There is one other thing missing from the Stage Boxes, and that is the ability to control this unit with a 'Surface Control Mixer" that use the Mackie/HUI protocols.
Yes, good point, the remote control options are not as comprehensive as they could be. For me I'd settle for a midi port for a hardware mixer. But you can't have everything in life. Thanks for a good spot. Ta like, ppm6.
Bought this thing because of the amazing ability to input my external instruments into Studio One and be able to EQ and place plugins on them w/o having to track them as audio. Unfortunately, I immediately started having lots of crazy problems with Studio One ending in not even being able to get some of the outs of the thing working. I finally just unplugged the thing and went back to using my analog mixing board and all the crazy problems are gone.
Hi, I have only used the 16R with Studio One as a multitrack recorder without plugins etc. Have you reached out to Presonus support or tried the forum for help? Ta like, ppm6.
I think so too. The recent software upgrade has been very helpful. And with the new stage boxes coming and the EarMix already here - the infrastructure options keep getting better. Let us know how you get on.
Hi James - The 16R has an 18x18 USB recording interface and a 32x32 AVB recording interface - great if you have a thunderbolt Mac. There are some limitations on AVB recording if you have a console and a rackmount like the 16R in stagebox mode. Lucky you, I don't have a console so I haven't run into that problem. I have found sometimes my Mac needs a reboot to see the 16R as a network audio device.
Around 13.09 I notice you mentioned a USB Send (on channel 17 and 18). Can I run MONO backing tracks from an SD card with the click on one side going to the band's in ears, and the backing tracks going to FOH on the other?
Hi Dr. Mobius - I've sat down this evening to test the proposition above. First the SD card implementation was always one of the weaker points of the 16R when I first got mine and and so I haven't spent much time with it. And to be honest my latest experience hasn't filled me with joy. First if you put a card in that the SD reader doesn't like then Universal Control disappears the Card record/playback icon from the screen. Which kind of makes sense but actually I would rather an error message! Next card it reads but I see know way of loading prerecorded files from the card - you have to create the files live in the 16R. So much for my prerecorded click/music track. Then I get it to record and now it refuses to play back the project. However in theory your plan should work fine. You can assign left and right playback channels from the card to two tracks on your mixer and then send those tracks to separate Aux mixes - click track for the band and backing tracks to the Main output. Should work. You can of course connect a computer, load the tracks in to your favourite DAW ,and play them back over USB or AVB and still record the other 14 tracks. If you use Capture then Universal Control offers you basic but handy control. You can set flags and jump to them, arm record tracks and engage play and record. But I suspect you are looking for the smallest footprint rig and to avoid the complexities of an attached machine. I think it is a good idea and I'm going keep at it to see if I'm just doing something stupid. And I'll up date this if I get a breakthrough. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for this! Coincidentally Presonus themselves got back to me yesterday and said a similar thing. I've attached their response below: Presonus: The SD Card for the Rackmounted StudioLives will record a L/R pair of outputs of your choice from the StudioLive and playback said recording. The SD Card will not playback other audio such as personal WAV/MP3 files that have been put on the SD Card- it is strictly for recording an output pair and playing back the recording. Looks like I have to drag my laptop on the road from the sounds of it!
I have the 24R, the one thing is there isn't led levels for gain. So there's no visual on input overload-very weird. Even a overload/ input light for the universal control surface would be nice.
Doug you are dead right, a hardware overload led would be great. And some manufacturers fit multi colour leds so you can have a simple traffic light level display. Thanks for a great spot! Hope you are enjoying the 24R. Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks Vincenzo - first question - do you mean record of playback? Are you trying record into your daw and want to hear inputs 11 and 12 or are you playing back from your software and you want to play back into channels 11 and 12 on the 16R. I'm assuming you are connected by USB (and not AVB) are you running on PC or MacOS? Ta like, ppm6.
Apologies for length of answer. But you probably need to focus in on what exactly you want to do - is it mainly mixing or mainly as a record interface or what balance of the two? I paid real money for the 16R and I don't regret it. I have Studio One Pro - and I think it is wonderful. I think Artist is a great starting place. And of course you get Capture too. The challenge for all of us is always - what else could I get for the money? I love MOTU gear but to get 16 mic amps in MOTU will cost you many more dollars. The Allen & Heath Qu SB is a couple of hundred more without a DAW. Behringer X32 Rack is certainly a tough contender, a bit cheaper but again no DAW. One limitation of the 16R is only two effects processors and another is no midi for hardware control. One advantage - the size of the Presonus eco system. Earmix, stageboxes, software - bigger mixers - it has a lot going for it. My worry is always that in trying to keep the cost down I end up spending more money. For me the key product from a mixer perspective is the Allen and Heath SQ5 - that is such a game changer if I end up spending 75% of an SQ-5 I'm in trouble.I haven't so far. I guess for me the feature I really wanted was AVB - I wanted to be able to mix Presonus with MOTU, I wanted to be able to have my interface/mixer - down Cat5 to the computer. The thing I've learned the hard way is that I do still miss hands on control on a mixer - so the Allen and Heath QuPac is a very tempting buy (and again the Behringer - I had an X32 but the menus drove me mad!). But that is true mainly if you want a mixer that occasionally does interface duties.If you want an interface that occasionally does mixer duties the one U 16R with AVB is boss - remember you need to be on a Mac to get the AVB goodness. So I should say if you are not on a Mac then the attractiveness of the 16R goes down a bit! And we haven't talked about 96Khz - if that is a deal breaker for you - you need to pass by on the other side!
Got the 24R, 24 1/4 inch jacks!!! Up to 12 stereo instruments lol, so for a synth and drumachine collector, this thing is a dream. I don't need a huge desktop mixer in my small apt so using a tablet will be sick
ppm6.tv The routing and setup was not very inuitive for newbs, but for such a versatile machine, I wouldn't expect any less. First activating the output monitors hidden in the main menu, figuring out the digital return for windows, and patching Ableton to the aux input was very very hard to figure out initially but now it's done 😂. Also figured out to sample windows audio in Ableton which is pretty dang cool.
Thanks Daniel, I think routing in such flexible mixers is going to be tricky - there's such a lot of information to display it can easily get confusion. Sounds like you have it sorted so well done there. Ta like ppm6.
This mixer is on auction after a big music store went bankrupt due to Covid19. There is allot of ineteresting gear. On Sunday I make sure some of that come home to me.
Hi Jack, sorry I've been away. Hope the auction works out and you bring home a tasty Presonus 16R and maybe some other goodies, let us know. Ta like ppm6
Hi Aguerridoz, I'm not a protools user sorry. But I think ProTools can use any interface that is plugged into your pc or mac. However If you are doing live multitrack then Presonus has a free tool called Capture. It works with their interfaces and is designed just to 'capture' live gigs. It runs on Windows or Mac - it is very simple and designed to do one job only - make multitrack recordings! One you have the files recorded - load them into ProTools for your mix. Ta ppm6.
Great review. For people intending to use it for live sound, i strongly advise against it, mostly because the remote control software (UC) has many shortcomings (especially compared to the Behringer/Midas XM32 consoles equivalent), and some are just way too serious for professional use : - the PEQ section is way too small - there is no offline editor - not enough tap point options for sends to busses : for instance you can't have it post EQ but pre compressor/limiter, or you can't have it post gate but pre EQ/comp/limiter. This really sucks if you're using the console for both FOH and MON at the same time. The Behringer/Midas XM32 is way better than this.
Thanks for taking the time to lay down some important detail. I think of your three points personally I'm not so bothered abut offline - as I have access to the 16R all the time. Though I can see not everyone will be in that position. Good point about PEQ but for me the tap point is likely the biggest stumbling block. Good spots all. Ta like, ppm6.
And that's why the more real world user info we have - the better things are. One interesting observation is that development in this segment of the market has slowed. A lot of the kit remains unrefreshed. Where is the rack mount A&H product based on SQ? And shouldn't the Wing rack have dropped by now? Which reminds me if the 16R had midi then adding a hardware fader solution would be easier. Anyway thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.
What i'm missing most is a MIDI learn fonction (at least) for the faders. Faderport 8 and 16 can now work in MIDI mode and it would be so nice to control the Studio live faders from them. I don't see why it would be impossible, but I suppose Presonus doesn't want to implement that for commercial reason. Shame!
Hi EG - the 16R can be used just like any normal usb audio interface. However it can also be controlled over a network - just plug your cat 5 in the back - and then any device on the network that can run UC (including iPads etc) can control it. What you can't really do is use it as a stand alone mixer. It doesn't have midi which would have been nice. But you can't have everything. Hope that helps, ppm6
Hi Ekekwe - now that is a good question! Sadly the 16R doesn't support midi. The MOTU B16 isn't 1U motu.com/products/avb/stage-b16/specs.html The A&H Qu-SB is a funny shape! www.allen-heath.com/qu-series/qu-sb/ X32 Rack is 2U.... You've really got me stumped. If any brilliant ideas come to me I'll certainly pass them on. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Ekekwe - good news the Midas M32-C is a one U midi controllable mixer - www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Midas-M32C-Digital-Rack-Mixer/2KXC The bad news is you need some AES 50 stage boxes to get your audio in to it! Ta like, ppm6.
Love your review of the 16R. I am thinking of replacing my 16.0.2 Firewire mixer with one of these. I'm not too clear on whether the mix outs on the 16r could be used as separate headphone mixes sent to my 6 channel headphone amp?
Hi Bill, The 16R has 8 outputs in all. The main outputs on XLR and 6 Aux outputs on 1/4" jack. When you fire up the Universal Control software you default into the main mix page which shows you your 16 mix inputs to the main outputs. You select an Aux mix with an on screen button and your faders are now driving that Aux output. So for your six channel headphone amp it would be a pretty good match. I enjoy using universal control - it's good software and Presonus keep the upgrades coming, however I would think very carefully before giving up the faders and hardware controls that you enjoy on the 16.0.2 I was recording a worship band on the weekend and I have the DAW (DP10) on my old Macbook Air and my iPad connected with Duet acting as a second screen with touch control of the 16R. But if you reach for the trim gain on the iPad screen and your finger slips or the 'touch' doesn't quite do what you thought it would do - you could easily take 20dB off your mic live! I do wish the 16R had midi so I could plug in a hardware controller. The other thing worth bearing in mind is you only get two effects processors in the 16R - if you love putting different reverbs on everything you might run out of steam. Having said that - you get Capture free so multitrack recording with a computer is a snip and 16 inputs plus the AVB, which I'm a big fan of, in such a light weight portable solution is really something. I hope I haven't made your decision harder! A question I should have asked earlier, are you thinking of live or studio use or both? Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you so much for your response. Actually, I would only be using it in my home studio. I rarely use the onboard fx on the 16.0.2 so that's a non issue. With firewire fading away, I'm thinking of moving to the USB interface, plus having the SD Card option is nice. Another factor is desk space. With the 16R I gain a bit of desk space back. I would not get rid of the 16.0.2 but I guess I'm kind of downsizing (but not really). Thanks again for your input. Good stuff.
Thanks Bill, I agree about firewire fading, though they say that a Mac with a thunderbolt port can talk to firewire with a dongle, haven't tried it myself. You're right about desk space the 16R is 1U and has a nice flat top for balancing things on! Remember the onboard SD Card recorder is stereo, I think the bigger models the 24R and 32R have multitrack recording to the SD card. Have lots of fun and let me know how it goes if you pull the trigger. Every blessing, ppm6.
G'day, great video and thanks for sharing. I have some questions. Can you record to the SD card and Logic (Or any other recording software) at the same time? Also, is the USB 2 as good as firewire or thunderbolt? Thanks in advance.
Hi Lang - enjoyed the Jolene cover! I don't use onboard SD recording much. On the rackmount mixers the SD recorders only record a stereo mix. And it's the bit of the software interface (Universal Control) I like least and I still find it a bit clunky and sometimes it hangs.Now that might be my ham fisted button pushing but I don't love it. So to answer your question I fired up Presonus Capture which is a free download (for hardware customers I think) and integrates right into Universal Control. The 16R has 18 USB outputs to the computer or 32 AVB outputs that Capture can access so you can multitrack your gig to your laptop without a problem. The great thing is Universal Control 'Sees' Capture and allows you to arm channels and hit record from within UC. I slung a few mics into the 16R this afternoon and struggled a bit with routing the USB outputs from the channels (I had made extensive changes of routing with AVB and is something I need to return to) and routed the main mix to the SD recorder and hit record on both and both worked just as they should. Then I managed to hang the SD recorder on the 16R .... USB2 will carry 18 channels of 48Khz audio without a problem - assuming the computer is reasonably well set up for audio and your not loading the CPU or the USB bus with tonnes of other stuff. Firewire has gone really. I'm new to Thunderbolt - check out my MOTU 112D video - the 112D is my first Thunderbolt interface. Latency should be lower with Thunderbolt but if latency is a deal breaker you need to invest some time doing homework. USB drivers vary widely in latency and I have no idea what the variation is for Thunderbolt interfaces. Also having your computer set up right makes a big difference. If you live in MacOS world Thunderbolt is pretty much everywhere, PC world is a bit different. My PC has Thunderbolt 3 ports and my 112D is TB2 and I haven't got round to buying the converter it's expensive. Again if you are in MacOS world - you will probably have AVB which is low latency high channel count and works over standard Cat5e - and the mixer could be on the stage and the laptop a 100m away. The only problem is no one cares about AVB! Sorry for the rambling reply. PPM6
Hi Mark, you can indeed. Although Presonus bill this as a mixer - it is also a USB interface and you get lots of I/O with the one proviso that the only digital is AVB. But you are on a Mac so that might work for you. Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks Jack - I am lazy about checking out the Presonus website - though I have downloaded some of their freebees. The 16R only has 2 effects engines while the lucky people with the 24R and 32R get 4 effects engines. Still gives me something to put on my Christmas list! Ta like, ppm6.
Hey ppm6.tv. Thank you so much for this comprehensive review! I've been looking to pick this mixer up. Love the form factor and wireless capability. I did have a question regarding the geq you talked about at roughly 09:10 and whether they have added the option to select pickoff points for it? I usually like putting all lapel mics onto a group and using the geq to kill problem frequencies. Is there a workaround for this? Again thank you :)
Hi Amir, on the latest software you can configure the flexmixes (1-6) as submixes and then send them to the main. This allows access to the normal parametric EQ on each of these mixes. You can also apply one of the eight GEQs to the submix. However the GEQ seems to be after the send to the Main so this will be applied to the physical output of the submix but not the send to the main. You could of course sacrifice a channel and bring this output back into your mix through a physical input. This seems like an odd restriction, I'll do some digging. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you Sir. I think your last point is what I would have to go with. Another two queries are whether in the past two years if you've faced any issues with the software itself in a live context i.e crashes, glitches etc and whether the sd card 2track recording option can run simultaneously with the multitrack to usb with different levels?( To do away with using a tascam/zoom recorder ) Again thanks for your response, I'll stop bothering you now :)
Hi Amir - I haven't had any issues with crashing or locking up but I would always recommend an internet wide search, just in case! I have used the 2 track recorder but it in my view it is a strange interface and an unwieldy thing. I don't use it now I rely on a Zoom F6 and the USB. If you have a recent Mac you could also record over AVB. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Dane, sorry for the delay but I've been away. Yes the headphone tap for both Main and Aux outputs is pre the GEQ. I downloaded the latest firmware to confirm this hasn't changed and indeed it has not.
@@teoibarra4183 Hi Teo - hard to trouble shoot by text message. The meters in the UC app are pre fader. First plug a mic in - and set the level - do you see level on the meters? Open the fader - you should see the audio on the main output and hear it on the main outputs when you open the main fader. Make sure you have all GEQ and processing switched off. Click on Aux 1 button to see the Aux 1 mix. Check the mic level is there prefader, and then open mic fader and check you can see the level on the Aux 1 main. Fade up Aux 1 main. Go to settings - Gear Icon on top right. Find Phones Cue Source and set it to Mix 1. Plug your headphones into the front panel and turn the volume up you should be able to hear your Aux 1 mix. Next plug your headphones into the Aux 1 jack on the back of the mixer. You should hear your microphone.
Hi Christian - Yes both the 24 and the 32 also do multi track recording - they both have 40 track USB recording and 55 track AVB recording to a computer. As well as the on board stereo SD card recorder.
Hi Teo - I think the 16R is first and foremost a live sound mixer. However the preamps are pretty good and you could use it in a simple studio set up with the mulitrack recording options of USB or AVB. What did you have in mind?
Hi Teo, the answer to that is not simple. You are mixing on an ipad or a laptop - I have used both together! In terms of control of faders you will never beat one physical fader per input - it is just the best way to do things. On the other hand thousands of engineers are now mixing on Presonus and similar App controlled hardware. First thing - find someone who has a Presonus or something similar and try it. Let us know how you get on.
For people intending to use it for live sound, i strongly advise against it, mostly because the remote control software (UC) has many shortcomings (especially compared to the Behringer/Midas XM32 consoles equivalent), and some are just way too serious for professional use : - the PEQ section is way too small - there is no offline editor - not enough tap point options for sends to busses : for instance you can't have it post EQ but pre compressor/limiter, or you can't have it post gate but pre EQ/comp/limiter. This really sucks if you're using the console for both FOH and MON at the same time. The Behringer/Midas XM32 is way better than this.
Thanks Amer - The new DLs mixers from Mackie certainly look very interesting - hope to get one to give them a spin. I can't see any reference to sample rates - would be good if they did 96KHz. You do get 4 FX processors which is a big boost. The 'What's MIssing' on a very quick scan of the specs is digital snake. The Presonus can be part of an AVB network - use remote stage boxes - be a stage box for another Presonus mixer - use Earmix hardware monitor mixers and record straight to your Mac over a single Cat5e. Good for us to have choices and options I say.
Thanks. Not too many other people making videos about this product other than you and a few others. I plan on helping out with that.
Hi how is your Presonus holding up?
There is one other thing missing from the Stage Boxes, and that is the ability to control this unit with a 'Surface Control Mixer" that use the Mackie/HUI protocols.
Yes, good point, the remote control options are not as comprehensive as they could be. For me I'd settle for a midi port for a hardware mixer. But you can't have everything in life. Thanks for a good spot. Ta like, ppm6.
Bought this thing because of the amazing ability to input my external instruments into Studio One and be able to EQ and place plugins on them w/o having to track them as audio. Unfortunately, I immediately started having lots of crazy problems with Studio One ending in not even being able to get some of the outs of the thing working. I finally just unplugged the thing and went back to using my analog mixing board and all the crazy problems are gone.
Hi, I have only used the 16R with Studio One as a multitrack recorder without plugins etc. Have you reached out to Presonus support or tried the forum for help? Ta like, ppm6.
Just ordered one of these. I think it will work great.
I think so too. The recent software upgrade has been very helpful. And with the new stage boxes coming and the EarMix already here - the infrastructure options keep getting better. Let us know how you get on.
You can make multitrack recordings through the USB port?or is it just a 2 track recorder like the SD Card recorder?
Hi James - The 16R has an 18x18 USB recording interface and a 32x32 AVB recording interface - great if you have a thunderbolt Mac. There are some limitations on AVB recording if you have a console and a rackmount like the 16R in stagebox mode. Lucky you, I don't have a console so I haven't run into that problem. I have found sometimes my Mac needs a reboot to see the 16R as a network audio device.
Thank you for your answer. Can you record over wireless conection to the computer or just USB and AVB?
USB and AVB only
Around 13.09 I notice you mentioned a USB Send (on channel 17 and 18). Can I run MONO backing tracks from an SD card with the click on one side going to the band's in ears, and the backing tracks going to FOH on the other?
Good point - I will check and get back to you. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Dr. Mobius - I've sat down this evening to test the proposition above. First the SD card implementation was always one of the weaker points of the 16R when I first got mine and and so I haven't spent much time with it. And to be honest my latest experience hasn't filled me with joy. First if you put a card in that the SD reader doesn't like then Universal Control disappears the Card record/playback icon from the screen. Which kind of makes sense but actually I would rather an error message! Next card it reads but I see know way of loading prerecorded files from the card - you have to create the files live in the 16R. So much for my prerecorded click/music track. Then I get it to record and now it refuses to play back the project.
However in theory your plan should work fine. You can assign left and right playback channels from the card to two tracks on your mixer and then send those tracks to separate Aux mixes - click track for the band and backing tracks to the Main output. Should work.
You can of course connect a computer, load the tracks in to your favourite DAW ,and play them back over USB or AVB and still record the other 14 tracks. If you use Capture then Universal Control offers you basic but handy control. You can set flags and jump to them, arm record tracks and engage play and record. But I suspect you are looking for the smallest footprint rig and to avoid the complexities of an attached machine.
I think it is a good idea and I'm going keep at it to see if I'm just doing something stupid. And I'll up date this if I get a breakthrough. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for this! Coincidentally Presonus themselves got back to me yesterday and said a similar thing. I've attached their response below:
Presonus: The SD Card for the Rackmounted StudioLives will record a L/R pair of outputs of your choice from the StudioLive and playback said recording.
The SD Card will not playback other audio such as personal WAV/MP3 files that have been put on the SD Card- it is strictly for recording an output pair and playing back the recording.
Looks like I have to drag my laptop on the road from the sounds of it!
I have the 24R, the one thing is there isn't led levels for gain. So there's no visual on input overload-very weird. Even a overload/ input light for the universal control surface would be nice.
Doug you are dead right, a hardware overload led would be great. And some manufacturers fit multi colour leds so you can have a simple traffic light level display. Thanks for a great spot! Hope you are enjoying the 24R. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi, how did you set the computer to channel 11 and 12, I can't and my pc is tuned to channel 1 and 2 and I can't change them, thanks.
Thanks Vincenzo - first question - do you mean record of playback? Are you trying record into your daw and want to hear inputs 11 and 12 or are you playing back from your software and you want to play back into channels 11 and 12 on the 16R. I'm assuming you are connected by USB (and not AVB) are you running on PC or MacOS?
Ta like, ppm6.
So do you think the package deal of the 16R with the studio one artist is worth it?
Apologies for length of answer.
But you probably need to focus in on what exactly you want to do - is it mainly mixing or mainly as a record interface or what balance of the two?
I paid real money for the 16R and I don't regret it. I have Studio One Pro - and I think it is wonderful. I think Artist is a great starting place. And of course you get Capture too.
The challenge for all of us is always - what else could I get for the money? I love MOTU gear but to get 16 mic amps in MOTU will cost you many more dollars. The Allen & Heath Qu SB is a couple of hundred more without a DAW. Behringer X32 Rack is certainly a tough contender, a bit cheaper but again no DAW. One limitation of the 16R is only two effects processors and another is no midi for hardware control. One advantage - the size of the Presonus eco system. Earmix, stageboxes, software - bigger mixers - it has a lot going for it.
My worry is always that in trying to keep the cost down I end up spending more money. For me the key product from a mixer perspective is the Allen and Heath SQ5 - that is such a game changer if I end up spending 75% of an SQ-5 I'm in trouble.I haven't so far.
I guess for me the feature I really wanted was AVB - I wanted to be able to mix Presonus with MOTU, I wanted to be able to have my interface/mixer - down Cat5 to the computer.
The thing I've learned the hard way is that I do still miss hands on control on a mixer - so the Allen and Heath QuPac is a very tempting buy (and again the Behringer - I had an X32 but the menus drove me mad!). But that is true mainly if you want a mixer that occasionally does interface duties.If you want an interface that occasionally does mixer duties the one U 16R with AVB is boss - remember you need to be on a Mac to get the AVB goodness. So I should say if you are not on a Mac then the attractiveness of the 16R goes down a bit!
And we haven't talked about 96Khz - if that is a deal breaker for you - you need to pass by on the other side!
Got the 24R, 24 1/4 inch jacks!!! Up to 12 stereo instruments lol, so for a synth and drumachine collector, this thing is a dream. I don't need a huge desktop mixer in my small apt so using a tablet will be sick
Thanks Daniel. the 24R will be a great buy for you. I have the 16R and I think you get an another two effects engines in the 24R. Ta like ppm6.
ppm6.tv The routing and setup was not very inuitive for newbs, but for such a versatile machine, I wouldn't expect any less. First activating the output monitors hidden in the main menu, figuring out the digital return for windows, and patching Ableton to the aux input was very very hard to figure out initially but now it's done 😂. Also figured out to sample windows audio in Ableton which is pretty dang cool.
Thanks Daniel, I think routing in such flexible mixers is going to be tricky - there's such a lot of information to display it can easily get confusion. Sounds like you have it sorted so well done there. Ta like ppm6.
This mixer is on auction after a big music store went bankrupt due to Covid19. There is allot of ineteresting gear. On Sunday I make sure some of that come home to me.
Hi Jack, sorry I've been away. Hope the auction works out and you bring home a tasty Presonus 16R and maybe some other goodies, let us know. Ta like ppm6
Hello is this comparable with pro tools?
I’m planing to record live multitrack. Please let me know. Thanks!
Hi Aguerridoz, I'm not a protools user sorry. But I think ProTools can use any interface that is plugged into your pc or mac. However If you are doing live multitrack then Presonus has a free tool called Capture. It works with their interfaces and is designed just to 'capture' live gigs. It runs on Windows or Mac - it is very simple and designed to do one job only - make multitrack recordings! One you have the files recorded - load them into ProTools for your mix. Ta ppm6.
Great review.
For people intending to use it for live sound, i strongly advise against it, mostly because the remote control software (UC) has many shortcomings (especially compared to the Behringer/Midas XM32 consoles equivalent), and some are just way too serious for professional use :
- the PEQ section is way too small
- there is no offline editor
- not enough tap point options for sends to busses : for instance you can't have it post EQ but pre compressor/limiter, or you can't have it post gate but pre EQ/comp/limiter. This really sucks if you're using the console for both FOH and MON at the same time.
The Behringer/Midas XM32 is way better than this.
Thanks for taking the time to lay down some important detail. I think of your three points personally I'm not so bothered abut offline - as I have access to the 16R all the time. Though I can see not everyone will be in that position. Good point about PEQ but for me the tap point is likely the biggest stumbling block. Good spots all. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk You're welcome. Of course in some other contexts (like yours), all the problems i've pointed out have little significance :)
And that's why the more real world user info we have - the better things are. One interesting observation is that development in this segment of the market has slowed. A lot of the kit remains unrefreshed. Where is the rack mount A&H product based on SQ? And shouldn't the Wing rack have dropped by now? Which reminds me if the 16R had midi then adding a hardware fader solution would be easier. Anyway thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.
Thanks for the review. Get a microfiber cloth to clean your laptop screen before the next video. :-)
Ha ha, thanks Todd. I think what I need to do is work out how to use the screen capture software properly! Ta like.
What i'm missing most is a MIDI learn fonction (at least) for the faders. Faderport 8 and 16 can now work in MIDI mode and it would be so nice to control the Studio live faders from them. I don't see why it would be impossible, but I suppose Presonus doesn't want to implement that for commercial reason. Shame!
Hi Michelotto - I agree midi control would be a top feature. Ta like, ppm6.
has there been any update in this space in the last two years? I have a Faderport (1 fader)
Does it also work as a normal audio interface, or is the UC always in control of it and I have to open it on my mac?
Hi EG - the 16R can be used just like any normal usb audio interface. However it can also be controlled over a network - just plug your cat 5 in the back - and then any device on the network that can run UC (including iPads etc) can control it. What you can't really do is use it as a stand alone mixer. It doesn't have midi which would have been nice. But you can't have everything. Hope that helps, ppm6
Sir are there 1u mixers of nice sound quality that also supports midi control? I'm hunting for one
Hi Ekekwe - now that is a good question! Sadly the 16R doesn't support midi. The MOTU B16 isn't 1U
motu.com/products/avb/stage-b16/specs.html
The A&H Qu-SB is a funny shape!
www.allen-heath.com/qu-series/qu-sb/
X32 Rack is 2U....
You've really got me stumped. If any brilliant ideas come to me I'll certainly pass them on. Ta like, ppm6.
Hi Ekekwe - good news the Midas M32-C is a one U midi controllable mixer -
www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Midas-M32C-Digital-Rack-Mixer/2KXC
The bad news is you need some AES 50 stage boxes to get your audio in to it! Ta like, ppm6.
Thank you sir you're doing well!
Love your review of the 16R. I am thinking of replacing my 16.0.2 Firewire mixer with one of these. I'm not too clear on whether the mix outs on the 16r could be used as separate headphone mixes sent to my 6 channel headphone amp?
Hi Bill, The 16R has 8 outputs in all. The main outputs on XLR and 6 Aux outputs on 1/4" jack. When you fire up the Universal Control software you default into the main mix page which shows you your 16 mix inputs to the main outputs. You select an Aux mix with an on screen button and your faders are now driving that Aux output. So for your six channel headphone amp it would be a pretty good match.
I enjoy using universal control - it's good software and Presonus keep the upgrades coming, however I would think very carefully before giving up the faders and hardware controls that you enjoy on the 16.0.2 I was recording a worship band on the weekend and I have the DAW (DP10) on my old Macbook Air and my iPad connected with Duet acting as a second screen with touch control of the 16R. But if you reach for the trim gain on the iPad screen and your finger slips or the 'touch' doesn't quite do what you thought it would do - you could easily take 20dB off your mic live!
I do wish the 16R had midi so I could plug in a hardware controller.
The other thing worth bearing in mind is you only get two effects processors in the 16R - if you love putting different reverbs on everything you might run out of steam.
Having said that - you get Capture free so multitrack recording with a computer is a snip and 16 inputs plus the AVB, which I'm a big fan of, in such a light weight portable solution is really something.
I hope I haven't made your decision harder! A question I should have asked earlier, are you thinking of live or studio use or both?
Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you so much for your response. Actually, I would only be using it in my home studio. I rarely use the onboard fx on the 16.0.2 so that's a non issue. With firewire fading away, I'm thinking of moving to the USB interface, plus having the SD Card option is nice. Another factor is desk space. With the 16R I gain a bit of desk space back. I would not get rid of the 16.0.2 but I guess I'm kind of downsizing (but not really). Thanks again for your input. Good stuff.
Thanks Bill, I agree about firewire fading, though they say that a Mac with a thunderbolt port can talk to firewire with a dongle, haven't tried it myself. You're right about desk space the 16R is 1U and has a nice flat top for balancing things on! Remember the onboard SD Card recorder is stereo, I think the bigger models the 24R and 32R have multitrack recording to the SD card. Have lots of fun and let me know how it goes if you pull the trigger. Every blessing, ppm6.
G'day, great video and thanks for sharing. I have some questions. Can you record to the SD card and Logic (Or any other recording software) at the same time?
Also, is the USB 2 as good as firewire or thunderbolt?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Lang - enjoyed the Jolene cover! I don't use onboard SD recording much. On the rackmount mixers the SD recorders only record a stereo mix. And it's the bit of the software interface (Universal Control) I like least and I still find it a bit clunky and sometimes it hangs.Now that might be my ham fisted button pushing but I don't love it.
So to answer your question I fired up Presonus Capture which is a free download (for hardware customers I think) and integrates right into Universal Control. The 16R has 18 USB outputs to the computer or 32 AVB outputs that Capture can access so you can multitrack your gig to your laptop without a problem. The great thing is Universal Control 'Sees' Capture and allows you to arm channels and hit record from within UC. I slung a few mics into the 16R this afternoon and struggled a bit with routing the USB outputs from the channels (I had made extensive changes of routing with AVB and is something I need to return to) and routed the main mix to the SD recorder and hit record on both and both worked just as they should. Then I managed to hang the SD recorder on the 16R ....
USB2 will carry 18 channels of 48Khz audio without a problem - assuming the computer is reasonably well set up for audio and your not loading the CPU or the USB bus with tonnes of other stuff. Firewire has gone really. I'm new to Thunderbolt - check out my MOTU 112D video - the 112D is my first Thunderbolt interface. Latency should be lower with Thunderbolt but if latency is a deal breaker you need to invest some time doing homework. USB drivers vary widely in latency and I have no idea what the variation is for Thunderbolt interfaces. Also having your computer set up right makes a big difference.
If you live in MacOS world Thunderbolt is pretty much everywhere, PC world is a bit different. My PC has Thunderbolt 3 ports and my 112D is TB2 and I haven't got round to buying the converter it's expensive. Again if you are in MacOS world - you will probably have AVB which is low latency high channel count and works over standard Cat5e - and the mixer could be on the stage and the laptop a 100m away. The only problem is no one cares about AVB! Sorry for the rambling reply. PPM6
Hi all , can I use this interface with logic ?
Hi Mark, you can indeed. Although Presonus bill this as a mixer - it is also a USB interface and you get lots of I/O with the one proviso that the only digital is AVB. But you are on a Mac so that might work for you. Ta like, ppm6.
You can have more FX. You can get few free from presonus website, or buy FX. there are single FX as well as packs of FX avaliable.
Thanks Jack - I am lazy about checking out the Presonus website - though I have downloaded some of their freebees. The 16R only has 2 effects engines while the lucky people with the 24R and 32R get 4 effects engines. Still gives me something to put on my Christmas list! Ta like, ppm6.
Hey ppm6.tv. Thank you so much for this comprehensive review! I've been looking to pick this mixer up. Love the form factor and wireless capability. I did have a question regarding the geq you talked about at roughly 09:10 and whether they have added the option to select pickoff points for it? I usually like putting all lapel mics onto a group and using the geq to kill problem frequencies. Is there a workaround for this?
Again thank you :)
Hi Amir, on the latest software you can configure the flexmixes (1-6) as submixes and then send them to the main. This allows access to the normal parametric EQ on each of these mixes. You can also apply one of the eight GEQs to the submix. However the GEQ seems to be after the send to the Main so this will be applied to the physical output of the submix but not the send to the main. You could of course sacrifice a channel and bring this output back into your mix through a physical input. This seems like an odd restriction, I'll do some digging. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you Sir. I think your last point is what I would have to go with. Another two queries are whether in the past two years if you've faced any issues with the software itself in a live context i.e crashes, glitches etc and whether the sd card 2track recording option can run simultaneously with the multitrack to usb with different levels?( To do away with using a tascam/zoom recorder )
Again thanks for your response, I'll stop bothering you now :)
Hi Amir - I haven't had any issues with crashing or locking up but I would always recommend an internet wide search, just in case! I have used the 2 track recorder but it in my view it is a strange interface and an unwieldy thing. I don't use it now I rely on a Zoom F6 and the USB. If you have a recent Mac you could also record over AVB. Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you Sir! Subscribed
Thanks Amir, just confirmed that GEQ is only applied to the physical output of the subgroup not the routing to the main output. Ta like, ppm6.
So, the GEQ only comes through on the main outputs and Auxs? You can't hear them in the headphone mix? Am I understanding that correctly?
Hi Dane, sorry for the delay but I've been away. Yes the headphone tap for both Main and Aux outputs is pre the GEQ. I downloaded the latest firmware to confirm this hasn't changed and indeed it has not.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk Such a bummer ... I had no clue about that. That's good to know !
Is the Solo In Place (through the mains) post GEQ ?
Hello can you please let me know how to send signal to the stage monitors?
Hi Teo - the Aux outputs are a good way to send your monitor feeds. You have six Aux outputs on the 16R.
ppm6.tv What i would like to know is how to make the stage monitors sound they do give me signal in the universal control but there is no sound
@@teoibarra4183 Hi Teo - hard to trouble shoot by text message. The meters in the UC app are pre fader. First plug a mic in - and set the level - do you see level on the meters? Open the fader - you should see the audio on the main output and hear it on the main outputs when you open the main fader. Make sure you have all GEQ and processing switched off. Click on Aux 1 button to see the Aux 1 mix. Check the mic level is there prefader, and then open mic fader and check you can see the level on the Aux 1 main. Fade up Aux 1 main. Go to settings - Gear Icon on top right. Find Phones Cue Source and set it to Mix 1. Plug your headphones into the front panel and turn the volume up you should be able to hear your Aux 1 mix. Next plug your headphones into the Aux 1 jack on the back of the mixer. You should hear your microphone.
does the 24 and 32 do multi track recording?
Hi Christian - Yes both the 24 and the 32 also do multi track recording - they both have 40 track USB recording and 55 track AVB recording to a computer. As well as the on board stereo SD card recorder.
It’s for recording o it’s same like normal mixer
Hi Teo - I think the 16R is first and foremost a live sound mixer. However the preamps are pretty good and you could use it in a simple studio set up with the mulitrack recording options of USB or AVB. What did you have in mind?
ppm6.tv I was a bit confused, but with you answer, you already solved my doubts 👍🏻
Is it easy to use in live events?
Hi Teo, the answer to that is not simple. You are mixing on an ipad or a laptop - I have used both together! In terms of control of faders you will never beat one physical fader per input - it is just the best way to do things. On the other hand thousands of engineers are now mixing on Presonus and similar App controlled hardware. First thing - find someone who has a Presonus or something similar and try it. Let us know how you get on.
For people intending to use it for live sound, i strongly advise against it, mostly because the remote control software (UC) has many shortcomings (especially compared to the Behringer/Midas XM32 consoles equivalent), and some are just way too serious for professional use :
- the PEQ section is way too small
- there is no offline editor
- not enough tap point options for sends to busses : for instance you can't have it post EQ but pre compressor/limiter, or you can't have it post gate but pre EQ/comp/limiter. This really sucks if you're using the console for both FOH and MON at the same time.
The Behringer/Midas XM32 is way better than this.
What's really missing is 24/96 output...
Hi Builder - true indeed, digital out would be great. I'd settle for 24/48. ADAT even. Ta.
Get mackie dl16s you get all effects
Thanks Amer - The new DLs mixers from Mackie certainly look very interesting - hope to get one to give them a spin. I can't see any reference to sample rates - would be good if they did 96KHz. You do get 4 FX processors which is a big boost. The 'What's MIssing' on a very quick scan of the specs is digital snake. The Presonus can be part of an AVB network - use remote stage boxes - be a stage box for another Presonus mixer - use Earmix hardware monitor mixers and record straight to your Mac over a single Cat5e. Good for us to have choices and options I say.