I feel like Thrawn would use an Executor as bait rather than as a flagship. The NR knew how terrifying an SSD can be, and they were quick to organize a task force to kill any that were discovered. I can see Thrawn leaking the location to the New Republic, attracting a large NR kill fleet to it, then Thrawn Pincering them into oblivion.
He wouldn't even have to kill the force that the new republic commits to it. You put on one good show of force with it to get the new republic afraid of it, but then you leave it with a crew small enough for it to fly and sort of parade it around the galaxy. The new republic will very much want to destroy this ship... but to do that would take a large investment of resources, and they'd have to get there *quickly* or the SSD could disappear into space before your forces arrive. A fleet that can kill a SSD is a significant investment of resources... but if you're going to draw a net around it that'll take *multiple* fleets that can kill a SSD. So you take advantage of all the systems that had to be left less defended building this task force... and if they stop respecting your super star destroyer, then you can just wheel it out again and make them remember why they invested all they did into stopping it.
This is probably the most "Thrawn-like" approach to having an SSD. Thrawn was ruthlessly anti-sentimental in his use of his assets, but understood the sentiment of his enemies. If he posessed an SSD, he wouln't necessarily see it as a powerful tool (his doctrine considered dreadnaught-class ships to be largely wasteful and ineffective), but as a powerful symbol to his enemies that he could exploit. Having one "on loan" from another warlord wouldn't be as valuable to him as one he could mess around with. If he had time and resources, I could see him secretly bolstering his own fleet with fighters and weapons stripped from the SSD, throwing a couple grav-well generators in it, giving it a skeleton crew and making what ammounts to an oversized, fleet killing fire-ship out of it. The New Republic shows up with a powerful fleet to counter Thrawn's SSD, and he traps them there and lets the SSD go nuclear in their midst, wrecking a sizable portion of the New Republic's forces. Meanwhile, Thrawn is casually sauntering in with thousands of heavy weapons and hundreds of fighters strapped to his existing fleet of ISDs and Katana ships to clean up the stragglers.
By 5 ABY the New Republic was aware on how to fight against star dreadnoughts. They weren't existential threats. The Black Fleet uh like 12 years after Endor was primarily a political threat in that the New Republic would have to federalize some sector fleets
This is the joy of Thrawn. Throw him any pieces on the board you want, he'll make a strategy out of it. In the first of the new canon Thrawn books, he tells Vanto that ISD-sized vessels coupled with smaller support ships and fighters offer the most versatility of use for the most situations, and implies that many people make the mistake of thinking that bigger equals better. That's not to say that Thrawn would not have approved of SSD in principle. If you consider the ISD to be a hammer, then the SSD would be a sledge hammer. Not nearly as useful as a regular hammer, as it can't be used nearly so often, but when it can be used you'll be glad you have the sledgehammer to hand instead of having to use the handheld. And the threat of a bigger hammer tends to have more impact (cough) than a smaller one. If Thrawn had one, he'd find a way to use it. That's just how he is.
Agreed. Not his preferred tool of choice for a variety of reasons. However he is a pragmatist and if it is a tool at his disposal he will find a way to use it.
He could have penetrated the shields during the siege of Coruscant, not just cutting the planet off as in the books but directly striking targets on the ground. The cloaked astroids he left behind were a large problem on their own, but if he did that while also using the SSD to punch thru the shields to strike major goverment buildings he could have inflicted even more chaos.
Exactly. A lot of people say Thrawn wouldn’t bother using it as he values mobility. However, if something like an SSD is thrown on to his lap, he’s not the type to waste it even if it’s against his doctrine. -He could strip it of its weapons, majority of the crew, and squadrons which can be used to modify other ISDs to be stronger. The SSD meanwhile will be playing chicken. Run around and force the NR to chase it while he attacks elsewhere. -He can convert it to a dedicated super carrier. Take out some weaponry, take away its ability to carry heavy ground forces, and maybe add some few hangers. Boom, you have an SSD with 2 fleet’s worth of starfighter squadrons. -Use it as a troop carrier. This is inspired by the Battle of Boz Pity. He can load the shit of the SSD with troops and armored vehicles. Use Interdictors to pull the SSD into Coruscant’s orbit before they can raise the planetary shields. Meanwhile, the rest of the fleet jumps in to engage the defense fleet. Like Boz Pity, the SSD crash lands in Coruscant, ideally landing near the Senate and the Jedi Temple, and the troops carry out orders. Assault the Jedi Temple, the Senate, and military HQ. Hold hostages, especially Mon Mothma, and NR officers, while another group works its way to disable the planetary shields. Btw, the SSD crash landed, but its guns can still work. Use it to fight off starfighters and provide fire support. The hostages are merely the bait and to slow down NR troops. Main objective was always the planetary shield generator.
@@danielboatright8887 No, if the Hoth shield could keep out Death Squadron including the Executor, the Coruscant shield certainly could. Lusankya only escaped because they LET her go, rather than risk Isard turning her guns on the planet itself. It took an entire day of several ISDs, SSDs, and possibly torpedo spheres to bring down Coruscant's shields in Shadow Hand according to the short story Evacuation from Coruscant,
To continue the hammer analogy: imagine you're tapping a blindfolded person lightly with a hammer (representing your normal raid by an ISD and a few support ships). Then suddenly, you nail him with a sledgehammer (a raid by an SSD), giving no prior warning whatsoever. Even if you never use the sledgehammer again, that person is going to remain forever scared of being whacked with it, and forever tense and braced for that blow. Translating that to wartime, that means your opponent will start trying to entrench themselves and concentrating their forces to avoid being picked-off, which not only makes them more predictable, but opens holes in their defense you can exploit. This is exactly how the Germans used the battleship Tirpitz in WWII. When convoy PQ17 heard she was en route to blow them to pieces, they scattered, and were subsequently picked off and massacred by submarines and aircraft, even though Tirpitz never fired a shot and actually didn't even leave port.
It could have also been used as something called a "fleet in being". It was a strategy used by the Germans in WW2. Basically, the British had to devote an entire fleet to being ready to take on the Tirpitz should she leave port. The SSD could basically paralyze New Republic fleet movements because they had to be ready to counter that ship, and they would never know if their next engagement might have them facing it.
@@noahcheckman8542 yes, but how many different operations did they undertake to do it? There were multiple air raids, a minisub raid, etc. To be honest, the tirpitz was a resource sink for both sides: the British either wanted to destroy it or at least keep it from leaving port through multiple operations, while the Germans had to man her and keep repairing her. For the Germans, it's hard to say if the effort was actually worth it. It might have been more effective if the Germans had been able to conceal her location.
it would be similar to modern times with the USA's fleet of aircraft carriers. In a wartime scenario Aircraft carriers will be prime targets because taking down a few of them will be a morale boost for the opposing side and a morale depressant for the owner. especially seeing that China and Russia focus on building missiles instead of huge surface ships. It is much more cost effective to spend the same money on a few hundred missiles rather than a huge war ship. If even three of the missiles take out the warship it is a huge economic blow to the enemy.
Being keenly aware of the vulnerabilities of a Star Dreadnought, I think Thrawn would ultimately find three uses for one: - Bait. The Rebellion never passed up a chance to catch and kill a Star Dreadnought if they could. Many died at the hands of relatively small Rebel forces - crippled by earlier fighting, over-confidence of their commanders, or lack of a proper support force. Thrawn, seeing this, could leak evidence of a vulnerable or isolated Star Dreadnought - in fact, laying a bloody trap for a Republic fleet taking advantage of a target they could not ignore. - Overlapping with the first, there's Diversion / Deterrence: Unguarded, a Star Dreadnought can seize even well-defended systems on its own. Thrawn, knowing this, could use one to tie up a fair fraction of the Rebel fleet warding against any aggressive maneuvers by it. Thus forcing his foes to tie down a portion of their forces, Thrawn could earn much more 'breathing room' for his main force. - The killing hammer-blow. If I've made Star Dreadnoughts sound weak or useless in actual battle, that's a mistake. As Thrawn himself showed at Candoras, and both Rebellion and Empire would later show at Borleas, Adumar, and Celanon, a properly-supported Dreadnought can be the force that makes or breaks a battle. I have no doubt that when Thrawn felt it was time to bring a killing blow on his foes, he would bring his Dreadnought to bear as well.
Honestly, I see two possibilities. The first is the one you mentioned, using it as bait to pull the Rebels into a trap. The second is the opposite: SSD guerilla warfare. Keep it constantly on the move, attacking sometimes on its own, sometimes with the fleet, and sometimes just nowhere, so the Rebels will never be sure where it's at or when Thrawn is going to hit a target with overwhelming force.
I think this Mr. House quote could very well sum up how Thrawn would use the Reaper (Or other SSD) "I haven't shown my hand - I've shown one card. I've given my enemies a single, provocative datum upon which to fixate. They have no idea what other cards I'm holding. It's a strong hand, believe me - I dealt it to myself."
He'd likely use it to bully the less forthcoming imperial worlds into paying their dues and as a giant distraction piece for the New Republic. Much like Thrawn himself was not just a threat because of how smart he was, but because of how smart everyone THOUGHT he was. The SSD would be a threat not just because it is powerful but because it's something they can't afford to ignore and would need to tie up taskforces chasing.
The New Republic had a lot of resources hunting the Iron Fist. Thrawn loved drawing out fleets from their bases so he could hit the base, drawing ships on a hunt for a single ship would leave a massive gap for him to exploite. Even if he faked the ship sightings it would still cause the New Republic to hunt for something that doesn't exist.
@@DIEGhostfish we know from the hunt for the Iron Fist that the New Republic had none to hand really to spend on a hunt. In fact any Interdictor that the New Republic had would be a threat to Trawn and his hit and run attacks, that alone would be worth drawing it out to destroy it.
@@lukesearle1302 NR did have more resources after the Zsinj campaign, though how many interdictors they could throw out was plot dependant. New Class Modernization added a ton of tiny interdiction pickets, but really they probably didn't start turning out their own CC7700s till after they took Corellia, which was after Dark Empire by several years. Maybe Kuat turned out some interdiction after it fell shortly before Thrawn. (Honestly that story blurb from EGtW is pretty BS.)
That really is the question, why the hell did he never get an SSD? (Edit: Before the fall of the Empire I mean, Palpatine saw his tactical brilliance, and if anyone merited the command of an SSD, it was Thrawn)
Thrawn with a SSD would be a potential threat to Palpatine himself, or at least I'd guess that would be Palpatine's logic in denying his strongest super weapons to his most competent admiral at the time.
I feel like an SSD is against Thrawn’s “cannon” military doctrine. He likes to use more ships and squadrons then just a very large one. But who knows I didn’t do much reading of the Legends books.
True he would never commission one to be built but if one was salvaged or otherwise found then just scraping her is a poor choice in a era where next to no one has the resources to just make a entire navy from the ground up. from converted mon cal passenger liners to clone wars era victorys nearly everyone was useing what they had on hand rather than what they would like to make. Hell this is what he did with the katana fleet dreadnought cruisers. are they new, or flashy or fast... not realey but he had them on hand so may as well use them.
@@kurtuhlig2553 I didn't quite realize there was a name for how I sorta figured he'd use it. Though I wouldn't figure on leaving it truly in port, but roving around as a threat they can't afford to fully ignore.
#AskEcks : What if at the Battle of Atollon, when Konstatine disobeyed his orders and moved his Interdictor out of position, a bridge officer had removed him of his command _(perhaps with prejudice),_ and kept the Interdictor in formation. ?
Then New hope would never happend Literally thrawn lived Tie defenders survived (since pryce attack didnt happend) General Dodanna would have been captured The portal of world between worlds would been activated could have gave great power to Sidious
One thing I have often thought of for this is that, given Thrawn's strategy, an SSD could be used as a "fleet in being." The very presence of an SSD could be used to tie down enemy forces or lure them to certain areas and away from others. This has been employed in real life naval warfare many times, using for example a Battleship that lacks adequate escorts to be deployed, as a lure for enemy forces. This would provide more breathing room for Thrawn's more flexible task forces. In this way, even an under crewed SSD could be more effective out of the fight than in it.
Look at Tirpitz. Her career didn't involve much but we kept 1 Iowa in the area to challenge her and the resources the Brits used to sink her is astounding
I remember in the "Courtship of Princess Leia" novel, the main Imperial villain was Warlord Zsinj who was in possession of an SSD called "Iron Fist", although it was destroyed during the events leading into the novel. During the novel Princess Leia says to Han Solo that it takes so much energy to run a Super Star Destroyer that only a handful could be used at any one time.
I could see Thrawn using it as a diversion or even as bait. Keep the New Republic chasing it while his regular strike fleets have more breathing room and a wider range of targets. If the NR didn't take the bait Trawn could punish them by striking a sensitive target with the SSD.
I disagree with your assessment that an Executor class wouldn't be viable for hit and run tactics as that's exactly what Warlord Zsinj used his Executor class, Iron Fist for very successfully. It's a powerful fleet in and of itself that could operate on its own freeing up more vessels for other duties. Thrawn wasn't opposed to SSDs at all, he simply was denied access to them in his campaign.
He would have been opposed to the supplies and amount of personnel before having the clones. At first anyway. Zsinj and Isard both complained about the limitations of being tied to an SSD. Hyperfuel alone would be somewhat bankrupting to Thrawn's supply abilities. Probably would keep it hidden until he had a supply base for it. Mods it with the interdicter tech when he could deploy it against NR fleets harassing his important systems?
In my opinion, on a tactical level its impractical choice being too large a sensor blob and far too slow in sublight. BUT On a strategic level its great with Six years of onboard supply's she can work always from base for as long as she likes and a class 2 hyper-drive means redeploying once a fleet large enough to kill you starts moving in to the sector is a valid option. this excluded the Night-hammer who is good tactically as well.
@@dragonsword7370 Some corrections here. Fuel is treated vastly differently in Legends and DisCan, with fuel being far less of a concern for larger ships that run on reactors compared to starfighters and ground vehicles. Zsinj never complained about Iron Fist, it was specifically central to his strategic operation as a mobile capital, command ship, force projector and symbol, he actively tried to acquire a second Executor from Kuat-the Razors Kiss to supplement Iron Fist. Isard also employed both Lusankya and an unnamed SSD of unknown class(the latter used to pick up General Derricote from Borleias) and she expressed love for Lusankya in Isard's Revenge, she's never quoted as being concerned with the logistics of maintaining the Super Star Destroyer, but that's mainly because Isard was not a military commander, nor did she have a grasp of those matters. A single SSD is a massive military asset and threat. If used aggressively and creatively as Zsinj and Pellaeon on the Imperial side did and as Wedge and Ackbar did on the New Republic side they can decide battles and campaigns. You also forget that each super star destroyer held upwards of two years of consumables, garrisons, spare parts and prefab bases, they were for all intents and purposes, and entire fleet and army within a single vessel.
@@kybercat7 Tactically an SSD is still extremely viable, contrary to popular thought, they weren't slow at sublight speed, the Iron Fist was matching speed with Mon Remonda during the Hunt for Zsinj, and outpaced Imperial Star Destroyers at Kuat during Zsinj's raid there, Lusankya managed to blast its way out of Coruscant and leave the system before the home fleet could catch it, and Executor was able to nearly cut off the Millennium Falcon at Bespin. The Essential Guide to Warfare states that Kaine keeping the Reaper denied Thrawn a powerful flagship, specifically implying Thrawn wanted it as his flagship until it was refused him. There's many reasons why the Reaper would have been superior to the Chimaera as a flagship for the Grand Admiral, firstly Executors were constructed as command vessels for entire fleets, they had the best personnel, equipment and escorts that could be provided, secondly the Reaper alone had more firepower than Thrawn's fleet at the start of his operations, it could have made the difference at Sluis Van or Bilbringi easily while also freeing up Thrawn's other Imperial Star Destroyers for other hit and hype raids. Even the massive sensor blip is useful as it forces the New Republic to focus on the Super Star Destroyer and keep enough forces to counter it which effectively weakens them elsewhere for the rest of Thrawn's fleet.
It also hides all its guns under one very powerful shield, meaning you have to focus even more firepower on it to inflict any attrition before it jumps back out. An ISD fleet can be taken out piecemeal with focusfire.
As others have said, Thrawn criticized SSD designs for having a comparatively limited role to an escorted ISD fleet that could be made under the same resources. He did not think them weak in terms of actual application and design of the ship. A well-placed Executor-class with support is uncontested in sheer firepower, an Executor is a fleet in and of itself that can, even alone, enact full scale raids, cripple planets, and so long as an interdiction field is not established escape unscathed due to its enormous power generation and shields. The SSD is a lot better at raids than you suggest, much as others have mentioned with Zsinj. The biggest problem with an SSD without the Empire to support it is maintenance and supply, something difficult to continually supply but in the short term if he can fill the crews up he can likely gain access to those supplies through the raids and future conquest. An SSD would allow Thrawn to always have an enormous strike option if he keeps it in hyperspace range, able to drastically increase destruction at almost any time during a battle or to even put into operation another raiding fleet targeting other systems in high profile raids. Imagine the fear that would come seeing a high profile attack of an SSD, and knowing that SSD is out there somewhere. The SSD would have also allowed Thrawn to have the fleet strength to switch off of the stateless strategy towards conventional warfare much earlier through this enormous increase in force projection, power, command capabilities, and others, its important to remember an Executor is not just a sledgehammer, it is even more than an ISD a full command station and can launch invasions, support, supply, and command thousands of TIEs acting as a complete and full starfighter base, the SSD has an enormous presence over the battlefield at any time. The SSD would also lead the New Republic by the nose, public fear of it would skyrocket and so it would be captivated and controlled by the SSD, allowing Thrawn to plan around the intense need from the New Republic to hunt it down.
Years ago, my group at a game shop ran an RPG where we had five stander ISD work as engines for a mobile ship dockyard that had the appearance of being a SSD. It would raid other ship yards for supplies firing off scores of dozens of ion cannon fire EMP the location and just flying off with everything it could. After a few games that mobile shipyard was mothball as a background campaign setting piece cause it was just to unbalancing to the game. It showed up, the fight was over. Another important thing to mention, my shop was full of a bunch of word math nerds that bend any rule we came across and power wargame everything we get our hands on. We would use flak/ over size fragmentation grenades to wear out starfighters in mass area attacks yet still be of low enough yields not to get pass capitol ship shields DR. Along with using capitol ship quad ion cannons to EMP any other capitol ship that came within firing range. Most of our Rebel heavy mid size space transports mine asteroid ore into high density iron rods for hyper speed kinetic impact missiles. So we played a very dirty game of dropping out of hyperspace and snipping ISD.
I feel that a Bellator Class SSD would suit Thrawn better. Still has the heavy firepower but with the speed and flexibility that Thrawn could exploit better in his tactics.
Thrawn gaining a SSD would have needed a vast enlargement of his officer corp. Ship officers to command and crew it. Clones just would make up the crews. Even if Thrawn died a Officer in command of a SSD in Thrawns fleet might have held his forces together much longer than they did.
If Pellaeon were in charge of an SSD when Thrawn died, he likely wouldn't have retreated. Then again, the entire campaign likely would have gone much different
@@samueldimmock694 Or even if he did retreat, it would have given him a stronger position in regard to the other Imperial warlords rather than having to wait for Daala to bring Imperial forced back under a single command.
I feel like thrawn would you use the reaper to essentially use the ship to "jab" into the underbelly of the new republic. While his task force could do a blitzkrieg strike. when needed could recall the reaper in times to do a major push of a conventional strike, like how you said about the battle of bellbringi* I think thrawn could have cause more damage to the new republic,thus allowing the warlords to make a more significant gain before the end of the war.
I would love to See your Idea to leave the reaper without Crew some where hidden in the Mando Verse. A secret Thrawns that the Rangers of the New Republic can find out about in their series
I feel like the mere fact of having an SSD is a boon. It is such a symbol of power and destruction it immediately draws attention, and that's how I think Thrawn would use it. Immediately shift the enemies attention and cause them to act rashly since there is a hulking dreadnought floating Infront of him. Additionally we can't forget that an SSD is as much of a politician tool as a military one.
Alright. As crazy as it might sound, my team (Me and two or three others) actually did more or less what you said about the revised Battle of Bilbringi in our upcoming fan novel trilogy. We are trying to use pre-existing material from Legends as much as possible in order to make callbacks the hardcore fans will recognize and respect. Our story is written to fit in the Disney canon as much as possible (Even though the overall continuity of the Canon itself is busted). We would very much hope to get your opinion on weather fanfiction (especially HEAVILY researched plots) are worth the time it takes to write them. We do not wish to be annoying in any sort of way. We simply wish for an authority on both SW timelines to take a look at the overall plot and determine weather it is worth writing. Tangents aside though, I do agree with your assessment of Thrawn's predicted use of an SSD. More of a shock and psychological tool than anything else.
I can also see Thrawn being one of the few strategists that would be willing to sacrifice a SSD. Trick the New Republic into overextending themselves to address a major new threat and then blow it up along with a sizable chunk of the enemy armada and fighters.
Thrawn did not like SSDs as a concept, they are extremely inefficient resource wise. However, most of that inefficiency lies in their building, not specifically their use. When you can build 5 Impstar Dueces for 1 SSD, it's better to have all 5 that you can split up for 5 small attacks than 1 big one. As pointed out, by Eck and even the Thrawn Trilogy itself, eventually he NEEDS to have big attacks. Sluis Van, Bilbringi, Ukio. A SSD would be perfect for all 3, especially if he kept all of his starting assets and received it. I don't think he would make it his flagship, but I do think he would make it a central feature. Thrawn had no issues showing up himself for key battles, but as seen in the Katana Fleet recovery, he had no problem delegating crucial operations to his captains. A loyalist captain, maybe even one from the Empire of the Hand, would likely be brought in as a full admiral for the ship. The captain would maintain control to not feel slighted or politically oppose him, and he would be able to entrust key missions to the admiral more than the captain. And an SSD certainly ranked an admiral. Why would an SSD be so useful to him, especially at those big battles? Thrawn LOVED to drain a sector of its resources through feints. Eventually, the New Republic would and DID catch on to it. But an SSD is an insurmountable threat, that any NORMAL imperial would obviously be using as their flagship and main thrust. New Republic Intelligence would be tracking it with everything they could muster, and it would ALWAYS be assumed to have Thrawn aboard, especially with his handpicked admiral to call the shots on it and always meet expectations. It would be a free decoy for him, while being effective enough to BE the main thrust when needed. With an SSD he could rely not only on his own presence to win a strategic battle, but a competent sledge hammer as well when that would work. He could suddenly double his own "masterstrokes" by not having to just rely on himself. Thrawn was always shown as a "one man navy" so to speak. His own presence was enough to guarantee victory, because if it wasn't he would simply retreat. An SSD under a protégé Admiral, would likely continue that trend of retreat if needed. Combined with his own strategic planning and competent use of his new Sledgehammer, he would ALSO have a powerful propaganda weapon as the New Republic would assume he was on the SSD, and see some "NEW omnipotent miracle worker on the ISD Chimeara" as well. They would start seeing "Thrawns genius spreading" and soon every smart independent move by one of the OTHER captains would start a myth of a proganda "deep genius bench" where even if Thrawn was "killed" by targeting the SSD there's 2, now 4, now 10 captains to replace him. And Thrawn THRIVES on propaganda and narrative control like that, and would happily play into it. The key to that strategy is 2 fold, the ISD having a competent Admiral, which "worst case" could easily be Gilad Pellaeon, and Thrawn remaining on the Chimeara for the most part to let the effects start speaking for themselves. The difference between Thrawn holding a sledgehammer and a trusted Admiral holding it aren't going to be obvious, especially considering that Thrawn would still be the strategic mastermind. Someone like Pellaeon weilding it would look almost identical since SSD tactics are fairly universal, it's their strategic approach that differentiates their effectiveness, which is why Lusankya did nothing of note combat wise until under the New Republic. Sure Thrawn preferred a Scalpal, but he used the Sledgehammer too when called for such as the second Myrkr raid to crush Karrdes old base, to see who scrambled after. In conclusion, Thrawn would likely use an SSD in a similar way. A strategic Sledgehammer to replace his tactical genius prowess with an effective second strategic fleet. He would likely also benefit from the confusion and focus on it, and would minimize his strategic risks by splitting his strategically effective fleets into "two baskets" so to speak. He would finally, also have the perfect opportunity to run a propaganda campaign to even more efficiently demoralize and stoke the inevitable dread of "Thrawn controls everything we're doing" he was so masterfully using during his campaign as being able to start more rumors of his "protégés" taking over as well
Forget a SSD, I’d love to see what Thrawn could do with a fleet of Legacy Era ships like the Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer, it’s larger variant the Imperious-class Star Destroyer, and the Ardent-class Fast Frigate, along with the TIE Predator starfighter. Although even if he had to make do with Galactic Civil War Era starfighters, as long as his ship of the line was the Pellaeon, I think he’d be able to dominate. Give him TIE Interceptors as his standard fighter, TIE Avengers as his elite fighter, and TIE Defender or Missile Boat as his elite fighter-bomber. With all of that plus at least a dozen Pellaeon Star Destroyers (in addition to other supporting ships), he could do great things.
only if Palpy let him ... If Thrawn had been in charge of the defense the rebels would have been hit before they could figure out that the DS2s shield was still up ... and by a larger force that would potentially have hit them from much closer (like be a single system or less away and hyperspace in behind the rebels and hit them while they try to abort the approach) ... but all of this contradicts Palpy's desire to blast them to dust with the DS2
Thrawn wouldn’t hide an SSD in an asteroid field, he’d slap the Empire’s cloaking technology on it. It would take him four months to grow enough clones to fully staff said ship which wouldn’t be worth doing as that’s a major commitment away from crewing other ships in the fleet; bolstering the army etc. I’d suspect any SSD would be used with interdictors to force NR ships to surrender rather than be destroyed.
Scrapping it all at once creates downtime. Also if the enemy doesn't have an interdictor a Super is actually amazing for hit and runs because of how long it takes to drop the shields, letting them tilt the ratio more towards hitting.
@@davidkeen4972 It only needs to be able to turn its nose enough to jump away, Realspace speed isn't important especially if he can deploy it via Thrawn Pincer.
A game mod called Thrawn's revenge answered this nicely. His faction put a cloak on it, using the ship to hurt enemy morale. A little less powerful then opposing supercaps but imagine never knowing if a SSD might suddenly appear off your formation to broadside you. Any opposing commander would have to factor it in and plan conservative, not to mention less heavily shielded targets such as shipyards screaming for enough garrison in case it was to suddenly appear. Unleashing several salvos before disappearing just as suddenly.
You are missing a level of strategy that ssd would offer. He would keep it at the rear of the engagements early in his campaign with a skeleton crew when he was conquering star systems without a single shot fired. In this roll the fear level would make a huge difference more than the use of firepower. Later on a fully shielded ssd would still be able to take a massive beating, leaving his smaller ships unhindered to focus engagements. As he grew in imperial support and it became manned the ship would then be used to It's full potential. You have to think like a Grand Admiral and understand how to deploy those resources before you see the complexity of beneficial uses that doesn't necessarily equal offensive.
In the new thrawn trilogy he specifically says "Star destroyer-sized capital ships and large numbers of supporting starfighters are the most efficient and flexible naval array for both deterrent and combat." Not to say he wouldn't have a good use for them, but I think it's pretty clear he would prefer a couple more ISDs and a handful of light cruisers over a SSD.
The thought that comes to my mind would be either; 1,use the use the SSD to do symbolic attacks while his main fleet carries out strategic important attacks. Like while he is building up the numbers of his fleet, have the SSD launch raids or a campaign on places like Dantooine, Yavin 4, etc... small in the big picture, but as long as there is technically a presence and a symbolic Rebel connection, an SSD causing destruction would be a nice distraction. or 2, use it as a buffer in battle. At the battle of Coruscant, Thrawn could use the SSD to soak up New Republic attacks while his primary force focuses on maximizing the impact of his attack.
I think Yavin 4 had no real NR presence till Luke set up shop there in the JAT after Dark Empire which was after Thrawn. And Dantooine was little more than a temporary base. But the idea of the Reaper as just something they have to chase would have suited him
Hi Eck, I have been thinking and I would say what Thrawn would want the most is better communications! He used a dark 'insane' Jedi as a communication system to allow better coordination for attacks. If he could achieve that near instantaneous communication and coordination between fleets that I believe would be better for him than a hundred SSD's.
A hundred fully-manned and supplied SSDs would probably make the New Republic surrender without a fight, allowing him to save his resources for the Yuuzhan Vong War--assuming he managed the political side of victory well enough and didn't just cause a second rebellion. Keeping with that assumption, he could then recruit Luke, a light and non-insane Jedi, to do that communication/coordination. That said, once he had won, the Jedi would be far more valuable to him than the ships that had paved the way to recruiting them.
I have to assume the lack of an SSD was a limitation put upon Zahn when he was writing the books. After all, at the time, I'm pretty sure the Executor was the only SSD that was known when he wrote the books. Back then, we had no reason to believe there were ever more than the one. So, a more interesting question would be - what kind of Thrawn would Timothy Zahn have written if the character had been in command of an SSD from the beginning?
3:08 Ehh an SSD can be pretty good for hit and run if the enemy has no interdictor. It's all those guns under a shield that can last longer under sustained fire than an ISD, and thus "Hit" for a few minutes longer in any Hit-and-Run.
A single strafing run from an Executor class would be pretty brutal on most targets, not sure how long the turnover is from dropping out of hyperspace until you can jump back into it.
Even interdictors would not be that big of a problem to a SSD. It would have more than enough fire power to turn them into space dust and enough range to hit them from anywhere if they were close enough to keep it from being able to jump.
His need for clones to crew it would largely depend on where he gets it from. The Reaper from the Pentastar Alignment should come with a full complement, but other sources might have less/no crew, such as Dominion and Megador under Harrsk in the Deep Core and others would have to be repaired, such as Drommel's Guardian.
Guardian could have made very good bait, successfully towing it to a real repair yard, or moving enough modular deepdock stations to repair it in place at an actually useful speed would be very very risky, for not much reward since that's a ton of tow ships, or worse, drydocks not constructing other ships. And there's just a ton of risk of interception since the galaxy was closer to 50-50 in power at the time. The NR didn't really even start rebuilding Lusankya till after Thrawn.
On the one hand, even more wasteful than an executor, and burning a world to ash is almost always counterproductive. But on the other an Eclipse CAN do what he needed a complex bluff with a force user and a cloaking device to pull off. Pierce planetary shields.
The opening scene of this video is from “Star Wars Tie Fighter Deluxe Edition CD ROM”, the greatest Star Wars flight sim/battle campaign game of all time. I really wish Lucas Arts would revive it for PS4.
Here's a Thrawn-esque tactic that could be used if the Grand Admiral employed a Super Star Destroyer. So Thrawn had cloaking devices right, he used them over Coruscant with the Asteroids. What if he retrofitted this theoretical Executor with said Cloaking Shields (As seen with the prototype Executor depicted in Star Wars Rebel Strike) and utilize it akin to his Strategy above Ukio where he snuck a cloaked Dreadnought through the Shield and gave the impression that he had shield piercing technology. This, However can be even more devious if he ties it with a Katana Dreadnought. He can have the Dreadnought go to a shipyard or station with this Executor arriving in advance and have the Dreadnought Turbolaser fire coincide with a volley from the Executor, giving it the impression that the dreadnought has some sort of Superweapon capable of such an attack. Heck, he doesn't even have to rely on Mad-Force users if Thrawn has this Executor deploy sensor anchors timed with the Dreadnought launching some false warheads, making it look like its a component of this Superweapon. Thrawn then can use his counter intelligence expertise to leak that these Katana Fleet dreadnoughts were all secretly equipped with this Weapon, Giving the impression that he has 178 Super ships and forcing the Republic to act along with intimidating or inspiring the major Unaligned or Warlord territories to his cause. Furthermore it can force the Republic to waste resources trying to understand how this weapon works with the 20 remaining Dreadnought in their possession, tying precious intelligence and defense on these glorified Scapegoats. (PS) I just realized Pellaeon came up of with this same exact plan in the First chapter of the Hand of Thrawn Duology and dismissed it as an easily noticeable rehash so take it for what you will.
Sometimes the best meals are reheated old ones. Just because it's an old trick doesn't mean it's a bad one. You just have to be careful how to use it so no one notices.
Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron.
As much as i love the Ender book series, Ender was a genius from the 10billion people on earth at the time, Thrawn was a genius in a galaxy full of beings. Not to mention Ender was studying years prior to his "games" to learn how the ships worked, how the "buggers' fought, build trust and respect with his jesh and his fellow military leaders. Thrawn was a very experienced military commander hand picked by the Emperor for his tactics, Thrawn would beat him hands down.
Something of note to consider, even though Thrawn still dies during the battle, an Imperial Victory at Bilbringi means that the Rebellion loses Ackbar, Rouge Squadron, and the smuggler alliance. That alone changes Galactic history pretty significantly as they all still had important roles to play in future conflicts.
@@sugarpsycho In Legends the hyperdrive has a .. fail safe .. that prevent a ship from jumping into hyperspace near mass shadows and causes the ship to drop to normal space to prevent collision with a gravity mass. People just consider it is suicidal to fly off into hyperspace without it turn on. It was stated in plenty of 1990's novels a ship can make jumps without the safety being turn on.
Vs matchup Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars) Johnson gets Br 55, 1 m6 sidearm and marine BDU Rex gets DC 15 rifle his pistols and phase 2 clone armor
This was a riveting video, Thrawn has always been my favourite character since I got Zahns original Thrawn Trilogy. A personal favourite ‘what if’ is what if Thrawn wasn’t assassinated? Had he, for instance, handled the Noghri differently and other events had mostly played out the same, resulting in him not being assassinated, would he have defeated the new republic? You’re video speaks of how Palleon would not be able to seize the advantage but I believe Thrawn might have. Thrawn’s empire would definately have been a better one, combining the power and organisation of Empire with the inclusivity of the republic. He definately would have made reforms. Ah, if only he lived longer… Glory to the Empire!
Thrawn has a weakness against the Force and Force sensitive people intervention. Also in Legends, Wedge Antilles is essentially undefeatable after the Death Star 2. Once he participates in a battle, they win. That's why Thrawn's mole diggers were essentially a defeat: Rogue Squadron just happens to be randomly passing through the system and Wedge joins the battle. If Thrawn had waited a day or so, or if RS wasnt there along with Luke and Co, Thrawn would have achieved his goals. The most interesting thing to me is Thrawn finding another Star Forge and using his dark Jedi to operate it. Thrawn's effectiveness is shown using hit and run Tactics, due to limited resources. In fact much of the stories I've seen involve him having reduced resources even during the Empire. How effective is Thrawn using unlimited resources? In Rebels he designs the Tie Defender and it ultimately outclassed anything the rebels could have fielded, essentially showing off what happens when you build an expensive Tie platform, but he's ultimately hindered by having only a singular production facility for Rebels to target, and is ultimately defeated by a Force User and the incompetence of his subordinates. If he had the resources of one of the large ship productions facilities and the Tie Defender was deployed en mass, the Rebel strategy of fighter based tactics would be done.
As stated, even an SSD couldn’t have saved Thrawn from Rukh’s blade. But I’m sure he would have found a use for an SSD, it *is* a powerful ship, both as a symbol and as a weapon. I just don’t think he’d have used it as a flagship and bragged about it as any typical Imperial would, it’d be just another piece in the game of chess he was playing with the New Republic.
i think it could have changed the tide of the war. a ssd is capable of countering bsaically an entire fleet of capital ships if properly protected. thrawn had the means to surround the ssd with hundreds of smaller escorts to annihilate the NRs fighter advantage and enough ISDs to back up the big boi that he could have forced the NR into a descisive battle
What if thraw discovered the maw installation and had the prototype Death Star and sun crusher? Daala would finally have the level headed commander she needed in thrawn
I think Thrawn would have likely used an SSD as sort of mobile base that could literally drift through interstellar void giving him a reliable safe haven. But most of all I think he would have kept it very very secret. Even if someone tried to track him down who would expect him to drop out of hyperspace in a seemingly random location nowhere near anything.
I mean Reaper going missing from Kaine's fleet would instantly clue people in that he'd almost certainly loaned it to Thrawn. (Then again there were numerous other dreadnoughts that had gone to the Deep Core too)
I've started considering an SSD to fill the same roles you would expect a space station to fill, namely get it into a place where it acts as a metaphorical wall that has to be directly confronted. The SSD seems too awkward to be used on the offensive as it can't addapt well to dynamic battle conditions but may serve well in assualts against space stations. My favorite remidies for making an SSD a terrifying offensive platform is to take full advantage of the massive hull. Eeven if you can't fit a super laser it should still, by all means, be able to support weapons commonly found planet side as orbital defenses such as the ion cannon in Episode V. With that kind of range and firepower an SSD would force the opponent to flee or close the distance into its inunmurable turbo lasers and onscene amount of fighter support. And that's not counting the mandatory escort fleet which would be no small matter by themselves.
Thrawn might look at SSDs like he did the Death Star. A complete waste of resources, that a small group of star destroyers could be as effective, for a fraction of the cost in resources. Why build a battle station like that, when you could make 1000 more ISDs, that he could hand over to the Chiss Ascendancy
Considering Thrawn seemed to despise throwing too much manpower and resources into a singular 'basket' i agree with @mark green that he would likely use it as bait, by present it just enough so that the rebels are terrified of where it may be and thus deploy resources into chasing a phantom rather than the actual stratagy that Thrawn would employ.
Another awesome vid man keep them up i reference alot of your videos when i have conversations about star wars i always find them amazingly informative and interesting keep up the great work love all urs vids and the effort you put in makeing them
Thrawn would probably replace every starfighter on SSD with a tie defender/advanced or a starwing, surround it with carracks an just mow down the battlegroups while having his ISDs for pincer maneuvers in the case where he gets himself in a less advantageous position. Kinda how you play empire at war against AI- throw in super star destroyer to sponge damage and outflank enemies with support cruisers when they are busy with the SSD
I think, as you said, if he had a SSD he could have gone after heavier targets, this would not only make the NR more uneasy, but also greatly increased the number of sites they would need to protect, leaving fewer ships to try and track Thrawn, additional, it would mean any plan to go after Thrawn and his fleet would require far more ships, and pulling ships from defending multiple high value target, thus making it harder to actually pull together and get support for, as if they’re wrong, and say they pull defenses from systems to attack his fleet, but instead a couple of the now undefeated targets were destroyed, the NR would likely never be able to pull defensive forces away to an offensive fleet ever again without massive pushback and outrage.
I think you're massively downplaying the usefulness of an SSD in the early stages of the Thrawn campaign. Above all else, the Grand Admiral is a master at getting into his opponents' heads, whether to manipulate them, or merely predict them. SSDs are terror weapons first and foremost. Tarkin described the effect brilliantly himself - the sheer scale and firepower of these things scares people so much, they give into fight-or-flight impulse rather than think about how to take them down rationally. Kaine's flagship even has the perfect name for such a terror weapon: the Reaper. Thrawn, being the master of psychology that he was, would've absolutely known about how he could use that fear factor to his advantage. Look at how the Nazi German Kriegsmarine used Tirpitz, or, in-universe, how the CIS used the Malevolence. Both ships did very little of actual significance, but they tied down countless assets, particularly capital ships, to defensive roles because of how much firepower they carried and how much fear they generated. If Thrawn erratically swapped out his normal raiding force for *a fucking Super Star Destroyer,* the New Republic wouldn't have any way to predict where the Reaper would strike next, and their systems and fleet live in fear of being caught outside of a stronghold by it. The New Republic would have to try and fortify literally every planet, and guard every convoy sufficiently, to repel an attack by an Executor - something they absolutely did not have the resources for, but would be forced to do anyways to prevent widespread loss of morale. Thus, the New Republic's resources, already nearly at the breaking point after Sluis Van, would be stretched even thinner. Not only would a concentrated attack like Bilbringi thus be more likely to result in a decisive New Republic defeat, but it would be harder for the New Republic to reinforce the battle adequately. Both of which play directly towards an Imperial victory.
@@paulrasmussen8953 as seen in the new trilogy, Thrawn actively opposes the idea of the Death Star. And its a very good thing his pet project lost or the rebels would have lost the war
I agree that Thrawn's fate was sealed, but his campaign might have been quite different with the Reaper at his disposal. He might not have been able to provide a full crew for it as a combat vessel, but as a logistical ship, it could serve as a mobile resupply or communication facility requiring a fraction of its full manpower. If he could crew it, I'm sure he would've taken more fights that his canon forces would've avoided. I quite enjoyed the video and would love to see more theory crafting from you in the future!
It is worth noting that the Lusankya was able to quickly blast a hole into the planetary shielding of Coruscant during Ysanne's escape from the planet, and made mincemeat of a few defensive skyhooks that were unfortunate enough to be along its escape route. An SSD would definitely have made a raid on Coruscant a viable option on Thrawn's table, even if the conquest of it remains impractical. I could see him launching a multi-pronged attack on other planets to draw away the heavier elements of the Coruscant defensive fleet, and then launch a supported Reaper to punch a hole through the shields of Coruscant in the vicinity of the Galactic Senate... and unless he had confirmation that key New Republic military leadership was present at the Senate, he'd launch a half-hearted bombardment of it more to scare politicians into committing more resources towards Coruscant's defense out of paranoia and making them more resistant to committing Coruscant Defense resources towards responding to Thrawn's attacks elsewhere... essentially emulating the effect that the Doolittle Raid had on the Japanese during WWII. It should be noted that the Lusankya was also handicapped in this instance due to both a massive repulsorlift cradle covering up any ventral gun emplacements preventing their use, and both the repulsorlift cradle and setting the ion thrusters to maximum drawing significant power away from the Lusankya’s shielding and weapons systems.
Lusankya was LET out, I think she may have made a small hole, but that's in a shield meant to keep things out, that was likely from projectors that were still damaged from Wedge's gamble and likely suffered even more damage just from Lucy tearing up the cityscape as she rose
This would be an awesome idea. I doubt Thrawn would care to use such a vessel as he would feel it would be a waste of resources and manpower. Now I would like to see an video on how Thrawn would improve starships as he seemed to be more practical on what he needs and where it is needed.
An alternative to secrecy it could be useful as "fleet in being", used sparingly. It would also gain him more support with Imperial remnants. He might get one or two additional capitulation out of that trick at Ukio if it was an SSD firing through a shield. I'm sure he could find some more creative uses for it, being such a smart smurf and all.
That would be utterly pants shittingly terrifying. make them think the ship's guns were just THAT damned powerful. 'you have one hour to capitulate to my request or I shall initiate base delta zero. starting.' *cloaked ship fires on a population center* 'There. I advise you use this time wisely.'
@@singletona082 I wonder how much he could milk that trick. The main thing is that the New Republic caught on fairly quickly, so if an SSD more convincingly sells the illusion of a shield-penetrating weapon and somehow delays serious investigation into possible trickery, that alone could win a couple more planets. After a few employments of the SSD he could switch to ISDs creating the illusion that the miracle technology is being adopted by the rest of his fleet, I don't know whether that helps at all but it would surely cause an even bigger scare!
I think part of what made Ukio terrifying was the idea he could shoot through shields with a single ISD. Also using Reaper for the Ukio trick would require giving... Joruus C'boath mind control of basically an entire super star destroyer. Even if the most important parts had Ysalamiri there's no way he could harvest enough to protect the majority of the ship.
@@DIEGhostfish I was thinking about the psychological impact of thinking only and SSD can accomplish it, only to be proven wrong when an ISD does it. It could potentially delay skepticism, then increase panic once the ISD is deployed, compared to if it were an ISD doing it from the beginning. I don't think Joruus matters here. They already couldn't block the force in the whole ISD and I'm fairly sure the possibility of mind control mutiny was addressed in the novel. An SSD would be even harder to control, slower to react, more expensive to maintain.
@@Arashmickey That IS a good idea and I actually was going to mention it could be interesting to have it start with the SSD so Thrawn could make the rebels think it went through a testbed and miniaturization procedure. But potentially losing an entire Executor class worth of troops to having to gas the vessel if Cboath rebelled is too risky.
"And the threat of a bigger hammer tends to have more impact (cough) than a smaller one" Something we used to say in the Army Motor-pool "is it doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. If that STILL doesn't work... get a bigger hammer. Go in deep and replace everything on the way out!"
#AskEck, what would happen if Legends Thrawn and Canon Thrawn confronted each other in a fair space battle. Alternatively I'd ask what if the Canon Thrawn was at Bilbringi, would it have changed anything?
If anyone could make efficient & effective use of a SSD it's Mitth'raw'nuruodo. Whether its using it to lay a trap, lay siege to a target of opportunity or maybe cannibalize it for parts. 😎
I think he'd have it minimally crewed, perhaps even stripping most of its armament for other ships, an SSD is good at 1 thing, drawing attention, he could use it as a sacrificial force, to draw NR fleets away from a target, long enough to launch an attack, then the SSD could jump away, if it hasn't been destroyed, and he can either do it again or use it for some other purpose, like say battering a planetary shield,
Yeah agreed, while the SSD was a force to be reckon with on its own, the logistics and men required to run one was not very beneficial for someone in his situation, it was more of a symbol and threat then an actual tool. Thrawn would find it useless until he had more men and planets under his control where he got sustain such a ship.
As a last resort, bad things turned decisively against his fleet he’d turn to them. Or as a hammer to deliver a final blow; if he’d managed to encircle Coruscant he’d deploy them as a final overwhelming push to fish the Republic off.
I completely agree with the video; an ISSD would not have worked with Thrawn's earlier strategies. The ISSD represents a shift from hit/run tactics toward more securing plant tactics. I am not sure what Thrawn's end goal was, but if he had an ISSD, he would be able to capture key planets such Kuat or other military assets.
I don’t think Thrawn would’ve used a super Star destroyer. Thrawn was a practical person, he believed in not waisting resources. If he was going to have his own flagship he porbablg would’ve used a Revenge class Star destroyer since it was half the size of the super star destroyer but it did have almost the same amount of fire power but it didn’t cost as many credits compared to the super star destroyer.
Honestly; he would have used it as a mobile command unit a supply ship. maybe even a mobile cloning facility. You are very right in the fact that it takes a massive amount of resources it is slow and it didn't fit his needs the beginning of the of the campaign. It would have been his home one
personally i think the loss of all the higher ups of the nr that were at bilbringi + loss of ships would put pelleon in a fantastic position to take on the nr
I think you're overlooking the thing that made Thrawn such an effective Star Wars villain following the Original Trilogy, which is that he was very much "Not Tarkin". In fact with the prequel / Clone War / Imperial Expansion "history" we have now, "Not Tarkin" is about the best description of Thrawn. He not only had his own ideas about warfare based around using tactics to use his enemy's strengths and weaknesses against them, but he was openly disdainful of the Tarkin Doctrine and the "bigger is better" approach taken by the emperor. Remember that he was exiled from the Empire's inner circle for openly questioning Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader over the Death Star. He says to Palleon that the Death Star and the SSD were a foolish concentration of so much of the Empire's resources in a single place for the rebels to take out in a single action and were a large part of why the Empire lost at Endor. Now, would he make a good use of a Super Star Destroyer? Certainly. Would it be in battle in a Tarkin style approach of "shock and awe"? Absolutely not. It would be a psychological weapon, bait in a trap to lure a Republic fleet, or something used to keep his opponents second-guessing about "when is this thing going to show up" instead of focusing on what Thrawn was really doing. He doesn't even need to crew it properly to do that. Thrawn's overall military strategy was based around small combined arms squadron cohesion and strategic flexibility... if that sounds like a Sci-Fi version of the Roman Empire's military at its height there's a good reason for that. In the later battles he deployed multiple combined ship type squadrons such as a single Star Destroyer with 4 Katana Fleet Dreadnaughts and relied upon C'Baoth's battle meditation to coordinate his forces. Same deal earlier on when he used squadrons of a single Star Destroyer with several frigates and other lighter ships. A Super Star Destroyer doesn't fit into that kind of deployment any more than a war elephant would have fit into the Roman army's legion deployments.
Here's a potential video "what if the first order had Thrawn?" While I know somethings wouldn't change I'm interested in what Thrawn's thoughts and how he would've used the first order's assets specifically the Supremacy on one hand I know he doesn't like large targets but the Supremacy was a effectively a mobile city state capable of large scale production and repairing of Star Destroyers something that I think he would appreciate.
I imagine Thrawn would have used a SSD in ways it wasn’t imagined. (Just think what an ssd could do in a hit in fade where it just jumped in to a spot where it didn’t need to move any more, and pummeling a planet or a station, then jumping out well before enforcements that were any danger to it arrived.) Super weapons weren’t his thing though. Executor was pretty darn close to that.
If thrown had a SSD it would’ve been game over. As an example, the battle of Bilbringi would’ve ensured a terrible defeat for the NR, and he was the type of strategist to never let the NR know about it until they COMMITTED to a fight like that, reveal it there, and decimate the entire fleet sent. Assuming he wasn’t killed at Bilbringi, which was a terrible way to end the story arc anyway. Edit: I wrote this before the part of your video where you talked about Bilbringi. We’re on the same page.
I feel like Thrawn would use an Executor as bait rather than as a flagship. The NR knew how terrifying an SSD can be, and they were quick to organize a task force to kill any that were discovered. I can see Thrawn leaking the location to the New Republic, attracting a large NR kill fleet to it, then Thrawn Pincering them into oblivion.
He wouldn't even have to kill the force that the new republic commits to it. You put on one good show of force with it to get the new republic afraid of it, but then you leave it with a crew small enough for it to fly and sort of parade it around the galaxy. The new republic will very much want to destroy this ship... but to do that would take a large investment of resources, and they'd have to get there *quickly* or the SSD could disappear into space before your forces arrive. A fleet that can kill a SSD is a significant investment of resources... but if you're going to draw a net around it that'll take *multiple* fleets that can kill a SSD. So you take advantage of all the systems that had to be left less defended building this task force... and if they stop respecting your super star destroyer, then you can just wheel it out again and make them remember why they invested all they did into stopping it.
This is probably the most "Thrawn-like" approach to having an SSD. Thrawn was ruthlessly anti-sentimental in his use of his assets, but understood the sentiment of his enemies. If he posessed an SSD, he wouln't necessarily see it as a powerful tool (his doctrine considered dreadnaught-class ships to be largely wasteful and ineffective), but as a powerful symbol to his enemies that he could exploit. Having one "on loan" from another warlord wouldn't be as valuable to him as one he could mess around with. If he had time and resources, I could see him secretly bolstering his own fleet with fighters and weapons stripped from the SSD, throwing a couple grav-well generators in it, giving it a skeleton crew and making what ammounts to an oversized, fleet killing fire-ship out of it. The New Republic shows up with a powerful fleet to counter Thrawn's SSD, and he traps them there and lets the SSD go nuclear in their midst, wrecking a sizable portion of the New Republic's forces. Meanwhile, Thrawn is casually sauntering in with thousands of heavy weapons and hundreds of fighters strapped to his existing fleet of ISDs and Katana ships to clean up the stragglers.
@@prophetisaiah08 we NEED a possibilities series.
By 5 ABY the New Republic was aware on how to fight against star dreadnoughts. They weren't existential threats. The Black Fleet uh like 12 years after Endor was primarily a political threat in that the New Republic would have to federalize some sector fleets
@@kevingriffith6011 This is the most likely scenario.
This is the joy of Thrawn. Throw him any pieces on the board you want, he'll make a strategy out of it. In the first of the new canon Thrawn books, he tells Vanto that ISD-sized vessels coupled with smaller support ships and fighters offer the most versatility of use for the most situations, and implies that many people make the mistake of thinking that bigger equals better.
That's not to say that Thrawn would not have approved of SSD in principle. If you consider the ISD to be a hammer, then the SSD would be a sledge hammer. Not nearly as useful as a regular hammer, as it can't be used nearly so often, but when it can be used you'll be glad you have the sledgehammer to hand instead of having to use the handheld. And the threat of a bigger hammer tends to have more impact (cough) than a smaller one.
If Thrawn had one, he'd find a way to use it. That's just how he is.
Agreed. Not his preferred tool of choice for a variety of reasons. However he is a pragmatist and if it is a tool at his disposal he will find a way to use it.
He could have penetrated the shields during the siege of Coruscant, not just cutting the planet off as in the books but directly striking targets on the ground.
The cloaked astroids he left behind were a large problem on their own, but if he did that while also using the SSD to punch thru the shields to strike major goverment buildings he could have inflicted even more chaos.
Exactly. A lot of people say Thrawn wouldn’t bother using it as he values mobility. However, if something like an SSD is thrown on to his lap, he’s not the type to waste it even if it’s against his doctrine.
-He could strip it of its weapons, majority of the crew, and squadrons which can be used to modify other ISDs to be stronger. The SSD meanwhile will be playing chicken. Run around and force the NR to chase it while he attacks elsewhere.
-He can convert it to a dedicated super carrier. Take out some weaponry, take away its ability to carry heavy ground forces, and maybe add some few hangers. Boom, you have an SSD with 2 fleet’s worth of starfighter squadrons.
-Use it as a troop carrier. This is inspired by the Battle of Boz Pity. He can load the shit of the SSD with troops and armored vehicles. Use Interdictors to pull the SSD into Coruscant’s orbit before they can raise the planetary shields. Meanwhile, the rest of the fleet jumps in to engage the defense fleet. Like Boz Pity, the SSD crash lands in Coruscant, ideally landing near the Senate and the Jedi Temple, and the troops carry out orders. Assault the Jedi Temple, the Senate, and military HQ. Hold hostages, especially Mon Mothma, and NR officers, while another group works its way to disable the planetary shields.
Btw, the SSD crash landed, but its guns can still work. Use it to fight off starfighters and provide fire support.
The hostages are merely the bait and to slow down NR troops. Main objective was always the planetary shield generator.
@@danielboatright8887 No, if the Hoth shield could keep out Death Squadron including the Executor, the Coruscant shield certainly could. Lusankya only escaped because they LET her go, rather than risk Isard turning her guns on the planet itself. It took an entire day of several ISDs, SSDs, and possibly torpedo spheres to bring down Coruscant's shields in Shadow Hand according to the short story Evacuation from Coruscant,
To continue the hammer analogy: imagine you're tapping a blindfolded person lightly with a hammer (representing your normal raid by an ISD and a few support ships). Then suddenly, you nail him with a sledgehammer (a raid by an SSD), giving no prior warning whatsoever. Even if you never use the sledgehammer again, that person is going to remain forever scared of being whacked with it, and forever tense and braced for that blow. Translating that to wartime, that means your opponent will start trying to entrench themselves and concentrating their forces to avoid being picked-off, which not only makes them more predictable, but opens holes in their defense you can exploit.
This is exactly how the Germans used the battleship Tirpitz in WWII. When convoy PQ17 heard she was en route to blow them to pieces, they scattered, and were subsequently picked off and massacred by submarines and aircraft, even though Tirpitz never fired a shot and actually didn't even leave port.
It could have also been used as something called a "fleet in being". It was a strategy used by the Germans in WW2. Basically, the British had to devote an entire fleet to being ready to take on the Tirpitz should she leave port. The SSD could basically paralyze New Republic fleet movements because they had to be ready to counter that ship, and they would never know if their next engagement might have them facing it.
Yep. It's much more valuable tying up Republic resources than being crewed and risked in battle.
That is until the RAF said "Screw it" and dropped earthquake bombs on the battleship.
@@noahcheckman8542 yes, but how many different operations did they undertake to do it? There were multiple air raids, a minisub raid, etc. To be honest, the tirpitz was a resource sink for both sides: the British either wanted to destroy it or at least keep it from leaving port through multiple operations, while the Germans had to man her and keep repairing her. For the Germans, it's hard to say if the effort was actually worth it. It might have been more effective if the Germans had been able to conceal her location.
it would be similar to modern times with the USA's fleet of aircraft carriers. In a wartime scenario Aircraft carriers will be prime targets because taking down a few of them will be a morale boost for the opposing side and a morale depressant for the owner. especially seeing that China and Russia focus on building missiles instead of huge surface ships. It is much more cost effective to spend the same money on a few hundred missiles rather than a huge war ship. If even three of the missiles take out the warship it is a huge economic blow to the enemy.
I was just thinking that
I think a loose fleet of Star Destroyers would've benefitted the Imperial Warlord era.
Being keenly aware of the vulnerabilities of a Star Dreadnought, I think Thrawn would ultimately find three uses for one:
- Bait. The Rebellion never passed up a chance to catch and kill a Star Dreadnought if they could. Many died at the hands of relatively small Rebel forces - crippled by earlier fighting, over-confidence of their commanders, or lack of a proper support force. Thrawn, seeing this, could leak evidence of a vulnerable or isolated Star Dreadnought - in fact, laying a bloody trap for a Republic fleet taking advantage of a target they could not ignore.
- Overlapping with the first, there's Diversion / Deterrence: Unguarded, a Star Dreadnought can seize even well-defended systems on its own. Thrawn, knowing this, could use one to tie up a fair fraction of the Rebel fleet warding against any aggressive maneuvers by it. Thus forcing his foes to tie down a portion of their forces, Thrawn could earn much more 'breathing room' for his main force.
- The killing hammer-blow. If I've made Star Dreadnoughts sound weak or useless in actual battle, that's a mistake. As Thrawn himself showed at Candoras, and both Rebellion and Empire would later show at Borleas, Adumar, and Celanon, a properly-supported Dreadnought can be the force that makes or breaks a battle. I have no doubt that when Thrawn felt it was time to bring a killing blow on his foes, he would bring his Dreadnought to bear as well.
I agree. Thrawn was never down on firepower during his campaign and thus I think he would not have used it just as a simple battering ram.
Honestly, I see two possibilities. The first is the one you mentioned, using it as bait to pull the Rebels into a trap. The second is the opposite: SSD guerilla warfare. Keep it constantly on the move, attacking sometimes on its own, sometimes with the fleet, and sometimes just nowhere, so the Rebels will never be sure where it's at or when Thrawn is going to hit a target with overwhelming force.
@@sethb3090 Yeah he would likely learn lessons from Zsinj and refine them.
And with Interdictors he could introduce one to a battle after it has started offsetting speed and manuver issues.
I think this Mr. House quote could very well sum up how Thrawn would use the Reaper (Or other SSD)
"I haven't shown my hand - I've shown one card. I've given my enemies a single, provocative datum upon which to fixate. They have no idea what other cards I'm holding. It's a strong hand, believe me - I dealt it to myself."
He'd likely use it to bully the less forthcoming imperial worlds into paying their dues and as a giant distraction piece for the New Republic. Much like Thrawn himself was not just a threat because of how smart he was, but because of how smart everyone THOUGHT he was. The SSD would be a threat not just because it is powerful but because it's something they can't afford to ignore and would need to tie up taskforces chasing.
The New Republic had a lot of resources hunting the Iron Fist. Thrawn loved drawing out fleets from their bases so he could hit the base, drawing ships on a hunt for a single ship would leave a massive gap for him to exploite.
Even if he faked the ship sightings it would still cause the New Republic to hunt for something that doesn't exist.
@@lukesearle1302 Exactly, and with Delta Source he'd have decent forewarning if they were actually close to trapping it with an interdictor.
@@DIEGhostfish we know from the hunt for the Iron Fist that the New Republic had none to hand really to spend on a hunt. In fact any Interdictor that the New Republic had would be a threat to Trawn and his hit and run attacks, that alone would be worth drawing it out to destroy it.
@@lukesearle1302 NR did have more resources after the Zsinj campaign, though how many interdictors they could throw out was plot dependant. New Class Modernization added a ton of tiny interdiction pickets, but really they probably didn't start turning out their own CC7700s till after they took Corellia, which was after Dark Empire by several years. Maybe Kuat turned out some interdiction after it fell shortly before Thrawn. (Honestly that story blurb from EGtW is pretty BS.)
That really is the question, why the hell did he never get an SSD? (Edit: Before the fall of the Empire I mean, Palpatine saw his tactical brilliance, and if anyone merited the command of an SSD, it was Thrawn)
I think he never wanted one
Either he didn't want one or the empire was playing some b******* political game
@@jamalsodipe772 probably political maybe xenophobic cuz we all know the empire is racist asf to any species besides human even to thrawn
Thrawn with a SSD would be a potential threat to Palpatine himself, or at least I'd guess that would be Palpatine's logic in denying his strongest super weapons to his most competent admiral at the time.
He didn't exist when the movies came out :/
I feel like an SSD is against Thrawn’s “cannon” military doctrine. He likes to use more ships and squadrons then just a very large one. But who knows I didn’t do much reading of the Legends books.
It could definitely be fit into his plans. Hit and fades can be quite nice if you never risk actually losing shields.
But that doesn't mean once he has a SSD he won't put it in good use.
You could also use it as the Fleet in Being Strategy.
True he would never commission one to be built but if one was salvaged or otherwise found then just scraping her is a poor choice in a era where next to no one has the resources to just make a entire navy from the ground up. from converted mon cal passenger liners to clone wars era victorys nearly everyone was useing what they had on hand rather than what they would like to make.
Hell this is what he did with the katana fleet dreadnought cruisers.
are they new, or flashy or fast... not realey but he had them on hand so may as well use them.
@@kurtuhlig2553 I didn't quite realize there was a name for how I sorta figured he'd use it. Though I wouldn't figure on leaving it truly in port, but roving around as a threat they can't afford to fully ignore.
#AskEcks : What if at the Battle of Atollon, when Konstatine disobeyed his orders and moved his Interdictor out of position, a bridge officer had removed him of his command _(perhaps with prejudice),_ and kept the Interdictor in formation. ?
Oh I LIKE that one. thrawn making sure competent loyal to him officers were on hand to make sure the interdictors STAYED PUT.
Then New hope would never happend
Literally thrawn lived
Tie defenders survived (since pryce attack didnt happend)
General Dodanna would have been captured
The portal of world between worlds would been activated could have gave great power to Sidious
One thing I have often thought of for this is that, given Thrawn's strategy, an SSD could be used as a "fleet in being." The very presence of an SSD could be used to tie down enemy forces or lure them to certain areas and away from others. This has been employed in real life naval warfare many times, using for example a Battleship that lacks adequate escorts to be deployed, as a lure for enemy forces. This would provide more breathing room for Thrawn's more flexible task forces. In this way, even an under crewed SSD could be more effective out of the fight than in it.
Look at Tirpitz. Her career didn't involve much but we kept 1 Iowa in the area to challenge her and the resources the Brits used to sink her is astounding
@@paulrasmussen8953 Glad you bring that up, meant to mention Tirpitz! Great example of what a fleet in being can do to tie up resources.
I remember in the "Courtship of Princess Leia" novel, the main Imperial villain was Warlord Zsinj who was in possession of an SSD called "Iron Fist", although it was destroyed during the events leading into the novel. During the novel Princess Leia says to Han Solo that it takes so much energy to run a Super Star Destroyer that only a handful could be used at any one time.
I could see Thrawn using it as a diversion or even as bait. Keep the New Republic chasing it while his regular strike fleets have more breathing room and a wider range of targets. If the NR didn't take the bait Trawn could punish them by striking a sensitive target with the SSD.
Effective bait is something that you can't afford to ignore, and NOBODY can afford to ignore a SSD.
It's also a very expensive bait.
I disagree with your assessment that an Executor class wouldn't be viable for hit and run tactics as that's exactly what Warlord Zsinj used his Executor class, Iron Fist for very successfully.
It's a powerful fleet in and of itself that could operate on its own freeing up more vessels for other duties. Thrawn wasn't opposed to SSDs at all, he simply was denied access to them in his campaign.
He would have been opposed to the supplies and amount of personnel before having the clones. At first anyway. Zsinj and Isard both complained about the limitations of being tied to an SSD. Hyperfuel alone would be somewhat bankrupting to Thrawn's supply abilities. Probably would keep it hidden until he had a supply base for it. Mods it with the interdicter tech when he could deploy it against NR fleets harassing his important systems?
In my opinion, on a tactical level its impractical choice being too large a sensor blob and far too slow in sublight.
BUT
On a strategic level its great with Six years of onboard supply's she can work always from base for as long as she likes and a class 2 hyper-drive means redeploying once a fleet large enough to kill you starts moving in to the sector is a valid option.
this excluded the Night-hammer who is good tactically as well.
@@dragonsword7370 Some corrections here. Fuel is treated vastly differently in Legends and DisCan, with fuel being far less of a concern for larger ships that run on reactors compared to starfighters and ground vehicles. Zsinj never complained about Iron Fist, it was specifically central to his strategic operation as a mobile capital, command ship, force projector and symbol, he actively tried to acquire a second Executor from Kuat-the Razors Kiss to supplement Iron Fist.
Isard also employed both Lusankya and an unnamed SSD of unknown class(the latter used to pick up General Derricote from Borleias) and she expressed love for Lusankya in Isard's Revenge, she's never quoted as being concerned with the logistics of maintaining the Super Star Destroyer, but that's mainly because Isard was not a military commander, nor did she have a grasp of those matters.
A single SSD is a massive military asset and threat. If used aggressively and creatively as Zsinj and Pellaeon on the Imperial side did and as Wedge and Ackbar did on the New Republic side they can decide battles and campaigns. You also forget that each super star destroyer held upwards of two years of consumables, garrisons, spare parts and prefab bases, they were for all intents and purposes, and entire fleet and army within a single vessel.
@@kybercat7 Tactically an SSD is still extremely viable, contrary to popular thought, they weren't slow at sublight speed, the Iron Fist was matching speed with Mon Remonda during the Hunt for Zsinj, and outpaced Imperial Star Destroyers at Kuat during Zsinj's raid there, Lusankya managed to blast its way out of Coruscant and leave the system before the home fleet could catch it, and Executor was able to nearly cut off the Millennium Falcon at Bespin.
The Essential Guide to Warfare states that Kaine keeping the Reaper denied Thrawn a powerful flagship, specifically implying Thrawn wanted it as his flagship until it was refused him. There's many reasons why the Reaper would have been superior to the Chimaera as a flagship for the Grand Admiral, firstly Executors were constructed as command vessels for entire fleets, they had the best personnel, equipment and escorts that could be provided, secondly the Reaper alone had more firepower than Thrawn's fleet at the start of his operations, it could have made the difference at Sluis Van or Bilbringi easily while also freeing up Thrawn's other Imperial Star Destroyers for other hit and hype raids.
Even the massive sensor blip is useful as it forces the New Republic to focus on the Super Star Destroyer and keep enough forces to counter it which effectively weakens them elsewhere for the rest of Thrawn's fleet.
It also hides all its guns under one very powerful shield, meaning you have to focus even more firepower on it to inflict any attrition before it jumps back out. An ISD fleet can be taken out piecemeal with focusfire.
As others have said, Thrawn criticized SSD designs for having a comparatively limited role to an escorted ISD fleet that could be made under the same resources. He did not think them weak in terms of actual application and design of the ship. A well-placed Executor-class with support is uncontested in sheer firepower, an Executor is a fleet in and of itself that can, even alone, enact full scale raids, cripple planets, and so long as an interdiction field is not established escape unscathed due to its enormous power generation and shields. The SSD is a lot better at raids than you suggest, much as others have mentioned with Zsinj. The biggest problem with an SSD without the Empire to support it is maintenance and supply, something difficult to continually supply but in the short term if he can fill the crews up he can likely gain access to those supplies through the raids and future conquest. An SSD would allow Thrawn to always have an enormous strike option if he keeps it in hyperspace range, able to drastically increase destruction at almost any time during a battle or to even put into operation another raiding fleet targeting other systems in high profile raids. Imagine the fear that would come seeing a high profile attack of an SSD, and knowing that SSD is out there somewhere. The SSD would have also allowed Thrawn to have the fleet strength to switch off of the stateless strategy towards conventional warfare much earlier through this enormous increase in force projection, power, command capabilities, and others, its important to remember an Executor is not just a sledgehammer, it is even more than an ISD a full command station and can launch invasions, support, supply, and command thousands of TIEs acting as a complete and full starfighter base, the SSD has an enormous presence over the battlefield at any time. The SSD would also lead the New Republic by the nose, public fear of it would skyrocket and so it would be captivated and controlled by the SSD, allowing Thrawn to plan around the intense need from the New Republic to hunt it down.
Years ago, my group at a game shop ran an RPG where we had five stander ISD work as engines for a mobile ship dockyard that had the appearance of being a SSD.
It would raid other ship yards for supplies firing off scores of dozens of ion cannon fire EMP the location and just flying off with everything it could. After a few games that mobile shipyard was mothball as a background campaign setting piece cause it was just to unbalancing to the game. It showed up, the fight was over.
Another important thing to mention, my shop was full of a bunch of word math nerds that bend any rule we came across and power wargame everything we get our hands on. We would use flak/ over size fragmentation grenades to wear out starfighters in mass area attacks yet still be of low enough yields not to get pass capitol ship shields DR. Along with using capitol ship quad ion cannons to EMP any other capitol ship that came within firing range.
Most of our Rebel heavy mid size space transports mine asteroid ore into high density iron rods for hyper speed kinetic impact missiles. So we played a very dirty game of dropping out of hyperspace and snipping ISD.
I feel that a Bellator Class SSD would suit Thrawn better. Still has the heavy firepower but with the speed and flexibility that Thrawn could exploit better in his tactics.
Bro the Bellator is the best dreadnought outright, faster, cheaper and practically speaking can do as much as a executor
Thrawn gaining a SSD would have needed a vast enlargement of his officer corp. Ship officers to command and crew it. Clones just would make up the crews. Even if Thrawn died a Officer in command of a SSD in Thrawns fleet might have held his forces together much longer than they did.
If Pellaeon were in charge of an SSD when Thrawn died, he likely wouldn't have retreated. Then again, the entire campaign likely would have gone much different
@@samueldimmock694 Or even if he did retreat, it would have given him a stronger position in regard to the other Imperial warlords rather than having to wait for Daala to bring Imperial forced back under a single command.
Eck : What if Thrawn had a super star destroyer
New Republic : Pls stop.
Imperials serving thrawn: HAHA TURBOLASERS GO BRRRRRR!
I feel like thrawn would you use the reaper to essentially use the ship to "jab" into the underbelly of the new republic. While his task force could do a blitzkrieg strike. when needed could recall the reaper in times to do a major push of a conventional strike, like how you said about the battle of bellbringi*
I think thrawn could have cause more damage to the new republic,thus allowing the warlords to make a more significant gain before the end of the war.
I would love to See your Idea to leave the reaper without Crew some where hidden in the Mando Verse.
A secret Thrawns that the Rangers of the New Republic can find out about in their series
Wird es dazu ein Video geben ? ;)
Why would someone do that tho
I kind of don't want Grand Admiral Thrawn to be the main villain.
Plot Twist: Thrawn has an SSD in the upcoming Filoniverse.
I feel like the mere fact of having an SSD is a boon. It is such a symbol of power and destruction it immediately draws attention, and that's how I think Thrawn would use it. Immediately shift the enemies attention and cause them to act rashly since there is a hulking dreadnought floating Infront of him. Additionally we can't forget that an SSD is as much of a politician tool as a military one.
Alright. As crazy as it might sound, my team (Me and two or three others) actually did more or less what you said about the revised Battle of Bilbringi in our upcoming fan novel trilogy. We are trying to use pre-existing material from Legends as much as possible in order to make callbacks the hardcore fans will recognize and respect. Our story is written to fit in the Disney canon as much as possible (Even though the overall continuity of the Canon itself is busted). We would very much hope to get your opinion on weather fanfiction (especially HEAVILY researched plots) are worth the time it takes to write them. We do not wish to be annoying in any sort of way. We simply wish for an authority on both SW timelines to take a look at the overall plot and determine weather it is worth writing. Tangents aside though, I do agree with your assessment of Thrawn's predicted use of an SSD. More of a shock and psychological tool than anything else.
Im not Eck but if you love doing it, then of course it's worth doing. That's where all the worth comes from
I can also see Thrawn being one of the few strategists that would be willing to sacrifice a SSD.
Trick the New Republic into overextending themselves to address a major new threat and then blow it up along with a sizable chunk of the enemy armada and fighters.
Thrawn? with a Super Star Destroyer?
you have my full attention, been waiting for you to talk about this topic for a while.
Thrawn did not like SSDs as a concept, they are extremely inefficient resource wise. However, most of that inefficiency lies in their building, not specifically their use. When you can build 5 Impstar Dueces for 1 SSD, it's better to have all 5 that you can split up for 5 small attacks than 1 big one. As pointed out, by Eck and even the Thrawn Trilogy itself, eventually he NEEDS to have big attacks. Sluis Van, Bilbringi, Ukio. A SSD would be perfect for all 3, especially if he kept all of his starting assets and received it. I don't think he would make it his flagship, but I do think he would make it a central feature.
Thrawn had no issues showing up himself for key battles, but as seen in the Katana Fleet recovery, he had no problem delegating crucial operations to his captains. A loyalist captain, maybe even one from the Empire of the Hand, would likely be brought in as a full admiral for the ship. The captain would maintain control to not feel slighted or politically oppose him, and he would be able to entrust key missions to the admiral more than the captain. And an SSD certainly ranked an admiral.
Why would an SSD be so useful to him, especially at those big battles? Thrawn LOVED to drain a sector of its resources through feints. Eventually, the New Republic would and DID catch on to it. But an SSD is an insurmountable threat, that any NORMAL imperial would obviously be using as their flagship and main thrust. New Republic Intelligence would be tracking it with everything they could muster, and it would ALWAYS be assumed to have Thrawn aboard, especially with his handpicked admiral to call the shots on it and always meet expectations. It would be a free decoy for him, while being effective enough to BE the main thrust when needed. With an SSD he could rely not only on his own presence to win a strategic battle, but a competent sledge hammer as well when that would work. He could suddenly double his own "masterstrokes" by not having to just rely on himself.
Thrawn was always shown as a "one man navy" so to speak. His own presence was enough to guarantee victory, because if it wasn't he would simply retreat. An SSD under a protégé Admiral, would likely continue that trend of retreat if needed. Combined with his own strategic planning and competent use of his new Sledgehammer, he would ALSO have a powerful propaganda weapon as the New Republic would assume he was on the SSD, and see some "NEW omnipotent miracle worker on the ISD Chimeara" as well. They would start seeing "Thrawns genius spreading" and soon every smart independent move by one of the OTHER captains would start a myth of a proganda "deep genius bench" where even if Thrawn was "killed" by targeting the SSD there's 2, now 4, now 10 captains to replace him. And Thrawn THRIVES on propaganda and narrative control like that, and would happily play into it.
The key to that strategy is 2 fold, the ISD having a competent Admiral, which "worst case" could easily be Gilad Pellaeon, and Thrawn remaining on the Chimeara for the most part to let the effects start speaking for themselves.
The difference between Thrawn holding a sledgehammer and a trusted Admiral holding it aren't going to be obvious, especially considering that Thrawn would still be the strategic mastermind. Someone like Pellaeon weilding it would look almost identical since SSD tactics are fairly universal, it's their strategic approach that differentiates their effectiveness, which is why Lusankya did nothing of note combat wise until under the New Republic. Sure Thrawn preferred a Scalpal, but he used the Sledgehammer too when called for such as the second Myrkr raid to crush Karrdes old base, to see who scrambled after.
In conclusion, Thrawn would likely use an SSD in a similar way. A strategic Sledgehammer to replace his tactical genius prowess with an effective second strategic fleet. He would likely also benefit from the confusion and focus on it, and would minimize his strategic risks by splitting his strategically effective fleets into "two baskets" so to speak. He would finally, also have the perfect opportunity to run a propaganda campaign to even more efficiently demoralize and stoke the inevitable dread of "Thrawn controls everything we're doing" he was so masterfully using during his campaign as being able to start more rumors of his "protégés" taking over as well
It's waaaaaayyyy more than five ISDs, just on raw material alone.
Very well put!
Forget a SSD, I’d love to see what Thrawn could do with a fleet of Legacy Era ships like the Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer, it’s larger variant the Imperious-class Star Destroyer, and the Ardent-class Fast Frigate, along with the TIE Predator starfighter. Although even if he had to make do with Galactic Civil War Era starfighters, as long as his ship of the line was the Pellaeon, I think he’d be able to dominate. Give him TIE Interceptors as his standard fighter, TIE Avengers as his elite fighter, and TIE Defender or Missile Boat as his elite fighter-bomber. With all of that plus at least a dozen Pellaeon Star Destroyers (in addition to other supporting ships), he could do great things.
Thrawn is my favorite. He would have made the difference at Endor.
only if Palpy let him ... If Thrawn had been in charge of the defense the rebels would have been hit before they could figure out that the DS2s shield was still up ... and by a larger force that would potentially have hit them from much closer (like be a single system or less away and hyperspace in behind the rebels and hit them while they try to abort the approach) ... but all of this contradicts Palpy's desire to blast them to dust with the DS2
Thrawn wouldn’t hide an SSD in an asteroid field, he’d slap the Empire’s cloaking technology on it. It would take him four months to grow enough clones to fully staff said ship which wouldn’t be worth doing as that’s a major commitment away from crewing other ships in the fleet; bolstering the army etc. I’d suspect any SSD would be used with interdictors to force NR ships to surrender rather than be destroyed.
If Thrawn had a SSD, the Rebels would still have plot armor to counter it
What if: Thrawn was given an SSD?
Answer: He’d give it to Faro and say: “Have fun.”
He probably would have it scraped and used for more valuable and expendable ships
Scrapping it all at once creates downtime. Also if the enemy doesn't have an interdictor a Super is actually amazing for hit and runs because of how long it takes to drop the shields, letting them tilt the ratio more towards hitting.
@@DIEGhostfish Hit and run? The SSD is slow. Second Thrawn hated useless waist of large super weapons. Proven with his disdain of the death star.
@@davidkeen4972 That just means he wouldn't make them but he does know how to use them.
@@davidkeen4972 It only needs to be able to turn its nose enough to jump away, Realspace speed isn't important especially if he can deploy it via Thrawn Pincer.
@@davidkeen4972 not that slow and can tank more
A game mod called Thrawn's revenge answered this nicely. His faction put a cloak on it, using the ship to hurt enemy morale. A little less powerful then opposing supercaps but imagine never knowing if a SSD might suddenly appear off your formation to broadside you. Any opposing commander would have to factor it in and plan conservative, not to mention less heavily shielded targets such as shipyards screaming for enough garrison in case it was to suddenly appear. Unleashing several salvos before disappearing just as suddenly.
You are missing a level of strategy that ssd would offer. He would keep it at the rear of the engagements early in his campaign with a skeleton crew when he was conquering star systems without a single shot fired. In this roll the fear level would make a huge difference more than the use of firepower.
Later on a fully shielded ssd would still be able to take a massive beating, leaving his smaller ships unhindered to focus engagements.
As he grew in imperial support and it became manned the ship would then be used to It's full potential.
You have to think like a Grand Admiral and understand how to deploy those resources before you see the complexity of beneficial uses that doesn't necessarily equal offensive.
Thrawn in the books was against using anything much larger than a victory class destroyer, claiming it was a waste of resources
In the new thrawn trilogy he specifically says "Star destroyer-sized capital ships and large numbers of supporting starfighters are the most efficient and flexible naval array for both deterrent and combat."
Not to say he wouldn't have a good use for them, but I think it's pretty clear he would prefer a couple more ISDs and a handful of light cruisers over a SSD.
I’d think the only type of ssd thrawn would want is a bellator
Commander, I am here...
How much would he be helped not by having an ssd per se, but by having a flagship with a class 1 hyperdrive instead of the Chimera's class 2?
EckhartsLadder: Mentions "Yukio"
My mind: It's time to d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-duel!
Ukio.
The thought that comes to my mind would be either;
1,use the use the SSD to do symbolic attacks while his main fleet carries out strategic important attacks. Like while he is building up the numbers of his fleet, have the SSD launch raids or a campaign on places like Dantooine, Yavin 4, etc... small in the big picture, but as long as there is technically a presence and a symbolic Rebel connection, an SSD causing destruction would be a nice distraction.
or 2, use it as a buffer in battle. At the battle of Coruscant, Thrawn could use the SSD to soak up New Republic attacks while his primary force focuses on maximizing the impact of his attack.
I think Yavin 4 had no real NR presence till Luke set up shop there in the JAT after Dark Empire which was after Thrawn. And Dantooine was little more than a temporary base. But the idea of the Reaper as just something they have to chase would have suited him
Hi Eck, I have been thinking and I would say what Thrawn would want the most is better communications! He used a dark 'insane' Jedi as a communication system to allow better coordination for attacks. If he could achieve that near instantaneous communication and coordination between fleets that I believe would be better for him than a hundred SSD's.
A hundred fully-manned and supplied SSDs would probably make the New Republic surrender without a fight, allowing him to save his resources for the Yuuzhan Vong War--assuming he managed the political side of victory well enough and didn't just cause a second rebellion. Keeping with that assumption, he could then recruit Luke, a light and non-insane Jedi, to do that communication/coordination. That said, once he had won, the Jedi would be far more valuable to him than the ships that had paved the way to recruiting them.
If he did the rebel alliance will be in big trouble
I have to assume the lack of an SSD was a limitation put upon Zahn when he was writing the books. After all, at the time, I'm pretty sure the Executor was the only SSD that was known when he wrote the books. Back then, we had no reason to believe there were ever more than the one.
So, a more interesting question would be - what kind of Thrawn would Timothy Zahn have written if the character had been in command of an SSD from the beginning?
3:08 Ehh an SSD can be pretty good for hit and run if the enemy has no interdictor. It's all those guns under a shield that can last longer under sustained fire than an ISD, and thus "Hit" for a few minutes longer in any Hit-and-Run.
A single strafing run from an Executor class would be pretty brutal on most targets, not sure how long the turnover is from dropping out of hyperspace until you can jump back into it.
Even interdictors would not be that big of a problem to a SSD. It would have more than enough fire power to turn them into space dust and enough range to hit them from anywhere if they were close enough to keep it from being able to jump.
@@josephmoses4256 Interdictor ranges are generally depicted as well beyond turbolaser range at least if used in conical form.
His need for clones to crew it would largely depend on where he gets it from. The Reaper from the Pentastar Alignment should come with a full complement, but other sources might have less/no crew, such as Dominion and Megador under Harrsk in the Deep Core and others would have to be repaired, such as Drommel's Guardian.
Guardian could have made very good bait, successfully towing it to a real repair yard, or moving enough modular deepdock stations to repair it in place at an actually useful speed would be very very risky, for not much reward since that's a ton of tow ships, or worse, drydocks not constructing other ships. And there's just a ton of risk of interception since the galaxy was closer to 50-50 in power at the time. The NR didn't really even start rebuilding Lusankya till after Thrawn.
But the Guardian COULD make incredible bait.
Video idea what if thrawn had an eclipse
On the one hand, even more wasteful than an executor, and burning a world to ash is almost always counterproductive. But on the other an Eclipse CAN do what he needed a complex bluff with a force user and a cloaking device to pull off. Pierce planetary shields.
The opening scene of this video is from “Star Wars Tie Fighter Deluxe Edition CD ROM”, the greatest Star Wars flight sim/battle campaign game of all time. I really wish Lucas Arts would revive it for PS4.
Fleet battle
Rebel fleet at Endor vs. Cole’s fleet at Cole’s last stand
Here's a Thrawn-esque tactic that could be used if the Grand Admiral employed a Super Star Destroyer.
So Thrawn had cloaking devices right, he used them over Coruscant with the Asteroids. What if he retrofitted this theoretical Executor with said Cloaking Shields (As seen with the prototype Executor depicted in Star Wars Rebel Strike) and utilize it akin to his Strategy above Ukio where he snuck a cloaked Dreadnought through the Shield and gave the impression that he had shield piercing technology.
This, However can be even more devious if he ties it with a Katana Dreadnought. He can have the Dreadnought go to a shipyard or station with this Executor arriving in advance and have the Dreadnought Turbolaser fire coincide with a volley from the Executor, giving it the impression that the dreadnought has some sort of Superweapon capable of such an attack. Heck, he doesn't even have to rely on Mad-Force users if Thrawn has this Executor deploy sensor anchors timed with the Dreadnought launching some false warheads, making it look like its a component of this Superweapon.
Thrawn then can use his counter intelligence expertise to leak that these Katana Fleet dreadnoughts were all secretly equipped with this Weapon, Giving the impression that he has 178 Super ships and forcing the Republic to act along with intimidating or inspiring the major Unaligned or Warlord territories to his cause. Furthermore it can force the Republic to waste resources trying to understand how this weapon works with the 20 remaining Dreadnought in their possession, tying precious intelligence and defense on these glorified Scapegoats.
(PS) I just realized Pellaeon came up of with this same exact plan in the First chapter of the Hand of Thrawn Duology and dismissed it as an easily noticeable rehash so take it for what you will.
Sometimes the best meals are reheated old ones. Just because it's an old trick doesn't mean it's a bad one. You just have to be careful how to use it so no one notices.
I would NOT trust Joruus to mindlink with a Super Star Destroyer, which would be required to use the cloak.
Fleet battle between
Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin
Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron.
If you're going to continue being persistent with this, you may as well start counting the attempts in each subsequent comment.
As much as i love the Ender book series, Ender was a genius from the 10billion people on earth at the time, Thrawn was a genius in a galaxy full of beings. Not to mention Ender was studying years prior to his "games" to learn how the ships worked, how the "buggers' fought, build trust and respect with his jesh and his fellow military leaders.
Thrawn was a very experienced military commander hand picked by the Emperor for his tactics, Thrawn would beat him hands down.
I mean he lost by plot not by military defeat so it wouldn't really change the outcome
I think thrawn would use it as bait. Lure the new republic's best ground forces and pilots to try and capture it. Then blow it up.
The empire are the baddies, but when we look at Thrawn we want him to win.
I hope we get much more of Thrawn in film soon.
Something of note to consider, even though Thrawn still dies during the battle, an Imperial Victory at Bilbringi means that the Rebellion loses Ackbar, Rouge Squadron, and the smuggler alliance. That alone changes Galactic history pretty significantly as they all still had important roles to play in future conflicts.
Smuggler alliance would have broke and run, live to smuggle another day.
@@krispalermo8133 Not with all of those interdictor cruisers blocking hyperspace travel.
@@sugarpsycho In Legends the hyperdrive has a .. fail safe .. that prevent a ship from jumping into hyperspace near mass shadows and causes the ship to drop to normal space to prevent collision with a gravity mass. People just consider it is suicidal to fly off into hyperspace without it turn on. It was stated in plenty of 1990's novels a ship can make jumps without the safety being turn on.
Worse than losing Akbar, Thrawn specifically intended to let him escape from the battle to throw doubts on his loyalty to the New Republic
I’m sure Trawn could make use of a SSD, but could just as easily get along without.
Vs matchup Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars)
Johnson gets Br 55, 1 m6 sidearm and marine BDU
Rex gets DC 15 rifle his pistols and phase 2 clone armor
This was a riveting video, Thrawn has always been my favourite character since I got Zahns original Thrawn Trilogy.
A personal favourite ‘what if’ is what if Thrawn wasn’t assassinated? Had he, for instance, handled the Noghri differently and other events had mostly played out the same, resulting in him not being assassinated, would he have defeated the new republic?
You’re video speaks of how Palleon would not be able to seize the advantage but I believe Thrawn might have.
Thrawn’s empire would definately have been a better one, combining the power and organisation of Empire with the inclusivity of the republic. He definately would have made reforms. Ah, if only he lived longer…
Glory to the Empire!
Basically, Thrawn would completely annihilate his opponents, no matter what he had.
Thrawn has a weakness against the Force and Force sensitive people intervention.
Also in Legends, Wedge Antilles is essentially undefeatable after the Death Star 2. Once he participates in a battle, they win. That's why Thrawn's mole diggers were essentially a defeat: Rogue Squadron just happens to be randomly passing through the system and Wedge joins the battle. If Thrawn had waited a day or so, or if RS wasnt there along with Luke and Co, Thrawn would have achieved his goals.
The most interesting thing to me is Thrawn finding another Star Forge and using his dark Jedi to operate it. Thrawn's effectiveness is shown using hit and run Tactics, due to limited resources. In fact much of the stories I've seen involve him having reduced resources even during the Empire. How effective is Thrawn using unlimited resources? In Rebels he designs the Tie Defender and it ultimately outclassed anything the rebels could have fielded, essentially showing off what happens when you build an expensive Tie platform, but he's ultimately hindered by having only a singular production facility for Rebels to target, and is ultimately defeated by a Force User and the incompetence of his subordinates. If he had the resources of one of the large ship productions facilities and the Tie Defender was deployed en mass, the Rebel strategy of fighter based tactics would be done.
Unless they're space whales
Let’s be real. If he had one he would scrap it and turn it into a bunch of frigates
As stated, even an SSD couldn’t have saved Thrawn from Rukh’s blade.
But I’m sure he would have found a use for an SSD, it *is* a powerful ship, both as a symbol and as a weapon.
I just don’t think he’d have used it as a flagship and bragged about it as any typical Imperial would, it’d be just another piece in the game of chess he was playing with the New Republic.
i think it could have changed the tide of the war. a ssd is capable of countering bsaically an entire fleet of capital ships if properly protected. thrawn had the means to surround the ssd with hundreds of smaller escorts to annihilate the NRs fighter advantage and enough ISDs to back up the big boi that he could have forced the NR into a descisive battle
What if thraw discovered the maw installation and had the prototype Death Star and sun crusher? Daala would finally have the level headed commander she needed in thrawn
I think Thrawn would have likely used an SSD as sort of mobile base that could literally drift through interstellar void giving him a reliable safe haven. But most of all I think he would have kept it very very secret.
Even if someone tried to track him down who would expect him to drop out of hyperspace in a seemingly random location nowhere near anything.
I mean Reaper going missing from Kaine's fleet would instantly clue people in that he'd almost certainly loaned it to Thrawn. (Then again there were numerous other dreadnoughts that had gone to the Deep Core too)
I've started considering an SSD to fill the same roles you would expect a space station to fill, namely get it into a place where it acts as a metaphorical wall that has to be directly confronted. The SSD seems too awkward to be used on the offensive as it can't addapt well to dynamic battle conditions but may serve well in assualts against space stations. My favorite remidies for making an SSD a terrifying offensive platform is to take full advantage of the massive hull. Eeven if you can't fit a super laser it should still, by all means, be able to support weapons commonly found planet side as orbital defenses such as the ion cannon in Episode V. With that kind of range and firepower an SSD would force the opponent to flee or close the distance into its inunmurable turbo lasers and onscene amount of fighter support. And that's not counting the mandatory escort fleet which would be no small matter by themselves.
I wonder how freeing the Falcon from the Chimera would have gone if instead of the Chimera, it had been an SSD
Thrawn might look at SSDs like he did the Death Star. A complete waste of resources, that a small group of star destroyers could be as effective, for a fraction of the cost in resources. Why build a battle station like that, when you could make 1000 more ISDs, that he could hand over to the Chiss Ascendancy
Wouldn’t the Pentastar alignment provide Thrawn with personnel along with the super Star destroyer?
There’s no need for clones.
Considering Thrawn seemed to despise throwing too much manpower and resources into a singular 'basket' i agree with @mark green that he would likely use it as bait, by present it just enough so that the rebels are terrified of where it may be and thus deploy resources into chasing a phantom rather than the actual stratagy that Thrawn would employ.
Another awesome vid man keep them up i reference alot of your videos when i have conversations about star wars i always find them amazingly informative and interesting keep up the great work love all urs vids and the effort you put in makeing them
Thrawn would probably replace every starfighter on SSD with a tie defender/advanced or a starwing, surround it with carracks an just mow down the battlegroups while having his ISDs for pincer maneuvers in the case where he gets himself in a less advantageous position.
Kinda how you play empire at war against AI- throw in super star destroyer to sponge damage and outflank enemies with support cruisers when they are busy with the SSD
I think, as you said, if he had a SSD he could have gone after heavier targets, this would not only make the NR more uneasy, but also greatly increased the number of sites they would need to protect, leaving fewer ships to try and track Thrawn, additional, it would mean any plan to go after Thrawn and his fleet would require far more ships, and pulling ships from defending multiple high value target, thus making it harder to actually pull together and get support for, as if they’re wrong, and say they pull defenses from systems to attack his fleet, but instead a couple of the now undefeated targets were destroyed, the NR would likely never be able to pull defensive forces away to an offensive fleet ever again without massive pushback and outrage.
Thrawn is the true emperor
I think you're massively downplaying the usefulness of an SSD in the early stages of the Thrawn campaign. Above all else, the Grand Admiral is a master at getting into his opponents' heads, whether to manipulate them, or merely predict them.
SSDs are terror weapons first and foremost. Tarkin described the effect brilliantly himself - the sheer scale and firepower of these things scares people so much, they give into fight-or-flight impulse rather than think about how to take them down rationally. Kaine's flagship even has the perfect name for such a terror weapon: the Reaper. Thrawn, being the master of psychology that he was, would've absolutely known about how he could use that fear factor to his advantage. Look at how the Nazi German Kriegsmarine used Tirpitz, or, in-universe, how the CIS used the Malevolence. Both ships did very little of actual significance, but they tied down countless assets, particularly capital ships, to defensive roles because of how much firepower they carried and how much fear they generated. If Thrawn erratically swapped out his normal raiding force for *a fucking Super Star Destroyer,* the New Republic wouldn't have any way to predict where the Reaper would strike next, and their systems and fleet live in fear of being caught outside of a stronghold by it.
The New Republic would have to try and fortify literally every planet, and guard every convoy sufficiently, to repel an attack by an Executor - something they absolutely did not have the resources for, but would be forced to do anyways to prevent widespread loss of morale. Thus, the New Republic's resources, already nearly at the breaking point after Sluis Van, would be stretched even thinner. Not only would a concentrated attack like Bilbringi thus be more likely to result in a decisive New Republic defeat, but it would be harder for the New Republic to reinforce the battle adequately. Both of which play directly towards an Imperial victory.
Too bad he doesn't think ships that size are an efficient use of resources.
@@bloq6758 Not totally, but even assuming unlimited resources it's still not Thrawn's style to waste resources.
But if given one he would use it. I think if he had the choice of Death Star or more SSDs he go SSD
@@paulrasmussen8953 I agree with both of your points.
@@paulrasmussen8953 as seen in the new trilogy, Thrawn actively opposes the idea of the Death Star. And its a very good thing his pet project lost or the rebels would have lost the war
@@josephmoses4256 he always opposed their construction. But he would use them if given
I agree that Thrawn's fate was sealed, but his campaign might have been quite different with the Reaper at his disposal. He might not have been able to provide a full crew for it as a combat vessel, but as a logistical ship, it could serve as a mobile resupply or communication facility requiring a fraction of its full manpower. If he could crew it, I'm sure he would've taken more fights that his canon forces would've avoided.
I quite enjoyed the video and would love to see more theory crafting from you in the future!
It is worth noting that the Lusankya was able to quickly blast a hole into the planetary shielding of Coruscant during Ysanne's escape from the planet, and made mincemeat of a few defensive skyhooks that were unfortunate enough to be along its escape route. An SSD would definitely have made a raid on Coruscant a viable option on Thrawn's table, even if the conquest of it remains impractical. I could see him launching a multi-pronged attack on other planets to draw away the heavier elements of the Coruscant defensive fleet, and then launch a supported Reaper to punch a hole through the shields of Coruscant in the vicinity of the Galactic Senate... and unless he had confirmation that key New Republic military leadership was present at the Senate, he'd launch a half-hearted bombardment of it more to scare politicians into committing more resources towards Coruscant's defense out of paranoia and making them more resistant to committing Coruscant Defense resources towards responding to Thrawn's attacks elsewhere... essentially emulating the effect that the Doolittle Raid had on the Japanese during WWII.
It should be noted that the Lusankya was also handicapped in this instance due to both a massive repulsorlift cradle covering up any ventral gun emplacements preventing their use, and both the repulsorlift cradle and setting the ion thrusters to maximum drawing significant power away from the Lusankya’s shielding and weapons systems.
Lusankya was LET out, I think she may have made a small hole, but that's in a shield meant to keep things out, that was likely from projectors that were still damaged from Wedge's gamble and likely suffered even more damage just from Lucy tearing up the cityscape as she rose
Now *this* is where the fun begins
I had always assumed that there were 12 Super Star Destroyers with whitewashed hull armor and that the Chimera was one of them.
What if Thrawn was the Emperor?
This would be an awesome idea. I doubt Thrawn would care to use such a vessel as he would feel it would be a waste of resources and manpower. Now I would like to see an video on how Thrawn would improve starships as he seemed to be more practical on what he needs and where it is needed.
An alternative to secrecy it could be useful as "fleet in being", used sparingly. It would also gain him more support with Imperial remnants. He might get one or two additional capitulation out of that trick at Ukio if it was an SSD firing through a shield. I'm sure he could find some more creative uses for it, being such a smart smurf and all.
That would be utterly pants shittingly terrifying. make them think the ship's guns were just THAT damned powerful. 'you have one hour to capitulate to my request or I shall initiate base delta zero. starting.' *cloaked ship fires on a population center* 'There. I advise you use this time wisely.'
@@singletona082 I wonder how much he could milk that trick. The main thing is that the New Republic caught on fairly quickly, so if an SSD more convincingly sells the illusion of a shield-penetrating weapon and somehow delays serious investigation into possible trickery, that alone could win a couple more planets. After a few employments of the SSD he could switch to ISDs creating the illusion that the miracle technology is being adopted by the rest of his fleet, I don't know whether that helps at all but it would surely cause an even bigger scare!
I think part of what made Ukio terrifying was the idea he could shoot through shields with a single ISD. Also using Reaper for the Ukio trick would require giving... Joruus C'boath mind control of basically an entire super star destroyer. Even if the most important parts had Ysalamiri there's no way he could harvest enough to protect the majority of the ship.
@@DIEGhostfish I was thinking about the psychological impact of thinking only and SSD can accomplish it, only to be proven wrong when an ISD does it. It could potentially delay skepticism, then increase panic once the ISD is deployed, compared to if it were an ISD doing it from the beginning. I don't think Joruus matters here. They already couldn't block the force in the whole ISD and I'm fairly sure the possibility of mind control mutiny was addressed in the novel. An SSD would be even harder to control, slower to react, more expensive to maintain.
@@Arashmickey That IS a good idea and I actually was going to mention it could be interesting to have it start with the SSD so Thrawn could make the rebels think it went through a testbed and miniaturization procedure. But potentially losing an entire Executor class worth of troops to having to gas the vessel if Cboath rebelled is too risky.
"And the threat of a bigger hammer tends to have more impact (cough) than a smaller one" Something we used to say in the Army Motor-pool "is it doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. If that STILL doesn't work... get a bigger hammer. Go in deep and replace everything on the way out!"
#AskEck, what would happen if Legends Thrawn and Canon Thrawn confronted each other in a fair space battle. Alternatively I'd ask what if the Canon Thrawn was at Bilbringi, would it have changed anything?
This is a real good one.
They are practically the same guy so doesn't matter
Legends Thrawn is Superior
If anyone could make efficient & effective use of a SSD it's Mitth'raw'nuruodo. Whether its using it to lay a trap, lay siege to a target of opportunity or maybe cannibalize it for parts. 😎
I think he'd have it minimally crewed, perhaps even stripping most of its armament for other ships, an SSD is good at 1 thing, drawing attention, he could use it as a sacrificial force, to draw NR fleets away from a target, long enough to launch an attack, then the SSD could jump away, if it hasn't been destroyed, and he can either do it again or use it for some other purpose, like say battering a planetary shield,
Yeah agreed, while the SSD was a force to be reckon with on its own, the logistics and men required to run one was not very beneficial for someone in his situation, it was more of a symbol and threat then an actual tool. Thrawn would find it useless until he had more men and planets under his control where he got sustain such a ship.
As a last resort, bad things turned decisively against his fleet he’d turn to them. Or as a hammer to deliver a final blow; if he’d managed to encircle Coruscant he’d deploy them as a final overwhelming push to fish the Republic off.
I completely agree with the video; an ISSD would not have worked with Thrawn's earlier strategies. The ISSD represents a shift from hit/run tactics toward more securing plant tactics. I am not sure what Thrawn's end goal was, but if he had an ISSD, he would be able to capture key planets such Kuat or other military assets.
I don’t think Thrawn would’ve used a super Star destroyer. Thrawn was a practical person, he believed in not waisting resources. If he was going to have his own flagship he porbablg would’ve used a Revenge class Star destroyer since it was half the size of the super star destroyer but it did have almost the same amount of fire power but it didn’t cost as many credits compared to the super star destroyer.
Honestly; he would have used it as a mobile command unit a supply ship. maybe even a mobile cloning facility. You are very right in the fact that it takes a massive amount of resources it is slow and it didn't fit his needs the beginning of the of the campaign. It would have been his home one
I have been enjoying your videos since I started watching a month ago. Keep up the good work.
personally i think the loss of all the higher ups of the nr that were at bilbringi + loss of ships would put pelleon in a fantastic position to take on the nr
I think you're overlooking the thing that made Thrawn such an effective Star Wars villain following the Original Trilogy, which is that he was very much "Not Tarkin". In fact with the prequel / Clone War / Imperial Expansion "history" we have now, "Not Tarkin" is about the best description of Thrawn. He not only had his own ideas about warfare based around using tactics to use his enemy's strengths and weaknesses against them, but he was openly disdainful of the Tarkin Doctrine and the "bigger is better" approach taken by the emperor. Remember that he was exiled from the Empire's inner circle for openly questioning Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader over the Death Star. He says to Palleon that the Death Star and the SSD were a foolish concentration of so much of the Empire's resources in a single place for the rebels to take out in a single action and were a large part of why the Empire lost at Endor.
Now, would he make a good use of a Super Star Destroyer? Certainly. Would it be in battle in a Tarkin style approach of "shock and awe"? Absolutely not. It would be a psychological weapon, bait in a trap to lure a Republic fleet, or something used to keep his opponents second-guessing about "when is this thing going to show up" instead of focusing on what Thrawn was really doing. He doesn't even need to crew it properly to do that.
Thrawn's overall military strategy was based around small combined arms squadron cohesion and strategic flexibility... if that sounds like a Sci-Fi version of the Roman Empire's military at its height there's a good reason for that. In the later battles he deployed multiple combined ship type squadrons such as a single Star Destroyer with 4 Katana Fleet Dreadnaughts and relied upon C'Baoth's battle meditation to coordinate his forces. Same deal earlier on when he used squadrons of a single Star Destroyer with several frigates and other lighter ships. A Super Star Destroyer doesn't fit into that kind of deployment any more than a war elephant would have fit into the Roman army's legion deployments.
Now you should do a video about what would happen if thrawn wasn't assassinated.
"What if Thrawn threw some random imperials under the bus for sabotaging the Honoghr restoration, or just never recruited the Nohgri to begin with?"
I think you've got it. He would only dist it off for a special attack or as a decoy but would never heavily rely on it for use.
a SSD would be like Bismarck. the idea that a battleship is prowling would cause panic in the republic merchant fleet.
Here's a potential video "what if the first order had Thrawn?" While I know somethings wouldn't change I'm interested in what Thrawn's thoughts and how he would've used the first order's assets specifically the Supremacy on one hand I know he doesn't like large targets but the Supremacy was a effectively a mobile city state capable of large scale production and repairing of Star Destroyers something that I think he would appreciate.
I imagine Thrawn would have used a SSD in ways it wasn’t imagined. (Just think what an ssd could do in a hit in fade where it just jumped in to a spot where it didn’t need to move any more, and pummeling a planet or a station, then jumping out well before enforcements that were any danger to it arrived.) Super weapons weren’t his thing though. Executor was pretty darn close to that.
If thrown had a SSD it would’ve been game over. As an example, the battle of Bilbringi would’ve ensured a terrible defeat for the NR, and he was the type of strategist to never let the NR know about it until they COMMITTED to a fight like that, reveal it there, and decimate the entire fleet sent. Assuming he wasn’t killed at Bilbringi, which was a terrible way to end the story arc anyway.
Edit: I wrote this before the part of your video where you talked about Bilbringi. We’re on the same page.
He lose because he was betrayed