A part, thought not all, of the difference in octane between gasoline sold in the U.S. in the 1960's vs. today is due to changes in how octane rating is determined for gasoline. Fuel sold in the U.S. in the 1960's used a different octane rating system - research octane number or RON. This rating system is still used in Europe and many other places. Fuel currently sold in the U.S. and Canada has an octane rating based upon an average of RON and motor octane number or MON which is referred to as anti-knock index or AKI. Also, MON is much lower than RON, so countries like the U.S. and Canada that use AKI have a numerically lower octane rating than some near-identical fuels sold in other countries using RON. To give an example, a premium fuel sold near where I live has an octane rating of 93 AKI. That fuel often has an RON of 98 and an MON of 88 - averaging to 83. If the exact same fuel was sold in Europe, it would be sold as 98 octane due to the use of RON. Similarly, it is possible that 91 octane (based on RON) regular fuel sold in the U.S. in 1969 has an near identical AKI to current 87 octane regular ([91 RON + 84 MON]/2 = 87.5 AKI).
My dad ran 95 % ethanol in his Harley when he raced it. That smells good. Before and well you burn it. Go to a Formula 1 race that is what they burn. Smells nice!
Yep. Fortunately my 351C 2V compression ratio is low enough where I can run 87 non ethanol gas in it with no problem. Not gonna win any races but at my age that's not an issue. Usually drive it once or twice a month. I have thought about hopping it up, but it runs good now, and has plenty of pep for the street. Tomorrow I'll have visions of roller cams and aluminum heads dancing in my head lol! Drove it to a cruise in yesterday and had a great time!
Dad used to buy "Super Fire Chief" from Texaco back in the late 60's early 70's, had a wonderful smell. I store my classics and even my modern fuel injected hot rod with rec-fuel that is 90 octane, but drive them for the summer on higher octane unleaded with alcohol.
Been running 93 with 10% ethanol in my GTO for years and don't have any issues with it. I rebuilt the Holley 750 a couple years ago that I've been running for 20 years because it was starting to leak and figured it was about time. When I opened it up it was surprisingly really clean inside. Once had the car off the road for a year and half with no stabilizer added prior. I added Star brite Startron to the tank before starting it and crossed my fingers and it started up and ran just fine. I use that in all my fuel containers and keep the fuel for a year and then run it through my cars if not used in my power equipment by then. I really can't remember last time I had an issue with bad fuel.
I think Holley does offer an accelerator pump that is ethanol resistant. If memory is right, it’s green. I like to add StarTron to my 69 F100 when I fill up, since I only drive it a few times a month. It’s another fuel stabilizer but also helps to disperse any moisture that may be in the tank.
I remember going to Sunoco and getting a higher octane gas for Friday and Saturday night racing. Sunoco only sold their higher octane gas on Fridays and Saturdays. Thanks for the video.
In an original classic with iron heads and unhardened valve seats I get it. the lead creates a pad for the valves as they close, but it burns a little dirty. If you have updated the engine, aluminum heads (if available) can help, as they remove heat from the combustion chamber more quickly and reduce hotspots that can cause detonation. The main reason they pushed for unleaded fuel was because it causes catalytic converters to overheat. Also, try adding some 2-stroke oil to your fuel at about 1 ounce per 5 gallons. It helps lubricate pumps, injectors, valves etc. and even adds a small amount of lube to the upper cylinder. It was meant to burn and in small quantities will cause no harm to any emissions systems. It's relatively cheap as an additive too.
One thing you didn't touch on was the boiling point of today's gasoline. I believe it boils at around 110*F or so. About 20 or 30 degrees less than the old days, causing vapor lock issues. I've seen it first hand with my '69 F250 w/ 360 2v, and my recently purchased 1986 P30 Chevy Step Van w/350 /4v. Had to resort to an electric fuel pumps because the added heat from the mechanical ones were just enough to cause the fuel to boil just after the pump. A relatively simple fix, but still a pain in the arse. The reason is that some of the components you mentioned in the additive packages was to help keep the fuel from boiling. That's why you got varnish if you let the fuel sit for a long period of time. Now, you don't get that particular thing happening. With modern fuel injection running at 45-60 psi or higher, the fuel does not need the anti-evaporation additives. I believe this all comes under the heading of "Unintended consequences"....
I have a 383 stroker with 10.2:1 compression timing locked out at 38* I’ve tried 93, 91, 89 & 87 all with ethanol 10% my engine seems to like 87. I have aluminum heads and I run my temp at 170-180*. With 3:73 gears and a stall converter my car doesn’t have to work hard to move. That may be why 87 runs so good for me. Remember The hotter your engine is and the harder it has to work to move (gears) the more likely you are to have detonation. Plus, if you don’t need the higher octane then don’t use it. When I was messing around with octane I actually lost hp using 104 gas. I lost 6hp and no matter how we tuned it we couldn’t get that 6hp back. Dropped the octane down to 93 and bam we got that 6hp back. I wish we would’ve tried the 87 on the dyno. The 87 makes my engine run smoother and I can still hit 6500rpms without a problem. Now if I had iron heads and ran my car at the recommended temp of 195* I’d probably run higher octane.
🔔😎 Jeff you got off on the wrong foot. Todays octane is R+M/2. The average of research number and motor number. Back then it was the higher number only. Todays 91 is really a + or - about 3, some say 4 octane. So todays 93 is more like the old 96 or 97. Yes, and the refining is much different, for smog reasons.
Ive heard something similar to this before but my first hand experience says otherwise. Have a couple original HO powered 60s cars and they will ping like crazy running todays premium without pulling substantial timing out of them.
I buy 89 ethanol free for my Mustang, lawnmower and generators. The price for fuel is not high. I know some people will disagree, but it is a free market and you will pay what ever the stations want or not drive. I lived when I bought gas at 100.00 per tank 40 years ago. My monthly gas was 400.00 per month. I am not concern about price. Just a note, do not put ethanol in a fiberglass gas tank on a boat.
The highest octane that I can find in the Kansas City area is 91-92. Modern octane, it's defined differently than from the 1960s. There used to be a formula on fuel pumps.
Water injection with methane additive is an economical way to go. The kit will cost about $300 at Summit Racing.....A-lot cheaper per gallon than VP additive per gallon over a period of driving......
To perfectly preserve a fuel system indefinitely you must first drain it dry. Then start the engine and let it run until quitting. Then fill tank all the way up with regular Stihl 50-1 2-cycle mixed gas. Start it and run it at least 15 minutes. Drain it dry Start it let it run dry. Done. Not saying it isn't labor intensive to do this to a vehicle. But it can sit for 50 years empty, battery removed. Gas it, install new battery A C T I O N ! ! !
I have heard of people use Marvel Mystery oil in gas. Would this help keep fuel from evaporation? Since it is petroleum based. Just a wild idea in my head!
The door was wide open to bring up politics when mentioning California and you stayed away from that. I can’t stand our taxes amidst other stuff here in California. I just wanted to say thank you for not getting on some pedestal about it. Love the channel. You guys have been instrumental in helping me learning about my Mustang.
Funny thing is, I am old enough to remember when the fed's killed leaded gasoline and was working in a full service gas station when they did it. And it was pretty much gone for automotive use by 1986 even though you could still find it in some places until 1996. By 1987 we was mixing in Avgas to regular unleaded, and yes Avgas still has lead in it and can be mixed into automotive grade gasoline, if you want to be buying a new cat for your car. As for that lead substitute you can buy over the counter, that stuff is junk as it will plug up a carburetor PDQ and that is because it will settle in the bottom of your car bowl. I can remember one of our shop mechanics having to clean out a carb on an old Jeep Grand Cherokee wagoner that the customer had been adding lead substitute into the gas for his Jeep, that was back in 1993 it will not mix even in the non-ethanol unleaded gasoline. And I ran regular unleaded in my 1965 Ford F-100 and my 1979 Ford F-350 with it's 390 engine with no problem even ran the ethanol gasoline in it without a problem.
Thanks for the info, I have not had a lot of experience with it settling in the bottom of the carburetor. My current thinking is to just go ahead and rebuild the engine to work with modern unleaded gasoline and be done with it LOL
Carb Defender by Driven Products combats the ethanol problem in gasoline. I am fortunate enough to have non-ethanol gasoline (87 octane) that I use in my old cars with carburetors that sit all winter. They are only 9.5:1 compression ratio, so the octane is not a problem.
i am running a Weber carb on my '65 240 F100. Webers are designed for ethanol, but report that the alcohol absorbs water. They recommend running the carb dry for storage
Agreed that some carburetors are set up to be able to run alcohol. And I worry about running dry carburetors that are not designed to run alcohol. Are 1964 Falcon experienced a accelerator pump failure after the carburetor was led to dry out. Not to mention what alcohol can do to needle and seat setups.
It has been my understanding that you cannot buy aircraft fuel for road use without a tail number from an aircraft. But your area may be different than mine.
The state is making more off a gallon of gas than the stations are. I drive a big rig in the Bay Area. I spend nearly one thousand a week on fuel and bridges.
I’ve heard a lot of people talk about non-ethanol fuel and was wondering where to get it. As you said Google is my friend. Canada has banned ethanol free gas. You will find NO ethanol free gas in Canada at any pump anywhere now. Including the marked Marine fuel. I guess that answers my question. I guess I’m OK with that since it is better for the environment…………there is no use for us all trying to save our classic cars if we can’t drive them due to hurricanes, forest fires and unbearable heat.
Do you think growing inedible corn that gets sprayed in tons of glyphosate is actually better for the environment? Not to mention the reduced mpg/kpl. It’s all money. Don’t let them fool you.
$2.87 a gal? I wish. Went past a gas station today and gas was $3.59 a gal. Ah, the fun of living in Cook county, in NE Illinois. And gas without ethanol is nowhere to be found anywhere near here. ☹ Thank you for the info!
If you have an airport nearby you're just about as good cost and quality of fuel getting 100LL as it is a long chain hydrocarbon higher quality fuel it has great shelf life as well. The next best thing is going to be 91 octane marina fuel with some Stabil.
LOL, I'm not sure that he was eating it. The running theory, I believe, is that when you're working and painting a lot of times, you're getting it on your skin. And the paints in his day contained a good bit of lead.
So for those of us that run the stock non-hipo, mundane compression engine (myself a '71 351C 2V) and no option for entanol-free gas,what should I/we be running? I do add lead, rather, lead substitute on every oter tank. $6 a bottle isn;t too much to splurge. Also, for better or worse ethanol and corn feed are what keeps the corn farmers in business.
I'm not saying that you have to or don't have to do anything. If the engine is running well and you're using it regularly, the ethanol fuels are not an issue IMHO. The biggest issue with ethanol is leaving them sit and a lower boiling point. More with the lower octane fuels that we have now.
My answer any more is a stainless fuel tank with stainless lines and fuel injection. For an all original car that's not really an option, so ehthanol free and octane booster is probably the way to go, as you suggested.
A stainless gas tank in Lyons can't hurt but the problem we run into is the intermediary rubber lines that have to go between that. It would be really cool if someone would come up with a fuel hose that is an alcohol resistant hose. And yes I know they do have such things out there but they don't look like the original hoses. And most of them are not in a standard size they are now almost all metric.
@@AutoRestoMod I've used Gates Barricade rubber hose with decent success on my carburated cars and a boat; have you tried that? It comes in 5/16 and 3/8 which should work on most old stuff. On my fuel injected LS3 68 Camaro, the only soft lines were a short section between the tank and the hardline and a short section from the hardline to the fuel rail, and those were PTFE AN lines. The only reason for the soft sections was for vibration and flex protection of the line. I used a Ridgid AN flare tool (amazing piece of kit btw) to put female AN fittings on each end of the stainless hard line. It's been over 10 years now and everything has been fine. This car is in another state and sits with fuel in it. I left a mostly full tank in it for about 2 years once, and there was no damage, even checked inside the tank with an inspection camera. Of course, the fuel was drained out and used for cleaning parts on another project. I fully understand that AN lines aren't for everyone, but on the top of a gas tank you don't see them, and if you do it right with black fittings they will be mostly unnoticable once the air cleaner goes on. Food for thought.
We have a station that only sells alcohol free in 87, 89 and 91 AKI Unleaded. 4 gal of 91 AKI Unleaded + 1 gal of VP 110 Race Fuel works for a 428 CJ in a '69 Fairlane Cobra.
Yes some folks are luckier to have the higher octane non-ethanol fuels available in their area. The highest I can find locally is 89. And I just discovered that the other day when I filled up on the other side of town.
And therein lies the rub, a lot of times tuning is the problem but these cars were still more designed to run higher octane fuels. Plus, I would imagine that your Cleveland probably has hardened seats in it, which pre 1971 engines do not usually. But I'm glad you're having great success with yours!
Rebuilding my carb due to etoh fuel. Still can get 93 real gas at one station in my area, but a real pita if you don't drive the car frequently with modern fuel.
I run 87 non ethanol with octane boost with lead additive in my 68 Continental with 460. My 75 Gran Torino 351W seems fine with 87 non ethanol. Running Edelbrock carb on both.
@@AutoRestoMod The engine is out of 79 van the seats should be hardened. Nice thing it has the saganaw power steering pump. I have a dove 460 I'm my 78 F-150 that I rebuilt back in 89 drove it around 180000 on unleaded gas I did pound a valve seat it finally. I had hardened seats installed after that. It's my next project to get on the road.
Some great information. I am wondering if you have had your valve seats hardened and have switched over to something like a Holley Sniper do you still need the additive? I still try to run non-ethnyol fuel when I can find it.
The highest octane pump gas that I can find easily in my area (mid-Iowa) is 91 but it is non-ethanol (at least so far). The other common pump gas grades are non-ethanol 87 and 10% ethanol 87. Non-ethanol 91 and the non-ethanol 87 do cost more and they are in the same ballpark for cost of each other.
@@richavic4520 Yes, the Casey's in my area have non-ethanol 91 as well as the non-ethanol 87 and ethanol 87. The local Hy-Vee also has the non-ethanol 91, the non-ethanol 87 and ethanol 87. I have not found anything higher than the 91 in my area. Maybe there is someone in the Des Moines area with 93, I have not looked when I have been down there,
@kimbarron Casey's in my area seems to be the only station that guarantees ethanol free. One problem is the pump line will have ethanol fuel in it, unless the customer before you got the good stuff.
@@richavic4520 I have never thought about the small amount of fuel that is left in the hose that could be ethanol blend. I am guessing that it would not be enough to be a problem when filling up a tank. If the line/hose was 10' long and 1.25" in diameter that would be just over .6 gal of gas left in the line (just a guess on the line diameter and length). At 10% ethanol, that would be just over .06 gal of ethanol. On a 15 gal fill it would be less than .5% ethanol. I have used the Casey's 91 in my open track car and have never had any ethanol type of issues. The open track car may sit for a while at times.
🔔😎 FYI TRIVIA: Remember the "gold standard" that the dollar was based on until 71 ? Gold dollar price has increased @ 68x. That means the then $0.31 gas should now be $ 21+ per gallon. The old days' prices for cars etc. sounds cheap, but $4 hr was union wages in 1970. Do you think that a major change is inevitable?
I have 4 oldtimers.. mustangs and taunus.. I alwais tank normal feul that's youre lowest number feul I have no problems ! When I stop driving them a whole winter I put in the expensive feul to be save !! Never had a problem in 6 years !! With fuel !! Sometimes I trough in some editor..!
I don't think either one of those can be considered an octane booster what you're really looking for is the properties that octane booster can add to your gasoline
My 1967 ford ltd 390 4bbl dual exhaust factory equiped that way(bone stock)did not like this ethanol water'ed down garbage they call gas even back in the 90's With 93 octane it knocked pinged and rattled. People don't understand for the most part that this ethanol mix crap and carburetors do not like each other even the newest over the counter holly's edelbrocks etc. The rubber aka soft parts will eventually suffer and lots of carburetors i have torn down will have corrosion/white powder forming stopping up jets. Carburetor's are vented so oxygen mixes with standing fuel causes the issues if left sitting for long periods of time. Efi systems are for the most part is a sealed system and you hardly ever see any concerns there. Ethanol free gas that you may encounter at your gas station may not be totally ethanol free and this happens a lot folks. There's not many real carburetor mechanics left we are dying off, and my health is failing. Where i set ignition poings by eye, and set timing by ear well that don't come as easy as it used to. Great article.
I think when you did your research on tax per gallon by states, I think you didn't go down to the states starting in "W's". Because I live in Washington state and it seems to me we have been known to have the high's gas tax for many years. Maybe I'm wrong but some how it doesn't make me feel better. Oh did I tell yea we don't have state income tax. So I guest that makes up for it.
VP Octanium raises octane 8 full numbers 91-99 all the others raise points 91 to 91.x a waste of time and $. VP is the only additive that raises numbers.
Check out Boostane Professional. Add I ounce at around $1 to one gallon of 93 octane to make one gallon of 100 octane, plus its o2 & cat convertor safe.
Not to say that you have to, just saying that it might be a good idea if you don't daily Drive the vehicle. I might even look at running premium in there every once in awhile just to see what it does for the vehicle.
ATM is building my e85 carb. I'm switching over to a 22-gallon tank. I have multiple stations near me that sell good e85. I have a back-up carb for premium fuel if I ever decide to take a longer road trip and can't get e85.
My friend's new Chevy pickup drops from 17 mpg on E10 to 11 mpg on E85. Yes I'm aware that E85 has a broad range of E depending... That's why these multi fuel vehicles sense how much E is actually in the fuel. BTW, E10 reduces mileage about 6 % based on BTU content, compared to ZERO E gas. I've tested several cars under specific conditions and 6% is confirmed. Buying ZERO-E is not cost effective for mileage. Like 80- 95 cents per gallon more for ZERO-E.
A part, thought not all, of the difference in octane between gasoline sold in the U.S. in the 1960's vs. today is due to changes in how octane rating is determined for gasoline. Fuel sold in the U.S. in the 1960's used a different octane rating system - research octane number or RON. This rating system is still used in Europe and many other places. Fuel currently sold in the U.S. and Canada has an octane rating based upon an average of RON and motor octane number or MON which is referred to as anti-knock index or AKI. Also, MON is much lower than RON, so countries like the U.S. and Canada that use AKI have a numerically lower octane rating than some near-identical fuels sold in other countries using RON. To give an example, a premium fuel sold near where I live has an octane rating of 93 AKI. That fuel often has an RON of 98 and an MON of 88 - averaging to 83. If the exact same fuel was sold in Europe, it would be sold as 98 octane due to the use of RON. Similarly, it is possible that 91 octane (based on RON) regular fuel sold in the U.S. in 1969 has an near identical AKI to current 87 octane regular ([91 RON + 84 MON]/2 = 87.5 AKI).
Thank you!
You are correct.
I remember that the gas in the 1960's smelled good. Today's stuff not so much.
The sulfur smelled good?
I thought I was the only one. Ethanol fuel absolutely stinks.
@@hotrodray6802 No. It was the lead. But IMO Nothing smells as good as Nitro.
@JeffDuncan-q4p you do know that the fuel in the 60s had 15% Tetraethollead. That is arsenic devolved in ethanol!
My dad ran 95 % ethanol in his Harley when he raced it. That smells good. Before and well you burn it. Go to a Formula 1 race that is what they burn. Smells nice!
Yep. Fortunately my 351C 2V compression ratio is low enough where I can run 87 non ethanol gas in it with no problem. Not gonna win any races but at my age that's not an issue. Usually drive it once or twice a month. I have thought about hopping it up, but it runs good now, and has plenty of pep for the street. Tomorrow I'll have visions of roller cams and aluminum heads dancing in my head lol! Drove it to a cruise in yesterday and had a great time!
Glad to hear you're enjoying it!
Dad used to buy "Super Fire Chief" from Texaco back in the late 60's early 70's, had a wonderful smell. I store my classics and even my modern fuel injected hot rod with rec-fuel that is 90 octane, but drive them for the summer on higher octane unleaded with alcohol.
Been running 93 with 10% ethanol in my GTO for years and don't have any issues with it. I rebuilt the Holley 750 a couple years ago that I've been running for 20 years because it was starting to leak and figured it was about time. When I opened it up it was surprisingly really clean inside. Once had the car off the road for a year and half with no stabilizer added prior. I added Star brite Startron to the tank before starting it and crossed my fingers and it started up and ran just fine. I use that in all my fuel containers and keep the fuel for a year and then run it through my cars if not used in my power equipment by then. I really can't remember last time I had an issue with bad fuel.
I think Holley does offer an accelerator pump that is ethanol resistant. If memory is right, it’s green. I like to add StarTron to my 69 F100 when I fill up, since I only drive it a few times a month. It’s another fuel stabilizer but also helps to disperse any moisture that may be in the tank.
I remember going to Sunoco and getting a higher octane gas for Friday and Saturday night racing. Sunoco only sold their higher octane gas on Fridays and Saturdays. Thanks for the video.
In an original classic with iron heads and unhardened valve seats I get it. the lead creates a pad for the valves as they close, but it burns a little dirty. If you have updated the engine, aluminum heads (if available) can help, as they remove heat from the combustion chamber more quickly and reduce hotspots that can cause detonation. The main reason they pushed for unleaded fuel was because it causes catalytic converters to overheat.
Also, try adding some 2-stroke oil to your fuel at about 1 ounce per 5 gallons. It helps lubricate pumps, injectors, valves etc. and even adds a small amount of lube to the upper cylinder. It was meant to burn and in small quantities will cause no harm to any emissions systems. It's relatively cheap as an additive too.
Very very cool idea I never thought of doing the two-stroke oil
So what about a Maxima 2 stroke oil like 927....sounds like good idea any guidelines to follow as as brand/type....I like that idea👍👍
In my area Sheetz sells 90 octane ethanol-free gas. It's the pump with the Red handle.
No Sheetz. Come on you had to know I was going to go there. LOL
One thing you didn't touch on was the boiling point of today's gasoline. I believe it boils at around 110*F or so. About 20 or 30 degrees less than the old days, causing vapor lock issues. I've seen it first hand with my '69 F250 w/ 360 2v, and my recently purchased 1986 P30 Chevy Step Van w/350 /4v. Had to resort to an electric fuel pumps because the added heat from the mechanical ones were just enough to cause the fuel to boil just after the pump. A relatively simple fix, but still a pain in the arse. The reason is that some of the components you mentioned in the additive packages was to help keep the fuel from boiling. That's why you got varnish if you let the fuel sit for a long period of time. Now, you don't get that particular thing happening. With modern fuel injection running at 45-60 psi or higher, the fuel does not need the anti-evaporation additives. I believe this all comes under the heading of "Unintended consequences"....
Good points. I did lightly touch on that in the video, but not to the level that you hit it there.
Yup, my issue is hot restarts....vapor lock....
To reduce my vapor lock issues, I switched my fuel log and lines from dead-head to bypass/return style.
I have a 383 stroker with 10.2:1 compression timing locked out at 38*
I’ve tried
93, 91, 89 & 87 all with ethanol 10%
my engine seems to like 87.
I have aluminum heads and I run my temp at 170-180*.
With 3:73 gears and a stall converter my car doesn’t have to work hard to move.
That may be why 87 runs so good for me.
Remember
The hotter your engine is and the harder it has to work to move (gears) the more likely you are to have detonation.
Plus, if you don’t need the higher octane then don’t use it.
When I was messing around with octane I actually lost hp using 104 gas. I lost 6hp and no matter how we tuned it we couldn’t get that 6hp back.
Dropped the octane down to 93 and bam we got that 6hp back.
I wish we would’ve tried the 87 on the dyno.
The 87 makes my engine run smoother and I can still hit 6500rpms without a problem.
Now if I had iron heads and ran my car at the recommended temp of 195* I’d probably run higher octane.
🔔😎
Jeff you got off on the wrong foot.
Todays octane is R+M/2. The average of research number and motor number.
Back then it was the higher number only.
Todays 91 is really a + or - about 3, some say 4 octane.
So todays 93 is more like the old 96 or 97.
Yes, and the refining is much different, for smog reasons.
Ive heard something similar to this before but my first hand experience says otherwise. Have a couple original HO powered 60s cars and they will ping like crazy running todays premium without pulling substantial timing out of them.
@doxnoogle5782
Have you rejetted for the oxygenated fuel? If not they are likely running lean.
I buy 89 ethanol free for my Mustang, lawnmower and generators. The price for fuel is not high. I know some people will disagree, but it is a free market and you will pay what ever the stations want or not drive. I lived when I bought gas at 100.00 per tank 40 years ago. My monthly gas was 400.00 per month. I am not concern about price. Just a note, do not put ethanol in a fiberglass gas tank on a boat.
The highest octane that I can find in the Kansas City area is 91-92.
Modern octane, it's defined differently than from the 1960s. There used to be a formula on fuel pumps.
Great info, thanks Jeff. We can still get ethanol-free gas at some stations in some areas of Canada, thankfully we are in one.
Water injection with methane additive is an economical way to go. The kit will cost about $300 at Summit Racing.....A-lot cheaper per gallon than VP additive per gallon over a period of driving......
Lead was added to fuel to prevent valve seat recession not raise the fuel octane.
Actually Kettering added lead to the gas to increase octane. Better wear was just a convenient by product.
Yes the older engines need harden valve seats installed .I found that out on a 68 big block Ford.
To perfectly preserve a fuel system indefinitely you must first drain it dry.
Then start the engine and let it run until quitting.
Then fill tank all the way up with regular Stihl 50-1 2-cycle mixed gas.
Start it and run it at least 15 minutes.
Drain it dry
Start it let it run dry.
Done.
Not saying it isn't labor intensive to do this to a vehicle.
But it can sit for 50 years empty, battery removed.
Gas it, install new battery
A C T I O N ! ! !
I have heard of people use Marvel Mystery oil in gas. Would this help keep fuel from evaporation? Since it is petroleum based. Just a wild idea in my head!
The door was wide open to bring up politics when mentioning California and you stayed away from that. I can’t stand our taxes amidst other stuff here in California. I just wanted to say thank you for not getting on some pedestal about it. Love the channel. You guys have been instrumental in helping me learning about my Mustang.
I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. Keep watching! I try to stay out of Politics as much as I can because cars are Universal politics isn't LOL.
Back in the day people would say we pumped Ethyl behind the gas station every day & night.
Not sure if I can still laugh at that joke with times being what they are. 🤪
@AutoRestoMod so true. They took the lead out of gas and must have put it somewhere else. 🤔
Funny thing is, I am old enough to remember when the fed's killed leaded gasoline and was working in a full service gas station when they did it. And it was pretty much gone for automotive use by 1986 even though you could still find it in some places until 1996. By 1987 we was mixing in Avgas to regular unleaded, and yes Avgas still has lead in it and can be mixed into automotive grade gasoline, if you want to be buying a new cat for your car. As for that lead substitute you can buy over the counter, that stuff is junk as it will plug up a carburetor PDQ and that is because it will settle in the bottom of your car bowl. I can remember one of our shop mechanics having to clean out a carb on an old Jeep Grand Cherokee wagoner that the customer had been adding lead substitute into the gas for his Jeep, that was back in 1993 it will not mix even in the non-ethanol unleaded gasoline. And I ran regular unleaded in my 1965 Ford F-100 and my 1979 Ford F-350 with it's 390 engine with no problem even ran the ethanol gasoline in it without a problem.
Thanks for the info, I have not had a lot of experience with it settling in the bottom of the carburetor. My current thinking is to just go ahead and rebuild the engine to work with modern unleaded gasoline and be done with it LOL
Carb Defender by Driven Products combats the ethanol problem in gasoline.
I am fortunate enough to have non-ethanol gasoline (87 octane) that I use in my old cars with carburetors that sit all winter.
They are only 9.5:1 compression ratio, so the octane is not a problem.
Fuel in my area is 91 octane non ethanol and regular is 10% ethanol. Can’t get non ethanol regular anywhere.
i am running a Weber carb on my '65 240 F100. Webers are designed for ethanol, but report that the alcohol absorbs water. They recommend running the carb dry for storage
Agreed that some carburetors are set up to be able to run alcohol. And I worry about running dry carburetors that are not designed to run alcohol. Are 1964 Falcon experienced a accelerator pump failure after the carburetor was led to dry out. Not to mention what alcohol can do to needle and seat setups.
Used to go to the local airstrip and pump 110 directly into our built 78 400 inch T/A.Try that today.
I think you now have to have a tail number for an aircraft to be able to get aircraft fuel
What about the shell nitro premium ????
I got regular 90 local here in Kentucky at 5 star, its like 4,19 a gallon, im running a 68 302 in my 87 mustang
I have small airport down the road I run prop fuel 100LL
It has been my understanding that you cannot buy aircraft fuel for road use without a tail number from an aircraft. But your area may be different than mine.
If it was built before the 60s the fuel doesn't have enough Octane! My 1942 Ford jeep had 2 timing marks. One for 98 Octane and one fore 104 Octane!
I buy alot of boostane
Gas is a bit higher well more than that in CA About 5.00 for mid grade.
The state is making more off a gallon of gas than the stations are. I drive a big rig in the Bay Area. I spend nearly one thousand a week on fuel and bridges.
Ouch.
$3.499 91 non ethanol at Sinclair from our Hannah's. I run it in all our vehicles.
I’ve heard a lot of people talk about non-ethanol fuel and was wondering where to get it. As you said Google is my friend. Canada has banned ethanol free gas. You will find NO ethanol free gas in Canada at any pump anywhere now. Including the marked Marine fuel. I guess that answers my question. I guess I’m OK with that since it is better for the environment…………there is no use for us all trying to save our classic cars if we can’t drive them due to hurricanes, forest fires and unbearable heat.
Do you think growing inedible corn that gets sprayed in tons of glyphosate is actually better for the environment? Not to mention the reduced mpg/kpl. It’s all money. Don’t let them fool you.
$2.87 a gal? I wish. Went past a gas station today and gas was $3.59 a gal. Ah, the fun of living in Cook county, in NE Illinois. And gas without ethanol is nowhere to be found anywhere near here. ☹ Thank you for the info!
Well, that does suck.
If you have an airport nearby you're just about as good cost and quality of fuel getting 100LL as it is a long chain hydrocarbon higher quality fuel it has great shelf life as well. The next best thing is going to be 91 octane marina fuel with some Stabil.
Here in Oklahoma we can get 87-89-91 octane no-lead at the pump its more expensive than the ethanol fuel but the alcohol is subsidized by the gov't.
I wish we could get it like that here but as far as I can tell that's not going to happen
Van Gogh was eating his paint.
LOL, I'm not sure that he was eating it. The running theory, I believe, is that when you're working and painting a lot of times, you're getting it on your skin. And the paints in his day contained a good bit of lead.
So for those of us that run the stock non-hipo, mundane compression engine (myself a '71 351C 2V) and no option for entanol-free gas,what should I/we be running? I do add lead, rather, lead substitute on every oter tank. $6 a bottle isn;t too much to splurge. Also, for better or worse ethanol and corn feed are what keeps the corn farmers in business.
I'm not saying that you have to or don't have to do anything. If the engine is running well and you're using it regularly, the ethanol fuels are not an issue IMHO. The biggest issue with ethanol is leaving them sit and a lower boiling point. More with the lower octane fuels that we have now.
My answer any more is a stainless fuel tank with stainless lines and fuel injection. For an all original car that's not really an option, so ehthanol free and octane booster is probably the way to go, as you suggested.
A stainless gas tank in Lyons can't hurt but the problem we run into is the intermediary rubber lines that have to go between that. It would be really cool if someone would come up with a fuel hose that is an alcohol resistant hose. And yes I know they do have such things out there but they don't look like the original hoses. And most of them are not in a standard size they are now almost all metric.
@@AutoRestoMod I've used Gates Barricade rubber hose with decent success on my carburated cars and a boat; have you tried that? It comes in 5/16 and 3/8 which should work on most old stuff. On my fuel injected LS3 68 Camaro, the only soft lines were a short section between the tank and the hardline and a short section from the hardline to the fuel rail, and those were PTFE AN lines. The only reason for the soft sections was for vibration and flex protection of the line. I used a Ridgid AN flare tool (amazing piece of kit btw) to put female AN fittings on each end of the stainless hard line. It's been over 10 years now and everything has been fine. This car is in another state and sits with fuel in it. I left a mostly full tank in it for about 2 years once, and there was no damage, even checked inside the tank with an inspection camera. Of course, the fuel was drained out and used for cleaning parts on another project. I fully understand that AN lines aren't for everyone, but on the top of a gas tank you don't see them, and if you do it right with black fittings they will be mostly unnoticable once the air cleaner goes on. Food for thought.
I mix 100 octane with my 91 octane. 10:1. It still cost $20 for two gallons.
you can de-ethanol E10 fuels, but octane drops. Think 93 E10 de-ethanoled is like 91 octane.
We have a station that only sells alcohol free in 87, 89 and 91 AKI Unleaded. 4 gal of 91 AKI Unleaded + 1 gal of VP 110 Race Fuel works for a 428 CJ in a '69 Fairlane Cobra.
Yes some folks are luckier to have the higher octane non-ethanol fuels available in their area. The highest I can find locally is 89. And I just discovered that the other day when I filled up on the other side of town.
I would love for that to be the case around here but it just isn't
I'm running 9.8:1 in a 400 with CHI heads on 87. I have ran 10.5 CR in a 351C with open chamber 4V heads on 87. Tuning is critical.
And therein lies the rub, a lot of times tuning is the problem but these cars were still more designed to run higher octane fuels. Plus, I would imagine that your Cleveland probably has hardened seats in it, which pre 1971 engines do not usually. But I'm glad you're having great success with yours!
@@AutoRestoMod yes, they have hard seats. Even the factory induction hardened seats erode rather quickly.
Rebuilding my carb due to etoh fuel. Still can get 93 real gas at one station in my area, but a real pita if you don't drive the car frequently with modern fuel.
I run 87 non ethanol with octane boost with lead additive in my 68 Continental with 460. My 75 Gran Torino 351W seems fine with 87 non ethanol. Running Edelbrock carb on both.
Depending on if the 351 Windsor has hardened seats in it that is a very doable thing. Unleaded gas started to be a thing in the early 1970s.
@@AutoRestoMod The engine is out of 79 van the seats should be hardened. Nice thing it has the saganaw power steering pump. I have a dove 460 I'm my 78 F-150 that I rebuilt back in 89 drove it around 180000 on unleaded gas I did pound a valve seat it finally. I had hardened seats installed after that. It's my next project to get on the road.
Some great information. I am wondering if you have had your valve seats hardened and have switched over to something like a Holley Sniper do you still need the additive? I still try to run non-ethnyol fuel when I can find it.
The highest octane pump gas that I can find easily in my area (mid-Iowa) is 91 but it is non-ethanol (at least so far). The other common pump gas grades are non-ethanol 87 and 10% ethanol 87. Non-ethanol 91 and the non-ethanol 87 do cost more and they are in the same ballpark for cost of each other.
Casey's?
@@richavic4520 Yes, the Casey's in my area have non-ethanol 91 as well as the non-ethanol 87 and ethanol 87. The local Hy-Vee also has the non-ethanol 91, the non-ethanol 87 and ethanol 87. I have not found anything higher than the 91 in my area. Maybe there is someone in the Des Moines area with 93, I have not looked when I have been down there,
@kimbarron Casey's in my area seems to be the only station that guarantees ethanol free.
One problem is the pump line will have ethanol fuel in it, unless the customer before you got the good stuff.
@@richavic4520 I have never thought about the small amount of fuel that is left in the hose that could be ethanol blend. I am guessing that it would not be enough to be a problem when filling up a tank. If the line/hose was 10' long and 1.25" in diameter that would be just over .6 gal of gas left in the line (just a guess on the line diameter and length). At 10% ethanol, that would be just over .06 gal of ethanol. On a 15 gal fill it would be less than .5% ethanol. I have used the Casey's 91 in my open track car and have never had any ethanol type of issues. The open track car may sit for a while at times.
@@kimbarron same with my wife's 2000 Camaro SS
🔔😎
FYI TRIVIA:
Remember the "gold standard" that the dollar was based on until 71 ?
Gold dollar price has increased @ 68x.
That means the then $0.31 gas should now be $ 21+ per gallon.
The old days' prices for cars etc. sounds cheap, but $4 hr was union wages in 1970.
Do you think that a major change is inevitable?
Change is inevitable.
Thanks
I have 4 oldtimers.. mustangs and taunus.. I alwais tank normal feul that's youre lowest number feul I have no problems ! When I stop driving them a whole winter I put in the expensive feul to be save !! Never had a problem in 6 years !! With fuel !! Sometimes I trough in some editor..!
I'm notsure if European, Australian, South American, and any other country uses as much ethanol in their fuel as we do.
so one can of the VP racing additive treats on tank full and will raise it 8 points? So 15 gallons of 91 will now be 99? Thanks.
What about Seafoam? Or Barryman's B12? I use Barryman's in my 67 Mustang, a couple times a summer. But dont think it would help for winter storage.
I don't think either one of those can be considered an octane booster what you're really looking for is the properties that octane booster can add to your gasoline
I get ethanol free 93 octane all the time locally, but it’s like $4.50 a gallon.
I would love to have 93 octane non-ethanol but the truth of the matter is in a lot of areas it's just not available
Wish I could get 100% 93. All I can find around me is 89 or 110.
My pet peeve is why do they still call it “unleaded”? All auto gas is unleaded.
Once a month?! That poor lonely, neglected Mustang. You should sell it to me. My '63 Ranchero DAILY could use a playpal... or a donor engine
Does the artificial lead additives protect valve seats?
I am unsure about that but I can see no other reason for them to do the artificial lead then to help lubricate the valves in older engines
might be Mozart? from playing leaded glass instruments?
Carburetors suck. If you use pump gas, get a wideband, and jet accordingly. Old, high compression engines love E85,
JET ACCORDINGLY!
Carburetors work great for me.
Carbs work great for me too.
My 1967 ford ltd 390 4bbl dual exhaust factory equiped that way(bone stock)did not like this ethanol water'ed down garbage they call gas even back in the 90's With 93 octane it knocked pinged and rattled. People don't understand for the most part that this ethanol mix crap and carburetors do not like each other even the newest over the counter holly's edelbrocks etc. The rubber aka soft parts will eventually suffer and lots of carburetors i have torn down will have corrosion/white powder forming stopping up jets. Carburetor's are vented so oxygen mixes with standing fuel causes the issues if left sitting for long periods of time. Efi systems are for the most part is a sealed system and you hardly ever see any concerns there. Ethanol free gas that you may encounter at your gas station may not be totally ethanol free and this happens a lot folks. There's not many real carburetor mechanics left we are dying off, and my health is failing. Where i set ignition poings by eye, and set timing by ear well that don't come as easy as it used to. Great article.
I think when you did your research on tax per gallon by states, I think you didn't go down to the states starting in "W's". Because I live in Washington state and it seems to me we have been known to have the high's gas tax for many years. Maybe I'm wrong but some how it doesn't make me feel better. Oh did I tell yea we don't have state income tax. So I guest that makes up for it.
Baytobin ? Maybe leonardo du vinny?😂
VP Octanium raises octane 8 full numbers 91-99 all the others raise points 91 to 91.x a waste of time and $. VP is the only additive that raises numbers.
TORCO also raises 91 up to 100+ depending.
$$$$$$
Check out Boostane Professional. Add I ounce at around $1 to one gallon of 93 octane to make one gallon of 100 octane, plus its o2 & cat convertor safe.
I have a 67 f100 with a 390 what should I be running should I be running lead additive
Not to say that you have to, just saying that it might be a good idea if you don't daily Drive the vehicle. I might even look at running premium in there every once in awhile just to see what it does for the vehicle.
@@AutoRestoMod it's a old hot red truck I only drive it a few times a month thanks for the information
I love my old car, forget this new crap out there.
I thought this guy was gonna speak kindly of lead in gasoline for a second 😂. It's literally the worst ecological disater in the history of humanity.
Oh no. Lead is bad.
what is going on with his elbows?
I have bursitis and some osteoarthritis. It's not any fun I do not recommend.
what happened to that guy's elbows!?
You don't know what octane does.
You're right. I'm pretty sure it's unicorn farts right? Since you obviously do know what it does, why don't you enlighten us?
ATM is building my e85 carb.
I'm switching over to a 22-gallon tank. I have multiple stations near me that sell good e85. I have a back-up carb for premium fuel if I ever decide to take a longer road trip and can't get e85.
My friend's new Chevy pickup drops from 17 mpg on E10 to 11 mpg on E85.
Yes I'm aware that E85 has a broad range of E depending...
That's why these multi fuel vehicles sense how much E is actually in the fuel.
BTW, E10 reduces mileage about 6 % based on BTU content, compared to ZERO E gas.
I've tested several cars under specific conditions and 6% is confirmed.
Buying ZERO-E is not cost effective for mileage.
Like 80- 95 cents per gallon more for ZERO-E.