is hilarious. I don’t know how many of these paths I’ve already been down.
Yes, but it's not Hi-res. And this video, per the title and intro, is about hi-res.
Great Video. I'm considering taking advantage of Apple's lossless music by purchasing a iFi Zen DAC (connected to my iMac) and a suitable pair of headphones (still trying to decide which). Will that not work? Connect with USB C?
Should work. Check out the Zen Signature DAC, I’m using one with a MacPro and love it.
Thank you for the video. It's a good one. So if you connect your Macbook Pro or iPad pro with USB to an external DAC that is capable of sampling up to 24/192, is the new Apple lossless hi-res will truly be hi-res just like Qobuz or Tidal, etc.. ?
I’ve started listening to APPLE MUSIC vs Roon with Tidal and Qobuz and I must say it sounds really really good. I have some high end headphone gear retailing in the $50k area and so far APPLE MUSIC sounds the best from what I have tried.
The sound has improved significantly since testing a few tracks tonight … one more benefit for using the Mac Mini as a Roon core 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Is it live???
@@pablovi77 Yes, it seems. Seems it went live today.
@@pablovi77 yes
Totally agree. My Mac Mini is connected via USB to my SMSL DAC which feeds my Hegel H190. Simple and satisfying solution but does require you to be part of the Apple ecosystem.
@@dayton5731 I would imagine most people with Apple music are already in the Apple ecosystem. For those people this is a big win at no additional cost. For people who aren't using Apple music they probably aren't switching anyways.
Excellent review, as always, John. Can I ask whether Airplay actually supports CD quality streams? I currently stream Apple Music to a B&W Zeppelin Wireless via Airplay and was wondering whether the benefits of CD quality would be available in such a set up. Many thanks!
Great video as always John. Do you have a similar video explaining the gotchas for Amazon Music, or could you record one?
To the point at 5:52 you could use iTunes Remote to control your Mac sitting in your shelf. Nice vid tho.
After many years tonight, I downloaded it again 🤘Just perfect 👍
I just tried this and it sort of works but i can't search for songs that are not in my library. I really want to switch to apple music and leave tidal + roon behind as it would be a lot cheaper. This was almost the answer, so close yet so far.
As people have said - Apple remote works really well and is a lovely app BUT and BIG BUT - only works for your library and you cannot search Apple Music when using Remote . I still use Remote but not as good as it could be .
@@mig8686 It's not perfect but search in the music app, add to your library, then switch to the remote and its there.
No - Apple remote only works with your Libraries - cannot use it randomly to select or play tracks on Apple Music streaming
I was just thinking about this recently after one of my hardcore Apple/iPhone/Sonos friends was like...wow, they are going to have Hi-Res now, that's what you like, right? And instead of pointing him to your video I thought about what Apple is likely doing. They are planting the seeds of the next iPhone that will have better "Dolby Atmos Hi-Res" audio chips and tech and they will make it so hi res comes out of your phone. They are running out of video/camera things to expand on, and in the latest WWDC they were pushing spatial audio and Atmos...I don't think their main play is music...most people care less about that, but having hi-res Atmos audio for movies is going to be a great selling point for them...hopefully we audio lovers will get a good hi-res out finally and can enjoy true hi-res audio from our iPhones.
Adding a vast CD quality library at no extra cost or additional config is a HUGE win for me. I found AAC quality to be good enough when I'm out & about in noisy environs, using my iPhone. CD quality Apple Music at home, through the Mac Mini in my main hi-fi rig is such an awesome thing! Apple support page says they will add lossless support coming for the Home Pod and Apple TV can already do CD quality audio, so that's another option for people who own either one.
It’s a long way to go but a great start for them. And I’m just thankful than they did this.
I wonder how many people can hear the higher quality audio without realising they need to switch it on in the settings first…🙄
I’ve connected my iPhone via usb dong’hell’ to my DAC and it works just fine. Sounds great.
I was mindblown. Sounded fantastic.
Adding a dongle at the tail end of headphones (particularly the Apple itty bitty one) is not really "hell". It's so tiny it looks like a connector. And it measures and sounds ok.
Next step: new gen bluetooth for broad band wireless. Another reason to buy tons of new, better, Beats and Pods. Apple users are used to that sort of thing. Churn rate is crazy.
The challenge is in reaching beyond the Apple ecosystem and user group.
Meenova make a Lightning to micro USB cable - I've been using one for years between my iPhone and Mojo.
Same here my headphones sounds so much better😃
Yes there are gotcha's all over.
For the maybe 5% of the population that can A) tell the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 and B) have the gear to bring that difference out this all matters (and let's be honest they probably do not use Apple Music to begin with.)
For the rest of the people out there (and the majority of Apple customers) it is all marketing and they don't know/understand the difference they just hear "get something which is better (look at the numbers they are higher!!!) and don't have to pay more."
I consider myself a "budding audiophile" I love music and have built what most people would consider a budget stereo (spent less on the entire system than "audiophiles" spend on a single speaker; to me it is fantastic. Vocals are lively, bass not heavy, highs are crisp and soundstage is MASSIVE.
Why should I spend more when my hearing is not the greatest to begin with. Why should I worry about the gotcha of not being able to stream 24/192 with Airplay?
I use Apple Music not because of the quality but because I listen to music from ALL OVER THE WORLD and Apples catalog is massive in that regard compared to everyone else (and I check everyone else every year or two.)
And now I will get someone that says I can't hear the difference because my gear is not "good enough"
*Michael Powell:* You may be pleasantly surprised to know that your estimate of 5% is probably ten times too large. The original decision to use 16 bits at 44.1 kHz for CDs was made precisely because more than this is useless. Audio gear that barely reaches the threshold of 'entry level' by the standards of audiophiles is essentially perfect. Some of the nicest stuff, both aesthetically and technically, is used vintage gear, and has the added advantage that it is mostly possible to repair, unlike modern electronics.
I agree. Apple Music is not perfect but it’s easy to use and they have a large, if not the largest, catalogue of music. And now we can have it all in lossless for no extra cost.
Such deep knowledge! You got a subscriber!! 😀✌🏻
Doesn’t the new MacOS do hi-res without having to manually switch the sample rate? Can anyone confirm?
At a later date, Apple plans to enable hi-res lossless streaming in Apple TV devices, which has HDMI output and thus can be hooked up to most hi-end sound systems with bitperfect sound.
They have it out now, just need to go into the audio setting and select lossless.
Unfortunately, it is capped at 24/48 because that’s the max the Apple TV 4K can do. It’s bizarre to me that they just released a brand new 2021 version of the Apple TV 4K and it’s also capped at 24/48.
I don’t understand why they didn’t make the newest 2021 model capable of 24/192 ?
I suspect no one working at Apple actually understands that you need bit perfect 24/192 capable output devices to actually use the new service they’re spending so much effort and money trying to market!!
@@stoneglad No, they are smart guys. And they are too smart that they think their majority of customer don't care about 48 or 192. And probably they are right.
Its not the Apple tv fault its the limitaton of hdmi
I’m sure you can use Apple remote app from your phone to control your I tunes library on your Mac ?
Yes but cannot search Apple Music . I still use remote and it is great but I wish you could search Apple Music on it
Hi John, thank you for another great video. I have two question for you if you’ll be so kind to answer. First question, is it possible to enjoy Apple Music in high-res on iPad Pro M1 with USB-C port? Second question, is it possible to enjoy high-res Apple Music on any Apple mobile device with lightning port with the USB-A adapter and AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt? Once again, many thanks.
You are just brilliant... love your videos.
Lets hope with the recourses of the gargantuas company that Apple is, they make it possible to stream cd quality over bluetooth, but in the mean time an iPad (with USB-C) would make a great streamer I think if you don't want a computer in your hifi rack.
I bought an old Airport Express and am running that to my Schiit DAC using Airplay. Not sure if I’m getting lossless but it sounds good to me.
All AEs support 16/44 or 16/48.
I use the same setup on one of my rigs (Airport Express to BiFrost DAC). Airport Express is capped at 16 bit / 44.1 kHz.
Not sure why he is worried about leaving the house and music stopping, but that hardly seems to be a downfall to Airplay in my environment. For my main system, I am going to use Airplay 2 and live with regular old lossless. John has discussed the limitations of hi res in the past, so surprised he didn't bring it up here. For my headphone setup, I will go with that extra dongle and get hi res. For on the go, I prefer wireless for convenience since I don't really do concentrated listening while walking the dogs or whatever anyway.
Your set up is certainly capable of lossless but it depends on the source (iPhone , Mac) , the settings and the track.
Hi, I am a happy Apple Music user, with a good pair of IEM (Thieaudio Monarch MKII) and a couple of decent DAC/AMPs (Hidizs S9 Pro, Fiio Q3).
I am very happy of my setup, but I am considering another possibility: a DAP capable to play lossless Apple Music (possibly including hi-res), with a good sound quality (possibly even better than my current dac/amps).
Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you
I have learned a lot in the time I have been watching the videos on this channel. Here's to more knowledge ahead :)
I have no problem using my iFi hip-dac conected to my iPhone or iPad,it sounds awesome!!
I have the same. I think Ifi have been quite clever sticking with the male USB port. It means a fairly simple chain for iPhone users requiring only 1 cable!
iPhone with Ifi Hip Dac is a great product for iPhones users wanting a simple high quality solution for Apple Music lossless.
@@clevertrevor27 Are you using the USB 3.0 camera connector with the additional Lightning port?
Will the Hip Dac work with a IPad Pro with USB-C connection? ,
I use a ton of Apple products and they *MOSTLY* get it right, but the flexibility of Apple Music is not one of those situations.
Still my favorite I’ve yet to find a song they can’t find in the library
@@iCanBuyMyself420 please search: Transatlantic Sessions
Transatlantic Sessions Dan Tyminksi The Boy Who Wouldn’t Hoe Corn. Please confirm if it’s available and on mp3 lossless or high res.
The flexibility of Apple in general is not one of those situations.
@@aceofspades6667 love transatlantic sessions . They are in Lossless on Apple Music which means up to 24/48 .
Very interesting channel. I have a Mac Book Pro that does 24/192 out through SPDIF (possible through headphone jack up to 2015 model). Does this mean I get the Apple hi res into my receiver/dac? Or is it perhaps downsampled first?
Brilliant video! LIke the Gotcha moments :) You need to do more of these
So, I could get lossless audio out of my iPhone. But I don’t want the dongle hell, of having a couple of adapters to do it for me. Princess and the pea I think
Love all the gotchas. And this summed up all my views and concerns over the state of things lossless with Apple right now. As someone who likes CD quality audio and “feels” like I can hear a difference to that source even over BT (which I know shouldn’t technically be the case, but my ears feel a difference - perhaps placebo) - I have still cancelled my Qobuz renewal and am now happy to wait and see how Apple work on this. My gut is they have something up their sleeve to hardware process files sent over BT inside their AirPods Pro and Max and basically eco system lock you into that gear to get lossless audio. Perhaps with a small lag in tap and play due to the files buffering to be able to do this magic. Crystal ball gazing this is. But I’m happy to have the service as it gives me hope for a world where Apple does think about lossless over their gear.
I use Mac Mini -> Topping E30 -> Active Speakers. That should work right?
My set up is a iPad mini via its port to a arcam ir dac then to a rega brio amp
Gives my stereo a mini screen
I can then do cd quality or not 🧐
I think it's really cool that Apple Music now does CD quality and High-Res as well as Dolby Atmos. For me as an Apple sheep it's great, I use an Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt with my iPhone. I do wonder how Tidal and Qobuz will respond but then again I can't see many people jumping ship because of the above gotchas and the fact it is a pain in the arse, especially if you've got loads of playlists.
Apple should have thought about the people that would actually use this cause most people wouldn't even know that it cd Quality
Great comments, keep the good work going! What about Android DAPs, like Hiby R5 or the Sony NW-A105? Do they play bit-perfect from Apple music through the headphone jack?
Thanks for the video. I’ve been waiting for it. I personally feel that CD quality over Airplay is good enough. Airplay has its shortcomings for sure. But after considering all of the pros and cons, I think Apple Music over Airplay to my Sonos Port will work for me.
Apple has absolutely painted themselves into a corner for the moment, but given their resources, they're in this for the long haul and they're just too big to be ignored for long by the other players. My concern is that Qobuz and Tidal and the others can only suffer so much loss of their subscriber base before breaking. I use an iPhone as a DAP and I agree completely with the points you've made. Listening to wired headphones on Apple gear is....a joke. It takes something like a Mojo/Poly(which via mconnect can also stream in full hi res off an iPhone) to make Apple gear useful. I have to wonder why they've chosen to do this at all since the other players in streaming don't seem like any kind of real threat to their marketshare.
As frustrating as all of these "gotchas" may be, I can't stop laughing at the crow sound played with each of them!
Lol it’s a guy not a crow
I was thinking to get the v-moda speakeasy-lightning-cable to clean-up the dongle mess. It let's me use my several different wired headphones too. Any thoughts?
Great information!! Wondering if any solutions have come about in the last year since this video was posted? Thank you
I'm resigned to dongle hell; it's the price to be paid for the Apple Ecosystem and using quality headphones or IEM's be it through a dongle DAC or my Chord Mojo.
Agreed, though I have zero issues with dongles. Give me all the dongles (I just use one. then attach my Dragonfly Cobalt, then plug in my Sony xm3s, and voila). I do my serious listening at home, anything on the go doesn’t require a dongle as I just want to “hear” the music.
Meenova make a Lightning to micro USB cable - I've been using one for years between my iPhone and Mojo. They aren't massively expensive and gets rid of the multiple adaptor nightmare and are nicely made. I don't have an association with the company but I'm really surprised that so few people know of them.
I would imagine the percentage of humans on the planet that care at what bitrate their music is played is much smaller than the percentage of humans on the planet that think Apple music in even better now because it is "higher quality". Apple is in the business of making money, not streaming lossless music. If they increase their market share by adding this hi-res audio, they have done their job.
Agreed
I have tested a couple of tracks I know very well and could hear a significant difference once lossless was rolled out.
It sounds great
Sorry , Apple Music is clearly better now as they have lossless as standard for low monthly price. What is not to like about it . You have a company giving subscribers a better product for same price . You say Apple is in the business of making money . Does this mean that Amazon ; Spotify and Tidal are in the business to lose money ? . Apple , overnight has changed the streaming industry . This will be benefit for you as you don’t use Apple Music , and benefit when Tidal and co are forced to reduce prices. It is very interesting times in market
I think the percentage of humans who could tell what bitrate their music is played in a blind test is even smaller than the percentage who care.
Another great video, thank you.
I have an Audeze Mobius and I can connect it directly to iPad pro using a usb-c to-usb-c cable. The result is a bit unpredictable because the headphone volume appears to change but it works. Not sure if it’ll work with a lightning to usb-c cable on iPhone as well. Have you looked at this setup and are there any ‘gotcha’s” as well?
Are you forgetting about using the iPad that stays in the listening room all the time. I am using the iPad air played over to a 3rd gen Apple TV box with its optical output going into my amp which has a great onboard DAC. Sure I can only achieve lossless CD quality but there are only a handful of people that will hear the difference between lossless and high res, heck I can’t even hear the difference between Apple lossy and lossless. I think most purists want bitrate perfect simply so they know they have bitrate perfect, not because of an audio quality difference. I also feel better now knowing I have lossless even though I can hear no difference.
I do hope Apple give us a streamer that can be hard wired as you have suggested but I very much doubt they will. For now I am perfectly happy with what I have. Fact is it’s the album mastering that makes almost all the difference, not really the file type. That’s just my opinion anyway.
As Speculations go: iPhone 13 in September will have a new DAC and probably a new port.
Aren’t they going with no port at all?
@@richardsinger01 That's why I heard
For the record, AM streams to Amazon Echo devices. The Studio one has optical out. Maybe it will support lossless?
Thanks for the info👍🏽
Could use an Mac Mini in the rack. Lots of people have done that. Maybe get an iPod Touch.
Watching this video on an Apple TV. I'm pretty sure that Apple have stated that Apple TV will get lossless - so, over HDMI straight into receiver. Hopefully this is a good route.
Edit: I've just enabled this in TVOS 14.6 in the Apps->Music->Audio quality->Lossless. Now getting 48kHz. You can probably get the first 4K edition of the Apple TV at quite a good price on eBay.
Edit 2: When playing a track, a lossless icon appears. Clicking this shows the original source stream details. A 44.1kHz track appears as 48kHz one the receiver, so it's upsampling.
Perhaps a Mac mini (with DAC) could be another route.. but expensive.
Exactly my thoughts - apple tv and hdmi. Not ideal, but it’s way. I hope apple will open to more streaming devices in the future.
Any iPad would also be a perfect Apple Music lossless front end for your listening room. It’s inexpensive, silent, and great for the album art. Just connect any DAC/amp using the Apple USB “camera kit” adapter and you are all set. I have tested this with a DAC that shows bitrate on its screen and I get full 192 on tracks that support it. You could even use a $200 iPod touch.
I don't know if it's me, but the apple TV airplayed to my soundbar sounds better than airplay to the soundbar from my iphone. They both sound great though! In fact it definitely sounding fantastic. I dare not play it through my main hifi.....lol! My Soundbar sounds serious......!
Does your receiver ever show its getting 44.1? I think original redbook is 44.1, so if an audio cd is being played back and its showing 48kHz than something along the chain is doing some upsampling.
I have been waiting (impatiently) for this video since this was first announced
I really like your vids and content on your channel. Only one question. A high res player using Android would work or am I wrong?
You can just use the Apple headphone dongle and it’s quite a decent DAC! It’s the same as Dragonfly black at 24bit 48khz.
Yep. It is. And it’s $9. And small and light and doesn’t need external power. You’ll only get CD quality but that’s where I move from genuine improvement in perceived quality into placebo…
Isn't all of these Gotcha's (love the sound effect) leading back to each company ensuring your are in bed with them only?
= No Universal Standard
No. It actually drives paying customers away. To either Tidal, Deezer or Qobuz. The problem for me is that according to several tests Apple isn't even streaming lossless via Airplay 2 to an AVR for example. They recode the stream in the App and send over AAC 256 to Airplay 2 devices. Also for Homepods (until iOS 15 Beta 3 i think). It actually looks like they are trying their best to give you a worse product after advertising a highend product.
Great video and thought provoking with a side dash of humour. I have my way of dealing with the shortcomings. I learnt about hi def audio and external DACs from your videos. I was persuaded to use an old iPad and to buy a Topping E30external DAC which I hook with a Apple lightning to usb photo cable, to my ancient Arcam amp. Great sound and auto switching. Excellent iPad amp and switching up to 192. I am quite content with cd quality or lossy streams when out and about. I think Apple Music is an absolute bargain now that the lossless and hi def streams have been added! I also had Amazon music hd before. The DAC adds quality to any kind of stream! Thank you! Keep up the great work!
It's quite amusing that people still still put effort into Apple products. It's as though they keep adding/removing "features" that customers criticize, i.e. M1 and it's issues, Apple Music, etc, but are so stuck on them as a company not to see that they are not as whole striving to get better. I understand the aspects of preference for a UI and the misconceptions that people continue to believe when it comes to other options. It's just makes me wonder what it will take for people to change their minds. Thank John! I love your channel and ALL the content you share. I really appreciate your opinion and openness to look at all different aspects to a subject. Also, you have amazing taste for music. So, thank you for sharing.
I'm stuck on iTunes as it is my main database of music. But I use Spotify for streaming. I loved the original MOG streaming service, then Beats bought them out for peanuts, screwed up the user interface, then sold it to Apple for a BILLION dollars, and Apple mostly kept the lousy interface...I'll stick with Spotify at least for now.