Input vs output in language learning (with Adele Goldberg)
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- In the world of linguistics, there are very few people with a resume as impressive as Adele Goldberg.
She has had a major influence on the way we understand and study language.
In this very special interview we talk about vocabulary learning, input vs output, and her language acquisition research. I hope you enjoy it.
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Listen to the full interview here (or iTunes, or Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts): anchor.fm/canguro-english/epi...
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Learn more about Adele and her work here: adele.princeton.edu/
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She isn't a woman. She is a dream! Moreover, she knows so much useful and interesting information about languages and can explain it using quite simple words! Even I understood most of it. Thank you, Christian! It's a really interesting and beautiful interview.
For me, flashcarding works out very well because is just the way to know what does the word means in my language and to recognize it in context when I listen to content. Flashcards can't be the only way to learn vocab, it's just an help to the input. Of course, words have to be learnt in their contexts.
What an interview Christian!!!! Where do you find out these amazing people? I'm waiting a Live video. What do you think? Good vibes from Minas Gerais state, Brazil.
Thank you, Christian! What a fascinating interview - once again. You were talking about non-native speakers not willing to take into account ''competing alternative expressions'' at 14:50 mark. I have another observation. I notice that with the majority of adult learners there is a considerable pushback on learning synonyms or just alternative ways of expressing the same idea. A lot of times they will be wondering if they really need to learn this new expression when they are perfectly happy using that old one they already know. There is a resistance to learning alternative ways of saying the same thing. Not always, of course, but quite frequently. Thank you again!
Interesting observation! This self-imposed barrier needs to be broken!
These interviews always go a little over my head, I enjoy them, I just wish I knew more about linguistics :(
Well, why don't you learn (or is that ACQUIRE) lingistics?
Arousing is transitive; rising is intransitive. "Rising suspicions" would mean something completely different. "Raising suspicions" would be semantically identical, AND it works just fine in English.
Some of these interviews are pure gold.
I just adore that subtle background music starting in last seconds :)
Pleasure to watch this interview. They're outstanding stars of language teachers. I thumb up for their great performances in their work. I appreciate you Mr Christian.
I already love this woman and her work
So many congatulations, Christian. For this really interesting interview... and for finally finding a way to record and reproduce this fantástico work you are doing for us. Thank you very much.
Flashcard systems are a tool. Tools can be used in various ways. Not everyone who uses flashcards is making individual vocab cards. Actually, the vast majority of people are making i+1 sentence cards taken directly out of the raw language and in context for example, from conversations, books, and tv shows. The great thing about flashcards is that you can easily add audio and add dictionary definitions so it speeds up the whole learning process. The one downside is that it's boring. However, if you have things set up right it should only take 30 minutes a day but the rewards are enormous. I just broke 10,000 cards the other day (in the way I just described) and my Japanese is fluent and I can read pretty much anything and only after 2 years of study.
Thank you for the interview. It was amazing.
I like the input vs ouput, and the silent period. Ms. Goldberg made a point that makes a lot of sense to me about not doing output really early on taking a new language.
Thanks Christian for beautiful, updated and interesting content.
Amazing, fantastic and much more, I can not describe how I feel better after listening to you guys. Thanks
I really enjoy this kind of videos! thank you so much!
I'm wondered. Thx. You bring us so interesting interview. Thx, Adele Goldberg, too! My mind is burning up with a number of ideas.
Thank you! Big love from Romania
Thank you, Christian, for another great interview.
Amazing! Many thanks to all of you!
Christian, I thank you for this important lesson.
Thanks Christian for allowing us to encounter these well-known and succesful linguistics in the area of learning a language..This tutorial also shows us that acquiring a language is much more effective than educative learning tools..Acquiring a language takes time and we need to get through a process of learning both mentally and developmentally..
Your way of speaking is clear and slow which suits us as second language learners. Is that Queen Elizabeth behind you?😊
Her Majesty adorns my wall!
Fantastic video !
It gave me better vision of learning .
Thank you Christian.
Thanks for this video from Colombia.
Thank you for interview Christian!
My brain change to English more easily when I give to it some inputs like listening you talking or listen to the radio. After some minutes the output comes more easily like my brain shift some button. Speaking alone sometimes, not writing, because obviously I'm not good in writing... I'm thinking on how the second language is working for me. You videos are helping so much because you speak so clear that i can understand every word easily and even I can shadowing you. Thank you very much for spend your precious time doing this videos!
Excellent subject, thanks for both!
An excellent interview, full of insight explained very well.
Dear Christian, to be honest, I never heard such as beautiful words, *LANGUAGE IS THE ABILITY TO FORMULATE SENTENCES WITHOUT REFLECTING AT ALL*. That is amazing. Thank you very much for help. Marco ITALY
Adele and Christian, thanks a lot!
THANKYOU GREETINGS from México
A great video! You both are doing a great job here!
It's really amazing the way you make people (and me) aware of the fact what it means to learn a second language.
I am a guy from the Netherlands with an age of 55, so that means it's about 30 year ago I had my last English lessons on school.
And another thing, in that time we had no Internet or You Tube.
The level of teaching English at school wasn’t really good at that time.
Luckily we now have learned a lot about what is the most efficient or best way to teach a language.
After school I started to work and the only moments in my life I had the chance to speak English was at my vacations and in my work.
But in my work I nearly never spoke to native speakers, so that also wasn't really helpful to improve myself. The people I spoke for work usually spoke even worse English then me.
So now for the first time in my live I serious start to learn English.
The the way you are teaching and telling about all those very interesting backgrounds in the English language and even the difference in culture is real helpful for me and I think for many more people.
I think it might be essential information if you really want to understand a language.
Thanks for keeping me motivated!
So what I actually want to say, thanks for doing this in such a nice way. It’s indispensable for the world!
Best regards,
John
Your English is good) School level
Thank you Cristian!!!
Amazing! Thanks a lot.
Your piano playing is pretty good, too.
One of the best vids! full of insights. :)
Noor Azeelia Abdul Manan
Ok
Now you study English?
She was born in November 1963... she is almost 56... no way. Looks so much younger!
are you serious...?? Adele looks like she is 20-early 30's
Very useful insights !!
Great interview! Kudos! It looks like the brain is a huge machine mainly devoted to classify, recognize and reuse *conventions* . In the case of language, *social* ("relational" or "communicative") conventions. It just cares about them. If common, shared ("social") convention is "went", it acquires "went" and not "goed". It's all. No grammar involved at all. Grammar is the way we, adults, organize this stuff "a posterior", to make it easier to describe and to study.
BTW: You master what you practice. If you practice input (reading and listening) you master input. If you master output (writing and speaking) you master output. To master both, you have to practice both. Language is too large an object to deal with it as a whole.
This will be a long reply because I'm so passionate about this :) So I'm Swedish and so I started learning English in school as most countries do now and I have reflected before on why I stuck it out on English but gave up on German. I later in my 20s started sticking my nose into Japanese but that was put on hold and now in my 30s I'm seriously working on my third language which is Korean which triggered a few more questions like what mistakes did I make while learning English and how can I improve this journey. Well, as for English - I fell in love with a few musicians such as spice girls during the same year that I started learning as well as a few TV shows and for that I gained a huge motivator to succeed. With German there was no input so nothing meant anything.
As for errors I made while learning English as my second language I found two huge errors that I think is a normal process in a fabricated learning setting. One was that I had to learn, forget and relearn a lot of stuff that wasn't immediately important, and other was that while memorizing I was attaching new word means old word and by attaching a new word to an old word meant that I had to think twice as hard to speak. Let's say someone asks a question, then I had to cross reference the whole breakdown and convert the words into the first language, think of the answer to the jigsaw puzzle, convert back into the weaker language and then say it. My mind was exhausted within the first few seconds and reconstructing a direct path from hearing, process to reply without translation took way longer.
What I did this time around was to pretend that I have no language and take vocabulary words like names and attach straight to a mental picture instead of a word so that my mind can listen in pictures. With babies the parents ask a lot of questions like "do you want water or do you want juice?" Or "do you want the red or the blue crayon?" Those questions attach to images and the "do you want" is consistent so want, need, have and do are like a core foundation that vocabulary builds on for them. For a similar effect I broke down a starting point and that became small talk; directions, time, weather, status (hungry, bathroom, something hurts, emotion etc) and then hobbies and interest can build a small "home planet" to get your foot in the door and build confidence.
How I started off Korean was to binge watch youtube content of 1 show until the jibber jabber started to sound like a language and the language started to sound like words. Then I learned the "letters" of their writing system so that I could hear the letters in their sequence and waited some more. Within a week or two I found myself picking up the words hello, mom, dad, sister, brother, grandmother and grandfather and that's when I installed apps and got books but not to study but for exposure to be able to recognize familiarity when I hear it being used later. I'm not stressing about remembering a word the first time I encounter it since I know low frequency used words will stick when my mind is ready. The books is mostly to grow that instinct of the blueprint so that I know what order I'm listening in and other nitty gritty rules.
Lastly what helps me the absolute best with training the muscles in the tongue and throat for pronounciation is singing. I get to repeatedly put certain sounds in sequence and it is quite the workout! But just like how a commercial jingle or christmas jingle just sticks on it's own once you hear it enough times the songs and speech also just falls into place each time. :) Thinking too hard about it engages the "here and now" part of the brain but passive hearing filters into the environment processing so having the language play in the background can be surprisingly and oddly helpful in combination to your other efforts. And don't let correctness or error scare you away from talking, because if you go to a pharmacy in any country and know how to point and say ow or hurts in their language you will still get the right help. Intent matters the most in communication. :)
And for teachers - you can literally bring in a bunch of lego or crayons or something and have students ask at the table what color piece they want or need because I think the feeling of asking, response and immediate physical result is a very strong reinforcer.
Watching this in 2021 great video. I do use ANKI but with words in context and words in isolation (recall and recognition).
Great!!! Again...
Thanks.
Beautiful Adele, hello from the other side!)))
Hi Christian, yours videos very useful and anusual.
You doing a great job.
I wishing you good luck and happiness.
Hey, Eugene. What do you mean with "anusual"?
@@gustavodesmoura I think he means "Unusual"
But what he really means is "unique"
By nature, language studies have to isolate learning methods for comparison. But in practice you do not have to choose, “am I going to use flash cards or learn vocabulary in context?” It seems ideal that a person would spend maybe 10-20% of their time studying and reviewing flash cards, and at least 80% of their time learning sentences in context or something like that.
The problem with flashcards is that they only work if we introduce new words and expressions in context, Wich is pretty easy to do.
Great indeed!
Now I find myself wondering, did we just witness instances of English being nudged along an evolutionary path? I think that "Explain me this" is a brilliantly concise expression, and I'm going to start using it. It's conceivable to me that others may feel the same way, especially if they see this expression as a title on a bookstore shelf. It may well gain enough currency to become standard. And if 'crumbliness' wasn't already in my working vocabulary, it is now.
Dear,
Sir you are doing incredible job for us thanks a million. could you please arrange an interview with A. J. HOGE. He is also an incredible English Teacher, I am pretty sure that this interview would be amazing.
The negative observations about memorizing vocabulary by using flashcards assume that this is the final stage in someone's study of the words or the only strategy used. It also assumes that the ultimate goal of all vocabulary study is to use the words for speaking. In fact, students learn a great many words through flashcards for recognition only. And as the later comments about implicit learning and the power of memory indicate, that flash card study pays off handsomely in improved reading abilities. It is not wise to dismiss one of the oldest most successful language learning techniques. See Micheael Erard's book, Babel No More for impressive examples of learners who profited from use of flashcards.
Also, I have that feeling that they've never used good-compose flash-cards; because I use them only if they 1. were written with a context and examples 2. I have to type spelling of the word 3. they are accompanied by a sound. I have a variety of English vocabulary due to Flash-cards, at least this method account for 50% of my result.
The thing about flashcards is that they lack all but the most basic context. A drawing or photo doesn't provide as much context as a new word in the context of a sentence or better yet a story. Human beings learn their native languages purely from context because they have nothing to translate from. So our brains are adapted to learning language from context and this applies to additional languages as well. In my experience, we can memorize words and verb conjugations from flash cards or other non-contextual sources and we will remember them for a week or two but if they not immediately used in context they will not "stick" and we will have to keep learning them over and over again. If you learn them from context you will remember them even if you don't remember having learned them. That is the best kind of learning. Language as lived experience, not as an academic subject.
@@catrionatalbot Eminent language learning researcher Paul Nation has this to say "This [Use of flashcards] is a very effective learning procedure that is well supported by over 100 years of research (Griffin & Harley, 1996; Nation, 2001). There is now evidence that this learning directly contributes to implicit knowledge as well as explicit knowledge of vocabulary (Elgort, 2011 in press). This means that the kind of knowledge that is created by such learning is the kind of knowledge which is needed for normal language use....This kind of learning does not, of course, result in complete knowledge of the words, but results in an extremely important step forward in vocabulary knowledge."
@@dgilzow1 I know two things to be true. 1) When learning a new language I progress much faster and with much more enjoyment if I use comprehensible input in the target language; and 2) Children are amazingly proficient at learning their native language and they don't use flashcards or other artificial constructs. The methods they use work, and since I have started to imitate these methods my language-learning has been much more effective, much less frustrating and much more enjoyable.
Love the example Pope is a bachelor. Especially since the guest is talking to Christian :)
What do you think? I would like to suggest that learning the meanings of thousands of words by memorizing bilingual flashcards can be a relatively short-term effort for a skilled memorizer. I do believe that language acquisition is all about input, but only after I have memorized 2,000 common words, which takes me two weeks, two hours a day. It worked very well for me with Russian. Caveat: I actually enjoy memorizing vocabulary (receptive knowledge), and I would never suggest it to anyone who suffers from it.
Thanks for the great content on this channel!
Over all the interview I understand that how many vocabularies you know doesn't matter ... The matter is how you use those words in your conversation.
Great interview. I've read Explain Me This and I'm trying to keep in mind the ideas of constructions and competition in my French studies. I try to pick out conventional expressions and constructions and start applying them and looking out for them even if I don't immediately understand its parts. Rather than getting bogged down on the syntax or grammar of the construction/expression I simply accept it and keep in mind the context and the more I hear it the clearer its meaning becomes. This feels more organic than learning the literal definition off a list of "expressions" with no context.
Also...am I the only who thinks she sounds like Alexandra Occasio-Cortex?
Adele is here?! George Lakoff talked about her when i listened to his lecture about metaphor. Great!
She's a legend!
@@Canguroenglish Exactly! George's pet student.
Great! Are those necklaces tiny microphones?
True what the expert says.
As a Spanish speakers I have to fight and not say things like:
Explain me that.
I suggest you.
I recommend you... Etc.
she's smart.
Hi Christian. I want recommend you Lydia Machova for you new interview. Of course, if you want.
You can still learn things in context using SRS.
I could listen to you for hours. ...
Beautiful women!
@Canguro English 7:26-7:55 This seems to me an unfair, or oversimplified, representation of how many second language learners use SRS flashcard systems. Many do encourage learning them in context. In Anki, for example, you can (and many do) add example sentences or audio cards, especially from the content that they found the word in. This means they *are* learning them in context. I don't ever just look up random words that I think of. I only review words that I found *in the content I consume.* And many have successfully learned a second language using this method, which proves that it can work.
I enjoy these videos but as an English teacher, how can I apply them in my teaching? That’s my problem.
I'm working on the answer to that question. The revolution is coming.
I think the question is to think that our brain needs. Our brain has to get used to listening phrases in English within a context of common use. And repeat, repeat, repeat.
Teach words in context, teach vocabulary from frequency dictionaries, expose them to both hearing and listening to the language as much as possible. Use concepts like metaphor,polysemy, and metonymy to help explain concepts.
I can understand when I Listen to people or watching video but when it comes to speaking I can't use advance words , what should I do to overcome this ?
Christian, me again. I have two questions for you. 1. How many languages do you speak? 2. What makes you think language has anything to do with memory? I hope this will tickle you enough to respond. Keep well. Alexander.
I’m not sure about number but it feels like about half of -ed endings are “d” and lots of them are “t”.
8.54
There is sufficient evidence that we learn only by input.
!
I learnt sixty languages in one minute! It's true!
They were all second languages.
It's true!
Sort of.
.......nah, not really.
these are very academic deep analysis too much for simple language learner
Hi Christian!! Great lesson!
You look a little bit in love...?
The pope is a bachelor, though. Is that supposed to be obviously wrong?
first xd
interesting video btw !
You guys are complaining about flashcards because you don't know how to use them properly. Flashcards can provide context, audio, video, etc. Huge straw man.
Adele Goldberg is very nice woman, but her speech isn’t very understandable for me.
it's not her speech isn't very understandable, her speech is so clear and understandable. You just need a bit more high level and to listen to native speakers a lot
I am afraid nothing practical was said....
Nice speech but horrible body language