Is being trans a social fad among teenagers?
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
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Should transgender teens transition? This rather personal question occupies a prominent place in the American culture war. One the one side you have people claiming that it’s a socially contagious fad among the brainwashed woke who want to mutilate your innocent children. On the other side there are those saying that it’s saving the lives of minorities who’ve been forced to stay in the closet for too long. And then there are normal people, like you and I, who think both sides are crazy and could someone please summarise the facts in simple words, which is what I’m here for.
Clarification to what I say at 5:00: That's the definition of gender dysphoria for children (as I said).
At 7:25 the number which I say (25 million) referred only to the age group 12-17, whereas the study that I previously talked about was for the age group 6-17. The total number of children age 6-17 is approximately 50 million, hence the correction on the screen. Sorry for the confusion!
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Many thanks to Jordi Busqué for helping with this video jordibusque.com/
00:00 Intro
00:58 Sex and Gender
11:05 Gender Affirming Care
22:25 The Left-Hander Argument
23:48 Summary
25:28 Protect your Privacy with NordVPN
#science - Наука та технологія
As a trans person, I can say for a fact that the worst part of this "culture war" is that we can't talk freely about the complexities, and that the underlying compassion for individuals themselves is utterly lost. The gender critical campaigns have reduced things down so far that it's now not about how do we appropriately give support to people, but instead about basic rights to personal freedom and being able to participate within society. Faced with extreme threats to survival, it is normal for humans to drop nuance, and so those opposed to trans people get to say "look at those crazy trans people, ignoring science/safety/etc". And there's strong history of trans people strawmen being created by GCs and widely publicised as real, further stoking hatred.
Trans people want to talk about things seriously and openly. We've always existed, and don't pose any kind of new danger to anyone - indeed, many of the gender critical arguments are misogynistic in basis ("protecting innocent girls"), and there's a documented rise in transphobia and of cis women getting harassed for "not looking feminine enough to be a real woman".
Core to Sabine's argument is that this is an area of science & healthcare, and not something for petty fights, political wins, and media sensationalism. And frankly, most trans people absolutely agree - we just want to go about our lives with the same dignity as anyone else.
(and that's not to say that trans people and are supporters have always been perfectly ethical and above board. But when you're faced with threats of violence and literal, documented on video, desires to be eliminated from society.... Reacting with anger is normal)
And once again, despite your succinct, hypocritical addendum feigning to recognize some wrong doings (how lightly you adress the many lives ruined by "your side" ) you served us the story that trans people and their allies can do no wrong and that everybody critical of the trans community (allies, advocates and lobbyists) are the problem.
Clearly, YOU are .
You can not plead that for everything to be good and dandy, people who criticize many things happening in this matter should just SHUT UP . That is exactly what you do. You are not a voice of reason or neutrality : you are exactly the kind of people we fight
Thank you .
Her argument is awful though. Basically seems like the only way she'd be in favour of PB would be if there's a double blind study demonstrating reduction in suicidality. But you shouldn't have to be suicidal to get to transition
reactionaries don't have any capacity to think anyway
Like so many things in the US, this is not a question for politicians or the general public. It's a question for scientists and medical professionals. I am happy that more and more people feel safe about talking to their doctors and/or families about their feelings on their own gender. This is real progress. But the only government entity that should be involved is the FDA who test drug safety and the entity that regulates therapies/surgeries and their practitioners.
Regardless of the science, can we just be kind to each other? Asking for a friend. She’s not here to ask anymore.
This post needs to be pinned, I couldn't agree more.
you would think that the people hiding behind their "religion of peace and love" would look to compassion first.
I'm sorry for your loss. Truly.
Here, here and sorry for your loss
People try to be nice and don't warn about the troubles you'll have going trans. Then, reality can smack people real hard when they go for it.
Being nice is important, but it's important not to lie or mislead people about future issues as well.
“If you want to be a girl, you join the physics club!” 😂 I love this
Yes, me too! I was one of those girls who loved physics and math and would have joined the club if there was a club to join 😊📡
For me it's the drama club, of all the performers at our school's last play, I was the only performer assigned male at birth from the school.
"It Takes All Kinds" is what my mother used to say when asked about people who spoke/acted/behaved differently. The beauty of this line is that it encourages, even insists on tolerance but doesn't require that you actually understand every divergent branch of humanity. Sure, its important to try but its OK not to as long as you are tolerant and respectful.
My nana used to say this too
@@tracy9610 Bless your sweet Nana too! Her wisdom is worth touting..
It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Seriously, what happened to this phrase?
I mean the phrase seemed to always be used to refer to personalities, not states of being, and with ideologies running hot it's hard to anyone to accept the other side.
Beautifully said ❤️
The problem is we used to have snowstorms and high winds to knock off the weak and defective branches. Not so much anymore.
"if you want to be a girl you join the physics club" GODDAMN she is dropping bombs just because she can
Yes, well done.
Can anyone explain this joke? I don't get it - are there more girls in the physics club than boys?
I know a good number of trans femme physicists, so as part of social transition? Yeah, checks out.
(And if you drop out of physics into computer science, as I did? There's even more trans femmes in computer science.)
@@peacefroglorax875 Well, I am a physics teacher working in China / Kazakhstan. In my experience, boys are assumed to be better at physics than girls (even by some local teachers) and yet the girls either equal or frequently out do the boys.
@@peacefroglorax875 she is a girl and joined the physics club. It's a not so subtle suggestion for more girls in physics, a male dominated field.
In the Netherlands the ratio of girls and boys waiting for gender affirming care seems to have balanced out again. In any case, the requirements in the Netherlands to receive this care are pretty strict, it is not a procedure you can just get on a whim. Also people are closely monitored both before and after transition to check their well-being and see if any mistakes have been made in the assessment. Ultimately it is about people actually transitioning not people that may entertain the thought for a while.
That is combining compassion and common sense. Something you will never see in much of thewhere Jebus holds sway.
Google 'New "20-year" Study from Amsterdam's VUmc Youth Gender Clinic: A Critical Analysis'. Follow-ups have been lacking.
@@hifibrony Haha agreed, the kind of people who believe in an imaginary sky daddy are sad gullible fishes indeed.
@@powdergate yes, it's far more sane to believe men and women can turn into each other...
@@joejones9520 I don't believe in either. Why, do you think there's an imaginary sky daddy sitting out in space carefully watching what we little humans do on our dirt marble?
In my experience, transgender women tend to be less likely to come out due to societal pressures. They tend to pass less frequently and are more strongly argued against in the media's eye. Most trans arguments in the media seem to feature transwomen and women's spaces whereas the transmen side is less critiqued in the same way. This may offput transwomen from coming out in fear of social stigma
Excuse me how is it possible that a person born of a specific sex can change his or her sex simply because of "feelings". Sex and gender are binary. Don't buy into the lies being pushed by a humanistic agenda
thats probably cause of transwomen in sports
@@KostasG-nt9pe but what’s ur take on that
@@Kj_002 on what I said or on what you said?
@@Kj_002 If you're going out for a game of pickup basketball, nobody cares.
But if you are a biological male, you have inherent physical attributes that are far less probabilistically likely in a biological female. So, it is categorically unfair that a biological male be allowed to compete and have an unfair advantage to biological females.
To elaborate on this intuition of fairness, let me give you an example:
We see it as fair to have a biological advantage, as long as you are competing within a group that we humans intuitively see as fair.
Heights of kids of a given age, for instance, are normally distributed. There may be a kid who's much taller and stronger than their peer. Yet, in a competition like a race, they are matched up against each other. We would find that fair.
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However, we would find it unfair if a kid that was 18 came to compete with kids that were 12 years old in a race.
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Why? Because the distribution of traits of 18 year olds give them an unfair biological advantage over what is possible for 12 year olds.
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In this same exact manner, there is a categorical difference between the normal distributions of men's traits and women's traits. A 99th percentile woman for instance, is 5'10. It's an extremely rare biological gift. That means only 1 in 100 women will be that tall or taller.
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When you compare that to men, that only puts you in the 50th percentile. That means that super rare trait for a woman is grossly overshadowed by the heights men can have. It's an inherent biological difference that is fundamentally and irreconcilably unfair. So a man going into women's competitions is equivalent to the 18 year old competing with 12 year olds. Even if the 18 year old has been blocking their hormones and injecting 12 year old hormones. There are attributes that are going to be different between the competitors that give an unfair advantage to the 18 year old.
I'm a little late to the game here as i just saw this video. One important factor that was completely ignored when discussing the psychological satisfaction of recipients of treatment is the fact that systemic hatred of trans people is a common thread before, during, and after treatment. Of course someone is going to be depressed if they are constantly inundated by an endless barrage of hate! As a trans woman who transitioned 20 years ago i can definitively say that transitioning made me happier and more satisfied with my life but the world's hatred continues to drag me down.
they only reason lots of people hate you is because you think i should stop referring to women as woman and men as men you lot invented cis male and cis female ; did you know the word cis isnt actually a real word its only recentl been added to dictionaries ; the world does not need to altert its language to suit your gender if you are happy to be trans good on you
Thank you, I was hoping someone would point this out. Also trans feminine people are more stigmatized and more likely to be victims of violence than trans masculine people, so that’s going to affect the number of people who feel safe coming out of the closet and can even keep people fully repressed to themselves. To be clear, I’m certainly not saying trans masc people have it easy! This is a dangerous world for all trans people right now.
You're correct that hatred is unfortunately a common thread before and after treatment...but that's also not entirely relevant to what's being measured, in a very technical sense. See, if you measure the effect of a treatment, and there's another phenomenon going on in the background throughout, then you should still be able to measure the effect of that treatment.
For instance, if it's very warm out and I turn on the AC, it should still have an effect that can be measured (unless the AC is not working).
@@CamustangYour reasoning is flawed - you’re assuming the external factor remains constant before and after. Taking your analogy, suppose that after turning on the AC, global temperatures also rose by 40 degrees. Then, one might erroneously deduce that the AC doesn’t cool anything down.
I have real empathy for people who feel they got the wrong body parts. If I was born with a female body, retaining everything else I know about myself as a red blooded American man, I don’t know if I could deal with it. Especially when family and society just thinks your crazy, and when surgery is risky, and kids will bully you on top of your already difficult circumstances. I’m sure there are fakers, some people fake cancer. But nobody bullies you when you say you have stage four melanoma.
With toxic society, people with stage four melanoma are likely to encounter someone who'll delight in making them unhappier
Actually, as a trans person, I view the saying "born in the wrong body" as more of a metaphoric descriptor that attempts to convey to cis people the experience of what it's like to be trans living in cis-normative society. Many trans people say that they do not consider themselves as being in a "wrong body," but rather assert that their body belongs to them and that they ought to have the right to make of their body what they wish. Besides, many cis people do just that already. I myself do not say that I was born in the wrong body, but say that I was born into a wrong society that does not have space for me.
"If I was born with a female body, retaining everything else I know about myself as a red blooded American man, I don’t know if I could deal with it."
What do you mean with "if I could deal with it"? Deal with what?
Personally, I find it hard to imagine me living my life any different, no matter if I had male or female bodyparts. Except of course for the fact that women are just generally treated worse/differently, but that's entirely an issue with society and not with me or my body and I would very much dislike the idea of modifying my body just to fit in with the part of society that I'm interested in (I mean I would refuse to be put into a category).
@@amyashlyn9293 as one of them cis people myself, I like your framing. And that is what got me fully 100% on board being a trans ally. Personal Bodily Autonomy. And that includes the mind, obviously. ANY argument against PBA strikes me as fundamentally authoritarian. It's why despite getting the Covid vax myself, I don't think anyone should be made to get it. And why I'm pro choice in every single respect. Prioritizing PBA may cause some few societal problems, but we should learn to accept and mitigate that, rather than chipping away at PBA.
@@avedic Thank you 💗
I’m sure this topic won’t be controversial at all. Good luck, anyone venturing into the comments!
In science it is not that controversial. Only primitives make it controversial, but a science show is not really for them.
If this video makes you upset, then you need to reconsider your relation to science and facts.
@@juzoli I’m not sure calling people with any(!) opinion on the topic that thinks it’s not entirely unemotional or thinks it’s complicated a “primitive” is something I’ll ever agree with.
Scientific facts are also just a way to (in a slightly more formal manner) convince each other of opinions. Philosophy Tube has some great videos about that.
This isn’t to say that there is no consensus on these topics, but “scientific facts” are often not as clear, because they need to be convincing, and people can be convinced of the wrong thing.
In other words, get off your high horse, I guess?
@@Fs3i It is primitive, because most people use these arguments explicitly to insult and hurt other people, often for political gains.
Sure some has intelligent opinions about it, but they are rarely that loud. Most people on the internet who are screaming “there are only 2 genders, the rest is mental illness” are in fact primitive people, who just want to hurt others.
@@juzoli There's no need to be smug. It only impugns any point you're *trying* to make.
@@juzoli you shouldnt have been so mean now they will stick to their biases, attack you as a person because it's easier (like the 2 people above me) and keep being wrong ! Very counterproductive imho
I am glad many comments have been made here, especially from people who have lived these experiences, as to the many, many confounding factors which I feel were not included in Sabine's presented analysis. Anything even approaching the societal, let alone socially constructed itself, is going to have multitude intersections to account for, any of which will be received by different people in different ways. As briefly chortled, correlation is not causation, and underwhelming results of treatments cannot be expected to be comprehensive of what pressures are at play. As mentioned, at the very least, these treatments on whole reduce harm, are one less thing to be as worried over, and I feel that release of pressure is worth erring on the side of proactivity, until such time as it would ever be found that these treatments would be significant detriments.
One thing that I've heard about the case of Sweden "rolling back" is that the country has been at the forefront of gender-affirming care with much easier access to treatments, including surgery for younger people, than most other places in the world.
That was from a documentary on the "rollback" on French TV a year or two ago, a state owned channel if I remember correctly (seen as left-leaning if anyone wonders why it would matter).
What I gathered is that after some highly mediatized cases of people regretting their decisions to switch genders with medical assistance at a younger age there has been a backlash against somewhat zealous use of these therapies, but it's still rather more accessible and common than in many other western countries.
I wanted to say this because in the video it seems like the countries who go back on these treatments may have completely changed their course but in my understanding and memory of it it's more of a case of three steps forward and one step back.
Yes, that rollback doesn't seem sincere or logical. I'm sure they're determined to proceed with the genocide.
@@williammkydde Sure grandpa, keep using the genocide word nonchalantly. That's how you get people to take you seriously. 🤡
@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 Why does the G word trigger you so badly, son? Depriving a whole generation of healthy children of the possibility ever to procreate is genocide indeed. Especially when a very certain racial/cultural group is targeted. If you're one of those who promote it, you're a criminal. If you're indifferent, you clearly need to start thinking. It may be difficult initially, without a habit.
@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 A persistent government policy aimed at depriving children of any possibility to reproduce is genocide. To genocide A people, you don't need to gas it You may simply prevent its next generation from being born. simple as.
I'm a trans guy who transitioned as an adult (18): I've been out and living as a guy for 3 years now and have been on hrt for a few months. I read through many of the other comments, and I'd like to add on to them and address a topic I saw a bit underepresented: the medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria. The modern sociological consensus is that you do NOT need to have dysphoria to be trans, and you may have dysphoria about a body part but that doesn't necessarily indicate you are trans. Dysphoria is a mental reaction to feeling a discrepancy between how your body is and how you expect it to be/feel like it should be. Since everyone processes certain traumas differently, not every trans person actually experiences dysphoria to the same level.
At the same time, treating dysphoria doesn't actually treat depression, anxiety, or any other mental health problem an individual could've developed due to the trauma of being trans. Going to a therapist and getting treated for those is just as crucial as receiving medical transition care...unfortunately many trans people I know assumed all their problems would disappear upon starting hrt, and although they are happy with their changes, hormones obviously don't make depression go away. So even just from my experience and from extensive talks with my psychiatrist, I am not at all surprised that studies found that mental health of patients medically transitioning did not significantly improve, because medical transition is not a "cure to depression", it just helps to alleviate dysphoria and make someone feel more comfortable in society.
I should note here that I don't study medicine, and I think we should leave it up to medical professionals and the patient to thoroughly evaluate the best course of care for each individual. I understand how someone not diagnosed with dysphoria wanting to medically transition can be a difficult situation, and I am not smart enough in this topic to resolve such issues. I advocate strongly for thorough medical evaluation before commiting to any sort of gender care, but I don't think it is as simple as "HRT is a perfect solution" or "HRT is bad for everyone". I really do think this should be evaluated on a person-to-person basis and best left up to the psychiatrist, GP, and the patient without government intervention (anymore than the government intervenes in other medical issues, that is)
May I ask, do you know what it means to be trans without the disphoria?
Oh my god the mental gymnastics required to say that the depression and anxiety many of these people experience is a RESULT of being 'trans' is next level. You are truly full of koolaid.
Having seen other UA-camrs commenting on trans issues, I came away with the impression that many medical professionals, including GPs, have little or no relevant training and are only slightly more informed than the general public. As such, the argument "leave it to GPs" is flawed until their lack of training is addressed. I wouldn't be surprised if similar issues exist in other groups of medical professionals, such as psychiatrists.
@@ppike__ I can tell you if you want me to.
You just do not feel that you should change your body to conform to the biological standard of a particular sex. If I have breasts and feel like a man, that does not make me a woman, my behaviour does.
Gender is an experience, it is qualia. Disforia is a sintoma, anxiety for being perceived by other people in a way you are not that does not manifest in some people.
@@EvanWells1 and how many trans people have you heard of? Those who have not detransitioned.
My scepticism of the "they're doing it because it's popular" doesn't come from any "agenda" but as a gay man in my fifties I've heard it all before about me. People haven't let go of the "it's a choice" libel still as if anyone would choose to have every Tom Dick and Harry know better than you what you are going through.
I have known 2 trans people and both transitioned as adults.
She's saying that a person has an agenda if they claim that 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘰𝘯𝘦 of two is taking place.
Many people use it as a cover for other things, but just flat out denying it as an absolute nonsense, like some people online do, is also disingenuous.
Actually, the argument with transgender often goes that gender is a choice, and the gender 'assigned at birth' may not matter. It was always puzzling for me how it was markedly different with the case of gay rights, when society concluded that there is no choice whatsover, and even forbade in law attempts to convert gay people
I'm in my 30s and transitioning, but I still question if it's social contagion. 😂😂 I was cross dressing a long time before I learned about trans though, so it can't be 100% social contagion for me. I don't know if I would have started this journey had I not met trans people who identified me as trans. In any case, I'm happy with the results.
The difference between then and now though is social media.
11:30 "If you want to be a girl, you join the physics club." Ha! Ha! I love you, Sabine!
She's a treasure 😊
NO WAY NOOO omg i cant; learning jokes aren't usually this fun to me, but 11:30 -oh boy
If you want to be transgender, you join the socialist club.
I remember socialist activists in the 1990s dressing as females and trying to popularize this ''movement.' I remember an International Socialist Organization open meeting where an overly excited sodomy advocate was taken aside by the leadership, who explained that this was ''in the pipeline' but that they were not ready for it yet.
Its not hard to figure out what's going on.
Great video Sabine. Small observation. When I was a child, there was no common term to be used. So if I had known I was transgender when I was 5, I sure wouldn't know the word was transgender. That was the 60s. Today, we have a lot of kids able to better understand themselves, there isn't more of us, there is just more of us that understand what makes us uncomfortable.
you aren't fooling anyone lmao, bro is not 70-80 years old 🤣
No, there is more transgender people. At least more people claiming to be. And I am sure all of this gender confusion stuff is going to mess up a lot of vulnerable children. I have mental issues of my own though, and do not judge.
@@markschwartz9905 Well what I meant was our numbers didn't suddenly increase, we were always there, but many of us had no means to understand who we are. Most vulnerable children likely wouldn't be vulnerable if they had parents who were more understanding. Nothing says never should have become parents, like ditching a child, because they discover their son is their daughter.
Would be nice to compare the life satisfaction (over the lifetime) of those who received an early treatment and those who did it only later in life.
Early "treatment" aka ruining the development of a child?
You would have to care if people were happy with thier lives for that research to make a difference.
And to compare the life satisfaction of those who had any treatment or had no treatment, and to ask whether or not someone is happy with transitioning or if they would have rather not transitioned. These, I think are the most important questions and they seem to be left out completely, but for any other treatment these are common questions that are researched and we know exactly how many people who have had heart surgery are happy with their choice. One would expect this far simpler research that doesn't need a control group was done on trans kids/adults as well. And it is, but for some reason it's left out of this video.
There is a massive suicide rates corresponding with it.
@@anonymoususer3561 evidence suggest that going through the wrong puberty is incredibly harming to a child's development. that includes those who don't get an early treatment. If you actually cared about the health and well-being of children you would look at the evidence and the science, instead of what just makes you personally uncomfortable.
it makes perfect sense that puberty blockers wouldn't improve the mental health of the people on them. Puberty blockers aren't doing anything to make it better, they are just preveting things from getting worse. Which is also obvious when you take into account that the mental health of the people who were untreated declined, because for them the problem was getting worse.
100% on point. This is why I wish people would listen to public trans people more (e.g. Jessie Gender, Katy Montgomery, Abigail Thorn, etc.), because they've already reviewed all the studies and have compelling challenges to the assumptions which are being made based on these studies. Whereas I feel that even well-meaning cis people are way behind and need to catch up.
At 16:36 the paper actually mentions this, but she didn't comment on it
yeah the question isn't whether puberty blockers on their own improve mental health, but if it is better than the alternative of going through a dysphoric puberty. Every trans person I've heard comment on this has said that the latter is extremely traumatizing. Then there's the fact that it makes transition later on much harder and more expensive
@@Jasper_the_Cat Have they reviewed all the studies? How do you know?
how is preventing anything from getting worst? many people that claim to have dysphoria later get better in life without any medications. This evidence and the evidence that medications changes nothing when it comes to the health of their mental states shows that there is no correlation between taking this meds and helping people that call themselves trans. You are literally trying to prove something that science has proven to be false. Sure this studies can be incomplete and have the wrong conclusion, but the probability is much higher that you are wrong than it is that the studies are all wrong. And until we have evidence that completely disproves this we have to accept this as the truth, that's how science works. You don't change a conclusion just because you want and because the studies could be flawd, you have to have data proving that the studies are wrong and be data that is stronger than the data we have now.
It's like being taught to wear your shoes on the wrong feet. Everyone tells you to do as they say, but it hurts too much.
You're a man.
Also, changing them to be more comfortable results in you being ostracized.
@@theothertonydutch This is the stupidest analogy I've ever seen.
This video didn't age very well. A new study dropped that shows the vast majority of children who complain of gender dysphoria grow out of it.
@@beestingza They are under compulsion to find excuses for their abuse, they don't hold allegiance to the truth, only their abusive behavior. Imagine a gambler, he will make all kinds of crazy excuses as well, like that 99% of gamblers quit before hitting it big.
Late transitioner at 40+ here: you'll just make your kids life miserable by not accepting them.
I have a young relative who insisted on transitioning; I think their parents took the best route, they let them use whatever pronoun or name they wanted; but to start medical transition they had to attend therapy to manage their depression and anxiety.
Within a year they decided to keep the new name and pronoun, but hold off on the medical transition for now.
I think accepting and understanding had a huge impact on their mental health, and letting them know they don't have to confirm into traditional gender roles had a huge impact.
This! I think we forget there can be so much nuance in this discussion and what really matters is people knowing it’s case by case, ensuring people have access to accurate information and can make informed consent.
This would work as general advice if many therapists weren’t captured by the anti-science ideology that is pushing for everyone to transition.
So to you being stuck in the body they were born in, and to have the secondary sexual characteristics forced on them is the "right choice?" You must surely see that this can only be because you believe it is a "fad."
A choice about which body they develop IS being made. Irrevocavle choices that can't be mended. If you are wrong, and it isn't a fad, then they will now live in the wrong body forever.
Yes, this is generally what happens. People aren't out there making snap decisions and getting transed instantly.
@@GigiofGigi "accurate information" being the kind they get when it is too late, and they already have breasts or a deep voice. Convenient. None of you have the first clue what you are talking about.
"Have you ever seen a normal human? I haven't." Thank goodness for you. ❤
Join the military
... on the other hand, I thought the joke was a little undermining. "Normal human behavior" is a thing we can define, even if the sum total of all "normal human behavior" describes the behavior of no individual human.
For instance, there's a long history of people killing each other. That kind of behavior could be included in "normal" or "not normal" depending on what is meant by the definition. I wouldn't joke about it, but really address the definition and take it seriously. Otherwise we complacently propagate confusion and increase the amount of miscommunication and misunderstanding.
@@bepitan Having two arms and two legs is above the average amount of legs and arms that average humans have.
@@jimbrookhyser "normal" is a statistical parameter extracted from a given sample of individuals.
@@jimbrookhyser it's also a little undermined by sabine's own usage right at the beginning of the video, in which she (jokingly? i don't know...) refers to "normal" people whom, apparently, think right-wing bigotry and accepting trans people as people whose lives are worth saving are comparably "crazy" points of view... i believe she is being glib rather than serious myself, but the centrist posturing is obnoxious
I am trans and I think that going through puberty clears up the uncertainty about ones gender for a lot of people so by halting puberty you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy. The problem is that we don't know who is "really" trans and who isn't so it doesn't matter what you do you will cause harm to someone.
And that’s exactly why everyone should be able to carve out their own paths with care and informed support regardless of where they go.
I heard somewhere that Sabine was transphobic and came here to watch the video and I can't understand that accusation at all. This is incredibly level-headed.
Exactly
Wait.... Why are references exclusive to patreon ??? Shouldn't it be under the description and not under paywall or am i the crazy one here ?????
Kinda grifty. Is she an educator or a clout chaser?
@@wcookiv an uneducator and a grifter
Huh, yeah I didn’t notice that but I don’t think that’s a good look. Granted, there are mentions and images of papers, but you’re right I’d expect open references (script is kinda meh). Still think she’s a good educator though, unlike some other commenters that just want to leap to an attack and forgot the whole “nuance” thing
Edit: not OP
Yeah
I doubt she said anything truthful
She completely misrepresented the studies, made false equivalence and strawman logical fallacies. My was a big fan up until this appalling video. It's one thing to have an opinion I disagree with, it's another to completely misrepresent the science and argument to prop up that opinion.
I think regarding the change in proportion of FTM vs MTF binary transgender people, it's important to note that the social pressures on trans people of these genders are not equal. Trans men who underwent female puberty, for example, have a lot easier time passing as male after hormone therapy than trans men in similar circumstances do passing as women. And much of the culture war in America specifically latches onto the idea that trans women are just men in dresses hoping to assault cis women and 'trick' heterosexual men. Trans men are far more invisible- there's less violence at risk for living as a trans man at the moment.
This is very true, trans men are seen as men with thin beards after HRT, and as victims of "woke gender ideology" before they fully pass, while trans women are seen as creepy failures of men or enthusiastic predators looking for an excuse to get into women's spaces. It's way safer to be the former.
Also she seems to just assume that the rates should be roughly equal, and the fact that they aren't somehow disqualifies certain people from really being trans even though this is backed up by literally nothing ever
@@sethdrake7551 Does she? She stated that the rates, up to a certain point, _had been_ roughly equal. In fact, the stats I vaguely remember from ~10 years ago is _more_ MtF than FtM people (by a noticeable amount, like 2:1 or something). I don't see her stating that this disqualifies anyone, but merely asking why this relatively sudden shift is happening. Asking a question is not pushing an agenda in either direction, and I'd say the video has generally been pro-trans.
As long as you can stay stealth, anyway. What happened to Brandon Teena to this day makes me fuckin sick.
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As the parent of a chromosomaly intersex child, I really wish we could just teach our children to accept their whole selves without worrying so much about who is a boy or girl and whether their body matches a definition of either. While your anatomy may define your biological sex and increase the odds of certain personality traits, it doesn't have to define who you are. My child is who they are and their anatomy isn't at odds with the reality of what they will grow to view as their identity. There is nothing wrong with either their feelings on the subject, or with their body.
I agree, my hope is that people can love the skin they’re in. We don’t really get a choice, so it’s healthier to accept our biology. Hard when kids are taught they can be whatever they want.
@@eeeatenit's not possible many times to just accept where you are, neither is it necessarily healthy, you should fight against your circumstances, not take it like a bitch.
@@ayushsharma8804 no idea what you're trying to say
@@eeeatenSpoken by someone who has never once felt gender dysphagia.
I would love it if instead you could just accept people get to choose to what they do with their bodies.
@@skyisreallyhigh3333 gender dysphagia you say? i find that hard to swallow. i assume you mean dysphoria. no i have not felt gender dysphoria, because i understand that gender doesn't really mean that much and no matter how i feeeeel my sex is based on my biology. i do know a few women who felt gender dysphoria strongly as teens, mostly because they felt strong and brave, and they felt society's expectations of young women didn't really match how they felt - they weren't girly girls so at the time identified as tom-boys. now they are confident strong adult women they are VERY glad they didn't change their bodies, and that they weren't offered treatment because they may well have taken it. i also know a few trans women. they transitioned as adults, and are happier as women than they were as men - great, right? power to them. the point is this is not a decision for kids to make when they are growing, changing and confused. it's too easy to throw medical treatment at a problem that is usually psychological. we used to teach kids to love who they are, now we tell them they can be whatever they choose. sounds great, rarely works.
As per Sabine's presentation, one thing is clear. There is clearly an dearth of reliable and significant scientific and psychological studies that can offer definitive insight, conclusions or recommendations. This should especially be heeded with considered caution in the case of young children and their parents assenting to transitions. Adults, though also lacking the benefit credible, in-depth studies, obviously have free rein to make such will decisions for themselves. It is a very sensitive, difficult and challenging subject of our society's epoch and will require more time to land on terra firma. We must, in the interim, be respectful, patient and tolerant.
We can't prove that there is no God or other sky daddy who created the universe. Neither can i.e. Christians prove that there is one.
Should Christians be allowed to force atheists to affirm their god? Is it disrespectful for an atheist not to do so?
Why should a T gender person have the right to demand affirmation of their unproven self-belief?
Where is the evidence for humans having an "internal sense of being female, male or something else." rather than just a self-belief akin to a religious belief.
Humans have been demonstrably shown to have incorrect feelings as well as beliefs about their physical existence - why should we treat this differently?
Where is the evidence that an "internal sense of being something else" can exist. How is that different from a person claiming to see a color that no other can see. How would we prove that? Why assume that they are right about something no one can confirm, even if that something is their own nature? Why do we shift the burden of proof for such a positive claim?
This all seems highly unscientific to me.
I speak as a trans woman who transitioned at my late 20’s in Brazil. And I did it despite the statistics pointing Brazil as the most violent country towards trans women, we call it trans-feminicide, often with regards of cruelty and excess violence. I had always been like this, but the fear was part of my social structure. Gender dysphoria is real, and it can go on for a lifetime, I didn’t know what it was but the angst was always there lurking from the shadows, I studied psychology, I traveled, moved around, did therapy for years getting to know myself and building the courage to take the first steps towards transition, it’s been 4 years, I feel way much better about myself, despite the cultural and societal consequences. I believe it would have been much better if I could have transitioned in my late teens, I hope more studies can be taken and we have it scientifically right, so young trans people can have a better life.
you are very brave, and honnest with yourself. i respect that and wish you all the best out there in your life, i hope you may be safe, in good health and find happines.
@@GDuff123 This is a stupid, hateful comment.
I admire for choosing to do what's right for you despite the hostile environment. Please stay safe.
@@GDuff123 We have a real incellectual genius here.
@@GDuff123 why?
".....have you ever seen a normal person? I haven't." Well said Sabine.
Yeah. Because her opinion is a fact? A normal person who thinks they are born into the wrong body.. wow, how ironic considering that is condoning gnostic mysticism.
It is a medical condition and mental disorder. It isn't a metaphysical phenomenon. The "experts" don't even know the cause, but less grey matter in their orbitofrontal cortex is a factor. Evidence suggests that endocrine disruptors in the environment are a leading cause for gender dysphoria. Giving puberty blockers to pre pubescent children and surgeries is not common sense. Instead of chopping off someone's penis maybe we should look into reducing environmental pollution. The ignorance of humanity is maddening. You're a bunch of imbeciles. It has to do with hormone disruption during gestation, and this is exactly why gender dysphoria affects men more than women. Yeah, you all really understand "science." There is nothing wrong with their body, and no one is born in the wrong body. Talk about believing in gnostic mysticism.
A 'normal' person is a diluted crackpot.
@@ADUAquascaping Sabine was asking a rhetorical question, whether you can even define normality in the strictest sense. It's not merely her opinion, it is a fact of life you learn along the way. No one, nothing, that actually exists is "normal". Normality is however you define it, an abstract, arbitrary, subjective, a certain number of standard deviations from the statistical mean. Since you have a problem with gnostic mysticism, i'm assuming (possibly wrongly) that you deem yourself 'Christian'. Do you truly think you your faith is "normal" compared to the rest of humanity? To the rest of Christiandom? You could argue whether something is "morally right or wrong" according to your faith, whether God likes this and that, but anyone who has done some introspection and mingled with actual people would know that normality is undefinable. And that we each struggle with our personal sins. That is what she is saying here.
That's because 'normal' is highly culturally defined. Example: Lived in many countries overseas. One time (mid-80s), in Kenya, a few of us Americans were sitting in chairs, listening to Judy Collins and the like (on cassette tapes), drinking some wine watching an absolutely glorious African sunset. The Kenyans thought it somewhat strange, waste of time. We, 'Magnificent, beautiful!' (and it was!) they ... 'Don't get it'. Best example of what is 'normal'behavior that I have ever heard.
I don’t mean to be insensitive, but the numbers are so low that I’m confused as to why the topic is even an issue being talked about at all. It just sounds like another poor minority group is being exploited for political reasons.
"And leave the toilet seat up" -lol
I'm actually a rare form of male that pees sitting down. I hate splashage.
ive always had cats so i keep the seat down or get ready to find what looks like a giant rat trying to jump out the toilet
Bad news buddy, look UNDER the seat. Splash still happens
Puberty blockers not "improving" the state of affairs is rather expected, when you account for the previously reported discomfort with existing gendered characteristics. What they do is prevent things from getting worse. As you may image, for a trans person to go through the puberty that doesn't fit their gender, well it could be nightmarish. So they avoid that, therefore them 'not working' is them actually working, by producing exactly the intended result (keeping things at relatively the same level and not letting them worsen).
Weill put. I initially agree with your hypothesis. This is why we do longer term studies with controls. None of that has happened yet.
WRONG. Puberty blockers actually make anxiety and depression worse, and exacerbate all conditions by threatening development. That's why so many countries are stopping their use in children.
Nah, they cause lifelong dysfunction.
But there is no evidence they would get worse if you didn't give them the treatment, that's the freaking point.
@@Google_Censored_Commenter there is tons of evedince. Just ask ANY trans person who went to a puberty they didn't want to what that felt like, and if they would have prefeered an alternative...
Also she literally cites a study in her video that clearly makes this point: one group of trans kids who got blockers and a control group of trans kids who didnt
The mental health of the kids on blockers didn't change much throughout the study,
The mental health of those in the control group who didnt get blockers fucking PLUMMETED as the years went on
This is a hell of a lot better than watching a bunch of stupid debates on this issue. Great work.
Still I would like a debate between a biologist, neuroscientist, psychiatrist and psychologist from both sides.
@@geha9450 Would be better to just have a board of scientists to discuss it rather than a "debate".
the idea that we can debate away this issue is mind boggling in the first place. The sheer amount of debates about this is insult to injury.
@@moth5799 yes but I want those peope who call themselves scientists and all they do is spread missinformation to be challenged by other scientists and call them out
@@ADUAquascaping Source? Do you have a paper on this?
I would be curious to know if those teenagers with gender dysphoria waited until they were adults to do any treatments would feel differently, perhaps decide against it, since this suggests there really is no data to show that it's actually beneficial to take puberty blockers and then hormone replacements. The brain continues maturing and fine-tuning itself well into your 20s. I think in Sweden, at least, that is the concern now.
Gender dysphoria is a horrific experience, I'm finally at the end and living how I want to now and I'm so freaking happy, it's like a weight off my shoulders, it's how I felt back when I was 10 before it all started
"The control group members who did not receive care had worse mental health outcomes and by the end there were only 7 people left in this group" - this is the problem with control group studies in this group. Who would put themselves into the control group? It would mean denying yourself and sticking withthat despite knowing an alternative exists
The ethics of control groups is incredibly complex, and can't be shrugged off. In many of these studies it's just not possible to have an untreated group.
You don't understand study design. In a double-blind randomised controlled trial (RCT), you don't know if you're taking the control or not. It's not a decision you make.
@@mikolmisol6258 True, but you know you could be, which could make people more reluctant to participate in the study in the first place. That seems like it would make it more likely that people less critically in need of treatment would participate.
This was falsely intepreted. There were only 7 people at the 12 Months mark in the control group, but you can see that on earlier timestamps control group was significantly bigger. This was actually inacurately presented by SH
Just because you think it's unethical doesn't make the existing data any stronger.
If you want things to change without stronger data, you're going to need to admit the argument is a cultural one and not a scientific one.
I'm a trans man from the UK who came out at 15 and started seeing a psychologist so he could refer me to a gender clinic. I had to fight a lot to get that referral, it came over 18 months later, then I was on the wait list at the gender clinic for about 1 year after that. Even then, I didn't get a prescription for hormones until I had just turned 19. So I started my transition as a teen, but I didn't medically transition until 19.
A lot of people think teens are just walking into the doctor's office and coming out with prescriptions. In the UK at least, it's far from that. It's a long, arduous process with lots of therapy and they try to 'prove' you're not trans which either makes you realise you aren't or it reinforces that you are. This made me very depressed at the time, feeling like I was not being heard or accepted, but at 23 now I can see they were doing that for my benefit so I didn't make a mistake transitioning.
I've personally known a handful of girls/women who came out as trans but then returned to identifying as female before medically transitioning, but no males doing this, so I wasn't surprised by the data showing increased numbers for females coming out as trans. We all know young girls often struggle with mental health and self-image issues, exacerabated by social media. Tiktok especially, because if you engage with one trans video, it will show you 10 more and you get sucked into a rabbit hole that can 'trick' you into thinking you're trans, when really you're just at a vulnerable point in your relationship with yourself.
I think, as you said, a lot of these studies are hard to draw strong conclusions from, I think in the next 10 years we will have a lot more concrete data. But will that be too late to show people trans people are normal people and prevent harmful legislature being introduced? I guess we will find out...
"A lot of people think teens are just walking into the doctor's office and coming out with prescriptions. In the UK at least, it's far from that."
And I don't think you're going to find much difference in other places from the UK. People who want to stoke fear have an incentive to give their listeners an erroneous impression that hormones are being handed out like candy, but as far as I can tell, this isn't the case anywhere.
I am glad, that you, as a affected person, don't assume, that just because for you it was the right thing to transition, it must be for everyone, who thinks he/she is trans.
Beeing a teenager is and has always been a time, where often one isn't comfortable in his/her body. The body is changing a lot, especially for women, who get the period, which is often combined with heavy discomfort (cramps etc.).
And it isn't only the body that is changing, the brain and hormones are as well. And who doesn't know trends like emo, goth, punk, etc. that were almost exclusevely teenager trends?
I don't care about someone who just dresses like the other gender, that doesn't do any harm and it can be reversed any time.
I want people that really have gender disphoria get the help they need, if it is helping them.
But we need to make sure, that those who just "think" they are trangender are protected from mistreatment.
The Tavistock and Portman scandal in the UK shows, that there are people, who are willing to sacrifice any morality, may it be for money, or for forcing a progressive agenda.
And the phrase "no parent would subject their child such a treatment without reason" is a sentence I wouldn't subscribe unconditionally:
There have been cases of parents (mostly mothers) who harmed their children willingly (Münchhausen-by-proxy-Syndrom), or there are parents who force their children into things, that are harmful for them (sometimes competetive sports, children beauty competitions, etc.).
@@mrchronos3374 it's literally right for 99% tho 🙄
@@aceg81 Please read about the Tavistock / Portland scandal in the UK, and then come back again...
All this is in my experience a common refrain among trans people I’ve talked to. XD
Would be better if more people on all sides of the issue listened. It’s hard to get HRT, _and_ that’s a good thing, not cruel. Getting it wrong means doing a hell of a lot of harm, possibly permanent, and can shave years off someone’s life. Hell of a high cost and some “allies” seem to want doctors to be as quick on the trigger as the anti-trans people say they are.
It’s ridiculous. :|
I was born in 1958. I wouldn't have told anyone that I was the wrong sex when I was a teenager for anything in the universe. I just kept my mouth shut and drank and took drugs, tried to unalive myself multiple times and wished I had the courage to do it right.
Abject misery was my life.
At the age of 35, in 1993, I was living in San Diego,(rather than North Carolina), and finally got the courage to come out and transition.
It was like coming alive. Soaring out of hell to take part in life....finally!
I never regretted it for a second.-weezi-🙏💖🙏🌄
May I ask why you thought you were the wrong sex? Was it because you did not conform to certain societal expectations? In contrast to intersex people, I have a hard time imagining that a biological man or woman can be "born into the wrong body". If men can show emotions and women can play soccer, and they can be attracted to the same sex, why is there a need to change one's gender? I thought the whole point was to get rid of these societal norms, not taking hormones and getting surgery to be able to do these things in a pre-specified gender role.
as a trans woman, for me and many other trans people i know, hormone therapy is an attempt to survive and not commit suicide more than anything else. It makes sense that mental health would not become much better, as many people socially transition at the same time as hrt, which is incredibly difficult. when i was more visibly transgender, i would frequently be called slurs, be stared at, and was ostracized because of it. hormone replacement therapy has helped me not be as noticeable, and makes life a little easier. but i still struggle with the way people see me because of my transition and life is by no means easy.
Are you sure you're just not confused and fooled yourself into thinking you're trans?
Thank you for sharing. Do you think that in an accepting society, HRT and surgery would not be as needed?
@@junkname9983are you sure i don't know more about your identity than you do??
The s**cide frequency of your demographic would be higher with or without hormones, 25% of people with GD also have ASD, and people with ASD already have a 10x higher s**cide rate than the general population. It also includes disproportionate sufferers of eating disorders, anxiety and depression. These are all preexisting conditions that are simply lumped in with GD to create the illusion that GD is causing all this distress, when it actually just co-exists with a boatloading of preexisting conditions.
@@awkymomo6954 i've been diagnosed with bulimia but it only started with the onset of gender dysphoria, i can't speak to the entire trans population but i used to want to kill myself and I don't want to as much anymore after receiving hormone therapy
I will never understand why people think that it's better for a trans person to be attacked until they "admit defeat" and "return to normal" instead of just making them feel comfortable in their own skin, even if the person trying to make them comfortable with who they are doesn't believe that the trans person is truly the gender they transition to.
Normal people with empathy do that. People whose minds are poisoned by disgust and hatred enjoy the cruelty they get to inflict that they think is excused by the target being a bad gross trans, it feeds their sense of righteousness.
because they want us to die. it's really that simple
If you have a teenager with several serious mental health comorbidities who is uncertain or inconsistent about being trans, then it's legitimate to ask whether or not prescribing puberty blockers and HRT is in their best interest. I think it's really unhealthy for the discourse the way that the moral question of whether we should support trans rights (obviously yes) gets conflated with the scientific question of when and how best to provide gender affirming care.
@@wfjhDUI That's what doctors are for. Keep politicians out of the process
@@wfjhDUI "prescribing puberty blockers and HRT is in their best interest." Isn't that whats supposed to be done between doctors and their patients? Alot of people seem to take Sabine and the doctors at their word of the anecdotal evidence about contagion, but then disregard a doctors place through a person's transitioning.
Mental health issues can stem from gender dysphoria and social stigma.
The factors that lie beneath the surface are very personal and are outside the purview of those not experiencing or sharing these struggles.
I am not sure how we ever got to the point where now transphobes can just pop out an idea that has no merit in the established science and now it has to be regarded as an actual issue.
16:00 this may be a dumb question, but wouldn’t you expect to see little change with puberty blockers? the point of taking them is to delay a change that might otherwise cause distress. (not getting worse) does not equate to (getting better.) otherwise thank you for a relatively balanced and in depth look at this stuff, it’s important.
Yes, that was a bit of a non sequitur.
i think no significant effect means compared to a control group of children with the same issues, that get a placebo or no drugs. I haven't read the study though.
Good eye!
i was thinking the same think and it was touched on again later in 'the control group who weren't treated got worse' . also the fact that in the discussion of mental health over time there was no mention that increasing queer-phobia is likely to cause a general decline in queer people's mental health which is going to skew all of the results of the very limited recent scientific literature.
thats why you need a control group (people who experience gender dysphoria (or feel they are transgender), but did not take puberty blockers), and then compare the results to the control group. the problem is that noone has properly conducted this. (that one paper had SEVEN people in the control group, when is should have been like 60 if i remember correctly)
Gender disphoria is just a concept of "I'm not willing to do what is expected from my gender in our society" and if people focus too much on that it can become a psychological disorder. I feel deeply sorry for all "trans people" who butchered their bodies in order to feel free form pressure by the society. I really have a problem about talking young people into that kind of destructive narrative of "you are not statisfied ? we have a medical solution ready for you it only costs $$$ and your ability to have kids." We really should isntead put emphasis of "you are awesome 100% like you were born and you have no obligation whatsoever because of your biological gender". Of course some people who irreservibly destroyed their original body in order to adhere their "vision" are pushing other people into the same misery and actively try to silence open discourse about this tragedy.
No. This is a ignorant view of gender dysphoria and trans people. I’m trans (mtf) and my transition has little to do with “trying to escape some gender role in society”.
For example, I’ve been on hrt for a while and still wear masculine clothes and have no desire to change that. I also still use he/him pronouns cause it’s easier atm. I might change that if I pass in the future. Sometimes now I’m mistake for a Tom boy.
Second, gender affirming care is not “butchering”. That clearly shows you have no knowledge on why gender affirming care is the standard for healthcare for trans patients.
Third, about the $$$. I don’t know about everywhere, but where I’m from, nearly all affirming care is free…
You thinking you just need to tell people you are “awesome” and that “you don’t need to change” is a viable solution is beyond ignorant on the topic.
Please stop talking about medical subjects you know nothing about, and speaking for a group who you are not affiliated with. It’s more damaging then you can imagine.
@@gingy3778 First of all its way more damaging to tell young people that its "gender affirming care" to have surgery or sterilizing horomone therapy because you are unhappy with your biological gender. Secondly yes, there are other reasons for people who want to "change" most of them are related to a sexual fetish or traumata related to a specific gender. You simply can't turn into a XX chromosome full functioning woman if you were born a XY chromosome man the technology can'T achieve that at all. The only thing you change is your appearance nothing else. There is no olbigation whatsoever that comes with a certain gender and you won't magically gain something by surgery or medics if you change your appearance thats a hard truth every trans people will learn sooner or later. There is absolutely nothing wrong with embracing and accepting your gender you were born with!
I am a right handed writer who started out as a left hander, nowadays enjoy practice writing back with the left and able to write with both hands equally well.
Have to agree that gender role change is a much more complex activity than switching back hands for tasks like writing and throwing a ball
Personally, HRT has made me feel great about my body and enjoy being alive and having sex. It didnt magically undo my depression, anxiety, and ADHD, but with my body disphoria conquered I have more time and energy to work through those. HRT has definitely saved my life, I might have just stopped eating, drinking, or sleeping after highschool and died of starvation if I didn't have this option. It was awful, and I'm so much happier now.
Ok i’m glad but I see people say the same thing about essential oils or about finding Jesus. “Jesus” doesn’t help anyone get over depression but sometimes the extra security blanket provided by religion does.
@@buddatobi No. Nobody is saying that.
@@buddatobi people do say similar things about essential oils. they dont make you grow breasts (among many other, like, extremely noticeable and real effects of hrt)
Same. HRT didn't cure my depression, anxiety, and ptsd, but it did give me the will to live and enough presence of mind that I could begin to address my mental health. It's a lot easier to work on yourself when you aren't drowning, and now I'm happier than I've ever been. Transitioning saved my life.
@@buddatobi Not in a double-blind clinical trial they don't
It seems odd to consider people who voluntarily stop puberty blockers as the control group for those who don't. If they stopped voluntarily, they likely decided that they don't need them, and thus are a poor proxy for those who want the blockers but can't get them. The difference is obviously gonna be smaller.
Shouldn't the control group be those without gender disphoria in the first place.
@@GhostEmblem uhh, no? because the population of the study is those with gender dysphoria.
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I think it'd be worthwhile to have two controls, those that are cis and those that want blockers but can't get them; this way you have more points of reference
They stopped them voluntarily likely because of the vast health complications that come with these irreversible drugs.
I just found your channel, and this is exactly what I was looking for! In a world with incredibly heavy and extreme subjectivity (in the sense that people tend to go to the extremes of their opinions (very exaggerated example, but like saying “I adore chocolate” and “I despise chocolate”)) this channel definitely presents a more objective approach than most, showing many different investigations, what points in them are valid or invalid, and many points of view too. You’re amazing!
At least it did until the subject of capitalism came up.
Remember to check her sources - finding exactly what you're looking for can be a siren call so just be careful
Thanks for the heads up! What I mostly meant it was that I was feeling very overwhelmed with this subject, it’s roots, and how it affected my loved ones (especially my trans friends who might face transphobia, and how usually the people who are like that are their own families, which creates a lot of tension, and I was honestly very overwhelmed, which is why I mostly said why I said. Again, thanks so much for the heads up, and I will take a look on them ^^!@@wade2306
I personally dont care about it that much, its a form of body modification and everyone should have that right once reaching a certain age. If it helps your self image and/or is something that a person wants for themselves they should be allowed. I myself dont understand gender identity or its importance, perhaps thats because I myself just don't care what labels I am stuck with because I just am what I am. Ones identity and physicality are both part of them and you don't have much agency in either, even one's identity is influenced by things that they cant control whether external or internal.
I myself went through puberty really late and I am well below the average in height, I am somewhat androgenous though my biological sex is still obvious. None of that mattered to me though because why should I care what my body is like? I just do what I do and am what I am, it doesn't really need a label and no one else needs to understand me but out of pure laziness the answer I put when asked my gender is male but id rather just not have to be asked a question that is pointless to me.
All you said is that you're mentally stable
@@I-call-it-the-poop-loop Yeah I know but considering this doesnt seem to be the norm I dont know lol. People are always crying about what gender they are perceived as whether trans or cis.
If I walk up to the average man where I live and in any way insinuate he isnt manly I could get punched.
Did you just imply that me, as a man, would get angry about gender stuff like I'm a girl or something? You're lucky you're on the internet buddy, otherwise I'd hit you right now!@@Exquailibur
@@Exquailibur when you're in the "default" group it can be really hard to see how someone else's experience could be so different. Trans people are at high risk of murder, rape, and other violence precisely because of their identity. For some groups "Identity Politics" is a life and deaths struggle for existence.
@@orpal Yeah I am in the default group, I am a male that is smaller then most women and I am neurodivergent. I am totally not at risk of any form of violence when most other men are twice my weight and I struggle to identify people's facial expressions.
The point I was trying to make is that I believe in people's rights even if I dont understand those rights. I dont understand why it matters for a person to be a man regardless of whether they are cis or trans but I think people have the right to do so. I dont think I need to understand a person to advocate for them, if I did need to then I wouldnt be able to advocate for many people at all.
I think looking at "reduction of suicidal tendencies" betrays an error in approach. Noone wants to block puberty for the sake of blocking puberty. It isn't even done for alleviation of current problems. It's preventative. A child who's already suicidal due to gender identity issues... isn't going to be made less suicidal by preventing an incongruent puberty. Puberty blockers are just saving them from further stressors, such as development of divergent anatomy, the onset of certain processes, and facial/body hair growth. Puberty blockers are a panic button to buy time for the child to "figure out" their gender stuff, and externally to the child... puberty blockers are a compromise.
Now allow me to elaborate on that. blocking puberty is not the best option for anyone. Puberty is this crossroads. Regardless of what thinking the child needs to do, or what they've already figured out, puberty is an imminent question. At it's core, there are three choices: A, Do nothing. B, Block puberty. C, assisted puberty (provision and management of hormones through puberty, more aligned to the child's sense of gender). with 'A', that is the standard we've had for a long while for many, and it's the default for anyone who slips through the net, and it's also the starting state for these children. You do nothing, incongruent puberty progresses, not every trans child grows up, those that do often having body issues. I'm blase about describing this because it's just the experience for most trans adults right now. Ask them, they'll let you know what A has been like for them. C is practically just a theoretical approach. it is, when sensationalised, the story the american right wing will spin, the "horrors of doctors transing our children". On a more grounded, reasonable perspective.. it is gender affirming care tailored towards, and likely designed to mimic the pubertal progression of hormones, and in this theoretical situation, would result in the child going through puberty simultaneously to their peers, in a manner more congruent with their gender.
please note i'm not talking about ethical questions yet, just the process of each approach, what it results in. B, is temporary. a stopgap. continuing B for too long is extremely inadvisable.
Eventually, you either have to go on HRT, or allow your endogenous pubertal development. So why B? well, I already listed issues that happen with A. As for C, you get questions of the child's capability to decide for themselves, of the level of confidence in that decision, you also have the parents/guardians rights, views, and biases to consider. A child that is adamant on transition, with parents who refuse the child's desire to pursue option C, would usually pursue option A. However, with option B available, puberty blockers, a manner of harm minimisation can occur. B can allow for the decision on seeking hormonal transition to be deferred to such a time as either the parents have softened their position, or the child has sufficiently developed and grown so as to be more removed from the decisions of the parents, and be able to more thoroughly advocate for themselves - that is, the patient is now considered capable of making this medical decision for themselves.
Trans patients seek puberty blockers because it's the lesser of two evils. If, as is one selling point, they needed more time to think on it, and they decide that transition isn't for them, they just stop taking blockers, and resume puberty. The other direction this goes, it's all the other possibilities combined, they continue puberty blockers. This is true if they're "undecided", or if the entire time they know with little doubt, they want to pursue HRT and a more congruent puberty. And it's all well and good criticising puberty blockers, espousing their dangers, negligible "benefits", etc. But they do one thing - block the progression of puberty. And when the choices that are effectively given to that child are an incongruent puberty, or the absence of one.. you're not really giving them much choice. The young trans woman is likely going to pick puberty blockers despite all the concerns, because holding off masculine puberty until she can access feminising hormones is the most she can do to avoid the horror she 'knows' is coming, a body moving ever further away from the kind of body she feels she should have. No matter the cost, the puberty blockers will stave off the outcome she absolutely *doesn't* want. I know this is contentious, but I would argue that the goal should be as little time on puberty blockers as possible. That as soon as that child has confidence in the direction their care should take, effort should be made to either allow puberty to take place, or provide care to assist in the chosen puberty - it is the best way to minimise the harm blockers *could* do, minimise the harm a delayed puberty causes, and also allows for the development of the child in a more healthy manner, rather than keeping them in what is little more than a holding pattern. Delaying the care of a child with obvious and persistent desire to transition should definitely be questioned as an approach to trans healthcare. Especially if hormone blockers are so questionable as an alternative. It's not the child doing this to themselves. It's not even the doctor, they've guidelines to follow. It's the politics.
I implore anyone who gets through this wall of text, talk to a trans person. Don't take the words of politicians, or even science communicators, as they are. Hear what *we* say our problems are, how are lives have been, learn the good, the bad, and the ugly of us. Understand us as people, and perhaps hear our insights as to how we would have liked things to go when we were children, and please, factor that into your understanding and perspectives of trans people, of trans healthcare. Should transgender teens transition? They're already going to be transitioning from child to adult, experiencing the chaos of hormone changes. You have the opportunity to give them the opportunity to actually choose. Don't let your own fears cloud your judgement on how best to address the situation.
Honestly, a little wordy but I got through the wall-o-text and agreed. It was a little weird that the context of puberty blocker's actual role in healthcare wasn't super addressed. And yea, talk to an actual trans person if you know one; getting information of one's lived experience directly from the source is probably going to be more beneficial given the ridiculous -ammount- of content/politick/public furor on trans stuff there is atm.
Puberty blockers are not reversible and have lifelong consequences, never being able to have an orgasm, osteoporosis or being stuck with a micro-P are some of the side effects activist don't tell you.
@@Gengh13 not really the job of an activist to talk to you about the side affects of a drug. Every drug has some pretty bad side affects. That's for you and your doctor to discuss. An activist's job is to help you become aware of your options not feed you the pill.
@@Gengh13 puberty is not reversible and has life long consequences. As someone who was forced to go through puberty i wished i had access to blockers. The problem is that there isn't a neutral option available where nothing happens. At some point you have to weigh the different consequences against each other. So if you want to give more time to make an informed decision then blockers are the best we have right now.
That's ridiculous. There's no proof that puberty blockers prevent or alleviate suicidality and there is some evidence they actually make it worse.
It's so weird to me that people are so opposed to trans people voluntarily taking on risks. When people get knee surgery or hair transplants there are risks but nobody is lining up to tell those people they're wrong, or to ban the procedures. But people will look at a study that says "the benefits might be smaller than we hoped, more research is required" and conclude that all trans procedures should be banned for everyone. Rates of regret for bottom surgery are lower than for knee surgery, but only the former is being banned.
it's a problem when they expect taxes to pay for it. It's also a problem when 20 years later your society is full of individuals who are mentally unstable.
@@charles5449 I don't think you understand how taxes are spent, nor how causality works.
@@noheroes7751 are you insinuating that medicare does not cover "gender affirming care" by using public funding?
And by causality are you implying that individuals with an over 51% suicide rate above average people don't have a tendency towards mental illness (depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc.)?
@@charles5449 If you want to have these individuals mentally stable, then you must be advocating for free access to hormone therapy and surgery, because we know that these measures help when someone needs them.
I'm not sure that's an especially controversial topic at least given you define "people" as adults. Sure any adult who can pay for it, go ahead and best wishes for their health and safety. The video is very specifically about gender affirming care for adolescents. Very young, prepubescent children undergoing hormone therapy and/or surgical procedures. And people oppose this for reasons offered in the video. Comparing this to an elective surgery is also gross because it's apparently life saving for some people. I don't think you really watched the video.
This is a perfect example of the limits of science. Most people talk about things like this as they are fact but dont understand that many of what people state as "fact" are just inferences made by someone who conducted a study. They dont tell us why something is happening. They simply show us that they are. The inferences made from these can always be subject to human bias.
@@user-ip3zi5mb6l what a genius
Thank you, very valuable overview of the studies about the phenomena.
Having worked at a general hospital that's had a trans reference center for decades, it was easy to see that, up until 2015 when I left, in adult patients detransition rates were low and reported quality of life improvement was high. Local data was overwhelming. And it was a lenghty process, too. Screening to greenlight surgical procedures took 2 years. You had to be openly living as the target gender for that period, and you had to control for conditions that could complicate your diagnostics. Psychiatric and psychological care was provided, and every single professional had to agree and sign it in order for you to get the medical approval for permanent procedures. I can't see this being any different for children (in fact Pediatrics is usually way way stricter than this).
TDLR: If your protocol is strict, there's no excuse not to provide care.
Learn to be comfortable in the body you’re born with. Transgender dysphoria simply means you are a guy who thinks that he is a girl and vice versa. All surgery does is require lifelong hormone replacement and sterility. And it’s not up to fetusphobes to demand for everyone else on having a pubescent ‘romper room’ dystopia that casually discards old people and fetuses is good for anybody!🤔
The protocols aren’t nearly as strict now as they were when you left. I know it was very strict & “adults only” in the 1980’s & 90’s. And I wouldn’t rely on Pediatricians to push back against giving puberty blockers or doing “top” & “bottom” surgeries if they’re told those are the “Standard of Care” & they could lose their Admission Privileges, Malpractice Insurance or Licenses if they refuse to provide “gender affirming care”.
I’m a detransitioner, former “trans kid” and I was put on puberty blockers to treat being “born in the wrong body”. This isn’t medicine, and you can’t change sex, I was lied to. I could rant for hours but I’ll leave my comment there. Shame on everyone who does this to kids…
So do you also think a mastectomy to save a person from death by cancer is not health care... or maybe a foot because of diabetes? Hmmm
"I can't see this being any different for children "
Children are TOO YOUNG too make life altering decision. You frighten me. Everything else you said becomes suspect.
I am a transwoman and I think this video has a lot of nuanced discussion about the topic. As a lover a science I would also like to see better studies done on the subject but I think the prospect of creating a control group for these studies is difficult. You'd have to have someone with gender dysphoria and then have them not transition. Antidotally, I can say that this has gone poorly for some of my peers. When there was a control group in that study that fact that it shrank so much should be indicative. My lived experience has been that my mental health has declined while not seeking treatment. It shouldn't be surprising that the control groups mental health gets worse while the other group either stays the same or makes modest gains.
I think there is another topic being left out of the conversation all together. I think we all need to agree on a few foundational things to have a good faith investigation about transgender people. Firstly, I think we need to agree that we are real (was pointed out in the video) and have the right to exist as citizens with the same rights as everyone else. The political problem we have in the US right now is that we can't agree on that. This makes it hard to have good faith research on trans people. It also makes these studies difficult to carry out. How do account for these existential problems that many trans people face? I can say that can take a toll on your mental health. Unless we can reduce that as an external factor or we can account for it I feel like studies will be difficult to carry out.
Just my thoughts :)
It also fair to say that the Trans and LGBTQIA+ community has had lots of poor research done on us in the past. I'd love to see more of the research be designed by people who are apart of the community they are studying. Or at the very least be part of the design process. It's so hard to explain how dysphoria feels to people who haven't experienced it. I feel like it would be a hard thing to study unless you understand what it feels like.
About the control groups I mentioned earlier, I think understanding you are trans and then not transitioning would be paramount to taking a CIS person who knows they are CIS and putting them on the wrong hormones to find out what happens. So how do we ethically design studies with a control in mind when not getting the care could be so needlessly detrimental?
Yes, if pretty much all of the control group leave the study, then that tells you something.
So you want to be a woman and you hate women, or dislike them??
@@ashley5514 I get where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. If a study is properly conducted, then it is irrelevant who the researchers are. While I have nothing against trans people being involved in the studies, introducing them _because_ they're trans is the wrong way to go about it. That feels like a conflict of interest if anything. The only people that should be studying this stuff are those that are serious about the research, regardless of whether they are trans or not.
Anecdotally*
Why complicate something so simple and obvious: 1 - Feelings and desires in people haven't changed. Trans people have always existed in the same proportions. 2 - In the past, failure to conform to a norm in the past could be fatal. 3 - The Internet has allowed minority groups to connect and expose injustices creating a safer world to be themselves.
And *also* social contagion, right?
Hi Sabine, I am really enjoying your videos and just subscribed. Could you provide some clarification regarding your statement that left-handedness was discouraged up until the 1970's? As a left-handed child attending school in the US throughout the 1960's, I recall being shocked to hear that this was true for my grandmother (not so for my mother). I am shocked now to hear that this persisted into the 70s!
It persisted mostly in Europe, France ik for sure and maybe Germany as Sabine is from there.
I don't think this should be portrayed as a "both sides are crazy".
You got popular american conservative figures calling for "eradication of Transgenderism", popular figure Posie Parker (supported by JK Rowling) being backed by Nazi saluting fascists in Australia.
There are no popular figures saying some polar cruel opposite - the unified message of everyone else is respecting trans people and ensuring adequate healthcare.
It frustrates me when respecting people and targeted discrimination is portrayed as equal and opposite.
Its a poor way to frame the discussion. A false equivalency. Its an appeal to a false middle ground, in an attempt to appear objective/non-controversial. She wouldn't do this with physics, so I'm not sure why she would take such a tenuous position here. As she frames them, one side (supporting gender affirming care for adolescents) has supporting evidence and is the position held by the vast majority of medical organizations around the world, the other side does not have supporting evidence, and is mainly motivated by a simplistic outdated understanding of high school level human biology and founded upon antiquated religious beliefs.
Which just shows that Sabine made the decision to be actively dishonest before starting the video.
@@jessicadenkevitz8843 "has supporting evidence" - um yeah, I'm definitely for treating trans people as people but she did spend most of the video detailing just how tenuous that evidence is. All the more important reason to increase the understanding of this aspect of human biology and dump those religious beliefs (most of which are not so antiquated and are not universal to all belief systems). I do think this is what Sabine and her writers have tried to do here.
Both sides are crazy. That one side is also cruel and bigoted does not make the other side less crazy. Puberty blockers really don't seem like a treatment with a high efficacy/side affect ratio.
@@grejen711 ua-cam.com/video/r6Kau7bO3Fw/v-deo.html
The problem with "being backed by Roman saluting fascists" is that they are allowed to go anywhere that they want and back anybody they want for any reason without regard for the beliefs of the people they are backing.
Would you stop doing amniocenteses or fetal ultrasounds because eugenicists were in favor of it?
Just because there are extremists against something doesn't mean that everybody who is against it is an extremist. Extremists can be, and often are, against something for the wrong reasons. White supremacists are against uncontrolled immigration for completely different reasons than economists are, and fruit growers (and other exploitive employers) are FOR uncontrolled immigration for completely different reasons than socialists.
In this case doesn't "a control group" imply that we would have to deny potentially life-saving care to an enormous number of people for a very long time? There seems to be a good reason why that kind of research is less common in medicine.
@Syd4 1stAmendment i'm gonna exercise my first amendment rights to tell you to please lowtiergod yourself. thank you!
You are correct, but how do you think other research into long term issues was conducted? If the test is to determine whether treatment X helps or harms then technically both groups are at risk since you do not know which group is safe. There are cancer studies where people literally got cancer and died just to help prove a treatment was beneficial.
Ideally an animal model would be used for the majority of this kind of research, but that won't fly in this case
We are not particle physicists, we can't simply run the experiment one more time or get a test group out of wimp, and retroactive studies always have their selection and adjustments issues.
Thats why our significance values are so low vs other Sciences
@@RichConnerGMN we don't even need to tell you to lowtiergod yourself. It pretty much assumed lmao
I am 50 now, but at 14, I wanted to be a boy. Because boys have it better, easier. I was forced to do text typing while boys was alliw to play on computer. They where push to do sport, while girls was let alone, on the side, to play... boys was allow to " want sex" , but it was a shame if girls try to show the same sex drive, and so on. I accept to be a woman, but I dont accept social categories and norms that supposely make the difference between boys and girls.
This has nothing to do with being trans, you experienced sexism and inequality between women and men. I understand you’d like to have the men perks but to truly feel that you are in the wrong body, it’s entirely different 🤷♀️
@@louwrentius It's not completely unrelated, experience in sexism and discrimination *can* lead to a path of rejection of such norms, self-questioning and maybe not full-on transition but perhaps non-binarism.
What IS the ideal world though, is another adjacent debate. Transitioning made easy and judgement-free? Or removing the boxes, no longer discerning genders at all, so people dont feel like they are in the wrong box.
My little brother think he is trans but is a blatant trend chaser, so yes they do exist. Many many young people are doing it cos its trendy, which is dangerous and acting like this isnt so, is also very very dangerous.
also 2:55 "have you ever seen a normal human"
Normal in psychiatry is called euthymic.
One thing that you didn't touch one was how forcing a transperson to go through a Puberty that mismatches their gender has huge consequences as an adult. Often increasing the costs of Transition by a large percentage due to having to pay for surgeries to erase secondary characteristics that mismatch the gender. ALSO, esp for Transwomen. If we don't get on blockers, we will often grow to be bigger than cisgender women. Something that is completely irreversible with any surgery.
She hates trans, she's just too chickenshit to do anything but dog whistle about it.
Do you know why trans women grow to be bigger than cis women? It’s because you’re biologically male.
And transmen will likely be very short without intervention, which is a huge disadvantage to men in part because of misogyny. Puberty blockers delay puberty and often allow trans boys to reach a height more typical of cis men
People that haven't gone through puberty yet shouldn't even have concepts of "gender identity" because that doesn't exist. If you want to claim it exists at all, it is a sexual identity, stop sugarcoating it to make it sound like it isn't sexual. That is all it is, and ever will be. Sexual identity is not something kids should be thinking about. It's something for adults to decide, when their brain has developed.
Literally this video sucks I used to like her but she ignores so much and seems pretty dead set on just following the status quo on this issue
"have you ever seen a normal human being" 😂😂
Yes. Height is normally distributed. Gender is bimodal in 95.5%
I recall seeing a story about how the US airforce tried to build cockpits configured for the average pilot and found that pretty well every pilot found them uncomfortable.
@@KonradZielinski seems life is like a movie... if you try and make it good for everyone, nobody is happy.
@@KonradZielinski yep. they took something like 80 different measurments and averaged them, but found that exactly nobody was actually average on more than about seven of the measurements. Humans vary a LOT.
Joe Bauers, but some corrupt military officer put him in a fridge 15 years ago and he will not go out of hibernation before the 26th century
The curious thing about this trend has been the correlation with socialist politics. This commitment is often fanatical. When this topic has been brought up, I try to stay out of the conflict but express my complete disregard for socialism, which shouldn't normally elicit a response. Instead transgender advocates get verbally violent and aggressive.
Sabine, your objectivity and depth of thought--and yes, even your bone-dry humor--on this painfully sensitive topic are a breath of fresh air.
I'm a 32 year old trans man. I didn't know what being transgender is as a teenager. I was just a depressed, suicidal mess. If I had known back then what I know now, I would have transitioned as a teenager, it just wasn't an option yet available.
Hi fam. I can never spot you guys out in society. Yay trans guys. Xoxo.
Learn to be comfortable in the body you’re born with. Transgender dysphoria simply means you are a guy who thinks that he is a girl and vice versa. All surgery does is require lifelong hormone replacement and sterility. And it’s not up to fetusphobes to demand for everyone else on having a pubescent ‘romper room’ dystopia that casually discards old people and fetuses is good for anybody!🤔
Well, hate to break it to you but in many places they will not allow you to transition until you're 18 unless it's a special case. Teens mind hasn't fully developed yet and they are still in the process of 'finding' themselves, who they are. It's something that is not often talked about, but the regret is transitioning is very real for some people that went through with it. There are no reliable numbers for that but it's real nonetheless. Unless severely depressed and seriously considering suicide, would be better for most to wait few extra years than allow all of them and have some of them become permanently depressed for rest of their life because of a choice they made as a young teen. Although it for sure has helped some, for some it doesn't help at all or even makes things worse. And for that reason I believe it is a decisions best left for consideration until adulthood... although that too might be a bit early for some.
@Spugelo what other thing in life is held to a 'if absolutely anyone regrets this later it should be banned' standard? That's not reasonable at all.
@@Pererro4ever this is a special matter. hrt is not the same as getting a tattoo or doing surgery; its a lot more complex and can have very fundamental irreversible changes, such as fertility and physical features.
if someone ends up regretting it (which is uncommon for now but certainly real), it is a lot more profound than some other cosmetic or less important irreversible decisions.
The gender ratio shift could be explained in many other ways - it's hard to compare the violence and hatred "failed men" face in society to anything. By that i mean people who were expected to be straight men (gay men, transgender women), who did not comply with societies expectations. The physical and emotional violence that comes with that from peers and family is unparalleled. I'm not saying people assigned female at birth who transition don't face difficulties, just that they are different, and currently less immediately severe. It's much easier to be "non binary" if you were born AFAB because feminism already fought for women's right to be gender non conforming. Any sign of gender deviancy from AMAB people is mostly met with ridicule and like i said violence.
*hugs*
That's the reason why I do worry for my amab demi-male spouse when he (his preferred pronoun) goes about in one of his blouses. I think being blind probably insulates him a little bit, at least from physical violence. No one comments about me never wearing anything "girly"
That said, I'm the one buying or making them for him, since I know what colors suit him better and how to minimize his (in his opinion) unfortunate amount of hair.
Twitter incarnate
It could also be genetic 🧬. There is considerably less selective pressure to be very masculine or very feminine with society, so sexual dimorphism is likely decaying from lack of reason to be maintained. This wouldn't always cause transgenderism, but the gap is shorter to cross 🦘.
Feminine traits are the most effected, as feminine traits are the most different from basal, as human women have the most complicated gender specific traits. Males are more close to normal animal behaviour, with human wide traits added on.
Thank you for ponting this out. AMAB (Assigned Male At Bith) gender non conforming individuals in westernized societies face incredible levels of violence in all fronts.
It’s disappointing to see Sabine not making the effort to understand how societal factors like the amount of hatred openly directed at the trans community, particularly trans women, will skew results :/
We grow up scared to death to come out. We are discussed as subhuman, degenerates, and as if we’re out of our minds for “deciding to not be men”.
This information is presented as “neutral” but the amount of time dedicated to “concerns” on treatment and the lack of mention regarding the long term satisfaction rates of gender affirming care *in accepting environments* is baffling.
Our lives are not made worse because of treatment. It’s the unending hatred, family rejection, lack of job oportunities as visibly trans.
We’re dehumanized sistematically, and that takes a toll on our emotional wellbeing.
I respect Sabine’s expertise on particle physics any day, no doubt. She’s a fantastic science communicator when it comes to physical phenomena, and as a phycisist myself, I find her brilliant.
However, I find her lacking an empathic view in these topics. It’s *impossible* to discuss “crude data” seriously whithout at least acknowledging the effect the amount of violence thrown our way has 😔 it’s disheartening. All of these “moderate” “level headed” discussions are scary. How can all of this hatred just be willingly ignored? 😨😰
(Edits for clarity)
Depends where you are in the country. Often standards for male competence get ridiculous and unrealistic if you're in an area with lots of gang violence or it's rurual, so the ridicule and violence are from insecure men that hate seeing someone letting others down by not being a warrior with their own compound, which isn't really something realistic that citizens in a developed country should worry about.
I think the study concluding hormone treatment keeps life satisfactory the same, while the untreated ones get worse, is better support for these treatments than said in this video. It gets downplayed a bit by you saying "That is just because the control group got worse", but we have dozens of treatments which aim to just stop worsening a condition.
Many chronic diseases will never get better, or continue to get worse, despite heavy treatments. But we still use these treatments to avoid the condition getting worse. Let's take being HIV positive as an example: Medication never cures you, just stops it from getting worse.
If gender disphoria results in a extremely high suicide rate when untreated, but remains at a medium suicide rate when treated, I think that is a very good thing. I don't think anyone would say HIV medication has little effects because it doesn't cure HIV either
But it's never proven that it results in an extremely high s****de rate, it's only shown that the population as a whole has a higher than average one. Which isn't surprising because half of them have autism, which natively has a higher than average s****de rate, another half have ADD, another demographic with a high s****de rate.
If HIV medication had significant downsides and tradeoffs, and you started campaigning to give it to teenagers before you'd even proven they have HIV, that would be analogous.
@@Hankblue All the data we have heavily suggests a very high suicide rate in Transgender people, especially if it is untreated. Sure, you can look at every singular study and say "look, that thing causes the study to not be a 100% proof" but if we look at the bigger picture, the evidence is overwhelming. The suicide rate of people with ADHD is higher as well, but far from comparable with Transgenders, therefore saying that the suicide rate is just caused by ADHD/Autism does not add up, because for that the suicide rate among transgenders is too high.
But even if we ignore suicide rate, the study showing the drastic difference in life satisfactory among treated and untreated Transgender people is massive. Therefore even if suicide rate *would* be unproven, the drastic difference in life satisfactory is.
"If HIV medication would have significant side effects, you would not give it to children you are unsure if they are HIV positive"
First of all, puberty blockers side effects aren't that much worse than HIV medication side effects, considering most of them are reversible and bone density returns close to normal after it's use gets stopped as well. But sure, then let's take another example.
The evidence that anti-depressions actually work is far lower than the evidence that puberty blockers work. And the chance of getting wrongly diagnosed with major depressive disorder is comparable to getting wrongly diagnosed with gender dysphoria. And the side effects of anti-depressions are really bad, I can tell that from first hand expirience. My mom had to go to the ER after using them the first time, I had to vomit the entire night after taking them the first time and the list of additional side effects is gigantic.
Yet anti-depressions still get used in teens.
I love your thoroughness and objectivity. Thank you. I come here first when I need a primer on a new issue.
I think there is something to be said about AFAB (assigned female at birth) people not being taken seriously. I am an adult transgender man (and very very happy with myself and body, Finally!!) and this lack of respect has plagued me my entire life. I feel that a lot of “panic” over young transmen derives from this. At the end of the day you don’t need to understand every single thing about every person. Let me and my siblings live in peace, as so many of us want. Additionally- I would challenge cis (non-transgender individuals) to seek out the stories of ACTUAL trans people who seem to be lost in this war on our lives. When you preemptively decide I am “crazy” you have already decided that I am without humanity. I am a human being. Transgender people are simply human beings.
A trans person in Sabine's show. That's a great find. May I ask you a few things about your experience? In particular about your comment?
I promise to be respectful but I'm very curious
I live in a very "traditional / fundamentalist" society where, for most people, there simply are just male and female people and that's it. The rest is plainly sin and evil. What I find so incredibly frustrating is how they can speak so seemingly "authoritatively" and with such certainty because of what they've read in their Holy Book, and what they've only discussed between each other, without ever actually sitting down and talking to a real person on the side they claim to know so much about. I want to explode...
How many trans physicists are there?
Yeah, cis people debating wether we're valid is such a yikes. Especially when the bar for wether we should be treated with dignity is "do we kill ourselves if we don't?". And then there is a heated debate between the people who don't care if we kill ourselves and the "reasonable" people who think nah maybe if we kill ourselves it's worth treating us like human, but only if we prove we won't if they do. What no double blind study to show that I won't suicide if you use the right pronouns? Too bad I guess.
So do you believe in genders? They are not real, why are you playing the game of people who uses gender to discriminate people, and explain why they discriminate them, while accepting the cause of their discrimination as something real? I mean, why you accept the existence of gender and their roles as something real, while they are not and while you know the discrimination they drive people into?
I expect that trans men used to be under counted.
I'm 62 and a trans man who was assigned female at birth (AFAB). My male identity was clear to me before kindergarten. I thought I was alone. I knew trans women but never met a trans man.
In my 30s, I started meeting many women, my age and older, who also had "gender identity issues." These women never referred to themselves as trans men. Instead, they talked about the horror, physical discomfort, and trauma of being in the wrong body. These women would never have been counted in a survey or come out publicly.
This is how I discovered I wasn't alone in the world. I attended a large women's spiritual retreat where I confided that I struggle with gender identity issues. The facilitator confessed that they too had these struggles. Then the room was filled with choruses of "me too." It was a transformative moment. The community became a safe place to talk about identity and even the very elderly would discuss their male identities. I don't remember any of these individuals coming out publicly, but given that there is more acceptance today, I hope that they will.
You are *actually* trans. Kids today can just be what used to be called tomboys, but now take their mild, common gender non-conformity and immediately leap to "im trans!"
What else was clear for you at kindergarten? Did anything at all clear at kindergarten later evolved? What else didn't change throughout your life?
I was lucky when I tried to explain to my parents that I was in the wrong body, I was told that tough, this was the body I was given so I would just have to live with it. I never once doubted I was in the wrong body. I remember even before fully understanding the difference between boys and girls, having the desperate need to crawl out of my body because it felt so wrong. I did learn early on that it was not a safe topic to talk about so I kept it secret. My parents used to explain to everyone that I was just a tomboy. When I got older my parents sent me to modeling and finishing school twice in an attempt to teach me to behave and present more like a woman.
@@MarigoldBright maybe I didn't make myself clear, sorry. Anything related to any other topic? Did your views on dinosaurs or astronauts change? Maybe firemen and power rangers? Santa clause? What else did you *know* in kindergarten and how do you feel about that knowledge now?
@@MarigoldBright you're actually trans. Kids today call themselves trans just for being tomboys.
So gender is a social construct.
So if you have problems with your gender that is something society imposes on you.
So you can define biological sex, but does defining gender make any sense?
Let’s hope that one day, we can all just be happy as we are.
This is only anecdotal but, I reconcile it with the fad happening as I was growing up in the early 2000s. Suddenly all girls were bi.
The women I know now that went through that fad, plus younger women that have been influenced by a past generation, it seems to be largely true. Though, they still seem to be mostly straight, while enjoying the other gender/sex from time to time.
The end result is they have a fling with a woman, or that fling turns into a long-term relationship, or they're with a man and introduce another woman to the bedroom by choice from time to time. And in very rare instances it becomes a long-term polyamorous relationship.
So in conclusion, I think the current fad will likely not be just a fad, but it also doesn't mean everyone's going to be swapping genders/sexes non-stop.
And my biggest wishlist item is that we get better terminology for someone to explain when they're transgender vs transsexual vs intersex vs any other thing on the spectrum of this technicolor rainbow
The terms are all about the science of the social. InterSEX is based on the xx vs xy chromosomes, or in that case having both. TransGENDER is about the social idea of boys and girls and how sex really doesn’t determine much outside reproduction. My wife is much stronger than me, I enjoy cleaning more. I like gypsy clothes and makeup and she likes leather and jeans. Both of us are theys when we want to be. And both of us can agree men and women are ATTRACTIVE.
Gender and sexuality is a spectrum of how you feel.
Sex is a medical term for what’s between your legs.
@@ThatOneRump See that's what I'm talking about. All of that addresses what I'm saying perfectly except for one thing. People that identify as transgender that attempt to change as much about their sex as possible.
Someone that goes through the full hormonal therapy treatment along with surgical procedures. If they started off female and changed to male minus their internal sexual reproduction organs, are they transgender or transsexual? And then what about a female that just doesn't identify that much with their gender and tends to have more masculine hobbies and friends? Are they also transgender same as the person that went through all the surgery?
Actually, forcing left handed people to write with their right hands is not harmless. It has been associated with stuttering and other complications.
Yeah, it's quite alienating and stifles learning
Nobody said otherwise.
The argument is that there’s a big difference between letting someone write with their left hand and proceeding with irreversible surgeries and committing them to a life of chronic medication.
@@theondono The data suggests that those who regret transition are incredibly low. That you think you should have a say in these decisions is just not plausible.
@@joeandorian7719 You mean the barely existent data suggest there isn’t many who regret the transition? There are LOTS of people who do. I’ve been on dates with some. I personally know some. And now that it’s so much easier to get access to hormones and puberty blockers, I am guessing the number of people who regret it is going to massively increase.
Just as an aside, what is wrong with just being who you are regardless of your inners? Seriously. Maybe the problem is misogyny ia still alive and well. What’s wrong with being a fem boy or a butch girl? Seriously. Trans ideology is currently erasing lesbian and gay kids or even just kids who don’t fit into a binary, all the while say the heteronormativity is the problem.
It is a trash argument to say that a little kid is going to actually understand what they are doing to there body. It’s akin to child a use to allow this as liberally as it is. More strict standards need to be in place before a kid that can’t even vote can start electing to have their biological development disrupted.
@@joeandorian7719 even if only one person regrets it it is enough to criticize it. Now there is Reddit with more than 40000 people regretting it and there are multiple Detransitioners speaking out. They are on UA-cam and they have their own organizations. They are growing and growing.
Your beloved data is obviously inaccurate
I am transgender, yes, and the amount of red tape and social stigma I have to get through in order to receive gender affirming care makes me highly skeptical about the idea of this being a "fad". Would have to be one masochistic fad - I wonder if cis people realize how hard it actually is to start treatment. All of these safeguards put in place to hypothetically protect some fraction of a fraction of a population from making the wrong decision seems to me like it's creating much more suffering by denying care to people who need it, for sometimes an excessively long time. But that's just anecdote, and I am a hurt person, so take it with a big grain of salt.
How do you know these procedures won't have other unwanted consequences? There was a time when Thalidomide was thought to be a wonderful answer to morning sickness nausea for pregnant women. That was the "science" of the day. I think it's better to be safe, rather than sorry. Biology has evolved over millions of years, and I don't think we've suddenly developed a mastery over it. If we think that, then we're really just deceiving ourselves.
I want a full head of hair but I can't. So I appreciated being bald. Sort your life out!
@@manofsan there is a bit of a difference between thalidomide, a medication that was used for that purpose for a few years and obvious adverse effects were discovered, and feminizing hrt, something that's been used for decades now
@@1998wiwi using a progestin that's used to castrate people dude. I think a future where this is looked at as a huge mistake is completely within the realm of reason.
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I was raised in a *very* sheltered and rural Christian area by a devoutly religious family. I had almost no understanding or exposure to LGBT concepts until I was an adult and moved away from home.
I started getting yelled at by adult teachers for “not acting like a boy should” in kindergarten. I instinctively knew I had to hide it from my family because they had the same Christian hate in their hearts that we’re seeing so much of today. My internal sense of gender has never changed, I just learned what it meant and sought medical help as an adult.
Most of us know we’re not cis when we’re very very young, but wasn’t allowed to even know that concept existed.
The kicker is that my entire adult life was spent terribly depressed, but for me it wasn’t even so much an identity/dysphoria issue.
Turns out that all my brain needed to function properly was corrected hormones and the depression literally just vanished.
I would be interested to compare the numbers for depression and life satisfaction talked about in the 18 minute mark with people who go to group therapy or some other social therapy. Part of me wonders if it isn’t finally “belonging,” to a group has some benefit on its own. I’m not in a spot to look into it at the moment, so this is also a reminder to myself to look it up!
My father grew up unacceptably left-handed in decidedly non-progressive 1930/40's Belfast, and in his case the result of forced right-handed writing was a terrible stutter that took a decade of renewed left-handed writing (as an adult) to rectify - so not quite as easily fixed as swapping hands, though he definitely wished it had been so
My lefthanded husband was also scorned in class by the teacher for making a mess while writing (with an inkpen, no wonder). This was back in the '80 in western europe too.
@@InShadowsLinger he only said, "not as easy as swapping hands", which is correct, no? It was just a nuance. Go and review your claim of "willful misleading".
@@InShadowsLinger: My father had tremors for the entire remainder of his life, and never fully recovered his lefthandedness. I'm not sure what exact point you're trying to make, but my father's anecdotal experience does not seem to support it.
@@InShadowsLinger this is so bad, it's not even wrong
@@zbnmth It wasn't said that "swapping hands" in this case is objectively easy. It is as easy as re-learning all the motor skills associated with primary hand. But still, doable with proper rehab. Which isn't the case for permanent changes during puberty, be it artificial or natural
I am sick to death of people talking about it. Thanks for adding to the pile. I am trans, I live out my life in peace and don't bother others. I just want to be left to get on with things without going on twitter and seeing me being painted as a predator or a groomer, to walk down the street without seeing angry faces of people with preconceived beliefs about me based on what they have seen in this culture war. I am especially bored of the allies who think that activism is boycotting a video game or telling me what words I can or can't use to talk about myself. I am super sick of people who claim they are being cancelled, usually super rich celebrities who will never have to worry for anything in their lives.
The people who just want to get on with their lives without forcing anyone else to do anything aren't the loudest ones, so aren't the ones who get the most attention. I think the only way out of that is for us all to be trans-species, as it seems to be a part of the human condition.
The "gender" meme-complex is being used as an excuse to groom, molest, and cut up healthy children.
people see them as groomers not without any reason
@@barryon8706 I think that's called transhumanism, and you just pointed out one of, if not The best arguments for it.
Unfortunately the movement has been co-opted by very loud disingenuous people, who want to have their 15 minutes of fame.
There are valid arguments from both sides but the yelling at each other isn’t productive.
Surely we have better things to worry about as a global community, such as nuclear war, AI, disease?
23:00 I have been thinking of this too.
That the numbers of people are probably only this high, because it has only been socially acceptable for 5-10 years to come out as trans, and so a lot of people are just now getting the chance to do so.
In short, the trans tube got clogged and its in the process of unclogging itself, and once the backed up trans people all came out as trans, we'll only have the trans people of new generations, not the trans people of several generations at once
Also, they are kinda trendy right now. The kinda personalities most trans people have are interesting to people, so they interact a lot with those personalities, like here on youtube.
Once the mainstream gets used to there being a handful of trans people just in their daily lives, they'll stop being interested in this an interesting trend, and just see them as people, and people arent interesting. Specific persons are.
Hello. I am transgender and left handed. And I want to share my story. But first I want to say that English is not my native language, so I apologize for my style. Now I am 31 years old. I started hormonal therapy at 24, then I changed documents at 27. I have felt a problem with my gender all my life and wanted to change sex since childhood. I learned about the possibility of hormone therapy only at the age of 17. I only learned the term "gender dysphoria" at the age of 23. I didn't start the transition until adulthood, not because I didn't feel dysphoric. I just didn't know about the possibilities and was afraid to talk about this topic. I didn't need to know the term "dysphoria" to experience it. Thus, I was a closeted transgender without even knowing about the existence of the “Lgbt agenda”.
I also want to say about the comparison of transgender and left-handedness. They did not try to retrain me to the right hand. But I tried to learn to write with my right hand myself. And I didn't succeed. It's difficult and uncomfortable for me. I would not be happy if they tried to retrain me by force. I can indeed take a pen from my left hand to my right, but that won't make me right-handed and will only cause discomfort.
I also want to express my opinion about the "pseudo transgenders" who allegedly fell victim to LGBT propaganda. In our society, it is believed that a man should be masculine and a woman feminine. Many people who have problems with gender expression think they are transgender. But you don't have to be transgender to be a gentle guy with long hair or a strong-willed strong woman. In my opinion, the problem of "pseudo transgenders" is in public stereotypes and not in society's awareness of transgenders. I believe that if people are freer and more aware, the number of transgender people will not increase. There will be an increase in the number of people who, being cisgender, will show less stereotypical traits.
And finally, I will add that the lack of improvement in the psycho-emotional state of children receiving therapy may be associated with social problems and social rejection. I will not speak for all situations, but in some of them, the refusal to change your body and documents can cause more suffering than the difficulties that arise during the transition. In such situations, therapy may not make life substantially better, but not therapy may make life substantially worse.
Can you educate me a little bit about how you felt like you were in the wrong body?
Even if I was better at writing with my left hand, I would have no idea. I've only ever tried writing with my right hand.
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In the same manner, I have never entertained the thought that I could be "in the wrong body." I don't even know how I might come to that conclusion. Maybe it would be an indication if i found other men attractive. But aren't there also gay trans?
Also, I think people have a deep reverence for the traditional concept for masculinity and femininity. It is not apparent that it is a a good idea to erase these sacred archetypes for the sake of utilitarianism or hedonism.
That is a beautifully expressed message, Touko. I appreciate your sharing the journey you've been on. It actually helps people understand the parameters of our varied lives and our conversations.
@@21area21 Hey are21--
I can't reply for Touko but I wanted to say that as a gay man, no-one I know is challenging the "rightness" of people who feel or are drawn to well-defined masculinity or femininity. I happen to like those incarnations of sexual identification, and frankly, some or most trans-folk seem to as well. Feeling that your physical corpus is inconsistent with your felt gender is simply a different issue.
I know many heterosexual men and women who put very little stock or energy into traditional gender roles, but many gay people like myself, and many trans people, who do. So whether our feelings are so different from yours is quite debatable. The important principle is respecting every individual's right to define themselves, and to determine the course of their own desires, and not put any person's life or life choices on some public platform for the pleasure of our dissection and derogation.
Ultimately, the big, huge, monstrous problem lies with the language we use. Sex (male/female/intersex) and gender (masculine/feminine/neutral) are not the same. Trans sex and Trans gender are not the same. "man" and "woman" are neither sexes nor genders, they are terms combining different meanings of sex and gender.
It's all a huge mess caused by academia using words in completely incoherent and contradictory ways.
@@KangMinseok I completely agree. Language is an obstacle to a lot of clarity. But with the right calculation and good judgement, we can change language, which changes on its own constantly.
It’s worth pointing out that the irreversible damage goes both ways. People are more likely to give inaction and status quo a free pass but that’s a bias. Trans kids going through the wrong puberty is also irreversible. You don’t actually have to prove no one takes blockers that shouldn’t have, you have to prove that a majority of cases are false positives.
Exactly this. Going through the wrong puberty is not a neutral action to bide time.
It's a Kafkaesque nightmares for trans teenagers.
I'm lucky I made it out of my teen years.
Going through the wrong puberty is not only psychologically traumatic, but also sets the trans person up for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in surgeries to correct what the puberty forced onto them, and may never get the results they wanted had they been allowed to go through the correct puberty.
Forcing trans teens to go through the wrong puberty is not a neutral, harmless decision.
Yes, louder. The bias in favor of the status quo is deafening.
Puberty is irreversible, the claims of widespread detransition are lies. Gender affirming care is massively beneficial and none of the criticism is about how you can make the 97 to 99% successful process even better, it's always whether or not gender affirming care should exist.
The medical efficacy is staggering. It's like banning root canals because a tiny minority of cases break your jaw or give you deadly infection that later kills you. The answer isn't to ban dental work? The false framing hurts my brain.
I believe what you are doing here is called "false equivalence". It's definitely imbalanced if one is honest about the relative damage caused by the wrong decision (assuming that both decisions are legitimate).
@Diego Dios De La Baile Hormone blockers taken by themselves can have significant observable negative effects, as mentioned in the video. If doctors collectively determine the benefits of delayed puberty outweigh the risks of normal onset puberty that doesn't align with the patients gender identity... ok that's awesome, give kids solely blockers. But we're just not there yet.
What didn't seem to be mentioned in the video is that hormone blockers are rarely taken by themselves for transitioning, they are almost always combined with a hormone replacement. Very few trans people take only blockers because, again, there are observable negative side effects when doing that. None of this is to argue against the idea of a kid dealing with trans thoughts who just wants more time to figure themselves out. That sounds like a stressful mindset to live in and I'm glad more of them are starting to get the hormone replacement therapy that helps them.
@Diego Dios De La Baile >However if kids don't take thise blockers there is evidence of significant negative effects
No, there is not. There is no evidence that physically stopping puberty is what is improving mental health. That's literally what this video is about.
Puberty blockers have existed and been used since the 1980s, but there is "no longitudinal analysis" on their effects?
The effects would have to be horrible and numerous for me to logically believe it's a net loss to humanity to provide them to trans people. Going through the wrong puberty does vastly more harm than any side effect
@@RealFemale69 Can you provide studies proving this logical conclusion you've made?
@@domerame5913 if the link I sent didn't send ask me to send it again
@@domerame5913 I sent a link but I'm not sure if it was deleted or not, can you read it?
@@domerame5913 in case you can't see it "Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment" 2014 published in the American Academy of Pediatrics
To me there is an elephant in the room. It is the society that we are embedded in, and the assumptions and expectations of what gender means. What could happen if we changed as a society in terms of acceptance and care for individuals, what if children grew up where there gender played more of a minor role in their social structures. If we had a society that celebrated individual expression and reduced labelling and recognised also that we are changing dynamic beings, who go through all sorts of transitions and oscillations. How much gender dysphoria is caused by discomfort with context rather than the individual? This extends far wider than gender, but into all forms of labelling and prejudice, and our deep need for care, acceptance and connection with our shared humanity.
if someone has physical gender dysphoria, no amount of social acceptance will alleviate it. that takes a medical transition to fix
As a university professor, I have had more than one student over the years suddenly changing the first name to something suggesting the opposite gender. They usually are in their lower twenties and I'm rather confident they have made up their mind by now. They are just starting their transition, so their appearance and behavior sometimes sends mixed signals as to their gender, which can lead to awkward interactions. It is therefore a special challenge to treat these students in such a way as not to make their transition even more difficult then it already is. It seems to me that being aware of their struggle is the first step to improve their situation, and correct information and honest discussion helps with that. In this sense: thanks, Sabine, for this valuable contribution.
Awkward interactions? Just treat everyone as human, no awkwardness there.
Why not assign numbers to students instead?
When talking about teens in middle and high school, which is what this video focused on, we need to keep in mind that children of that age are desperate to fit in, especially girls. This is why there is a higher percentage of depression among girls of that age than boys. Since you give your own personal experience on the matter let me give you mine. My teenage goddaughter and her friend last year announced that they were non-binary and wanted to be called they/them. The friend even changed her name to Moss. A year later and they both are back to using female pronouns and the young lady to using her given name. While my goddaughter's parents, other family members and I supported her wishes and used the terms she wanted for us to use I had a suspicion that she and her friend, who are not popular girls, made the decision not based on actual feelings of gender dysphoria but because they saw it as a way to increase their popularity among their peers. When their expectations of increased popularity didn't pan out they dropped the new pronouns.
This is why I believe the studies are noting a rapid increase of the phenomena among young girls not previously seen before. As Sabine noted girls are more likely to be influenced by popular culture and will do whatever they feel necessary to fit in. This is why it is very important for young people to get counseling and why I support the idea that no permanent physical changes be made until after they have reached adulthood when they are better able to make a decision that will affect them for the rest of their lives.
If I could put my input on the matter, I would like to emphasise on that acceptance of their current identity is a very important thing to do, if their current identity or not- you can't decide for them who they are. Also true with sexual orientation- even if your kid or friend who came out as gay might actually be straight or bi or whatever, it's not for you to decide, it's for them. Just understand and be accepting of who they are, and if they come up to the realisation that the trans label does not fit them- try and be accepting aswell. The fact that there is always doubt on wether their identity is the most matching for them never means that the most common option is the correct one for themselves, just that it's ok if they regret or change their minds.
"I can see you're making many changes in how you present yourself, lately. Is there anything I should update about how I refer to you? If I do end up needing to make changes, I would be happy to. I want to make sure my classroom is a safe place for everyone to be more authentically themselves."
A complaint about statistics: If you _know_ you don't know the true rate of trans folks in the population, there's no reason to believe you know anything about the true distribution at all (in fact all we know for sure is this is not the true distribution!) Many marginalized groups are suppressed diferentially, so we should not expect that the suppressed distribution resembles the true distribution in any way. Young boys and young girls are subject to wildly different social forces, there's no reason to believe there should be any kind of invariance of proportions as those social forces shift.
It's perfectly possible that the social construct "female" produces more diagnosable gender dysphoria, or that the social construct "man" has properties that cause fewer such diagnoses, or that the disparity is rooted in the general anatomy of the mainstream gender ideology of the studied societies.
@@christianknuchel How can you socially construct something built off of biology and the actual recordable differences between male and female brain structure? You refuse to debate on a non emotional basis.
To demonstrate one difference in social forces... compare the word for a girl who acts like a boy (tomboy) and a boy who acts like a girl (sissy, nancy boy). Girls (I think) typically view “tomboy" as more or less neutral (it could be positive, negative, or neutral depending on intent) but “sissy” is one of the worst insults a 12-year-old boy can think of.
Could the chemicals that are so pervasive in plastic water bottles and plastic food packaging and/or other toxins in the environment be a contributing factor in gender dysphoria? I seem to remember many articles about fish and frogs changing sex caused by the hormonal disrupting chemicals in their water.
Switching your pen to the other hand takes seconds and is a choise, just as crossdressing.
Writing with your other hand and having it feel natural is not a choice, just as being trans.
As such the comparison is a lot better than you gave it credit imo
An important thing to remember is that often times any sort of these studies would be _unethical_ to perform with an untreated control group.
Wouldn't the control group just be people who don't identify trans/get no treatments? So, for example, if there some widespread factor, like another pandemic, mental health decline might be record in all groups, including the control group? There is no ethical issue with a control group that just lives their lives normally.
@@mikecurtis11 the point of a control is to remove variables. The primary problem with using a cis control when studying trans treatment options is that cis individuals aren't trans, which creates a variable which cannot be easily reconciled.
Even if you tracked a representative cis population to see any mental well-being changes over time, the best you could do, from a conclusion standpoint, is point at the numbers.
It would be impossible to say with high certainty what caused any differences between the cis and trans samples. Cis people, as an example, don't have their existence in public life or their access to healthcare as a constant daily subject of international debate. You'd have to account for that reality in the data, along with other differences in lived experiences between cis and trans people.
From a study design standpoint, that's a huge ask. Better instead to use trans controls when studying trans treatment outcomes.
Unethical or ineffective?
@@jorehir unethical, according to ethics review boards.
I thought this was only the case when a placebo was used instead of the current best standard of care. For example, when a new cancer drug is compared against placebo, which causes enormous harm, rather than to the current best cancer drugs. (Yes, there are such cases.)
As an adult trans person who has grown up away from social media or even the trans conversation (my family is conservative and religious) transitioning in my late 20s has been a boon on my mental health and general quality of life. But I assume that is because the people I live with accept me and respect my identity.
I think studying trans people's mental health is complicated because we are a small minority and our well-being is very dependent on how those around us (family, colleagues, government) treat us. That is why I suspect proving HRT does any good is complicated, it is only a small part of what being a healthy and happy trans person is.
On top of that, many trans people forgo hormones and operations completely and focus on the social part of their transition. So, I do not think focusing on hormonal therapy is a good way of studying whether transitioning is a good thing. I guess we will have to wait and see for more studies to come in.
Well said!
I suspect HRT and other medical procedures help with not experiencing quite as much hate. That is, if you "pass", transphobic people just don't notice you which in my opinion is quite obviously good for anyone's mental health.
If we lived in a perfect world, maybe medical transition would be unnecessary for most trans people, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now.
@@nio804Being honest, no not really. Treatments help me with my own distress over my secondary sex characteristics. Other people have very little to do with it.
If there are other trans people who feel the way you describe than it would explain a lot of the bad data in the video. We’d need to separate those two groups since they have different needs.
@@qarsiseer Ah, I didn't mean a trans person would choose to go on HRT just to "pass", but that it has the incidental effect of making it easier to present as their gender without being noticed by transphobes.
Obviously any decision to medically modify one's body should be founded on personal needs first, regardless of whether it's related to gender or not.
@@nio804 Before I accepted that I was trans, I was trying to figure out if there was a way for doctors to remove my breasts "but in a way where I don't have to come out as transgender." I badly wanted to change my sex characteristics even if I couldn't socially transition, so there are trans people that are affected by the experience of their body in way not directly related to how they're treated in society.
At the time I was willing to forego social transition because I feared what negative things I would face as a trans person, so social stigma still plays a part in how people feel about gender expression. (Luckily for me, social transition was a breeze so I didn't even need to worry about it lol)
Too complicated for me. I cross that bridge if I'll have too.
What does it even mean to say you feel "male" or "female" or whatever? All I can determine is that I've felt like me my whole life. I've no idea what gender is, other than a way topigeonhole oneself or others.
If you sexualy like women then you are male if you like men then you are female
The medical treatment should of course not be instantly accessible to children. However, the abuse trans people go through on a regular basis beforehand can not be understated.
Many see hormone therapy as an out, an "if i do this, people will see the real me right away". And yes, that does work sometimes. However, the much more important thing is to get society to stop taking gender roles that seriously to the point of systematized abuse based on gender assigned at birth, and not just for trans people.
It is not the unequivocal duty of someone with a uterus to bear children and care for them, and any other lifestyle is a waste or something.
Neither is it the duty of someone with a penis to bottle up all emotion, show no weakness ever and be a breadwinner for a member of the former group.
You might say our society doesn't do that anymore, but you couldn't be less blind or ignorant if you say that. It has just become much more subtle, but no less harsh.
But you have to admit that human society wouldn’t have advanced had people before us NOT conformed to certain roles. Imagine if hunter/gatherer tribes just said “naw we gonna do some other shit” and ended up starving/not reproducing. Imagine if your parents didn’t fuck.
That's what's always confused me. I'm from a place where even before the trans thing, if one bathroom broke you could just use the other one. No one was really abused or teased for being a woman or trans, and usually it's the opposite where people are confronted for being rude towards different people.
I think the trans thing is a reaction to places with oppressive gender norms, like if you're a man you must own a truck or guns or else you won't get attention from women, bullshit like that. It's a harsh country, America.
Regardless if you're man or woman you'll get punished for it. It makes sense to try to step out of that, though that's a symptom I think internet profiles being a main social touchstone have enabled, but the internet is a poor socializing medium.
@@krunkle5136 Oh no, being trans is a thing beyond just gender norms. But the gender norms are what cause like 95% of the problems for trans people, and a whole lot for cis people as well.
@@joda7697 not as much as news outlets or social media, hungry for ratings and likes. No one should be treated as sideshow freaks. Condolences.
@@krunkle5136 Who do you think enforces the gender roles? Yeah of course media hungry for ratings perpetrates all sorts of harmful and rigid views without nuance. Also other factors, authority figures who don't care, your own friend groups who don't know better, but media is a big part of it.
When i was in school, words like queer were insults. Now there are children at my children's school who feel safe to be publicly different. That's why i think we're seeing more trans identification in younger age groups. They feel safer with their peers than when i was their age.
Same with people being openly gay etc
yeah, well, that's going away fast, since conservatives are legalizing the dehumanization and oppression of trans people in broad daylight and normalizing anti trans violence.
Feeling safe with your peers is obviously a good thing. Nobody is going to argue against that.
But isn't it a stretch from "being queer and feeling safe with your peers" to "cutting off fully working body parts, using life changing hormones and sterilizing yourself"?
By simply focusing on words like safety or queer, you are evading the hard questions that need to be asked.
@@EaglePicking no I think you are just phrasing it in a crass and blunt manner for shock value
@@EaglePicking I was offering a suggestion as to why, as stated in the video, a greater proportion of young people self identify as trans. I offered no opinion as to how young people doing so should be treated.
The band, "The Kinks", which originated in the sixties had a hit song "Lola" : "Girls will be boys and boys will be girls, it's a mixed up muddled up shook up world,except for Lola...etc." The song and the lyrics are available on Utube....quite intriguing...🙂
one important thing that i think should be noted is that , puberty blockers wont show improvements in mental health. they will only show improvements VS a baseline. and as someone who had to go through a puberty that i didn't feel was right , you go downhill FAST vs someone who gets access to them. while most people know that their may be side effects for hormone blockers , they are nothing compared to the abject hatred , sadness and usual suicidal ideations that come with a "natural" puberty for a trans individual. im still on anti-depressants to this day as , while im waiting for my referral to the clinic (which is likely to take 4+ years) , i just had to endure the most horrid period of my life that i KNEW was preventable.
I disagree that the enforced right handed writing was a trivial change, I think that if you look deeper that you will find a significant increase in learning issues and school problems in those people forced to use their non dominant hand, often by corporal punishment.
The corporal punishment itself leads to learning (and many other) issues
I think you misunderstand what she meant by trivial change. It is a trivial change in that if you were to make someone write with their opposite hand for one day and then realize oops this was a bad idea they can go back to their other hand. Fundamental you're not doing anything to the other hand that causes damage. With gender-affirming care you can't undo many of the aspects of this care. As an example, A successful transition involves sterility.
You misunderstood the point she was trying to make mate
@@daxeckenberg Most Gender-Affirming care is a change of name and clothes. How is that harder than switching hands?
@@tfkia356 Care implies medical treatment. Anybody can change their clothes and name. That's not "care" in the context of this topic.
As a response to why there are more AFAB people identifying as trans in proportion to AMABs in adolescence, I would make the argument that since AFAB people start puberty earlier than AMABs, they have more time to figure out what characteristics about their body are bothering them and why. I also believe that it is still somewhat more stigmatized for AMAB people to be trans, or identify as LGBTQ+ (see current political discourse of AMAB trans and queer people being groomers, and media villanization dating back to the 80's). For these reasons, I believe that the amount of AMAB trans adolescents will eventually come closer to, or meet the number of AFAB adolescents.
Great points.
@@cristianproust or trans women are being killed more often than trans men. The real reason there's a "sudden surge" in transgender youth is that they arent being murdered as often, and the only reason there arent many trans adults is that AIDS killed most of them. Read a book.
@@cristianproust There is more empirical evidence of the relative unacceptability of trans women (painted as predators) than trans men (painted as victims) than there is that any social contagion is a widespread cause of dysphoria, and the hypothesis of acceptance explains both the increase and the gender disparity in that increase. If you ask trans people, all of them will say that acceptance is a conscious factor in why they are or are not out, in the timing of them coming out, and in who they come out to. This factor is as obvious and uncontroversial as anything can be here.
The hypothesis of social contagion explains nothing new, and there is no evidence for it that is not already explained by more obvious factors, why should anybody accept that hypothesis as any kind of substitute?
If you want to use social contagion as a contributing factor that operates alongside acceptance in explaining the increase, and assign some kind of weight to it based on evidence, you will find an incredibly tiny number, one that you will struggle to distinguish from zero, especially given current evidence.
The only evident use the social contagion hypothesis has is to induce outrage in those who are disgusted by trans people, it has no explanatory power.
this
plus trans women face significantly more backlash in this culture war, that is often (extremly misogynistically) framed as poor confused naive lesbians versus creepy male sex predators.
it's no wonder that this is a recent trend and once the winds shift and being transphobic becomes more and more socially unacceptable, like homophobia and racism are today, we would likely see this ratio settle at 1 again
the promo for a vpn blocker at the end had me thinking: though trans youth in the (uncontrolled) studies may not be experiencing a benefit from hormone blockers or other gender affirming care for depression, anxiety, etc, how can you tease apart their experience as trans people and the challenges they face in the world? challenges that cisgender people do not have, such as having to use a vpn block to conduct their research into their own health and safety? the challenge of having entire communities, people in positions of power, and faith leaders deny their existence? guess i'm just curious... how can one really quantify the well-being of trans people without trans existence being normalized?
23:33 _"you can switch a pen from one hand to the other and back within a few seconds and without lasting consequences; puberty blockers and hormone therapy are not as easy to undo"_
I'd say the left-handedness analogy is pretty solid from another perspective that you didn't mention, though: Forcing left-handed kids to use their right hand for stuff like writing causes long-term damage -- they tend to develop weird learning and speech disorders. And forcing trans kids to act out their assigned gender has similarly been shown to cause long-term damage. They can't simply "suck it up" and act right-handed/cisgender without lasting negative consequences.
Yeah that was pretty stupid... I'd advise Sabine to try "becoming lefthanded" and tell us if it's that easy.
agree, that was a weird analogy
A normative assessment would possess with it the abstract capability to make real observations such as (pi=3.14). You are not capable of doing this. Tell me what is the normal gender without telling me you are wrong
One kids excellent choice in transitioning early and making their lives better is another kids worst mistake in life, how do you tell them apart so that we help them both? That's why we need more science.
@@charlestwoo Sure, but this is why we take less drastic measures first (puberty blockers, which are mostly reversible) and see what happens, only allowing more drastic measures (surgery) if the gender dysphoria persists for years. And it's not like we hand out puberty blockers like tic-tacs either.
And this approach seems to work pretty well: reported regret rates for gender-affirming surgeries are extremely low, like 1%. That's fantastic for a surgical procedure, the regret rate for knee surgeries is like 20%.
Trans people are still rare where I live, but the few I've met have been very nice and seemed happy.
As far as I can tell, the vast majority of trans people are very sensitive and intelligent which unfortunately leaves a lot of room for neurotic tendencies and self criticism which is what leads to the feelings they have.
@@mintgumornothey man, describing a group of people like that, when you are not a Scientist referencing Actual Data, makes you sound like a lunatic.
but how about people about whose gender you are not so sure?
Those are the ones still alive...
@Terre Schill Thank you. I really don't get why it's such a stretch for people to understand that the hate is real and hate makes you hide. It can also just take a really long time to realise that "trans" is the name for a feeling of disconnect you've had your whole life.