It’s about time. I could never understand why people who are so negative about the gospel are allowed to work at BYU. I am a full tithe payer and I know that tithing is given to BYU. Since my money is spent on BYU I expect it to be a school where testimonies are strengthened not torn down. How is this even happening. Why are these people even hired? Are the brethren too polite to let them go. I wish they would take control and turn it back into a church run school.
A couple things here: 1) if a professor posts a rainbow flag at their office or wears a pin to let queer students know they are a safe space, how does that constitute activism? The professor has not actually voiced any opposition toward the Church. 2) You have stated opinions on what is done with your tithing. Do you support the voices of those who wish to see their donations used to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, as Christ directed? Look, we all have to balance competing priorities just like Adam and Eve.
@@aBrewster29 1. The “safe space” is repentance, not affirmation. Else there are hundreds of other universities to attend. 2. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s insane to expect a church to pay for the promotion of doctrines and practices it considers sinful.
@@aBrewster291 is that really all it signifies? 2 the church already does that with tithing--among other things, and individuals can also designate additional donations to various efforts along those lines.
We need to build our spiritual foundation not on sand and but on the rock of Christ. Other Members may say offensive ideas, but should not drive us from the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
@@markommen5967it doesn’t drive people from Christ, it drives people out of a “church” the word church means community, Christ is not a church. A church is not divinity. The good news of his gospel IS NOT A Church.
At 45:10 he says there are matters where you can say the brethren are wrong but then he contradicts himself where he says there are other matters where they are not wrong. The problem is who gets to decide what matters are they right on and what matters are they wrong on. It is entirely subjective. Some might disagree with the Church on same sex issues, some might disagree with the Church on tithing, some might even go so far as to disagree with the prophet on masks and vaccines. Where does one draw the line or where should one draw the line. This whole thing is a slippery slope. You either accept everything the prophets says as gospel or you don't, you are either a saint or an apostate. Hansen plays a slippery game, he is a cafeteria Mormon just like the rest of them. He doesn't want to change the Church he just wants to ignore the Church when it is convenient.
Would Peggy Fletcher be saying anything if BYU released a bunch of white supremacists? Uhhh... I'm 100% certain she _WOULD_ have something to say about that Jacob.
@jacobmayberry1126 I still stand by my previous. Yes. Peggy Fletcher would be "complaining" (Jacob's word) about BYU, being surprised by an announcement of having had white supremacists (which was a church doctrine, enforced from highest leadership, same as lgbtq is enforced today), at its premiere Seminary. The question of course would be, why did it take till 2025 for a group like that to be identified and fired? It would _ABSOLUTELY_ be condemnable! Why did it hire them in the first place? By the way, BYU's very name exudes this white supremacy doctrine still today! If the church wants to distance from that false white supremacy doctrine, they need to change it to Spencer W Kimball Seminary. FWIW, I actually have a directly relevant family anecdote with this Jacob analogy. My aunt left BYU, and Utah, married a black man a few years later, will never return to the church, and has never come anywhere near the perimeter of the state since. All because of the Church's white supremacist doctrine being taught and enforced, in the 60's, at BYU. My aunt was a better prophet than all those that came between Joseph and S.W. Kimball. She saw perfectly around that corner when they couldn't. She didn't blindly put her trust in the leadership. She looked the "confusion" in the eyes and knew better than they did. Let me expand Jacob's own "complaining" to its fullest extent. What about the geology professors who aren't teaching the world is less than 7k years, per D&C 77:6? Does Jacob care that the BYU geology dept isn't teaching canonized doctrine? Does he only care that lgbtq are properly trampled and trodden in the Humanities dept, in what he perceives as doctrine? How does Jacob define doctrine? Oaks says it's only doctrine if all 15 have taught it. Have all 15 taught that lgbtq have no place in the Church or its academic discussions? It might surprise you, but I actually would argue they all have taught that doctrine, if only by their silence, in the face of one or two who have said it's so. I think it's despicable to think Christ would want his one true church to act out against the downtrodden and treat them without compassion and full inclusion. This is what Jacob does. He is not a believer in Christ and his teachings. Jacob believes in worshipping men. It's a church admitted fact that past prophets have taught wrong doctrine. They claim they're only speaking as men when they do. Yet Jacob and his ilk will unquestioningly worship their prophetic names as they walk off a cliff for them, just to avoid the "confusion". Such good enlisted soldiers.
@@jacobmayberry1126 I think the point that _Brigham_ _Young_ University, who's very name embodies the idea of whites get their church privileges first, firing a group of professors actively holding these beliefs, in 2025, is a bad analogy at best, but going over your own head at worst. It would be a shocking enough story that Peggy would absolutely be writing about it "negatively" and rightfully so.
38:50 "if you were honest from the start you probably wouldn't have been hired at BYU anyways" People who once beleived often times change their beliefs later in life. It is very normal.
What about faculty who are true believers but their spouse stops going to church, or their child becomes an LGBTQ activist? Should believers be fired because someone close to them decides they no longer want to go to church, or even become public critics of the church? It's one thing to insist that employees believe and fully support the church and it's doctrines. But where is the line when it comes to people who are close to them? Is it necessary to get a divorce or disown your kids if they stop believing or criticize the church?
@@kristinrichmond8185let me remind you that not that long ago children of gay parents couldn’t get baptized until they left home and disowned their parents.
@@daveduncan2748 well they were saying that the spouse should be in the interview, what if the spouse doesn’t believe the bishop has any authority over them and don’t want to attend? That’s a valid concern, in fact not that long ago children of lgbt parents had to disowned their parents lifestyle in order to get baptized at 18. Did you forget that?
Jacob shows his true colors at 55:20. If the leadership were to come out with a position that disagrees with his dogma, he would become an activist against them. He can try and hide behind the church and it's leadership, but at the end of the day, he is right and everyone who disagrees with him is apostate. 40 years ago he would have been arguing for the biblical literacy of the priesthood ban and doubling down on the brethren's position. and now he says it is clearly wrong and has no biblical justification
As a Catholic (God had us give the world the Bible), I would hasten to emphasize “biblical justification” while never required for a Dogma - is - on its own terms - what philosophically and epistemologically sound (again- See Catholic Church) people would describe as a “self-defeater” (were it not it would be circular, and the premise is wholly circular) - but - if we were to grant it for the sake of silliness - in the absence of the Magisterium that gets us nowhere. It’s like saying “my body my choice” when the debate is about the preborn human child’s body and whether or not it should be legal to slaughter that child in cold blood. That said - yes - Jacob is necessarily wrong because Jesus was not and never could. Habemus PAPAM!
Also - Jacob is totally right that BYU should be free to fire whoever it wants. Apparently unbeknownst to him, Catholic higher edu (the inventor thereof and largest provider 1200 centuries running) is today riddled with brain-rot marxists but OF COURSE WE HAVE NEVER AND WOULD NEVER - and - key key key (pun intended) would NEVER NEED to keep a lid on free and adversarial inquiry. As I often say: poke around on google for a month and try to debunk the Virgin of Guadalupe. PLEASE. Go for it. See what the atheists and former atheists say. And then reply if you’d like me to help connect with a parish and get you into RCIA - where you’ll have 6-18 months to study and discern - those who have conquered and reconquered and are reconquering the world with the Godman’s Writ don’t need baseball baptisms nor new narratives. The Glowing Bride and Beaming Mother of Hod reflect their Beloved Groom. Come as you are to change!
Yup. He justifies current criticism against the church via conspiracy theories about "middle management" hijacking it but at the end of the day he is just fighting tooth and nail to preserve a version of the church that the own institution rejects and doesn't share his vision for.
If the brethren came out and said that they support transgenderism and are reinstating polygamy and will be sealing gay couples in the temple, will you sustain that or will you be standing with Jacob? I know that will never happen and recognize the Lord will not allow that to happen but what Jacob is saying is correct.
What you call "his dogma," I would call his testimony of the doctrine of Christ as it relates to gender and such. I would say that, in essence, he simply maintains that the concepts set forth in the family proclamation are of Christ and are immutable, even if (in the hypothetical) a future First Presidency should stray from them. His position doesn't really bother me, even if I would rather wait to cross such a bridge until after arriving at it. That said, I consider gender transition (especially as foisted on impressionable minors) in a completely different category from "same-sex marriage." Once upon a time, I was 100% dead set against it. However, at my office building I happened to have a gay subtenant in those days. He had to flat-out tell me he was gay because otherwise I never would have guessed. Anyway, he made this point: "We are going to love each other and sleep with each other because that's just how we are; we are simply not attracted to women. Do you want us to operate as part of a committed, exclusive, long-term relationship, or would you prefer that we run around pursuing random hookups with dozens of partners as if there were no tomorrow?" I had to acknowledge that, in terms of overall societal welfare, it might be better for the law to encourage marriage among gay people, if for no other reasons than as a means of discouraging the promiscuity that was characteristic of that community in the early 1980s. If the Church were to let men in a "legal and lawful" union enjoy activity in their ward programs, it would not destroy my testimony. After all, participants in heterosexual marriages that have not been "solemnized" in the temple are not barred from a rather full measure of activity. This is not the same thing as advocating for the Church to recognize same-sex relationships as on a par with "celestial marriage," as the eschatological implications of such a shift would be significant.
I went through the Marriott School and never would’ve guessed that something as mundane as accounting could come into controversy with Church doctrine. Yet here we are after the SEC penalties over the Church’s financial reporting misconduct. People should be aware that not one accounting/finance professor has spoken up in defense of the Church’s actions. Not one. That says a lot. No science is safe from the extremes of the pharisaical orthodoxy, limited paradigm being foisted upon students, faculty, and admins at BYU.
@ you’re entitled to your views, but what are your qualifications to make such an argument, and more importantly, what is the rationale behind your assertion? Clearly the SEC disagrees with you, given the Cease and Desist Order and fines.
@ronmonks6325 Are you high? There was absolutely a violation of SEC requirements. The Church tried to hide the extent of its assets and market operations. They admitted that they were dishonest and violated reporting requirements (not an accounting error, an intentional violation from the first presidency). It is not being defended by the accounting department, because it is not defensible. If it was defensible, they would have tried to defend and not paid the fine and worst of all not admitted that they intentionally violated SEC rules.
@ one more detail you should be informed of, the SEC matter didn’t come to light via disgruntled whistleblower-that is the IRS investigation. The SEC entered the picture upon discovery of shared IP addresses across the shell companies. And I’ll point out again for you, if a defense can be mounted, why haven’t the BYU professors spoken up? Pres Holland has society called them to action, “to handle both trowel and musket.” Are you defending the actions of the Church or the institution despite its actions? The scriptures warn very clearly not to call evil good and good evil.
A number of factors could play into this, the primary one that comes to mind is job availability. In education institutions, there is often multiple qualified applicants, but only one candidate could be hired. If you're being purged from BYU, then you are part of a population that has one less potential employer and part of an increase in the number of potentially qualified candidates.
I’m glad that Jacob was able to voice his views. You are able to clearly see that Jacob wants a small church. He is the kind of member that the church will be left with in the next 10 years. It will be a church full of Jacob Hansen look alikes. Good luck
Better to to be small and within the laws of God than big and not. Broad is the way that leads to damnation as the scriptures say.If the goal is numbers and not being faithful to Christ, then the Church has little value.
If it means the doctrine of the Family Proclamation creates a “small church”, then so be it. King Solomon imported people and doctrines that were contrary to the Lord and the result was a scattering of the tribes of Israel. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. Unfortunately, we see the woke cultism taking hold in parts of the church and supplanting core doctrine.
I was fine with some of the BYU teachers actively and publicly criticizing the black priesthood ban in the 1970’s. Taking the moral high ground takes courage.
Different than LGBTQ. Priesthood ban had long established division and promise that it would eventually be removed. The questions were when, how, and the reasoning for the ban in the first place. LGBTQ, at least the way most of the world handles it, is directly in opposition to God’s law of marriage. It also has no scriptural precedence in support of it. Public criticism about a specific policy is different than criticism of the brethren as oracles of God or of a core doctrinal in and of itself.
Yep. And he also said he'd accept the consequences, including excommunication. That's the difference. The progressives at BYU are having a meltdown and are claiming to be mistreated instead of nobly accepting the consequences of their activism.
Jacob so perfectly represents the absolute worst parts of LDS culture. Convinced of his own twisted logic, hostile to those who hold different views, and attempting to police the thoughts of others. His authoritarian instincts are breathtaking.
The Church is an authoritarian institution, Blow. We have no Episcopal synod or Southern Baptist Convention. You either accept that our leaders receive revelation from God or you don't. And by the by, I'd love to hear you call out Jacob's twisted logic. We'd have something to discuss, at least.
Jacob’s hypocrisy is absolutely *staggering* (yet also par for the course). He (and the luminaries he regularly appears with at Ward Radio) regularly and have repeatedly criticized the Church and the decision of leaders. It’s also really crazy to hear him say such intense things about the LGBT community like it isn’t the law of the land. What he’s acting like is so “woke” are grown consenting adults exercising their constitutional rights. Or does he only believe in the parts of the constitution he wants? He demonstrates such a deficient understanding of why we even have a country in the first place, he should ask that Catholic high school for a refund. He also constantly equates the Church with Christ. Christ (who I don’t even believe in but still believe this is a principle worth standing for) said that all men know we are His by how we treat others. Jacob has been an absolute jerk online (and has even admitted it). He’s less temple worthy-in my view according to these words of Christ-than any of the professors he’s giddy to see purged. “I follow Christ”-no, Jacob, you follow people who have convinced you they speak for Christ. Christ himself said literally **nothing** on the topic. His response to the race question was also such a dishonest dodge (just like you dodged our Book of Mormon debate you already accepted, Jacob). I also like how he just ignores facts that are inconvenient to his position (like professors not being rehired because of **their spouses** no longer being active).
👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 Thank you! Jacob comes across as smarmy and self righteous. Congratulations on being a perfect fit for the church! That must feel really nice for you Jacob 🙄
Royal Skousen from BYU in his CV and in an email to me said he felt the facsimiles should be dropped from the Book of Abraham and the contents be accepted as given by revelation. (the catalyst theory). The other scholar from BYU told me he accepted the multiple authorship of the Book of Isaiah. This would present problems for the Book of Mormon.
Why? Nothing in the Book of Mormon contradicts multiple authorship of Isaiah. Just as long as the chapters present in the Book of Mormon were available to Lehi, it doesn't matter how many people contributed. The problematic deutro chapters are not found in the Book of Mormon. If those chapters were inserted after Lehi left Jerusalem, that is not a problem.
@@MaryMartinez-mc9qu The same problem with Smith's IV where Isaiah 29 has extra verses which do not appear in the Great Isaiah Scroll and in Matthew in the resurrection story he has 2 angels sitting on the rock.
@MaryMartinez-mc9qu Why do you think that? Have you even looked at the Book of Mormon? None of the Book of Mormon chapters include any of the post exilic content. While some of the chapters are from afterwards, that only matters if Isaiah chapter order is chronological. Many non LDS experts think deutero Isaiah was an insert, not just added at the end, if so that is not a problem for the Book of Mormon. What specific verses in the Book of Mormon do you find problematic?
@MormonBookReviews great job calling Jacob out and making him aware of the insensitive use of “people who experience same sex attraction”. I noticed that he said something like out of respect for you and just for you he would rephrase his wording. Unfortunately, that indicates to me he will continue using such insensitive phrasing on his who channel and in other situations.
Language is tough. How would you refer to someone who identifies as gay or lesbian? The church leaders still have a connotation of same sex attraction being a temptation or experience of this life and not a characteristic that changes how an individual should behave.
I am not a member of the LDS church anymore but since BYU is a private religious institution I do not understand why anyone that is not active LDS would want to teach there. And because it is a private religious University I believe it has the right to set whatever standards they want for the kids and the employees. Whenever any of my active LDS grandkids don't want to go to BYU I am happy. The honor code is ridiculous for young college age people and at least my grandkids realize that instead of going and trying to break all the rules they can. 😂 They are good kids but definitely not perfect. What kid really is. 😂 College is a time to decide who you really are without someone else pushing their personality onto you. God created us all differently with different talents and creativity. And I do believe heaven will be the same. 🤗 God is NOT a boring God. Just look at the diversity He put into His creation of this world and the people He put on it. ❤
"I do not understand why anyone that is not active LDS would want to teach there." Most professors start there as active LDS members, but as humans with the capacity to think critically and to change their positions when convinced some become nuanced members or even disagree with people like Jacob. Your sentiment in this line reminds me of how some students realize they are not heterosexual while attending BYU and then are asked by people online, "Why did you apply to BYU if you were gay?"
Part of the problem is that stepping into positions such as local Church leadership or teaching at BYU is where you see how the sausage gets made, and you become aware of instances where certain Church values are disregarded in favor of others-and not in a white lie, “does this dress make my butt look big” sort of way. So 1) Church doctrine is actually more accommodating than the narrow paradigm being enforced, and 2) So-called activists should have an avenue to raise these concerns where they see Church values being tossed aside by the dominant powers.
@ do you know exactly what his standards are for employment? And for the spouse of the employee that does not even work for one of the religious institutions?
hmm, maybe just like how the Law of Moses was set aside by the gospel in the New Testament? Times, circumstances, and human understanding evolve to higher or refined ideas, in the context of revelation. You seem to suggest a stagnant status quo is the ideal.
@ When you’re taught that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, then nothing should change. Right should be right and wrong should be wrong. There are so many “doctrines” that the LDS church has disavowed and now says they were wrong about. So how do we know that what is currently being taught won’t be disavowed in the future? We don’t, which proves that the “prophets” don’t communicate with God. They’re too swayed by current society.
19:36 show me a workplace where 50% of employees AREN'T looking for other employment or early retirement and I'll show you a workplace that ISN'T the norm
The moment BYU enacted and enforced its Honor Policy using the same tactics as the Stasi (the East German Secret Police) it became a micro-police state.
@@DegaVertigo When was that? I was at BYU for 8 years and my father in law was on the faculty for 20+ years, but neither he nor I ever experienced any of this "police state" thing. The Stasi regularly employed torture as an interrogation tool and shot people who tried to defect. I don't imagine that you were really accusing BYU of acting in that fashion, but if BYU did so, where is the report?
@ The main feature of the Stasi wasn’t merely torture, but to silence dissident speech. They could disappear people and that was a more effective tool to silence that speech than torture-which was used primarily as an interrogation method. The most ubiquitous method of silencing speech employed by the Stasi was their use of a network of informants. The average citizen would never know if their neighbor was an informant, and the mere suspicion that someone could be one could suppress dissent. While there is a clear difference in the scope of the Stasi’s impact when compared to the BYU Honor Code Office, the parallels in their tactics are too great to gloss over, imo. In the 1970s, BYU employed people to out homosexuals to the BYU Honor Cord Office. They would then be blackmailed into vomit/electroshock therapy under threat of immediate expulsion and denial of college transcripts-meaning the student would never be able to legitimately attend another college or university. Vomit/electroshock therapy for the conversion of sexuality was and is torture, even though at the time some professionals thought it was appropriate. For those who knew a BYU student was gay and then no longer saw that student at school, there was a clear threat of disproportionate consequences for being outed. They had been expelled for not keeping their secret and any hope of a college degree had been denied them. It silenced what would have been viewed as, and still is treated by BYU as, dissent. The average BYU student would not know the reason a given student stopped attending. The socially imposed shame of homosexuality would also contribute to limited social network of those who would know the truth. Famously, a BYU Valedictorian had after securing his transcripts with his posted degree, came out in a public speech. His speech was treated as dissident speech against BYU, by Elder Holland. So while neither you nor your father witnessed this, it still happened to other people. The fact you were both unaware at the time is a testament to the effectiveness of the suppressive tactics. ua-cam.com/video/ZGV4aeSJyRM/v-deo.htmlsi=tpAwtd4E0vMnCrJu ua-cam.com/video/biGQs20JhW0/v-deo.htmlsi=cOe2Pmqhh5sg-DBR ua-cam.com/users/livewV_zeLJDTpk?si=HHbG1RtQpy58s1wN There was also a recorded reunion of some of the survivors of this program of torture that was once posted to YT, but I can’t seem to find it publicly listed anymore. They went into more detail about the lives of those who were targeted.
@@Comm.DavidPorter The main feature of the Stasi wasn’t merely torture, but to silence dissident speech. They could disappear people and that was a more effective tool to silence that speech than torture-which was used primarily as an interrogation method. The most ubiquitous method of silencing speech employed by the Stasi was their use of a network of informants. The average citizen would never know if their neighbor was an informant, and the mere suspicion that someone could be one could suppress dissent. While there is a clear difference in the scope of the Stasi’s impact when compared to the BYU Honor Code Office, the parallels in their tactics are too great to gloss over, imo. In the 1970s, BYU employed people to out homosexuals to the BYU Honor Cord Office. They would then be blackmailed into vomit/electroshock therapy under threat of immediate expulsion and denial of college transcripts-meaning the student would never be able to legitimately attend another college or university. Vomit/electroshock therapy for the conversion of sexuality was and is torture, even though at the time some professionals thought it was appropriate. For those who knew a BYU student was gay and then no longer saw that student at school, there was a clear threat of disproportionate consequences for being outed. They had been expelled for not keeping their secret and any hope of a college degree had been denied them. It silenced what would have been viewed as, and still is treated by BYU as, dissent. The average BYU student would not know the reason a given student stopped attending. The socially imposed shame of homosexuality would also contribute to limited social network of those who would know the truth. Famously, a BYU Valedictorian had after securing his transcripts with his posted degree, came out in a public speech. His speech was treated as dissident speech against BYU, by Elder Holland. So while neither you nor your father witnessed this, it still happened to other people. The fact you were both unaware at the time is a testament to the effectiveness of the suppressive tactics. There was also a recorded reunion of some of the survivors of this program of torture that was once posted to YT, but I can’t seem to find it publicly listed anymore. They went into more detail about the lives of those who were targeted.
My issue is Jacob acts like the brethren are so clear with how they feel about the LGBTQ community and it is the main doctrine of the church like the Eucharist is to Catholics. These people are not against the core doctrine of the church, but against the church’s policies that have changed in the past 30 years. They aren’t against Jesus or the atonement. People had the same arguments 45 plus years ago about racism and women’s rights. We may find the disavow these teachings in the next 30 years.
Yes, that is true. But what they can't control are the consequences. They could lose all credibility in the academic world making degrees from BYU worthless. That would greatly affect their mission of enter to learn, go forth to serve.
@@ChrisRobison The only “consequences” a religious school should be concerned about are the ones coming from God. That seems to be the theme running throughout scripture.
This comment is correct. It is bad for a university to create a culture of control and fear which is what is happening. This is bad for learning. This is bad for professors. This is bad for students. Jacob Hansen's claims that professors are running wild doesn't ring true to me. I just haven't seen evidence of it.
18:55 this I think is the heart of the issue, is that it’s not something that is meant to be against LGBTQ identifying persons. Rather, it’s against a narrative and a way of looking at same-sex attraction that a lot of people feel is based in Marxism and tribalism.
It could also be there are many lgbtq people who vote conservative and see that ignorance causes the fearful to paint these lifestyles with ugly nicknames.
Are you seriously saying ALL same sex attraction comes from…MARXISM???😳. This is very disturbing and tells the story why members of the LGBT community have such a difficult time with LDS culture…it COMPLETELY takes away their own identity and individuality and breaks it down to a political agenda. WOW, how do you not see this! But I know…you still LOVE them SO much! 🤢🤮
Conservative professors across the country are scared to loose their job because 90% of professors are liberals. Welcome to the world we’ve been dealing with for along time
I'm a BYU graduate and a witness to plenty of shady shiz that happened with BYU administration and the power they held over employees regarding their employment. Jacob Hansen is exactly the type of self-righteous prick who professes to be a good Christian, but cannot see just how hypocritical he is and the damage he does with his comments. Great job by Steve to allow Jacob to spew a bunch of BS and then politely disagree with his ridiculous positions. I hope Jacob lives long enough to see the Church change it's position on things he believes will never change and that he becomes excommunicated out as he claims he would be good with. I think he has no idea just how difficult it would really be to face excommunication. His cavalier attitude at the 55:00 min. mark is so pathetic. Jacob is a zealot and a fool. Jacob and his public persona digust me. His positions and the people who agree with him continue to reinforce my decision to drop out of activity within the LDS church. I do believe there are plenty of good people who are active LDS and they form a tight community that feels wonderful to participate if you can conform to it. If you do not conform to LDS culture and dogma, there is no place for you. Getting out of the Church isn't an easy thing to do and the same thing can be said for BYU. Professionals required to leave BYU isn't as simple as Jacob claims it to be based on the "honesty" of their beliefs or circumstances. It's not so black and white. Jacob struggles with nuance and that will ultimately bite him in the butt someday. I agree with Steve that BYU will lose good people and that it will weaken the university in the long run. Great podcast. It's nice to see you give so much time to Jacob to allow him so many opportunities to display his self righteous perspectives. God only knows what the truth is with respect to same sex attraction and why it exists. Jacob only wishes he could know God's purpose and design on the matter.
Integrity conversation at 37 minutes: "If they would have been honest from the start, they probably never would have been hired"... Because perspectives never change... And the church has never changed their perspectives... Or dare I say doctrines." The church should not be putting people in the position where their livelihood depends on their integrity about social issues when the church hasn't even figured out their actual stance. If the church is going to leave it up to the bishops to decide someone's ability to provide for themselves and their family, there should be much more clear guidance about what is disqualifying. Jacob talks like the church is clear with their stances and like they've been consistent. The fact of the matter is, this couldn't be farther from the Truth. The current actions reflect so perfectly What has happened multiple times in the past- equal rights, black rights, those trying to get the church to be more honest about their history. Quite ironic and hypocritical that a church with the history and the ongoing issues with integrity requires such strict integrity that would cost someone their livelihood when the two are at odds and they are trying to be authentic with themselves and others. It will be interesting to see if Jacob is able to hold himself to such high standards of integrity when the church inevitably continues to change their social stances, considering the statements he has made in the past that he would not be able to stay in the church if they change certain teachings.😮
I don't agree with Jacob. I think having academic diversity is good for an organization (especially a religious one) and having folks fear for their jobs just for supporting their gay family members and friends is a tragedy. It's unamerican. And it feeds into this idea of us vs them which is slowly killing our country. Best person should get the job at BYU and this new policy will get us trash compared to where we were. Worst of all Utah will pass us in ranking and I simply can't abide that. Go Cougs! But ffs fire Gilbert and any other culture warriors and lets get back to focusing on giving our kids the best education the church can provide without needing to grasp on to our dogmatic pearls.
So, if I understand, Jacob isn’t opposed to activist professors at byu so long as their activism promotes the lds church position, even if that position runs contrary to the consensus in their respective fields. Of course, these conversations, and even the tribune article, seem to remain in the theoretical realm. Steven is the only one I’ve heard so far who is referring to actual people.
@ sure, to a point. LDS leadership, though, from the pulpit, teach that gender is ordained of God. Anthropologists would be hard pressed to support such a stance since their field distinguishes between sex, which is biological, and gender, which is culturally determined/expected behavior. Anthropological work that doesn’t make this distinction would not be taken seriously, and would be seen as archaic in that field. But teaching, as a good anthropologist would, that gender is socially determined, would put an anthropologist in direct conflict with teachings of church authorities. Now, it seems to me that church authorities use gender and sex interchangeably, probably because they don’t work or study in a field that considers and distinguishes these. At any rate, we’re talking hypotheticals. This seems to mostly be a first step on a slippery slope discussion. Unless I’m mistaken, the article and reactions to it haven’t cited a specific instance. Historically, though, firebrands have enforced and tried to enforce similar policies at byu. Wilkinson is probably the best known. It will depend on how it is implemented. In principle, though, I think it’s at least reactionary and betrays something of the cross purposes in LDS culture, the desire to be accepted by and apart from wider society.
The context that you miss, Steven, And why we shouldn't have total free expression of all ideas at BYU, is that BYU is funded with tithing dollars. Firing someone for BYU for teaching something that goes against the core doctrines of the church doesn't silence that person, it just stops the church from subsidizing that person's teachings with our tithing dollars. People are always free to express all of their ideas using their own resources. But when the teaching of your ideas is paid for by the sacrifice of a large group of people, you have to do so in line with the beliefs and interests of those people. BYU is a private institution, not a public one. No one is required to work at BYU. But if you do want to have your salary paid by BYU, you have to stay within certain bounds of things that align with the membership and leadership of the church.
40:48 the issue is that progressives have now adopted Marxism as part of their principals, and Marxism includes activism. Liberal is not a problem for the Church. It is Marxism.
On Notre Dame, I suggest listening to Dr. E. Michael Jones. He was fired as a professor from Notre Dame in the 70's for opposing abortion, because of that, he started a magazine to discover what happened to the culture of Catholic universities. Also, Steve doesn't understand Mormonism. His worldview is one of radical individualism, while Jacob, and faithful LDS worldview is about the collective well-being of the Saint's.
@@zionmama150 " look up Karl Marx" Translation: I don't know! I just throw it around as an insult at people who have a different perspective than me. Or, assuming you are a bright and intelligent individual, you can sum up what Marxism is for me. I would be interested to see what you undertsand Marxism to be.
As a believing member, thinking I am in line with church authorized teaching, I disagree with a lot of Jacob’s comments here. I love some of his theological content but very much dislike his political and social ideology tangents.
You must be a troll, because everything that Jacob has said has been in supported of the Church's position on marriage, gender, and the family. He clarified at the beginning of the video that he's not looking at this issue from a political framework. BYU is allowed to operate as a Church-owned organization and protect itself from ideologies that would say for example that a man can become a woman. What is more ideological than that?! The Church leaders and the leaders at BYU are doing the right thing here, and that is to protect our spaces and maintain what you could call our "Garden of Eden." If you don't like it or if you want to change it, get the heck out of here man!
I love his political tangents, the reality is the left is antagonistic to church teachings. Harold B Lee even said in General Conference that a liberal member was one with a week testimony.
On the contrary. Jacob's hubris is about to explode through the top of his cap. My guess is that he'll eventually leave the man-made church in the name of ultraconservatism and so-called revelation beyond his so-called stewardship.
I can’t help but think back to win those people who read knew that the Bible had nothing to do with Black’s not having the priesthood. I’ve read letter letters that sound just like this conversation. Also, Jacob loves to say that other people are framing the issues wrongly whenever they frame them in ways that don’t make his argument look good.
@ then you have the same worldview as Jacob. That’s fine but he can’t get around the fact he’s acting like the racists acted when blacks were allowed into the Y or polygamy was banned in the church. Very similar conversations and he’s being hysterical and will one day be a fundamentalist.
@@Sayheybrother8I don’t disagree that how we discuss topics matter, but there is a big difference between current ideologies on lgbtq and the priesthood ban. There is a lot more foundational footing for views that the doctrinal of the family will never change in a direction towards same sex marriages than there was for the priesthood ban never being removed.
I believe Jacob should approach some of these topics with a more compassionate tone, but he also is coming from a view of trying to stay loyal to Gods revealed word and he has seen accounts of people leaving the church because of activist approaches against the church being taught to them by byu professors.
22:46 Yeah, I don’t think I would agree with his use of how the restoration occurred, as if to say that restriction goes against it. Even the word alone suggests bringing something back to how it’s supposed to be, not just having total freedom to make the church how you think it should be. In fact I think that argument actually goes against the exact point he was trying to make. Frankly, kinda a flop how he was trying to use our own history against us😂
Ok. To start this position you need to be available from said time to said time. Ok. I’ll take it. 2 years later. I need you to change these requirements as they don’t work for me. Umm. Ok. You’re going to have to resign. We can’t do that for this position. Hmmm??
I had several non Latter-day Saint professors in my time at BYU. The expectation is that they don’t promote ideas contrary to the church in the classroom, but individually, they can believe whatever they’d like
@johnprince5356 so to make sure I understand because I was getting confused as the video went on … if you are LDS, you have to have a temple recommend? But if you aren’t LDS, you can’t be an ex-member and you have to agree not to teach contrary to the church?
Good question Steven about Polygamy. You will not find any information on Jesus being a polygamist. Notice that Abraham and Jacob did not take more wives or combines after their names were changed. Abram did not have enough faith at the time that Sarai would give birth and he took her lead and followed the custom. Jacob was tricked. Just look at the fruits from those relationships. Wars and contentions
So Jacob is saying that all these heterosexual BYU students not following the law of chastity should be kicked out of the university and excommunicated???
Interesting insights. I think Steven concentrated a little too much on anecdotal evidence. And Jacob was a little too dismissive of the fears of the faculty. That being stated I think it is true that if I am going to be dishonest on my temple interview then I don’t have a good reason to feel like I should also be able to say whatever I want without fear of consequences. What large corporation allows their employees to say whatever they want on social media without repercussion? It’s no wonder why there are so many avatars online on all sides of the spectrum that don’t want their identities known
47:00 the issue wasn’t what they were doing. It’s that they were doing it without authorization. That’s why they got excommunicated. they weren’t willing to wait for the timing of the Lord.
Have you noticed the Lord's timing always seems to be delayed until after the activism? Polygamy banned (at least publicly) after the US denied Utah statehood. The temple and priesthood ban rescinded after all the negative press about the church's racist doctrine. Gospel topic essays were released after excommunicating the truthtellers. Church policies on child safety rules were changed after Sam Young was excommunicated for his activism. So, how can you know it's not the church reacting to bad press, vs the Lord just being a little too late to the game over and over and over?
Jacob's idea of teaching every subject from the LDS perspective is fine. However, such an institution would not be accredited and recognized as valid by other institutions. Accredited institutions must adhere to standards of instruction and curriculum. Purely religious instructional institutions do exist; they're called churches. But to be an institution of higher education, they must work with the standards that other institutions put forward as meaning someone has achieved a degree, that their coursework is equivalent in content and approach to other institutions, and, yes, allows for academic freedom. Moreover, there are subjects that simply do not matter to a Latter-Day Saint Perspective. How does one teach a musical instrument according to a LDS perspective? Ballet? To do so is shoehorning in content that truly doesn't belong and will undermine the academic disciplines.
The question is, which LDS perspective? The views supported by LDS scripture and authorities is so much wider than the narrow slice of the pie that zealots like Jacob and Greg go whole hog on. In doing so they discard other values of the Church and are their own twisted version of a cafeteria member.
Unless you’re a BYU professor who simply wishes to post a rainbow flag at your office to let students know you’re a safe person to talk to in an environment otherwise lacking in support. That flag is now falsely interpreted universally as disdain for the Church’s current policy.
Well we know Jacob Hansen would be supporting racial doctrines of the LDS Church up until the last possible second in 1978 because his highest core value seems to be obedience to institutional human authority at all moral costs.
I'm curious. Did the people in this comment section agree with BYU firing Randy Bott and why do they see that as different than the current situation? Both situations involved professors going against the church's current teachings correct?
Jacob-No, Randy Bott at the time did not go against the Church’s current teachings. The race and the priesthood essay wasn’t released until the end of the following year and is the first thing I’m aware of that changed the Church’s position. If you’re aware of something earlier that shows the position had changed before the race and priesthood essay released in December 2013, let me know-but otherwise, you’re wrong on the facts. The funny thing about trying to equate Randy Bott’s situation with this is it helps make one of the points Peggy did. Folks like you and Jacob Hansen act like the Church’s doctrine is crystal clear, but it isn’t. You see, your question implies Randy had gone rogue for teaching abhorrent things that were in a first presidency statement and represented *as doctrine* things that had never been repudiated or rejected until that 2013 essay. I was taught the exact same things Prof. Bott taught in seminary about a decade before that. That was the point, he embarrassed the Church for saying the quiet parts of the racist history out loud. And he wasn’t just fired, he was called on a mission-so he **still** spoke for and represented the Church in some capacity. So do I think it was wrong they fired him? I don’t know about “wrong” but it was extremely unfair to the man who was simply teaching doctrine (as they represented it as such) the prophets and apostles had taught and had yet to disavow. Not defending his abhorrent beliefs at the time, but recognizing he didn’t come up with them himself. It was the Mormonism he was raised in that had never been disavowed.
@@KolbyReddish I'll take the correction on my facts of the timeline on that one, but Jacob's argument was if there was professor like Randy Bott NOW post gospel topics essay. So while your point against me is valid, your point against Jacob is not because such a professor would be going against current church teachings.
@@jacobmayberry1126 my point isn’t valid against Jacob’s completely imagined and invented factual scenario that doesn’t exist? Why would I need to rebut Jacob’s imagination?
I’ll speak to this one. I took a class from Professor Bott in 2001 and absolutely loved it. He is such a kind, energetic person. He did offer that same “blacks and the car keys” example and did so with several African American students from the football team sitting across the front row of the lecture hall. It was incredibly uncomfortable, and we didn’t even know much of anything about the ban back then. So, yes, I lament the fact that the way the Church chose to change without changing allowed a good man like Randy Bott to persist in a false viewpoint for such a long time without internal correction. I absolutely disagree with his removal from teaching without the Church acknowledging its role in promoting such views early on and then allowing them to persist. That said, I know there are views who oppose the purge and celebrated Bott’s removal. Jacob, BYU doesn’t need people promoting a tug of war. BYU needs people who can approach the gospel with an open mind and a will to use and develop the kind of discernment Christ showed in dealing with the Pharisees. The gospel is much more expansive than the narrow views being foisted at BYU right now.
Steven, your trying to defend the ongoing change at BYU by the Church owned institution is a losing proposition. Your credibility is compromised by trying to tell church leadership / God what he can do with his school. You are better than that as truth is truth. Not some other interpretation is truth. Not cool at all. I usually like your stance but kicking against church teachings is unbecoming.
@@jimoray3 I have no desire to tell any Church how to conduct it's affairs. I was pushing back on Jacob to challenge him so people could better understand his position. I was recently a guest on a channel that is very critical of Jacob and I defended him and Jacob was appreciative of my effort.
@ , your posture seem to defend the opposite but I’ll take your word for it as I’ve always backed you except in this instance and possibly giving platform to Michelle Brady Stone without true rebuttal from alternative views like Brian Hales. I just don’t want you turning into a Mormon Stories 2
Steven, you sound like a child with some of these questions. I get that your lefty friends are nervous. They'll find new jobs. U of Utah is always hiring.
Steven, your handling of this chat with Jacob was beyond admirable.
He has more patients and tolerance than I can muster.
It’s about time. I could never understand why people who are so negative about the gospel are allowed to work at BYU. I am a full tithe payer and I know that tithing is given to BYU. Since my money is spent on BYU I expect it to be a school where testimonies are strengthened not torn down. How is this even happening. Why are these people even hired? Are the brethren too polite to let them go. I wish they would take control and turn it back into a church run school.
A couple things here:
1) if a professor posts a rainbow flag at their office or wears a pin to let queer students know they are a safe space, how does that constitute activism? The professor has not actually voiced any opposition toward the Church.
2) You have stated opinions on what is done with your tithing. Do you support the voices of those who wish to see their donations used to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, as Christ directed?
Look, we all have to balance competing priorities just like Adam and Eve.
@@aBrewster29I think he'd rather see his money.Go towards a multi million dollar temple with a golden statue on top than to feed the poor.
@@aBrewster29 1. The “safe space” is repentance, not affirmation. Else there are hundreds of other universities to attend. 2. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s insane to expect a church to pay for the promotion of doctrines and practices it considers sinful.
@@aBrewster29 Putting any identifier above "child of God" is a problem. Flags and pins communicate something different than safety and love.
@@aBrewster291 is that really all it signifies? 2 the church already does that with tithing--among other things, and individuals can also designate additional donations to various efforts along those lines.
Listening to Jacob Hanson reaffirms my decision i made years ago to resign my membership from the LDS Church.
He keeps me from even visiting the chapel. If Lds version of Jesus sounds like him burned me up!
Perhaps it was good for both the Church and you that you resigned.
Glad you left. Too many annoying people like you haven't left. Thanks for doing that
We need to build our spiritual foundation not on sand and but on the rock of Christ. Other Members may say offensive ideas, but should not drive us from the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
@@markommen5967it doesn’t drive people from Christ, it drives people out of a “church” the word church means community, Christ is not a church. A church is not divinity. The good news of his gospel IS NOT A Church.
At 45:10 he says there are matters where you can say the brethren are wrong but then he contradicts himself where he says there are other matters where they are not wrong. The problem is who gets to decide what matters are they right on and what matters are they wrong on. It is entirely subjective. Some might disagree with the Church on same sex issues, some might disagree with the Church on tithing, some might even go so far as to disagree with the prophet on masks and vaccines. Where does one draw the line or where should one draw the line. This whole thing is a slippery slope. You either accept everything the prophets says as gospel or you don't, you are either a saint or an apostate. Hansen plays a slippery game, he is a cafeteria Mormon just like the rest of them. He doesn't want to change the Church he just wants to ignore the Church when it is convenient.
Would Peggy Fletcher be saying anything if BYU released a bunch of white supremacists? Uhhh... I'm 100% certain she _WOULD_ have something to say about that Jacob.
yeah that's the point. I think his point went over your head.
@jacobmayberry1126 I still stand by my previous. Yes. Peggy Fletcher would be "complaining" (Jacob's word) about BYU, being surprised by an announcement of having had white supremacists (which was a church doctrine, enforced from highest leadership, same as lgbtq is enforced today), at its premiere Seminary. The question of course would be, why did it take till 2025 for a group like that to be identified and fired? It would _ABSOLUTELY_ be condemnable! Why did it hire them in the first place?
By the way, BYU's very name exudes this white supremacy doctrine still today! If the church wants to distance from that false white supremacy doctrine, they need to change it to Spencer W Kimball Seminary.
FWIW, I actually have a directly relevant family anecdote with this Jacob analogy. My aunt left BYU, and Utah, married a black man a few years later, will never return to the church, and has never come anywhere near the perimeter of the state since. All because of the Church's white supremacist doctrine being taught and enforced, in the 60's, at BYU. My aunt was a better prophet than all those that came between Joseph and S.W. Kimball. She saw perfectly around that corner when they couldn't. She didn't blindly put her trust in the leadership. She looked the "confusion" in the eyes and knew better than they did.
Let me expand Jacob's own "complaining" to its fullest extent. What about the geology professors who aren't teaching the world is less than 7k years, per D&C 77:6? Does Jacob care that the BYU geology dept isn't teaching canonized doctrine? Does he only care that lgbtq are properly trampled and trodden in the Humanities dept, in what he perceives as doctrine? How does Jacob define doctrine? Oaks says it's only doctrine if all 15 have taught it. Have all 15 taught that lgbtq have no place in the Church or its academic discussions? It might surprise you, but I actually would argue they all have taught that doctrine, if only by their silence, in the face of one or two who have said it's so. I think it's despicable to think Christ would want his one true church to act out against the downtrodden and treat them without compassion and full inclusion. This is what Jacob does. He is not a believer in Christ and his teachings. Jacob believes in worshipping men. It's a church admitted fact that past prophets have taught wrong doctrine. They claim they're only speaking as men when they do. Yet Jacob and his ilk will unquestioningly worship their prophetic names as they walk off a cliff for them, just to avoid the "confusion". Such good enlisted soldiers.
Do you put lgbt people in the same category of white supremacists and nazis?
@@jacobmayberry1126 I think the point that _Brigham_ _Young_ University, who's very name embodies the idea of whites get their church privileges first, firing a group of professors actively holding these beliefs, in 2025, is a bad analogy at best, but going over your own head at worst. It would be a shocking enough story that Peggy would absolutely be writing about it "negatively" and rightfully so.
38:50 "if you were honest from the start you probably wouldn't have been hired at BYU anyways" People who once beleived often times change their beliefs later in life. It is very normal.
What about faculty who are true believers but their spouse stops going to church, or their child becomes an LGBTQ activist? Should believers be fired because someone close to them decides they no longer want to go to church, or even become public critics of the church? It's one thing to insist that employees believe and fully support the church and it's doctrines. But where is the line when it comes to people who are close to them? Is it necessary to get a divorce or disown your kids if they stop believing or criticize the church?
No and no.
No
@@kristinrichmond8185let me remind you that not that long ago children of gay parents couldn’t get baptized until they left home and disowned their parents.
Why are you even asking this? Of course not! Reign in your paranoia.
@@daveduncan2748 well they were saying that the spouse should be in the interview, what if the spouse doesn’t believe the bishop has any authority over them and don’t want to attend? That’s a valid concern, in fact not that long ago children of lgbt parents had to disowned their parents lifestyle in order to get baptized at 18. Did you forget that?
Jacob shows his true colors at 55:20. If the leadership were to come out with a position that disagrees with his dogma, he would become an activist against them. He can try and hide behind the church and it's leadership, but at the end of the day, he is right and everyone who disagrees with him is apostate. 40 years ago he would have been arguing for the biblical literacy of the priesthood ban and doubling down on the brethren's position. and now he says it is clearly wrong and has no biblical justification
As a Catholic (God had us give the world the Bible), I would hasten to emphasize “biblical justification” while never required for a Dogma - is - on its own terms - what philosophically and epistemologically sound (again- See Catholic Church) people would describe as a “self-defeater” (were it not it would be circular, and the premise is wholly circular) - but - if we were to grant it for the sake of silliness - in the absence of the Magisterium that gets us nowhere. It’s like saying “my body my choice” when the debate is about the preborn human child’s body and whether or not it should be legal to slaughter that child in cold blood. That said - yes - Jacob is necessarily wrong because Jesus was not and never could. Habemus PAPAM!
Also - Jacob is totally right that BYU should be free to fire whoever it wants. Apparently unbeknownst to him, Catholic higher edu (the inventor thereof and largest provider 1200 centuries running) is today riddled with brain-rot marxists but OF COURSE WE HAVE NEVER AND WOULD NEVER - and - key key key (pun intended) would NEVER NEED to keep a lid on free and adversarial inquiry. As I often say: poke around on google for a month and try to debunk the Virgin of Guadalupe. PLEASE. Go for it. See what the atheists and former atheists say. And then reply if you’d like me to help connect with a parish and get you into RCIA - where you’ll have 6-18 months to study and discern - those who have conquered and reconquered and are reconquering the world with the Godman’s Writ don’t need baseball baptisms nor new narratives. The Glowing Bride and Beaming Mother of Hod reflect their Beloved Groom. Come as you are to change!
Yup. He justifies current criticism against the church via conspiracy theories about "middle management" hijacking it but at the end of the day he is just fighting tooth and nail to preserve a version of the church that the own institution rejects and doesn't share his vision for.
If the brethren came out and said that they support transgenderism and are reinstating polygamy and will be sealing gay couples in the temple, will you sustain that or will you be standing with Jacob? I know that will never happen and recognize the Lord will not allow that to happen but what Jacob is saying is correct.
What you call "his dogma," I would call his testimony of the doctrine of Christ as it relates to gender and such. I would say that, in essence, he simply maintains that the concepts set forth in the family proclamation are of Christ and are immutable, even if (in the hypothetical) a future First Presidency should stray from them. His position doesn't really bother me, even if I would rather wait to cross such a bridge until after arriving at it.
That said, I consider gender transition (especially as foisted on impressionable minors) in a completely different category from "same-sex marriage." Once upon a time, I was 100% dead set against it. However, at my office building I happened to have a gay subtenant in those days. He had to flat-out tell me he was gay because otherwise I never would have guessed. Anyway, he made this point: "We are going to love each other and sleep with each other because that's just how we are; we are simply not attracted to women. Do you want us to operate as part of a committed, exclusive, long-term relationship, or would you prefer that we run around pursuing random hookups with dozens of partners as if there were no tomorrow?"
I had to acknowledge that, in terms of overall societal welfare, it might be better for the law to encourage marriage among gay people, if for no other reasons than as a means of discouraging the promiscuity that was characteristic of that community in the early 1980s. If the Church were to let men in a "legal and lawful" union enjoy activity in their ward programs, it would not destroy my testimony. After all, participants in heterosexual marriages that have not been "solemnized" in the temple are not barred from a rather full measure of activity.
This is not the same thing as advocating for the Church to recognize same-sex relationships as on a par with "celestial marriage," as the eschatological implications of such a shift would be significant.
I went through the Marriott School and never would’ve guessed that something as mundane as accounting could come into controversy with Church doctrine. Yet here we are after the SEC penalties over the Church’s financial reporting misconduct. People should be aware that not one accounting/finance professor has spoken up in defense of the Church’s actions. Not one.
That says a lot. No science is safe from the extremes of the pharisaical orthodoxy, limited paradigm being foisted upon students, faculty, and admins at BYU.
I did not see that the Church violated accounting rules. One disgruntled whistle blower and a left-wing SEC does not mean there was actual misconduct.
@ you’re entitled to your views, but what are your qualifications to make such an argument, and more importantly, what is the rationale behind your assertion? Clearly the SEC disagrees with you, given the Cease and Desist Order and fines.
@ronmonks6325 Are you high? There was absolutely a violation of SEC requirements. The Church tried to hide the extent of its assets and market operations. They admitted that they were dishonest and violated reporting requirements (not an accounting error, an intentional violation from the first presidency). It is not being defended by the accounting department, because it is not defensible. If it was defensible, they would have tried to defend and not paid the fine and worst of all not admitted that they intentionally violated SEC rules.
@ one more detail you should be informed of, the SEC matter didn’t come to light via disgruntled whistleblower-that is the IRS investigation. The SEC entered the picture upon discovery of shared IP addresses across the shell companies.
And I’ll point out again for you, if a defense can be mounted, why haven’t the BYU professors spoken up? Pres Holland has society called them to action, “to handle both trowel and musket.”
Are you defending the actions of the Church or the institution despite its actions? The scriptures warn very clearly not to call evil good and good evil.
@@ronmonks6325 Yes, SEC was very much church misconduct. The church and ensign peaks were both fined.
Shocking to hear that BYU staff couldn't find a job anywhere else. Really? If that's so, why did BYU hire them?
Same reason why students can’t transfer credits to other universities…what is Book of Mormon 101?
A number of factors could play into this, the primary one that comes to mind is job availability. In education institutions, there is often multiple qualified applicants, but only one candidate could be hired. If you're being purged from BYU, then you are part of a population that has one less potential employer and part of an increase in the number of potentially qualified candidates.
@@vl6779 Of course BYU credits can be transferred. Even Book of Mormon courses may qualify as an elective.
Good interview here. Jacob Hansen represented his position well, and Steven Pynakker did a good job challenging it. Well done, both of you!
I’m glad that Jacob was able to voice his views. You are able to clearly see that Jacob wants a small church. He is the kind of member that the church will be left with in the next 10 years. It will be a church full of Jacob Hansen look alikes. Good luck
Better to to be small and within the laws of God than big and not. Broad is the way that leads to damnation as the scriptures say.If the goal is numbers and not being faithful to Christ, then the Church has little value.
If it means the doctrine of the Family Proclamation creates a “small church”, then so be it. King Solomon imported people and doctrines that were contrary to the Lord and the result was a scattering of the tribes of Israel. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. Unfortunately, we see the woke cultism taking hold in parts of the church and supplanting core doctrine.
I was fine with some of the BYU teachers actively and publicly criticizing the black priesthood ban in the 1970’s. Taking the moral high ground takes courage.
Being black and being "trans" or homosexual is not even in the same realm of comparability. Nowhere close.
Different than LGBTQ. Priesthood ban had long established division and promise that it would eventually be removed. The questions were when, how, and the reasoning for the ban in the first place. LGBTQ, at least the way most of the world handles it, is directly in opposition to God’s law of marriage. It also has no scriptural precedence in support of it. Public criticism about a specific policy is different than criticism of the brethren as oracles of God or of a core doctrinal in and of itself.
Jacob would’ve been calling for them to be fired.
He said he would change the Church just like he rails against the people who want to see the Church change on these issues.
Yep. And he also said he'd accept the consequences, including excommunication. That's the difference. The progressives at BYU are having a meltdown and are claiming to be mistreated instead of nobly accepting the consequences of their activism.
Jacob so perfectly represents the absolute worst parts of LDS culture. Convinced of his own twisted logic, hostile to those who hold different views, and attempting to police the thoughts of others. His authoritarian instincts are breathtaking.
You're profoundly wrong
@ Gee, I never considered that. I hope you don’t contact my Stake President to get me disciplined…
The Church is an authoritarian institution, Blow. We have no Episcopal synod or Southern Baptist Convention. You either accept that our leaders receive revelation from God or you don't. And by the by, I'd love to hear you call out Jacob's twisted logic. We'd have something to discuss, at least.
lol you would call god authoritarian for having standards
He fully supports the leadership and doctrinal teachings of the church. What is wrong with that?
Jacob’s hypocrisy is absolutely *staggering* (yet also par for the course). He (and the luminaries he regularly appears with at Ward Radio) regularly and have repeatedly criticized the Church and the decision of leaders.
It’s also really crazy to hear him say such intense things about the LGBT community like it isn’t the law of the land. What he’s acting like is so “woke” are grown consenting adults exercising their constitutional rights. Or does he only believe in the parts of the constitution he wants? He demonstrates such a deficient understanding of why we even have a country in the first place, he should ask that Catholic high school for a refund.
He also constantly equates the Church with Christ. Christ (who I don’t even believe in but still believe this is a principle worth standing for) said that all men know we are His by how we treat others. Jacob has been an absolute jerk online (and has even admitted it). He’s less temple worthy-in my view according to these words of Christ-than any of the professors he’s giddy to see purged.
“I follow Christ”-no, Jacob, you follow people who have convinced you they speak for Christ. Christ himself said literally **nothing** on the topic.
His response to the race question was also such a dishonest dodge (just like you dodged our Book of Mormon debate you already accepted, Jacob). I also like how he just ignores facts that are inconvenient to his position (like professors not being rehired because of **their spouses** no longer being active).
👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 Thank you! Jacob comes across as smarmy and self righteous. Congratulations on being a perfect fit for the church! That must feel really nice for you Jacob 🙄
Royal Skousen from BYU in his CV and in an email to me said he felt the facsimiles should be dropped from the Book of Abraham and the contents be accepted as given by revelation. (the catalyst theory). The other scholar from BYU told me he accepted the multiple authorship of the Book of Isaiah. This would present problems for the Book of Mormon.
Why? Nothing in the Book of Mormon contradicts multiple authorship of Isaiah. Just as long as the chapters present in the Book of Mormon were available to Lehi, it doesn't matter how many people contributed. The problematic deutro chapters are not found in the Book of Mormon. If those chapters were inserted after Lehi left Jerusalem, that is not a problem.
@@brettmajeske3525 Have a look at Colby Townsend video and article Exilic and Post-Exilic Isaiah: An Interview with Colby Townsend
The problematic chapters ARE in the book of mormon as well as the long ending of Mark, which also should not be there.
@@MaryMartinez-mc9qu The same problem with Smith's IV where Isaiah 29 has extra verses which do not appear in the Great Isaiah Scroll and in Matthew in the resurrection story he has 2 angels sitting on the rock.
@MaryMartinez-mc9qu Why do you think that? Have you even looked at the Book of Mormon? None of the Book of Mormon chapters include any of the post exilic content. While some of the chapters are from afterwards, that only matters if Isaiah chapter order is chronological. Many non LDS experts think deutero Isaiah was an insert, not just added at the end, if so that is not a problem for the Book of Mormon.
What specific verses in the Book of Mormon do you find problematic?
Excellent back and forth, well done.
@MormonBookReviews great job calling Jacob out and making him aware of the insensitive use of “people who experience same sex attraction”. I noticed that he said something like out of respect for you and just for you he would rephrase his wording. Unfortunately, that indicates to me he will continue using such insensitive phrasing on his who channel and in other situations.
Language is tough. How would you refer to someone who identifies as gay or lesbian? The church leaders still have a connotation of same sex attraction being a temptation or experience of this life and not a characteristic that changes how an individual should behave.
There’s a difference between having a discussion and teaching from a “stance” position.
I am not a member of the LDS church anymore but since BYU is a private religious institution I do not understand why anyone that is not active LDS would want to teach there. And because it is a private religious University I believe it has the right to set whatever standards they want for the kids and the employees. Whenever any of my active LDS grandkids don't want to go to BYU I am happy. The honor code is ridiculous for young college age people and at least my grandkids realize that instead of going and trying to break all the rules they can. 😂 They are good kids but definitely not perfect. What kid really is. 😂 College is a time to decide who you really are without someone else pushing their personality onto you. God created us all differently with different talents and creativity. And I do believe heaven will be the same. 🤗 God is NOT a boring God. Just look at the diversity He put into His creation of this world and the people He put on it. ❤
"I do not understand why anyone that is not active LDS would want to teach there." Most professors start there as active LDS members, but as humans with the capacity to think critically and to change their positions when convinced some become nuanced members or even disagree with people like Jacob. Your sentiment in this line reminds me of how some students realize they are not heterosexual while attending BYU and then are asked by people online, "Why did you apply to BYU if you were gay?"
Part of the problem is that stepping into positions such as local Church leadership or teaching at BYU is where you see how the sausage gets made, and you become aware of instances where certain Church values are disregarded in favor of others-and not in a white lie, “does this dress make my butt look big” sort of way.
So 1) Church doctrine is actually more accommodating than the narrow paradigm being enforced, and 2) So-called activists should have an avenue to raise these concerns where they see Church values being tossed aside by the dominant powers.
@@DegaVertigo Most people change jobs when they disagree with the product and aim of their employer. No one is being forced to work there.
@@aBrewster29What is being enforced that isn't doctrine/policy?
well put
Thx for a great video of addressing the different sides of this debate.
The point is that the professors are scared because of the arbitrary imposition of the standards police.
Good! They should quickly and quietly leave. This is a private CHURCH school. The students will get plenty of opposing opinions after graduation.
Definitely not arbitrary
@ do you know exactly what his standards are for employment? And for the spouse of the employee that does not even work for one of the religious institutions?
Today’s doctrine will become tomorrow’s disavowed doctrine.
hmm, maybe just like how the Law of Moses was set aside by the gospel in the New Testament? Times, circumstances, and human understanding evolve to higher or refined ideas, in the context of revelation. You seem to suggest a stagnant status quo is the ideal.
@ When you’re taught that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, then nothing should change. Right should be right and wrong should be wrong.
There are so many “doctrines” that the LDS church has disavowed and now says they were wrong about. So how do we know that what is currently being taught won’t be disavowed in the future? We don’t, which proves that the “prophets” don’t communicate with God. They’re too swayed by current society.
19:36 show me a workplace where 50% of employees AREN'T looking for other employment or early retirement and I'll show you a workplace that ISN'T the norm
The Church has become a bit too pharisaical.
The moment BYU enacted and enforced its Honor Policy using the same tactics as the Stasi (the East German Secret Police) it became a micro-police state.
Ya think?
@@DegaVertigo When was that? I was at BYU for 8 years and my father in law was on the faculty for 20+ years, but neither he nor I ever experienced any of this "police state" thing. The Stasi regularly employed torture as an interrogation tool and shot people who tried to defect. I don't imagine that you were really accusing BYU of acting in that fashion, but if BYU did so, where is the report?
@ The main feature of the Stasi wasn’t merely torture, but to silence dissident speech. They could disappear people and that was a more effective tool to silence that speech than torture-which was used primarily as an interrogation method. The most ubiquitous method of silencing speech employed by the Stasi was their use of a network of informants. The average citizen would never know if their neighbor was an informant, and the mere suspicion that someone could be one could suppress dissent.
While there is a clear difference in the scope of the Stasi’s impact when compared to the BYU Honor Code Office, the parallels in their tactics are too great to gloss over, imo.
In the 1970s, BYU employed people to out homosexuals to the BYU Honor Cord Office. They would then be blackmailed into vomit/electroshock therapy under threat of immediate expulsion and denial of college transcripts-meaning the student would never be able to legitimately attend another college or university. Vomit/electroshock therapy for the conversion of sexuality was and is torture, even though at the time some professionals thought it was appropriate.
For those who knew a BYU student was gay and then no longer saw that student at school, there was a clear threat of disproportionate consequences for being outed. They had been expelled for not keeping their secret and any hope of a college degree had been denied them. It silenced what would have been viewed as, and still is treated by BYU as, dissent.
The average BYU student would not know the reason a given student stopped attending. The socially imposed shame of homosexuality would also contribute to limited social network of those who would know the truth.
Famously, a BYU Valedictorian had after securing his transcripts with his posted degree, came out in a public speech. His speech was treated as dissident speech against BYU, by Elder Holland.
So while neither you nor your father witnessed this, it still happened to other people. The fact you were both unaware at the time is a testament to the effectiveness of the suppressive tactics.
ua-cam.com/video/ZGV4aeSJyRM/v-deo.htmlsi=tpAwtd4E0vMnCrJu
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There was also a recorded reunion of some of the survivors of this program of torture that was once posted to YT, but I can’t seem to find it publicly listed anymore. They went into more detail about the lives of those who were targeted.
@@Comm.DavidPorter The main feature of the Stasi wasn’t merely torture, but to silence dissident speech. They could disappear people and that was a more effective tool to silence that speech than torture-which was used primarily as an interrogation method. The most ubiquitous method of silencing speech employed by the Stasi was their use of a network of informants. The average citizen would never know if their neighbor was an informant, and the mere suspicion that someone could be one could suppress dissent.
While there is a clear difference in the scope of the Stasi’s impact when compared to the BYU Honor Code Office, the parallels in their tactics are too great to gloss over, imo.
In the 1970s, BYU employed people to out homosexuals to the BYU Honor Cord Office. They would then be blackmailed into vomit/electroshock therapy under threat of immediate expulsion and denial of college transcripts-meaning the student would never be able to legitimately attend another college or university. Vomit/electroshock therapy for the conversion of sexuality was and is torture, even though at the time some professionals thought it was appropriate.
For those who knew a BYU student was gay and then no longer saw that student at school, there was a clear threat of disproportionate consequences for being outed. They had been expelled for not keeping their secret and any hope of a college degree had been denied them. It silenced what would have been viewed as, and still is treated by BYU as, dissent.
The average BYU student would not know the reason a given student stopped attending. The socially imposed shame of homosexuality would also contribute to limited social network of those who would know the truth.
Famously, a BYU Valedictorian had after securing his transcripts with his posted degree, came out in a public speech. His speech was treated as dissident speech against BYU, by Elder Holland.
So while neither you nor your father witnessed this, it still happened to other people. The fact you were both unaware at the time is a testament to the effectiveness of the suppressive tactics.
There was also a recorded reunion of some of the survivors of this program of torture that was once posted to YT, but I can’t seem to find it publicly listed anymore. They went into more detail about the lives of those who were targeted.
My issue is Jacob acts like the brethren are so clear with how they feel about the LGBTQ community and it is the main doctrine of the church like the Eucharist is to Catholics. These people are not against the core doctrine of the church, but against the church’s policies that have changed in the past 30 years. They aren’t against Jesus or the atonement. People had the same arguments 45 plus years ago about racism and women’s rights. We may find the disavow these teachings in the next 30 years.
Not going to happen, and Jacob has done a plethora of videos directly contrasting that doctrine with that of the church. Oil and water.
I would love to see you have Connor Boyack on with Jacob Hansen and have these two debate on polygamy and Brigham Young.
I think Jacob is spot on! It's a private school and they have the right to do this at a private school
Yes, that is true. But what they can't control are the consequences. They could lose all credibility in the academic world making degrees from BYU worthless. That would greatly affect their mission of enter to learn, go forth to serve.
@@ChrisRobison The only “consequences” a religious school should be concerned about are the ones coming from God. That seems to be the theme running throughout scripture.
Jacob you are mischaracterizing the professors as all ‘activists’. The point is that they are regular people scared to lose their jobs
It’s the tainted way!
The only reason to be scared of losing their job is if they are engaging in activism against Church doctrine. 😑
@@bemorebetter5343 church doctrine is an ever changing thing. Look up Byron Marchant.
@ what do you consider activism?
This comment is correct. It is bad for a university to create a culture of control and fear which is what is happening. This is bad for learning. This is bad for professors. This is bad for students. Jacob Hansen's claims that professors are running wild doesn't ring true to me. I just haven't seen evidence of it.
5:05 hahaha Jacob you’re so full of it you don’t even understand how notes Dane and byu are not alike
18:55 this I think is the heart of the issue, is that it’s not something that is meant to be against LGBTQ identifying persons. Rather, it’s against a narrative and a way of looking at same-sex attraction that a lot of people feel is based in Marxism and tribalism.
It could also be there are many lgbtq people who vote conservative and see that ignorance causes the fearful to paint these lifestyles with ugly nicknames.
Are you seriously saying ALL same sex attraction comes from…MARXISM???😳. This is very disturbing and tells the story why members of the LGBT community have such a difficult time with LDS culture…it COMPLETELY takes away their own identity and individuality and breaks it down to a political agenda. WOW, how do you not see this! But I know…you still LOVE them SO much! 🤢🤮
Jacob do you you think that it's OK that a person's job is at risk by a bishops or stake president's view of a person's religious views?..
Conservative professors across the country are scared to loose their job because 90% of professors are liberals. Welcome to the world we’ve been dealing with for along time
It’s a private religious school…
How many non-LDS schools are there again?
I'm a BYU graduate and a witness to plenty of shady shiz that happened with BYU administration and the power they held over employees regarding their employment.
Jacob Hansen is exactly the type of self-righteous prick who professes to be a good Christian, but cannot see just how hypocritical he is and the damage he does with his comments.
Great job by Steve to allow Jacob to spew a bunch of BS and then politely disagree with his ridiculous positions.
I hope Jacob lives long enough to see the Church change it's position on things he believes will never change and that he becomes excommunicated out as he claims he would be good with.
I think he has no idea just how difficult it would really be to face excommunication. His cavalier attitude at the 55:00 min. mark is so pathetic. Jacob is a zealot and a fool.
Jacob and his public persona digust me. His positions and the people who agree with him continue to reinforce my decision to drop out of activity within the LDS church. I do believe there are plenty of good people who are active LDS and they form a tight community that feels wonderful to participate if you can conform to it. If you do not conform to LDS culture and dogma, there is no place for you. Getting out of the Church isn't an easy thing to do and the same thing can be said for BYU. Professionals required to leave BYU isn't as simple as Jacob claims it to be based on the "honesty" of their beliefs or circumstances. It's not so black and white. Jacob struggles with nuance and that will ultimately bite him in the butt someday.
I agree with Steve that BYU will lose good people and that it will weaken the university in the long run. Great podcast. It's nice to see you give so much time to Jacob to allow him so many opportunities to display his self righteous perspectives. God only knows what the truth is with respect to same sex attraction and why it exists. Jacob only wishes he could know God's purpose and design on the matter.
Integrity conversation at 37 minutes:
"If they would have been honest from the start, they probably never would have been hired"... Because perspectives never change... And the church has never changed their perspectives... Or dare I say doctrines."
The church should not be putting people in the position where their livelihood depends on their integrity about social issues when the church hasn't even figured out their actual stance. If the church is going to leave it up to the bishops to decide someone's ability to provide for themselves and their family, there should be much more clear guidance about what is disqualifying.
Jacob talks like the church is clear with their stances and like they've been consistent. The fact of the matter is, this couldn't be farther from the Truth. The current actions reflect so perfectly What has happened multiple times in the past- equal rights, black rights, those trying to get the church to be more honest about their history. Quite ironic and hypocritical that a church with the history and the ongoing issues with integrity requires such strict integrity that would cost someone their livelihood when the two are at odds and they are trying to be authentic with themselves and others.
It will be interesting to see if Jacob is able to hold himself to such high standards of integrity when the church inevitably continues to change their social stances, considering the statements he has made in the past that he would not be able to stay in the church if they change certain teachings.😮
I am so glad this guy is not my child’s seminary teacher.
I don't agree with Jacob. I think having academic diversity is good for an organization (especially a religious one) and having folks fear for their jobs just for supporting their gay family members and friends is a tragedy. It's unamerican. And it feeds into this idea of us vs them which is slowly killing our country. Best person should get the job at BYU and this new policy will get us trash compared to where we were. Worst of all Utah will pass us in ranking and I simply can't abide that. Go Cougs! But ffs fire Gilbert and any other culture warriors and lets get back to focusing on giving our kids the best education the church can provide without needing to grasp on to our dogmatic pearls.
BYU is already one of the most politically diverse universities in the country in its faculty and student body.
So, if I understand, Jacob isn’t opposed to activist professors at byu so long as their activism promotes the lds church position, even if that position runs contrary to the consensus in their respective fields. Of course, these conversations, and even the tribune article, seem to remain in the theoretical realm. Steven is the only one I’ve heard so far who is referring to actual people.
It's all in how these ideas are presented. Everything can still be taught, with the caveat of being done through faithful LDS perspective.
@ sure, to a point. LDS leadership, though, from the pulpit, teach that gender is ordained of God. Anthropologists would be hard pressed to support such a stance since their field distinguishes between sex, which is biological, and gender, which is culturally determined/expected behavior. Anthropological work that doesn’t make this distinction would not be taken seriously, and would be seen as archaic in that field. But teaching, as a good anthropologist would, that gender is socially determined, would put an anthropologist in direct conflict with teachings of church authorities. Now, it seems to me that church authorities use gender and sex interchangeably, probably because they don’t work or study in a field that considers and distinguishes these. At any rate, we’re talking hypotheticals. This seems to mostly be a first step on a slippery slope discussion. Unless I’m mistaken, the article and reactions to it haven’t cited a specific instance. Historically, though, firebrands have enforced and tried to enforce similar policies at byu. Wilkinson is probably the best known. It will depend on how it is implemented. In principle, though, I think it’s at least reactionary and betrays something of the cross purposes in LDS culture, the desire to be accepted by and apart from wider society.
The context that you miss, Steven, And why we shouldn't have total free expression of all ideas at BYU, is that BYU is funded with tithing dollars. Firing someone for BYU for teaching something that goes against the core doctrines of the church doesn't silence that person, it just stops the church from subsidizing that person's teachings with our tithing dollars.
People are always free to express all of their ideas using their own resources. But when the teaching of your ideas is paid for by the sacrifice of a large group of people, you have to do so in line with the beliefs and interests of those people.
BYU is a private institution, not a public one. No one is required to work at BYU. But if you do want to have your salary paid by BYU, you have to stay within certain bounds of things that align with the membership and leadership of the church.
Those hating on Jacob need to relax, remove the disdain from your heart, and forgive. Don’t harbor that ill will
40:48 the issue is that progressives have now adopted Marxism as part of their principals, and Marxism includes activism. Liberal is not a problem for the Church. It is Marxism.
On Notre Dame, I suggest listening to Dr. E. Michael Jones. He was fired as a professor from
Notre Dame in the 70's for opposing abortion, because of that, he started a magazine to discover what happened to the culture of Catholic universities.
Also, Steve doesn't understand Mormonism. His worldview is one of
radical individualism, while Jacob, and faithful LDS worldview is about the collective well-being of the Saint's.
If you can show me how any of this is Marxist in any way, shape or form, I'll eat my hat. Unless Marxist just means "anything I'm scared of"
What is Marxism? Please define.
@ look up Karl Marx
@@zionmama150 " look up Karl Marx"
Translation: I don't know! I just throw it around as an insult at people who have a different perspective than me.
Or, assuming you are a bright and intelligent individual, you can sum up what Marxism is for me. I would be interested to see what you undertsand Marxism to be.
could they have the TBM ones teach the religious classes and let other teachers teach other classes?
Guy who is not a professor or whose job isn’t on the line is telling professors what they should be afraid of? Let’s say that slowly…
I love Jacob
The mormon god is an exalted LDS Polygamist ---- how does that fit in with BYU policy?
As a believing member, thinking I am in line with church authorized teaching, I disagree with a lot of Jacob’s comments here.
I love some of his theological content but very much dislike his political and social ideology tangents.
You must be a troll, because everything that Jacob has said has been in supported of the Church's position on marriage, gender, and the family. He clarified at the beginning of the video that he's not looking at this issue from a political framework.
BYU is allowed to operate as a Church-owned organization and protect itself from ideologies that would say for example that a man can become a woman. What is more ideological than that?!
The Church leaders and the leaders at BYU are doing the right thing here, and that is to protect our spaces and maintain what you could call our "Garden of Eden." If you don't like it or if you want to change it, get the heck out of here man!
Yeah, me too.
I love his political tangents, the reality is the left is antagonistic to church teachings. Harold B Lee even said in General Conference that a liberal member was one with a week testimony.
Steve might be the only sane person who actually likes Jacob Hansen - or at least his podcast persona
Or, Jacob may have thousands who like him and agree with him.
@@kenspence8843thousands and thousands. 😆
@ right, that’s why I said “only sane person”
@ 😆😆😆
@@savedbygracethrufaithbingo. The only sane person is exactly right.
Amen Jacob Hansen!
On the contrary. Jacob's hubris is about to explode through the top of his cap. My guess is that he'll eventually leave the man-made church in the name of ultraconservatism and so-called revelation beyond his so-called stewardship.
I can’t help but think back to win those people who read knew that the Bible had nothing to do with Black’s not having the priesthood. I’ve read letter letters that sound just like this conversation. Also, Jacob loves to say that other people are framing the issues wrongly whenever they frame them in ways that don’t make his argument look good.
You didn’t listen very carefully to Jacob’s explanation then, which was spot on.
@ then you have the same worldview as Jacob. That’s fine but he can’t get around the fact he’s acting like the racists acted when blacks were allowed into the Y or polygamy was banned in the church. Very similar conversations and he’s being hysterical and will one day be a fundamentalist.
@@Sayheybrother8I don’t disagree that how we discuss topics matter, but there is a big difference between current ideologies on lgbtq and the priesthood ban. There is a lot more foundational footing for views that the doctrinal of the family will never change in a direction towards same sex marriages than there was for the priesthood ban never being removed.
I believe Jacob should approach some of these topics with a more compassionate tone, but he also is coming from a view of trying to stay loyal to Gods revealed word and he has seen accounts of people leaving the church because of activist approaches against the church being taught to them by byu professors.
Jacob, why do you keep deleting my comments off your videos?
Hey me too! 👊
He's afraid of anyone who has their own thoughts.
@ whatever doesn’t fit his collective witness (taint) model
So its not ok for a homosexual couple to have a loving monogamous relationship but its ok for a man to marry multiple women. Bizarre
Jacob did an excellent job here.
Excellent
22:46 Yeah, I don’t think I would agree with his use of how the restoration occurred, as if to say that restriction goes against it. Even the word alone suggests bringing something back to how it’s supposed to be, not just having total freedom to make the church how you think it should be. In fact I think that argument actually goes against the exact point he was trying to make. Frankly, kinda a flop how he was trying to use our own history against us😂
Are comments being deleted?
Not that I'm aware of. Some times UA-cam does.
Ok. To start this position you need to be available from said time to said time. Ok. I’ll take it. 2 years later. I need you to change these requirements as they don’t work for me. Umm. Ok. You’re going to have to resign. We can’t do that for this position. Hmmm??
Do you have to be LDS to work at BYU? Or do you just have to agree with LDS values?
You need to promise to follow the guidelines and not teach anything contrary.
I had several non Latter-day Saint professors in my time at BYU. The expectation is that they don’t promote ideas contrary to the church in the classroom, but individually, they can believe whatever they’d like
@@мельник754thanks! I thought I heard someone say they had to have a temple recommend to work there … glad to hear that isn’t the case!
In addition to what's been stated, my understanding is that former members cannot work at BYU under any circumstance.
@johnprince5356 so to make sure I understand because I was getting confused as the video went on … if you are LDS, you have to have a temple recommend? But if you aren’t LDS, you can’t be an ex-member and you have to agree not to teach contrary to the church?
Good question Steven about Polygamy. You will not find any information on Jesus being a polygamist. Notice that Abraham and Jacob did not take more wives or combines after their names were changed. Abram did not have enough faith at the time that Sarai would give birth and he took her lead and followed the custom. Jacob was tricked. Just look at the fruits from those relationships. Wars and contentions
So Jacob is saying that all these heterosexual BYU students not following the law of chastity should be kicked out of the university and excommunicated???
Falling into sin is not the same as promoting it.
@@danjohnson8556 OK, try explaining that to Jesus.
@@danjohnson8556 Good luck explaining that to Jesus.
1:05:00 I do like Jacob, but I hope he learns to stop interrupting people.
He’s got to be in control of the conversation. It’s his MO. Thanks for recognizing that flaw in him
@ that’s just it, though, he loses control of the conversation because everybody tunes out when he interrupts somebody
@ 💯💯
Interesting insights. I think Steven concentrated a little too much on anecdotal evidence. And Jacob was a little too dismissive of the fears of the faculty. That being stated I think it is true that if I am going to be dishonest on my temple interview then I don’t have a good reason to feel like I should also be able to say whatever I want without fear of consequences. What large corporation allows their employees to say whatever they want on social media without repercussion? It’s no wonder why there are so many avatars online on all sides of the spectrum that don’t want their identities known
47:00 the issue wasn’t what they were doing. It’s that they were doing it without authorization. That’s why they got excommunicated. they weren’t willing to wait for the timing of the Lord.
Have you noticed the Lord's timing always seems to be delayed until after the activism? Polygamy banned (at least publicly) after the US denied Utah statehood. The temple and priesthood ban rescinded after all the negative press about the church's racist doctrine. Gospel topic essays were released after excommunicating the truthtellers. Church policies on child safety rules were changed after Sam Young was excommunicated for his activism. So, how can you know it's not the church reacting to bad press, vs the Lord just being a little too late to the game over and over and over?
Jacob's idea of teaching every subject from the LDS perspective is fine. However, such an institution would not be accredited and recognized as valid by other institutions. Accredited institutions must adhere to standards of instruction and curriculum. Purely religious instructional institutions do exist; they're called churches. But to be an institution of higher education, they must work with the standards that other institutions put forward as meaning someone has achieved a degree, that their coursework is equivalent in content and approach to other institutions, and, yes, allows for academic freedom. Moreover, there are subjects that simply do not matter to a Latter-Day Saint Perspective. How does one teach a musical instrument according to a LDS perspective? Ballet? To do so is shoehorning in content that truly doesn't belong and will undermine the academic disciplines.
The question is, which LDS perspective? The views supported by LDS scripture and authorities is so much wider than the narrow slice of the pie that zealots like Jacob and Greg go whole hog on. In doing so they discard other values of the Church and are their own twisted version of a cafeteria member.
There’s faculty teaching Ibram X. Kendi at BYU. Stop the cap.
I’m just here to coach against Hansen.
Lame
Lame
Lame
Mic drop
It's not the attraction, it's the action that's the problem.
Unless you’re a BYU professor who simply wishes to post a rainbow flag at your office to let students know you’re a safe person to talk to in an environment otherwise lacking in support.
That flag is now falsely interpreted universally as disdain for the Church’s current policy.
Well we know Jacob Hansen would be supporting racial doctrines of the LDS Church up until the last possible second in 1978 because his highest core value seems to be obedience to institutional human authority at all moral costs.
Actually, we don’t know that and apples and oranges aren’t the same thing.
I'm curious. Did the people in this comment section agree with BYU firing Randy Bott and why do they see that as different than the current situation? Both situations involved professors going against the church's current teachings correct?
Jacob-No, Randy Bott at the time did not go against the Church’s current teachings. The race and the priesthood essay wasn’t released until the end of the following year and is the first thing I’m aware of that changed the Church’s position. If you’re aware of something earlier that shows the position had changed before the race and priesthood essay released in December 2013, let me know-but otherwise, you’re wrong on the facts.
The funny thing about trying to equate Randy Bott’s situation with this is it helps make one of the points Peggy did. Folks like you and Jacob Hansen act like the Church’s doctrine is crystal clear, but it isn’t. You see, your question implies Randy had gone rogue for teaching abhorrent things that were in a first presidency statement and represented *as doctrine* things that had never been repudiated or rejected until that 2013 essay. I was taught the exact same things Prof. Bott taught in seminary about a decade before that.
That was the point, he embarrassed the Church for saying the quiet parts of the racist history out loud. And he wasn’t just fired, he was called on a mission-so he **still** spoke for and represented the Church in some capacity.
So do I think it was wrong they fired him? I don’t know about “wrong” but it was extremely unfair to the man who was simply teaching doctrine (as they represented it as such) the prophets and apostles had taught and had yet to disavow. Not defending his abhorrent beliefs at the time, but recognizing he didn’t come up with them himself. It was the Mormonism he was raised in that had never been disavowed.
@@KolbyReddish I'll take the correction on my facts of the timeline on that one, but Jacob's argument was if there was professor like Randy Bott NOW post gospel topics essay. So while your point against me is valid, your point against Jacob is not because such a professor would be going against current church teachings.
@@jacobmayberry1126 my point isn’t valid against Jacob’s completely imagined and invented factual scenario that doesn’t exist? Why would I need to rebut Jacob’s imagination?
@@KolbyReddish It's a thought experiment to gauge a person's consistency. You've never encountered an argument like that before?
I’ll speak to this one. I took a class from Professor Bott in 2001 and absolutely loved it. He is such a kind, energetic person.
He did offer that same “blacks and the car keys” example and did so with several African American students from the football team sitting across the front row of the lecture hall. It was incredibly uncomfortable, and we didn’t even know much of anything about the ban back then.
So, yes, I lament the fact that the way the Church chose to change without changing allowed a good man like Randy Bott to persist in a false viewpoint for such a long time without internal correction. I absolutely disagree with his removal from teaching without the Church acknowledging its role in promoting such views early on and then allowing them to persist.
That said, I know there are views who oppose the purge and celebrated Bott’s removal.
Jacob, BYU doesn’t need people promoting a tug of war. BYU needs people who can approach the gospel with an open mind and a will to use and develop the kind of discernment Christ showed in dealing with the Pharisees. The gospel is much more expansive than the narrow views being foisted at BYU right now.
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i agree with Jacob 100 per cent
Steven, your trying to defend the ongoing change at BYU by the Church owned institution is a losing proposition. Your credibility is compromised by trying to tell church leadership / God what he can do with his school. You are better than that as truth is truth. Not some other interpretation is truth. Not cool at all. I usually like your stance but kicking against church teachings is unbecoming.
@@jimoray3 I have no desire to tell any Church how to conduct it's affairs. I was pushing back on Jacob to challenge him so people could better understand his position. I was recently a guest on a channel that is very critical of Jacob and I defended him and Jacob was appreciative of my effort.
@ , your posture seem to defend the opposite but I’ll take your word for it as I’ve always backed you except in this instance and possibly giving platform to Michelle Brady Stone without true rebuttal from alternative views like Brian Hales. I just don’t want you turning into a Mormon Stories 2
Steven, you sound like a child with some of these questions. I get that your lefty friends are nervous. They'll find new jobs. U of Utah is always hiring.