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The Illegality Of Paid Minecraft Mods.
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
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=Summary=-
Modded Minecraft is known for its Open Source Nature. Mods like Create, Alex's Caves and so many more Minecraft Mods are build on it beeing free. But recently fellow creators have been paywalling mods. But is this actually legal? And what does Mojang have to say about this?
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[IMPORTANT]
Jetstar isnt the only one doing this and this video isnt targeted towards him.
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I hope you pitch that solution to Modrinth. Its a good idea
@@Cygnus_MC yeah. Theres also the Orespawn/Danger Zone guy, but I don’t know what’s worse. Making part of the community hate the game for a shitty mod or making a shitty game based off a paywalled mod while trying to sue a child
@@Thunderbolt18367 the latter, the latter is so much worse
@@Cygnus_MC
Oh yeah…..now that I really think about it….The Orespawn guy is just much worse. At least the most Jetstar did was put a bad taste in people’s mouths when it comes to Minecraft. The Orespawn man is just pathetic
@@Thunderbolt18367 to be fair to jet, he did reach out to me about the issue. And he's working to to the mod better
My preferred way would be
1. Provide mod for free
2. Open a patreon or kofi for those who want to provide a "tip" for the mod
3. Different tiers would allow buyers to access early builds of the new mod and potentially add ideas into consideration
Now this is perfect imo, and some people do this as well!
i think this is what eightsidesquare does, he makes his mods early access first before making it public; the best kind of compensation
I actually wanted the guy that made physics mod do this
I like being able to support modders, so 'tipping' them is always nice ^^
agreed, patreon for newer features faster is a great one. Though emergency patches could probably be an exception. An emergency is an emergency lol.
technically most of minecraft players are kids with no money so i feel like using ads on sites IS a much better solution
Kids spend an absolute ton on microtransactions
How did they get the game in the first place ?
Probably the same way they will afford the microtransactions
@@Alex-ck5gf they stealed moms credit card
@@Alex-ck5gf you know, most of kids never pay for anything, they pi-khm-ra-khm-te it.
@@diablense So then they can continue to do that, let adults pay :)
So whats the issue then... kids can obtain it free in that way and adults can pay ?
@@Dehhoy can do the same to support developers
This does not only happen to Mods, but also to texturepacks and maps which is very lame in my opinion
Texturepacks are not that hard to make, I mean, it takes time to do it, but you don't need to learn much to do it.
Paid mods is a slippery slope that I don't think people understand.
When you think of paid mods, you think of the massive sprawling modpacks with custom maps and custom crafting and custom blah blah blah. 15 bucks for all that? Sounds great!
But what about when people begin selling their mods individually? JEI for 2 bucks. Complimentary shades for a buck 50. Farmers delight? Another t bucks. Create? Well, that'd really hard to make, may as well sell it for 10!
We'll be looking at modpacks costing the same amount as the base game, all because modders are beginning to treat Minecraft as a way to make money rather than a fun Gane they want to expand on, which is ironically exactly what the 2023 EULA aimed to fix
Btw, screw Rock Solid to the highest extent. He's a complete grifter who outright lies about things to get engagement on Twitter then reigns ignorance when you calm him out.
I don't think it would be a slippery slope in that way. Paid mods already exist, and this hasn't happened. The reason is that the development environment is very open, and there are thousands of passionate people who just want to make things.
Of the four example mods you gave, three have the MIT License in their current version and Complimentary Shaders has permissive redistribution. If any of those went behind a paywall there would be dozens of copyright free forks the next day.
I generally don't like paid mods, but that is for different reasons. If mod developers want to charge, they need to be willing to provide a higher degree of technical support, quality assurance, and long term updates. That isn't generally how mods are handled right now, and so I do not think it makes sense to charge for them.
then people would get mad at those developers charging for such little content and not buy it and the mod simply wouldnt make money, or someone would just start distributing it anyway and people would use it and the mod wouldnt make money, just because a mods put up for money doesnt mean anyone will buy it
If developers work hard on those tools I don’t see why they can’t be paid.
$2 for JEI with consistent support is definitely worth it.
@@Alex-ck5gf Until youre spending 40 bucks on a modpack
Jetstarfish is a culprit of this. He straight made a shitty video about Minecraft’s progression issues and makes some extremely bullshit points just to sell his mod that basically has 5 or so features.
This video is literally targeting JetStarfish lmao
@@johferson09
Damn.
@@johferson09 its not, i dont target anyone. But he was one of the people that got me thinking
@@Cygnus_MC kinda thought it was lol. Don't really think there was any other recent discussion related to this subject then with Jet
This behaviour has existed LONG before Jetstarfish. Remember what happened to Orespawn and why it is now obsolete and universally hated?
Mojang: No, you can't monetize your mods !
Also Mojang: Haha, marketplace go brrr !
Also Mojang: monetizing your mods is fine, selling them is not
technically add on devs get some share of it too and Mojang doesn't wanna get in trouble protecting someone selling a mod
They probably only care about it on Java and not the Marketplace because on Bedrock you have to buy Minecoins to get mods which gets Mojang money
@@YourNormalProgram greedy af, mojang is supported by microsoft themselves
@@that_guy1211bro they’re a business of course they’re gonna want to make more money
I was shocked when I saw a mod dev do this. As someone currently trying to get a fresh grad job, having a mod will be great for my resume. If I move on in life and don't maintain a mod, I'd open a Patreon so ppl can donate me and "motivate" me to maintain it again. But, I prefer putting my stuff open source so anyone can take over my work. I do hope many more devs will fork some of the most used mods in not ported versions.
as a mod developer I absolutely hate seeing paywalled mods, especially if the mod wasn't coded by the person selling it (I'm looking at you JetStarfish). Pay modders to work for you if they're cool with that but never charge for it to be played because at the end of the day Minecraft isn't your product. I think this should be a general rule for all of game modding. I also keep seeing people go "well Mojang has the marketplace, why is this wrong?" the difference is that the marketplace is official and legal
So, if a person approached you and offered 1k to make a personal mod with the stipulation that you couldn't post it, you wouldn't do it?
If you accept, you're paywalling the mod.
@@dragonproductions236 charging for the work one time isn’t the same as charging for the product unless it’s this one specific case but I’d excuse it because obviously the intent of the buyer is to get a custom mod that only they can have instead of sharing for free. there’s no way around that unless I caved into doing free work somehow. if you mean that I couldn’t post my mod but they (a youtuber, or something) could, then no because I don’t like big names overshadowing developers
your feelings are irrational
@@Fire_Axus as far as im concerned they’re justified
Yeah I feel the same, I have a mod that i've worked on since 2020 and never thinked of paywalling it at all, and hate to see big creators like JetStarfish and SystemZee having a team that makes them a mod and then trying to sell it to "Earn back the money spent"
The only bad part for me is that most of the paid mods are also closed source, so you cannot really know what you are dealing with and no option for another developer to implement or fork the project for example to make modpacks
can still do pay what you want with open source. just dont support people who build it themselves or use builds from other people
If we look at current paid mod services, like the minecraft marketplace or the premum mods in ark survival ascended, we can see how monetisation kills creativity and exspacally small mods are getting killed of.
Yea no, you’re just wrong buddy
@@emilydavidson8844 you didnt bring any arguments just said no and you think that gives you any ground?
@@PraiseTheBoi how does monetization kill off creativity
Monetization doesn't kill off creativity, it's predatory marketing that kills it off. For the marketplace, to make money, they need to dangle flashy features in front of you to make you want to buy it, rather than make a genuine good mod.
@@emilydavidson8844 if the only aim is to get money, they will jsut develolp as quickly as possible the current most popular thing and sell it, that can then turn into a problem for visibility on the genuinely good mods.
I love the open nature of java modding, but I also can't stand the hypocrisy of mojang saying we can't monetize our java mods only to charge absurd prices on the bedrock marketplace
marketplace sucks but it is their game and they gotta make consistent money somehow i guess. worse tho is them killing bedrock modding and forcing ppl onto just marketplace
Or for Minecraft.
I genuinely feel like the reason they aren't letting a Java Marketplace exist is because they'd get massive community backlash.
My stance is: shouldn't cost anything, but donations should be allowed. Also official collaborations with mod and fan game devs should be more common in the gaming space in general, the Fazbear Fan Initiative is a good example (even if as a whole it's gone not so great). Officially making mods or fan games purchasable is really good, because it provides a legal way to sell that stuff, both the dev and game creator(s)/company get paid, and everyone is happy. The Bedrock Marketplace would be perfect, if there was primary high quality stuff on there, but it feels like there isn't as much quality assurance as would be perfect for it, and it's only on Bedrock, so it kinda doesn't work for a significant chunk of the community.
But that's my stance on it. Also technically speaking breaking the EULA isn't a crime, can't land you in jail or anything, but Mojang can sue you over it. So READ IT IF YOU DO ANYTHING IN RELATION TO IT
the problem is that you can make money off of it, so why put in more effort? Especially since most minecraft players are kids. The only reason java skews older is because it takes some effort to set up modding - it's *vastly* easier than it used to be, but you still have to install some programs and troubleshoot some stuff, and kids don't do that (whether it be due to ignorance or something else).
just look at the marketplace on badrock. It's all the same copy/pasted bullshit with little to no value at all - even on FTB's page.
but kids buy that shit all the time since it's there and they have no standards.
i don't want java to be infected by the same plague of garbage (especially since mod devs drop support for old versions *way* faster now) because it would ruin the modding scene entirely.
QA could help, but it takes time & money so everyone automates it (i think that's one reason so much bullshit gets onto the badrock marketplace - even stolen texture packs & shit).
mods should allays be free to download as modding wouldn't be possible without the many volunteers that first developed platforms like fabric and forge.
However, mods can (and in my opinion, should) have donation links and maybe even a paywall for early access versions of mods.
I was actually thinking about that "pay what you want" model when downloading a model, i think its the best model for free projects.
And they have on patreon
@@limesime7156 honestly, who wouldnt
I disagree as a developer. When you develop something, you have the option to put a license on it. One of those licenses is the GPL-v3, which can force you to make every mod you write using the Fabric API, or Yarn bindings, etc, completely free and open-source. The Fabric developers intentionally put the Apache License 2.0 (a “do what you want, make money off of it even, just add this copyright notice when redistributing and you’re good” type of license) probably because they are in support of developers being able to monetize their work.
@@d-o-n-u-t honestly being a developer doesnt matter that much in this context, its just another hobby/job, everyone knows what is like to work and be rewarded, regarthless of being a dev or not.
Also, i did not say fabric devs didnt allow monetization.
My point is that modding woulnt be possible without the people who made the mod loaders.
My point is that modding isnt the same as making a game from scratch, no matter how good your mod is, it wouldnt be possible without the devs making the game and devs making the loaders and APIs and because of that it shouldnt be put behind a paywall.
I also think donations should be much more incentivised towards devs
@@bacalhau_seco There are lots of paid products and services made out of free and open source tools/services/apis, not only in minecraft or videogames but also software in general. Making something using free stuff doesn't mean the product should also be free.
Problem for me with pay-walling mods is that it would turn into an incentive for a lot of people. Of course mod devs deserve compensation, and pay what you want or non-intrusive ads would be good solution in my mind. It's sad to hear that some mod devs went homeless, and they deserve all the support they can get.
@@h3ck774
"Work your life away or you sre a uselsss indicidual".
Drop the corperate shilling, boomer.
@@h3ck774 Exactly. Putting your priorities into trying to convert a hobby into a business, instead of making sure you have a stable income as soon as possible, is genuinely stupid.
In the Sims community, modders are allowed to monetized their work using esrly access, like you have it on patreon behind a paywall for a few months, but then you have to release for free.
I think if EA of all people are okay with that model, it can work in Minecraft. (It kinda feels like watching a movie on theaters vs waiting for it to stream)
The Marketplace could've been a good idea if the quality control and the reviewing features weren't bad.
Oh there is a mod that was free for a long time which was Jurassiccraft but in may 2020 the owner made every update since then paid and the mod went down in quality to. A lot of people in dinosaurs mc modding community calls the mod a scam now a days
What even happened to Jurassic Craft? Back then it had the best animations, and the best models
I've taken a peek at current versions and man, the new dinosaurs look terrible, and the animation quality has gone down to the point of being barely animated, how did this happen
A pay what you want system in my opinion is a good idea. If I had the ability to (financially) I would love to be able to throw my favorite mod developers some compensation. Great video!
Why not just have all the mods be free, but allow donations for the developer to be able to continue developing the mod?
Like, it wouldn't go against EULA, since the mod is free for anyone to take. But considering it's time, and resource consuming, a developer can ask for donations to speedup or even continue refining the mod.
Those who don't have money, aren't forced to pay to get the full mod. They can just download and enjoy it. But those who also feel sympathetic towards the effort of the mod creator, could donate to help them out in their development.
Because donations don't work. Sure it's there, but everybody wants everything for free.
@@futuremapper_ Then the mod developer can just stop producing the mod. It's that simple. Community isn't obligated to care for the creator, nor creator care for the community.
I don't think you should go into mod-making with the intention to make money. Its a nice bonus, but not a primary goal.
@@miimiiandco few people do it just to make money. Lots of people want to do it for the community but they also want to be paid fairly if they really want to be able to dedicate time to making mods.
@@futuremapper_ This is my personal opinion, but I'm pretty sure that if the people behind mods want money, they should just pick up a side job.
as a bedrock player i hate that java gets all the coop mods while bedrock gets micro transactions shoved down their throat
and it sucks more that not only is java only on pc, but its also a little expensive
it sucks
pojav launcher is a thing for mobile at least, but mod support isn't quite 100%
Instead of complaining, open the game and make it.
Mods should NEVER be paid.
unless its a optional donation to support the devs to who have spare money laying around
Bedrock marketplace go brr
@@raisin896 You are saying this cuz you are broke💀
@@wowutisforevermarketplace is optional, you don't need to use marketplace to get mods on bedrock
MOD DEVs are the ones who created the mods, THEY get to decide what to do with it. And ALSO, bedrock edition REQUIRES you to pay for mods. Idiot.
@@Xinert do you know what it can lead to if paid mods will become legal? Simple mods like new chests for 10 bucks, jei for 20, shit, even mods like create will go for the same price as game itself or even higher. Now lets see how your "non-broke" pocket will vanish into oblivion in this reality
Paywalling for *fully complete* mods I disagree with, but for mods that aren’t ready for public use and are acting as a “sneak peek” or “early development access” build, I can get behind that
The main issue is, regardless of what the discussion turns into, nothing changes that at some point mods WERE free. I think people wouldnt have as much of a problem of if when mods first flourished, Mojang integrated a paid system and embraced the community, especially if they used old youtubers like yogscast etc in branding with certain mods.
Loved the video and I agree with most of your points but as a developer myself I'd honestly still be in favor of being able to sell mods/datapacks! A donation or pay-what-you-want model sounds amazing in theory, but the reality is: People generally only pay if they have to!
To explain my opinion I'd like to shine a little light on this topic from the side of a developer instead of a consumer.
I've been releasing free maps & datapacks for over 10 years now and all my projects combined have ~10 Million downloads. My projects are quite popular on other Minecraft channels too and a few years ago I counted the combined views other channels made with my datapacks. It was over 3.5 Billion views. So I've provided the community with YEARS of free entertainment, other UA-camrs have made well over $10M directly using my work, while I constantly struggle to make ends meet because I've committed the crime of developing for Java instead of Bedrock. You would think that with these numbers and around 400k subscribers it'd be easy to live off of donations but I have not once received over 100$/month on my patreon, despite regularly plugging it. Jetstarfish sold his mod and immediately reached $1.300/month within a few weeks. So as annoying as a paywall is, it jjust works.
I continue to release my datapacks for free, but I honestly wish I could sell them! Not out of greed, but if I don't make enough money to pay the bills I simpply have to find another job and consequently stop making the content that the community has enjoyed for a decade without having to pay a single dollar!
Developers on Bedrock are allowed to make a living off their work, so why shouldn't Java Developers be allowed to do the same?
You raise some very good point my friend and its amazing to see this video has reached the people i wanted it to!
I am planning to dive deeper in the bedrock vs java selling mods issue as i do think its important that people who make amazing mods and want to be compensated for them, actually get to be compensated.
@@Cygnus_MC Really looking forward to see it! 😊
Hope to see you there!
the minecraft eula is not legally binding. it is not illegal to break the eula (provided you aren't breaking other laws while breaking the eula). if you make a paid mod, mojang can take away your minecraft account, but it is a lie to say that is illegal.
it depends. if you use any Mojang owned resource to make it, it could be illegal, because you do something without the authorization to do so
This is so common, and done by popular and well respected people, it actually pisses me off
Tldr: Paywalling bad, donations good
You should not ever put a mod behind a paywall as it kills the whole idea of modding. It always been a thing that people do from passion and want to share their takes and ideas on the original games instead making it a living on it as a first thing. Sure it is great that nowadays some people can earn a livable wage from modding certain games, Minecraft being a prime example, through ad revenue and donations, but just because of that, it doesnt mean people are obliged to pay for your time spent cuz you decided to base your entire financial well being on something so fluent and unstable as modding. Another thing is that Minecraft made whole companies be created that solely focus on making mods or hosting servers for it, but again, their costs and business decisions are not responsibility of the players. If I find your mod cool and I want to help you via donating I will, but if you forcing me to with some half assed arguments like oooo I spent so much time on it therefore I demand $$$, then f*ck off Ill be first to pirate it or skip the entry all together instead funding career of someone like that.
Willing to bet u have ur whole life paid for and have no expenses. "ooo i spent so much time on it" isn't a have-assed argument, it's a valid concern. If you spend hours making a product (or anything valuable) you have the right (morally) to expect compensation for sharing it. Time is money in this world man
Also you should realize that if they don't require payment to share the content then unfortunately the majority of people will NOT donate. Not everyone will donate like you say you will. That's why these paywalls happen.
@@MatthewLack If you base your income as an adult on literal minecraft mod then you should not be considered an adult in the first place. Of course it is a concern to make a living and it would be wonderful if we all could do what we love and be paid for exactly that, but just because you spent time and effort on making a mod it doesnt mean anyone owes you anything. It is not a valid career and should not be treated as such. A side hussle max, nothing more.
@@MatthewLack Of course most will not donate. Noone with the right mind would make such assumption. But if you make an actually good mod, and not reiteration of already overused formula like most people do(and if you do such mods then why even bother lol), which will result to wide recognition, which would be 100k-1mln downloads in first couple months, then you can easily get couple hundred dollars extra from ad revenue + donations if you manage your community correctly. Paywalling a mod simply kills any interest it could generate for the wider audience therefore it doesnt even generate you more money than free+donations system in the long run. If you want to treat it as actual business even though you should not, then you gotta do some more effort than just code a mod and expect a paymanet. Marketing, researching what would potentially pop off and what is a waste of time and resources, right PR and everything else around a product also matters when you treat it solely with focus on earning $$$ on it. People would want to code whatever they want and be paid huge money without making anything special. Would be great world but it doesnt work like that.
@@strgnv First of all, anything is a valid career if you can make it one. However that's not my point. I don't care if people think making mods for a game is a career path or not, my problem is with you feeling so entitled to other people's work for free despite the possibility they might want something in return.
paid mods are a ridiculous concept to me because minecraft mods are not used in a vacuum. that's why orespawn lost its audience, after all. paid mods can absolutely result in $500 modpacks, if standardized. mojang itself needs to support the developers who make minecraft fun or accessible for a much wider audience, it's contributing directly to their revenue after all.
paying for mods and resource packs is a relatively recent and cancerous growth upon the game, turning java into bedrock isnt particularly appealing, so i totally support piracy of them. want money? start a patreon or get a job
6:12 that's because the "paid" license can be easily obtained for free from Moulberry if you ask him in Discord or somewhere else. So actually this is just a recommendation to buy the commercial licence.
i have nothing to say that hasntalready been said, so... donation buttons are fine, paywalls are not!
paid mods should not exist for anything.
the entire point of modding is that people do it for the love of the game/fun of it, and the last time people tried paid mods it did not work at all and got quickly reversed. Monetization also stifles creativity since people just copy/paste the same trends to make a quick buck (hell, look at FTB's badrock marketplace account vs. the stuff they make on java).
i think part of the unspoken agreement between modders and players is that it's a hobby or side project, and as such can be abandoned at any time. Mod devs should open-source it or whatever if they do abandon it, but at the same time we can't expect them to keep going forever.
i got into the game through mods (wouldn't play it at all without them), and if everything was paywalled i'd have never gotten into minecraft and made my modpacks. My packs are still pretty niche, but i take a while to make them just because i like doing it. Updates are pretty slow due to that, but since they're niche i haven't had anyone asking for updates or ports or whatever the hell.
but i've made like $30 off of the CF ads over the near-decade i've made modpacks. It's obviously not that much, but it's still pretty cool that i got some free pocket change off of something i made for the hell of it.
if devs wanna set up a patreon or ko-fi or whatever that's fine (hell, i have one for my modpacks lol) - but charging for mods goes against the entire point of modding. If you wanna make a career out of your ability to code, just become a game dev or get a programming job.
The situation with 2b2t is kinda weird. Running servers costs money (and not just "my time is money"; actual infrastructure money), and a priority queue for members is as tame as it gets, because the server capacity is limited by those same infra costs and the fact that only "corpo" servers like Hypixel can afford custom server software that helps them scale beyond the terribly optimized vanilla server. According to the EULA, however, Hypixel's actually gameplay altering microtransactions seem to be fine because they fall in a grey area, even though they are predatory for children, even moreso than a donation button for a mod. Also, selling cosmetics is fine: Essentials is in the clear, as much as everyone hates microtx, and truth is Essentials also has infra costs (they use TURN servers, so they do not have to execute a dedicated server but every packet is still tunneled through their proxies), but then OptiFine and old school Mekanism are not, since the cosmetics they offer(ed) are capes, which are an exception to the clause. There is also this thing where you cannot charge different regional prices, even though forbidding such a thing is against the same spirit of the rule.
So, I get why people dislike microtx, but Minecraft mod donations are kind of a meme in the modding community because no one ever donates. It kinda sucks for all parties involved.
In my eyes as someone who makes Add-Ons for Bedrock edition, it's not needed to pay for our work. Yes, we want to earn some money for the work we put in, but for most hobbyists, as we call them, the goal is just money, and if they don't earn what they expected, they simply abandon their projects, and I can understand a part of that. I have a pretty large and awesome community, and I get asked so many times if they can support me with money or if there is a version of my work that's paid, and I respond with "no" because for me, personally, I don't need their money to keep doing what I love. I've hard some arguments about this but it's mainly that I want to make something "good" that's free, and that I won't be controlled by money. There are a selected amount of people who disagree with me, and I get that.
We have the Marketplace, but it's only for partners, which at this time are companies and studios. We as hobbyists upload our projects to MCPEDL, which is owned by CurseForge, so we use CFs reward program to generate revenue. It's great for creators that're big, but not for the ones who's starting out and it kinda demotivates them. MCPEDL had a wave of creators using ad sites like Linkvertise and Boostellar, but people moved away from them since the reward program with MCPEDL x CurseForge. It's always nice to have a Ko-Fi and let your fans know that they can support you that way, instead of locking a good mod behind money, because every mod developer has a fanbase that wants to support them and help out, and that's awesome!
So cool to have someone from the bedrock community here with actual experience! Thanks for your comment!
@@Cygnus_MC Thank you! ^^ Bedrock community is also really cool, but we just can't do as much as mods can because Bedrock has its own Add-On engine (I think it's that). I've seen it all the time where people get the idea that Add-Ons, skins, maps, etc. are paid on Bedrock but we do have third party sites where stuff is free. Marketplace won't stop me as a hobbyist to continue to enjoy my bobby because I love what I make for Bedrock edition as well as my player base. I am all for my players, and I do or add what they think is best, like tweaking something to make it balanced or adding a QoL feature. I don't want to make a thing that no one will enjoy, so I engage with my community a lot to take in their feedback, because for me, it's all about them, and not me or what I want the project to be (adding stuff everyone will dislike), and overall, it made me stand out and people love me. It's always nice to give something back to the people that enjoy your creations.
@@XxPoggyisLitxXI didn’t know curseforge owned mcpedl
@@C0Durp Yep! ^^ It's more so Overworlf which owns both CF and MCPEDL, but it's mostly seen as "CF owns MCPEDL" :P
You should make a video about the current Replay Mod situation, where Replay Mod hasn't updated to 1.21 except for betas, but you need to pay for access to these betas and a lot of people are stuck on 1.20 because there isn't a viable alternative and they reasonably don't want to pay.
This is how Replay Mod has always been, it takes forever to get out of beta
@@BryanLu0 good to know. It just hurts especially hard for 1.21 I guess
In my opinion, I think it wouldn't hurt to support the creator of the mod we enjoy
It's fine for them to put a donation link as a button in the game.
But putting mods behind a paywall is probably something I'm against and probably everyone else too
There's also the case of mods who put beta's as a reward for supporters
A big example of this are the abnormal mods which are first in beta for patreons but do release later for the public
I think this is fine way as well it doesn't leave it up as much on whether people being kind or not which can be a gamble as a developer but it also isn't having as much behind a paywall considering what is being paywalled is the beta, which is worse version of the final result (needs bug fixing and so on) and eventually everyone will be able to download the mod with 0 problem once it finally releases
Paying for mods is just another form of microtransactions A.K.A one of the most cancerous things in modern gaming.
hell no we shouldn't pay for mods. encourage people to support the mod creator? sure. gotta support the devs. but putting up a mod behind a paywall? hell naw.
Exactly what I’m saying
@@BootlegGremlin You are just saying this cuz you are broke💀
@Xinert even if you aren't broken why do you need to pay for something that you can only use on one game, and why should you be inconvenienced with something like that when you just want to use a mod that fits that category. It's like some of the mods for skyblock when I played, you can find an alternative for pretty much every paid mod (cheat or not), but if you wanted to try that mod for some aspect of it even before purchasing it you just can't. I think patrion and pro versions make sense, but why should you have to pay even 5 dollars for a single addition to an already paid game. [bedrock intensifies]
@@SuperDominicS I dont see your point "why do you need to pay for something you can only use on one game". By this logic why are you buying the game in the first place💀 The only reason we buy a game is for fun. And this could be applied to mods: more fps = more fun, more content = more fun. If it werent for mods nobody would enjoy Minecraft and thats why we need to respect mod creators, they are reason we still play java, not mojang. Like bedrock is more stable than java unmodded. At this point we take mods for granted, it shoudnt be this way.
Edit: I also forgot many of the alternatives, SURPRISE has malware, spyware, RAT. Also I know its pretty rare but some of the alternatives are made by youtubers who dont need the money, or by people who just want to be the hero "THAT MADE A PAID MOD INTO A FREE MOD" just for clout.
"Support the dev unless the dev asks you to support them to access the mod then they're a piece of shit"
If Modrinth adds a popup screen that the mod developer can turn on, every time someone downloads the mod, they will be asked to donate to the mod developer. That would be a good middle ground between paywalls and just making it freely available.
Like the "pay your own price" I’ve seen on several websites before, that would be great
you and i know very well that nobody is going to donate without any benefit for themselves because there is an expectation that mods should be free because they've always been free. mods shouldn't have a paywall but pretending like asking for a donation works is delusional
@@fahimhussain1918itd ask after it downloaded. Also if you think about it people will donate if the mod is quality. It remains optional. Its like tipping a waitress or waitor for good service. People who apreciate the mod will donate because its supporting the development of a good mod.
@@fahimhussain1918 Yes, that is true. However, the amount will be a bit bigger than if you have to click a link and go to a separate website. Maybe give them something for donating. Modrinth can add a leaderboard for donating and they can add badges that will show on their Modrinth account when they hit that mark. Having something to flex would go a long way to get someone to donate. They can also maybe add somthing to showing in-game also, even though I don't know how that will be possible without making a mod that all Modrinth users have to use, and that will be bad.
@@fahimhussain1918 Yes, that is true. However, the amount will be a bit bigger than if you have to click a link and go to a separate website. Maybe give them something for donating. Modrinth can add a leaderboard for donating and they can add badges that will show on their Modrinth account when they hit that mark. Having something to flex would go a long way to get someone to donate. They can also maybe add somthing to showing in-game also, even though I don't know how that will be possible without making a mod that all Modrinth users have to use, and that will be bad.
i personally hate having to pay for software in general, and its mostly because i don't have my own money, but when i do, i decide to spend it into something better instead of paying whatever paywall i encounter. as you said, money is very important, and i dont think paying for softwares, which is not even a physical thing, is worth it my money. HOWEVER, i think games are an exception. games are a work of art that i think it deserves it being consumed and purchased just like movies. and also, i already paid for minecraft, so why the heck i would pay for a mod? this ain't a DLC either
Software is work, it's a thing that a lot of people spend a lot of hours planning, designing, coding, debugging (especially debugging), testing, etc. Slavery is illegal just so you know. If you want to make people do things for you for free go back a few hundred years. Just because software isn't physically doesn't mean it isn't valuable, in fact is it very Obviously valuable given that you want it in the first place. You can think of software as "the knowledge of how to do something" because that's more or less what it is. It's code, a set of instructions for a computer to tell it how to do something. Knowledge is valuable, you pay thousands to go to a university and learn. In the case of SaaS (Software as a service, which is a business model where people pay you for a software based service), the product is the service and just like you would pay an accountant to do your taxes, you pay the SaaS company for their valuable work that benefits you (whatever it may be). Put yourself in the developer's shoes, if you spent half your life creating something cool, something valuable, something that other people want, would You want to give it away for free?
@@MatthewLack yes, i would do a software for free because i value more their usability and usefulness than money. if it is helping people it already makes me happy. money is a second term thing. it can be used only for making the software better
@@pvini07BR And how would you keep the people who work on software.. y'know... off the streets? By this logic farmers shouldn't be paid, accountants should work for free, lawyers should be free (they are the absolute opposite of free, so expensive). You sound like you have everything in your life paid for, and have no concept of the value, or necessity of money in the world.
@@pvini07BR And you know what actually I would love this, I would love for you to learn coding and come work for me for free. I'll give you my respect and a "thank you".
I like working on mods as FOSS. In fact, I kinda think Minecraft's gotten to a stable enough state that it itself should probably be made FOSS and left open to the community for continued development, because recent changes have been kinda mid and definitely within the scope of mods. For me, the "compensation" I get from working on the mod I work on is having visible commits on my GitHub and a project I can talk about openly in job interviews without worrying about NDAs etc.
But yeah, it would be nice to earn a living from modding as opposed to it _having_ to be a passion project, like most Open Source projects. Which is why we need to campaign for UBI to be a thing so developers can actually keep making the software that runs the world without having to worry about making enough to eat!
I'm surprised you didn't give high resolution resource packs an honorable mention here. I've always wondered how those are considered fine, but people worry about people paywalling mods.
Honestly probably the biggest difference is that if you can afford a higher end pc you can probably afford to pay for your 1028x1028 texture pack or whatever. Still seen some people charge for even the 64x64 versions though which is weird.
For me personally, I'm just sick of money being the center of the universe. I wish people didn't _need_ financial compensation just to survive, but its unfortunately the world we live it.
Reminds me of that physics mod that paid drm on it and wouldn’t launch if it didn’t detect you had a subscription to their Patreon.
How have I not seen anyone mention that sure, we don't like paid mods on Java, but Bedrock's entire monetization model is by making paid mods/texture packs? Microsoft/Mojang's actual stance seems to be "You can't make money from your mods... unless we get a cut off the top." Which is way scummier when you realize that. I agree that it would be nice for all mods to be free with voluntary donations. But Mojang/Microsoft don't seem to agree with that- they want that juicy revenue from those kids that see bad bedrock ports of java mods for 500 minecoins and ask their mom to buy it for them to play for 20 minutes.
Its kinds ironic, yes big mods do kinda feel so good you wouldn't mind sending a few bucks their way, hoever the underlying problem is then modding will end up like the MC Marketplace with a huge lack of quality control. Mods are made normally from passion, and unfortunately, when a scene gets monetized, that passion will get replaced by greed. Sure, passionate devs still exist, but my best comparison is the MC Maketplace and AAA gaming. There are so many issues not getting fixed or terrible at launch, yet you're expected to pay full price.
early access paywall then releasing for free is fine imo, dev gets support + bugtesters and less bugs in end product
Obviously it is illegal reading for 15 seconds on the Minecraft Eula on the section of mods states:
that you are not allowed to sell the mod or profit off said mod
even if they try to justify it by claiming it is a patreon reward it still goes against trying to profit off said mod
Mods should NEVER be paid. Simple as that.
I'm fine with people like Vazkii who have a Patreon for their mods that allows people to have access to beta files of various mods, as well as cosmetics in the live branch. Putting early access (often alongside official server access) behind a Patreon should never be an issue in my eyes, since what you're paying for is access to a potentially worse version of the mod, as well as a private server. By keeping Patreon beta and public release groups completely separate, they should be allowed to keep it as is since there's no situation where a Patreon supporter would be playing with regular players and have any difference in experience aside from goofy cosmetics like Botania's flowerheads that have no impact on the game's balance.
I feel like the best way would be to have betas of the updates of mods to be pay walled but when the update is finished it becomes free
paywalling mods for java would is absurd and terrible for the space, if you were looking to get paid the bedrock marketplace is literally right there, and you will just make more money out of it simply because the version is availiable everywere outside of pcs, a paywalled mod in pc is never a good idea, first off you literally wont get nearly as many people using it, cause we all know, we pc people are cheapskates that get everything on sale, you should have know what space you were signing in for whent you started learning java modding.
For many people it would be a lot of effort to learn C++, and before you say "then why did they go into java development?", they don't learn java just for minecraft, many people learn Java outside of minecraft for other purposes and then realize "oh wait, my favourite game is made in java I can use my skills to make plugins and mods".
@@MatthewLack Im pretty sure that C++ is more practiced than java, especially in the games industry, and once you know the basics the rest is syntax, but knowing and doing it well are different things, but if they know java practices then for mossing at least it really isn't the stretch people think it is, it's just a bit annoying.
@@ethanbuttazzi2602 Sure, but know that AMONGST the people already making mods for Java edition, most (all) of them know Java and not necessarily C++. So for a lot of them it'd be some effort to learn. And I also don't mean that it'd be effort to learn C++ the language (while it still would take effort because it is quite different, syntax is similar sure, but going from managed memory to unmanaged memory is a jump for some people.) What I really mean though is that bedrock is basically a completely different game and much of the experience you would have with making Java mods would not apply so you would have to relearn how to make mods.
@@MatthewLack it relly isnt a lot of effort, especially when the framework is alredy provided, its a few syntax differences and a few more pratifces, any decent programmer could make the switch in like 1-2 months maybe 3 if you have a hard time learning, and the fundamentals on how to make mods is still pretty much the same, registering, attaching behaviour etc, you are just approaching from a different framework the same elements, if you are determined to make money out of mods then you can definely spare the time, everything seems difficult until its not.
@@ethanbuttazzi2602 I'd say 1-2 months if you already know C++, but if you don't think it'll take 1-2 months just to get comfortable with C++. The thing that really takes time though is learning all the quirks of the game. I'm not saying it can't be done or that its extremely difficult, its just annoying and unnecessary when you can make money from java edition.
An in-between I've never seen been used but I think would work really well is: Paid for production. You get paid to make the mod, but once the mod is mod, you release it to everyone for free.
That ensures the developper's work never goes unrewarded, but from everyone other than the client''s point of view, it pretty much equivalent to someone else making a donation. Hard to argue a mod is paywalled if said mod either doesn't exist, or is availaible for free.
Minecraft mod dev here: I like the idea of allowing donations, MAYBE even the donators are able to beta test mods that are in-work, but finished versions should be free. So if I’m working on v1.0.1, I could post the beta of this to donators for testing/bug discovery, and when it’s done post the official v1.0.1 for free. Those who donate are typically even the ones most excited about testing new versions, anyhow
Okay so The Sims also had this recently, and honestly I think the same approach would work for Minecraft.
1. If a creator want to have ko-fi/patreon/etc exclusively as a tip jar, perfectly fine, no further inquires needed
2. Creators that want to use a patreon as an early access, also fine, as long as it is a reasonable length (ie- "get it one month early on patreon!" is fine; but "pay for patreon or get it free in 2032 lol" is not)
Like i's not perfect, not even sure if it has been enforced, but I think it's fine
This & mods locked behind discord need to be eradicated. Its extremely problematic.
No. Mods should NEVER be paid, they should be free for all
This might be satire, but in the off-chance it's not, are you saying that all mods, that hard-working developers have put THEIR time into, should be free? That all developers should just work for free and be slaves to the community?
I've never had an ad actually influence me to buy something
The only mod I would pay for is the physics mod, It just has so much effort put into it but Paywalls ruins stuff, and drain creativity. But on the other hand I do want people to make money off stuff and survive, so its tough.
him: talks about how you shouldn’t buy Patreons. also him: Asks you to buy his Patreon
I think u really missed the point. The issue isnt supporting creators on patreon wich is cool. The issue is creating a mod using free tools made by volunteers for decades, showing the mod you made off in a video and then hiding it behind a paywall. My patreon only has uncut versions of my interviews. Wich is an extra, not the point of my videos
"Mojang doesn't like paid mods!"
MC Bedrock Add-Ons: 😎😘🥳🤪
I feel like you shouldn’t have to pay for mods since nobody is forcing you to make these and before you bring up Minecraft Marketplace the bedrock marketplace completely allows it paid content from an official Microsoft service that’s why it doesn’t go against the EULA it would be different if it was on patreon or another third party website
I'm glad the Aether team has Patreon as optional. All subscribing to the Patreon does is give you a few additional skins, the mod itself is still free
My stance on this is I don't think it should be 'illegal' for mods to be paid, but I also don't want Java turning into bedrock where every single third party modification to the game is behind some form of paywall. Good example of this is physics mod pro. This mod would be so cool to have except it's behind a paywall :/, however however this guy gotta make money some how. I think the best way to go about it its like sodium where they have a 'Buy me a coffee' link or ko-fi or whatever it may be. Donations is the best way to tackle this dilemma in my opinion.
Better yet, why doesn't mojang do something like auditioning for eligibility? Maybe if Mojang gives certain creators the go ahead, a symbol saying "we trust you to do the right thing" some people can actually start making money off their mods
This whole thing kinda reminds me of channels like Digital Dreams, who basically puts a reshade preset and a list of mods (something anyone could replicate given fifteen minutes) behind a paywall
the entire video i was like ITCH, ITCH WOULD FIX THIS SO WELL and then you mentioned it. the way itch does its pay what you want ON THE DOWNLOADS PAGE i think would make more people donate than having to go to a completely different website
I can read ur mind
Breaching a company's EULA is not illegal. You shouldn't be trying to "clear up misconceptions" on the topic if the entire basis of your understanding in the area is incorrect.
i see a lot of youtube creators creating cool minecraft mods that i’d love to try out, but they’re always hidden behind their patreon which i don’t want to subscribe one month to just for a mod.
something i worry with any creators paywalling mods is one of the biggest issues in the sims 4 mod community currently -- people keeping outdated and broken mods behind a paywall for years without even ~trying~ to fix them
1:15 "Why would mojang care?"
Simple, microsoft doesnt want us spending money on mods so people who are willing to spend money go to buy it from them in the bedrock marketplace.
Mojang *
@@h3ck774 The thing is, unlike bedrock, you can go back to previous versions of the game in java if they added the "java marketplace" not only would it cause extreme backlash but people would just play the previous version to the marketplace update and add something like future MC to get all new minecraft features and mods for free, so mojang is trying to make people who would pay for mods switch to the version of the game they CAN profit off so this change to the EULA makes mod developers in bedrock effectively gain more than those on java so they end up switching versions to be able to charge for mods and making mojang more money.
And yeah mojang devs probably work for less than half an hour a week. There are TONS of optimizations and bug fixes they could add and they don't, it isn't even extra work the community has already made the code for them they just have to copy and paste it but we still got nothing and are pretty much forced to use those mods to make the game playable, especially in low end PCs.
Personally I don't use many mods that change gameplay or need to be on both server and client, but I tend to play a lot of anarchy. In the anarchy community, there's quite a few paid clients, but these tend to be higher quality than the free ones. These paid clients tend to be updated way more often, and in general just have better support. I know this does not really apply to mods in general, but this is just another example most people don't think of.
But aren't many popular plugins paid, is that also against the eula or not?
if its high quality i dont care if they want payment for it
I am more than happy for mod (and modpack) developers to be compensated financially. I have to admit that the mods I am willing to install are far more likely to have an open source license and a reasonably well run project to back them up.
No. We shouldnt pay for mods as for theyre the backbone behind the community and if we were to pay they would become soulless.
Mojang also already allows content makers to make money trough the marketplace and side donations like patreon(which btw is very close to itch).
As a shader dev I currently do this model: All updates are free and will forever be free for everyone. Tbose big updates happen every few months and in between that time I do beta versions my Patreons have access to. All features from the beta version will be for free in ghe next update.
Having a Patreon as a creator is helpful as I get a few extra bucks from something I sepnd hours and hours working on for free otherwise
Instructions unclear, I am now a convicted felon
I think a big issue could be money incentivising people into the wrong directions.
The over monetization of minecraft's custom content community is sickening. in theory it should be fine, but this is money, its going to be exploited.
So many things that used to just be free are now being charged for, Texture packs, maps, mods, shaders, ect...
The problem is how its presented, its always ALWAYS a monthly subscription, and when every single one of these subscriptions cost 10-15$ it gets VERY expensive to try out all the new content. On average, its probably 140-300$ per month for the bare minimum of popular texture packs maps and shaders, you aren't even guaranteed monthly updates as its to the whim of the content creator not the customer. Its being treated as a service but you are being given a good. There are obvious exceptions, Patrix is the best example of it done well, only 1$ a month with frequent updates. But then you go to PlanetMinecraft and every other post is monetized to a 15$ patreon its just gross. Minecraft isnt the only offender, Skyirm, GTAV, and so so many more games that used to be about free community content is now overly monetized.
I think the patreon paywall should only be there for when a mod is still under major development so people who are really interested can test it and give feedback while also supporting the dev, but after the mod is finished it def should be released for free. That’s how Craisin does it and I don’t mind it
I think there should be a possebility tompay for a modding service including a bunch of paid mods, so you can include then in public available modpacks.
"... culture shouldn't exist only for those who can afford it"
~~ Hakita, Developer of ultrakill
7:54 Essential is a backdoor*, although I'm not aware of anything malicious that has been done with it yet. e4mc is an open source mod that provides the same functionality of hosting a LAN world/server without having port forwarding set up, and only requires the host to have the mod installed.
*when run, the jar from their website downloads an installer that then downloads the mod, which contains a copy of the installer (for automatic updates). The automatic updates could be changed to push malware to any Essential user at any time when they start the game.
Ive seen a few people say this, any source you can give me? I wanne investigate further
@@Cygnus_MC I found it out by extracting the files out of the jar, decompiling them and going through the code. The code assembled a link to download another jar, which I also extracted and decompiled. The second jar assembles a link to download the actual mod, which includes a copy of one of the first 2 jars (I don't remember which one, and I don't currently have access to the computer I did the decompilations on)
If it is legitimate, this packaging method could just be to reduce the size of the initial download (and then including the installer in the final mod to allow for automatic updates), although I don't know why 2 installer stages would be better than just having the installer download the mod directly.
If the current version is malware, the obfuscated installation method will mean that an antivirus scanning the installer cannot detect the malware in the actual mod
If they are planning to release malware later, automatic updates provides an easy way to roll out the malicious version to other users
@mathmagician8191 thats some deep investigation u got there. If u have a discord, could u send me some screenshots?
arguably i think the worse trend is modders selling paid for shader packs, and then saying "wElL aCtUaLlY iTs A rESoUrCe pAcK", like my brother in Christ what do you think "mod" stands for?
Not gonna say if they should be paid, but even if they where, the ones that are, are arguably overpriced and the ones where is most unnecessary to have a paywall. In my experience the creators I've seen pushing these paid mods probably make enought to pay for the developement and also some profit just with the videos (specially if they are sponsored videos) and these mods tend to be pretty small and simple changes, with the patreons at prices of almost 10$, meanwhile there are giant mods that add hundreds of models and objects or even entire mechanics to the game that are completley free. So even if it was legal or we where fine with mods being paid, I don't think they should cost more than 50 cents or a dollar, specially these smaller ones.
WE should pay for Minecraft mods as a community.
That is via donations or advertisements.
But YOU shouldn't be forced to.
That is mods shouldn't be paywalled for the individual.
Marketplace be like:
I have seen this in VR Chat and Sonic Adventure DX, where mod makers take commissions to make mods for people. Idk how or if that could work for MC with the EULA since I didn’t read it.
Simple, if you own the game, no, if you don't, yes the pay devs of the game get comes from the initial purchase, moders use the game and make it more fun so more people play, similar to advertisements
To answer the original question, my answer is "yesn't". You shouldn't have to pay for mods to download and play them, but if you have the ability to, you really should donate to a mod developer to help encourage them to keep making stuff. It just sucks that the majority of people won't donate at all to any projects, and for another big portion a lot of people will end up donating to modpack developers (who still do a fair bit of work, just that a modpack is nothing without mods) simply because they believe that RLCraft is its own mod, instead of a bunch of different mods.
Idea for the next video: WorldEdit have abandoned Forge due to some issues with the recent updates. I've noticed more mods doing the same. Pixelmon is having some issues with NBT with Forge as well.
What is happening with Forge?
@Kile467 to forge? Nothing. Its still perfectly fine. The real question is why is suddenly everyone switching
I think theres also a 4. Option. Like aeronautics does it. Dont ask for donations but develop the mod in there own freetime next to a Job while not Stating a Release date and not creating any Kind of time Limits or Pressure for the devs.
Literaly make it a Hobby which hopefully a lot of people can enjoy and Profit from.
Thx dev Teams
1:22 Correction: there should be “else” before “anyone” and “using”
The EULA was illegally changed. There was no official notification through microsoft or email, only a Twitter post. TWITTER IS NOT A REQUIREMENT for a Minecraft account. And Mojang is based in Sweden. Sweden is Europe. It breaks the European law that requires an official announcement to every signed up end user.
Thats the iffy part about it yea. I should look into that actually
@@Cygnus_MC Like I found out about the change by being banned for 3 days IN SINGLEPLAYER for "breaking the EULA", no specifics at all. Just "breaking the EULA". Literally the next day the EULA drama began.
big respect for the balanced and chill take! nice video
Glad you enjoyed it!
One thing that wasn't covered here that some mod authors do is paywall the alpha/in-dev builds of a mod and put it out for free once it's at a release state. From what I heard, and this could be false, this is alright to do since it's done with the understanding that the mod will be made free after certain development stages are met. I personally don't mind this kind of model, it gives mod authors incentive and a way to support themselves while they're actively working on a mod, and once it's feature complete it'll be available for everyone.
Also Jetstarfish is a dunce, he deserves all the hate he's getting.
What about like a kickstarter for a mod? (This might be a dumb question)
shouldnt be an issue so long as the end result is free
I feel like if the mod author thinks his work should be payed for, He should have that right, no-one is forcing you to pay for the mod if you feel like its not worth the price the author wants.