Check This Before You Buy A New Bowstring! - Dacron vs Fastflight | Archery
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2021
- Replacing a bowstring and not sure what to get? Be careful of this ONE thing that can destroy your bow. Many traditional bows are not made to be used with modern high-performance strings (including Fastflight, Dyneema, Spectra, etc.). As such, they can only use Dacron, a stretchier string material. The less stretchy, faster strings place more stress on the limb tips, which may cause them to break. Check whether your bow is Fastlight-compatible or whether it has reinforced or phenolic tips (see: www.3riversarchery.com/bow-bu....
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I've also heard that using too light of arrows can cause a lot of extra stress in older bows 🏹 similar to dry firing
My 60lb samick sage broke because I shot regular arrows (400 grains in total) with a fast string. Later I bought heavier tips (550 grains of total arrow weight) and this never happened again.
@@sovietrepublic38 yessiree, I mostly shoot vintage bob Lee bows, don't even remember where I came across the minimum arrow weight calculations, but it's all too easy to use too light arrows these days with all the super thin carbon etc
or too heavy of arrows like the wood dowels or the arrow that has been made too heavy, this is with the non all fiberglass bows.
@@sovietrepublic38 - need min of 8grains per lb of draw weight so 8x6-
0 is 480 grains you need. A 40 lb bow would only need 320 grain arrow
@@ultimatejay actually that depends on the materials used for the limbs. I run 450 grains on my new Hoyt Satori (80lb at 30" full draw) and still shoot fine after over thousands of shoots. But traditional materials cannot run such a low gpp.
The photo looks like my Ben Pearson Rogue after a local bow shop gave me a string to use in a pinch. I wasn't paying attention to it and about a month later the damage occurred and that is when I realized the string was fastflight....I always use Dacron on my bows.
Thanks for that, I've been shooting traditional and historic for years, and only recently got into recurve and it would never have occurred to me that the string requirements might have been different, thank you, if you learn something new everyday, the day has not been wasted
I remember when I found this guy looking for that vigilante jacket, subscribed ever since, glad to see he’s doing well!
Seeing that damage, I'm glad I did my research when buying a new string for my vintage recurve.
Interesting video. You'd be surprised the bows that do use fastflight, for instance my English longbow is made to use fastflight and after many years is still in perfect order.
Thanks for the heads up, I’ll check my strings later
i know its a drag but don't let the haters get you down .thank you for posting this . as always a great video and thank you.
Very helpful. Thank you.
At the chandlery I work at we sell Dyneema as a winch cable option and spectra as a rigging option and rock climbing rope, interesting to see them using such incredibly powerful fibres for fast flight bow strings.
Spectra and Dyneema are the same thing, just different companies call it their own trade name.
@@mrsock3380 To a certain degree, the stuff we sell has a double braid coating of the spectra so it is a bit different.
Thanks because share this info...
Very informative video. I have a couple of string related questions though. One of my traditional take down recurve bows (Fleetwood Monarch) is marked as AMO 62#. I have purchased several endless loop dacron strings of different brands marked AMO 62 inches for it but they all seem short in the sense that without even adding a twist the brace height ends up being higher than the recommended brace height. The closest I could get with an AMO 62" string with no twists was a brace height just over the max brace height of 8 1/2 inches. This does not allow for any adjusting tuning by twisting to get it into the proper range for recommended brace height of 7 1/2 - 8 1/2". It's almost as if the bow is actually AMO 63# or something. My questions are : 1) does slightly exceeding the brace height potentially damage or put undue stress on the bow ? I have about a 29 1/2 inch draw length 2) if I got an AMO 64" string for it instead is there an issue with how many twists I would have to do to get into the proper brace height range ?
Hey Nu, I recently decided to get back into archery and your channel is by far the most comprehensive on UA-cam for archery, kudos for good content.
Question, how is channel growth?
At nearly 200k subs I imagine you'd be near the top of the ladder for this particular niche.
Bonus question, do you think smart phones are stealing kids away from archery the same way they're being stolen from every other discipline? I teach guitar and kids who are really keen and attentive are few and far between nowadays.
Happen to a friend of mine. He use traditional bow( turkish bow with long limbs,forgot the name of the manufacturers) with thumbdraw, the old string he uses is Dacron, then he changes to Fastflight because it gives more speed for the arrow. After a few release, the bow exploded at the top limb. Please be aware of the strings that your bow uses. Consult with the bow manufacturers before change string
Friend of mine try using ff string 18 strand for his tradbow..after 3 times shoot..and siyah was broken without any warning..
I’ll tell you what, I’m a noob archer who hasn’t even set up my rig yet and I never buy anything w/o looking it up first, no point in throwing money at something you don’t know works. That’s like putting a certain caliber in a gun and saying what its a bullet, potatoe potahtoe. Hope he learned his lesson in general look it up first lol
I think another issue is string length not allowing a reasonable amount amount of twists as the straighter strands will absorb less shock. Also number of strands for your material will affect over all mass of the string affecting speed and shock absorption ability.
I have the same experience using fast flight bow string... it does brake my bow at the bow nock area... it have aggressive speed but sacrifice the structure integrity cause of stress ... i use traditional bow
I am very new to this sport, and have been taking lessons in my local archery club. The coaches there have told me that I have a good future (yey!) in this, if I am really into it. I am looking to buy my own equipment soon, but for now I am using borrowed equipment from the club. Long story short, I´m using a Cartel raiser with pretty cheap limbs, can´t remember the brand, 20 lbs. One of the coaches realized the limbs were crooked, so they got a new pair for me to use. Yesterday, I was given the new limbs and was told by coach A (let´s just call her that) to put the bow together and bring it to her to see if the string fit the new limbs. These limbs were longer and 26 lbs. I put the bow together and showed her, and she okay´ed it. No more than 3 mins later, I started noticing a bit of "peeling" on the upper limb, so I went back to her to show her, and just before she even turned around, the upper limb completely snapped in diagonal, hadn´t shot a single arrow yet. I was told I had to pay for the limbs, which I don´t mind, but was pretty upset because she had okay´ed it and then blamed it on me. Another one of the coaches came to my rescue (what a relief that was) and told her the bow had been put together correctly, and that this wasn´t my fault. I still payed for the limbs but it was pretty intense to have a limb just break while I was holding the bow. I don´t know what kind of string I use, as I am very new and still learning and figuring things out, but everyone at the club was amazed at what happened. I still payed for the limb, but at least they all agreed that it wasn´t my fault!
If the limb has snapped, it's likely a manufacturing fault.
Most Bear Archery brand bows can't use a fast flight string but can use the Dynaflight 97 or D--97 string with the bow at most, only a few models can use a fast flight and they will state below on the site what strings the bow can take if yours did not come with the instructions.
You made me a bit worried as I have the same bow (a Cartel Epic Hawk) and I'm using a Fast Flight Flemish Twist string... I looked it up and yes it's all good!!!😌
Cartel Epic Hawk is FF compatible; just don't use materials like 652 spectra or 8125 dyneema, both of which are suitable for ILF limbs that have been coated with various stronger materials. Cartel Hawk has no problem with D97 because it is also a modern fiber material, only it is a little more stretched than the high-performance 652 spectra or 8125 dyneema, and both of those materials have a faster stroke and more shock to the limbs. Limbs are likely to be delaminated due to the material. There is no problem as long as you use D97 dyneema on the Cartel Hawk bow.
Hey NUsensei, you forgot a reason to replace a string..... Wrong colour scheme! 😆
As pointed out in the video, you can usually tell by looking at the limb tips whether a bow will be able to handle a fastflight string and it is safe to use. If in doubt do not and always use dacron. Vintage bows made more than 30 years ago before fastfight strings were available should always be used with dacron.
thanks after the slap I got I was wondering what was going on. now I know
In theory just use heavier arrows and no problem to your bow. And get more effency for heavier arrows
hey nusensei, i was just curious at what length between the arms that hold the string to your jig center to center?
is there an easy way to add nocking plastic when it wears out on the string can u do a video on that
I have been shooting 700 grain wood arrows for 35 years bow is quiet and great penitration
Brownell string material, now exclusively made in South America ! I really want to see how it's made.
I have older Bear recurves ('57 - '78) so I stick with B-55 dacron.
wow, I didn't know this could happen from string material choice
I would be very sad if that happened to my equipment :'(
Before using a Fastflight string I check, if the original string is FF or ask the bowyer, if the bow is able to deal with FF.
If not, I won’t use FF.
Hi NUSensei, while this video is informative, my issue is also with strings and limbs. After 1 year the string doesn't sit well in the groove on the upper limb, looks like a twisted/warped limb even though I always use a stringer. Have you ever seen something similar?
Also if you will do another coaching video in the future I'd love to hear your thought on my video 50m barebow practice, cheers
My Bow has those Reinforced Limb Tips and some of the biggest to have hat they could take the fastest strings made for compound but I do not want to take that chance so I use the standard Fast Flight for traditional bows on that good bow with the full deeper reinforced tips they will work.
it can cause damage to the limbs due to the material that blend with vectran.
Hello
can I use Flemish Dacron Traditional strin on Samick Sage and what bowstring do you recommend for this bow?
i have had a limb to chip it came apart the limb just split on the front of the bow been using it for abouut 6 years i bought it from top archery it was a 58" takedown bow i realy miss the bow tried to get a new limb contacted the company but got no answer it had a red rised loved it got another one but it is not the same
Well, I have a “old” Yamaha take down recurve with Samick smt-9 limbs. Would it be ok to use a fastflight string?
I have a solid hickory wood longbow. That was handmade, it's longer than my buddies 68in longbow. A little confused as to what length I need. It is a 14 band I do know that much.
So the mandrin duck phantom can use fastflight ?
I have a tiger shark Pro from SWA that is supposed to be reinforced for fast flight strings, but it broke after I used it for 10 outings of shooting and probably being shot less than 250 times that split down on one side from the upper limb. It has the write string length and I used the arrows spine recommended by SWA, thankfully they sent me a new set of limbs of the now #55 but I am still nervous to use the fast fire. Any advice? Is this more than likely a QC problem or are they not as reinforced as they claim to be? Thanks
Thanks for the Information, i have somewhat the opposit Problem on my 60lbs Bowhunter Bow after a few shots the Dacron String is getting to long. The Standheight comes from 8" 1/4 down to 6".
How i Order a String that Can handle the stress?
More strands?
So how do you know if a bow can handle a fast-flight string? I've tried to find info for the SAS Jaguar to no avail. These are pure fiberglass limbs with a 175lb draw weight.
Bought a vintage Bear Grizzly off ebay with frayed Flemish string (moderate to severe), which measures 52 inches, actual length. Could I buy another Flemish off Amazon, simply by same measure, and re-string it?
I have lots of problems shooting targets that are lower (or higher) than about 5-6 feet, for example, a target that is 2 feet high. I know I should not drop my arm but I have no idea what to do. I came up with the idea of raising my right foot (back foot), standing on my foot sole rather than putting it firmly on the ground) while keeping my left foot (forward foot) on the ground. this way my body tilts a bit and I shoot lower targets better but at the cost of losing stability which is affecting my shooting. I appreciate any tips on how to aim for low or high targets. (I am 6'2" and I shoot a recurve bow with a simple recurve sight, I don't shoot instinctively). Thanks
Wait you cannot just tilt your body?
hello NUsensei, i have question:
i begin archery 1 month ago, i start with compound bow, so naturally i shoot with release
now i've read opinions on the internet that shooting compound bow with fingers is also possible, so i tried it - and so my accuracy vanished, i cant hit even close to target, even though i try to release finger from string extremely slowly. now my question: what do i do wrong, what do you have to keep in mind when releasing bowstring - or is it because compound bow is actually not compatible with fingers?
Why on earth did you just follow the advice of random people on the internet? Who in the right mind would shoot compound without a release?
@@RoyMcAvoy i didnt follow any advice, i just wanted to try it out, why are you being so bothered about it?
I've been looking at a Hoyt Riser and probably Velos limbs, what string would you recommend?
Bcy 652 spectra, bcy 8125 or dyna97..hmpe string material, low stretch, low creep and fast...what i know, hoyt dont recommend any compound bow string materials to their recurve limbs..
How would you rate the bow you have in your hand for this video? It looks like the exact bow I have (62"-60).. also could you use a slightly longer string to loosen the pull a tad? Thank you for all the content..🙏🏼
No, the draw weight is based on the limbs. Using a longer string will not reduce the weight. You're still pulling the same weight.
@@NUSensei understood, so I would need (lighter) recurve ends… sorry, I’m not savvy on proper bow etiquette yet. But with your videos help, I will be.. thank you again for the speedy reply. Positive vibes to you and yours..🙏🏽
@@demarriotryail2627 Maybe you could lower draw weight by making a longer, looser string yourself. The shorter the string the more tension, the more power you need to cock it.
If that's what you meant.
Im now getting my 2nd bow its a junxing recurve
I cant find traditional warbows in my country
In the Philippine/palawan
I recently purchased a pse nighthawk from a local shop, and cant find anything about string compatibility on it anywhere online. It does appear to have reinforced tips, but they are made of wood. You think I can get away with fastflight?
I believe the Nighthawk can use FF strings.
@@NUSensei thanks brother!
That's good to know. I always thought compounds use different strings from traditional bows, but I never looked into it since I only buy the same string from the same store that sold me my bow.
can i still use Dacron on modern Recurves ?
Yes
Another reason why the Samick is the swiss army knife of bows, you can use fastflight strings due to their tips.
This is not unique to Samick bows though. Many "trad" bows made today have phenolic tips and come with FF strings.
Do you have to twist the string before you put it on?
It isn't necessary, but maintaining the right number of twists is essential in keeping the right brace height.
@@NUSensei You are saying I only need to twist the string in order to keep brace height!! GOT IT.
You have been a huge help through my archery journey, I'm new and am learning a lot from you, so thanks so much 😀
A cheap as chips Amazon 40 lb recurve bow. Comes with no specs. A dacron for sure and forever you think?
how is it that the string controls speed based on its material makes now since when its the limbs that control weight pull and then you have arrow weights and draw lengths control speed along with last time i checked the length of the string is what's most important to get right not so mich what its made out of.. so explain this voodoo in a way that any of us can understand why your saying what you are you need to be more specific and not just say this or that but we need the real details here ..
The linked videos in my Bowstring tutorials go into more detail, but I thought I was clear in this video at 2:55. The key is how much string materials stretch.
What you're seeing is Newton's 2nd law (F = ma). Assuming that mass is a constant (same bow limbs, same string mass), the key difference is acceleration. A stretchier string material (like Dacron) will have lower acceleration compared to a "faster" string material like Dyneema, which has less stretch. Those extra milliseconds of acceleration, multiplied with the mass of the limbs + arrow make a notable difference in velocity.
You can feel a similar effect by holding a stretching band. Pull back a "stretchier" band (either a light one, or a normal one held with more slack), and you feel some pressure in your gripping hand near your thumb. Use a heavier, less stretchy band and draw to the same length, and there is far more pressure. The mass of the band and your body hasn't changed, but the elasticity of the material has.
When you let go, the light band will experience less acceleration and it will comfortably be absorbed as the hand moves forward.
With the heavier band, it will snap in front of your hand almost immediately and before your hand has time to move. You will feel more strain in your gripping hand on release.
The interaction between the stretching band and your hand is similar to the interaction between the limb tip and the string. The faster material, being less stretchy, is less forgiving, causing more stress on the lighter limb tips. If the limb tips are not reinforced, this will cause the tip to shear, which typically happens on release.
I make my own Flemish strings
I will not use fast flight on any of them, too noisy I'm not worried about a couple feet a second
Well, poops. Decathlon opened in my country recently and on my "discovery tour" I've decided to buy a string to keep a spare one at home. Now checking and it's Geologic Fast Flight(( The bow in question is a modern longbow (Buck Trail Black Hawk). Can I still use it sometimes?
Suggest me some cheap bow
ok how did i reply
2nd?
Ok
Reading the descriptions of different string materials and which types of bows they are recommended for, it appears that the vectran/dyneema blends are meant for compound bows. I'd stay away from those types for any longbow or recurve bow.
that looks like a Bearpaw Whisper string ...
Did you feel the earthquake in the morning at 9:15 my house was shaking like no other
AUS? what region?
seems very convenient while the anti passport protests are going on they have the technology to do its nothing new
@@SirPraiseSun No, there was very definitely an earthquake. I felt it 250km away from Melbourne.
100
Also, make sure the string loops are the correct size for your bow.
buy a g60 fast string 3" shorter than your bow length
You're in Victoria? My heart goes out to you. Have been watching the hours of police brutality against peaceful protesters down there. Hope you are safe.
I recommend you to make short videos less than 1:30 min it will be much better